The Covenant Would Be a Great Faction for 40k by PancreasNoWork - Reaction

[@andrewniehoff8612]

I also have to agree with the original video. I have grown tired of all comparisons boiling down to "We have Space Marines. They'll yell and charge in with their chainswords and beat everyone because they are just better."

[@cr90captain89]

well they have tactics too, plus i don't think the covenant or any popular sci- fi setting can fight & win against hundreds of thousands of space marine chapters of which has 1k marines a piece. its just not gonna happen especially when bolters are standard loadout for them.

[@Hello-lf1xs]

I mean, yeah - the Imperium’s full attention would destroy many factions in 40k, it’s just that as far as I know barely anything ever GETS their full attention, due to the ‘fighting on a million fronts’ thing - another comment said that 100 elites could possibly take down a small squad of marines with heavy casualties, which I agree with - I also agree that a full chapter would be a huge threat on the ground

[@wangchung2157]

Dr Halsey said it herself the UNSC could and would win most ground engagements through maneuvers and tactics but it was the space battles where the UNSC was easily outclassed she believed them to be hundreds of years behind the Covies in space tech so yea Space Marines are a different beast

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

@@Hello-lf1xs a full chapter yes but again when does that ever happen outside of large battles at most its always like 1 or 2 squad not an entire chapter.

[@Hello-lf1xs]

That is very true.

[@Gr33nOfGrundleburg]

The idea of a White Scars marine getting his hands on a Covenant Ghost and modifying it to be his personal combat vehicle is very appealing to me

[@Sinahji]

would be funny i agree xD but honestly, landspeeder from the whitescars outdo covenant ghosts by far

[@JayPlusForerunner]

Or a chopper

[@John2r1]

@Sinahji yep agree the only thing the Ghosts have over Land Speeders is plasma cannons that aren't a roll of the dice as to rather they explode when you fire them.

[@mikedicewrites]

The Orks would absolutely love the Brutes.

[@zahylon5993]

"lemme tesh you da way of the WAAAGH brother!"

[@90skidcultist]

Brute: *Can this “Waagh!” be mastered, brother??*

[@Hunter-zf7rt]

​@@90skidcultistnot by dos imperial humies

[@luketheskymarshall4472]

I think at the end he meant that the space marines will lose based on chapter. Ultra marines and other smart ones will be fine but what I will call “horny” chapters will get slaughtered. Horny as in they’re just khorne marines but they just say for the emperor instead of for the blood god. Mf’s who want to use their chain sword more than they want to live. Just a thought.

[@spacewolfblackmane19]

Some how I heavily doubt that as many other factions such as the Tau, and Eldar have tried exactly that and found themselves simply over matched. They might kill a few but it really only takes a kill team or two to break through and throw even the best laid out plans into complete chaos, and slaughter. Assault marines, infiltrators, and other shock assault specialists, especially the elite/teleporting ones, might take heavy losses at first but after an engagement or two, and devouring their brains, I don't believe that their advantages would be nearly as heavy as it was before.

[@John2r1]

@@spacewolfblackmane19 Do you know what the Covenant do to planets when the lose ? Those who start eating the Covenants dead will find out what the meaning of cleansing with holy fire means. See the Covenant Glass planets when they lose starting with the Astartes munching on their dead. A Energy Projector firing superheated plasma at the speed of light is going to vaporize them.

[@spacewolfblackmane19]

@@John2r1 The concept of "Glassing" is anything but new, especially in the 40k universe, and most certainly does not change the fact that the covenant fleet might get away with burning a handful of worlds, most extremanatus's are carried out in a very similar way. And so unless they can take the ground and destroy the many man levels of orbital defenses that come standard upon your average hive world. (Remember each hiving being the equivalent to a massive fortress all on its own.) they simply CANNOT safely bring their ships into low enough, or geosynchronous orbit long enough to actually GLASS most planets in the imperium. The ground war that the PDF alone is able, and willing to engage in far out strips any petty defense that humanity in the Halo universe is cappable of. Will simply cripple their fleets ability to carry out glassing actions. And even then "they lost the ground war so they will just burn the world anyways" is an adorable notion in the 40k universe, thats a very regular thing. And unless the Covanent is will to devote overwhelming force to every single war zone. They will bleed ships at a rate that they simply CANNOT sustain. And forerunners have mercy if and when they decide to take on some of the properly defended subsectors, and systems. Unless they are willing to send High Charity itself into the fight. Those had shells ant breaking. And of course this is to say nothing of what the other factions can, and Will do

[@John2r1]

@@spacewolfblackmane19 You missed the point. Entirely. The point was that the Covenant will glass them when they start trying to eat the brains of the fallen Covenant soldiers. This means that group of Astartes dies . They learn absolutely nothing. Because they are killed in the process. Besides that the Omophagea commonly called "the Remembrancer". Which is what you are referring to that allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. Is actually very limited to what the individual experienced just before death. This isn't going to give them all the memories of the individual. Memories don't work that way. Memories are stored as signals between neurons of the brain. And the brain is like a Wikipedia page always being updated.

[@nobleman9393]

@@John2r1 So since when does the Covenant know everything that happens in the universe and can teleport there instantly?

[@Spartan135]

Ethereal meets Prophet:"Have you ever heard about the Greater Good?" Prophet:"Not interested,do you want to join our covenant and want to join our religion? If not,you get glassed..." Ethereal:"Shit,not that religious zealot shit again!"

[@zahylon5993]

I imagine the Ethereals and Prophets will smoke one out together and come up with something like "What if the Greater Good....brings you closer to the start of The Great Journey?" *passes blunt* "yeah, that sounds about right" honestly...these two factions would get along. I doubt they'll try to forcefully assimilate each other, and more likely just open free trade.

[@andrewmeyer3599]

​@@zahylon5993 If it means the Prophets are losing any power, they'll make up a story about how the Ethereals are heretical

[@wolffrdu6463]

@@andrewmeyer3599 really possible

[@andrewmeyer3599]

@@wolffrdu6463 It already happened once with Humanity

[@wolffrdu6463]

yea, that why i say really possible, it just if the ethereals show what the profet was trying to do, it might have a civil war, like what appen with the elites @@andrewmeyer3599

[@SoCHobbit]

I have to agree with his opinion on space marines vs the covenant. The main thing would be that there are far more space marines then there ever were Spartans. I think that when it came to ground warfare however. Similar to the UNSC, the weapons and armor, and super soldiers of the Imperium would prove to be very effective against the Covanent. However I think the covies would be far more likely to simply glass the planet, and in space they would prove a large threat to the fleets of the imperium. Many of the times the UNSC got.the advantage in the war with the Covenant is when they fought on forerunner worlds like Halo, where the covies refused to glass because they saw them as sacred.

[@nobleman9393]

Hive cities and important installations are protected by void shields, so glassing isn't always an option.

[@PackHunter117]

@@nobleman9393 Covenant plasma burns right through energy shields like a hot knife through butter

[@nobleman9393]

@@PackHunter117 Void Shields aren't energy shields

[@PackHunter117]

@@nobleman9393 “A Void Shield is a special form of energy field employed by the Imperium of Man's various military forces to protect starships and super-heavy vehicles like Imperial Titans from enemy attacks.” Isnt that pretty much and energy shield?

[@nobleman9393]

@@PackHunter117 Energy Shields deflect or absorb incoming attacks, Void Shields send incoming attacks to the Warp.

[@samiamtheman7379]

If there's one faction of Space Marines that would definitely take heavy casualties against the Covenant, it would be the Lamenters. We all know why.

[@jarlathquinn2628]

The lamenters take heavy casualties against a light breeze

[@jarlathquinn2628]

@skulmaster6019 yeah but I said nothing about that

[@luna_rich3980]

I disagree with your disagreement, the covies would be able to hold their own against the marines…..when working together, and I think that’s what I think he meant, in the halo universe there are many strategies the covies do use in lore so there might be something in their play book to deal with the SMs, but will they be able to slaughter them? No, but they can definitely win fights if they are smart

[@wangchung2157]

Yes and no as the UNSC almost always would out maneuver the Covenant on the ground. The Covenant wouldnt just glass planets to destroy the infrastructure and exterminate humans but to force the battles into space where they had the clear overwhelming advantage over the UNSC fleet so I have a hard time visualizing them overwhelming the Space Marines in straight fight

[@lorddanielthesecond73]

1000 hunters

[@starhammer5247]

@@wangchung2157 Actually, they could ONLY outmaneuver them, which was ONLY because of the Spartans. When Spartans weren't involved, the fight quickly devolved into a slaughter as even the standard Grunt can shred an average human in melee.

