On the Wrist, from off the Cuff: Citizen Promaster - NB6021-68L vs. Seiko Prospex - SPB143 (SBDC101)

**Don't Mind the Blur over the Statline over the Seiko's movement, it's a 6R35, copy and paste error while editing, sorry**
teddybaldassar...
www.sakurawatc...

[@AverageBros]

For everyone writing off my thoughts due to the Seiko comparison, please watch this video comparing against other Citizens to include Titanium models, so you can see that this isn't about brand... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXiWi6p3gbGSotk

[@Vox-Populi]

This Citizen is my favorite tool watch. Lightweight, smooth back, which means no irritation on my skin, accurate, and the loom is fantastic.

[@sladkru]

It's subjective. I have both watches presented here. Seiko is more fancy, which is not necessary better. Citizen has more toolish vibe and an x-facor - it's more fun to wear. Bracelet on Seiko is uncomfortable, to heavy, clasp is too long. Citizen diver's extension is brilliant. I also find very compelling that Fujitsubo sapphire glass has a flat cut top and a domed underside, and the sides of the glass are beveled to provide a chunky, retro look. Seiko in theory is better, but a little bit boring.

[@ccw5886]

I have both watches. The Citizen is so superior for me. Better movement. Far more accurate , smoother and I think a beter looking watch. I had to return my 143 to Seiko because it was so innacurate. This is normal for Seiko, which is appalling at this price. The micro adjust works fine. Your review is so biased in favour of the Seiko

[@andreilungu1136]

100% agree with you. Citizen's overall are far superior to Seiko's. Money is what you pay, but value is what you get... great value I would say for Citizen.

[@sheepdog-kp9hb]

Seiko overpriced china crap

[@vandyke1411]

citizen now was like the old seiko before, high quality specs for an affordable price

[@SirCosmin]

I agree, he obviously likes Seiko much more despite Citizen being 10x better!

[@nikolaukic8140]

In Serbia Seiko price is 1600eur and Citizen 820eur. They are not in the same price category and differences are small, so Citizen has better value.

[@baybarsozturk8829]

Citizen wins without any doubt.

[@fungus70]

I reckon both are fantastic watches in their own ways but the Citizen represents better value.

[@johnnyjohnny7204]

the citizen is a league above the seiko here. the higher beat movement is on a par of any high beat Swiss movement now used. there's not a thing at all wrong with the execution, tho admittedly the crown should have been a mm or two bigger. the crystal faceting is above, the case hardened materials. and also the absolute knowledge one won't be getting the famous seiko misalignment somewhere...which is real since that's the reason i stopped buying seikos (never ever never had that issue with a citizen...or any issue come to think of it). citizen by far here.

[@johnnyjohnny7204]

i've had both and easily go with the citizen. yes, it has 60clicks, and it is softer on the bezel grip, but these are iso certification accepted AND the so-called frosted nature of the metal surface IS a characteristic of hardened titanium which, on this watch, is not just slightly harder than diashield, it's over TWO TiMES as hard. your mostly cosmetic reasons for liking the seiko do not compete with harder and lighter case and smoother/faster beat movement (yes, i absolutely notice the smoothness of the sweep seconds). the crown is too small, yes i hate that. but all in all, a steel watch vs a hardened titanium and higher beat movement, even with a 60click bezel...that's a minimal reason to choose the seiko. the look of the citizen is also one of the sweetest classic silhouettes in dive watches ever. i do appreciate your spelling out exactly the specifics involved in each of your characteristic preferences, however, on the whole i totally disagree with you on the final choice. and this is from a vintage watch restorer who for years now has only collected and purchased dive watches...not someone unschooled. excellent and well-explained review, but had to point out how much i disagreed with your conclusion.

[@wermissam1239]

true

[@bubuchichi3910]

🤩Citizen

[@hengonghuat9876]

Citizen is my choice as i have used both before

[@kenamaro3942]

I have the Citizen Promaster BNO 150, had a Citizen dress watch that I wore for years. Citizen is criminally under rated.

