OK. We've NEVER looked at ANYTHING like THIS before! Brace yourselves!

[@GrendelNin]

I like how when she goes into her growl your software just says "fuk it, I don't even know what's happening". LoL

[@danielatherton1631]

Harmonic order? What harmonic order?

[@FHB71]

When you listen to her singing Pisces live then you can hear the difference in pitch. She said in an interview that this is not her favorite song. She is really good live, but she seems also not afraid to let us hear some flaws when she does not hit the right tone, .... so she is forgiven the pitch correction 😀

[@pvwulfe6662]

Really? I read this was one of her favourite songs as she is a Pisces.

[@Milahaberry]

Thanks Fil! In fact, there is a lot in common between the rasp technique You use and Tatiana’s growl. You hear the note because all types of screams are based on the vocal folds. In this case, false folds, cartilages and the epiglottis (not always included) act as a filter, i.e. impart chaos to the sound waves that create the vocal folds (which simply cut the flow of exhaled air into equal parts at different speeds). And the sound will depend on the degree of compression of the larynx (twang), the position of the larynx, the degree of closure and compression of the vocal cords (chest sound, falsetto or even whistle) and the position of the jaw and tongue.

[@Milahaberry]

@@ShaggaSonOfDolf-k4q I tried my best.

[@gwendolyncarter5668]

This was hilariously interesting. Appreciate you exposing your own potential vulnerabilitues in this analysis lesson.

[@SketchyMagpie]

Echoing the requests for Perennial live at Wacken 2019, very interested to hear what you make of that performance!

[@Stevil3113]

Most metal screaming is much louder than most singing. Belting comes close but belted screams are still typically louder. You can make the scream noises quiet but it would sound quite weak and fake. The emotion is the important part of screaming. And now that it has become popularized you are finding a lot of metal vocalists sound more mechanical.

[@leobourbonnais6438]

that's where we are in society where everything has to be correct even when it's not. One small factor where we have to manufacture sights and sounds. Hope in future we will be able to recognize a bird signing.

[@rockdahaus]

For the double tracking of the guitar... if you see the orig. video, they did make a few takes, watch Tatiana her hands on the mic for example. Maybe that´s the way they did the production and took the best parts and double track the guitar.

[@azurenojito2251]

You might want to compare different types of noises, including industrial sounds, in order to explain this sonic phenomenon.

[@philproffitt8363]

I love hard rock but wasn't keen for more than momentary uses of the scream vocal. What I found with this session and then other Jinjer songs is the clever use of it...lyrical context, just like guitar tones change to express these things. A clever and talented band. I'm all about 'song over vibe' and progressive mixed-genre influences. Rock n Roll ain't dead yet...it's taken interesting twists and turns (Band-Maid being my absolute favourites now). 👍

[@otnima]

8:17 You can emulate double tracked guitars live with stuff like the TC Electronic Mimiq Doubler or the Quad Cortex. Kinda surprised that someone who's been "tuning their guitar for 30 years" and can therefor tell that it's "blatantly pitch corrected" didn't know this already 🤔.

[@wingsofpegasus]

I've never used anything like that, I've always just played with my one guitar and one voice and the sound is the sound they make. It probably makes my case stronger, as I pointed out something that didn't sound right and it turns out from your comment I'm probably correct that the guitar has been emulated or tracked in some way. Same for the vocals being pitch corrected, if you have a sensitive enough ear you don't need to know what model/make is being used, you can hear something is being used. Thanks though for accidentally validating my ear, and point! 🙂

[@marcwilliams9824]

Tell me where he says the guitar was pitch corrected. (dubious smiley back at you)

[@Tookoo_]

I'm pretty sure i've read that they recorded a backing track before they did the "live" version

[@kurtcpi5670]

If a studio session recording has pitch-corrected vocals, it's not a live recording. If one thing was changed in post, anything could have been changed, including added tracks.

[@YellowJello57]

Is it weird that you often use 440Hz to mean pitch corrected? In the case of the note A it's 440Hz but on any other note it will be a different number. It's just nomenclature I suppose but I'm not sure using 440Hz to mean 'hitting the line' is the most accurate way to describe the entire line of the vocal being pitch corrected.

[@a_deniz_temiz]

"Don't look too long into the abyss, or the abyss will look into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

[@jfilet]

she has a video on how to do it

[@mikestraker2180]

Time to check out Devin Townsend.

