Open Worlds Are Rubbish

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Music: Brahms - • The Best of Brahms
Open worlds are rubbish, and they need to evolve to survive. What is the natural evolution of open words? What is the nature of the open world experience? Is it a playground? Is it a content delivery system? How do you use the open world in an RPG?
Let's take a look at Oblivion, Gothic 2, and Final Fantasy 15 and try to figure out why a game Like Mafia 3 fails to deliver an entertaining experience, and GTA 5 manages to deliver on more than it needed to.
Let's answer all these questions shall we?
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[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Good points but annoying how obviously desperate for views you are. The title alone is there to trigger folks when in reality you love open world games and only hate certain things about them but for the most part you're digging the shit out of them.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

What gave you that impression?

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Because the title alone is there to trigger folks when in reality you love open world games and only hate certain things about them but for the most part you're digging the shit out of them.... You know. What I just said lol. Why ask a question that I already gave you the answer to? Maybe I should go into more detail since you're struggling here. Here's another way to answer that question. Not having a title that sounds more like this... "Open world games are kool and all BUT..." : ) But you don't have to ask me that question alone. Go ahead and respond to the tons of people in the comments who said something similar about you lololol. Here. Let me show you so you don't have to bother scrolling down lol. "This whole video can pretty much be summed up by "All open world games are bad except the ones that aren't" which means this video is largely pointless. Also Gothic 2 and FFXV really don't seem to be open world games based on what you are showing us. They both seem more like games with large interconnected closed off areas." "3:50 to skip the massive pointless monologue." "I personally disagree." "The problem with the video is he is positing his opinion as an objective standard, then implying that if you want what is best for video games, you'll agree with him." Many good points you didn't bother to respond to but thanks for responding to mine lol. But hey... I see that you're ebegging with patreon and what not so. Good luck to ya man. Maybe you can make a few thousand bucks a month from internet rantings about gaming lol. I personally think you kind of suck and make a big fuckin deal out of stuff that's not really a thing but whatever floats your boat boss : ) You do make some good points though even if your fake outrage is showing a bit much.

[@JeanLucMG]

Wow, the fact that you took the time to write this just proves how sad and bitter you are. Calm down, buddy.

[@DarknessEmpireLeader626]

Here for comments.

[@cb4281]

Opinionated titles might trigger some, but that isn't clickbait, its an effective tool to open a dialogue with your viewers. This guy obviously put a lot of thought and time into this video, and it's entirely understandable that he would want to begin a discussion in the comments with his title. I do understand your frustration, but I think you're being a little harsh with your judgement.

[@acetraker1988]

modern open world = maximise player game time while minimising required content creation....

[@civilwarfare101]

Linear games are better.

[@meurer13daniel]

Ubisoft and their goddamn question marks

[@ginge641]

@@civilwarfare101 Well they're certainly a lot easier for devs to get right.

[@civilwarfare101]

@@ginge641 And they are better.

[@ginge641]

@@civilwarfare101 No, they're just easier to make better. COD is linear, but it's blatantly worse than the Witcher 3.

[@itch433]

It's a shame, that most people are pretty much satisfied with any empty and repetitive game world, if it is vast enough. I often hear those "I hope new TES will be twice as big as Skyrim!" and immediatly realize that in that case the game would probably be even worse lol. I think people, who the open world games are sold to, are just easily fooled by an illusion of depth, that most of those games tend to create. When you play Skyrim for the first time, see the big map, talk to some npc, do some random activity like chopping wood (which turns out to be completely pointless, but you don't know that yet), it's only natural to think that the game must be thought out and designed very good, that it has every it's aspect perfectly polished and such, when in reality it's just a "normal world" game that has it content simplified and stretched.

[@dangdudei1506]

Way to oversimplify Шломи Кагерман's statements. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the hell out of Skyrim. But Skyrim, and games like it, suffer in depth because it attemps to create a world numerically larger than the previous game(s). What I mean by depth is purpose, motive and intentions. Skyrim has a huge world with lots of stuff to do, but those things you do often come with little or no purpose. Npcs rarely show human intentions and motives. What do they eat? Why are these people here? Why do I have to kill bandit #135?

[@itch433]

Henry Waters, I never said that you are wrong to like Skyrim. How is it even possible to wrongfully like something? It's not like it's your concious choice, it's just the way your taste works at the current time. All I said is that you are fooled by the illusion of depth (this is also just my theory btw, feel free to prove me wrong), because apart from simplified writing and broken game mechanics, illusion of depth is something TES games always tend to get working. And if you don't like the word "fooled", then may be you just have a good imagination and what Skyrim has to offer is enough for you to start playing a much bigger game only in your head. This is how I enjoyed Oblivion when I was a kid and considered it my "favrioute game" for a while, can't do it anymore though. Also, Skyrim sucks and no amount of words can explain how much I hate it :> doesn't mean you shouldn't like it or anything, just putting it out here, for the internet people. I do like color pink though, it's my favorite.

[@valdimardotof930]

The video: barely mention Skyrim Top comment: illuzion of depz. Skyrim has became a punching bag for pretentious gamer who think that they are smart and smarter than other. I consider Skyrim a great game because it has a great balance between gameplay and muh stozy, the narrative is there in the background and you may or may not care about it while having a lot of fun running around.

[@itch433]

the video: open worlds top comment: illusion of depth in open world games seems legit to me. and yeah, apparently skyrim is only played by easily impressed children like you and pretentious smarty pants like me and not a single normal person that is not defined by some stupid stereotype. but anyway, what I meant is that I expect an open world game to be interconnected. Open world in Skyrim only means giving the player choice to explore content in any order. There is no "I better do an easy quest to recieve a good weapon to do a dangerous quest after" or "This town is starving so this is a good time to make good money by selling food here" situations. I have a ton more issues with Skyrim, but this is the main one - this open world doesn't have a purpose.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

Шломи Кагерман you need to play The legend of Zelda Breath of the wild

[@SantosOverlord]

funny thing is how can gta5 be a lot bigger yet feels a lot smaller then gta san andreas

[@Roadman1000]

BC in San Andreas you have 3 different cities, a countryside, and a desert. GTA V just clumps Los Santos and Blaine County together without any real effort. Sure it's bigger but driving from Los Santos to Las Venturas actually feels like a road trip, with small towns in the countryside, and a world that is natural instead of artificial.