[@JB-qt8eh]

Citizen for me all day

[@StAntonioStefanov]

Depends on your location as well, as for my location brand new from a official dealer the price of the seiko is almost double the citizen and the citizen has 5 years guarantee, so if you need a robust diver the citizen is better value. Otherwise completely agree if you want it as a daily the seiko is the better watch.

[@MrSlurry]

Nice video and I understand what you're saying about the case finishing and dial details. Where I live (Aus) you can pick up the Citizen for under 400USD, while the Seiko can't be found for under 1000USD. For me, the choice was between the Fujitsubo and the Seiko King Turtle as they are available in the same price bracket. I chose the Citizen. Even if the SPB was available for the same price it would be difficult to choose a big, heavy watch with a 7s26 based movement over the citizen, which uses a modern Miyota, weighs 100g on the bracelet and is very comfortable. BTW, I use that ratcheting dive extension all the time if I need a little more room after swimming or going for a run and the bezel action seems to wear in after a little use

[@AverageBros]

This Promaster is a solid watch for the cost and I can totally understand why many may prefer it. I personally just loved the design so much that I really over hyped my expectations, wanting them to swing for the fences making a new classic vs. just putting out a nice diver.

[@MrSlurry]

@@AverageBros yeah, fair enough. I watched your other video on this vs other Citizens and to me it reinforced that the 'flaws' you point out are just design choices and (sorry for putting words in your mouth) it felt like you were listing your personal preferences. I like Seiko cases, but it's good to be able to get something different from (and IMO well executed) from another brand. And in titanium.

[@AverageBros]

@@MrSlurry choices for sure, but after collecting and owning some of Citizen's best JDM gems, I just wish they would've chosen to take the fit and finish to a similar level. They're absolutely capable of executing to a level that would be commensurate with the timelines design to make this one feel like a class leader vs. just another solid option among many competent options.

[@danryan4137]

Citizen is the winner. The barnacle in my country can be had for -30 % off MSRP, can’t find the seiko for much of a discount. The seiko is a beautiful watch, but it’s not worth double the money over the Citizen.

[@mediastarguest]

In Europe the Citizen on titanium bracelet can be bought for about 650€ or less. The Seiko is almost double the price.

[@J0hnny8ravo]

I kept hearing “execution”. For a diver’s watch, the Citizen has all the execution one can ask for. It’s a no-nonsense tool. Also, titanium is much harder to work with than ss. Color and shine is also different, even if we don’t consider the coating.

[@happysummer2425]

I am afraid I cannot agree that Citizen is worse than the Seiko SPB143 in term of workmanship and quality. Personally I prefer this Citizen NB6021 rather this Seiko. Citizen is providing much more best price offer than Seiko in terms of same or similar specification.

[@Zaz85]

I don’t get the Citizen bashing. You know that steel is so much easier to work with… not even a challenge! As if Seiko midrange divers are so greatly executed, alignment issues, trash movements. Easy win for the Citizen, not even close!

[@josephelsemartcanhear566]

Absolutely biased! Lol You cant compare titanium vs. A stainless steel. Give it a month and you will start to see sccratches in the seiko then tell me which is better. Lol One of the many reasons why I love a titanium watch. And oh, the movement is absolutely gorgeous in citizen and the overall look! Wake up

[@AverageBros]

I've owned the SPB143 for over 3yrs, the Citizen was a let down for me, I expected more. It's not a bad watch, just not as good as I personally thought it could or should be. I'm glad you like it though.

[@awdtw]

Here in Australia the Citizen is regularly $900aud from retailers (at most $1100) with an RRP of around $1500. The Seiko however is around $1500 from retailers with an RRP of around $1800. When you look at it from this perspective, the decision is an easy win for Citizen.

[@OutdoorsIQ]

Also if you roll in the titanium, better movement etc the Citizen comes out on top! The Citizen can be had around $700 in Australia now too.

[@Roland_4012]

Comparing the bezel action of a stainless steel watch with that of a titanium watch is like comparing apples to oranges. Take for example the Tudor Black Bay 58 and the Tudor Pelagos 39. The bezel action of the BB 58 is considerably better even though we are talking about watches from the same manufacturer.

