Old Prussian, a West Baltic Language?

[@fringeflix]

Holy smokes, it's my comment from last time! Thanks so much. Great work Ben :-)

[@BenLlywelyn]

It was a great idea. Thank you for it.

[@theMantas4444]

I speak Russian, German, Lithuanian and English. My understanding of Germanic, Slavic and Baltic languages gives to your video 👍. Thank you it’s very good. Just little note to my feel Baltic and Slavic are close but yet very different. Case systems are very similar few more exceptions and then some words and when you speak language it feels very different from Slavic Russian.

[@BenLlywelyn]

What a fine thing it must be to speak a Germanic, a Slavic and a Baltic Language and be able to see how they fuse together.

[@theMantas4444]

@@BenLlywelyn This fusion it’s fascinating. Also Slavic languages are very close and similar almost feels like dialects rather then separate languages. When you for example speak Russian you can more or less easy break it all Slavic languages. When you speak German and English you can see how Dutch or Scandinavian are related to each other although in Germanic language group you can’t easily break in to like in to the Slavic group.

[@BenLlywelyn]

As a Welsh speaker, Cornish and Breton are like this. I can understand them with very little effort. We need more people to share their languages like you.

[@sandrazeire3449]

I speak latvian, russian, english and german. I could not say that latvian is close to russian. That is not true. Maybe lithuanian has something common with polish and this is why lithuanian have some similarities with slavic, but i can not see this in latvian. Maybe something similar in gramatic cases but not so much. I think this narrative that baltic l are so similar to slavic are like some russian propaganda. When I went to school we learn that baltic languages are a different branch in a language tree and there was no that termin "balto-slavic".

[@theMantas4444]

@ hello, I saw your comment. I understand your point. However, at school we in Lithuania were taught same about language groups. However, if you look honestly without politics at grammar you can find striking parallels between Slavic and Baltic languages which is not find in other languages. Ok grammar is bit complicated. Let’s do very simple experiment. Please give to listen audio of Latvian and Lithuanian languages to any Germanic native speaker and asking him/her do those languages sound Slavic without disclosing what they are listening. I tried and unfortunately to me they all grouped together with slavic languages.

[@jjgdenisrobert]

Ben, you need better audio. With your set up, your best bet is likely a lavalier mic to avoid all the reflections from the hard walls. You can use acoustic treatment, but that's going to be more involved and costly. A lavalier will act as a proximity mic, and will greatly attenuate ambient sound and reflections.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you

[@ak5659]

Polish and Lithuanian would have a lot of loan words from each other due to the joint commonwealth. But the languages are quite different. My grandfather's family is from the Suwalki area. That's supposedly where the Jadzwingi, the last-to-assimilate subgroup of the Prusi lived. The last name appears to be a Polish-ized Balt name, not actually Polish.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Sounds like a good video idea.

[@gregcampwriter]

I'd be interested in a video about the apparent tendency of languages to start out with a comnplex synthetic system and then to shift toward an increasingly analytic method of conveying the role that the words play in a sentence. The more speakers a language has, the stronger that trend appears to be, especially if they have a lot of interaction with speakers of a related language, such as what happened with Old Norse and Old English in Britain. It surprises me that a language would start out with a complex case system, something that I would expect from deliberate construction--Tolkien used that in building his Elven languages, with the newer varieties having lost much of their original case endings, but he was modeling his inventions on what happens in observed languages.

[@BenLlywelyn]

I would have to see that this happened in non-Indo European languages as well to make any case for that. As for it happening with more speakers, to have more speakers requires assimilating other groups, often from other language groups - for whom the case system is foreign or different. So large groups entering new languages tend to simplify grammar due to communication barriers.

[@jwadaow]

Yes I would have thought Prussians of all people would be ruthless at instruction of a complicated system.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Their legacy lives on.

