This Low Mythic+ Pug Key shows the Season 4 Dungeon Changes are working...

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[@NeedsMorePants]

It's nice now from a healer POV that HPS checks for unavoidable damage (see third boss of HoI with the persistent rot damage profile or the first boss with the Static Surge) are cleanly distinct from someone eating avoidable damage, which is typically in the realm of doing 80% of a player's max HP to outright one-shot.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya loving what I'm seeing on that front too.

[@XAn0nymousX0]

This is crazy to see. I remember in BFA I never actually learned what most of the mechanics were until you were already at a 15+ when the damage for abilities become VERY noticeable. I already has KSM before I learned the dungeons and got good at them and made my push to 20s. Cool to see they're actually teaching you right out the gate now.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya so much better.

[@punklingyt]

Initially, I was opposed to the changes because I hated how much harder the changes felt. After a month with them now, I can comfortably say, as a healer, I love the changes. It's reinforced to me that, hey, I'm better than I thought I was, because I was afraid to run M+2-10 in S3...and now I'm running +5's in S4 which is the equivalent of an old +15. Seeing that people get punished with death for playing poorly, ignoring mechanics, or failing CC/interrupts is actually really nice because you get to watch the learning happen in real time. It's no longer the healers fault when someone gets hit by a 1 shot or a near 1-shot, because the healer can't just BRez every mistake you make. It also helps me feel more necessary when the HPS checks get dicey, and feels so good to see me pump some of the highest HPS numbers I've ever put through because people actually take hefty, unvaoidable damage that has to be healed through, and feels good when healed correctly. Overall, definitely a fantastic change that just took some mental getting used to

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Such a great perspective. Thanks for your thoughts! Glad you were able to overcome that initial wall and become a better player for it.

[@DierdreWolf]

I've had groups on M0's for the Bonus Bullion box (farming Tmogs on alts with the Bullions) where they didnt understand mechanics. I explain it to them nicely, we try again - they still dont do mechanic, we wipe and they leave. Like they expect just to go in and W through the dungeon.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Yup, that's evidence its workings!

[@Bunstonious]

The changes are great, key size matters! I hope they keep making each keystone level be a meaningful jump.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Totally agree.

[@shellydkitty]

When you first suggested a squish to make lower keys harder, I did not have any hope that blizz would do this, but I am also SO HAPPY they did. I feel so much more prepared as I progress through the key levels, succeeding at a key feels like an actual accomplishment when it's not just a face roll, and everyone is forced to learn or else you're not moving up. Grouping has definitely been better. 1st week when people thought they could go in and still face roll a 2 was an eye opener. I was in an AA m0 that actually disbanded on the tree boss because a couple people admitted they just couldn't do it/weren't prepared yet, which I saw as a positive sign for the season. Anyway, I agree with you and also think the evidence here that you showed of people getting hit by every mechanic and dying and then doing better on the next trash pull is all you need to see that this is working as intended!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

So glad to hear that! I'm excited to know it's working already.

[@lampshades5436]

Was curious on that priest who left the run and looked them up. No enchants on any piece of gear/no neck gems. Had a completely different talent build from what holy priests are running in M+. was only 2p tier when we have charges each week with catch up charges. Knowledge is half the battle!

[@johnlinks]

I don't run with enchants or gems for like half of the season until I'm satisfied with my gear progression. The only one I do that's mandatory is the weapon enchant

[@samward1317]

@@johnlinks the rank 2 enchants cost 10 gold.

[@billjohnson2307]

-_- Maybe he doesnt know what enchants are. or what gems are or how to make ur neck piece have the 3 gem slots... See yall always look at a player and just think everyone whos playing should know how this stuff is done but not every has spent you know years playing this game.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya unfortunately that guy clearly doesn't take his character seriously. And frankly them quitting is proof of that.

[@xxzvoidzxxyt5693]

​@@johnlinks that's just a bad take honestly. You can buy rank 2 enchants for dirt cheap while you're gearing

[@simonklotsche4259]

+2s will make for great content this season. I've seen so many people stay in Irideus and Vexamus rain already. Returning players get stumped my the new difficulty curve. For me Season 4 has taught me to use defensives more often.