[@SantosOverlord]

@@Roadman1000 exaxly

[@Geekezf]

@@Roadman1000 You also had : Casino, and owning one aswell, Gym, body management (being skinny, fat, muscular, or fat and muscular..) Dancing at the night club, girlfriends, different fighting styles, the 2nd most memorable OST (vice city still get the 1st place for me), cities had their own identities. The antagonists where actually dispicable from the begining (Tenpenny) The story was better aswell. A better yet still anecdotic properties management..

[@Roadman1000]

@@Geekezf You hit the nail through the head and into the stomach good sir. GTA V is lifeless

[@ImOblivious]

On the subject of what you're talking about at 24:53, Kingdom Come Deliverance has probably my favorite alchemy system to date. Early alchemy levels you have to manually brew potions. Meaning you have to boil the liquid, cook ingredients for specific times, add them at certain points. It's really incredible.

[@DocFlamingo]

I disagree on the density point. I want a VAST open world and a fair amount of empty (though interesting) space. It breaks immersion for me if there is an encounter every minute. I want to feel like I am exploring an area. That said, the way the space is used is of paramount importance. I think GTA3 had one of the best maps ever in a game in terms of how the space was used. It was extremely small as these things go but it FELT much larger than it actually was because the space available was used so well.

[@ArsenalsJack1992]

DocFlamingo I'd agree completely if you said GTA San Andreas

[@DocFlamingo]

Also an excellent map. I chose GTA3 for the example because, compared to San Andreas, it is tiny but feels quite big.

[@sonicadv27]

To be honest, you could say the same about the first three 3D games, III, VC and SA. All perfect examples of open world gaming.

[@rikacomedyletsplays2581]

DocFlamingo your playing a VIDEOGAME, their is no technical way to program every situation you'd encounter in a city, it be like programming a human brain.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

But then again, if density = (content) / (map area) then it is an average value. In the end a game can be dense and rich while still leaving empty space where it makes sense.

[@BroImLeandre]

GTA: San Andreas used the space on the map better than any other GTA. There was so much variety and possibilities.

[@joseotero9802]

What? gta sa map was boring as fuck and side stuff were boring too.

[@BroImLeandre]

Jose Gregorio Otero Rather it was boring or not is totally subjective.

[@joseotero9802]

Well, side stuff werent that boring since it had use in the game, but the map, long deserts without nothing and forest, but if theres something i liked it was going in a road trip and listening to rock.

[@joseotero9802]

But i respect your opinion.

[@SumDumGai5]

BroImLeandre "Whether".

[@steelytemplar]

I realize that everyone's situation will vary, but I suspect that I am not the only person who may find open world games a bit frustrating because such games don't fit well with game/life balance , especially for someone who has a full-time career and a family. I am a gamer and not a casual one. I like my gaming experiences to be deep and complex. And, yes, I am willing to put some significant time into a game. But I also have quite a bit in my life outside of gaming which needs my attention and to which I honestly want to give my attention because these things are meaningful to me. So what I really want is a deep but *focused* gaming experience. A fantastic example of this is Alien: Isolation. I would definitely not call this a casual game. It has depth and requires some serious thought in how you approach various scenarios. It did not waste my time with trivialities or needlessly traversing large areas, yet I personally never felt like I was overly confined to a sort of "plot railroad". I could split up my play time into sessions which made sense for my life, but each session was worthwhile and engaging. I would really like to see more games with that kind of focus.

[@Skumtomten1]

I agree completely. I also honestly miss games that had "levels or missions" that you had to go through. It seems most modern games try to create one continuous mission over the course of the entire game, like an rpg, instead. The mission structure created alot more focus for me, like the old Bond games where you complete a mission you immediately get to start the next one, skipping pointless travel time and even time in general between each mission. You could then go back to your favorite missions and complete just them while trying to get certain achievements, with a continuous mission structure you can't really get to a certain point in the game unless you have a specific save for it. I guess as we get older, we have less time to waste, especially on video games, so when we actually play them we want something immediate, while still offering depth and complexity to challange ourselves. I get alot more anxious when playing games these days, if I did something that had no purpose or enjoyment in a game, my anxiety seem to grow knowing that I should probably be doing something more productive at the moment, I din't get this feeling when I was younger.

[@tyenevins6208]

They do demand a lot of your time, that much is undeniable. I mean it's possible to beat skyrim in between 5 to 8 hours if you decide to lower the difficulty or if you're running a really good build bit that's really not how the game was intended to be played. Also the main quest isn't the highlight of the game either.

[@tyenevins6208]

If it's neccesarry to rush through a game you're almost certainly better off with a story driven, linear single player game. I think rogue likes promote work life balance pretty well because typically a run could last anywhere from five minutes to a bit over an hour.

[@Memoquin]

The evolution of open worlds is for game devs to make linear games again. So many games are open world that shouldn't be, and it negatively impacts those that should be.

[@dangerens]

Cool that you mentioned Gothic, there are not many people who know it in the english-speaking gaming community. I can draw a map from memory as well, it has grabbed me as well :D

[@StratEdgyProductions]

It's one of those gem games that, if you can look past the warts, is a really great game.

[@dangerens]

Strat-Edgy Productions Oh yeah, that combat... Still better than Gothic I, but nonetheless painful. But I have accustomed myself to it, and it is definitely bearable for what it gives in return.

[@MrMoustacheish]

dope

[@peddazz2365]

the combat was fine and better than at least 50% of trash that we get from other games you have a block attack chains which need more than just mindless button smashing you can dodge there is ranged combat with bows and crossbows (it sucks tho xD) and there is a great magic system (transforming into other creatures, cool magic effects with great varity both in visuals and usefullness) if you look at it from a bit further away you can see that it has quite a bit to offer it needs some skill, offers great varity and has good visible progression player power wise also that different wapons and elemental dmg is effective against different type of enemys is also very nice bows -> wolfes, bloodflys etc. *need to clear that cave with 5 skeletons which two hit you? -> just get some scrolls of "holy bolt" or "destroy undead" and they are fucked (not entirly sure how they are called in english I only played it in german) planescape torment that game had bad combat gothic was a bit clunky had some great stuff some bad stuff and was overall pretty good (in terms of combat) for 2004 (?) and it hold up

[@benq994]

Gothic has a large fanbase in Poland. Many streamers still play it. There is also plenty of polish gothic machinima vids most of them are very funny. That game created very nice atmosphere. There were no good or evil indicators like in fable or mass effect but wrong choices often led to consequences and in the begginning exploring the world was captivating but dangerous. Im glad i was a kid when it came out so i could fully experience this story without thinking bad about it's graphics. Have a good day.