[@linked2dio26]

So basically they're a better version of the Tau

[@sados6497]

Also in the lore, the covies weren't entirely focused on the humans.something that's easy to forget about halo is that it takes place IN A FUCKING GALAXY. The covies had to worry about atriox, other alien species with their own empires, and they were also searching for forerunner artefacts. If the covies were focused on just war they would be perfectly suited to 40k

[@shadowstrider8295]

"You're gonna feel a fuel rod cannon to the face." Me and boss know what the aftermath of that looks like

[@PackHunter117]

The thing about the Covenant though is they had half of the galaxy conquered. They had thousands of manufacturing plants where they could essentially 3D print an endless amount of stuff and with thousands of Engineers or Huragok that can endlessly fix and reverse engineer tech at will for the Covenant. Plus augment shields for the ground troops.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

Dude I know these people think the covenant can’t keep up industrially. The Covent who baseline conquered half the galaxy. The Covenant who use disposable military bases called Citadels (Halo Wars 1); each one able to mass produce munitions and vehicles. The Covenant who’s fleet ships, and worlds have many nano machine mass Assembly Forges that can make anything from a gun to a Starship. The Covenant who’s primary ammunition is as plentiful as the stars. The Covenant who’s infantry infantry learns faster then humans and breeds even faster (Grunts). And if that wasn’t enough, the convent have the flying Drones who breed like wasp swarms. Prey the Letgolo breed slower cause otherwise the numbers game is not even going to be a contest. The Covent who have a creatures who can repair and replicate their tech and then some; including themselves (Engineers) oh and they can heal organic tissue and make forcefields too. The Covenant who’s guns are so efficient, in lore they only have to reload after days of warfare use. The Covent who mass produced custom equipment for there new Brute based troops rapidly and can easily mass produce the air the Grunts breath and that’s logistics most armies don’t even have to worry about yet they do it in their sleep. The Covenant who literally has mass produced air ships called “Vampires” that can freez enemies in place with a beam wile draining their enemies health and equipment to somehow repair themselves (halo wars 1) the banished even used that same tech in a different vehicle in (Halo wars 2) so there is president. So yeah I think the Covenent can easily industrialize competitively; maybe even more competently because you know, they each basically have their own STCs in their forward operating bases, ships, and manufacturing worlds. Last thing: Golly Gee wouldn’t it suck to be using high tech inferior Laz guns, vehicles medieval-ly assembled mech suits, and vehicles platforms against a faction who’s most plentiful weapon not only fires superior damaging plasma, and has a aim assist, but also has a EMP function that can knock out electronic equipment and vehicles. Just saying that “no innovation” stance the Imperium has will be their downfall if they don’t adapt their tech to that.

[@Lmaokekw975]

@@wastelesslearning1245 this itself is not true, the covenant NEVER conquered half of the galaxy and also doesn't have millions of worlds. The furthest they spread was one arm of the galaxy. The Orion arm. At most that's around 5 -10 % of the galaxy and their colonies number in the high 100 low thousands ( colonies not industrial worlds) see Halo fractures. Compare that to the million worlds the imperium REALLY has ( including hundred or thousands of agricultural worlds still living in the middle age) Also the buildings you are referring too, are forward operating bases. Heck the UNSC has the same. These are gameplay elements ! You can also say the UNSC can drop a building and magically create a bunker and mineral /energy / Vulture production. Also the energy sucking of the vampire is a gameplay feature and not lore accurate ..., the vampire WAS equipped with a heavy needle cannon and a stasis cannon, which could deactivate small vehicles by EMP or disturb communication of bigger ships. Also the vampire ? Really ? That thing was so inefficient and straight up bad against the majority of UNSC vehicles that they decided to discontinue producing it. Pls dont write bullshit because you fanboy over a franchise while ignoring facts. Would the covenant survive in 40K ? Yes. Could they hold up and even be a real threat at times ? Yes . Could they win a 1 on 1 war with any major party in 40 k ? Heck no. And that comes from an diehard Halo fan.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

@@Lmaokekw975 our galaxy has around 100 billion planets 5% is 5 billion. Even if a fraction of that is colonies they still have huge numbers. 2-3 of their species reproduce like rabbits on top of that. Lore wise coveent stomped the UNSC until the covenants own civil war stoped the steam roll. So no, lore wise, there troops are effective. Again in comics you see Covent cydidell so they are cannon even if you refuse to acknowledge gameplay and gameplay descriptions lore. Everything in halo combat evolved was gameplay before it became lore. Banished are gameplay. Half the halo infinite campaign your tracking down weapon schematics and blowing up ammo printers and vehicle supply based. Sound familiar to the cydidell nano machine factories? You must realize half the reason we play these games is for the campaign story implications that is depicted by gameplay. It’s cannon. Literally showing up in rise of atriox comic in its identical to its cydidell halo wars 1 gameplay aesthetic. I’m not making things up. I’m not ignoring facts I’m accounting for ones you don’t want to acknowledge. I have seen halo factories they literally have nano machine factories on their ships and some of their Cydidells/ Forward operating bases (also make appearances in halo infinite) FOB non FIRE bases cause there’s a difference. Anyway glad we can agree Covenant would be able to survive and be threatening. I don’t care if they “win” the galaxy. Just that people acknowledge they are a serious threat. I don’t know why people don’t want to believe the coveent teleportation thing where most the games show coveent teleportation since the prequel game through the original trilogy to halo wars spin offs.

[@Lmaokekw975]

@@wastelesslearning1245 dude it's stated in the books that the covenant had around 1000 planets and no teleportation was not used by them pre human war if you ignore one short story about an elite who was teleported by accident by using forerunner technology. And yeah I consider everything gameplay elements what's not stated in the lore, otherwise your average human is able to tank 12 plasma shots to the face ... and please read the lore and stop spouting bullshit u heard somewhere or remembered wrong . Also the Orion arm is the furthest range the covenant ever traveled regularly with exception of expedition flights. Also the covenants losses in the war with the unsc were called taxing and far stronger than anticipated, wile the novel kilo five event stated that so many Shanheili fell in the human war that some keeps of Sangheilios ( their home planet ) compared to ghost keeps. In fact so may, that they even may had lost the great schism. Now let's compare that to the imperium, which own in fact BILLIONS of worlds and let's for example take the battle of beta garmon where in 1 battle fell probably more soldiers than in the complete human covenant war which numbered is the 10 billions. Also for example the titans given in the video which could rival a titan ( which is true btw) how would they compare against bigger titans ( 200 meters tall see apocalypse book ). Also the CSO supercarrier are powerful ... which the covenant had 2 of .... I think I said enough, if you would start reading the lore instead of nerdgasm over self made up facts we could continue this argument.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

@@Lmaokekw975 Halo reach Spire teleportation, Halo 2-3 Prophet chair teleportation, halo wars and comics like rise of atriox that clearly show coveent cydidell and characters from the game; that teleport in their equivalent of forward operating bases. The entire slip space thing most big covenant ships have which covenant can do in atmosphere is practically teleportation. In conclusion the entire franchise has covenant knowing that tech. The coveent has been reverse engineering forunner tech for centuries so this really should not surprise you. Since halo wars seems to be a hard pill to swallow for you, if it makes you feel better, instead of troops and supply and constructs teleporting as shown, imagine the ship carrying the supply teleporting and gravity lifted down to proactively the same effects. The covenant carriers Cary the equipment, manufacturing in some cases, and fob supplies/troops, so if they slip space jump in atmosphere aka teleport then all those inside can hitch a ride then be dropped then the carrier could teleport back. So just except they can teleport things cause either way they can. But ok covenant is not likely that big. I was just going off the numbers you stated “5-10%”. But either way there industry capacity for growth is insane between those nano machine factories and engineers and grunt/drone breeding. So what you have is a faction with rapid scaleability, superior maneuverability (slip space) tech, more powerful plasma weapons on average, with gold stealth capabilities. Also For every quote that says the UNSC was doing major damage or could win I can find 3 more that says they were loosing hard. I mean the main games literally show humanity getting blitzed. Random colonies didn’t stand a chance, then their military world bastion Reach didn’t stand a chance. Then there was just Earth left as humanity’s final chance and even that was a struggle with half the covenant civil war helping themselves get defeated. Humans didn’t they survived long enough for the half the covenant to help them. I mean feel free to ignore the entire video game trilogy, fall or reach, halo wars, all for like a two or so quotes on UNSC copium; but that’s not how I role. And like let’s be real if the Tau can survive in 40k and be a playable faction, the bigger head start on tech Covenant can too. Coveent even more so cause they can evade, hide, mass breed and mass produce their equipment. I leave you with this slippery quality and potential for quantity (covenant) over stagnant quantity, (Imperium). Like the Bureaucracy was so bad the inquisitors almost overlooked a gene stealer cult on Tera and they lost so most their production capabilities for their ultra good tech. Every time I read a 40k wiki it’s like a 80% it will say “technology x is so superior in every way; too bad that pattern was lost. Now only [number less then 5%] of the imperium have them” or “this technology is so superior, too bad if too of them touch or are even used, they blow up the user.” Not saying Imperium is a week faction but they sure as hell ain’t invincible and are in fact getting weaker over time.

[@kevinbarber2795]

Well I gotta agree with his stuff about Space Marines, dude. He also wasn’t just saying they win because plasma, since you weren’t listening apparently. He said they have experience dealing with those tactics before. It’s crazy how defensive and refusing to listen to more people get when someone dares say something they don’t want to hear about their precious Space Marines.

[@nobleman9393]

Astartes Drop Pods are much more durable and much faster than UNSC drop pods.

[@demetriusmiller2696]

@@nobleman9393 true but you can put any class or type of soldier in to a unsc drop pods. With a little bit of training.

[@theonewhouploadsnothing1704]

@@nobleman9393 It depends on how effective plasma turrets are, definitely some will get through but certainly not unscathed.

[@nobleman9393]

@@theonewhouploadsnothing1704 Can they shoot down an Object moving at 12 000 km/h?

[@starhammer5247]

@@nobleman9393 Yes. Yes, they can.

[@kabob0077]

9:21 And that's only the Type-47Bs, there's also BIGGER Scarabs, like the Type-47A Protos-Pattern which is 54 Meters, or 176 feet tall. There's also the Type-29 we see half built in Halo Wars one on Arcadia and unlike the Type-47s it has to be built on site instead of deployed because of how big it is. And there's the Type-32 Sumda'te-pattern which is a middle ground between the two Type-47s in size and it's a dedicated AA Scarab outfitted with a gun comparable to the AA guns we see in Halo 3's The Storm level and it may or may not have the Excavation Beam like the other Scarabs. So imagine a mobile AA Position that can climb a mountain and melt a Leman Russ and imagine the sheer pain of dealing with that. The description on Halopedia only lists the Heavy Plasma Cannon but on the image show we can see it has at least one side mounted plasma turret of some type, one forward mounted plasma cannon above where the "head" is, and what is probably the Focus Cannon for that model. Oh, also the Locust has a Focus Cannon just like the Scarabs do and it's been shown that they can just scale up sheer cliffs in the mission before the Type-29 encounter in Halo Wars. Sadly it can't do that when the player is controlling them but that's likely for balancing reasons. The Banished even have their own type of Scarab they manufacture called the Barakuza Workshop Scarab but that's Banished gear so it probably shouldn't count.

