CRAZY Microgreen Density!! Broccoli Seed Density Experiment

[@3ddiev]

love how you evaluate the yield per gram of seed, would love more of this kind of content

[@pheotonia]

Your "Squishy Root Syndrome" happened when you unstacked them on day 2. The first 3 trays were directly on the steel table and tray four was in the green tray and not "Squished"!

[@RovingPunster]

Yeah, I cringed too when he did that. It was like 500 microscopic garden hoses all getting irreversibly kinked at the same time. If you must put em down briefly anywhere besides the tray, put them inside the lid rather than crushing the roots.

[@pauldacus4590]

2:30 Urg..I hate to be a stickler, but they are 50%, 100%, and 150% higher than normal.

[@OnTheGrow]

www.percentagecal.com/answer/25-is-what-percent-of-%20250 15 grams is 150% of 10 grams. You’re correct, it is 50% higher but you can say it different ways depending on how it’s calculated.

[@pauldacus4590]

@@OnTheGrow Hehe.. yes, but when my doctor tells me my weight is 150% _of_ normal, I know it's time for a microgreens diet. But when he says it's 150% _higher_ than normal, it's time to update my will :-)

[@TrabberShir]

@@OnTheGrow "150% of" or "50% higher than" No matter how it is calculated, 15 is not 150% higher than 10.

[@whiteknight7wayne493]

i noticed that

[@cabotporter7736]

@@OnTheGrow no, really you can't. if you say it is 150% of 10, that is 15g. If you say it is 150% more or higher than 10g, that is totally different. unless you are saying that 15g = 25g...

[@ScoobieMonkey]

Woah, this was great! On average, how much more water did #4 take vs #1? Did you go through the amount of water you expected with the idea that #4 is fighting each other for nutrients?

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Can you make a video talking about tips on growing a microgreens on a microbudget

[@allenmiller2071]

Using those trays is on a micro budget.

[@JahleeyahKalonji]

@@allenmiller2071 not really because you will have to buy them, using things around the house, that's microbudget

[@evanlove3015]

@@JahleeyahKalonji a microbudget doesn’t have a house dumbass I’m thinking trash wise

[@mitesh8utube]

Tray 4 gave you highest yield. Considering you spend 9 days to grow them, that's the most efficient. Cost of seeds is negligible.

[@sowingit]

Thank you so much for this video. I bought some of these trays a bit ago, since they fit nicely on my shelves, and am working trials myself. Would love to see more of your use of them. You guys rock!

[@chronos401]

Wow, I just finished a similar test as your first two trays with broccoli and peas. My results were similar to yours. It surprised me the higher density one did so much better. Didn't try the +100% and +150% densities due to concern they would have mold issues. Right now, I'm trying to replicate your indoor vs outdoor experiment. Next, I'll be experimenting with aluminum foil to reflect light. I watched a couple videos on how to prevent seedlings from becoming leggy using this technique. That got me to wondering whether bouncing light around using wrinkled aluminum foil would produce better results for microgreens.

[@OnTheGrow]

I love hearing that people are experimenting themselves! Thanks for sharing!! We’re actually about to start some more outdoor grow trials before doing another indoor vs outdoor. Excited to see the results! Yeah, reflectors can really help to increase the yield on your crops and prevent the leggy growth. Would love to hear your findings when you finish up your tests! 🤗🌱🌱

[@danielletourneau7943]

I know this is quite old, but I just received my first batch of brocoli seed, and I have plans to make a couple aluminum foil reflectors on cardboard to help manage legginess! Did you find it helped grow a better crop?

[@RayMak]

Microgreens are so delicious

[@davidlangan4902]

LOVED the video! Long live science. I grow for myself, not to make a living. Your efficiency measure was produce per amount of seed. For a commercial grower other important metrics would seem to be produce per cubic foot of grow space; and/or produce per minute of human-labor time; and/or produce per amount of coco coir used. All three of these "costs" (unlike seeds used) do not increase as you move to higher densities. Such additional metrics as these would make your higher densities look even more attractive for commercial growers!

[@halasimov1362]

Fighting for light causes more stem growth that is why your higher density seeding had higher yield perhaps.