[@SketchyMagpie]

oh yes!

[@petttybettty]

I think a ton of vocal coaches stopped pointing out post editing because 99.5% of the comments will be people arguing with them and insulting them.

[@hiawatha.g]

thanks for the explanation. educational.

[@allendesalme197]

There are numbers of vocal coaches that can tell you exactly how to do this; its a false vocal cord scream. Watch The Fairy Voice Mother explain this video and Tatiana's vocal production.

[@demopem]

Yes, they use a backing track when playing on stage. Regarding the video, I think it's obvious that it's cut from multiple takes. They switch camera angles and mix wide shots with close-ups. You'd see 2-3 camera men around them if they didn't use multiple takes.

[@leesbrittany8928]

If you want to know how its done watch the reaction video for this by the "Fairy Voice Mother."

[@fanatic26]

People have mentioned pitch correction because the band themselves admit to the post production that has been done to this track...

[@FunkyMarcel]

is that the 'Fickle Finger Of Fate' holding your headphones ??

[@johnwinchester9654]

Her live versions of most of her songs song quite similar to produced ones

[@michaelvosbein7524]

Would love to hear you examine an old fashioned saloon singer like Sinatra to see how close he was with pitch and how he used natural vocal techniques absent any pitch correction at all.

[@goncalocarvalho4917]

you jumped a few seconds of music, strange, they also have a recording live of this, live in LA, she is very pitch correct

[@lorewilhelm9182]

Hi Fil. 😃

[@RedButtonTV1]

it s funny how from where i come from "pitch corection" is a swear word when translated... must be an omen

[@billwren5033]

Ok I am going to simplify this for Fil so the everyday non musician can understand. Fil does vocal analysis with educational commentary. other people do commentary. that's the difference between Fil and other people who listen to a performance and react. So the reason they don't say anything about anything effects or doubling or the technical terms of production that has been edited it is for entertainment purposes only. that's why when you see vocal coach reacts or someone reacting. they are not breaking down the production they are just reacting to a performance or video for entertainment only reasons. Fil actually sets up and breaks down the performance. Huge difference. I don't know how anyone who has a trained ear can not hear the pitch correction in this song. Nobody is this perfect I don't care who you are. can't wait till Fil finally tackles the newest of effect called AI. this is a whole knew beast and its the worst thing that could ever happen to music. Good Luck Fil. Great analysis by the way Fil. Spot on as always.

[@theonlylolking]

you look really good for being in your 40s.

[@brianhughes3176]

HI Phil, great analysis. Jinjer is a favorite of mine and I was lucky enough to see them play Pisces live in 2019. I loved it even without the atmospherics' but I was disappointed to hear Tatiana growl the the finish instead of hitting those beautiful clean high notes. To be fair, they were in the middle of a North American tour and they seemed a little low energy during the meet and greet but I didn't hold that against them. It was still a kick ass show. The band was tight and Tatiana was amazing.

[@AWCMCultMovies]

Yeah, this is definitely false vocal folds at work. If you had your actual vocal cords banging against each other like that for a long show, you'd be raw and unable to hit the singing parts.

[@tammydoolittle6054]

It's sad that everything (in music) is being pitch corrected, I hope there will come a time when people see how pitch correcting a person's voice is horrible, and do something about it. I don't know this artist, but it was a great and informative analysis! Thank you Fil!

[@Neofolis]

Acording to the band the only effect they use on Tatyana's voice is a slight delay. I think it's fair enough nowadays to call this a live performance, given that almost all live performances have some level of post editing on them. It may not be what would have been heard live, but it's as live as most other stuff that you will hear. Either way, there is plenty of footage of Jinjer live in concert and it doesn't sound anything like as polished as this, although a stage is never going toi sound exactly like a studio.

[@StratmanShane]

I think you may be a tad punctilious, here. Simply watch any of their innumerable live videos if you want to hear Tati without any of the standard studio tweaks, I PROMISE YOU, you WILL be impressed. I'd strongly recommend their live performance from Wacken of "Perennial" (the one where Tatiana is wearing the gold jumpsuit), "Who Is Gonna Be The One' or their full live show from Melbourne. No software used, none NEEDED. There's also her one-take performance of their reggae-metal masterpiece "Judgement And Punishment". Pretty much ALL of the famous KZbin vocal coaches have reacted to her and are all universally blown away by her. It's a fun rabbit hole, and as a musician, I'm sure you'll appreciate the astronomical level of musicianship and groove that is present with this band. Enjoy!