[@jasonsaalbach5786]

One major problem with that when you said Ultra segmentum. It's not big enough the Covenant territory lore wise is that they control an entire Galactic Arm so size wise it's comparable to the Imperium.

[@Jingle12349]

Space marines would definitely have a hard time fighting against covenant, brutes themselves are as strong as elites physically, and elites are master tacticians literally trained from birth in war. Wars are not one by one on one battles, they are won with large multi faceted tactics involving many different units movements and equipment. and BRASS TAX there just are not enough space marines to make much of a difference, unless "plot armor".

[@christopherbravo1813]

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with every person in this comments section who knows what Elites are capable of and say Elites do have a pretty good chance against Space Marines *depending on chapter.* I don't care how much genetic engineering you've gone through, if you charge into Elites like a lunatic and your name isn't Angron you're getting fragged and bagged by Xeno scum. If you actually use ranged firepower, use strategy, or--Emperor forbid- *fight dirty,* your chances go up exponentially. Warhammer 40k isn't as strong as people claim it is, and that extends to the Astartes too. well, the classic ones, anyway. I have no idea how good the Primaris are.

[@starhammer5247]

From what I've researched, there is no difference. If they were an overall improvement, personally I'd say they're 50% better, but that still only gives them a 15 tonne lift force. Spartans, from the more recent calculations, have a lift force of roughly 16.5 tonnes in armour, 3.3 tonnes outside of it. The difference between Astartes and Spartans is that the Astartes armour is just armour. Spartan Armour is the other half to their whole.

[@christopherbravo1813]

@@starhammer5247 interesting.

[@morgoth4361]

Imagine a Thunderhammer slamming against a Gravity Hammer.

[@registeredwarcriminal980]

That's some metal gear rising type shit right there my guy

[@-TakingSomeLs]

@@registeredwarcriminal980 thor v kratos be like

[@deloreanrc]

The shockwave that would create would blast both wielders to heck and back if they even survive it!

[@septemberstarlight9362]

have you heard the good word of the needler? :P imagining a space marine being super combined by pink needles tearing through his suit and then fucking exploding is a pretty funny image haha.

[@MrPikaGammer]

The Blamite I don't think would pierce the armor, I mean it shatters against Spartan shields.

[@septemberstarlight9362]

@@MrPikaGammer unfortunately gameplay and lore are very different in a lot of aspects, needlers can tear through mjolnir pretty quickly.

[@MrPikaGammer]

@@septemberstarlight9362 in the lore we see both Spartan armor plating and shields deflect and shatter Blamite Needles, its when they are unshielded and hit in the body suit or repeatedly in the armor before it pierces entirely. Considering the Needler is pretty much just a Eldar Shattergun an Astarte's Ceramite armor would be able to take significant fire from a Needler without Super Combining.

[@ir0nleviathan577]

@@MrPikaGammer It wouldn’t be as difficult as you might think. If that Space Marine is also getting riddled with plasma shots, he’s gonna have more than a few weak spots in his armor a couple minutes into that fight. Combine that with the fact that it’s almost certainly the Grunts firing at him with both the plasma pistols and the needlers, and there’s a LOT of those little bastards, out of a full squad of Space Marines, at least a couple are going “BOOM” before that fight ends, especially if the Grunt-to-Space Marine ratio is the same as the typical Grunt-to-Spartan ratio.

[@MrPikaGammer]

@@ir0nleviathan577 the original prompt was just the Needler, the Needler alone wouldn't be great but if it was but one weapon attacking the Marine it of course would gain benefit.

[@primarchaether1569]

the AR the usual ODST weilds is not only cannonicly far more accurate than the games give credit, it's also stronger and, like the games, is a weapon capable of Actually dealing with just about anything especially with such an ABSURD ammo amount

[@kabob0077]

8:18 They also have some of the simplest names based off their initial buoyancy they are when they're born. Like Lighter Than Some, Prone to Drift, and Sometimes Sinks. There's one outlier though and that's Quick to Adjust who merged with New Mombasa's Superintendent AI's subroutine Vergil and now is called that.

[@kabob0077]

7:54 There's also the Prophet's Super Soldiers, the Prelates who are Genetically Enhanced San'Shyuum that can fight toe-to-toe with Spartan IIs, Brutes, and Elites when they dope themselves up and are equipped with Fighting Skins that self repair over time. In the case of one Prelate by the name Tem'Bhetek he had a suit with a hardlight emitter and an Anti-Gravity Belt that allowed him to do genuine Martial Arts Movie type shit, and I'm talk the type where the guys fly around and shit. Also, it's unclear if the stuff listed FOR the Combat Skin is standard issue or if Tem'Bhetek modified his so take that with a grain of salt but another named Prelate has what seems to be a double-bladed hardlight or plasma blade like Darth Maul's lightsaber so maybe it comes down to what the Prelate's mission is and what they're expected to fight or something, hell it could even be personal preference on the matter.

[@ntfoperative9432]

It’s pretty accurate to say Humanity didn’t win the war, they survived. The only reason the Covenant ultimately lost was because of the Civil War with the Sangheli

[@LegatusLucius1994]

Dude I love you but you got to understand the grunts are Imperial Guard and a chaos Marine got murdered by a Kraigman with a suicide grenade

[@John2r1]

Yep now replace that Krieg guardsmen with a few thousand chimpanzee , Goblin, crab things with plasma grenades and I mean a lot of them. Play the Halo games on legendary with all the skulls on and go charging head first into everything guns blazing see how many grenades you catch lol. I don't know where they store them but Unggoy aka Grunts carry a ton of grenades.

[@dozergames2395]

@@John2r1 i like to imagine the hump carries not only their favorite fart gas but that it also has a grenad3 despenser

[@dudebruh8534]

Yeah I think there's somewhere in the lore that explains a simple punch from a Grunt can vibe check any adult human. They may be little but holy sh*t their muscle density is insane.

[@jamesslong9688]

The doom slayer gains power as he kills demons so khorn would love him if he fell in his realm as he would get stronger as the slayer gained more power

[@averageeughenjoyer6429]

Canonically a spartan can lift twice the weight a astartes can

[@JsphCrrll]

If I remember the lore of spartans goes something like out of armor lifting 2 tons, and in armor lifting more or less 10 tons. Mark 6 armor increased chiefs strength my 5x, which made him way stronger than a single elite in 1 on 1 combat, and almost as strong as a brute. Mark 7 armor likely is even stronger.

[@John2r1]

The lasguns damage output isn't superior to the UNSCs weapons in general. It's actually comparable on that front due to the advancement in propellant technology. The MA5 and all other 7.62×51mm weapons fire armor piercing titanium or tungsten cored FMJ rounds at 905m/s or 2969.16 fps. which is within the velocity range of a .50 bmg such as the M107 sniper rifle. We also know the weight of these rounds which are M118 FMJ -AP. Which weighs 175 gr (11 g) . 11g at 905m/s at a range of 300m = 4,645 Newtons of force on impact. Splitting a typical concrete slab 11/2 inches thick actually takes about 1,900 newtons of force. So in terms of actual impact and damage the Lasgun and MA5 are comparable to each other. Where the Lasgun is superior is in terms of ammo supplies. A UNSC Marine is going to run out of ammo. The Guardsmen is not going to run out of ammo. As to the Space Marine vs Sangheili aka Elite. Well that really depends. Because Most Space Marines do not have shielding systems. Elites all have energy shielding . They also have the ability to use active camo which has the added ability to jam sensors. And are willing to use other species as bate so they can attack an Astartes from behind with an energy sword or plasma sword capable in lore of "cutting" through any material. Basically it's not above a Elite to cheat in combat. Their code of honor only extends to their species primarily. So your average Joe Space Marine yeah an Elite could take him down. Your hero Space Marine usually high enough rank to be awarded an Iron Halo yeah that would be more difficult. But there are only 1,000 chapters that by the codex that Gillyman is obviously enforcing are only permitted 1,000 Astartes. Putting their allowed number at 1,000,000 . The Elites are raised from their hatching to be warriors. And there are about 8.1 Billion of these xenos alone. Of course subject to change as birth rate varies. But yeah going melee with a individual who has trained from the time he could walk to be a warrior and kill others to advance in rank and status. Is well suicidal for a young Astartes. Remember Astartes or Space Marines can recieve their armor at as young as 18 years old. Sure training from as young as 10 years old does make a Space Marine an excellent warrior . But compared to a Elite who trained from litteral birth in combat. The younger Space Marines wouldn't have the experience to match an Elite. Elites in their 60s and 70s are considered to still be in their prime. They can live on average over 90 years and spend each day either training or fighting. This lifespan and Spartan life style and culture makes them extremely effective in combat. They got the nickname Elites from humans because normal humans couldn't match them. And yes if you do some research on the Spartans in halo and their augmentations you will realize where Bungie got the ideal from. Hint Spartans are basically Space Marines without the extra organs and acid spit. Their organs have however been augmented or completely replaced.

[@nobleman9393]

Spartans consistently kill whole groups of Elites, but An Astartes don't stand a chance against An Elite?