[@KatherineTheGr8t]

OMG, I thought it odd why tray 4 would be so much taller than tray 1 (broccoli microgreens) and you make perfect sense. Yes all of the seeds in tray 4 are fighting for more space & light which explains why they are more "leggy." Great call Hal & for sharing your wisdom : D

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

U guys could make a video of trying out Household items as microgreen trays

[@JahleeyahKalonji]

yes

[@matthewgonsalves2479]

yes X2

[@OnTheGrow]

We can do that!! 🤗🌱🌱 I’ll start a video today on it!

[@Brad-99]

Im so excited to try micro green😁 but I only want to do like 2 tray set up for basically my own consumption ,can you guys recommend a 2tray set up or do you guys have a video on that Pls and thank you . I'm loving your channel 💖

[@karenpalmen1698]

Thank you. These are the trays I use. But, I am new to this and it is really nice to see what you are doing with them.

[@OnTheGrow]

Thank you so much for the support Karen Palmen!! We are going to be making new content soon! 😄

[@markward3506]

Nice Video as always, i have got some of these as well. They also do lids for that type of try so you could spray them black for the blackout stage. . Keep the vids coming well done you two :-)

why don't you try to make a tray with a stiletto blade at the end? so you could harvest faster, easier, everything would have the same hight, you would have less soil stuck and you would also have less waste, i guess... and it would be faster to package if the other side was like a funnel... i was thinking about doing that, but i don't know if it would work, so i didn't... but i don't sell... i plant just for myself... maybe it would be very helpfull for you...if you make it, please post!!

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Can You guys make a video where you possibly grow a microgreen to a fully matured plant?

[@dva_kompota]

Thank you for the great content! Can you please make a video on how you compost and reuse your growing medium?

[@kathleenjones1844]

Thanks for testing these trays. As a home hobby grower, these are the easiest for me. Don't much like that the coir can drop into the lower tray, and have considered using something like paper or cheesecloth between the mesh and the coir. Will the radicles or roots be able to penetrate a paper napkin or cheesecloth to get to the bottom water? Looking for easier cleanup for my living room windowsill setup.

[@OnTheGrow]

You can absolutely use a little paper towel or something to stop that from happening! They come with like a really thin paper for germination. I’ll start a new test trying them out with the coco and the paper to see how it grows! Generally, as long as the coco or medium is decently saturated, you shouldn’t see it drop through like that. Mine was a little too dry when I put it into the tray and that’s how we had so much drop through. You can also just use paper-towels instead of Coco and you’ll no longer have to deal with the mess! Got a video coming out Monday on using paper-towels. Thank you for your support! 🤗🌱🌱

[@allenmiller2071]

I have those trays, but when I add coco coir to that white top tray, a lot of the coco coir falls through to the bottom. I have stopped using the white part and put the coco coir into the green bottom tray. What are you doing to prevent the coco coir from falling through?

[@OnTheGrow]

If you slightly wet the coco before putting it into the tray, it will barely fall through. We’ve noticed that it only falls when it’s dried out... try wetting your coco a little more and it should bind together well! Not so wet that it is pooling or dripping, just a light watering!

[@danielcollins9628]

Hey good work man love your channel very scientific i was wondering if u have done a test with classical music as a variable

[@DanielBillingslea313]

Can I just live off microgreens? They are so delicious. How much of your personal diet are microgreens?

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

you can.grow off entirely microgreens if you eat enough

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Also much of my diet is like 43 percent microgreens

[@OnTheGrow]

We eat a tremendous amount of microgreens 😆 We eat them at basically every meal and in high quantities. I joked with Mandi about trying to live off microgreens only for 10 days to see if it is possible. I think it would be a fun challenge! 😆🤗🌱🌱

[@dodopson3211]

@@OnTheGrow call it a micro diet ;)

[@jefflinke2772]

Microgreens are probably one of the healthiest foods on the planet according to Spirit - the most nutritious food on the planet is supposed to be Wild Blueberries. Here are the benefits mentioned by spirit - one great thing they have is called Elevated Biotics which beat Probiotics with an Ugly stick and they have NOT been discovered yet - information you will not find anywhere else healing-health-notes.blogspot.com/2020/06/microgreens-and-sprouts.html

[@hming2009]

Thanks for this really cool video! Were there any concerns with watering using mesh trays with coco coir? They have a lot more holes than the 1020 trays you usually use right?

