One D&D Fighter Changes - Failing to bridge the caster gap

[@robertd4061]

The whole "make Battlemaster maneuvers a core fighting/martial class thing" is such an obvious thing to do, and has been so oft requested throughout the lifespan of 5e that it really does feel like the designers very specifically don't want to go that direction. Like the specter of 4e's rejection (or even the backlash to the Book of Nine Swords back in 3.5) is still hanging over the office. And IMO, that's a shame. Having a pool of dice that refresh once per encounter that you could spend to do cool combat tricks would completely revolutionize the way people saw the Fighter. And for those who prefer to play a "chuck dice, swing sword, do damage" fighter without any of the fancy stuff, just make those dice more damage they can roll. Pathfinder 2e's Marshal archetype is a great solution to the concept posed around 42:21 of a mundane, martial character whose presence on the battlefield inspires others. I'd really suggest checking that out if that's a character you'd like to play (I'm GMing for one now, and it's awesome). Speaking of which, looking forward to that Pathfinder Archetypes video you mentioned!

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Pathfinder Archetype vid is next week! We recorded it a bit ago but the UA threw us off. Trying to be timely and all that. I loooooooove the archetypes. And one day if I get to be a player in PF that is going on my list.

[@isaac_marcus]

Sup gang! 3:00 I really don't think they've talked at length about the future of Short Rests. Everyone has been saying "Yep they're removing them" kinda like Ellie did, but like... they still have SOME features keying on it (e.g. the Cleric had that one Order option to get a CD back on SR) and of course Hit Dice. So idk, maybe they're just trying to remove the difference between classes from "short rest dependent" and "long rest dependent" and "rogues" 6:20 we shall form a worldwide resonating groan of agony 9:30 yeah 2 ASIs in a row is like, pretty great return on a multiclassing investment. Maybe especially on Rogue since they no longer get an extra ASI? I wonder how much they're banking on Epic Boon at 20 to dissuade MCing (spoiler: probably won't help at all) 10:15 This feature and what Will says about "fighters should really do whatever they want" really shows that Weapon Masteries should be THINGS YOU CAN DO as opposed to weapon properties. They're kind of filling a really weird spot between a property and a Fighting Style. Like "Oh when you use a Versatile weapon, you always use the bigger die". or "Oh you can make an additional attack against a new target within 5 ft of the original", or "Oh, if you miss, you still deal your Ability Mod in damage" Scaling is a good design idea about them though 14:40 Thank you yes, Indomitable is such a weird half step right now. This feature makes WAY more sense in PF2e with Degrees of Success. 18:30 Wrong highlight Ellie lol (or whatever you call the bits where you show the rules text) 20:45 Ellie has such a pure heart, love to see it. 22:45 this is like that Druid feature with the wildshape and healing. Except like, it's good 25:50 "OH NO WE WON'T SEE THAT AT ALL" Will made me actually laugh out loud 29:00 you're all invited to join my planned TTRPG company "Warriors of the Mountains" where I will make casters boring and martials epic. Coming in 2040 after I finish writing D&D5me 32:30 I'm playing a pure Champion in a mini-series right now (level 10 for 2 sessions and then 4 or so at level 20). It's great if you have a legendary magic weapon that deals 1/2 the target's max HP on a crit! (and not a Nat 20 like dogshit Vorpal Swords). At level 20 I will have a ~20% chance to kill any enemy not immune or resistant to Necrotic Damage in one Attack Action. Wave is kinda cracked 33:10 yeah, it's almost like just having skills isn't really a feature... Casters don't have skill proficiencies, right? Surely not. 34:25 I do have some pretty wild Fighting Style revisions, that are more like half feats (without the ASIs) in power level. They're gonna be my "free level 1 thing" for next game. Lemme know if you ever wanna look at them. 35:10 wow I missed that. After all that bandying about they actually said it? I guess it's different from the "Recharge on Initiative" features in that there's 0 way to use it OUT of combat. hmm... 38:20 I think a big question is, since both the Death Save and Heroic Rally, is there an intended order they need to be done in? Do you come back with 1 HP, then regain 5+Con? Or do you lose out on your healing, then come back with 1 HP ? Those can end very differently Also interestingly, the feature is kinda lifted from the old Brute UA, which was sort of meant to be the alternate Champion. They also got Survivor, but at level 7 they had Brutish Durability > Whenever you make a saving throw, roll 1d6 and add the die to your saving throw total. If applying this bonus to a death saving throw increases the total to 20 or higher, you gain the benefits of rolling a 20 on the d20 41:00 Ellie might be thinking of Diamond Soul for Monks, which does give your Proficiency in Death Saves (also Paladin aura gives a bonus too) 44:30 Hey it also adds to Initiative! That level 20 champ is gonna have +11 to Initiative, with Advantage (did you know Wave is also a Weapon of Warning? Seriously it's dope as hell) Have a good one!