[@John2r1]

@@nobleman9393 your average Astartes is quite literally wearing the equivalent of the MJOLNIR gen 1 mk 4 armor . And given 1 bolt pistol, 1 bolter ,2 frag and Krak grenades and a combat knife . He's wearing unshielded armor against a plasma wielding opponent who is wearing better armor with shielding and can literally be using any Covenant small arm including a fuel rod canon. Which for those who don't know is a shoulder fired anti armor weapon that fires 38 mm radioactive high explosives aka miniature dirty bombs. 38mm = 1.49 Caliber. A standard Space Marine or Astartes can and have been killed by the following infantry weapons.. 1.Bolter aka 19mm Rpg. 2. Lasguns . 3. Autoguns. 4. Primitive Spike fall traps, 5. Swords and Spears . Which was a primitive Spears to the throat of a named character. So Astartes have been killed by lower tech stuff than a Sangheili aka Elite is likely to be carrying. As much as the Astartes are hyped up by your friend who got you into the game and series. There are plenty of examples in lore of Astartes being killed . Spartans where effective mainly because they where trained and educated to be extremely adaptive. Because they where not originally mentioned to be the front line. Spartans where ment to go behind enemy likes and cause as much havok as possible. An Astartes might kill a grunt with a fuel rod canon , kick it a side and move on. A Spartan is going to walk up look at the grunt , see the fuel rod cannon. Pick it up , loot the grunt for ammo and then go about killing it's friends with the fuel rod cannon recently acquired. Astartes are not that tactically flexible and religious bs keeps most from taking the risk. So the inflexibility of your average Joe Astartes will end up getting Astartes killed . Especially when you consider that their version of honor is to attempt dropping straight into the middle of the enemy forces and fight their way through. The problems with that are many . But the two primary problems are that the Covenant have AA weapons most of them firing plasma. And the core of the Covenant army is where your average Joe Astartes runs into xenos commanders like the Arbiter and Brute Warmaster Atriox as well as the most experienced fighters on the battlefield. And is quickly killed. So it's a lack of tactical flexibility mixed with the fact that most if the tech like Iron Halos are rare relics that are reserved for higher ranking Astartes. So your average Joe Astartes is basically being given a tooth pick to go kill a grizzly bear. Not going to be easy and yes Astartes will be killed in the process. Hazard of the job.

[@John2r1]

@@nobleman9393 PS do note that the simple fact that Astartes standard armor is equal to MJOLNIR gen 1 mk4 does mean that it is in theory possible for an Astartes to use the most recent Gen 3 version if it where made available to them. Because many of their augmentations are in analog to those of Spartan 2s. Which are the best of the Spartans. Unfortunately for the Imperium as was the case for the UNSC . There are not enough of them to make a difference on the larger scale. And the Covenant when faced with say an entire chapter of Astartes. The Covenant will simply glass them and move on. Basically their sense of honor only extends to themselves and their species. Against humans especially Astartes who remind them of the Demons aka Spartans that they fought before. That honor goes out the window. And they start setting ambushes , capturing humans that may know about the program that creates Astartes and torturing them for information. An Astartes in Aqula armor maybe tough. But a Astartes Scout isn't in power armor and are usually sent in first. Their also not that tough when having their nerves are being burnt via electrical surges through their nervous system. The Covenant are sadistic towards their enemies. They rarely take captives and when they do its to torture then kill and eat them. Not always in that order. Brutes are known to let humans escape only to hunt them down and rip them apart and eat them alive. For entertainment.

[@nobleman9393]

@@John2r1 Spartans are superior in tactics? let's see, They run at their enemies like idiots many times, jump into middle of a Battle for no reason, they don't leave anybody to guard the entrance when they enter a building and UNSC always gives them shitty weapons so it isn't suprising that they use covenant guns. All the ways that can kill an Astartes you listed would kill an Elite as well (Except easier)

[@John2r1]

@@nobleman9393 The Elites also use active camo. The Spartans where more often than not fighting defensively in areas where their armors systems could hack all camera's in the area. And when operating behind enemy lines as a small team of 4 to 6. Leaving one person to watch a door isn't all that useful when fighting enemies who use active camo. Which renders them virtually invisible. It's just leaving one guy to get killed first. And you obviously never read the books because what Spartans do when entering a building is called room clearing. We do this same tactic today. Their not entering a single room they are moving through a building room by room. This means the last guy is watching the rear of the team as it's moving. I'm also going to make the assumption that you have no military or law enforcement specifically swat team experience. In any case moving as a team room to room is still a better tactic than yelling "FOR THE EMPEROR " at the top of ones lungs and charging a gun emplacement head on.

[@ir0nleviathan577]

I’d like to point out, Master Chief and the Arbiter have both fought and killed things stronger than themselves… many times. Also, “not a prayer”, active camouflage, energy swords, plasma grenades and plasma rifles/carbines all being used by a group of aliens that spend most of their lives learning how to fight… an Elite could absolutely crush a Space Marine in single combat. Their tactics and equipment are genuinely better in way too many ways to just ignore because “the Space Marines are Space Marines”. Would it be a guaranteed victory for the Elite every time, no, but it’s a hell of a lot closer fight than most 40K fans would have you believe.

[@ssfbob456]

I also hate the "they have hundreds of years of experience" argument. If you fight the same things for hundreds of years, fantastic, you're going to get very good at fighting those things, but when something new pips up its going to be a serious problem if none of the strategies you've personally used for centuries are a hard counter to that new thing. The Space Marines are very good at fighting things that throw themselves aghast them hard, but the Covenant fight very intelligently and adapt their strategies quickly. Before people judge their effectiveness they really should look I to what the Covenant is capable of when you're not playing a game where you're supposed to win. In reality the UNSC rarely did well on the ground. Spartans helped a lot, and more engagements were won with them than without, but most of the time it was a moot point because they'd rather glass the planet than let the UNSC win, even in the presence of Forerunner artifacts as we saw on Reach.

[@hermeister3870]

@@ssfbob456 old comment but you also add the fact that most non main character/ ranked marines are NOT in the hundreds of years of service/ experience, service studs wouldn't be special if that was the case ahah. elites are also very long lived, the arbiter (current one) is noted as being very young for his kind and he is around 80 years old, experience wise i frankly don't believe elites are far removed from marines and they are more flexible as well.

[@danguinius3654]

Not really. We see Spartan 2s taking on multiple elites on their own, and SMs are meant to be what spartan 2s are but even more deadly. The equipment of marines is highly underestimated, so no, they wouldnt be outmatched by an elite.

[@ir0nleviathan577]

@@danguinius3654 yes they would, almost every weapon they use is a plasma weapon… you know, the very thing Space Marines use against other Space Marines, and that’s not even mentioning the fact that unlike the Space Marine’s weapons, the Covenant’s weapons don’t just randomly explode in their hands. Unless you put them up against the least experienced Elites, the Space Marines would get bodied by the Covenant in direct combat a majority of the time just from the nature of their weapons. If the damn Tau can not only survive but win fights with the Space Marines, then the Covenant absolutely could.

[@danguinius3654]

@@ir0nleviathan577 i smell salt 🤓

[@tribaldragon-vids9373]

keep in mind that in halo spartans have energy shields while space marines don't, in summary plasma weapons go boom

[@cihatergun-y8i]

there are over 30 types of terminator armor. the ones you are referring to are standard geared marines. but a terminator armor is different, there are versions of them that can simultaneously fight and destroy a tank battalion an infantry regiment and a small air force ALL AT THE SAME TIME without taking any damage more than a paint scratch.

[@tribaldragon-vids9373]

fair enough@@cihatergun-y8i

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

Up to 5:00 it seems like the Tau already fullfil the bulk of those roles. Will keep watching.

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

They are not too far from hyper religious Tau. Plasma weapons, alien coalition. They are more compelling though, with a lot more going on, and they fit the setting better.

[@afanwithtoomuchtime4375]

@@Ambulatory_Viscount Thank you! I'll keep that in mind if I need some Halo lore!

[@hulguntristan6268]

Love your work

[@norsehorse84]

@@afanwithtoomuchtime4375 If GW quit fellating over Space Marines for 40k and actually do stuff with 95% of the setting, they could make the Tau a 40k Covenant equivalent.

[@nergalrior7841]

Woo, yea! I really wanted you to see this one because this was interesting. Wanted your take on it.

[@astroboy6515]

I just thought of an analogy regarding Space Marines vs Covenant: Traitor legions vs Loyalist in the Horus Heresy! The Traitor Legions were dangerous, but mostly as psychopathic berserkers and sadists. The Loyalists still had problems from this, of course, but with enough firepower and logical planning they managed to turn the tide. If Imperial Space Marines just go in like khornate berserkers they will kill alot of aliens, but only so many before someone uses their head and starts changing the situation through strategy.

[@shogunender8752]

I feel like they would work but that’s basically how the tau was supposed to be. A collection of aliens that are pointed towards one goal and have an advanced society because of the lack of discord in the tau empire. Sure there is some stuff like the whole ethereal brainwashing stuff but I still enjoy the tau cause of the use of drones to help the units and mostly love the breachers as well as the stealth battlesuits which is basically all I’d use. Hammerheads devil fish and maybe the 8 as well since I’m not into Gundams in warhammer just would like some cool characters to use as hq/ warlords

[@TheNaturalnuke]

Kroot are probably somewhere between Jackals and Elites in all aspects, hit and run hunters not soldiers, but they can body a human in melee just like an elite.