[@AverageBros]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXiWi6p3gbGSotksi=F60BHX7YFoWb4bv6

[@RabbitWatchShop]

Gotta call you out on this claim. My P39's bezel is better than my BB54. Others that own the BB58 and P39 have, on average, stated the P39's bezel action is better. Titanium doesn't equate to worse bezel action. It's all about the manufactures' skills.

[@johnwick860]

great value by Citizen

[@umutaydogdu1502]

For some reasons Citizen is much better here. I agree with you that these 3 factor (9000, titanium and sapphire) should have been in a better execution but when we think about the price, that’s why it is $400-500 price range. If it would have been as you wished then the price was definitely above $1k. Actually it is the seiko which has to do some improvements with the price it has. Seiko is too expensive and too boring.

[@lal3061]

Come on. So the conclusion is "chose the Seiko because the bezel clicks 120 times and has a large crown"? Vs better movement, ISO certification, (much) more resistan material? You are not even sure if the (120 click) bezel will align

[@AverageBros]

No, the conclusion is always choose what you want but here's what I think and why. In the end, the Seiko feels more expensive than it is, while this Citizen feels cheaper. It feels like a $500 watch, you can put a Tourbillion movement inside and that wouldn't change the low level of finishing. Not everyone cares about fit and finish and that is fine, but I do value it.

[@angusmcwilliams6403]

Bro I think you just don’t like titanium watches - to each his own. But you can’t say there’s less effort put into the Citizen than the Seiko by observing the case finishing - titanium is a much harder and more difficult metal to work with, you’re not going to be able to create the same finishes and sharp angles as you can with stainless steel. I own both watches as well, and I love both, but whereas the Seiko is perhaps the nicer piece of jewelry, the Citizen is hands down the better all around watch IMHO

[@AverageBros]

No, not at all man. One of my finest finished watches is a titanium Seiko Astron SBXD007 (SSJ007). I even have other Citizens in Ti that are noticeably better finished than this one and one of them costs half the price. So I know Citizen are capable to applying more effort into the execution, but for some reason they just seem to have really set the bar low for this one, which I feel is a huge missed opportunity. The choices of using Sapphire, Ti, and a 9000 series movement, should put it in a higher tier of fit and finish for an overall more compelling product.

[@toshitominaga3911]

Spot on! ;-)

[@realestwatchreviews]

The Seiko looks much better but for daily wear it’s not even close. Check out the black dial Citizen and put it on a high quality fkm rubber strap.

[@brentwhite9712]

That citizen is gorgeous, the balance and proportions of the dial and bezel are great. In the hand, side by side it’s a better finish too, no competition.

[@latinballa88]

I have the SBDC101 (spb143) and it’s fantastic. I’m not surprised the citizen is “winning” the comments section. It’s far less expensive and more attainable. The Seiko is just built different. The bracelet is so much better than people make it out to be. My piece is pretty accurate, but at the end of the day I care about how attractive it is and whether or not if feels like it’s a high quality piece. The accuracy DOES matter, let’s be honest. A mechanical watch is, by far, an emotional purchase. If accuracy was the end all be all then I’d just wear my Apple watch 🤷‍♂️.

[@calvint226]

I think the thing that isn't emphasized in this review is that the Citizen is getting compared to the Seiko because it punches above it's weight while the Seiko stoops below its class. The Seiko is a better watch from finish, sharper, better execution in lines and bracelet. But it's what it doesn't have that makes falter Has an accuracy guarantee that has to miss the broad side of a barn for them to do anything, QC (ring alignment, dust, and accuracy), high beat mvmt. The Citizen has faults too. The rotor noise is extremely annoying, it can be fixed by opening the case (also true for Seiko QC issues), the dial is uninspired (not matte or sunburst, just flat black), and a dull bezel. If they hadn't made it titanium and put the effort else where this video would be short. But at the end of the day Citizen doesn't have to prove anything, every extra thing like magnetic resistance makes a lot of marginal scores look better and better. I won't deny the criticism towards the Citizen, but you're comparing it like they stand on even ground. The Seiko is fighting a down hill battle since it cost more

[@toshitominaga3911]

I'd take the Titanium over stainless. Got low and high and Seiko divers but don't like the weight of stainless steel.