[@Matte8lack]

s4 isnt even that bad for defensives usage. You can get by with way less defensives usage compared to s2. That season was utter hell to heal. Increased player HP pools (on top of the increased ilvl), overall increased npc dmg output (on top of increases to the dungeon scaling from keystone lvl) and no appreciable buffs to healing etc and also the dungeon pool had some of the nastiest ones that just had big groupwide unavoidable dmg spikes and healing a person to full took 5-8gcds but you had another big dmg event before you even finished those 5gcds. I remember trying to hopelessly heal so many players just because they refused to use their defensives and they melt to a groupwide followed up by another mechanic while also eating 1 avoidable hit.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It's been a banger so far!

[@DietcokeHD1]

That healer has some kind of add on going off telling him stuff , and he still stands in bad.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha welcome to wow!

[@s0515033]

I don't think it will work in the long run. Like what happened in Cata, it will just cost Blizzard money in lost players, which will end up making the game worse overall. Then they will cave and change it again. Big problem with the new system is that Heroic Dungeons are super easy, m0 is a huge step up between A and B, and you can't even farm M 0 for gear to go into M+ because of the weekly lockout. And given 0 is basically a 10, most people aren't going to really do those either. The 2s are not realy 2s. They are basically 12s anyway.

[@tbuksuperfly]

I agree. Cata is a very good example to use. I liked the bump in difficulty, but by and large the player base didn't (especially coming from the ezemode aoe fest wrath was) and they lost subs over it. Originally I was indifferent about the squish, didn't think it was necessary but whatever. However, as someone who does reasonable key levels (~12s/2.8k on a holy pally currently) I'm starting to think it's a bad idea. There are so many people who just aren't that good at the game (not an insult to anyone, people just have different goals) and by squishing the keys down they've effectively created barriers for all these people who might want to do a few lowbie keys, get their vault, etc.. with not much risk. Selfishly, sure, it might mean I meet a better quality of player if I decide to get some lower keys done for crests or whatever, but I feel it's kinda alienating those people that aren't that sweaty and just want to play at their own level. Who knows. People might stick with it and improve, or they'll just quit. Time will tell.

[@samward1317]

@@tbuksuperfly the whole point of this video is that letting people just overgear low M+ is what led to people not knowing any of the mechanics

[@s0515033]

@@samward1317 They still don't and won't know the mechanics, though, because you don't learn them prior to it. Heroic has no mechanics and m0 is a 10, which most people won't get into due to the weekly lockout and massive difficult spike between heroic and m0. Unless they make m0 farmable with no lockout, this system breaks. You can't farm the gear you need from 0 to get into + and unless you are doing it early, you won't even be able to do 0s.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You make a good point about them caving. They probably will sadly. But they shouldn't. All the other stuff you bring up is evidence it's working and what why should not. But because you and so many others complain about it, you make them think they did something wrong. When I'm reality they did something right.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I think the system is fine itself with a few tweaks. They need to make Heroic dungeons more difficult to better prepare for M0 as right now, mechanics don't matter, so you won't learn anything going into M0. Then they need to make m0 farmable by removing the weekly lockout so that the population is available do farm them throughout the week. Currently, if you don't do it early, the lockout ensures no one does it later. And given m0 is critical to the gearing process for m+ the lack of population kills it. The current system just doesn't make sense for the stated goal of making people know what they are doing. They still don't. If anything, it is worse because now they don't even experience mythic + mechanics at all until they get into a 2. Regardless, the system will eventually fail and they will get rid of it. We're basically doomed to relearn the lessons of the past. People don't get better. They just leave, and leaving means loss of money, which is not a sound business decision. No matter how much you might prefer the new system, it is has failed every time it has been tried from MoP's proving grounds to Cata's harder dungeons. I remember all the mea culpas from wow devs saying "ya know, people don't get better."

[@JumboCod91]

Having a low pressure environment where inexperienced players can feel like they have the freedom to learn mechanics at their own pace while actually being challenged by those mechanics is a game changer. The fact that these players are even being rewarded with heroic track gear in their vault is also a great incentive for them to push on and finish these keys, giving them even more chances to experience and learn.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya couldn't be happier with mythic zero. It's so nice for there to be some challenging content without a timer again too.