[@TheReapergod36]

3:50 to skip the massive pointless monologue.

[@MicrowaveBackground]

More like 26:43 to skip the massive pointless monologue am i right ;D

[@ANT309804]

Thanks

[@johnward6361]

this should be comment #1

[@H.EL-Othemany]

Thx

[@NanomachineExE]

anyone who can't appreciate 00:01-3:49 has shit taste. This dude should be writing for film.

[@marlboroman1985]

Wait, so you "would rather have a smaller world with more engaging content than a beautiful, big empty world," and rather have "a smaller world with less to do than a huge world with meaningless content that's just there to keep me from getting bored"...and you think GTA San Andreas is a revolutionary game? Did we play the same San Andreas? I seem to remember inane trucking missions, pointless basketball and dancing mini-games, and driving around in circles to impress dates for no apparent reason than to fill up a romance-meter. The Bigfoot urban legend was started because 80% of the environment in that game was devoid of literally anything but shrubs and rocks. Wouldn't SA be the antithesis to the perfect open world you describe?

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Yes, but you forget all the immersive sim parts to that game like holding gang territory, recruiting gang members, dating (which you mentioned), eating and not working out making you fat, the character progression like shooting more making you better at shooting, driving makes you better at it. It was revolutionary simply because it was the first open world of that size that also tried to do all those things. They weren't successful at all of it, but they tried. And yeah, it would be the anti-thesis of what I am talking about. Deus Ex Mankind Divided would be the Thesis, sort of, in terms of size, but not in terms of gameplay as it is not sim enough to fit the criteria.

[@Halo3machenima]

But most "sim" mechanics in games are often there just as a gimmick. I would rather have a few unrealistic mechanics than a bunch of boring busywork. I don't care about dating a virtual woman, or playing basketball, or working out in game. I just want an immersive experience where all of my time is spent completing missions, interacting with interesting characters and just exploring the amazing game world in general. There is no need to inject real life into a video game.

[@GraveUypo]

Ricardo Santos yeah the dark brotherhood questine in oblivion was by far and away the best questine in the latest 3 games (haven't played draggerfall and the other one, so i can't say anything about those)

[@mistergibzzz1948]

@@StratEdgyProductions what they're trying to say is that you're full of shit mate

[@davidross5640]

I have the solution for you. Do it right! Something that people seem to be totally lost on is that each and every sequel to each and every game is a totally new thing on a new engine. I have a revolutionary idea, what if we made one game on one engine, and each sequel was built upon the last... Think about it, how great would it have been if Oblivion was done really well, the open world was made with quality by one team, while another focused on a good plot line that setup the game world and introduced you to everything while still delivering something that the player wanted up front. The sequel, would take that already existing world, throw a huge dynamic of over arching plot line that can take you through a few more sequels, give you enough story to make this addition purposeful, then further enrich the open world space that much more. The majority of work that is done in these open world spaces, is creating the spaces, so what if we just made a space once, then developed it over and over to make it better and better.... DO IT RIGHT!

[@andrefinger5124]

Shocked to see the Gothic in here, most people don't know of or ignore the series, but I point to Gothic 2 as a relatively early open world that most current titles can't live up to. I think before BOTW, I would have called it my favorite open world title. Not necessarily because it's the best game altogether, but because the world seems to exist for a purpose. The combat absolutely is trash though, and so is the English dub. Good thing I'm German.

[@rilay4.071]

This is why Sims 3 will always be the best video game ever made in the history of man kind.

[@bluelobster56]

one word: money what you are talking about is such a niche market, devs and distributers would never recoup the investment. just check the progression of games... they may start off beautiful, thoughtful, require effort to gather achievement. later versions are bent towards appealing to the mass audience... dumbed down, less thought or work required, more quick action. mass appeal == more money. I want what you want, I've just resigned myself to appreciating what I can get. gonna check out Gothic 2, thanks for the referral !!

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Be aware. The combat is hot dog shit and the gameplay balance is all over the place, but it's rewarding if you can stick with it.

[@jemolk8945]

RD Simmers I would say this isn't true. Look at a game like Minecraft or LoL. They've got a larger audience than any given entire AAA franchise, yet the focus is on gameplay, whereas AAA publishers tend to focus on graphics. I think I've figured out why, too. It's not a larger audience they're going for, but a more gullible one. They want impulse buyers, not carefully thought-out purchase decisions. Why? Because with a sufficiently high-quality CGI trailer and no reviews pre-launch, you can guarantee that there will be a certain percentage of impulse buy preorders, and that some of the people who did that will become invested in defending their decision to buy a shitty game because they just couldn't have made the wrong decision. The strategy isn't seeking an audience that will happily pay enormous amounts, even though that would likely get them greater profits, because that takes greater effort and at least some minimum level of risk. They want the guaranteed fast cash of gullible sheep because it's low effort and the risk is nearly zero. I do, of course, expect this to backfire, hard, in the long run, but the executives won't care, because by the time that happens, their great-great-grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives off the money already made.

[@mlroshi3240]

Leauge is P2W for kids to think they're better than others by buying shit first (or gullible), so not the best comparison but yea it fits.

[@chadgoings6336]

we need to start taring and feathering dev like this. They should be publicly shamed due to bad ethics in design.

[@shun2240]

Chad Goings most of the time its the publisher's fault not the developer

[@asdddddaaaaaaaaa]

Your mountain story reminded me a time I was adventuring through a frozen area in a latest Zelda with no torch, little to no food and no proper clothing looking for freaking tower. This was one of the best moments in my gaming experience.

[@galloviking4766]

It's interesting to watch this video after Death Stranding has been released.