[@danalawrence4473]

Have you listened to Diana Ankudinova?

[@wingsofpegasus]

Not yet!

[@danalawrence4473]

@@wingsofpegasus I will look forward to it. Thank you for this excellent discussion of the production mechanics here in this video. Yes, Tatiana is using her false cords for this, which keeps her throat relaxed, allowing her to shift between growl and belt. It was clear there was some post production on the video. I caught at least one area where I thought there were switching performances. In concert, Tatiana tends to use only the growl in the later part of the song, the part where she does shift from growl to belt. I had not considered pitch correction. @The Fairy Voice Mother does a very good explanation of the vocal performance here. If ever, you might wish to look at Christian Vander, drummer for Magma, singing (on, perhaps, Zess), or if really going extreme, Diamanda Galas and her Plague Mass.

[@chadwalker999]

I've seen her alive and she sounds very similar to me. Not saying that she doesn't clean it up for Post-production or whatever. But she really is an amazing singer. The whole band is amazing in my opinion.

[@jasonbodden8816]

Oh, she's great live for sure but there are definitely doubled backing vocals, whispers, pitch correction and so on, after the fact here. But this is common nowadays. Even full live concerts from bands are pitch corrected, some vocals actually added or redone in the studio and added to the finished audio. Sebastian Bach does this in a really obvious way live with his high notes as his high register is very weak and his super high register is nonexistent.

[@mikem8702]

Yes definitely not “live” like we expect but I have seen her live and she is Excellent

[@allofyourdreams]

Live =/= Live session

[@Frenkel111]

When I first saw that "live" performance, I noticed the extra production elements and thought to myslef "that's not live!" I still loved it though

[@tyghe_bright]

The Charismatic Voice does a lot of investigation into how screaming and other distorted vocals work. She's even worked with scientists studying the voice and had them use a scope to view Will Ramos' vocal chords while he's making some of his extreme sounds. She also has a great interview with Tatiana.

[@WayneKitching]

I went down a Tatiana rabbit hole today starting with the Fairy Voice Mother spitting out her tea in shock (and then nailing imitating her), The Daily Doug's analysis and interviews with The Charismatic Voice and Beth Roars.

[@heartpath1]

The human being’s ability to dance around perfection, in this case pitch and rhythm, is the very source of the beauty and meaning in the music. It is quite literally the imperfections that create the goosebumps.

[@m8pwa_]

So you like punk music instead of classic music I get it. No I'm not. If you filter to hard yes but as long as you dont the voice is just another instrument and Jinjer doing this super good.

[@killroy2014]

so true! it´s so sad all this autotune/pitch correction bs....

[@heartpath1]

@@m8pwa_ I hear you but here’s the thing. Once you start tweaking it’s like plastic surgery. You think you’ll just get a little tuck on the jawline and before you know it you’re a freakshow.

[@RobWool]

I agree. Like looks in beauty it is the imperfections that are where the character is. A singer from back in the day who had unique imperfect but likely still edited was Rod Stewart or Louis Armstrong Both families.

[@rientsdijkstra4266]

@@m8pwa_ Nope. If it is pitch corrected it is fake.

[@jamieosborn]

Look at Jinjer doing Perrenial live at Waken 2019. I think the live version being referred to by a lot of reactors is that one.

[@russellward4624]

Actually I think it may be "Judgement Punishment" live session

[@jamieosborn]

@@russellward4624 Yep that is popular but a lot of reactors say, "I needed to see a LIVE performance by Jinjer because I want to see what they really sound like on stage" and the Waken 2019 version of Perennial is a popular go to.

[@michaelvlassakis176]

Also who is gonna be the one live

[@michaelvlassakis176]

I’ve seen them live. They crush it.

[@TroublesomeOwl]

@@michaelvlassakis176 they certainly do. All of them are incredible at what they do

[@maureenwagg5305]

I'm glad you explained how this is achieved. It makes a lot of sense and now I can identify what I was hearing. I love her voice. She's a very beautiful person as well as a beautiful and beastly vocalist. She's an amazing talent and her band is also amazing.