[@kopitarrules]

It was a lot of fun going in as an alt that was qualified for these zeros and twos. I almost felt like an undercover spy sneaking in somewhere I shouldn't be. Lol. Most of the time the hilarity came from me doing too much damage too quickly and pulling threat, that's why you saw me hold back when the tank kept going. I was like well I want to give him a good 5-10 second head start before I open up and delete these packs. (It had been an issue in every zero we had done before this.) All that being said I am so glad the system is working to teach people the dungeons. I do wonder, however, how well it will work in TWW s1. Usually we have 1 or 2 weeks before m+ and the raids open so there should be time for people to farm heroics and zeros and have fairly decent gear upgraded when the season opens proper. So they might actually be OVER-geared for the pluses when they start. Time will tell, though, in the end it always does.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

We shall see. Thanks for a great submission yet again!

[@Legionthecomrade]

I honestly have a bit of faith for once in WoW this time around and haven't had that since Legion because Dragonflight has just been almost constant positives. Practically every other IP has just been on fire but WoW has dodged just about every last bit of negativity I can give it and it seems like whoever has taken over is actually taking care of it. Played this game since 2007 and this is one of three expansions I have played all or almost all the way through because it was just enjoyable. The negatives this expansion have not really been that bad at all. If it's the same people going into War Within I think things will be OK. Certain things happening with the testing for next expansion have only reinforced that with seeing feedback given and immediately acted on. The current way dungeons are has felt very good. Glad we got all of them again for the last season. Not really the greatest fan of the crystal change on the final boss in Azure but I think that's all I can really complain about right now outside of Uldaman just being complete ass. I like the 10's having the additional affix. I like how the whole crest system is set up this time around. Dungeons are punchy but don't feel completely unfair outside of that one case. Good season to end the expansion on. On a side note I had a Halls with 28 sets of afflicted go off. Not 28 individual ghosts. 28 sets. The whole dungeon.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Wow is the best it's ever been and only gets better. Record those runs like that halls and send them in!

[@quintit]

The change is great ofc, but I almost wish they went a little further and put even +15-18s at the new m0. Low keys are still a little too afk imo

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Oh god, scroll through the comments here and see what others think of that hahah

[@allste626]

I quit in the middle of the last season as a healer main and I could possibly be tempted back if they made the unavoidable one shots go away this season. Seeing how much damage these avoidable abilities do on a 2 makes me wonder how much damage some of these non avoidable abilities are going to do in the highest keys when you have max gear. I'm scared they are going to make the aforementioned issue worse, unless they scaled down unavoidable mechanic damage specifically. Does anyone have any insights?

[@Matte8lack]

Usually those big chunks that you see are 90% of cases avoidable, remaining 9% interruptable and the last 1% bad tuning. There isn't really any ability this season that comes to my mind that the only way of dealing with it is using defensives/having high stam. Also again in highest keys those abilities dont matter as avoidable dmg/interrupts/stops prevent them and proper target prio results in those mobs dying before you run out of interrupts/defensives/etc. Also healing this season and compared to all previous seasons it feels much better. Definitely way better than what we had in s1-2 (mob dmg buff and player hp buff). Iirc they also increased the amount of stamina/hp we will get form gear this season without upping the amount of dmg on top of scaling.

[@allste626]

@@Matte8lack Hmm. I may go against my better judgment and try it out again.

[@DaveStarfire]

You can probably look at other people who run your spec in higher keys and see how it looks in a video. That's what I do.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Nothing will one shot you anywhere. It's usually a compounding issue with people missing kicks or not dodging stuff.

[@allste626]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Nice, I don't mind that at all, as long as it's something someone did/didn't do to cause the issue; I just can't stand the previous seasons design where there were just unavoidable one shots, left and right, in high keys.

[@chidy9699]

My only complaint with the new system is in regards to gearing fresh alts. The gear from heriocs isn't quite enough to go straight in to m+, but mythic 0 is on a lockout. The result is if you have bad luck especially, the jump from herioc to +2 is rough. Mix that with ppl setti g a high bar for +2s and it creates a real drag in the gearing process. I'm currently gearing a second toon and running in to this.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I'm not really buying the weekly lockout complaint. You get sooo much gear from zeros. No chance you did all ten zeros and don't have enough gear to do twos.