[@spencerdickson4404]

I was literally about to say the same exact thing

[@therealbahamut]

Part of the reason we remember some games so well is because we HAVE TO. Morrowind, gothic, etc, all have tools to help us navigate, but require us to USE them. Skyrim, Oblivion, the Witcher, etc. all lead you by the nose with the floating arrow trick, removing any need to learn the map and remember notable locations. We don't build any connection to the world or have any reason to enjoy it because we're being taken on a tour instead. I agree with your notion of trying to simulate the randomness of life a bit more in OW games. My current Skyrim mod list kind of aims for that and I'm finding it refreshing. Chronicles of Elyria is planning to do precisely what you're describing, in that it's doing away with much of the abstract theme park elements and creating a world more dynamic and alive. A lot of their crafting/profession type features are being made minigames in their own right. It's far too much to describe what they're doing here, but go look them up. You won't be disappointed.

[@therealbahamut]

The funny thing about the "size" of open worlds is that it's not only relative (let's face it: I used to walk further to school every morning than the time it took to walk across skyrim) but here's the crucial phenomenon: any form of fast travel, including things that just increase your movement speed, effectively SHRINK your world. Think about it: how huge did Skyrim look when you first loaded it up? Massive. You felt the epic scope and overwhelming scale immediately...but the first time you warped from Solitude to Riften with the press of a button, that massive scale vanished, completely obsoleted by free teleportation to anywhere you wanted. Carriages were obsolete wastes of money once you'd been to the holds. All the boats in Skyrim were nothing more than props. The college of Winterhold would have been ripe for a teleportation service, but who would bother? We just point to a spot on the map and WHOOSH. Morrowind kept at least a semblance of scale even to the late game because you at least had to learn WHERE you could "teleport" TO and FROM. you still had to have at least a little respect for the layout and size of the place in order to jump to where you wanted. Finding A new mage's guild, imperial cult shrine or Almsivi temple was quite a blessing, as it expanded your travel network in hostile lands. Finding a ring which let you jump between Sotha Sil, Mournhold and Vivec was a true treasure. As for content, well, that's also relative. I always found my Morrowind hours quite full of things to do, both game-directed and self-invented. While Oblivion and Skyrim had DIFFERENT content, due to the changes in skills, physics, fast travel, NPC capabilities and that damn handholding compass arrow, I disagree that there was "less" to do in Morrowind.

[@Reybeeem]

therealbahamut I loved the witcher.... :(

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

therealbahamut except The legend of Zelda Breath of the wild

[@PaulXPZ]

therealbahamut not to sound like a fanboy but you can turn off the map and quest markers in whitcher 3

[@theuserwithnoname7688]

Yeap I played the witcher with everything turned off except the health meter and it was much more immersive and fun, made me memorise the landscape, also never fast travelled at all (unless it was between areas of course which is unavoidable).

[@Drako1777]

The new Legend of Zelda made me remember why I like open worlds. It's no life simulator, but an adventure simulator. Sometimes I just get distracted by a bunch of trees in the distance shaped and weird way and feel actually compelled to go and check it out. And even if nothing is their, SOMETHING usually happens that doesn't make it feel like a waste of time. I had to scale a cliff face, or fight a camp of monster, or I find a puzzle to solve. Finding koroks or mini bosses or shrines reward you for this kind of exploration if something is in those patch or oddly shaped trees. And while it's greatly beneficial to find and complete these encounters, it's not at all necessary. In fact, after getting out of the starting area, I went straight to the final boss in the game because Nintendo told me I could if I could manage it, and I wanted to call their bluff. And I fucking did it. I got one shot whenever a single enemy would breathe in my direction, but that was a highlight of my play through and it all reinforces the sense of freedom to explore. If you want to hunt koroks or shrines or special loot or hunt bosses, you can. If you want to do side quests, you can. If you want to cook, you have figure out a recipe, but you can. The game isn't perfect. But the open world is pretty damn close in my opinion. Great video by the way:)

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Yeah, and I am willing to bet that there is a deliberateness to the design of the areas, though I haven't played it yet to find out. THings aren't just randomly placed on a randomly generated height map, and thrown together hastily. Though, I could be wrong as I haven't played it yet.

[@Drako1777]

Strat-Edgy Productions My bad, I edited my comment after you relied because I didn't realize anyone respond. But yeah man, I listened to an interview Nintendo had where they set up a system in their beta to track players and the progress they made through the game world. And whenever an area wasn't getting any attention, either because it was out of the way or didn't look interesting, then they would go and add something in deliberately to encourage exploration. Great game overall. I'm having a lot of fun with it.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

Brady Benedict holy crap! I found a user talking about the legend of Zelda Breath of the wild

[@Excalibur5k]

nintendo has plenty to learn with their new open world direction for zelda, but they did a pretty darn good job for their first open world (not counting xenoblade x) with how you go about exploring without tons of way points. i think if they had better side quests and more types of things to do aside from shrines and seeds, they would have the open world thing mastered.

[@sinistergrey3]

@Misha, The original LOZ was the 1st open world sandbox game....so I think they had it "mastered" a long time ago, albeit constrained by the NES tech of the time, nothing else was like it......so they sort of went back to basics with BOTW (the creators stated as much, hell they even did a mock up of the engine AS an NES format before anything else to fine tune the game mechanics)....so it's kind of weird to say "they would have the open world thing mastered"....just saying.

[@adamtr1026]

I always used non levelled list mods for these games, so exploring becomes scary and you get genuine suprises/challenges.

[@gatla4695]

The intro is too long imo

[@NanomachineExE]

It makes a point. Noticing the finer details of an "open world"

[@silenthilldude]

you know what I hate most about open world games? that anytime that one releases people immediately bitch about it because it's not like GTA

[@SilverMe2004]

Really people did that with Skyrim, Fallout and The Whitcher?

[@ElaborateTiger]

Ah, I remember when Oblivion first came out I had to call it a "medieval version of San Andreas" to convince my friends to play it.

[@user-og6hl6lv7p]

True, but you can't blame Rockstar for raising the bar so high though. Other companies simply need to pay more attention and catch up

[@ncshuriken]

Maybe you meant to say "anytime a GTA clone comes out, people bitch that its not as good as GTA", which is reasonable because I and many other people will tell you there are no GTA clones as good, or better than GTA. There are some that came close to being "nearly as good" (EG Saints Row 2, & True Crime 3, AKA Sleeping Dogs, both great) but they still paled massively in comparison to GTA in terms of production quality, solidity of gameplay, mechanics, level of detail, voice talent etc. I've yet to play a single GTA clone that DOESN'T have horrendously bad driving mechanics, and in a GTA style game, that is extremely important so it stands to reason, people WILL complain if its shit. Maybe one day some other dev will learn what it takes to make a truly AAA GTA clone, but as the past 20ish years have shown us, thats not very likely.