[@gregcampwriter]

@@BenLlywelyn It just seems strange that a language would start out with this particular kind of complexity. Of course, we don't have any certain knowledge of the earliest languages.

[@thomasruhm1677]

Coptic is more complicated than Demotic. It is said to be a circle.

[@Dimera09]

Love the banana! This is such an interesting video, thanks! I never even thought about this before, just assumed it was always Germanic around there!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Oh yes, a long and multicultural history there in Prussia.

[@agnieszkaevenson5539]

You think all was Germanic over there? Then maybe dive into this rabbit hole... this is from the Wiki article about a part of Berlin: "While its origins are shrouded in mystery, Köpenick has had a long history as an independent town. In the 12th century, it was the residence of a Slavic prince, Jaxa of Köpenick. By this time, it had probably been settled by Lechitic tribes for about 400 years. After Jaxa's death, the principality was reigned by the dukes of Pomerania." Not so Germanic even all the way to Berlin...

[@Dimera09]

@@agnieszkaevenson5539 great point Agnieszka, thanks! I'm glad to say I have become a little wiser since the 2 years of posting this comment, and your response helps me further 🤘🏿

[@artursbondars7789]

Ok, as Latgalian historian I can say that Latvian and Latgalian is close to Prussian as Your mentioned linden tree analogy is 'liepa' and 'līpa', but of course there are differences to. Latvian language is more close to Sanskrit than other Baltic languages. Old Prussian language is used by Prussian and Baltic communities today, so it is not a dead language.

[@BenLlywelyn]

I am glad to know Old Prussian is being used.

[@sauliusbagdonas1695]

Not correct. Lithuanian is more close to indoeuropean prolanguage , Latvian has more foreign words from Slavic, etc.

[@artursbondars7789]

@@sauliusbagdonas1695 Well if we use such old analogies then Lithuanian has more words from polish, belorussian and so on. So what? I'm not talking about borrowings and things like words from common origins etc

[@BenLlywelyn]

@@artursbondars7789 All languages are filled with other languages. Welsh has loads of Latin. English 1/3rd French. Romanian is part Slavic and Turkish. Spanish is part Arabic.

[@artursbondars7789]

@@BenLlywelyn My point! :D

[@brettanthonypalmer2956]

Thanks for this content mate, best to you and yours from me and mine from Australia

[@BenLlywelyn]

You are welcome. Cheers.

[@arturasandriusaitis8832]

Proto-Slavic emerged very late: 500 BC-500 AD in very small territory between the Upper Dniester and Pripet from the mixture of Western Baltic (Pre-Prussian) and Scythian. This is my view. Thank you.

[@jampuppy]

This was great. Thanks. I am interested in a deeper dive into this subject. Any recommended sources?

[@BenLlywelyn]

Try this: www.prusai.org/language-en.html Also, the novel, Le Petit Prince, has been translated into Prussian, and is a good book to read with a dictionary when learning any language in my opinion.

[@crazywelshman5909]

You should do a video on the free Wales army. They are very important to Welsh history, proud people fighting for Wales 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@BenLlywelyn]

Prince Llywelyn can be a special guest interview.

[@fidenemini111]

Your channel is very interesting. Thank you for your interest in Baltic languages. Beer both in Lithuanian and Latvian is the same - Alus. The only difference is that in Latvian stress falls on the first syllable, and in my native Lithuanian - on the last one. With the exception for Samigitian dialect and it's subdialects - they follow accentuation pattern similar to Latvian language has as both were under the strong Finnic Livonian influence. Samogitian though got it indirectly - through neighboring Baltic Curonian tribe. Alaus is an Accusative singular case. Nom. Alus Gen. Alaus Dat. Alui Acc.Alų Instr. Alumi Loc. Aluje Voc. Alau!

[@fidenemini111]

Herkus for Herkus Mantas (or Monte) stands for Prussian version of his German Christian name Heinrich.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Yes

[@BenLlywelyn]

Kind thank you for your interest.