[@oscarwithers4599]

You can absolutely do +2s with 479 ilvl. The timer isn't tight at that level at all and you have enough stamina to live the unavoidable damage provided you respect the mechanics

[@chidy9699]

@@heythereguysitsMetro I tended to get 1 item per run in m0. I'm not saying it's a huge stumble, just a potentially unnecessary time gate. I'd personally like to see either the lockout removed or shortened. The other part isn't so much that you don't have enough bear, it's more a question of if ppl will take you. It's a little better now, but earlier on I had a really hard time getting in groups if I didn't run them myself.

[@chidy9699]

@@oscarwithers4599 yeah I think it's doable for sure, the bigger issue tends to be if ppl will invite or join you.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@chidy9699 ya always just do your own key when you are fresh.

[@MostlyFish21]

I have alot of trouble seeing the frontals in the first pulls of halls of infusion until you get to the first boss. Turned off scrolling combat text and still get murked 😔

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

My recommendation would be to add a sound queue to the spell cast in plater. Might get spammy though.

[@MostlyFish21]

@@heythereguysitsMetro thanks for the advice man 👍🙂 I'll try that out

[@Laptican]

In bfa season 3 (or 4 i can't remember what season corruptions was current) i saw people even time 18's simply because of how easy they got carried with their Twilight Devastation, Infinite Stars or Gushing Wounds. Many people probably can't remember how OP corruptions were but you could literally do 20's without having too much knowledge of the dungeon because you could literally get carried with the corruptions. Although i chose full vers corruptions (because they were omega bis for both vengeance and havoc demon hunter) i still got around 30-40% more damage from only corruptions.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

that's relatively standard stuff tbh. People getting carried by good dps. I guess in this case it was very easy to do that well, but it did require some work to get all the gear etc.

[@merenwen_gaming]

Yesterday I was in a group and the mage asked me for the route in HoI 😅😅😅 I replied: we turn right and then you keep pressing W… what kind of route do you want? 😅😅😅

[@kingtut8367]

What if he doesnt use w to move?

[@JevyJ]

A lot of high end groups go left and get the engineering battle rez so it's not really a weird question since lots of low-mid end key pushers watch high end content.

[@merenwen_gaming]

@@JevyJ you got 2 routes: left or right. Why should I waste my time doing a route when the question is: L or R?

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Ya that always frustrates me. I just tell them I don't have one. The best excuse I hear for it is they want to plan their CDs. Those are usually the guys who do 100k less overall that the other guys.

[@Wand422]

Nah it's a fair question, left or right there are still many ways you can pull it, one pull at a time, pull the entire first room into pull one on the left or right followed by priest skips after 1st boss, skip one dragon with shroud or pots by hugging a rock. Are we pulling the whole gauntlet or are we splitting it into 2 or 3 pulls? How should I save my cool downs to account for the danger of a specific pull? Are we pulling the 4 mobs in front of engi rez or are we going straight to a 10 pack pull instead, again gotta line up my CDs. If you think asking for a route in a linear dungeon is weird, you're just being uninspired and not aware of the amount of variety . Hell, maybe your tank is an echo fan and plans to put you in he frog gauntlet after 1st boss on the right side

[@taylansan]

+5 is by far the most difficult. When the affix dude spawns, we just run away

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Haha don't run, record!

[@chidy9699]

I think you should always go right at HoI start for the skip. The first checkpoint is at frog boss, so any run back s before and up to him are super long.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

This isn't really a video about that but I do agree there.

[@SoleaGalilei]

It's great to see this. I'm sure many "bad" players always had it in them to learn, they just never did because the game didn't challenge them.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

100 percent. Everyone wants to be better. The game just needs to push them to do it.

[@kingtut8367]

I just wish every dps played a healer so they know what mechs hurt and what mechs are priority to stun/kick

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Well this is not a good video to use as a sounding board for that haha. The healer needs to play spectator mode maybe.

[@lokihd123]

If people are dying to the mechanics that are super easy to see/dodge does that mean we’re headed back to where doing damage isn’t as important as getting one shot by the non dodge able stuff? And which is better for the game

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I don't think it's one or the other. It's just that keys are way harder now. Everything matters more and hopefully that will force people to learn faster.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro It won't because you learn nothing before stepping into m+ still as heroics have no mechanics and are easy and m0 is not really comparable to m+ still. In the video here, the same people are doing the same things that they did before and then quitting the dungeon. I fail to see any change? Those people got to M+ by progressing through the system that is supposedly intended to teach. Clearly it did not.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@s0515033 in the past they would still succeed even with these failures and it created a situation where players who clearly didn't know what they were doing were in high keys wasting other people's time. Covered it pretty heavily on this channel last season.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro The problem, is, again, the system cannot teach anything because pre m+ is too trivial to matter.