[@TadRaunch]

I don't know a single person with more than a brain cell who made that comparison.

[@mychem20]

witcher 3 has gone above all of these open world games, side quests are interesting, progression makes sense, world doesn't feel empty, there's always interesting stuff to do.

[@Donbd83]

I am looking forward to Kingdom Come Deliverance, the world looks lovely.

[@EvilWiffles]

I feel the world is rather empty.

[@mychem20]

aye, me too! i hope it don't suck. Please don't screw up Kingdom Come

[@ivansalamon7028]

I disagree. Its not empty. Not any more than our real world is. Its full of beautiful flora and fauna, if not more interesting things. Witcher 3 has a stunning open world, but it is still fairly gamey and does some things wrong.

[@mychem20]

of course it feels gamey, it's a fantasy world! they're not aiming for realism and I'm glad they didn't because too much realism would be really boring

[@Barada73]

I remember playing games back in the early 1990s and it seemed like every other game was a side-scroller. It got so bad that I started to wonder what the point of having four directions on the control pad was, when you only ever used one, maybe two, of those directions on most games? Of course, now side-scrollers are a cool, nostalgic throwback to a simpler time, but back then a side-scrolling game was pretty much the hallmark of lazy and unispired game design. Obviously, there were still some great side-scrollers released in the 90s (Donkey Kong Country, Super Star Wars, Super Mario World, etc.), but for every one of those there seemed to be five generic side-scrollers. My point being that it's not the format that's flawed. It's what developers choose to do with that format that matters. Personally, I love the open world format. I'm not a fan of games that put you on rails or give the illusion of an open world, but then just drive you forward from one objective to the next. I prefer to have the freedom to just explore the game, admire the designers' craftsmanship, and tackle the game's objectives as quickly or as slowly as I see fit. I play games to relax and have fun, not to add more stress to my life.

[@voodoodolll]

This video made me appreciate the fact the Bioshock Infinite, one of my favourite works of art, got cut down from an open world to semi-open. It really stream-lined the **beautiful** pacing of the story and gameplay but still allowed time for exploration and soaking in the _even more beautiful_ environment and atmosphere.

[@jeremyallen492]

The Bioshock Infinite we got was closer to shit finger painting than a "Work of art"

[@voodoodolll]

@@jeremyallen492 Ah yes! Hyperbole! Such wisdom and insight from someone so clearly articulate! No srsly find the nearest building and jump

[@vault1021]

That game was fucking trash bro

[@shastealyomeal]

Infinite was downgraded in every way

[@dcaseng]

Open worlds are not rubbish, DEVELOPERS are rubbish. You don't blame the cow for a shitty steak, you blame the COOK. Developers have become lazy, and focused on maximizing profits, which unfortunately means the focus has shifted from creating the best possible product, to spending the least amount of resources as possible, while still charging the same amount of money. Open World gaming is about freedom and variety. How much of that is up to the developer, and more often than not, these developers have chosen to cut and paste worlds that end up being repetitive and empty. Rockstar is the greatest when it comes to open world gaming, because they spend whatever it takes to develop a game that feels exciting and full of life. I still play GTAV on an almost daily basis, and Red Dead Redemption is one of the greatest games of all time. There are many shitty open world games, but that is due to developers who simply don't have the freedom, desire or resources to push boundaries. Most are met with difficult deadlines to meet, and don't have the freedom to do the things they want to do.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I... I kinda did blame the developers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@mondzi]

I don't think it's laziness, as you say, they are focusing on maximizing the profit. Sadly it's easier to market "big worlds" with "anything to do" and show as much "content" as possible than explain that "this world isn't so big, but it's very well designed and connected and filled with memorable places and characters." Why is that I don't know, maybe people really believe they can do anything in these games, or they fill the gaps with their imagination when playing and it's enough for them.

[@naodamdetsyon6929]

DISCO-INFERNO-70 semantics

[@imtheman84]

This cow is fucking *RAW*

[@waiskuxx]

But after you complete GTA 5 you basically have nothing to do. They had a HUGE Budget, 250 Million. Meanwhile The Witcher 3 had a budget of around 15 Million and yet they set the standard of what an Open World RPG should be.

[@keybladesrus]

While I understand and agree with your points, I do feel the need to talk about FFXV a bit. I followed the development of that game for a long ass time, and they talked about their approach to the world design on a few occasions. First off, it wasn't intended to be a true "open-world" game. The intent was for the player to follow the story laid out for them like past FFs, but to open up the areas and give them as much freedom as the story would allow. Too bad there wasn't much story in the first place, that's another discussion. Second, the open areas up to Altissia were supposed to be like a road trip. It was mainly about driving with the boys, listening to their banter, camping out, etc. The idea was that in a real road trip, you're not stopping and exploring every field you come across. You're driving/riding and watching the scenery go by, but you don't often interact with it. Whether that was actually according to their vision or an excuse to justify the pretty but mostly empty world, I suppose is up for debate. I'm not a fanboy trying to defend the game. It absolutely has many problems, and for a lot of people, this approach to world design may be one of them. It works for some people, and doesn't work for others. I just thought I'd point out some of the reasons why the world was designed that way. Also, a recent update added a modification to let the Regalia go freely off-road, and I feel that has greatly changed the dynamic of the world. That car is insane now. You can drive, and even jump, all over the damn place, and run over monsters to your heart's content. It's fun to get the car up on one of those giant stone arches and jump off. It's not "content" exactly, but it does inject some much needed fun into the game. This video is on the older side now, so I don't know if you'll even see this comment, but if you do, I'd like to know what you think about this.

[@hyperionrobit3090]

I think FO:NV hits this nail on the head. A tad smaller than FO3, there's tons of content packed in small spaces, so the world never feels empty. The road to New Vegas itself is frought with danger and locations and just STUFF. If you go the wrong way, you get massacured by deathclaws, but do a bunch of stuff with the Powder Gangers, and Primm, and the NCR, and maybe the legion, and if your lucky, maybe clear out a casiono of cash. All in a smaller world than Fallout 3, and within a couple of hours. Gotta love 2010 Obsidian Entertainment. *DID I MENTION THE FANTASTIC DLC OLD WORLD BLUES THAT'S THE EMBODYMENT OF THE PARAGRAGH ABOVE?*

[@weirdo3116]

HyperionRobit but I can't draw a map of new Vegas. That must mean it's bad

[@mrgaudy1954]

The "danger" aspect you touch upon is often overlooked. You really need an open world to push back in order to feel organic.