[@alarcon99]

I would like to see this experiment without a grow medium (coconut coir)

[@darrenleong7953]

Would you consider a brix test on top of the taste test. What is the temp. and humidity in the grow room? Thank you

[@LiviaCole]

Thanks for the well-produced informative video. What temperature and humidity are you using in your growing area? I am finding it hard to grow broccoli now in the summer without getting mold or root rot. Thanks.

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Great video, Also I have and idea for a video What if you try To grow The most Microgreens you can Under 20 Dollars i would call it Growing Microgreens On a Microbudget

[@markchauncey3416]

Just a thought, maybe it would be healthier for the root systems if you gave them space to grow. Don't know if you have tried that- just a thought 🤔

[@myinterestshared6512]

Will there be additional videos of growth differences of other seeds with application of 10, 15 or ~20 grams? Did purchase the trays after initially viewing of this video and am excited to use the trays of this size for home growth and use of harvest. Thanks and enjoy your explanations and insights.

[@OnTheGrow]

We will be working on more density trials for other crops, that should be coming soon! Glad to hear you're getting into this! Growing is so much fun and can be incredibly rewarding! Thank you for your support!

[@SOURJA472]

Hi CJ and Mandy! This is Sourja from all the way across the world in Kolkata, India. Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm starting my own Microgreens business and your videos have been so very helpful! Thanks for all the tips!

[@OnTheGrow]

Thanks for sharing and we are so happy to hear that you are starting your business!! We cannot wait to hear about your journey! Let us know if we can be of any help!! Thank you for your continued support!

[@khaniesue]

I seed 30 grams in a 1020 tray and have great growth and never any problems with damping off or mold. I live in Az so humidity is low on average and I also have lots of airflow in the grow space. I also do canopy spreading when I water my trays, basically I use my hands and spread out the canopy so light and airflow can get down in the space where it normally wouldn't. This I think helps with problems but also helps to increase yield by getting light to those small seedlings that aren't getting as much light and end up smaller and staying yellow. Great videos and information, love the experiments!

[@OnTheGrow]

The tray #2 is the equivalent of 30grams per 10x20 tray and it was the winner we chose out of this group, so good to hear you’re getting similar results with it! I will have to try some canopy spreading on a new grow and see how it works out... we have a current test running where we left “aisles” open between the seeds to allow airflow through and I’m curious how it will turn out. I’ll try out the canopy spreading to see how it works in our growspace... thanks for sharing! 🤗🌱🌱

[@paularindal3642]

Nice experiment! I bet you meant OCD, not ADD. Either way, I go nuts with those little "wild ones" too.

[@narnsw2]

nice video CJ and Mandi! will you do a full walkthrough for Parsley soon? thank you :)

[@thecakepopsistars]

Love the specificity you guys provide in your videos and the experiments. I’m learning so much as a novice home microgreen grower 😊

[@jenniferwalters579]

I came here checking for my 126 square inch tray I got from Amazon. I was doing 25-30g broccoli seeds for the 10x20

[@Wylielea]

Super interesting. And i have been considering these trays. So I was glad to see how they worked for you. Thanks!

[@penzcrazier]

Maybe the canopy on the more densely seeded trays are retaining more heat? I know you’ve done heat tests that show improved growth with added heat.

[@dbernardo7226]

Great step by step lesson! ... What are seed holes? ... Hypothetically, if Coco Coir were white or transparent (letting more light in), do you think it would that contribute to mold grow? ... TY

[@susanscovill6817]

I’d like to see comparisons between the types of trays. The first vlog I saw was the larger trays which had no issues or negatives. Can you compare them percentage wise for quality and harvest per sq inch. I’m asking because I’d like to know which tray product is better. The small trays seem to be lessor of the two. Cheers from Canader eh!

[@jeffhagel3970]

Great content! Do you feel those trays would work best with 12" deep shelving or can you double them up each row on the 24" deep shelf?

[@dioguiii]

Maybe with these trays is it possible to work with 12'' deep shelving ? in tiny places

[@adis.g6569]

Bought 4 of those trays, tomorrow start growing

[@OnTheGrow]

Excited to hear how your grows turn out!

