Ok... Let's Talk About Velma

[@fenrirsrage4609]

Honestly one of the reasons Velma doesn't vibe with me is just how strangely miserable and cynical it is. Almost a constant bombardment of negativity, Mindy Kaling's Velma is like the shining example of a toxic friend and makes me uncomfortable because she reminds me of some toxic friends I used to have.

[@lvo9197]

@Cannibal Teddy Yeah, but the story doesn t seem to know wether to frame it as sympathetic or toxic, comical or tragic, and it creates a really weird tone, where she is supposed to be a traumatised character who lost his mom, and is estranged from everyone, but is super judgemental and agressive, while so self aware it negates any possibility of a meaningful character arc. This show could have been great if it had toned a few jokes and gave Velma a cohessive arc, having to deal with her trauma, reconcile with her friend (and aknowledge that she didn´t jus ditch her) and learn to be less toxic, while solving the mistery.

[@madnessarcade7447]

The show doesn’t seem that bad The haters seem more like the cynical ones It seems like a social commentary on them

[@ellencoleman4604]

@@madnessarcade7447 Well there you have it. The show was made first. It assumed it would have haters before anyone even watched it and decided to provoke them. A self fulfilling prophecy.

[@JoaoPedro-so3to]

I actually liked it. Its more of a critique of the modern days than made for modern audiences. We are dealing with mindy from the office. And i love that type of humor

[@mandarinsandclementines2997]

@Cannibal Teddy even the most pessimistic peers of mine aren't as shitty as her damn

[@littlecookie366]

we can really relate to Norville's live chat giving dislikes whenever Velma shows up

[@littlecookie366]

altho im giving a 👍for the animation, it's so great

[@littlecookie366]

and intro music!!

[@netherportals]

Velma Pepe

[@somuchforthissleeve]

It was well written. PERIOD. Was it a piece of shit some parts ? YES. That HAD to be intentional or at least lends to the “shock” to get people talking. Aside from the gross shit I was amazed. The story as a whole was dope. I was like damn

[@danemr6808]

@@somuchforthissleeve i completely disagree. Dialogue was awful, many plot points made no sense, so much of the episode was terrible filler, pacing was bad. I genuinely do not know how you can call it good.

[@davidstruck8109]

My impression? They had 'Untitled Mindy Kaling Project ' on the books, the original concept got scrapped for some reason, they decided to use Scooby Doo because they own the rights free and clear, and some pack of writers had six weeks to force a bunch of bad standup bits into a 'edgy' reboot of the IP.

[@procrastination_productions]

Sounds like a Bojack horseman B-plot

[@solarvoid777]

I thought that had been confirmed actually? Maybe I misunderstood something.

[@edfreak9001]

@@solarvoid777 if it's been confirmed i've not heard of it but i see this take just about everywhere to the point it's basically the leading theory.

[@ihatepower4580]

The animation is way too polished for it to be half assed

[@WobblesandBean]

Except it's not her project. She didn't create the show, or write any episodes, nor direct. She's a voice, and one of four executive producers.

[@derpoltergeist8265]

I really liked the concept with the supposed murder victims becoming talking brains in jars. Such a cool and fun idea. Too bad it was wasted on this show.

[@faishiro5009]

I honestly think it is a way to leave a backdoor to bring in a talking dog if the studio allows them to use him.

[@fin.being_alone8244]

@@faishiro5009 That was the main way I was thinking they could incorporate the dog later. Or have Fred adopt a dog as he seems to be going on a bit of a solo journey by the end of the series. They could then have the dog get its brain replaced and then be able to talk, though that is incredibly morbid and doesn't explain the near demonic abilities of the original Scooby Doo.

[@pheunithpsychic-watertype9881]

You've really messed up when Tammy and the T rex did it better

[@octaviablackthorn9]

Genuinely though Gigi’s brain would be implanted into a Great Dane’s body and that’s how Scooby came to be. But maybe that’s too smart of an idea for the creators of this show

[@kingbaco1233]

@@octaviablackthorn9 so shaggy and scooby could get dirty with it????

[@asianjesus9813]

I think the bigger issue with Velma's portrayal of panic attacks is how they "cure" it

[@elliottdowis9934]

I personally feel like adults should already know not to hit or kiss people when they're flipping out. if this was a show for children or teenagers, I'd care a lot more.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

They aren’y really portrayed as genuine medical panic attacks she is literally hallucinating a ghost. People should not take medical advice from a cartoon lol

[@pierrelindgren5727]

See it as a manipulative coping mechanism rather than a panic attack and it makes more sense.

[@brainthebrian3690]

Yeeea that's what's so wrong with this clumsy mess of a show, how unrealistically they portray panic attacks... Did anybody question how fred got shot in both of his legs the instant the cops showed up and most likely should have bleed out by the time they actually arrested him? Or how Velma and the others didn't die when they fell down that crevice in the cave with a rock about the same size landing on top of them? Like wholly sh!t, the times we're living in are so busted.

[@juandiegotorres9632]

I'm not defending this show but if you want an actual good representation of a panic attack just watch the Puss Perrito Therapy dog scene from Puss in Boots 2.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

The sexualization of minors and making light of sexual harassment/assault is what really makes this show irredeemable. It has also resurface that Mindy Kaling openly admitted in an interview that she sexually harassed Lee Pace on the set of her show and blackmailed her workers to keep silent. She's a person I will no longer support!

[@tractordawg]

Velma herself was my only main complaint. She is just so miserable all the time, and she treats everyone like shit. Everyone else slowly grows but Velma just stays miserable. Really feels like the time when "family guy" was just bullying meg but the roles of flipped. Honestly the show is just a reminder not everyone with a writing degree should write.

[@AnimeProfilePicture]

I'm pretty sure the writers were gonna try 1 of two things with her character. 1. Bring up some ultra trauma inducing thing that explains her assholiness or 2. One of the characters calls out how everyone around her grows and changes and she stays a miserable fuck

[@tractordawg]

@@AnimeProfilePicture I hope the second, someone close to her needs to welcome her to reality.