[@stargazer1059]

I have had both watches and I am a big Seiko fan. Citizen wins me here. I don't agree with the quality part. No one really cares how firm the bezel action feels. I find SPB143 uncomfortable. NB6021 is by far the most comfortable mechanical diver I have ever worn. Orient Mako doesn't compare to this watch. Not at all..

[@valueink]

I tried the Citizen at a Citizen store and I was really impressed. I only wish that they spent more time and effort on finishing the case and bracelet. The titanium is somewhat dark, unlike Seiko who's able to make titanium look almost like SS. But the dial, dimensions, hands, bezel, everything else I really liked and it looks amazing on the wrist while being super light.

[@giusepperocchi2979]

Which titanium Seiko are you referring to ?

[@alanaliyev456GT]

Saphire glass is a minimum !!! Sugar like hardlex is full of scratch after 3 years

[@ClaesNorin]

This Citizen is not trying to be bling at all which the Seiko does (more). It's trying to squeeze in great specifications and a titanium case for sub 1000 USD. It's pure utility and checks a lot of points like good time keeping, light weight, anti magnetic, vintage look, robustness. There are really only less "bling", which again, is not its focus here.

[@AverageBros]

Not that I'd consider any polishing bling but polished portions aside, the contours of the case and bracelet are noticably softer and show less effort in execution. My slim turtle is all brushed and is much more refined than the Citizen by comparison.

[@ClaesNorin]

I get it. And it's not bling - bad word. However if one takes this watch in as a whole it's (for me at least) very uniform and unison specs and polish. It's not a polished case edge (bling) on a worse movement etc. There is something with keeping the quality of a watch wholesome and uniform across all elements. This is where I find this Citizen to be great. It does not promise more than ANY of it's features and specs. By the way, great comparison and great video. Just chiming in! ❤

[@ClaesNorin]

The Seiko is trying to "hide" bad specs in some fancy minor features (which are superior to the Citizen watch).

[@AverageBros]

@@ClaesNorin bad specs? 70Hr power reserve with shock protection and an antimagnetic SPRON 510 mainspring, running at +2 seconds per day all inhouse down to the jewels and lubricants, is more than competitive.

[@ClaesNorin]

​@@AverageBros True but it's also 3hz vs 4hz, titanium vs stainless (weight), 1x anti-magnetic vs 3x anti-magnetic, simple anti-scratch vs better anti-scratch... Citizen has matched same quality all around here. The movement matches the case and bracelet. While I feel the Seiko has hid a worse movement inside a nicer finished case and some details. The Seiko should cost another 500-1000 USD and match the rest of it.

[@snackyxchan]

I much prefer the citizen, I had the spb143, it's a nice watch but the movement sucks, the bezel was misaligned, and it was heavy. I'm waiting on my fujitsubo citizen in the mail at the moment ☺️

[@J0hnny8ravo]

Did you get it? Any thoughts on it?

[@R8Prototype]

I really wanted to like the citizen a lot, but the Seiko just looks way sharper to me

[@wermissam1239]

Better movement, durability, confort, glass, band ... Citizen is objectively better. But no problem with people prefering the SPB

[@johnnymouse886]

great job ,thank you you open my eyes.

[@webersteve1547]

Comparing apples and oranges.

[@Matt-uq3in]

fujitsubo all day long proper workhorse, I love Seiko I have some nice Seikos in my collection.

[@abakada0722]

Thanks for the review and helping me decide my next watch. Which will be the citizen since it look far more superior to the seiko.

[@mikejoseph8392]

I had all three. Only kept seiko. I completely agree. Especially the fluting on the bezel was a major letdown. Bought ‘em sold ‘em.

[@filmaelculdetomare]

I'm going to add my humble opinion... had the opportunity to either own or manipulate both. I must say that I was very excited about the Citizen, but after seeing it in person the bezel looks and feels very cheap, definitely not at the level for that RRP. Even if discounted, I don't think it's on par with the Seiko.