[@johnharding2912]

Put some fish tank gravel in each bottom tray to reduce the needed water, it is inert and reusable. Also if you want to convert to a basic aeroponics/swc hybrid you can run small air stones in each to create aerated nutrient solution and a mist to the root mass (provided by bubbles of air popping). The gravel would help to keep these stones in place too, although there are other ways. Air would help reduce fungal problems too as it would be forced, in some proportion, up through the media

[@dennismason1187]

Brilliant. Are you using some sort of medium here such as coco coir?

[@timroberts430]

I really like the analysis, CJ. I noticed water dripping off the roots when you were harvesting. Is that good? If you were able to increase air flow might that help with moisture as well as strengthen stems? How many hours/day do you provide light? Do you have a cost and break-even analysis available? If a grower is limited on space and having difficulty meeting demand, it might pay to increase density. How do you two package and market? Enough questions and comments!

[@jefflinke2772]

Outstanding Video once again. Tray #2 yielded 15 grams per 1 gram of weight, that is really good - considering density. I would be interested in seeing some others like radish or peas - I am taking notes on this one, love these little experiments. Are you considering changing trays to this new one? Clicked on the link to TrueLeaf - what was the exact kind of Broccoli? Great video, thanks.

[@Freederick1]

Can’t help but think you’re damaging the roots just placing them directly on the table. Why not put them back in their green trays?

[@newworldbegins]

I ordered the trays and just received them. Just the right size for home growing. Thanks guys.

[@OnTheGrow]

Glad to hear that Richard!! We’ve loved them so far, especially for the price! Thank you for sharing and for your support! 🤗🌱🌱

[@LiviaCole]

which brand did you use? There are several that look very similar on Amazon.

[@jennw6809]

Interesting results. I noticed that the roots were all standing in water after you harvested... Maybe you need to adjust your watering amounts for these trays? Wonder if you can use peroxide for SRS Squishy Root Syndrome?

[@jimbro.]

HOW TO STORE THE SPROUTS? Does it need to be dry? How long does it store for. Freeze it?

[@RovingPunster]

Awesome ... i'm wondering if im undersowing my radish MGs as well. I'll try upping those 50% too.

[@davidman1666]

Hi, You said you got these new trays from Amazon, could you tell me which seller please? I've been looking at these trays for a few days but the delivery date was quite far into the future (Late July). Great video btw, love the density trial, not sure if you've tried this but if you do it with wheatgrass you probably don't need a medium and can go super high density. Thanks for all the super helpful videos :) Looking forward to more.

[@davidman1666]

@@drew4021 I've been wondering if a thin layer coco coir on top of a paper towel would work?? I was asking about the sellers as they all seem to take over a month to arrive and i was hoping someone knew a seller who delivered sooner.

[@Fitforlife9945]

great video! would these tray work for kale and pea shoot microgreens you think?

[@huguesdemol8308]

I have been using these Treys for six months, they are great fro the homeowner. Only thing I don.t like is light goes through if you use one as a black out cover. We do 4 treys every 4 days or so and have a constant supply of greens. There is also a deeper version of this same trey which I use for very tall greens

[@illadeligut]

So per this experiment #2 would be 30G per 10x20 tray?

[@karanusa2010]

The roots got pressed when you placed them directly on the table. Would be great to place all the stacked tray back to green tray instead of placing them directly on table

[@OnTheGrow]

Thank you so much for the Feedback Karan_KZbin! We appreciate your support! Karan_KZbin 😀We are so excited to announce that both our Microgreens Master Book and our first Microgreens Cookbook will be available very soon! 😃Please visit our new website at 0nthegrow.net for info and early sign up!!!

[@bullmccabe9717]

Experiment was corrupted from the moment you unstacked as you altered the seed density. Best cover with unseeded trays next time

[@marleenquesnel8191]

How do you keep the really tiny seeds from falling through?

[@jayantiom2155]

why do you blackout for 24hrs?

[@OnTheGrow]

It helps make the crop grow taller by restricting the light and causes the plant to stretch some as it tries to find the light. This makes harvesting easier later on and helps the microgreens stand up straighter.