[@madnessarcade7447]

Kind of like the haters they are parodying

[@tractordawg]

@@madnessarcade7447 so ruining her character to parody haters is a good thing. The idea that you slowly become the very thing you wish to destroy is so fitting. Fighting society's most miserable people with an even more miserable person. Lol

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

@@madnessarcade7447 Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite their face. In the end of the day, all that there is is one noseless dude and one slightly disturbed dude...

[@GigsofRam]

It sounds like Velma needs a Greg Daniels. Greg Daniels is the co creator of King of the Hill. Before he came along, Mike Judge just had kind of a story about people in Texas with characters based on people from his childhood. Greg Daniels helped make the story of KOTH work and keep the show focused. Every good show has a person like that and from your review, Velma needs a person like that. Like, it has decent ideas and the bones aren't bad, but some of the storylines and most of humor needed to be kept grounded and focused. It sounds like the show is obsessed with being trendy -- for example, all the meta jokes -- instead of being about the characters and world.

[@thispincer8404]

☝️This is the definition of constructive criticism👍

[@elliottdowis9934]

I hate every show that does nothing but reference current events, memes and trends, like the new Powerpuff Girls and things along those lines. As soon as it isn't the day it aired, it isn't relevant anymore and they don't put any effort into the characters or plot aside from that stuff. So the show is just weird and annoying if you watch it any other time.

[@alexhayden7599]

That is a really smart point!

[@vladimirplantin6307]

What does KOTH stand for?

[@elliottdowis9934]

@@vladimirplantin6307 king of the hill, the show

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I've actually heard that people's hatred for this show is actually bringing people closer together. because apparently people are hating the show more than they are hating on each other.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

lol this is kinda funny ngl

[@TheCommenterDragon]

@@Johnny2Cellos I can see the funny side as well, but i am dead serious when i say that i know i heard that from somewhere.

[@Dead_Again1313]

Makes sense.

[@blackkuririn8420]

I'm very surprised I've never heard anybody talk about how beautiful the show's visuals are. I really dig its art style.

[@Whazzupie]

Unfortunate such talent goes into such a flamboyantly obnoxious and toxic work :T

[@littlecookie366]

ikr!

[@ArcAngle1117]

I don't plan on watching it but it looks way more visually appealing than some crap like Big Mouth.

[@blackkuririn8420]

@@Whazzupie At least animation team gets the chance to show off their talent. And who knows maybe they'll get chance to work on a better project

[@blackkuririn8420]

@@ArcAngle1117 same here

[@NerdMiGerd]

I think the most frustrating aspect about Velma is it shows that an adult Scooby-Doo *could* work and honestly be really great, but is bogged down soooooo much by its groan-inducing writing.

[@fae206]

I honestly feel that Abed is a great character because it mirrors how he is able to see TV tropes and live life tha way with the idea that because he might be "somewhere on the spectrum" he doesn't work out in the real world. I personally don't feel that you can try to do both successfully, you always have to have the characters lean to either being grounded or being "meta:

[@buttscarlton1490]

The elevator pitch for this show must have been "I have an idea for a show that people will be talking about on social media for 2 months nonstop" And the executive was like; "done, you're greenlit"

[@Bunniclown]

My issue with Velma is that the characters that we grew up with are barely visible in this new adaptation. I like the arks and I like the designs but with Fred for example, the only personality trait he has is that he’s rich. Why not still have him a little dumb but still have his unlearned respect for other people. With Velma, she’s sarcastic yes, but almost completely different from her past selves.

[@SleepyDullahan]

I don't necessarily mind that Fred's Mom is the killer but I do wish they put more thought into that being a reachable conclusion throughout the show rather than all in the last few episodes. The only clue that was really given relatively early was that the General was adept at hypnotism but that came across more as just a quirky joke in amongst all the other quirky jokes.

[@Goose_BooseYT]

Finally, someone else to tell me what to think about a show I still haven't watched but have seen dozens of videos on.

[@mx9226]

I’ve only seen clips of this show. I like how the art looks and some backgrounds are really pretty. Everything else I wish I could forget.

[@littlecookie366]

same, I also really like the art style!

[@MTTT19]

I think there was potential for this show but I found it hard to relate let alone like the characters. If you can’t route or care about the main characters then there lies a big problem. I also found a lot of the jokes to be very condescending and eye rolling. One other thing I think most people have been agreeing on is that Velma is trying to be Harley Quinn and it didn’t pay off too well. Speaking of which, I’d love to hear you talk about the Harley Quinn show. It’s fantastic!

[@notatallfunctional]

@cannibalteddy6846 That show perfected the art of writing about horrible people who hate each other, while still being very fun to watch. Velma writers need to take notes.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

@Cannibal Teddy I haven't watched a whole lot of that show, but the episodes I've seen it seems that they piss off the characters within the show, rather than piss me off in real life. I feel like that's an important distinction.

[@leephillips4402]

That's what people said about Birdgirl when it first came out, I think Harley Quinn is the thing all female led Adult Swim shows are trying to be now. That show actually made me realise how unfair I was being to Harley Quinn, makes me wonder what my take away from Velma would have been if I'd watched it before all the discourse started.

[@ShiroMatrix]

I think the hate for Velma is super inflated because it's coupled with the fact a lot of beloved shows are getting canceled, even after being green lit or nearly done such as Inside Job season 2 and Scoob 2. It's also because David Zaslav canceled things for being 'brand damaging' as the stated reason, yet allows Velma to exist which has been really brand damaging? It sends a lot of mixed messages for sure. Had Velma come out in the beginning era of streaming where everything was being greenlit without rhyme or reason, it definitely wouldn't be as talked about as it is now.

[@Interfaune]

As failed as it is on its own, I actually don't think Velma is brand damaging. My friends and I went directly into watching a bunch of better Scooby-Doo stuff from earlier years. We even gave Be cool, Scooby-Doo a shot after dismissing it for years because of the art style and were actually positively surprised by the genuinely funny writing. But if it wasn't for Velma, we would probably never have watched it.