[@hailarwotanaz5848]

Elites are just so awesome, the holy knights of the covenant

[@hermeister3870]

jackals will absolutely fuck up normal humans in melee their talons and reflexes coupled with a non negligible size advantage allows them to body in cqc, a jackal's talon is sharp and long enough to threaten a marine even with their titanium A armour plates. hell jackals'melee attacks do a good amount of damage to SPARTANS in recent halo games (not shield destroying but still about 2/3 of it, same for grunts by the way reminder that grunts can one-arm heavy weapons and jump 5 metres without a running start and have a full body covered in hard chitin and claws that have on record eviscerated human combatants or clobered them to death)

[@Shadowkiller-dq2ju]

Bro is getting triggered that his favorite universe isn’t op

[@skybussey6147]

Remember that master chief was made using inhumane ways to make him as strong. 3 Spartans killed by 1 elite might be gen 4 the ones who use the suit exclusively and chief is as strong as a brute at his best with all the reaction time thats probably on par with a space marine not surpassing but good enough to put up a good fight.

[@rhyderleming5851]

The Spartans react at around the speed of light, they have metal wired into their nervous system, and you can bet that the energy shield will make quite the difference seeing it can absorb multiple plasma shots

[@LordFinai]

I really feel it should be noted that if you score a headshot on a space marine while burning out a lasgun you will kill that space marine, there's an entire scene in one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books where a the Ghosts use this tactic to kill off a squad of chaos space marines. Elites vs. space marines is not a one sided fight in favor of the space marines

[@zombiedalekweck2243]

I don't know if someone said this, but the Covenant is an empire located mainly in Orions Arm and partially Sagittarius Arm. People REALLY overestimate how big the Covenant is. It's legit just MAINLY in a region in MAINLY ONE galaxy. Granted, they are probably 10,000's to 500,000's or above worlds strong, just not... HALF THE GALAXY LEVEL STRONG. They're a strong faction nevertheless and don't need the nerd emoji thing of having half a galaxy to take down 800 hundred worlds (The UNSC isn't even 1,000 worlds and if they are they are barely over it). Edit: Orions' arm ALONE is estimated to have 800 million stars, which is a decent amount to say the Covenant and humanity could live in without encountering each other for a bit.

[@Gearshoot]

12:10 the MA5C fires 7.62x51. I believe that in lore (I don’t own anything for 40K, this is what I’ve been told) the lasgun is comparable to the autogun, which also appears to fire 7.62x??. Granted, the lasgun is probably at its lowest setting for that to be true.

[@supersaiyandiclonius3056]

A Plasma Pistol would be a Tau gun against a Space Marine...but a Needler would chew through ceramite and explode.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

I think you underestimate covenant plasma. Even the humble plasma pistol has aim assist and EMPs. Lazgun? EMP. Vehicle? EMP (or in lore circuit fry). Astardes Armor? (Plausible EMP). Astardes Robocop on life Suport? That’s a high value instant kill my friend. Iron Halo? Popped. Oh and they don’t have to be reloaded for days cause convent plasma is just that efficient in lore. There’s a video wear this guy compares the surface Temperature of a “small star” 4k plasma lore 2,000-3,500K vs covenant lore being 3000K degrees and they are practically the same assuming your talking about a red dwarfs Star in 4k lore and Empire wasn’t exaggerating their specs or being metaphorical as they are bound to do. Can you imagine having your mass empire army get their guns and vehicles short circuited by a mass army of goofing grunts fortnight dancing? Like you could be disingenuous and scale 4k to a white dwarf but that’s not really a “traditional small star” it’s more like ultra-violent dead remains of a once super massive star. In Halo Hell Jumpers Comic a hell jumper overcharges a plasma pistol shot to melt through a Ariel Forerunner complex door. Now even though forunner doors are made of super alloy I think we can low ball it by stating a charged plasma bolt can probably melt just about any alloy you can think of. “The two ODSTs, Kojo Agu and Taylor H. Miles eventually succeeded in evading the laser traps by carefully passing over them and then melting the door with an overcharged shot from a plasma pistol.” Halo wiki halo.fandom.com/wiki/Ariel_Forerunner_complex

[@argeltalthecustodiankiller6552]

Not really 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡

[@kyosokutai]

@@wastelesslearning1245 You are aware that nearly all military grade electronics are shielded against such a simple trick as "EMP"s even *today*, right.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

@@kyosokutai as I am sure your aware the Tau canonically EMP their opponents effectively as I am also sure you are aware 40k is hardly a realistic or consistent universe.

[@GiRR007]

Side note Space marine's are stronger and more durable but spartans are faster. Also I'm pretty sure the elites aren't stronger than Spartan's, maybe the brutes are but at that point you are talking about creatures comparable to space marines.

[@starhammer5247]

Brutes are stronger. Chief got his shit slapped by one at one point in the books. And in the latest game, he got his shit fucking stomped by one. Granted, that one took on the entirety of Red Team but still. Elites are just as strong as Spartans are, Spartans are just smarter. And for Brutes, in-lore, they can survive getting rammed by Warthogs and only breaking a leg in the process.

[@hermeister3870]

without armour elites are stronger by a large margin and with armour its about even, the combat harness of elites are mass produced mid end power armour with shielding that tanks one or two close grenade hits but they arent as strength enhancing as mjolnir. now here's a fun fact: elites in terms of mass and strength come up on the low end of astartes scaling for the average elite. now one on one a space marine would win i'd say 8.5/10 times but here's the thing though there's 1 million space marines there's dozens of billions of elites and eash one of them at baseline can fend off an astartes in a one on one for a while and isnt so far below one physically that melee would be a game over immediately. its also worth noting elites naturally have bullshit multiple organ backups, like they have two hearts by default, not exactly super noteworthy in a fight but i find it funny nonetheless. and now i have to say elites are below 3 known covenant infantry species at baseline: brutes absolutely body elites and spartans in melee and are several times stronger, the stronger brutes can tear a hunter in half if they manage a grapple (thats the strongest ones but the fact its doable is nuts) and hunters are well they have capital grade armour plating and said plating is durable enough to survive forerunner weapons for a good while in lore, they also vastly outclass astartes in physical stats and mass and their reflexes and speed are not far off its just their doctrine is more defensive, they absolutely can run down your ass (especially noticeable ingame in halo 5 and infinite when you kill one of the two and it almost keeps up with full speed grappling and dashing chief, also their projectiles depending on themodel have tracking) if the average non plot armoured space marine gets in melee range of a hunter 9/10 you'll end up with one less space marine after one smash of an arm and shield heavier than said space marine going at an appreciable speed directly on their cranium since they also are larger than terminators. the weak spots in the armour in a good amount of cases are gameplay balancing and armour for said joints do exist even ingame in several of the models f hunter armours. this is baseline hunters, hunter captains god forbid goliaths or higher ranking ones would fuck up a space marine just with stat mismatch its not even funny. last point on the hunters, they can straight up yeet projectile larger than 50bmg with a swat of their shield, i wont lie i'm not sure if they can do it to bolter rounds but that would be hilarious. the third ones are sharkoi and those would be a wildcard because they are barely sapient and at beast level fighting so a good amount of marines would absolutely outsmart them...until you take into account those fuckers are large and tanky enough to one punch mantises and could stand at eye level with an imperial knight. covenant ground forces wouldnt be super fucked against astartes in any way

[@dankstank110]

Both brutes and elites are strong enough to carry Spartans the size of Jorge with one hand and have an impressive lifting strength and could certainly pummel anything that isn't a space Marines with one hand brute on the other hand are just stronger and smarter orcs pretty sure a brute would be comparable to a space marine

[@MrPikaGammer]

@@hermeister3870 The Arbiter was overpowered by Spartan Jai and would have been killed by him in hand to hand combat if it wasn't for backup.

[@MrPikaGammer]

@@starhammer5247 The average Elite is just ever so slightly weaker than the average Spartan.

[@darkinnovator2479]

Have the Covenant be in Ultima Segmentum, maybe it'll get Guilliman and his blueberries so very annoyed. Of course, give the Lion a Legion and it'll be done within about a year. The Covenant is a real challenge to the Imperium, but it also depends on who and what is sent against them. I don't rule out the possibility of a Primarch and their Legion wiping out the equivalent of the Covenant in the Great Crusade.

[@MrPikaGammer]

So something you got wrong here is that Spartans do have the reaction time of Space Marines being able to slap missiles out of the sky and are stronger than the average Elite.

[@John2r1]

Yep hence the Elites use of stealth and stabbing them in the back with a 4ft long lightsabor basically lol.

[@Streygenmoment]

On the topic of the Covenant vs Space Marines, the way the covenant would want to deal with them before the Space Marine could get into melee range. If you let a space marine get into chainsaw range, you've lost unless the one true god Matt Ward is writing your character. Also, Tau weaponry can take out a space marine at range, its the issue that somehow the Space Marines get into melee range, and the Tau don't have much in the way of Melee damage lol

[@GhostBear3067]

A lot of fan arguments about who beats who between franchises often stays focused on a single battle rather than figuring out an entire war.

[@ssfbob456]

I will say that the reaction times of Spartans, particularly the 2s, is pretty insane. They operated in what was reffered to as "Spartan time" because their reaction speeds were so fast that they could watch and react to bullets flying in mid-air. And when you add in MJOLNIR armor it gets jacked up even further. Even with their insane reaction time, Master Chief nearly knocked himself out trying to salute because the armor reacted so much faster than he was used to.

[@ericmitchell6545]

Covenant vs Tau would be a fun watch

[@k0rf3on6]

Religious Zelotism vs Ideological Fanaticism

[@darthjekyll3648]

@@k0rf3on6 you mean hummie vs Tau?