[@gediminasmorkys3589]

Nice! Wales is fascinating in a way because the old language still gets used. In fact, it was the first thing I tried for fun on Duolingo 🙂 Some of the words from Lithuanian demoed here were not correct, but I got some new info on the remaining Prussian language sources. Time well spent.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

[@jaapvandenbergh7430]

Thanks, so interesting 😊

[@tedi1932]

Very interesting, thank you

[@BenLlywelyn]

You're very welcome.

[@lilyvilla8646]

I am trying to reconstruct my ancestral knowledge for historical trauma healing. This video has been immensely helpful in my research. Thank you so very much for making this!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you Lily, and I am happy to of been a help to you. Excellent result!

[@remigijuslukauskas4517]

Not only the Baltics borrowed Slavic words, but also the Baltic Slavs. Russian linguists identified about 300 words of Lithuanian origin, for example: kaušas (Lithuanian) - kovš (Russian)

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you.

[@claudiochanganaqui2048]

One about Dnieper Baltic like Eastern Galindian?:-)

[@BenLlywelyn]

A good video suggestion. Would need to read up on this to see. I have booked marked a page on this.

[@albertusjung4145]

There is a whole catechism written in old Prussian!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Indeed. A lot there, and maybe enough to rebirth?

[@malaxes]

Aestians are nowadays Estonians and Prussian according to Polish chronicles were know as Borusy, people living in Bory (kind of forest) the name was probably change when Teutonic Knights have take area and pronounced it as Prusy (Prussia).

[@BenLlywelyn]

Initial B and P changes a lot when languages change.

[@jwadaow]

Wouldn't mind a video on the case system and why it was lost.

[@BenLlywelyn]

It might be a time.

[@erichamilton3373]

It may have been lost as an areal feature: a large group of West Euro languages has become analytic in nature...based more on syntax instead of morphology/cases. It's interesting as it's far from the Indo European homeland...perhaps the inflhence of previous languages?

[@linasma235]

7:18 This text does not say god it says father and as a Lithuanian I can read it quite easily

[@erichamilton3373]

Actually piwo, alus, and ale are believed to be etymologically related. Piwo came from a pi-wol form...pi from the root "to drink" as in pić...the wol itself being related to the al- root in the Germanic and Baltic. So a commonality, not a Germanic borrowing.

[@robertprice5039]

My paternal ancestors would have spoken Prussian. They were from the old East Prussian / Russian Border region, and my Price surname was Preis/Prus, and not the Welsh Ap Rees, though I do have Welsh ancestors on my mother's mother's side.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Glad I could show you some of your heritage.

[@Lee-jh6cr]

My ancestors were Mazuren. My 3 Xs great grandmother's surname was Preuss, but whether it stems from being Old Prussian or the German name for the area, I can't know. Some of the surnames of our family are Slavicized (& Americanized) Old Prussian tribal names, as in Bartosheski and Poganski. My grandparents spoke Mazuren, which is a fusion of Mazovian, Old Prussian, and low German. It is still spoken in small scattered pockets.

[@lumiere-fontaine]

I have Prussian ancestors, so really would want to help in the revival of the language. In fact my nearest ancestors that were not born in America where Franz Adolf Strunge born in Klackendorf, East Prussia(Now Troszkowo, Poland) and Augusta Minnie Kraschnewski born in Rosenburg, West Prussia(Now Rosenburg, Austria) They are my Great Great Great Grandparents and I do not think that they spoke the language, but that my ancestors from before them spoke it. Possibly, my 10th great grandparents spoke old Prussian(that would be the in the 1700s and before) I say this because old Prussian died in the beginning of the 18th century

[@BenLlywelyn]

It is astounding the language lasted even so long.

[@aniinnrchoque1861]

If you are indeed interested in the revival I'd be happy to be in contact, I'm looking for someone equally interested in learning the language.