[@afroauteur]

thank you so much for this nuanced take. i was waiting for your review and was not disappointed. while i was watching velma i watched daria for the first time. both have a cynicism but daria is actually well realized in its approach and calls daria herself out many times. the stupid characters are given depth and they’re actually likeable. i say all this to mean velma seems to think of itself as daria. i think velma (both show and character) would’ve benefited from a lot more empathy. i was actually really excited for velma when it was first announced and held out hope for the show. it has massive potential that got clouded by its own cynicism as well as clickbait internet stuff. and that sucks because adult animation is a genre that is continuously taken unseriously. i think it may get axed after season 2 but i hope it can redeem itself story wise and decide on what it wants to be and what it wants to say going forward. and i certainly hope WB/HBO max doesn’t take velma’s negative reception as a sign to continue to cut down on adult animation. thanks again johnny!!

[@leephillips4402]

Yeah, there have been many Daria wannabe's over the years and they have a tendency to become the most hated thing in the world for a time. I mean before this we all hated Twilight, nowadays people seem to see it as so bad it's good with a genuinely good cast who wer great in other things. I'd like to think the same will be true of Velma some day.

[@LaLloronaVT]

Did you ever watch the robot chicken sketch where the scooby gang goes to crystal lake or they have a girl with the dragon tattoo crossover? That’s the kind of mature scooby show I’d want, violence and gore but the scooby gang is the scooby gang doing their thing

[@Rosemont104]

The "#MeToo" line stuck out because the creator openly admitted on a talk show to threatening to fire a man if he told anyone she forced herself on him or something like that.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Yeah that made me roll my eyes.

[@brainthebrian3690]

Not everyone knows about that, they complained about it initially and for the most part because it undermined meetoo.

[@matti.8465]

It's so good to have a calm, nuanced take on Velma that isn't a guy screaming about wokeness and Mindy Kaling for twenty minutes. Not that people's complaints aren't valid, there's just a lot of hyperbole and regurgitated takes going around when it comes to this show

[@frankfort332]

But - but - but - surely the woke mob loves the race swap show with terrible writing? - a right wing KZbinr probably

[@matti.8465]

@@frankfort332 Oh totally, the very same show that has Velma say "I say it like it is, like every comedian before #MeToo". Truly, this was made for the woke crowd

[@WobblesandBean]

I get upset at those "reviews" cuz they all target Mindy Kaling exclusively, when she didn't even CREATE the show. She didn't write it, either. So why everyone blames her for the show being bad is beyond me.

[@marreco6347]

This was the only video I've seen on the subject and honestly, it will probably stay that way. The biggest red flag to me that the discourse was a waste of time was a bunch of people that never talked about animation before deciding to talk about it non stop.

[@matti.8465]

@@WobblesandBean It just boils down to people claiming Velma is a Mindy Kaling self-insert, which has no basis whatsoever besides race and the fact you dislike both.

[@deshawnedwards6412]

The FACT that HBO MAX already gave the OK for second season of this is painful. I hope Velma gets the same treatment as Inside Job and get cancelled during mid-production of it second season. There's NO reason that this show that it is so universally hated by EVERYONE from all sides should continue just to continue to be hated.

[@L0RDE1E]

I wish inside Job didint get canceled cause it was actually good but I’m not watching Velma not cause of the whole “oh this woke bullshit” mob just cause bad writing

[@dippin4dots]

But in-tern Inside Job should be returned

[@zoeb3573]

Inside Job was actually good though

[@madnessarcade7447]

Yes because The hate is a vocal minority and also Hate watching is stupid if you don’t want something to succeed then stop giving it attention And then don’t act surprised when it gets a new season or sequel 😂 Also you shouldn’t root for things to be canceled if you don’t like it don’t watch it and let the few or many people who do want it have it all to themselves and get as many seasons as they want

[@madnessarcade7447]

It’s only hated by a . Vocal minority

[@Dangineering]

If they could address the main issues you described It might actually be something worth watching.

[@zoltannagy3710]

well if you hope that they'll fix them for season two... don't get your hopes up

[@theclown2257]

I know acuret depictions of panic attacks weren't the point of the show but I still think it's super funny that puss in boots had more acuret depictions of what they look like and feel like

[@genericname2747]

That is because Puss in Boots 2 is perfect

[@thaimolpiyas]

ive gotta disagree with your opinion on the panic attack scene, even if you're not expecting something serious, something like that SHOULD be written well. puss in boots is a kid's movie thats obviously not very serious but even it has a great representation of a panic attack

[@ShanaReviews]

If I may offer an alternate perspective on the panic attack thing Johnny, I think what makes some people, myself included, not see the panic attacks in a good light in its portrayal is how it trivializes the attacks themselves and the methods used to get Velma out of them, they feel like they're trying to set up a joke with the punchline being someone is getting hurt (either Velma or Norville) case in point: 1st one: Velma has a panic attack in which the only way she is brought out of it is by Norville trying to lift her spirits up by saying he likes her and she laughs at him because she doesn't take him serious. 2nd is, Velma has her 2nd attack but this time she's brought out of it by Daphne slapping her then kissing her which leads to us seeing Norville seeing them and looking disheartened because the girl he likes is kissing someone that isn't him both these moments feel like they are jokes that are using the panic attack as a crutch instead of a springboard to tell their punchlines and part of that comes from the tone being out of synch. Velma's attacks are treated serious (by this shows standards) but the solutions to them (ie. Norville's pep-talk and Daphne slapping) are portayed as comical to force in levity to the scene and it just doesn't work the moments or rather the show NEEDED to pick a tone and portray the panic attacks as either something serious or actually try to use it to have a genuinely heartfelt moment to allow levity to settle in the scene properly OR treat the panic attacks as part of the comedy and drop the dark tone so that it doesn't create mood whiplash. but you can't have it both ways, you only end up with 2 outcomes. Mood whiplash or being seen as Tone deaf because you tried to force comedy into a serious moment. and that's not even taking into consideration how some folks who do suffer panic attacks might feel about these scenes, it's entirely possible that the outrage over them is warranted because the folks who do suffer them might see it as what i mentioned earlier, their suffering being trivialized and portrayed as "not that serious"

[@kolbybryant1]

As far as the plot goes, I actually have an opposite opinion, I felt that the teenage drama was actually entertaining while seeing the character growths and exploration, whereas the mystery plot felt annoying to me. Mostly just due to Velma forcing it on everyone around her and using other people as tools not friends. I'm hoping that the relationship building is a more core concept in the next season, especially if it's meant to be an origin series.