[@oscarwithers4599]

​@@s0515033I disagree. If the players in this video were playing a m0 halls instead of a +2 they would still be dying as the scaling is quite similar. The only difference being the lack of a timer and that each boss will drop loot when it dies rather than having to complete the whole dungeon (hopefully an incentive to keep going)

[@Kronosbattlemaps]

I cant even get into a +2. And I do similar dps to that monk. Need IO to get into keys. Need keys to get IO.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Luckily you have a key in your bags you can start with!

[@jayden4243]

Meh, I've jumped on after a few too many beers a couple times and have brute forced 4-6s on the VDH, 486ilvl

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

K

[@mohlol2456]

To me, it doesn't change anything. If you are wiling to learn now, you probably were willing to learn before the change. People still have friends or guildies to get them through lower keys. But I get your point

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

It's not about being willing. It's about being forced. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. A few comments here not understanding that so it's not just you.

[@buddybarlow9604]

Man i seriously hope this m+ system stays... i ts been my favorite m+ season in forever

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I see no reason it wouldn't.

[@cwilliams6884]

my only issue with the difficulty thing is that it doesn't really ramp up, the game just goes from faceroll easy to skyrocketing difficulty

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right that's what we want. The ramping is how the carrying issue happened in the first place. The game has wayyy too much easy content.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro That is not a good design, though, unfortunately. Going from 0 to 100 is counterproductive as it teaches nothing. What they need to do is buff the difficulty of heroics and m0 so that they are closer to m+. If the goal is truly to ensure better players and teach, then surely you would want to expose people to mechanics and difficulty earlier and more consistently rather than have either trivial or impossible. M+ 2 is not any more difficult than a 12 was, so nothing really has changed. You are just skipping low keys.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@s0515033 skipping low keys is exactly what we want! Sorry if I didn't explain that well.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro Yes and my point is that if the goal is to improve the player base by exposing them to harder mechanics that matter as a means of teaching them, the current system cannot do that. You need a smooth progression curve for that. Real people don't learn from going 0 to 100. By that logic, we should skip all precursor math courses and just go to diffy q. Further, you need early resistance for learning to happen. If the precursor content is trivial with no mechanics, you don't learn anything to move on. There were lots of key failures by people ignoring mechanics in those level keys and plenty of people used lower keys to learn mechanics to get better at higher keys, despite what you might say. There is no failure at all in heroic and m0. And thus no resistance or learning opportunity. You cannot fail heroics and it is almost impossible to fail m0. The new system sounds good only if you don't think about it more than a few min. The only way to salvage it is to make heroics harder too so you start early and reinforce mechanics you will find in m+. But even that is difficult to manage because you can't make heroics difficult enough to encompass the gap of 2-9.

[@cwilliams6884]

@@heythereguysitsMetro 100%

[@DaveStarfire]

I'm not sure the priest learned anything. Leaving the group is a bad sign. Sure, he might be dying alot, but leaving could mean he doesn't want to go through the effort to learn the rest of the dungeon, or he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. If I were dying that much I'd sure be embarrassed, but I wouldn't stop the run unless they wanted to replace me.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Right ya that's what I mean here. He didn't learn anything but he can't advance or go anywhere else. He will either need to learn or quit. To me, that's proof this is working well.

[@OldManDoom]

But the players who ARE motivated to improve won’t join your group or accept your request to join their group. Unless you group with friends, or started at max ilvl when the season started- you will sit for an hour waiting for a tank or healer to join your group. Even doing the 0s last week for the weekly was ridiculous with how bad the players are able to manage those basic mechanics. So now many pug players are stuck where they sit in queue for hours just waiting to play the game or they move on and do something else. Not everyone who this is effecting was a shitter

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I really don't believe this is an issue honestly. People just refuse to do their own key.

[@s0515033]

@@heythereguysitsMetro If everyone does his own key, though, the queue is full of groups of DPS with no tanks and healers. It is overstated how successful it is to run your own key if you are a dps. No one wants to join groups partially full of just dps. By creating your own group, you just dilute the pool and create more group competition. The real solution is not to pug.