[@robertberger4203]

How about a video on the fascinating Ossetian language of the Caucasus , which is the only surviving member of the ancient Iranian. Scythian/ Sarmatian languages . Ossetian is related to the Pashto language of. Afghanistan and Pakistan. but is. influenced by. the Non-Indo- European languages of the Caucasus such as Georgian and Circassian .

[@BenLlywelyn]

It would be an interesting one - which will require reading 1st.

[@melpannack8245]

Sorbs from Lasatia is close to Prussian

[@BenLlywelyn]

The Sorbs deserve several of their own videos.

[@kerthialfad]

I have studied Lithuanian and can converse. Do you know what Lithuanians call East Prussia / Kalinigrad? Lithuania Minor!! There is a word in English - a noun - of Baltic/Prussian/Lithuanian origin. Care to take a guess?

[@BenLlywelyn]

Just one? Prussia.

[@kerthialfad]

@@BenLlywelyn the word is spruce - from the phase “is prus” meaning “from Prussia”

[@digna1256]

Hmm.... strange... Old prussian 07:21 ?? This same text would sound like this in Latvian... Sveiks, kungs! Tu ne jau labs esi tēvelis (tēvainis?). Ja kaitēja (kaitēji?) dzert(i), nekaitēja pengu dot(i)...

[@BenLlywelyn]

I don't know. Same language family.

[@arnoldaszeimys7484]

What is that Prusna, Dot in lithuanian ? :D Beer in lithuanian is just alus.

[@vlagavulvin3847]

The grammar and morphology of Baltic and Slavic are almost identical. As for the vocabulary, it is also common in many respects, but the average Poles or Lithuanians do not realize this due to significant phonetic shifts happened in Slavic. If some hillbilly Vasya is suddenly taught to rewind all 3 palatalizations and close back all open syllables (where the Baltic final is actually destroyed) then Vasya will surprisingly begin to understand Lithuanian on the fly.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Is this Slavic's exposure to a wide variety of other language groups, I wonder?

[@vlagavulvin3847]

Please, clear it up a bit, fella... what groups should we mean here?

[@sandrazeire3449]

I speak latvian and russian. That is not true. This languages are very different and no way to understand each other.

[@vlagavulvin3847]

@@sandrazeire3449 Вы, батенька, прочли первые полторы фразы, а дальше не?.. ОК, помогу. Среднестатистические поляки или литовцы не имеют взаимопонимания из-за значительных фонетических сдвигов, произошедших в праславе. Но если рандомного колхозника, взятого с улицы, внезапно научить "отматывать взад" все 3 палатализации и "закрывать обратно" все открытые в праславе слоги (по закону восходящей звучности, где существующая в балтийских слоговая финаль фактически уничтожается), то колхозник неожиданно начнет понимать литовский язык на лету. Но это уже компаративистика. Без которой русский колхозник латыша и близко не поймет. А вот посредственный лингвист, выросший и получивший образование в России, будет читать и понимать ваши вывески с полпинка. И даже песенки Кауперса поймет, если не с первого раза, так с третьего. Русскоязычные, живущие в Латвии, усваивают латышский язык вовсе не так, как лингвисты. А на бытовом уровне, в среде, по сути, так же, как носители. Оттого для них языки разные, что они не видят скрытых закономерностей, открытых для лингвистов.

[@tracywright6908]

WOW! Paldies!

[@BenLlywelyn]

Welkommen.

[@tracywright6908]

I would like to use this cornucopia of wonderfully rich detail for my research. Gratitude. @@BenLlywelyn

[@sositehui6483]

Prussian history is almost unknown and its influence on Russia. Goths, Scots etc. etc. also lived there.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Scots?

[@sositehui6483]

@@BenLlywelyn tens of thousands of descendants. Read the works of Bryan Sykes, "Diary of General Patrick Gordon" idk.