[@goob443]

I feel like my problem w Velma’s writing is my same problem w a lot of Mindy Kaling’s comedy/writing, i feel like it hates itself and it wants you to hate yourself too. It just feels more obvious in Velma bc it’s her self insert and it makes me sad bc if it wasn’t so hateful it probably wouldn’t be bad

[@jayrock2288]

That shower scene was suppose to be all teen girls? No one sees the problem with that?

[@glycell5008]

One thing that bothers me with Velma, is they hinged around this serial killer story. That violence has consequences. Then, at the same time they use over the top gore for comedy purposes. Really leaves me wondering is violence in this world scary and against the law, or funny with zero consequences. They are trying to do both while not acknowedging it and it just leaves me in this weird not caring vibe.

[@Stephanie-zb2ib]

while the panic attacks in the show does make some pretty interesting visual imagery, I do feel like the backlash is valid. Panic attacks and mental health in general are not treated well in shows and even though I'm sure no one is getting health advice from Velma of all places, i do feel like it adds to the misinformation and disrespect to the topic in general. If other producers see Velma and how well (no matter how it's talked about online) it's doing, the misuse of panic attacks could a thing they replicate in their shows. The same thing with the amnesia plot point; amnesia is a terrifying predicament to find you or loved on in and the misinformation of it can be harmful to those who live with it everyday

[@dezs.5202]

Honestly, I don’t even mind the show. I am hurt that they left out Scooby, though. I don’t care how childish they think a talking dog is, I demand justice.

[@fyrewatermelons]

Thank you Johnny for being one of the only KZbinrs to talk about Velma that *actually watched* the show past episode 2. I've seen so many people make 30 to 40 minute videos talking about Velma based on the first two episodes alone. On top of the reactionaries who reacted to each episode drop as it happened, and the Twitter users who spread misinformation about Gigi being "Scoobi", it's refreshing to see someone who was willing to do their due diligence and actually talk about this show truthfully (and under 30 minutes because LBH, that's all the time this show deserves).

[@ggpoh4925]

I can get behind many things. But I can only take so much "men bad men bad white man ughh white ew men yuck men bad so bad". And somehow they managed to make most of the white characters be better people than the supposed main character we should root for.

[@oreomega2545]

Eh I think people complaining about Velma's unrealistic and borderline offensive portrayal of panic attacks is very warranted and not dumb at all. That kind of shit is triggering to a lot of folks who legitimately struggle with that so I can see why it being made light of in popular media can be very upsetting

[@pyrolee17]

Here's my theory, Mystery Incorporated was struck by lightning one day and split in to two halves. One half was Be Cool which is a very well written show with hideous animation and designs, and the other half became Velma which has very good animation and designs but abysmal writing and characters

[@blacktoothlongwalker1037]

Velma is the first Scooby Doo where I liked Fred the most. Normally he's bland and straightforward, but in Velma he's... pathetic. And sad. And not a *complete* asshole like literally everyone else. It's enduring.

[@notatallfunctional]

For me it was Mystery Incorporated. Have you watched it?

[@david2869]

@@notatallfunctional But did you really like Fred the most? IMO Fred was a one-note in that series, bland and boring. Velma was my favorite in that series, that is her and Hot-Dog Water.

[@ashy_inking1476]

@@david2869 Oh my god I love Hotdog Water

[@comicbookreviewer4856]

Kinda feel with most scooby doo media did always Made Fred kinda a boxman to the group or always got the raw deal of things as that was the Point of Fred he always seemed to get demoted as the series went on and got the raw deal of things much to his Dismay

[@octaviablackthorn9]

Fred was definitely my favourite in Mystery Incorporated. That show took his himbo nature and boosted it 100%

[@Hatneas]

I personally really dislike when established characters have their race changed. It always comes off as a lazy way to get brownie points. I'm saying this as a Native American, if my race is just some filter that you can switch on to make X character more appealing to Y demographic you're not doing it for representation. I think characters should stay the race they were created as. If someone really wants to represent people of color I'd much rather they create new original characters.

[@AlecEburhard]

I feel that same on the topic of sexual orientation. DISCLAIMER, I’m straight, but when they retconned Alan Scott (the first Green Lantern) into being gay, I thought to myself “so instead of focusing more on his son, Obsidian, who is actually a gay character, or actually introducing that new GL who happened to be gay they promised, (this was back in the early 2000’s before the New 52, I forgot the characters name sadly) you just retcon Alan to be gay? I think the gay community deserves better than a hand-me-down” . It’s both lazy in the since that it’s low effort AND they clearly wanted to piggyback off of Alan’s established popularity and not take the long road of making a new gay character that could become popular over the years on his own with good writing and characterization. Plus the new DC writers apparently just act like Alan’s previous 2 wives just don’t exist, which is kinda disrespectful imo.

[@Moray2023]

I think you misunderstood. Very few people disliked the show going in due to the fact that they had been changed ethnicity. It's because Mindy self inserted herself into it. It's literally not Velma, Fred, Daphne or Shaggy. It's the exploiting the IP instead of progressing it.

[@mckenafountain6664]

I will admit, this is probably the best review I have watched on this show, its nice to see actual critique instead of completely bashing it. While the show is BAD, it does have some positives to it and I'm glad you went over those.

[@samvalencic]

my main thing to say about it is that the way to advocate fair treatment of minorities is NOT to generalize and attack people of the majority, which is what the show constantly did. You don't get racial equality by being racist towards white people. Things like this only make the fight for equality harder, because those with bigoted views will use this as justification for their idea that everyone advocating for equality is actually trying to destroy their majority groups.

[@wesmantooth32]

I'm surprised you liked the VA performances that much. I didn't finish the season, but that was one of my main critiques of the show. Very little of the dialogue felt natural, and I think that was a failing of the VAs as much as the writers.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

Well like I said, the dialogue had ISSUES, but I think the VAs gave very good performances with the scripts they were given. Plus I just like them in other projects too.

[@BreezyStreamy]

@@Johnny2Cellos Fred/Glenn would have improved with some improv, especially if he could have been a red herring and Dennis/Glenn sorta came out in Fred.