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Wonderful insight as always :D We had blackrazor and Whelm in 1 campaign once. I nerfed Blackrazor heavily to make it less ridiculous but whelm was also a beast. That party was crazy hahah I would love to see the fighting style revisions. You know how to reach us outside of here yeah? Email always works if you're off the one social media we use (twitter)

[@isaac_marcus]

@@MonstersMulticlass Yup! It's been a while but I'll dig up your email. Yeah I don't use Reddit DMs and haven't been on Twitter in forever since Crawford never replies to Sage Advice anymore T.T. Also I guess they're gonna start deleting accounts now that have been inactive for 30 days in case that matters to y'all

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Im still active "enough" on twitter. But it wouldnt hurt much to have it deleted lol. [e-mail]

[@woutvanostaden1299]

Heroic advantage does nicely synergise with the vex mastery.

[@camclemons]

The heroic advantage Champion feature has great synergy with improved critical. Seemed like a very nice design choice.

[@MonstersMulticlass]

I didn't check but do those overlap? I thought that heroic advantage was 'when you roll a 20 on a d20 test'

[@camclemons]

@@MonstersMulticlass it says you can grant yourself heroic advantage of you don't have it at the start of your turn, once per combat

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Oh I misunderstood what you meant regarding the synergy. Yeah that's super nice

[@justinmichael9043]

The fighter’s ability to swap weapon masteries will be very nice for PAM and CBE users to customize their weapons.

[@daviddalrymple2284]

The game has those special abilities that so many martial players crave, but they're so gated off: battlemaster maneuvers, hunter ranger multiattacks, the sword burst cantrip, the steel wind strike spell... I'm not convinced that having one or two extra per-encounter abilities is going to change the Fighter (look at the Arcane Archer). I think you're right that the kind of robust martial system that many people want is going to have to be built from the ground up.

[@Tortle-Man]

I really think that changing these weapon properties to be more like cantrips that martial side, that proc when they attack an enemy, would be better. Every attack martial get a bit of utility without sacrificing damage. That would be the best evolution of this identity.

[@camclemons]

Jerrad out there gerrymandering the 1d&d feedback

[@daviddalrymple2284]

The original 2e Bladesinger kit comes from the era when Elves were just Better, and balance was shrugged off. And the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide wasn't much interested in balance either (although most of its subclasses were more underpowered than overpowered.) So it was weird to see it brought back in Tasha's, mostly unchanged.

[@kwaksea]

Weapon Maneuver looks cool, but, I just hoped for "Battle Master Maneuver" for everyone.

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Me too friend. Me too

[@Roshiyu]

Once that Champion hits level 20, you can take Epic Boon of Recovery. So when you take damage while you have 0 hit points, you can make a death saving throw instead of taking an automatic failure. Champion goes down. Bad guy hits them with a weapon to finish them off. Champion grins, thanks them for the healing, and gets back up for 8 attacks.

[@MonstersMulticlass]

It's actually really awesome. So glad the champion is getting this rework

[@hectoravila4682]

I feel all spell casters need to reduce their hit die by 1 & amor should reduce their spell casting lv or prevent casting of spells of certain lv. So wizard have a d4 because spell casters are more resilient than martials with spells like absorb elements and shield so easy to get high AC with how easy amor is to get. Not to mention they tend to get hit way less since they are back liners.

[@pinkidolplays5645]

I can only imagine how sad that heroic advantage feature is in a campaign where the DM hands out inspiration to everyone frequently.

[@MaMastoast]

This just feels like way too little. What im worried about is that most people will give a positive response due to weapon mastery (because it is a small improvement) meaning we'll never see martials be mechanically interesting

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Me too. I will be deep in the survey making sure that's heard. Damage is not the only factor in d&d. And all this change really does is add more. Everything else is just fixing crappy mechanics

[@MaMastoast]

​@@MonstersMulticlass I do really disagree with your take on not wanting the bladesinger in the game though. I think the bladesinger is a perfect example of a good subclass. It adds an effective twist on a class that truly informs how that class is played. I dont think the bladesinger should suffer just because WoTC cant get their act together and give martials some proper impactful stuff to do.

[@MonstersMulticlass]

That's fair. I'll die on this hill alone if I have too lol If it wasn't so op I may not be upset about it either. Without booming blade it wouldn't be as bad

[@MaMastoast]

@@MonstersMulticlass I think bladesinger only highlights how replacable martials are though, but that isnt the bladesinger being super op, its the martials not having a skillset of their own. If all it takes to make a caster offensively OP compared to martials is to give it extra attack and similar AC, then clearly the martials simply lack abilities. Barbarians should be able to toss enemies around, auto grapple, do AoE whirlwind attacks, all parts of the baseclass. The rogue needs to dodge around enemies, steal their weapons, blind them, knock them prone by doing cheap shots. Perhaps even build a poison mechanic into the rogue class. The fighter has a ton of obvious examples in the battlemaster The bladesinger will still be able to do more spectacular stuff(because magic), but the martials would have their own stuff the bladesinger cannot replicate. Im just saying, why take away one of the most fun subclasses instead of just making the martial classes equally fun?

[@MonstersMulticlass]

No no you're right. I'm operating off of a world where martials don't get these cool things. Which seems like the most realistic path because wotc is really scared of complicating martials.

[@disembodiedvoicek]

I’m not sure that I want martials to be able control just like casters do. Also, when you use magic you are going to be more powerful. I don’t want there to be parity. If I play a martial I want to do great damage. I like weapon mastery it lets martials do more damage which is good.

[@MonstersMulticlass]

Honestly I can deal with that if their damage outpaces spellcasters. Hopefully it does now. I haven't seen the math on it yet