[@emmullgn]

Definitely check out her actual live concert performances. She's one of the best in the bis currently

[@DS-hs3qp]

Does she have to be pitch corrected live, too, while being the 'best' ?

[@emmullgn]

@DS-hs3qp No, this isn't meant to be entirely live according to what they said about it when it was originally released. This was also a long time ago, and her technique has gotten a lot better. I would check out some of their live in Kiev concert stuff like Pit of Consciousness or On the Top. They've really been able to grow as a band since this.

[@workout3D]

@@DS-hs3qp she isn't pitch corrected live, only on a few official live videos. For example, i think that their concert at hellfest 2021, which you can find on youtube, was pitch corrected, but hellfest 2022 was not, because you can clearly hear wrong notes. But she is still a very talented singer

[@veramilton833]

I have no words for this one! Another not live ! Fil , please don't talk like a demon , you are scaring me ! 😢

[@OllieOverTheMoon]

Fil's face says it all even before he speaks. Oh the pain.

[@CousinsPicturesORG]

I would really like to see an analysis of Spiritbox's Circle With Me vocal one take by Courtney LaPlante... Anyone else :D

[@paulmayden7344]

This was made to showcase the band's new drummer Vlad. So they're basically playing to their record from their album and they mixed in Tati's vocals from that album as well to fill it out. Even though the instruments were all live.

[@blitzofchaosgaming6737]

Lead guitar was doubled too because they had 2 guitarists still when they first recorded Pisces. There is an interview where they pull back the curtain on this session. They weren't the ones that threw the "live session" tag on it. Napalm records was.

[@hacki1337]

there are very big differences between screams and grouls btw .. but getting into harsh vocals is like experiencing a hole new universe of vocals

[@ZachComa]

They always play live with backing tracks. I think most of them are tracks actually from the albums. During a tour after the lockdowns opened up, Vlad tested positive for 'Rona mid-tour, so they just piped in his drum parts from Mr. Laptop in addition to the backing tracks for a few shows instead of cancelling.

[@ldisch2476]

She’s the first female vocalist that I ever heard performing harsh vocals. I really enjoy her regular singing voice, and the harsh vocals punctuate the emotion. It makes more sense when you understand the subject matter. It’s definitely an acquired taste, but this group is talented. They put on a good live show.

[@TricksyDK]

Jinjer deliver it live seen them twice.. try a live preformance

[@wingsofpegasus]

Yes I think that was the requesters intention sending me this, thinking it was like a live performance. So I've just applied my normal analysis to it, but if there's another performance video request I can add it to the list!

[@tackle47]

@@wingsofpegasus Perennial live from Wacken 2019 shows the band and vocalist in a live setting well. Like most modern bands there is backing tracks but her vocal performance live is outstanding as is the musicianship. Note the band never claimed the Pisces video was live and complained the label pushed it as a live session.

[@99sheepy]

Yes, this is certainly not a "live" performance we're seeing. I do recall Tatiana, in an interview, regretting that this was labeled as live, since it was kind of a new version of this song, since they had a new drummer, at this time. I was hoping to get a bit of commentary on the time signature changes, bass tapping, etc. But, maybe the plan was to focus on her voice, which generally steals the show. 😁

[@hughphillips1427]

What the hell with they do next, start altering the pitch of Ian Gillan or Robert Plant???

[@DoubleMonoLR]

"Reaction" channels generally pander to fans, so I suspect that those that are opera singers etc often *can* hear autotune/putch correction, but don't say anything because it will be unpopular.

[@tee4222]

The problem here is the people that titled the video. “Live studio recording” is a bit of a misnomer. It’s obviously not live in a sense that would meet any common definition. That’s clearly apparent. “Studio” indicates that it was mixed and mastered. That includes pitch correction in any modern studio.

[@module79l28]

19:35 - And they use backing tracks live too. What's wrong with that? Nothing whatsoever, in my opinion, but the "keyboard warriors" think it's cheating.