[@wesmantooth32]

@@Johnny2Cellos I like them in other stuff too, which was why I was surprised that their performances felt so off. I was looking up Kaling to see if she had ever done voice work before because it felt so off. I think it was probably more of a problem in direction than the actors, but hard to know for sure.

[@mrcuccob6386]

I agree honestly. Fred's voice acting in particular was just terrible. It feels like all the director said to him was: SHOUT EVERY SINGLE LINE WITH THE EXACT SAME OVER THE TOP TONE!! It was just awful in my opinion.

[@sideshowparker]

as for the panic attacks part; I think by the end they try to make it seem like Velma was not having panic attacks but was justifying something she doesn’t understand (having memories blocked by hypnosis) with something she does. If that’s the case I don’t think they trivialize panic attacks on purpose at least but it’s not very clear if that was the intention

[@89krx]

I watched the show with an open mind and my problem is that Velma is so unlikeable. She straight up SUCKS! Her feminism and boss babe quotes are so performative because of all the internalized misogyny and other biases she also exhibits. She is a very fake know-it-all with a lot of contradicting qualities but they failed to make the character complex. Also they failed miserably at making her relatable which is usually the whole point about making a show diverse. It was really disappointing... And to think they cancelled Tuca and Bertie 🙄

[@drewhalcro6082]

I've seen this a lot in adult animation. The focus is 100% on "jokes" and the plot and characters come 2nd serving only as a means to deliver the next joke. In a show like this, you need a solid plot and characters that grow over the events of the show. Family Guy, Simpsons and the likes only work as comedy because each episode is an isolated pocket and things they say and do can't harm the narrative because there isn't one. Not that my opinion counts for anything.

[@mellysandshrew]

I never had any intention of watching this show, but it is really nice to see some coverage for it that does try to highlight some of the sincerely better aspects of it, even if those aspects aren't enough to change my mind. I thought it was such a bummer that the animation, color language, and character designs were honestly pretty solid looking for a show that really seemed to lack an identity. There are clearly some really skilled people on staff, and I wish they'd had the chance to work on something where their efforts could be appreciated fully without all the negativity being thrown at it. It looks like there were some honestly pretty funny moments tucked away in the script, too! Truly a shame there, but thank you for taking an objective look at the series and making this video for it!

[@angelsartandgaming]

Hello, I'm a person who suffers panic attacks and oftentimes times at random. I have a different opinion about the panic attack scenes. While I don't always mind when panic attacks or even anxiety aren't portrayed in the most realistic light, this feels downright dangerous at worst and treated as a joke at best. Because of both times, she's either snapped out of it via not taking Norville seriously or a SLAP AND KISS WHICH IN REALITY COULD MAKE THE ATTACK WORSE!! It also doesn't help throughout the series, mental health is treated like a joke. And then there's the oddly good timing. Puss in Boots the Last Wish accidentally gave a gold standard on how to portray a panic attack and what actually to do to help someone perfectly. And when I saw that scene, I said to my friend who doesn't understand what I go through when I have attacks ”... This is... Exactly... What I go through.” And to people who say that others will know better that this isn't how panic attacks work, no... That's not always the case. The last time I had a massive attack in a call, I got yelled at and told to "stop acting crazy". Which made it worse. So to kind of say that the panic attack scenes are no big deal and it shouldn't be treated as a big deal is kinda spitting on those who do suffer through it and want to be heard.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

There is close to nothing in this series that is portrayed realistically or meant to be taken seriously. Why are we demanding a single aspect be taken with he utmost seriousness when that doesn’t match with the tone of the series in any way. There are a dozen examples of things in this show that are not portrayed realistically

[@angelsartandgaming]

@@Johnny2Cellos mainly because it's been treated like a joke far too many times of you ask me. There's nothing wrong with a comedy having serious moments and same with a serious show having comedic moments. Like the episode of Bojack Horseman, Stupid Piece of Sh*t where it portrayed anxiety with a level of levity but also had some comedic moments like when Bojack saying "Make breakfast. Cookies are not breakfast. Don't you dare eat that cookie... I can't believe you ate that cookie!" It's hilarious but also realistic and relatable. Truth be told. I'm not asking for much. I just felt it wasn't portrayed well. To me, and this is just me... And it's okay if you feel differently. The panic attacks in Velma are what Music is to autism; portrayed dangerously poorly.

[@TheBluePhantasm]

@@Johnny2Cellos I unsubscribed. I don’t understand why you feel like you need to defend this particular aspect of the show but it’s extremely disappointing. Ableism is a nightmarish experience at Hollywood has helped perpetuate for years and years to come. With how much you love Bojack horseman I thought you would understand why it’s important for people with mental disabilities of all kinds to see their issues portrayed well and artistically. Sad reality is most people don’t care about ableism until it affects them or someone they give a shit about. Realism doesn’t mean shit when it’s making light of a serious issue that many people need to deal with. They call it panic attack and show they’ve never met and/or spoken to someone who suffers from these things. Puss in Boots is teaching an entire generations of kids about this and normalizing it for them. Would have been nice if Vilma did that, but they clearly couldn’t have been bothered to do some Wikipedia research.

[@adeptdamage3669]

I disagree about the mystery it feels like it takes a backseat to the bad comedy. And Velma does not do any actual detective work, she just stumbles on to the clues.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

I agree with that! I just think the mystery itself was the most engaging thing about the show

[@adeptdamage3669]

@@Johnny2Cellos Personally if I were to develop an adult Scooby Doo show I would have lean heavily into the noir genre.

[@gremblorthesackgoblin7953]

It's like Mindy got high and watched Daria while writing for the show.

[@rushink]

"I'm not watching Puss in Boots for an accurate portrayal of a panic attack. Why would I? It's the sequel to a Shrek spinoff. That's stupid." But alas, it did have an accurate portrayal of a panic attack that felt sincere. Not every single piece of media needs one, though. Because it's not about what it IS, it's about what it's TRYING to be. Velma doesn't need an accurate portrayal of a panic attack because, even if the hallucinations were a central part of the show early on, they were really only a gimmick and an excuse to have surreal animation. The point of the show wasn't Velma overcoming those, it was her finding her mom. Any social commentary this *adult show* wanted to make was surface level and not deep at all. If they wanted you to think of something, they spelled it out to you and gave you the answer. I call that patronizing and thinking your audience is too stupid to figure something out, but anyway.