[@sositehui6483]

@@BenLlywelynyoutube.com/@PushnoyRU?si=X7R2aKyS5gG12dwh ordinary Russian Scot🙃

[@Lee-jh6cr]

Scots immigrated to East Prussian Mazury quite late, after the region was decimated by war and plague in the 16/1700s, knocking the population back by half in certain areas. People immigrated from other parts of Europe as well, but after the initial colonization of East Prussia by Mazovian and primarily Germanic people fusing with Old Prussian tribes, it's not like the area was overrun by another ethnicity. People got around. Everywhere. The 700 year regional ethnic fusions remained in place until the end of WWII when it was split between Poland and Russia, resulting in a diaspora, especially of those with Germanic backgrounds. My family having Mazovian background, remained.

[@lauramt4454]

Soooo many inaccuracies.. baltic language is absolutely no where near to slavic. Just because Polish language has some Lithuanian words doesn’t mean baltic and slavic is similar. Check how many centuries Poland was ran by Lithuanian dynasty. Romuva is the pagan religion (legal today in Lithuania as a national religion) not Prussia. I have no understanding how you could have come up to name religion into Prussia. My great grandparents were Prussians and fluently spoke the language. Many Russian words stayed in Lithuania during such a long occupation.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you for watching.

[@ak5659]

Wherewd you great-grandparents live? I mean, what's it called today? Iwve a pair of great-grands from Suwalki: Bilwinowo & Jeleniewo, specifically and their last name appears to be a Polish-ized Balt name. That area is where the Jadzwingi lived and IIRC, they were the last subgroup of the Prusi to be assimilated into the Commonwealth.

[@lauramt4454]

@@ak5659 in the “Little Lithuania” the region that was Prussia. Otherwise called Köninberg to Heydekrug. In those regions are still plenty writings to find in the old language on very old buildings.

[@rolandsv8]

Structure of baltic and slavic languages is very similar that shows their common origin. Same declinations, conjugations etc.

[@antanassmetona4054]

@@rolandsv8 you're delusional if you unironically think Baltic and Slavic languages had a common origin besides being Indo-european languages. Portuguese should also be included in your deluded made up world of Balto-porto-slavic languages.

[@artursbondars7789]

You did not give explanation why thouse first Cristian missionaries were killed. It's because they broke the laws and promises and desecrated holy sites.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Thank you for shedding light on that.

[@stiklas6712]

If you want to know what does it mean - Prussian? , just ask Lithuanian or Latvian (2 survived languages) or even translate it from prussian ;) it mean - white Face or clear face. Prūsas - švarus veidas.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Beautiful languages I am sure.

[@LuDux]

And if you ask them about Yotvingians they'll say it means "drunk riders":D

[@melpannack8245]

I’m so frustrated, look at the Sorbs!

[@arnoldaszeimys7484]

Learn in lithuanian in a week? Are you kidding with patreons? :D

[@BenLlywelyn]

Here is my Patreon page! www.patreon.com/BenLlywelyn

[@tetris136]

Arus - Surstet - Ursa Rusa =Good Morning! Mountain Jānis between your eyes when you are standing in Prussia and looking to south maybe you will find it? Good Evening Prussia! Nāve - Evan - Evening - Navj.

[@edisaeiddis3984]

______________

[@BenLlywelyn]

`•°°•`

[@Vil9876]

There is only one Prussian language, without the epithet Old. Prusoks (brown cockroaches) spoke German.

[@BenLlywelyn]

Gentlemen do not call whole nationalities cockroaches, on the occasional and singular sycophant.

[@Vil9876]

@@BenLlywelyn , It is not a nationality, but cannibals who killed a nation and appropriated its name. Brown cockroaches are really called cockroaches (prūsokai) in Lithuania. It is a fact of language. Maybe the prūsokai came to Lithuania from that side?

[@Lee-jh6cr]

​@@BenLlywelynThank you for standing in defense of my ethnic Baltic Old Prussian heritage!