[@RadiationEnthusiast282]

Most intense Theist and atheist match up

[@jedediahcoulbourne1791]

One thing I'd like to point out is that we don't have any clue what would happen if the Covies were in the 40k world from a psycher stand point. For a while the Tau weren't anything in the warp and now they have that wide blue greater good Buddha floating around side eying hem so i think if the Covies get souls in the same way everyine else does then they could eventually leave an imprint on the warp

[@C-OBrien]

the covenant could be a really cool side faction, they don't have the scale to fight the imperium or the tech to fight necrons but I could see them being really good as potential collaborators in resistance to the tyranids

[@ziegfeld4131]

I would love to see the USMC Elite partnership as a faction in 40k Elites in Power Armor

[@dantefortheparty]

Ok so a few things. Master Chief is more then on par with a space marine. He can react to things immediately to the point that Outsiders look at it as precog known as Spartan Time. He can throw a punch so fast that a normal human can't even see him move. He has flipped 66 ton tanks over with ease and punched holes clean through titanium floor plates. He would be able to fight a space marine medium difficulty. Also as to your Elites statement is in Halo Spartan 2s(which is Master Chief) are often depicted as on par strength wise to Elites as they often stalemate while grappling.

[@Nickelback8469]

One regular smurf against MC would be really tough but possible for MC. But the difference between the two universes is that MC is basically alone and the Space Marines are in the tens or hundreds of thousands

[@dantefortheparty]

@@Nickelback8469 true but one to one was my point. The fact the S2s are dying out is something else

[@lennardchurch8483]

40k's most comparable unit to a Spartan 2 would be the Vindicare Assassin, not the Space Marine. Spartans were designed to be assassins, not bullet sponges. Their armor and shields are intended to help them survive as they make use of cover as they utilize a variety of weaponry to eliminate their targets to accomplish their objectives.

[@higrunt9844]

@@lennardchurch8483 Not exactly assassins but not any normal force

[@John2r1]

@@higrunt9844 Training wise he's right. Biogically they are kind-of like a combination of Astartes and Skittarii due to the fact that most of their biological augmentations are identical to those of a Astartes. And Spartans have cybernetic augmentations, genetic , biomechanical and chemical augmentations to round out the set. So it's like if an Astartes decided to become an assassin. Now in terms of raw strength MC is not equal to an Astartes. However there are larger Spartan 2s who are equal to Astartes. Because strength scales by size and accumulation aka you have to put in the work to be strong. Most Astartes I've seen are about the size of Jorge-052 unarmored. Which is to say 7ft 4in tall and makes André the Giant look small. MJOLNIR Armor increases the Spartans height. Jorge-052 in armor is 8ft tall. And nearly 2 tons . Not a small guy. Neither are Astartes. With that said on the short side Captain Titus is 7ft 2in tall in armor.

[@Blazegraze12]

You're getting the elites mixed up with brutes, it was not an elite that took on 3 spartan IIs it was a brute.

[@MattSipka]

The scariest thing about scarabs are the fact we never really see one truly meant for combat, they were built for excavations.

[@madmohawk6560]

I'm just gonna say compared to everything in 40k the covenant ARE the most normal seeming

[@damackabet.4611]

The covenant are just as big assholes, they glassed the grunts home world in response to a rebellion by the grunts because one of their member species was sterilizing male grunts(they have an actual name it’s just too hard to remember how to spell the grunts real name). Their war against humanity is to exterminate them because they threaten the foundations of their religion. Their goal unknown to them was to fire a super weapon known as the halo rings that would eradicate pretty much all species in the universe. So that’s pretty similar to imperium in that imperium uses lost human technology from past that they don’t always understand, the covenant does the same with forerunner tech as well as worship forerunner stuff. Also they don’t consider all member species to be equal as well, with some being above others in the hierarchy. So I’d say their not too far off from imperium in terms of what they will do. That said their closer to the tau with some imperial inclinations being such as their more prone to genocide than tau I would say.

[@cegesh1459]

That's what 40K has the Tau for. Sadly their auxiliaries aren't really used in such a way, it enough. It could be really cool, especialy using a lot more of their auxiliaries and making models for them. In fact the Tau have a lot more races in their empire. Rather cool and interesting video though. I agree the Covenant would fit right in to 40K. Let's ses what other takes he has. I disagree with you in the Kroot. In Canon they are stronger, better and tuffer than humans. They also got a stats update.

[@reinmarren9959]

Would it be far fetched to say that some of the Eldar would join forces either for a grander scheme or temporarily with the Covenant? Even the prophets know that they can’t make progress without help. It’s a nice idea at least.

[@cinnabarmanx4214]

Hey btw PancreasNoWork finally made his sequel video to this putting the Forerunners in 40k, you should definitely do a reaction video to it as well.

[@Lmaokekw975]

25:04 the face of a man who shit a brick ^^

[@xytanvadum109]

This is why i personally hate warhammer lore and (some) fans, the lore is from what I've seen is all over the place with exaggerations while the general lore states otherwise. While fans think space marines or in one discussion primarchs are multiversal and higher. Some thinking the fucking emperor is outerversal (with no feats that actually state things or imply dor that matter) warhammer has some REALLY cool crap but its countered by people and exaggeration sometimes.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

Let's not forget that the 40k authors can't math either, they fail at logistics through Ciaphus' book stating a few hundred thousand rounds of artillery is good for the month when the French ate through that in half a day during the Great War, and thats just on a portion of their front. It's tough to take 40k seriously as a science fiction/fantasy setting when even basic logistics isn't even acknowledged

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

My big example is that the foundational document of the Covenant is a thing called the Writ of Union, and EVERY SINGLE LINE of it we have would fit PERFECTLY into 40k. It goes: "All who walk the blessed path shall find salvation, even in death. Out of darkness, these blades will light our way. Glory and honour guide our ascension. On the blood of our fathers, on the blood of our sons. The true devotee honors our name with deeds, not words. Victory is secured not from the throne, but from the front lines. With this sacrament of blood, we will journey into the divine beyond!"

[@chibipotate]

Yeah... Elites would be a good match up... As A SPECIES, Not so much individual warriors, That would fall to the higher ranked, Higher skilled guys like the Silent Shadow, The Covenant wouldnt win engagements like that, They might inflict a heck-ton of casualties enough to call it a draw instead of a full loss, But its not going to be anything like a full victory, Im guessing most of these battles would go Marines Drop In Few Initial Skirmishes More Covenant Forces Come in to pin them down Covenant Ships Glass that part of the continent before the Marines can **Hopefully** Escape Repeat And then a loss likely for the Covenant when the Space Battle begins since while not a direct Honeycomb design, Imperial and Marine ships can still take a heck of a beating because of just how many layers and empty space they have.

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

in space combat yea the covenant would loose just because they have large ships doesn't mean they can match the firepower there only real contender is the glass canon on the bottom

[@mariobadia4553]

@@YOGI-kb9tg not really when since not only are Covenant ships huge but they also their space travel 100 I'm safer since they're not traveling through hell

[@josepigroyper370]

Master chief sinks way faster than a normal human because he’s been modified and is in a like 1000 pound suit. He is stronger than the elite season probably not stronger than a brute but it’s a bottom part and elite now a different spot in types of different strengths to Spartan three, can I be a little weaker than a elite or etc. but no, Spartan is basically a space marine, except for not as big and more human resembling now the main difference is that by the time the human coven were started, they were less than 100 Spartan 2s if I remember right and they weren’t that many more than 1-2 thousand Spartan 3 for the whole human covenant war

[@RadiationEnthusiast282]

Totally disagree about how two grunt will just blow up the space marine drop pod part, first the 40k drop pod is good armored and not as fragile as the Halo one, second the drop pod is very fast (about 400 m/s ) so the grunt can only spray and pray.

[@psykology9299]

PNW's vids are pretty based, like yea 40k is OP but the covies use technology from a race that ruled an entire galaxy and that race was created by a bunch of dudes who could throw entire galaxies as easily as a space faring civilisation could throw asteroids

[@fanficlover]

In regards to your monolgue near the end, it seems as though you missed his actual arguments past his initial statement.

[@charlesmorton9845]

id love to see a space marine argue with an elite over who's the heretics.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

40K is the one setting where I wouldn't feel bad about the Covenant trying to wipe out humanity. I mean, just look at the Imperium.

[@LegatusLucius1994]

LOL closer than that just outside the Orion arm you'll find the Covenant

[@rhyderleming5851]

I also have to disagree with any points made about the brute taking on 3 Spartans, because, as is already a meme in the war hammer community, named characters do things that make no sense all the time, such as a VERY skilled and elite brute taking on 3 Spartans at the same time

[@Darthnova-rd9nk]

Spartans have faster reactions times then space marines. In a one vs one a Spartan is fast, more mobile, usually better tactics, with higher reaction. The space marine has strength in suit easy while out of suit it closer still in the marines favor. And durability no one shot will take the marine out (unless spartan laser because a full power shot close enough kill covenant light cruisers) and will probably be able to land a devastating hit. However it would more be a 3-5 on one in the marines favor. Or a 20 on 5 which is not great.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Doesn't tau guns hurt a lot when they connect? Same princibal.

[@dropbear8579]

To make it legally different they could have them as refugees that have banded together after their worlds were purged during the great Crusade coming back to get revenge

[@sumoking3002]

The covenant is already in 40K, it's just they're called the Inquisition and the UNSC is "every alien, demon or colony with the wrong colour flag"

[@MrPikaGammer]

The Covenant are the Tau, a collection of honor bound aliens bent on bringing the galaxy under the rule of their shady leaders.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

Bro shat bricks at the end

[@wdm276]

Covenent weapons are powerful, true, but we always underestimate the humble Lasgun. Covenent Armor and shields DO eventually fail against UNSC bullets. Now take the Lasgun. The standard weapon of the guard. It can fire a beam which is described to strike with the force to blow limbs with a single shot. It would take at best 1-2 shots to deplete elite shields 1-2 more to tear through their Armor. Now give that weapon to 1000s of men firing in unison.