[@amypalladino2584]

Same tray I just got. Only got one just to try it. Right now im ising it for a fodder tray for my quail lol

[@OnTheGrow]

They would probably do great as fodder trays! We’ve really enjoyed them so far for growing microgreens and I think they have a lot of potential. Thanks for sharing Amy 🤗🌱🌱

[@Fitforlife9945]

I have regular vegetable seedling trays, would i be able to grow kale and pea shoots in those? is it better if i fill the soil to the top since its higher than the regular microgreen trays so that it is easier to cut?

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Great video Btw What is ypur favorite microgreen to grow in summer?

[@stchoco]

Great video! very useful information. Thank you!

[@Margarita-dt5th]

Hydrogen Peroxide will keep mold away you should try adding it too the water.

[@GEOsustainable]

Basically, you got lucky. Because I see a lot of mold. Speed of harvest was your friend. This was still an excellent test. I learned so much.

[@litahsr.8226]

are u both vegan coz ur a pro with the blind test I want to try the micro/sprouts but i get nervous on the mold that's why i never tried it yet

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Great video, What microgreens do you recommend for beginners And that dont cost much

[@Mr25thfret]

Very comprehensive video. Thank you!

[@positiveandhealthy2728]

Great suggestions. We certainly have a lot more control over our health than we have been taught. Good habits are proactive activities that can lengthen our lives greatly.

[@harveymyers6391]

Out of curiosity, did you dry trays 3 and 4 in any way before your weight was taken? Based upon your comments the undergrowth had some moisture attached that would have increased the weight and artificially increased the performance.

[@harveymyers6391]

Asked this question too soon. You immediately mentioned this. My fault for not watching it all first. Sorry

[@davidlangan4902]

LOVE your videos!! May I request that as your tests reveal "better" answers that you update your table of suggestions to reflect what was learned. In this video you basically showed that a 1020 tray with 30 grams of broccoli seeds would be "better" than one with 20 grams, but in your table (recently downloaded) the suggestion is still 20 grams per 1020 tray. Thanks again for ALL of the wonderful work you guys do!!!

[@OnTheGrow]

Thank you so much for the support!! It really means a lot to us David Langan!🙂 Good eye David!!! This can be updated to clear any confusion.😉

[@fireflamefrankiefriends9848]

My favorite microgreen channel

[@deerew23]

Wait, when you put the the green tray over the microgreens for blackout, did you put the white trays over anything? Or was the roots just sitting on the shelf?

[@OnTheGrow]

Roots were just chilling on the shelf! We sterilize our shelved between grows so it keeps it clean!

[@sheilaegeland]

What's your soil?

[@OnTheGrow]

We're using this grow medium here: www.amazon.com/dp/B06W9F7XDY?tag=onamzonthegro-20&linkCode=ssc&creativeASIN=B06W9F7XDY&asc_item-id=amzn1.ideas.1TLPC82K82FZQ

[@treasuretreereynolds1764]

Awesome info as usual. We so appreciate all the work you do to educate all of us. Stay safe! 💜🌱💜

[@Cymru1987]

"15 grams of seed for every 1 gram of tray" Bruh! you blew my mind.

[@OnTheGrow]

😂 🤣 😋🌱🌱

[@ayeyebrazorf7527]

funny how you use "organic" nutrients like if they are supposedly "healthier" or worse "chemical free". For your record, that's as much of a chemical as water. So much ignorance of basic chemistry or biology.

[@OnTheGrow]

💚Thank you so much for the Feedback Ayeye Brazorf! We appreciate your support!

[@hyuknight5799]

great content man. it really get me into grow organic greens at my own home. keep it going!

[@HiltonT69]

Good video, but just need to point out that an increase of 0.1g/in2 to 0.15g/in2 doesn't mean that the denser tray is 150% higher than the initial tray, it means it is 150% of the density, or an increase of 50% over the first tray.

[@OnTheGrow]

Yeah, it was a simple mistake and didn't want to redo the video because of it. If you look at comments, you're not the first to mention it. I think everyone understood what was happening, but thanks for sharing. 🌱🌱

[@GH0ST369]

Freeze dry them to get best result on harvest density.

[@nasimshakeri3931]

Hi What do you do with cocoa leftovers?

[@04DynaGlyde]

What tips do you have for a beginner?

[@Ash.Crow.Goddess]

Hi. I'm the newbiest of newbs. Genuine question: Has anyone ever tried not putting them in blackout?