[@vishalnaidu]

Entering into the live scene, watching many "live" sessions have made me believe less in if I can even sing or not, but I researched a lot into how most of these live sessions go through heavy post-production, many tuned vocals, sometimes even replaced, and watching this video just opened my eyes more, especially the tuner you're using. Loved it, and it just makes me more confident about not aiming for perfection, but just feel it. Perfection is a myth sold to everyone online, these things just set such unrealistic standards that it's a bad thing for a lot of upcoming artists. You're doing god's work. Not saying there are exceptional vocalists out there, and there are many who can almost be pitch perfect, but the live sessions are just too unrealistic sometimes. PS - What you hear live can be very different, cause the room absorbs a lot of imperfections, but if you hear the same through phone, you can hear it, until it's processed or corrected, it just won't sound as good. (Exceptions there of course)

[@MattKrogmeier]

A couple notes I’d add as I’m watching…the original video description is quite clear that this was “produced up” from “live” - and was intended as an introduction to their new (at the time) drummer, Vlad. There are indeed backing tracks involved, but one major difference between this recording and what was released on the King Of Everything album is the middle guitar bridge. It’s an acoustic guitar on the album, but Roman plays the line on the electric in this video.

[@davejohnston2197]

I'll provide a bit more. The vocal track is from the original recording with this performance layered on. It is production level. The band is overall the live part, but they've never hid the fact this isn't a purely 'live session' with no production. It was a one off to introduce Vlad, as was mentioned. It just blew up with reactors. Absolutely spot on analysis of my favorite band.

[@RokNDragon]

@@davejohnston2197 Yeah, it's ridiculous how many comments are "yeah I knew they couldn't do that Live, it didn't sound like it was really Live, etc,". It's almost like no one READ the description in the Video that it's a mixed version, partially from recordings in that session. The quote in the description of that video... "I believe we had this idea to record a new version of “Pisces” when we first rehearsed the song with Vlad Ulasevich as a new drummer. His drumming makes the song sound really different. So we finally had some free time last winter, we went to Istok studio in Kiev, did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars, then Max from Morton Studio made this new magnificent version of mixing and here we are - Pisces video. I hope you will enjoy it!" Directed by Oleg Rooz Really even more disappointed that this channel clearly didn't read it either, as he keep referring to it like it was falsely promoted as a Live performance.

[@Qyngali]

@@RokNDragon the vocal track is taken from the studio recording in full, the only thing changed is the growling is removed from the clean belted notes at the end. I am a huge Jinjer fan BTW so I don't have an agenda, you can load up both tracks in a DAW and compare them yourself.

[@RokNDragon]

@@Qyngali My only issue with this is that its being talked about it like it's trying to deceive viewers. Multiple comments on this video talk about being disappointed, that a studio recorded, "performance style" video had audio mixing done. Implying that they think it means they only sound good in a studio, and "obviously" can't sound good live. Not all the comments, but a fair number of them. I've heard many of their live performances videos, they sound great live.

[@facedownchuck]

It’s still a horrid practice. Just because you announce that you are cheating in advance doest’t make it any better.

[@gerainthall1941]

That extreme vocal technique is called death growling, not screaming. She's not the only female metal vocalist that can do it.

[@MattKrogmeier]

Fairy Voice Mother does an excellent demonstration of the false cord technique that Tati probably uses. A good example of Jinjer performing live is their Wacken performance of Perennial. I love this band, in case you couldn’t tell. 😅

[@FayettePARoots]

I think a lot of people just don't understand the harsh vocal technique as well as how it's used as expression. I'm sure they'd all say Perennial Live @ Wacken is pitch-corrected and fake somehow, too!

[@rexwine]

I think these two should pair up to do a joint analysis.

[@lonelywind3511]

Another really good analysis of the techniques is on the channel VoiceHacks by Mary Zimmer.

[@marnaehrech1223]

I'm trying to find the name of the band. I think I just saw it. Is it JINJER?

[@Stalthdan]

@@marnaehrech1223 Yes, it's Jinjer.

[@baronofgreymatter14]

Love this band...saw them 2016 thru 2020 probably 6 or7 time in small venues of like 50-100 people or even smaller. Great band great show..was cool to see them before the broke out and then after

[@NightwishArena]

8:41 Tati was like, analyze this! And the software couldn't even draw the lines 😂 Ok, I love these videos, but I think it's a bit useless to analyze other that live performances, which this obviously was specified to be.

[@manjay49]

Dear Mr FIL. Could you please analyze a live Jinger track? I ask because I prefer their live performances. In a lot of the live performances, I feel I hear Tatiana's real voice. She sometimes struggles hitting certain notes and I do not hear any autotune or pitch correction. However some of the live tracks have definitley been tweaked post-production because they do use backing tracks. But some of the live recordings are much more raw and less refined.