[@GoAvs69420]

great video, I really appreciated this comparison even if it did poke holes in my crush on the citizen.

[@davida3025]

Comparing a much higher priced SS watch to a lower cost vintage-homage titanium watch, and picking the more expensive piece? Brilliant. Yes, the Seiko is a more refined watch, but it should be.. you're paying a lot more for it. You don't seem to understand value vs. price. And you don't understand a homage piece being "soft" by design. Simply not a knowledgeable and objective review. You seem surprised by the critisicm here, but you shouldn't be. My frst and only viewing of your stuff.

[@AverageBros]

Like I said in the video, it's okay to like the Citizen more. You don't have to try and discredit my opinion to validate your own. To say all of its shortcomings are simply due to them trying to accurately recreate the original watch, is flat out untrue. They made it Titanium, added Sapphire, added a 4Hz hacking movement, added a bracelet with a modern clasp, made it 200m WR, and I even went out of their way to remove the full 60min index from the bezel. They very clearly made an effort to improve the watch for today's standards. I personally feel like they fell quite short. No one reminisces on poor bezel action and soft finishes and asks for those elements to be recreated. I'm blown away by how many people take this video as some type of personal attack on their sensibilities. It's a fine watch, it could be better, and I think it should be, because it does have so much potential. If I didn't care for the design, I wouldn't be so let down by the execution. There would be no conflict and it would be an easy pass.

[@joaoluissantosguerreiro2490]

Considerando que a diferença de preço entre o Citizen (749€) e o Seiko (1400) julgo que as diferenças no aspeto não são assim tão relevantes ... considerando que o aspeto técnico são similares senão melhor o Citizen.

[@igotcheremnykh2352]

It would be interesting to put these watches on a time graph. For everyone could see how trash this Seikos is. Seiko 6R35 movement is simply terrible.

[@1plateclub]

I love both, borrowed my friends 62mas for a couple days, and I own the barnacle. Being that I like more discrete watches, I throughly enjoy the citizen as it’s antimagnetic, water resistant, light weight and no polishing, I prefer this citizen a bit more. The 62mas in my opinion is better as the midsize. Between the 62mas 38mm and the barnacle, I’d take the 62mas all day since I prefer smaller watches.

[@turradi1126]

Love the comparison, very well done. Thanks. Finally somebody put it into words what always bothered me at Seiko and Citizen: it's the softness and lack of tightness. Since I discovered San Martin divers (their LX homage being the best example) I can't justify paying 4, 5 times more for a watch that is worse (like the Citizen here.) You think that Seiko is tight? Just check the gap between lugs and end links. San Martin LX is tighter, haha

[@MaleGolfer]

@AverageBros Wow, you're really taking some heat with this comparison! With just the "eye test" alone, I think the Seiko looks much, much more premium. Talking about "fan boys," the Citizen crew sure showed up for this comparison. In my view, these watches aren't even close. The Citizen looks chintzy.

[@AverageBros]

Yeah, I don't know, some people are taking this way too personal. I want Citizen to make a killer watch too, especially one that looks like this, but it's such a missed opportunity to really show out. This release got a lot of visibility and could've caused a larger surge of excitement from the enthusiast community, if the brand would've taken their consumer more seriously vs. depending on only a loaded spec sheet and not putting the same level of emphasis on execution.

[@DOPEGEEE]

Its a difference to work with steel or titanium. Seiko can do whatever with steel. Wont change the fact, its 2023 and they have still QC issues untill today. Yes Seiko is a BIG japanese manufacturer, have alot of history. But the same stands for Citizen, many people wont recognize their history and craftmansship. The Seiko fans always talk about the mechanical movements, a fan favour, as it seems they dont know much about Citizen. Then they talk about EVEN the Quarz watches from Seiko-Grand Seiko, and how exact and beautyfull they are. H E L L O..... Citizen beats you in every aspect. Who has the best Quarz movement??? Its NOT Grand Seiko, its simply CITIZEN. They lose about 1sec. in a year!!! And the guys from Grand Seiko cant do it like Citizen. Just look at the Chronomaster from Citizen, beats every Grand Seiko, why you love mechanical watches, its because the SWISS built the 4hz movements which run exact. Citizen pushes with Miyota better movements. You talk like this because you are used to watches made of steel. It wont change the fact titanium is more durable, less weight.