[@WASTEOIDx]

Johnny it's important to know that Mindy kaling (Velma) was accused during the height of the #metoo movement and has basically confessed to not only assaulting a male co star on a talk show but has also (on the same talk show) made a joke about threatening witnesses into silence out of fear of being fired. So that #metoo joke was exactly what everyone thought it was

[@Real_Bossclips]

As someone who hasnt seen it, I thought people were over-exaggerating about them being "panic attacks" and thought it wasnt a literal thing, but hearing you outright say it kinda covinces me. And, I gotta be real with you Johnny: when talking about a subject like panic attacks, you should probably treat it with as much sincerity as possible. If it lacks realism, you end up making people unfamiliar with the topic conditioned into treating them like how they see in the media they watch, even if it's just a dumb Scooby-Doo cartoon. Comedy or not, it's important to treat real issues as realistically as possible. Bojack does that all the time and it's a better show for it, and even helped me understand a lot more about the types of issues it tackled. If it was just meant to be a funny plot device, then why even use panic attacks at all? Just have it be a real ghost or something. You even bring up Abed from Community, who is a PERFECT example of taking what could've easily have been a one note character used for comedy excused by "being on the spectrum", and turning him into a layered, developed character who can actually help people understand more about people like him irl.

[@lolitkanovel6415]

I don't know, is "Velma" show actually says it's a "panic attack" or not? I mean, people can mistake the nature of this thing. I thought that I actually had panic attacks, but later I discovered it's just a form of anxiety, and real panic attack is a lot worse. Hope I'll never experience it in my life. It's just, when you don't know what actually happens with you, and start googling it, usually you find something similar and like "ahaaa, that's it!", but it can not be it at all. And my friends also had the wrong idea about it.

[@Stongna_Bologna]

I love the character designs but the reference humor really is a lot and it instantly dates the show.

[@notatallfunctional]

It’s all of the worst parts of mid 2000s millennial humor.

[@bleakshow7337]

In Scooby Doo Monsters Unleashed they show a flashback of them through an old photo when they are all hiding in their old club house from the monsters. If ‘Velma’ made their base around that entire less than a minute scene it still would have been 100x better than what we got

[@3ratsinatrenchcoat342]

One thing to understand is when something is so scarsly shown in media having inaccurate portrayals can do more harm than good .ie Daphne kissing Velma during a panic attack would most likely cause someone in rl to freak out worse. Sadly pepple cant tell fiction from real life half the gd time and I promise some weirdo will think its normal to kiss someone while theyre panicking 🧍🏾‍♂️ the animation is beautiful but I see that as a whole different entity. Animators are not the producers. Theyre simply there to draw their asses off. Producers make or brrak the story. In this case, break 🤣

[@raestiffler5859]

If you haven’t already, talk about Mystery Incorporated! It’s a wonderful show, I think they did a good job weaving a through line for a story and doing the regular “monster of the week” episodes and the characters are written pretty well (although Velma and Shaggy’s relationship was a bit rough to watch) but they kind leveled out within the first season

[@willichtenstein7071]

The animation was amazing and all the voice actors were awesome, except for Mindy. Mindy did not voice act, she was speed reading an audio book and on ep. 9 it was clear Mindy was annoyed having to come in and do her lines.

[@KyleP8325]

thanks for your reasonable and balanced opinion on the show. I quickly got sick of seeing everyone hate on it and have wanted a more fair review of the show. (I don't have HBOmax so I couldn't find out for myself) Seeing that you published a new video always makes me smile, thanks :)

[@WhatMyr]

1:05 it IS that big a deal when hex girls was scrapped, so many animated shows were ripped from reality but this was left.

[@bluebay1031]

I think the main reason the hate is so intense is because of the link to Scooby Doo. If this was its own original show, it would still be not great but the hate wouldn’t be near this level. From my perspective, it’s elevated due to it taking a title many of us are fond of and essentially twisting it into something almost unrecognizable, to the point where you wonder WHY this is even a Scooby Doo show (Money. Money is why). Also Velma being an annoying protagonist who doesn’t change.

[@beastcarleeto707]

High guardian spice was original but still got alot of negative attention so not really

[@matti.8465]

It still feels kinda weird because Scooby-Doo as a franchise is VERY active, there's more than a new project every year.

[@bluebay1031]

@@beastcarleeto707 Eh, yes really. HGS got intense hate for 2 reasons: It was bad across the board and the creators were treating it like a miracle of non-mainstream animation. Velma doesn’t apply to either of those. Fucking Mindy is elevating it, but everyone else is kinda just using the baseline PR terms that happen when a new show drops. Content wise, it’s absolute DOG WATER as a Scooby Doo property, but as a show it’s pretty mid. Not great, not terrible. Honestly the only fully objectively shitty part of it is Velma herself. Everything else is par for the course of what you’d find on half the well-received Adult Swim shows. It’s not a good series by any means, but other than the main character it’s pretty on par with the “low-hanging fruit toilet humor” half of adult animated shows. The hate is intense mainly due to it being mid on its own and a bad adaptation of a beloved IP, rather than just mid.

[@darksnakenerdmaster]

I hate that this made me think of all the references in Gex. None of those aged well and this aged out before it released

[@emmavrijburg6676]

im glad you did a more in depth review. the animation was incredible and fresh yet i didn't make it past episode two because if the rest lol

[@newthejsterjacob408]

what annoyed me the most with the show were both Mindy Kaling's voice work which was just so flat and the mystery solving being very accidental. Like barely any detective work happened on Velma's part

[@gillian9637]

okay I did hate Velma but there really is such a good story in there that is just barely breathing under such an unpleasant show. my theory is that Mindy was hired on to make a show for HBO max, was handed a sheet of paper with Hana Barbara properties and told to make a 2023 version of the show and said 'yeah I can make Scooby Doo cool'. it just feels kind of like a joyless cartoon that, instead of paying tribute to the original show, is just the writers grabbing me by the shoulders, violently shaking me, and screaming GET IT!?!?!?!? there's a good show in there I really think so and I honestly do hope season three lets it take center stage.