[@Neofolis]

Another observation. In the pre-recorded version, when Tatyana does the short belted part near the end, there is also scream vocal at the same time. This could easily have been done here given that there was vocal doubling at various points anyway. I'm assuming they chose not to do that so that it would sound more "live". Obviously everyone would know you can't belt and scream at the same time and whilst people also know you can't double your own vocal live, a doubled scream would be less obvious to many listeners. Interestingly, when it is performed live on stage Tatyana usually just does the scream and drops the belt.

[@ImDembe]

Tracks live is common, heard alot of metal songs with screams mid song that continue and then they start sing before it's ended. Usually not my cup of tea but if it's not to often and for tasty added effect go for it, most bands have it in some sort of way to get a richer sound unless it's unplugged.

[@dave07drummer]

any chance we can have some analysis of 'H era' Marillion vocals plz

[@glebivanov6323]

Lets see what we have here. This video is actually some kind of OMV for the song. Don't you mind when some OMV has obvious postproducted sound of studio recording? I guess nowadays pretty much every OMV in the world has this kind of sound. Usually (oftenly) OMVs use the audio from the studio recording. In this case though they wanted to replace drumming because their new drummer did some cool stuff and the song sounds better. So they took the studio recording and partly replaced it with the sound recorded at the live session. Vocal wasn't recorded in this case, they took it from the studio recording (with a small fix, they removed additional growling layer in the belting part). So it's obviously not the true live session as is. It's even not just post producted, it's more preproducted because they used previously recorded track. But partly it uses sound from the live session. So it's like OMV but it's more live than usually you'd exptect from OMV. They placed this information in description. But I agree that it's not fair enough to put the words "live session" to the title of this video. The band members complained about it too in some interviews. As I can see this was Napalm's decision. Ironicly this video could be the worst representation of Tataiana's live vocal abilities. There're tons of live videos of this band on youtube. Not only official live, many amatour fan videos too. It's easy to check out the real live (concert) sound of Tatiana's vocal. It's obvious that she has great but not perfect vocal and the same song never sounds the same in different live videos. And of course it never sounds the same as it is on studio recording. Most Jinjer fans would say that this band is better live. And here's one of the reasons why - overproduction. This vocalist doesn't need to be pitch corrected. But some (many?) studio tracks has it anyways.

[@theopinson3851]

Listen to the original. There are subtle differences. This is what happens when you play a song live, in the studio, with all of the same equipment, soundproofing, post processing, etc that you used on the studio recording, and do your best to perform something you have rehearsed to death as you played it on record.

[@donnarizzuto2057]

Okay. I think what pitch correction obliterates is intonation. 😢 Makes it sound like a guy I used to know, who was deaf in one ear and hoh in the other. Btw, I'm just an old boomer. Imho, music today really sucks. And I love all music until around 2005. After there is just bland, bland, bland. Music should be inspirational. Not boring af.

[@positivelynegative9149]

We moved past authenticity long ago. I don't trust anything any more. Thanks for these breakdowns. 👍

[@JuanHughJorgan]

Tatiana went back into the studio and laid down the harmony parts and some guitar parts were also laid down. Seen them 6 times live so far and she never fails to deliver. You should check out Judgement and Punishment, which is a 1 take performance by Tatiana. Would love to see if you think that has been corrected as well. Cheers!

[@penseesdeseb4919]

Or I've miss understand (possible, English is not native tongue), or you go to see 6 time a band witch disappoint you? Why? :)

[@iDEATH]

@@penseesdeseb4919 I would bet that OP misspoke (mistyped?) and meant "never disappoints." That's my context take based on the rest of the comment, since it's rather positive in tone otherwise.

[@penseesdeseb4919]

@@iDEATH yes that make sense :)

[@Steely_Fran]

🤔

[@JuanHughJorgan]

@@penseesdeseb4919 No, I mistyped. I meant to say that she never fails to deliver, not disappoint. Thank you for pointing that out. I was very tired haha.

[@ImDembe]

It's everywhere so ive stopped care, as long as the artist can preforme it live or acapella. The problem i have with this pitch thing is, music dosn't need to be perfect as long as it dosn't sound way off, how someone deliver is as important as how it sounds.