[@AverageBros]

Watch this video, clearly you want my disappointment with this model to be more about Seiko, so here is a comparison between other Citizens to include titanium ones that are better finished... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXiWi6p3gbGSotk

[@DOPEGEEE]

@@AverageBros It was not my intention to attack your opinion. If "a" YT is showing watches from Citizen, then its you. And if someone keeps it real, I dont have a problem. But often its like noone talks about Citizen and their catalogue. Does Citizen have watches with the same class of finishing? I think YES. Thats the reason for my comment, dont forget about Citizen, watch people. Thats all. Keep it up and ty for the vidz.

[@theenavybluemonster]

Seiko for me. No contest.

[@gradyeger313]

I have gone back and forth on these two since they were first compared together. Today though I made up my mind. I bought both. 🙃

[@JamesandRibble]

The bracelet on the spb051 is much nicer than the replacement models

[@Jack3dBrett]

the 3 o clock crowns dont make any sense to me. they dig into your wrist all day long and are uncomfortable. its that reason why i stick to the automatic fugus by citizen with the 8 clock crowns. the cases are also nicely rounded and extremely comfortable to wear. not to mention half the price or less

[@michaelsigman8942]

Seiko IS a better watch. But it got sold and I have the barnacle. Why? Comfort. Make the seiko thinner/lighter and it’s no contest. Unfortunately it wears big for a 40mm watch. It’s gorgeous, but it does.

[@alanaliyev456GT]

Extension is perfect for my 9 inches wriste. I dont need buy links in more ! Or use a rubber band

[@valueink]

The only Seiko comparable to this would be the Seiko Shogun, which this beats in almost every aspect. Better movement, sapphire, milled clasp, lower price.

[@cle_roknn3742]

Part of the difference in the case and bracelet is the machining that has to go into the titanium vs the steel. Steel is much easier to machine because it’s not as brittle. Now that’s not making excuses, but you are talking about a watch under 1K. Same with the bezel action, that hollow noise is more about material than function, the bezel action however is very different and your spot on. Your also quite lucky that the dial/bezel line up on your Seiko, I’ve seen these with QC issues galore in jewelry stores. I’d like to see a sample of 10-30 watches, put them on the time grapher and see which comes better regulated from the factory. Otherwise, your observations are spot on….

[@AverageBros]

Citizen have produced better finished titanium bracelets for half the price and better titanium cases and bezel action for around not much more. As for QC, the only watches I can compare are the ones I have. The factory acceptable accuracy tolerances for both of these movements are nothing special and in practice I've had great COSC-like experiences with both movements across multiple watches. I will say that it seems Seiko movements run better on the wrist dynamically, than they do timegraphers in fixed positions.

[@siongbb5339]

So is it worth it if I can get Citizen at around 600 USD?

[@AverageBros]

Absolutely, it's not even a bad deal at full price, it's just not one of those watches that make you feel like you have something that really punches above its weight. It's just a well spec'd watch that looks good.

[@michaelgreen4585]

Extremely biased

[@AverageBros]

So what about all of my other videos praising other Citizen models?

[@walkerxjr]

I have owned both. The Citizen looks pretty but in the metal (Ti) it was for me a bit of a let down. The bezel action and case finishing only helps to highlight the price difference. A Seiko SPB killer it most certainly is not.

[@timemeasured9137]

Seiko 62Mas takes the gold here!!! The SPB143 is already a classic…

[@johnrb9397]

I like Citizen but the Seiko kills it.

[@1968jpy]

For me Seiko all day long . The Citizen is not a bad watch but as a Seikopath it’s a easy choice for me . Plus I don’t do titanium. I love the feel and heft of steel. Citizens to seems to try so hard to compete with Seiko but they always seem to fall short in there efforts.