[@JsphCrrll]

Bro it takes the average marine 2 mags from an AR to kill a single elite minor.

[@John2r1]

​@JsphCrrll Not an AR. It's a MA5 usually. And it's a 7.62x51mm M118 Nato rounds being fired at 905m/s.

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

The kroot are pretty strong the problem is that you got only a few million of them total

[@forkittens]

now we just have to wait for microsoft to buy up GW to make it happen.

[@demonic_myst4503]

Tbh id love see somthibg like the covenent absorbe the main tau empire or replace them a more mirror of imperium a religous group of aliens that isnt so diplomatic

[@jacobstewart1950]

Prelates the prophets attempt at Spartans

[@Nozomivamp]

I think out of armor the original spartans vs a space marine it would be a fair fight. In armor space marines would probably win but they dont have overshields which would be a huge boon on spartans side but would probably overload with one or two shots of the bolter. Spartan weapons are garbage, wouldn't even scratch the paint on space marine armor.

[@hbsavage0387]

Well depends on the weapon. Base weapons fuck yea they ain’t doing anything but the heavy weapons are were it gets interesting. The rocket launcher in Halo is definitely gonna take a quite a few shots to kill a space marine and this goes for the Hydra and grenade launcher as well. The hand held rail gun would definitely be able to put down a space marine but not in one shot it would have to be 2-5 depending on where the shots hit. The Spartan laser would fuck up a space marine. The sniper rifle in Halo could probably kill a Space Marine in one hit but that’s with a very proficient marksman and knowledge on space marines. The chain gun that are on Warthogs could wear down and eventually kill a space marine but that is if the Spartan is killed during that process. Now the one thing I will say about the regular Spartan weapons is the fact that those weapons can be converted to use energy based projectiles and energy based bayonets this can give them enough stopping power to take down a space marine but these aren’t common enough to warrant it as a main point of contention because it’s comparing premium gear and that kinda renders that point moot.

[@starhammer5247]

Space Marine armour doesn't enhance them in any way, shape or form barring Terminator armour. Spartan Armour enhances everything from reaction time to strength. Spartan Armour is also roughly as thick as a Sherman tanks armour and is made of Titanium A which is significantly stronger than any known steel alloy. Spartan Shielding is also capable of tanking a grenade blast. You should also remember that despite all of the hype surrounding the Bolter, it was notoriously shit against armoured opponents. Spartan Laser is roughly equal to a Lascannon seeing as it one-shots most vehicles and the M99 Stanchion is a handheld railgun on steroids able to blast through multiple walls of concrete and turn a guy into paste in that order, then it has a roughly equal and more portable variant known as The Railgun.

[@LordFinai]

The Halo Magnum is basically a mini bolter that's also probably better at piercing armor. Though, if I'm being honest, the Magnum in Halo is kind of out of place since it feels like it way to strong to be just a sidearm with the only explanation I can think of being that it would likely be expensive to manufacture the rounds. I think the only things that it's missing when compared to the bolter is that it's size limits its armor piercing capabilities, it isn't rocket propelled, and it isn't wielded by super solders from a series that swears are from a collapsing empire but can't help themselves from writing stories where said collapsing empire wins every engagement that isn't meant to move the plot forward. Also the Guard have bigger balls than any Space Marine does and that includes the female Guard regiments.

[@kabob0077]

6:01 _Those fuckin' birds..._ 6:28 Since a Scarab (Or at least some patterns of them) are piloted by super colonies of Lekgolo Worms you can call them Super Heavy Infantry if you want to be insane about it. Yes, the Scarabs in Reach and Halo 3 are essentially Big Hunter Power Armor. 6:57 Oh just you wait if you haven't fought them already, in Halo 2 they're SUPER spongey and they hit like damn train on Heroic. The Energy Sword, which kills just about everything in one hit, takes multiple swings to down one of them. They are BUSTEED.

[@FinallyAlone]

10:23 Ha! Chief.

[@shadowdevil126]

If the krute are barely better than humans then they stand absolutely no chance against any species within the covenant except the engineers iirc the grunts are 3 times stronger that the average man and are able to effortlessly rip us apart with their bare handed

[@John2r1]

UNSC Marines are slightly augmented humans . And one of them wearing armor and using a 20cm combat knife got ripped apart in a mater of seconds.

[@nobleman9393]

An average Kroot is stronger and faster than an average Guardsman, stronger Kroots can compete with Eldar warriors and Space Marines.

[@robertwalker7454]

The ones in the covenant I would say could probably match a space Marines strength is a boot especially a brute chieftain

[@LoneWolf20213]

i'm going to say something the old man would hate, THIS, this is what the tau should have been a race that is relatively normal to highlight just how bad shit insane the setting of 40k is, and this is how they should have been presented

[@theexistentialnihilist2070]

PancreasNoWork also has a pretty big hateboner for the Space Wolves so that also probably plays a part in his analysis.

[@YOGI-kb9tg]

hes also not exactly wrong hate boner or not the use saying space marines win because is also stupid they arnt immortal fast as lightning super soldiers that can lift titans. they are still super soldiers but not impossible to kill you forget generalist cults can take down marines even standard guardsmen with lasguns just take away the humans and put 20 grunts all wielding plasma guns and fuel rods with another 10 grunts sprinting at you with plasma grenades in there hands.

[@99onone50]

Tau weapons are not mostly plasma.

[@warbossdakka6107]

I wonder how the banished would do in the 40k universe

[@warbossdakka6107]

Also how effective would the silent shadow be in 40k

[@jare3459]

we already got the covenant they call the Tau

[@ShineyFace1337]

The only thing similar between the tau empire and the covenant is that they both are made up of multiple species and having high tech, but every member of the covenant would tear a normal human soldier limb from limb, unlike the tau themselves

[@CaptainPilipinas]

yes. a little bit. except the latter, they are of a single race. unlike the MULTIPLE members of that covenant empire's. (kind of the same ironic realization when speaking of the ecumene forerunners', back in the halo [Grape] and galaxy. meanwhile, back in bungo's current franchise there is also a similarly long-extinguished faction called the Amiable ecumene. except backwards this time: they are MULTIPLE, unlike that SINGLE race-ruling wmpire that are the ecumene forerunners').

[@CaptainPilipinas]

@@ShineyFace1337 define 'multiple *races* ' from that tau race?

[@elijahaitaok8624]

The tau wishes

[@norsehorse84]

@@CaptainPilipinas Pretty sure there's a whole list. The reason it seems unbelievable is because GW or the fanbase (or both) despise anything that isn't a Space Marine, so they won't flesh them out properly any time soon if at all.

[@AnthonyDaFox]

The elites would beat the WorldEaters asses.

[@michaelmerino5642]

The ending point is not true the Spartans can lift 6600pls while the space marines can lift 6000pls and when it comes to reacting tim it was 15ms for space marines and for spartans it was 5ms and they had shield on there amor with I don't need to tell you if you play the games but there are why more space marines then spartans

[@potatokingjack6870]

I don’t agree that marine factions that use close combat a lot would get shit on, since the that’s basically them against the tau, it won’t be a easy fight while the imperial navy is comparable and maybe a bit stronger. Plasma weapons would veary against the imperium, and they can’t just glass everything like against the UNSC since they have anti ship weapons and void shields

[@TheMarlz2]

doomslayer is doom, not halo lmao

[@2ndlegend125]

I agree and disagree with both of you on the SM v Covenant. It would really depend on which chapter but also how many soldiers there are on each side and what weapons we're giving each side. If we're talking about 10 SM with chainsaw swords v 100 Elites with the whole covenant arsenal? 100 elites will eventually kill the SM but they'll likely lose a lot of fucking Elites. If a chapter is gonna declare a crusade against the Covenant, the Covenant will be seriously fucked depending on the chapter. Ultramarine with Guilliman back. The covenant is not long for this universe. Black templars? Sorry they may be brain dead but not only are the probably one of the best SM force when It comes to space battles but there is also a fuck ton more of them than any other chapter. If the BT can focus the entire might of their chapter on the Covies then the covenant might just be done for. If more primarchs come back this goes even worse. the Covies don't have anything except maybe a hunter that can go 1v1 against a space Marine and like wise if both sides are on an equal footing ie 5 SM w/ Chainsaw swords vs 5 Brutes with Gravity hammers then SMs will win everytime no matter what chapter we talking about. But in war nothing is ever balanced and the covenant will strategize accordingly. Once they figure out how SMs/various chapters operate they will create strategies to beat them while the SM are rarely flexible in strategy. It would always take a lot but the covenant would get plenty of SM kills.

[@starhammer5247]

You are really underselling the power of each species. According to the in-lore numbers of both Space Marines and Spartans, the two are relatively even in terms of physical capabilities and armour protection as well as intellect, though, the Space Marine, on average, provided they aren't something like the Ravenguard or an Ultra Marine, are highly inflexible when it comes to tactics. However, the Astartes is far more durable, and the Spartan is far more agile. Elites were confirmed to be around the level of a Spartan, Spartan's were just, on average, smarter as they all had an IQ higher than Einstein. True fact, it's why they were chosen. Brutes are stronger and far more durable than the Elites, and they were not dumb, just savage. Atriox and Escharum are perfect examples of that. As for Hunters, they will smack the ever-loving shit out of the Brutes if they aren't in berserk mode as they are far stronger and far more durable. Their armour is literal battleship plating, after all. Also, no way in fucking hell can a Chapter solo the Covenant, not even the Black Templars. They'll give it a good fucking go, but they will not destroy the Covenant solo unless the Imperium focuses its full attention on them which would require all of their enemies being murdered. As for industry and numbers, it's greater than you think. The Covenant is not weak.