[@Double_J_48629]

i think better songs to do this analysis for would be Judgement & Punishment vocal one-take video . there are also several high-quality concert videos floating around.

[@SparkimusPrime]

They are absolutely incredible live. I don’t care about tweaks in production for albums when I know you can produce it live. She laid down the backing tracks before they recorded this. Vlad on stage is the one that is controlling the backing production.

[@svanbold793]

actually it's called growling

[@TorToroPorco]

There is a thrill in seeing a band or musician live that one doesn’t always get from a recording, they are 2 different experiences. Granted some are quite good at recreating the studio sound but experiencing a variation from the original is one of the joys of a live performance.

[@morbidmanmusic]

most live shows also use auto tune,.

[@Fl4ppers]

For me, the thrill was definjitely seeing Soundgarden of RATM doing it completely differently. Its bold, bands have lost that these days.

[@m8pwa_]

@@morbidmanmusic, this was pitch corrected not so much auto tune.

[@Wyl7]

@@morbidmanmusic I disagree, for the same reason Fil gave… Autotune live is risky. A singer can get away with it if they’re consistently close to the correct pitch, but that’s not a given. Singers’ voices fatigue the longer the show goes, and the good ones know how to compensate for that to still sound good. But Autotune is unforgiving… if you get just a little too far from your intended pitch, it will yank it in an unnatural way either to the pitch you were going for, or worse an out of key note above or below the correct one.

[@Drinckx2]

I've seen them live and they are excellent. Tatiana is great live as both a singer and front woman. I think you get a good impression of her singing voice from this, despite the pitch correction. She is entirely self taught; learnt the screaming technique by screaming into a pillow (true!).

[@bnbsda]

But how can you say that? Her voice is pitch corrected so no it doesn’t sound like what she sounds like live. Again, why pitch correction she probably sounds incredibly without it.

[@rofyle]

​@@bnbsdathe same way he can say that you're wrong about only ugly women wearing makeup. Even beautiful women wear makeup too.

[@thatreidguy]

@@bnbsda I saw them a couple months ago. AMAZING.

[@EmmanuelB]

Explanations: This is mostly the audio from the album version. The video was filmed during a live session rehearsal with their new drummer and they decided to make the video to introduce him. Their sound engineer took the drums of Vlad to replace the original drums in the mix and made just a few changes in the original mix (especially a double-layered voice at the end that was removed). So yeah, it's post-produced. It's the album version remixed with a new drum recorded live, over a video of a live session. :)

[@RedPillMode]

very informative, thank you. Doesn't change anything to me, still incredible band and singer. They use tools.

[@foetaltreborus2017]

Can't express how disappointed I am all this is going on...never even imagined it..

[@jasonbodden8816]

Great vid. I picked up on the doubled vocals guitars but other little things I wasn't aware of. I love that you're making me a more active listener. Great stuff.

[@chthoniapodcast]

The sound comes from the demon that lives under your vocal chords. ;) Seriously, I do happen to like that sound, but I also like all of those heavier metal/punk genres. However, this doesn't strike me as "live"!

[@Cadoogan]

It’s totally obvious that this is not entirely/purely live: even through KZbin you can hear dubbing or a second/third take in many places here. I think it’s a given that a live session today will hardly be non-produced and that’s the reason why musically educated reactors don’t even mention it. I‘ve seen Jinjer live and I’m totally convinced that the band is the real deal though. They are great musicians.

[@michaeldivincenzo9941]

Hello, I don't know if someone pointed out that this is a studio live version recorded in one take and POST PRODUCED, it's written in the description of the video, the say it clearly, nothing to be surprised for

[@Kajerman]

Some call it 'growling' while others call it 'false chord', which is the technical term. So that's when you go very low and add vocal distortion, like you described. Used a lot in Death and Doom Metal music (and many more). At the end she goes from using False Chord to 'Fry Scream'. Very popular in Black Metal etc. With False Chord you exhale a lot of air while going very deep. With Fry Scream you add more pressure to your exhaling while tightening your vocal muscles. This uses way less air and with a little practice will let you hold a 'note' for 20 seconds quite easily. Some can even hold it for more than 60 seconds, which is quite banans. However, be careful while practicing these techniques and do it slowly and warm up beforehand. Thanks for the video.