[@indiomoustafa2047]

weirdo3116 Lol I could probably draw a map of New Vegas. Its pretty sad.

[@evildoctortaco]

It's a LOBOTOMITE! Here! In the DOME!

[@jimmefjones3219]

Combat sucked in new vegas

[@thepessolanoinquirer6856]

I want real estate options in gta and other city theme open world games, I want to build a Brand or Empire. Something i can care about. I want to be able to have a different experience in the same world.

[@ivanjinxgg7008]

Vice City Stories had something similar

[@Ar1AnX1x]

@@ivanjinxgg7008 dude I was exactly about to say that, how vice city how gangs that were on your side and how it had gangs that they would shoot you when they saw you. as far as I remember when you bought a business and it started generating money for you there gangs/guards that are on your side guarding it, it felt so immersive, like you could see your effect on the city and it was really cool.

[@magnusros333]

I remember when I was young and Oblivion was new. A cousin who had it before me described how fun it was to be able to just run off in a direction and not be stopped by invisible walls, instead you found dungeons and shrines and caves and all manner of interesting things! I think it is unfair to criticise that game for not innovating when the open world concept was still big and interesting. We didn't see the limit of the system the same way we do now that it's been explored by so many games. I was sold on Skyrim almost wholly on the promise of an Even Bigger World with Climbable Mountains!!; essentially more of that fun exploration I enjoyed in Oblivion. And I'll say that it is something Skyrim really succeeded on doing. It's awesome to just run around exploring. As time has passed the weaknesses of the game has become clearer, but I can't bring myself to complain about the ambition of making the world big. Newer games don't have that excuse though. Mindlessly copying the open world of past games without good reason is bad practice.

[@Nomammosway]

Madmax was not too shabby, needed more customization for sure and character devleopment/npc's. W3 is the model for sure. Keep eyes on 2077 :)

[@deadpull7761]

Enronhitman good call on mad max. That map was huge, but there were a lot of things to find, encounters to meet, and reasons to check stuff out. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@wereallgonnadiefromnukesoonlol]

Mad Max was criminally underated.

[@MikeyBasss]

There is a bit of an annoying grind with that game just to get enough stuff to make your car fully tricked out and to get all of max's gear. I especially HATED the land-mine diffusing missions. They were mind numbingly easy and the dog barking mechanic was glichy and rather annoying to listen to (who's idea was it to have the same fucking barking audio the whole time??). Once I got my car the way I liked it and got max's stuff fully upgraded (and completed the main story), it all started to feel a little empty.There's some cool side quests too though which I completed. I got a solid 20-30 hours out of it though and it is definitely one of the most underrated games of that year, if not ever).

[@rusi6219]

Witcher 3 was modeled after Gothic 2

[@SigurTibbs]

To this day my favourite open world is Red Dead Redemption, for all its bugs and awkward interactions with AI. There were a ton of genuine moments that were incredible. Especially because the story fueled it. The ride into Mexico is incredible. Oblivion had some similar moments for me where just simply existing in that world was awe-inspiring. My test for any open world game is to walk between key locations at least 5-6 times and just see if it evokes any sort of emotion from me.

[@21GamersUnited21]

One year later and this bell rings louder and louder.

[@andrelay6437]

Oh i could draw you a map of oblivion, no problem ;)

[@marmalade627]

Andre Lay I could drop a map of Oblivion, Morrowind, and Skyrim.

[@andrelay6437]

Or you could shut your damn mouth ;)

[@exilestudios9546]

you just told sheogorath to shut up that is not wise

[@faxd3448]

Andre Lay D U M B A S S WHY tf are YOU 😡

[@seanjordan4609]

bitch i could draw you a map of tamriel

[@alexdanailov6241]

About drawing the map thing: So, I'm preparing to run a session of some random pnprpg and I forgot to prepare myself with map and npc's and what not. What do I do? First thing when I enter the room is to ask the players, "hey guys, any one of you played that super old game, Gothic?" Negative response. Great! I just copy-pasted my memories, drew them a quick map of the prisoner colony from my memories from playing it and we ran a great adventure! Once I got home, I decided to brush up on my knowledge, however, it turns out I got everything right on the map - even most of the enemy positions and whatnot. Now that's a great game design!!!

[@julkohon]

lol, exactly what I did with my DnD campaign

[@ivarisalie8759]

Edgy: 'ive been playing a lot of oblivion lately*, proceeds to show Gothic 2 footage. Me, internally: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@Ezyasnos]

Considering the 'real life simulator', I played something like that at high school back in 1993. I don't know how it was called, it was an edutainment game where you had to cook, wash your clothes, lock your door if you go out, etc. etc. Also, there was a game Jones in the Fast Lane, also a bit like that.

[@KillaArmadilla]

I actually kind of like my world's a bit more empty, sounds wierd but hear me out. This is especially important in the post apocalyptic games, fallout 4 felt too cluttered and just fake, a group of people in an outpost would just ignore the huge battle one block over, mad Max was nice because the world felt like it had seen some shit, and when you come across people or a place of interest it felt all that more meaningful. Right know I am playing witcher 3, and though I do enjoy it it still feels a bit cluttered, like I just finished a contract where the monster was within bowshot of the castle, why would I have to find a monster that everyone should be able to see when it attacks each night? Rant over. Edit: also during a cut scene in w3 it states that it took the people 2 hours to get to a place that in the actual game world takes a minute or 2, I enjoy the journey, I like the world's to feel realistic a large, not some king's kingdom to be a few square kilometers.

[@Maddinhpws]

Extremely big open worlds discourage exploration. They are either so empty that you can't find shit by randomly exploring (see FFXIV) or they are cluttered with bullshit that is the same shit over and over again.