[@Zerg_Zilla]

@@starhammer5247 He said a Hunter might be able to go 1v1 a SM. He's chugging that SM Kool aid. Hunters are walking tank Destroyers they are more then a match for a SM. I think Brutes are probably most similar in strength to a SM

[@starhammer5247]

@@Zerg_Zilla, I think Brutes are stronger, but even if they aren't, they still outnumber them forty to one. The Covenant considered the Brutes expendable shock troops and sent forty at a time during specific ops and wouldn't bat an eye if a thousand of them died if we aren't accounting for the others such as Grunts with Fuel Rod Cannons or Jackal Snipers (Drones are cannon fodder, let's be honest) let alone the Elites and their high rankers. Including Engineers, Scarabs (Which are as tall as some Titans, are easily replaced, and are outfitted with ship cannons), and all the other support that the Covenant has. Supply Lines are also an essential factor. Though I will admit that a combination of Ravenguard and Catachan Jungle fighters would prove to be a massive pain. Though Stolt I guarantee would solo everything.

[@TristanGauthier-oz3wp]

Let’s be honest space marine are impressive but without plot armor the would get killed in a frontal charge against a accurate line of plasma but I’m sure the space marine would be able to do some damage back but it’s wouldn’t be space marine charge and somehow surviving with most of their numbers

[@C-OBrien]

Tau v Covenant would be really fun actually, 2 relatively sane factions with similar levels of tech and of a relatively similar size

[@hakonsgaming535]

"The Covenant would be a great faction for 40k" What exactly do you think the fucking tau are?

[@John2r1]

The Covenant's baby phase before they got Slipspace drives and ships that are capable of going toe to toe with the Imperium ship for ship. Aka The Covenant are what the Tau want to be when they grow up. Big in scale and strong enough to not get shit stomped by the Imperium of it sneezes in their direction.

[@starhammer5247]

@@John2r1 I believe you mean punches. If the Imperium goes after the Tau, they'll end up with a broken jaw by the time they win, followed by literally everyone else kicking their shit in.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

Inferior

[@LordInquisitor701]

Thing about glassing is not that simple Every imperial of world is far better defend them Unsc the covenant could get away with glassing a feudal world But Agri-World I know it’s not a hive world, but the imperial is not stupid. They will make sure That world is protected Also, the thing about warp travel most Agrl world will probably be a location that has reinforcements nearby and a stable warp route

[@lennardchurch8483]

The Covenant have Forerunner sensors, and would be able to determine where the Imperium's fleets are, and since the Imperium doesn't have enough military to protect every world they have, the Covenant can arrive in overwhelming force to obliterate any defenses on an Agri world, take everything worth taking, and then glass it and leave before the rest of the Imperium even knows it's been attacked.

[@LordInquisitor701]

@@lennardchurch8483 really they have not really demonstrate this in the human covenant war how did unsc lasted for like 30 years if that was the case

[@LordInquisitor701]

@@lennardchurch8483 and second he NERFED imperial navy because he’s bias against halo he even admit it the thing about Warhammer 40 K such as void shields is it does not have a health system to take down void shields you required so much fire power to take it down anything less will not do anything that’s one of the reasons why the imperial a man uses broadsides so they can put as much fire power into an enemy ship as possible

[@lennardchurch8483]

@@LordInquisitor701 The Covenant often didn't use their full firepower against humanity, because humans frequently colonized worlds previously controlled by the Forerunners, so there was consistently Forerunner relics and structures that the Covenant wished to acquire, resulting in them reverting to ground combat, instead of just obliterating everything from space. Also, the Flood was in play before the events of Alpha Halo, as revealed in Halo Wars, and the Logic Plague is easily transmitted via communications, which is relevant given the Flood's nature as an avatar of the Precursors upholding the true Mantle, giving it reason to destabilize and thwart the Covenant's efforts to eradicate humanity. Also, it only takes 36 Covenant ships, cruisers and destroyers, one hour to melt an entire planet's surface into glass in, vaporizing the oceans, and leaving enough heat dumped into the planet that the entire atmosphere will boil off of the planet. People tend to drastically underestimate the firepower of the Covenant, because the Covenant is frequently using lower-power attacks out of caution for collateral damage.

[@LordInquisitor701]

@@lennardchurch8483 that’s cute It only takes one imperial ship to do that

[@wastelesslearning1245]

The covenant can’t keep up industrially? The Covent who baseline conquered the Orion arm of the galaxy. The Covenant who use disposable military bases called Citadels (Halo Wars 1); each one able to mass produce munitions and vehicles. The Covenant who’s fleet ships, and worlds have many nano machine mass Assembly Forges that can make anything from a gun to a Starship. The Covenant who’s primary ammunition is as plentiful as the stars. The Covenant who’s infantry infantry learns faster then humans and breeds even faster (Grunts). And if that wasn’t enough, the convent have the flying Drones who breed like wasp swarms. Prey the Letgolo breed slower cause otherwise the numbers game is not even going to be a contest. The Covent who have a creatures who can repair and replicate their tech and then some; including themselves (Engineers) oh and they can heal organic tissue and make forcefields too. The Covenant who’s guns are so efficient, in lore they only have to reload after days of warfare use. The Covent who mass produced custom equipment for there new Brute based troops rapidly and can easily mass produce the air the Grunts breath and that’s logistics most armies don’t even have to worry about yet they do it in their sleep. The Covenant who literally has mass produced air ships called “Vampires” that can freez enemies in place with a beam wile draining their enemies health and equipment to somehow repair themselves (halo wars 1) the banished even used that same tech in a different vehicle in (Halo wars 2) so there is president. So yeah I think the Covenent can easily industrialize competitively; maybe even more competently because you know, they each basically have their own STCs in their forward operating bases, ships, and manufacturing worlds. Last thing: Golly Gee wouldn’t it suck to be using high tech inferior Laz guns, vehicles medieval-ly assembled mech suits, and vehicles platforms against a faction who’s most plentiful weapon not only fires superior damaging plasma, and has a aim assist, but also has a EMP function that can knock out electronic equipment and vehicles. Just saying that “no innovation” stance the Imperium has will be their downfall if they don’t adapt their tech to that. But how powerful are their weapons? Depends how you want to be when it comes to scaling. I believe the closest thing Halo has to a Bolter is the Brute Shot. They are both monstrously large cannons that fire grenades like bullets. Personally I think bullet for bullet the brute shot and Bolter are about even with the heavier Bolter doing probably more then a Brute Shot bullet for bullet however fire rate I think goes to Bolters. Now If that’s our baseline… Covenant concussion rifles do more damage ( how much more in lore is unquantifiable but their impact toss warthogs like tumble weeds; in game it’s 4 shots to kill a Spartan with a Bruteshot/Bolter 3 shots with a concussion Rifle). The Covent plasma pistol when shooting charged shots have been shown in Hell Jumper comic to melt a Forunner door. Forunner metal by the way is a super metal that does not degrade with time. The molten portion was wide enough for two Hell jumper troopers to move through. Keep in mind too this was a security door. Now we don’t know if in lore the plasma pistol can fire more then one charged shot but in game it can fire more then one but it greatly cuts into weapon amo reserves. Keep in mind Covenant whole culture is literaly based on breaking into forunner ruins. In game plasma pistol takes two charge shots to kill a Spartan. Though maybe in lore you would need two disposable pistols to do that since we don’t know if you can do that trick more then once canonically. And keep in mind that heat on top of a emp and aim assist and a battery that can last days without recharging (no reloads needed). But I would be remiss not to mention the plasma pistol “standard fire” does trash damage way less then the Boltshot/Bolter but the charge shot perhaps more. Next the The covent Beam Rifle: one shots or tow shots max. Fuel rod cannon: one shot. Hunter Canon 2 shots in lore literal anti-tank units. Needler is weird but it does Peride Spartan armor. In cannon the normal needler imbeds not shoots clean through unlike the beam rifle. However the needle rifle and larger needler round weapons on covenant turrets and Vehicles can do way more damage. Needle rifle was able to pass clean through Kats Spartan helmet. Keep in mind Space marines don’t usualy have energy shields so Those shot to kill number included popping the Spartan shield first. You see? Brute shot with no shield was a 1 shot kill (3 to break the energy shield), beam rifle always a one shot without shields even body shots, the Concusion rifle 1 shot but it only took two to break energy shield, plasm pistol arguably one charged Shot (melted a vault door, EMP scramble circuits in armor and vehicles frying electronics). Plasma grenade and fuel rod cannon one shot even through energy shield. And there’s more weapons then this. Now again depend how comparable you think the Brute shot is to a standard Bolter but even if it’s like 60% as effective there are still so many more covenant guns that do more damage to that in my mind most likely one of those weapons is or exceeds bolter damage and well… bolters kill space marines and most space marines have no energy shields (the thing that prevents most weaker weapons form killing in seconds). Let me try to scare you some more. Grunts Erick plasma pistols but they can also use Fuel Rod canons (more damaging then bolters), elites can’t use them too but also concussion rifles, drones can emp from flying swarms, Jackles have Beam Rifles (more piercing then Brute Shots). Hunters are off the damage charts. Brute can use Bolt shots but also fuel rod cannons. Odds are most covent weapons can easily down most space marines even without other mass provide advantages like invulnerability shields, and invisibility and so many other hacks.

[@starhammer5247]

Despite all the hype the Bolter gets, it's actually a pretty shit weapon. Against armoured opponents it fucking sucks. It's only good against unarmoured people. Against someone of roughly equivalent armour or with shields, it becomes terrible.

[@Deathgaming112]

There is the covenant in 40k they are known as t’au

[@CaptainPilipinas]

Damned you youtube assuming that I was making fun of some parts of the Bible (for some reason coming from you?). Feh. *'how's That for Hypocrisy?'* -- some Drifting rat.