[@wjl2601]

Lots of refurbished material on the tube. Sometimes a pity, sometimes a good use of all the modern possibilities. In this case I don't know. Their musicianship is great, that is not the point. Sometimes it confuses me: What do I hear and what do I see?! Your explanations are helping me a lot. I thank you for that. I keep preferring the 'real' live performances.

[@SYNKSENTURY]

hey just wanted to say, please don’t try to project the scream you demo around the 12:00 mark. it sounds like you’re using your epiglottis, which will absolutely wreck your voice if you add any more volume. it’s a valid technique if used quietly, and appears in some genres like grindcore for example, but it’s very unsafe for a beginner.

[@robertevans2450]

Did you even read the video before you jumped in? It literally makes most of this video moot, as you're just rehashing what is stated but doing it as if you discovered something. You know what would be really useful and interesting about analyzing audio from a compressed several times over data file, is explaining what the different compilers are doing to minimize the size of that data and what that does to the sound, as well as how it compares to the original source from the vocalists before mics even began to record the audio signal.

[@powerpointpaladin6911]

The video is labeled Live SESSIONS. Plural. They are not hiding the fact they are layering the tracks and post producing. There may be a loss of translation here, English is not their first language.

[@ElGuapoDeSantoPoco]

Glad to see hear growls fucked up your pitchfinder... ... Great band

[@jeanne-marie8196]

I’m so glad you took a look at a “screamer” vocalist! As I’ve mentioned in the past, my adult son is a drummer in a heavy metal local band. I know that their screamer took vocal lessons so as not to hurt his throat and vocal cords. I wondered if they were on pitch. I have listened to many heavy metal screamers over these many years, both from local performers live, and from the more prominent professional’s recorded music, (Pantera, Korn, Hatebreed), as it is my son’s music of choice. To this day, that is what is playing in his car, although he does appreciate, classical music, jazz (as a drummer, he prefers “non-four/four” beats…he double pedals and does 32nd beats), Dave Mathew’s, and FRANK SINATRA! I was stunned that the screamer in the recording was the same female vocalist as in the rest of the performance! That girl has the scream down!

[@paulriddle7818]

You should hear her live.

[@yannisgouras4482]

They're not called screamers just like any other singer they're called a singer do not insult them by calling them a screamer

[@lesliegaudreau5310]

Its like a vocal fry. For some odd reason middle school kids like to to this. It's really not good to do long term. It's definitely not my taste. She has a nice voice without the pitch correctly and without the screaming.

[@MickH60]

Hard to watch, it's a real shame you don't research before doing video's, proper context would have been great.

[@RamRod-q7j]

What "context" are you talking about? WOP does plenty of research.

[@daveterret3958]

Some people say her harsh vocals sound "demonic". I've also heard it described at "the boss monster in a video game". What it reminds me of is a mountain lion; the kind you don't want to hear at midnight when you're camping in the mountains. I think there are natural sounds in our common background which we fear, either instinctually or culturally, through stories which make use of elements that have been symbolized that way.

[@mirah77]

I have just actually asked that question to TBeatles further up...

[@RolandTumble23]

I'll leave the question of whether the pitch has been corrected (or she's just that good), alone, but as to the double tracking, it's listed in the description of the original video: "...did a live recording and shooting, then added over some extra lines, like a few backing vocals and guitars...".

[@theopinson3851]

It’s not a question…nor is it unusual in this day and age.

[@allofyourdreams]

Live =/= Live session, thought musicians knew the difference

[@starchitin]

There's both a healthy and an unhealthy way of growling (or screaming, the two terms are used interchangeably). The way you demonstrated it sounded like the unhealthy way to me, which is to say you were using your vocal chords to achieve it. In the short term this can make your voice sound raspy after doing it for more than a song or two, long term it can completely blow out your voice and cause permanent damage. The "healthy" way of growling involves producing the vocals higher up in the throat without engaging the vocal chords. This is why Tatiana is able to switch back and forth between growling and singing so cleanly.

[@lynb2039]

No thanks. 400 hz and 20 seconds is enough for me. Also reminds me of Spears

[@acdover]

Took out the dislikes I see. 🤔🤨There were well over 100 yesterday, now showing 0?

[@jamesewanchook2276]

why can't people just perform without these phoney gimmicks.... Good channel btw.

[@Patryn71]

They do all the time. Go see them live.

[@jamesewanchook2276]

@@Patryn71 I'm going to have another look at that damsel and her band.