[@OnTheGrow]

Yes! They grow well, but we will notice more of a gap between those that were slow to germinate and those that were fast. When using blackout, you give the slower ones more time to catch up!

[@DuaGreens]

Thank you so much for this video.

[@bharatmaliya2587]

* your Maths is wrong at seed % * you should also consider the space that has used to grow every gram of Micro Green * and with that (Space) in consideration No. 4 was a winner

[@OnTheGrow]

Hmm?!! Possibly, a perspective difference.😊 Thank you so much for the Feedback Bharat Maliya! We appreciate your support!

[@bonilla2022]

~ S M A S H ! ~ that button.

[@emmavardanyan3860]

INCREDIBLE! THANK YOU!

[@mable5987]

I want these tray in India, how can I get them?

[@cheryltavares2757]

love this experiment, I haven't stuffed the grow media that full, but I have used basic kitchen (Bounty) paper towels when I ran out of hemp mats. that's just me growing for myself only.

[@squiddyzbattlecats1167]

Loved the Video Great content keep it up!

[@tuckerkerr4249]

Move more air to get rid of the yellowing

[@dioguiii]

Great content, Thanks. For someone starting today would you recommend this trays or the bootstrap farmer 1020 ?

[@OnTheGrow]

They are great if your really serious about long term growing and have the capital for it! If you are just getting started, I’d recommend the amazon trays to get rolling then upgrade as you get established with your business. The Bootstrap Farmer Trays are incredibly strong and durable, but they are quite expensive to get started with. It will free up a lot of capital to start with the other trays till you’re generating some revenue and feel comfortable upgrading. Personally, I’d start with the cheaper trays because there’s a ton of other stuff to buy when just getting started.

[@agakorit]

On The Grow thanks a lot for your help :)

[@Nick-B78]

Hi there guys. I’m only about 5 minutes on so far but wanted to ask specifically about the stacking of the trays. One of the things you’re worried about is the growth of mould and things in tray 4 but then go and place said tray right at the very top of the bunch and where surely small amounts of water will possibly travel through to at least tray 3, right? I understand you’re probably trying to save on space but surely this could cause cross-contamination? As I say, I haven’t watched the whole video yet but wanted to ask while I thought about it

[@OnTheGrow]

Cross-contamination is possible, but with sufficient airflow like we have in our space, mold isn’t really an issue. Generally in growing of microgreens, you will are tiny spots of mold in most trays from dead seeds. So, yes it is possible for cross contamination, but with sufficient airflow, mold can’t thrive. Even with the crazy density of tray #4, we still had no mold in the actual root/stem area. You can also treat with hydrogen peroxide and that will kill off mold and do no harm to your crop. Just make sure you stick to food-grade H2O2 if possible. 🌱🌱

[@Nick-B78]

On The Grow Ok cool. What strength of H2o2 do you use because it seems even the food grade stuff comes in various strengths like 3%, 9% and 12%. Thanks

[@sandyweaver6686]

for those of us that don't have a scale, approximately how many tablespoons of seeds go into these trays?

[@OnTheGrow]

I would suggest about 1/2 tablespoon to start and you can go up or down from there!

[@edjanemcbride3113]

are they growing in dirt or water trays?

[@drpk6514]

Well done!

[@HSBewley]

Did you use coco coir in the trays?

[@jandervina8631]

Nice new Diagramm Graphic

[@larrytyler5637]

You do an outstanding job in all your testing. Just one comment. I don't like the way you smashed all the roots flat as you stacked them and on the table.. That formation seemed to remain with them to the end. Also, can you please show us, in fine detail, what mold looks like. Thank you for all your outstanding instruction.

[@tanis1111]

Great channel thanks a lot! 😀👍🌱

[@OnTheGrow]

Thank you for the support Tanis 🤗🌱🌱

[@evelynlouise2399]

the seeds themselves have nutrients so with them pack in like that, produces a lot more nutrients, may be causing a burst of growth... just another theory😊

[@mindfulmadeline]

I just started a microgreen garden. I was using the weight of a different plant, from another video for arugula. So I put in 1 1/2 ounces, which if my math is right 48 grams? Into a 10/20 tray. It is so thick and crazy, and a little of the medium got caught and pushed up, but so far no mold or other issues. But I’m thinking they are smaller than they should be...