[@Iseeyouwatchingsml]

its not often I sit through an entire vid and dont check my phone, very entertaining. new subbbbb

[@LowellLucasJr.]

Most likely Velma's 2nd season was okayed long in advance like He-Man Revelation and DreamWorks Sheera. Sadly it might be the same writing unless the crew takes heart to what the medias saying.

[@MultitaskingGuy]

1:05 it did deserve it 2:49 art means nothing if the show sucks

[@LordSpongy]

I actually waited for your review before looking into this show at all

[@bothpartiesaretotaldogsht5750]

It's just so, SOOOOOOOOOO BORING. I feel like we went through 1000 settings with only an hour worth of story for the whole season....

[@Ben-hi3df]

Honestly I do think it somewhat deserves all the hate. It seems like the creators dispize every scooby doo show. It’s almost as if it was purposely made to be THIS bad and if we don’t give it this kind of backlash we might get more of these lazy and almost purposely bad shows like this

[@thecobdad5782]

My big issue with the characters, is that, i dont think we need a subversion of these characters for the first time we get an adult version of them, they could easily just expand on what we already had instead of tryna make them different for the sake of being different.

[@FuzzDistortionOverdrive]

Johnny, I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I'm sure they have. Your outro music/theme song is genuinely the best I've ever heard from any channel on KZbin. It's a fantastic beat. I can imagine The Pharcyde or Souls of Mischief using that as an instrumental

[@littlecookie366]

wait it's original? :O

[@Johnny2Cellos]

My old college roommate wrote it for me and I've been tryna get him to put it on spotify!

[@mbrambles24]

The voice actors were great, even Mindy, and I love the art. If this wasn't Scooby-Doo, I might like it more. The show is still horrible, but the humor is so out of pocket mean and offensive. It's actually a little funny.

[@pokepokepoke64]

This show made me want to watch mystery incorporated. I wish Fred was still sexually attracted to traps

[@toon4thought]

This show had all the right pieces to create a really fascinating and thrilling experience - a real standout in adult animation, even - and to its credit, a lot of the strong ideas do shine through, especially visually. But I get the impression the show just didn't spend enough time in the oven, as looking past the overbearing meta commentary, there's a distinct lack of polish in the script (especially in regard to the character writing) that consistently undermine what they clearly wanted to deliver. Just one more rewrite would've gone such a long way as I get the sense the writers were genuinely trying to iron out the rough parts over time.

[@madnessarcade7447]

they didn’t ruin anything this is an isolated universe it has no impact on the rest of the franchise the show is a satirical commentary of adult cartoons that’s it’s point

[@notapplicable6985]

@@madnessarcade7447 No, it's not a commentary on adult cartoons. There were just a few meta jokes

[@WhoMikeJones21]

Though I enjoyed my watch of Velma, I really like how you articulated the problems I had. I think it's mediocre now, but I hope that with the second (and maybe 3rd season) it could shape up to be something more unique.

[@beabea5985]

Finally an analysis without overt anger and rage. Very professional. That's why I love your videos.

[@TheStacyJamesShow]

I’ve always wanted an R rated scooby doo that pokes fun at the past versions in a loving way, and this, this just isn’t that. I think the uproar is because it represents everything wrong with modern Hollywood, had so much potential, and is a beloved and storied franchise, so the backlash makes sense to me.

[@v1de0gamr23]

The lazy writer's escape hatch: if you're too lazy/unimaginatve to create a competent or likeable character, but too sensitive/narcissistic to take criticism, just make the character literally anything except a white, straight, cisgender male. That way, if people complain about how unlikable or incompetent a character is, you get to dismiss their criticisms by calling them bigots and insisting that the "real" reason they don't like the character is because it's not a white, straight, cisgender male.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

yeah clearly that has worked with these characters… oh wait 🙄 yall just say stuff

[@v1de0gamr23]

@@Johnny2Cellos didn't say it worked, but the people who make those claims clearly expect it to.

[@KatsuFlake]

This is why I love your videos and trust your voice. You offer a balanced take on Velma and give credit where it's due and understand the show and its direction. Everyone else is just ripping this show apart but honestly I like Velma! It's enjoyable enough and I am interested to see where it's going. Thank you for this video I was excited to see you speaking on this 🥳

[@WitchDoctorMegra]

A really weird thing is the made up pop culture references. Like lesbians being good detectives because that’s a stereotype perpetuated by cop shows? Not saying that a show like that doesn’t exist, but she is making the joke as if it’s a reference that everyone would get thus making it funny. Or when Norville says in teen movies the guy ALWAYS sells something for the girl and blackmails her into dating him? Like dude what movies are you talking about? The rest of the series goes on like that with references and meta jokes that feel legit feel made up and I don’t know why

[@Funguydaman]

I hope that in the next 10 episodes they take some of the criticism they got for season 1 and make a great adult comedy. Plus im pretty sure there trying to set up a polycule im not sure about that decision it would depend on how they go about writing it. But over all I think as long as they improve velma can be an amazing show.

[@Krypto_Dogg]

It WAS made for hate watching and people who don’t care. It’s made in the way jocks make fun of nerds but they don’t realize they’re unintentionally funny for different reasons. I don’t think it’s made by the right people to really deliver it, but it makes its point.

[@KKarkatVantas]

Johnny, its not JUST a bad animation, you are ignoring A LOT of context behind the hate. First, the huge PURGE of great and amazing ongoing animation and new projects that had a lot of potential, while not only greenlighting this bullshit, but already confirming a second season of it. Second, the ridiculous state of the industry now where, you cant do a proper new show, you need to use a famous IP to generate hype and then destroy said IP to try and get your original idea out, which also destroys the original ideia and no one wins. And last the show itself seems like its shitting on people who watch cartoons, which not only adds insult to injury, but also permeates the dumb stigma of "adults shouldnt watch cartoons because they are for kids". If it was just bad it would be forgotten, the hate is for a reason.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

No I'm sorry but you're merging separate issues that actually have nothing to do with one another. This show has been in production for YEARS and the second season was already greenlit before season 1. There's no defense for the purging of other shows, fuck Zaslav, but that has literally nothing to do with Velma. Your context is devoid of reality. I do agree that the industry recycling old ideas non stop instead of investing in new IP fucking sucks. That's a larger issue.