[@Neurotik51]

@@s0515033 Been running my own key on my fury war alt, been a very easy time. Get 8 8s done each week np. I think you're just not waiting long enough to fill the group. 7s and 8s fill extremely fast. I agree that pretty much every complaint people seem to have on this video can be resolved by just running your own key. If you're not doing it for score it doesn't matter what dungeon it is. Tired of seeing people complaining about not getting into groups who also refuse to make their own group. Be the solution to your problem.

[@Dea7hWarran7]

It’s working! IT’S WORKINNNNG!!!

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

Exciting!

[@Flyt824]

Lol complaining about stand still and pressing buttons at an ai generated boss..... well I can't even get into a group for pve and I'm a 2300+ pvp player. Pve is filled with trashy crybaby nerdbois.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

I'd imagine that's because you suck at pve, based on that absurdly reductionist statement you just said.

[@grimfocusgaming4391]

People still get carried though. There’s several dungeons where I’m ripping 300-350k overall and then I see a dps doing 80k. Honestly people in my position should petty brick those keys because sub season 1 levels of dps is wholly unacceptable for even a 2. I’ve personally left 2’s where people clearly don’t know things like rotation which can be learned in a heroic dungeon. I don’t believe in free carries because it just kicks the can down the road and they don’t learn anything.

[@johnjohnny6702]

Or instead of ruining it for all, because of your ego, you could ask the player afterwards, if they want to improve. That's some dumb solo player mentality, and far more toxic than anything. There's 5 players in the group, not just you and the "person" you're carrying.

[@SmokerFace12]

Leaving 2's as a dps? You're just there for the crests if you do that type of damage, you can solo dps the dungeon as long tank/heal are alive and time the key still, why would you care if they have a +3 key after or a vault slot. I just laugh it off and stay for the entertainment, plus solo dps tryharding is kinda fun. Leaving 2's you get invited to is far more unacceptable than doing no DPS and dying on every pack/boss, unless its your own key. I have only left 1 key in season 1 and that was because some really rude DH and priest kept wrongly blaming me for them dying over and over (clearly their own mistakes) and kept trash talking in chat, it was the DH key too. (Priest would die every time to AOE pulses on last shadowmoon boss, DH wouldnt kill skull during walls, that for 4 wipes) But please dont leave 2's just because they suck while you can go godmode and carry, you got invited for that reason.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

My recommendation there is don't pug. Totally unacceptable for you to be leaving groups like that because you feel like you are better than those in your group. This is why pugging sucks, because everyone has this crazy ego yet are mediocre.

[@grimfocusgaming4391]

I mean if you’re shitting the bed on core rotation and pulling sub season 1 numbers in season 4, I don’t see any issues with not being willing to do an unpaid carry. Nobody is obligated to judge how I spend my time outside of myself. Period. The people getting bent over me not wanting to do unpaid carries are clearly clueless about expecting everyone on the team to show up with the basics ready. Enchant/gem your shit. Learn your rotation. Nobody expects perfection in rotation from +2’s like optimization of casts on the move while moving out of stupid, but 80k tells me you either don’t know the core fundamentals of your rotation or you are completely undergeared and still in mid season 1 gear, either way you chose to enter without farming gear or learning your rotation and that’s not a me problem.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@grimfocusgaming4391 please just stop pugging. This is so embarrassing man.

[@billjohnson2307]

These s4 changes suck & are the stupidest changes wow has done. I casually play keys like i could give 2 S***s about high end keys all i want to do is get ksm and bfore id just start the seaon messing around in +2- +5s and just slowly increase my rating by doing that to sorta cheese my io so im closer to 2k without having to have to do so many +15s as possible. Now i dont even wanna do a +2 because what used to be a casual trolly kind of run for me has turned into actually having to try in the key and this is just bullcrap for the casual side of keys who didnt give a crap to push keys rather to just get ksm or even just do keys for fun. You straight up pushed alot of people out of wanting to do keys because you had a couple "high" keys be messed up due to someone not knowing mechs. The reason he didnt know isnt because its a system failure its because the community is so stupid and instead of taking time to explain to the poor player who prob didnt know better how the mechanic works, yall would rather rage leave and move on leaving him still not knowing what he did wrong but also you prob just made him never wanna play again or do keys which means thats 1 less person signing up for keys who maybe could have added to an alrdy low % of playerbase doing but nope... community crap talks him and now hes prob off wow for good. Casual WoW players are the highest % of the player base and yall at the high end keep trying to kill it... but what ur truly doing is shooting yourself in the foot because if you remove alot of casual ur also removing a chance at one of those casuals maybe wanting to push the higher end but if u force them off the high end suffers because now theres even less people signing up for keys. So keep it up high end players keep talking smack to the new/learning players lets see how long M+ lasts when only 10 healers are queing per day.