[@rovalla456]

I get your point, but at the same time, i see things in a different perspective. For me, a game, as a form of art/entertainment, needs to be poetic sometimes, if it's too literal, it becomes real life, and if it's too much like real life, there is no purpose on playing whatsoever. The example you showed about 2 hours becoming 2 minutes shows that the world of The Witcher 3, as an illustration of a book, with some poetic freedom, makes some choices prioritizing the overall experience. If you had to walk 2 hours to complete the task it would feel like eternity, thus breaking the game's both rhythm and narrative pace. And if the NPC's said 2 minutes it would feel like something extremely stupid, breaking the immersion once again. So you have to have this unbalance between time length, to make the narrative both realistic and playable.

[@Akumakazi]

As a college student who is studying to acquire a Computer Science degree for the express purpose of redefining the Open-World Formula with fascination and wonder, it is videos like this that I watch and heavily take notes on.

[@zcxvasdfqwer1234]

Marcello Emiliani you're drunk again.

[@chadgoings6336]

please make your game with a coop option for LAN, online and couch coop.

[@Godslayer1975]

wonder why America is most uneducated and worst universities in the world and this fact by the university rating board and its because of left wing Nazi scum and people so stupid they call this uneducated video good and you take notes from a video made by a loser with no education in the field . sorry i dont believe you because if you were even starting in the industry you would know this was all BS of a basement gamer loser not a educated gamer in the field

[@Godslayer1975]

ya make co op fucking loser stick to your fps stop wrecking every genre with your loser co op bs that no one ever plays and keep mp out of shit to its dead in a month in most games

[@randomquestion7592]

I don't even............what is Marcello talking bout ? xd

[@operator7209]

So you are the youtuber I tried to find when randomly passing through videos after a Skyrim discussion

[@eddyspeddy]

I'm a simple man, I see title saying how open worlds are crap, I hit like. I miss the days of linear-semi linear RPGs. There's no point having a huge open world with no content or boring content. I play a game for gameplay and story, not to look at the pretty fuckin' skyboxes :/ Unfortunately devs like EA can't monetize linear games as well with shitty microtransactions like they can big open sandboxes. R.I.P. the golden years of gaming, I shall forever miss the good games like kotor, DA:O, Jade Empire, Mass Effect (Especially Mass Effect, Andromeda was turned into an open world game for no fuckin' reason) etc...

[@ao6720]

eddyspeddy KOTOR FUG YEAH!!

[@AsianTheDomination]

we need a new kotor

[@SuperKratosgamer]

Exactly!

[@abesmissioncontrol2013]

A true "life-simulator" sandbox sounds incredibly boring.

[@blondafro4112]

it was already developed anyway. It is called Planet Earth xD

[@Szpagin]

There was a meme about a German warehouse worker who, after returning home, plays Forklift Simulator. To me, games are a mean to experiance something I couldn't do IRL, so I doubt I would find a game like this interesting.

[@ncshuriken]

@Szpagin: Exactly, 100% agree, games shouldn't reflect what we already experience everyday IRL and the stress of it all, games should be an escape from all of that. When I play games, I want to get as far away from reality as I can. Its escapism, just like books & films.

[@guyza123]

Being able to do anything like real life with no consequences (death etc.) would be amazing.

[@guyza123]

Real life is only stressful because there is consequences. Being able to save and reload in real life would be fun as.

[@warlordpro67]

idk I, along with probably everyone here, played the shit outta skyrim. I could draw a pretty decent map of that. Also I really like random encounters with npc's in newer openworld games, I like that not every quest ties into the main story somehow. Maybe that's just me

[@abesmissioncontrol2013]

No, it's not just you.

[@NovaBlazerZX]

Jacob Jiles he said NOT tied

[@Dredbot-hj7gy]

I played skyrim for more than 700 hours. I wouldn't be able to draw a map of it.

[@BloodofCaine]

I liked skyrim sure enough, but i like most Bethesda games. Not for the games themselves so much, just for the ability to mod the shit out of them to fit my playstyle. My issue with skyrim is that I never "felt" like a dragonborn. You have figures like Tiber Septim who shaped the world at large, even Martin Septim managed to drive off Mehrunes friggin Dagon, but the player as a dragonborn? Yeah, going around killing bears and sabrecats that have somehow gotten into people's homes.... or doing fetch quests cause someone wants a sweet roll. Also despite your power you are constantly talked down to and ordered about by everyone in the game. I mean how much better would the game be if you could bitch slap Delphine or Ulfric until they couldn't walk straight, just to teach them a bit of respect? Or end the civil war by simply taking the throne of skyrim yourself after murdering every imperial and Aldmeri or Stormcloak that looked at you funny? Just saying it's annoying to give a player that kind of power and then don't acknowledge that they have this power until the plot says you do.

[@Dredbot-hj7gy]

I don't feel like a Dragonborn when a kid tells me my armor doesn't look cool. :'(

[@DeanBiddler]

Rewatched this video in Apr 2020, wondering what Strat's thought on Death Stranding would be.

[@Martyr_of_vigilance]

I know I’m five years late but this intro montage and dialogue was a wild trip.

[@TomtensKanal]

You're making great videos, all videos you've made about problems with RPG:s are really spot on. Keep on doing what you do!

[@TheRealDarkzxi]

I'm gonna call it that this guy will have at least 200K subs after one year. If he does ill play baseball with a wii bat and a oyua. pin this for reference

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Pinned :P

[@TheRealDarkzxi]

ho boi i think the hardest part is going to be finding an oyua XD

[@aholyspanner3651]

i subbed just cause of this comment so i can be one of the first 1000

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Fucking huge. Like the size of the goddamn moon. This earth can barely contain that which is the enormity of my ego. Thanks for watching.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

On the real though, you know how long it takes to produce one video? Upwards of about 30 hours... So is it wrong to want more people to see the work that has basically become a second job for me on top of my full time one? I mean, I know you're trolling, but I am asking for real.

[@hasaankeller1]

Really surprised by how compelling I found this video to be. Didn't think I was going to watch it all the way through but bravo, Very well put together.

[@ElNegus9985]

Can someone tell me the name of the background songs at 0:00?

[@tommyvercetti9434]

I'm sick of games being open world just because it is what kids like these days. It seems like since GTA V everything has to be open world the same way that after CoD4: MW everything was FPS. Final Fantasy XV shouldn't have been open world. MGS V shouldn't have been open world. Mafia III shouldn't have been open world. And Ubisoft shouldn't exist.