[@madnessarcade7447]

Destroy is a bit of a stretch This is an isolated universe that has no impact on the rest of the franchise Different universe different rules

[@madnessarcade7447]

This is a TVMA show tho so that’s a contradiction

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@Johnny2Cellos we have dozens of new ips people just don’t care enough to search for them because they don’t get the same media attention I could probably name like ten original stuff that you likely haven’t heard of There’s more original content than reboots remakes and revivals a lot of it just flies under the radar people pay more attention to what’s trending than what’s actually coming out they don’t care enough to search for it

[@avefenixflames]

this maybe is a little late response but the problem is not that is just another "bad adult animation show", the problem is that is a "bad adult animated show" that makes fun of it audience and it's source material. If it was just another "original" bad adult animation show I bet it wouldn't have that much hate...

[@deathward4]

I avoided all discourse of this show and avoided really even reading about it because I didn't care. I trust you would be able to take a more nuanced approach to viewing it and be able to see what merits it had, if any. Glad you made a review.

[@jamesflowers1295]

You want to know the hilarious take? This show would have shot under the radar if they didn't skinsuit the Scooby gang

[@deshawnedwards6412]

J.2.C. Idea for an King of the Hill video, how about doing a video listening down characters (beside of the main one) you'd like to see make a return in the revival.

[@beesoda7095]

this video felt like a breath of fresh air, thanks for being so unbiased

[@SFH_Stuff]

You really don't care about race swapping or just trying to play it safe? Would it be okay with you if, for example, Matrix 5 goes into production, and Morpheus is suddenly played by a bald white guy?

[@d.phantomfan1216]

I kind of feel like the only reason people are paying so much attention, is because it's pretending to be a Scooby-Doo series. If you stop over kissing on the Scooby-Doo part the show just feels like bad parody of basic teen murder mysteries mixed with your standard that dog animation series without any of the charm or likability from either of them. But they needed a hug to give people more interested so they slap Scooby-Doo on there and now you have Velma. Also majority of the show feels like it just want to make people upset, and it worked people were pissed so they kept watching it and they're going to keep watching it so they can continue to be upset.

[@jasminecarter9594]

For me I didn't really care that they changed the races of characters it's not really an issue. My issue is how the characters are written in a way that they come across in a way that they hate their audience. like why SO MUCH negativity? Personally I don't like the show, sorta like Fred, and love the visuals. Props to the animation department cause they were hitting all the bulls eyes.

[@TheDkbohde]

My biggest issue is how many middle fingers this show gave to the original. This could’ve been an uplifting and entertaining show that played on our nostalgia but no. The art is well done, gotta admit. Bring back the gang working together and having fun. I don’t need any more negativity in my life. Keep your cynicism out of my cartoons lol

[@shagarumedic]

A true neutral take on this show if honestly refreshing

[@mickeyshy12]

In the future, I think it might be better if you cover up the PFP of the tweet you’re criticizing as that person has been harassed daily and she also deals with panic attacks. So, that critique seems to be making light of something she lives with. Not saying you can’t say it’s stupid but it seems in poor taste to include the tweet

[@Johnny2Cellos]

That was mybad my editor didn’t blur it and I didn’t catch it.

[@mickeyshy12]

@@Johnny2Cellos Thanks for being understanding

[@maggiebeanbell4211]

I’m so happy to see you cover this! I was excited by the idea of the show and when it all went downhill right before the show’s release, I was really bummed because like many, I feel really close to these characters. In my many conversations over the past few weeks, I’ve come to realize that many of the Scooby-Doo iterations barely have any character development for the team besides their one or two allotted traits and what device they play in the narrative - Fred being the leader, Daphne being the damsel in distress, Shaggy being the coward, and Velma brain/used to deliver the solution. I enjoyed the development of everyone except Velma into being actual people, and I wasn’t super fond of Fred but he was good for moving the plot along. I loved the twist with Daphne being obsessed with flirting with danger and I thought it was such a cool way to change her character up! And despite all the backlash against making Shaggy/Norville black, Sam Richardson truly was a fantastic pick to play him and I’m glad he got the role. Ultimately, will I ever watch it again? No. Have I spent way too much time trying to convince my friends and family that the backlash is an overreaction and that we’ve watched much much worse without batting an eye? Yes. I’m hopeful that they can get their shit together for season two and head in a different writing direction. Whoever suggested Greg Daniels might have hit the nail on the head, but I doubt we’ll ever see that team up.

[@frankrodriguez6998]

I'm not by far saying you should not be happy that this guy is covering the show but why be happy that he's making a video about this when he's calling out and complaining about other KZbinrs who won't stop talking about this show. The only thing he's doing by making a video about this show is perpetuating the cycle by being one of the KZbinrs that won't stop talking about this show.

[@maggiebeanbell4211]

@@frankrodriguez6998 I’m saying I value his opinion and keen eye. I have seen so many hateful reviews, with some justification but I don’t think it’s as terrible as it’s being reviewed. I knew this account would give an honest review.

[@DawgBarkz]

the animation being SO good was mildly infuriating 'cuz of the way almost all the main characters you're supposed to focus on are written, you wanna enjoy watching it... and then you listen to their wooords, and it huuurts so baaad hahaha

[@leephillips4402]

Watch it on mute.

[@sarahzahira7432]

@@leephillips4402 its worst cuz you can still hear it.

[@leephillips4402]

@@sarahzahira7432 you need a new remote.

[@brainthebrian3690]

Animation was as good as it show have been for a high profile production and actually some less so not counting the panic attack scenes, it wasn't some highlight of animation, ya'll need to A calm down and watch more media and B quit repeating each other.

[@tylerkaminsky5779]

This guys review was horrible. Saying Velma had a good story is laughable at best.

[@Johnny2Cellos]

lol thank you for the insightful comment

[@Skorch88]

You can apply the most about of frosting on this sh!t cake, and be extremely kind. In the end, it does deserve all the hate that it got. When 6% of the people likes it, you know it God awful.