[@ThomasBachler01]

why don't you just start with heroics and M0? You don't even have a time limit there, seems like an even better option for a casual trolly kind of run?

[@imshloodoo1]

I feel like you got this all wrong tho, and not really focusing on the actual context of the video seeing as this is more of a "high end players bad for game"-rant. Sure there are some elitist jerks who thinks themselves better than everyone else, but usually it's the clueless player who, as soon as they face some difficulties, leaves the group mid-run. Which is exactly what happens in the clip we just saw. How are you suppose to help players who obviously doesn't want help? If they did, they would have stayed, or maybe asked for help or even just try figuring out what they did wrong themselves. I've been new once, know what I did? Certainly not leaving keys as soon as things went to hell. RESEARCH! I am sure everyone who plays WoW knows what google is, or youtube. There are tons of guides out there both written and spoken with recorded footage, in depth guides mind you, on how to play your class/spec, guides on how to play each and every dungeon on that specific class/spec.

[@stuff4812]

@@ThomasBachler01 to me 2s are still insanely easy but i can tell that this change will lead to less people playing keys and possibly cause said people to just not play the game. anytime you increase the difficulty level of something by a big chunk, it causes the the casual majority of an mmo to not wanna interact with said thing. which is not good when said thing is one of the only things that people play the game for nowadays. since the open world is made so easy that even really bad players think its too easy but as the same time making the other options too hard to the really bad players

[@SmokerFace12]

Every dungeon has a quick 4 to 5 min guide on youtube, wich will explain the core mechanics that you can practice in 0's You can easily do +2 to +5's with that basic knowledge and minimum effort. Getting hit by a frontal (that is avoidable) of a Tyranical boss should kill you, simple If anything, this current system is PERFECT for your type of key gameplay

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

You basically confirm to me it's working with this comment. Sorry you are frustrated but if your solution isn't "get better" then you should not be doing mythic plus. This entitled attitude is an absolute PLAGUE on this game. I'd rather there be only ten healers (what kind of nonsense comment is that lol) and know every healer playing is trying their best than your "I'm casual and want the game to be easier" mindset.

[@flashyhooves1710]

This video is exactly showing it does not work. You want people to learn but the learning keys are removed. So people fail basic mechanics in this +2. M0 is not farmable or solo content so if you want to actually learn in M0 you need to find people who wants to stay with you for hours in a dungeon without any reward. It is just not working. Next to that i really do not give 1 crap about now playing +13's instead of +23's. Dungeons aren't accessable for new players anymore so the playerbase will slowly bleed out.

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

No, you are just misunderstanding what is being presented. I don't WANT people to learn, I NEED them to learn. They had years and years to "learn" in the "learning keys" and didn't do it. The new system now forces them to. And this key shows that in the clearest way possible. And yes, if the playerbase "bleeds out" instead of simply improve, they that is for the best. There are far far too many players doing M+ and not putting in the required effort.

[@billabong5366]

The main issue with the old system was that the "learning keys" only told you that you can stand in everything and suffer 0 consequences, meaning you actually learn nothing, now when you mess a major mechanic up you die and therefore learn

[@heythereguysitsMetro]

@@billabong5366 exactly!

[@flashyhooves1710]

@@billabong5366 I am fully disagreeing. I always did quite some of those keys to learn. Especially on alts or even off roles i never played. Are you telling me i was not learning? That is interesting. I even soloed a +2 DHT last season on my new guardian druid. Took 2 hours but i am pretty sure i learned.

[@billabong5366]

@@flashyhooves1710 you can still do that on heroic base difficulty (same as M0 in previous seasons, and the difference between an M0 and a 2 is negligible).