[@Dirtywesterner]

I wonder if the bezel action on the citizen was a Qc issue. If it was , then the citizen would be the better watch , and it still is on many levels.The Seiko is aesthetically more pleasing,but barely and in terms of price it loses soundly,to me at least

[@AverageBros]

It's an $86 difference, not sure how that amounts to a sound victory. Also, aesthetics are subjective, while the Seiko is objectively better built with finer finishing and tighter tolerances by comparison. I love Citizen and own some of their best at the price point, unfortunately this diver is not one of them. It's okay to prefer one vs. the other but one is clearly the better built piece. Hey, I prefer my Laco Flieger Pro vs. the IWC Pilot Mark XX but the IWC is the better watch and I'm fine with that.

[@marcuschamp1460]

.... your written stats on screen say the Seiko has a Miyota 9051 movement .......... interesting ...........

[@CACOPHONIE]

what 🫨

[@AverageBros]

Yep, sorry. Nice catch, copy and paste error while editing the text.

[@alenivancic1540]

😂😂😂😂😂 so stupid review.

[@musik4u343]

I'm a fan of your videos and I do like these watches but I think it's pretty obvious that you did this review basically knowing that you were going to say better things about the Seiko LOL I don't think you actually gave the citizen a fair shot. Theres a lot of things that Id pay for in the citizen over the Seiko maybe work on a little more objectivity for your comparisons

[@AverageBros]

I honestly feel like the Citizen is a let down and people tend to keep blaming my liking Seiko more for that. I have one more video coming where I compare to other Citizens to try and better explain my thoughts. It's okay to prefer the Citizen, I say that multiple times in the video. It doesn't mean that it's better, it just means you like it better. I love my Laco Flieger Pro but it's not better than an IWC Pilot Mark XX and I'm okay with that.

[@musik4u343]

@Average Bros it also doesn't mean seiko is better. Let's be really honest seiko is legendary for their QC issues at all price points in addition to underwhelming specs for what they charge on some watches for the price especially. Why don't you compare certain seikos to micro brands in the same price segment? I can guarantee siko doesn't beat any of them. But since ur a seiko guy...u can't be objective clearly and that's a shame.

[@AverageBros]

@@musik4u343 Wow, considering my channel is known for supporting micro brands, not sure where you get that. Especially considering most microbrand owners I know wear and collect Seiko's, lol. I literally have hundreds of watches and have experienced even more, somehow I keep getting good Seiko's without issues. It's seems to be the cool thing to bash Seiko, similar to bashing Rolex. I laid out the things that were objectively better about the Citizen and also showed the places where they were objectively worse. If you don't care about case finishing or other production details, that's fine but you can't act like the softness of the case and bracelet finishes or lack of effort on the dial execution was actually good. It just goes to show many people only formulate opinions based on spec sheets and not the actual product quality.

[@musik4u343]

@Average Bros you clearly missed my point haha wow. Ok have a good one man. I can't have a conversation with the wall lol

[@AverageBros]

@@musik4u343 I can only speak on my own experiences man, you can go on about Seiko's QC and poor specs for money but I base my opinions on my actual experience. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not being objective. It just means I have my own thoughts. You're saying I missed the point, okay you asked why I don't compare microbrands to Seiko's. Well, I don't think they're direct competitors in many cases. Even completely removed from scale they have totally different business models. A microbrand should offer better value, compared to a brand with hundreds of years of experience, that's how they gain ground. The Citizen here, costing $86 less and being made of Titanium and having a 4Hz movement, from a brand of similar prestige should've made it an easy win but due to the comparatively poor execution and lack of effort, it somehow doesn't. I said in the video I could see why some still may not care and choose the Citizen purely based on wanting a functional tool and not caring about those finer details I called out. It's not a bad watch, but Citizen clearly could've done better. They have done better, even at lower price points. If I didn't like the watch and see the potential, I wouldn't have gone to these lengths to discuss.

[@ferexx]

the thing with Ti bezel action is probably because titanium is sonically quite dull and even solid titanium has a hollow feel. I have more titanium watches than stainless steel and titanium is really an acquired taste. even my stainless steel Casio Royale with its folded links has a more solid feeling bracelet than the solid titanium on my Oceanus that cost 50 times more. i have friends who commented that my ti watches feels cheap in hand 🥲