[@heroofcanton1318]

THAT WAS MY MONEY TOMMY MY MONEY

[@maarten9272]

Tommy Vercetti Well not everyone likes on real shooters.

[@salvationsalgaming]

JubbaJubba since morrowind

[@jacobmichalak7321]

Mafia is Open World so is Final Fantasy so i think those just need to perfect it

[@sonicadv27]

MGSV most certainly had to be an open world. It took stealth gameplay to a whole new level by introducing the open world aspect. It introduced the concept of mission preparation, so that your job would be easier when you took on missions. It makes the map have a purpose. It's basically a stealth playground. It's a rare example of gameplay that was actually made better when it went open-world. In my opinion it innovated way more than Breath Of The Wild. Zelda was alreadyan open world game and it boggles me how fan of the series didn't realise it. You just have a bigger map and no locked zones.

[@RahxephonXtra]

Sorry mate, but nostalgia got the better of ya. While I am not a fan of TES, there is no way you can say that exploring is worse than Gothic. That shrine is within the lore, that cave has a lore, that troll has a reason to be there. Nothing is really just there for no reason. Hell you might kill a demon and later read about said demon in a book. It isn't that open worlds are rubbish, it's purely everything is watered down now and like FFXV mobs are dropped for no real reason. You recall the entire map because you had to (and most likely plyed the game 100 times)

[@anonrandom7765]

RahxephonXtra Yep. This idiots just jumping on the bash Bethesda bandwagon. Ignoring your nostalgic fantasies and wishes, Elder Scrolls series has one of the best open worlds ever.

[@jjhill001]

I shouldn't have to read a bunch of fake books in game to know whats going on.

[@robert357900]

BIg open world doesn't mean good open world. I remember how outstanding feel was at the first time move anywhere in TES games. SO huge. But after the years we have even bigger open worlds. Good designed world will be good no matter how long ago they made it. Open world that only offer big size wont survive time. Also this is sad that a lot of people saing "uh, another Bethesda-bash-bandwagon" where they doint litteraly same thing - praising Bethesda for no matter what.

[@jonathanminor1322]

jjhill001 you dont have to though? Have you ever played oblivion?

[@cynicaltheastrocreep4504]

Ingore *your* nostalgic fantasies. Bethesda has not made anything great since Morrowind.

[@help1243]

Your view of a perfect open world game is pretty much Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode. the problem is that game has no graphics besides ASCII text, and it 's very hard to get into because of its complexity I couldn't think of anything other than DF at your speech in the end of the video, that game's motto is "losing is fun!" there are those tragic stories on fortress mode, such as "Boatmurdered", and videos like VSauce's "El Fisto", of a hand-only fighter who was killed by a necromancer, ressurected, and then his uncontrollable corpse "exploded the necromancer's head into gore", oh that was awesome... I think once Dwarf Fortress reaches 1.0, and the industry is more developed, it should become the goal of any open world game to deliver as much freedom as that game does, it may sound lunatic now, a game *with graphics* delivering what an ASCII text game makes your CPU burn to do, and all that, but in 9 years or so years it may not.

[@isaacmercer4893]

The intro was cool. I like all the clips you showed before getting into the talk about open worlds

[@satannstuff]

Have you ever tried Kingdoms Of Amalur: Reckoning? It's not exactly a perfect game but it's entire world was designed to cram as much content in as possible. There is meaningful progression by way of an ability system that gives you vastly more powerful abilities or ones that synergize extremely well and you actually have some meaningful choices so it works as an RPG. The environment was hand crafted and every area has it's own distinct look to it and some unique features to set it apart from everything else. However there are some serious problems with it as well. The progression is a major one as the difficulty curve is distinctly pointed downward because of it, even leveling up once without moving on to a new area may make that area far too easy. While the overworld areas look fairly unique, the dungeons often end up looking very similar due to a lack of granularity in the relevant assets, dungeons are basically made out of prebuilt rooms and corridors with some window dressing added not unlike the infamously repetitive outposts and space ships of the original Mass Effect. Of course like so many other open world games, the only thing you can really do is kill stuff, craft stuff, follow a quest arrow and occasionally wander around and even then, you have to deal with invisible walls everywhere unless you happen to find a designated point you can jump from. This makes the world feel a lot less open and is certainly not helped by the WoW style enclosed maps and a camera that's continually pointed at the ground.

[@Corva7]

I agree with you. Kingdoms of Amalur does have a interesting world, but I feel sometimes the sides quest are too generic. Main quest was interesting enough, but after some hours I started to avoid side quest. Don't misunderstand me, the quest from factions are really good, in world side quest are the problem. Those are there for the sake of being there.

[@satannstuff]

Most of the sidequests actually follow some kind of overarching plot, it's really only the major cities where you get quests that are completely unrelated to anything else and even then there's at least some local flavor, you're not being sent out to bring back a bunch of bear asses or whatever just for the hell of it. The fact that this has no real effect on gameplay can't be denied though.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I believe I tried it when it was on sale, but I have this problem where if I don't pay a whole lot for a game, there's no motivation to play it. I should sit down with it at some point and dump some hours in.

[@nomercy8989]

You didn't miss much. Amalur was actually a rather bad game with boring and repetitive gameplay and content.

[@shdowdrgonrider]

The most open open-world I played has been Dwarf Fortress. Of course there is a lot of abstraction but honestly what can you expect?

[@fiddlemouth6385]

Also a good thing that Morrowind does, that its sequels don't, is there are no map markers. The Quest-givers actually give you directions; which road to follow, which turn to take, what the door looks like. There is no fast travel, there are lore friendly alternatives like teleportation between mages guilds, ships between ports, and Silt Striders between the important cities. As I played, I subliminally learned the "bus routes", the roads, the landmarks, and I learned how to tell what area I'm in based on the environment. And so I did learn the map of Morrowind, not to the extent you seemed to have learned off Gothic's but I still think it's unfair to lump it in with the other games you listed.

[@redeem5]

Hey Strat-Edgy Productions, have you ever played the Yakuza series? I'd be curious to hear your opinion on how that game structures its open world compared to the other games you compared in this video since those games are much different than your typical open world game as well.

[@GymLeaderMatt1987]

This is great. I had to look twice to make sure I seen the views right. If you keep this up, you will be someone I actually want to watch. I notice in your comments you say you like Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas. Doing analysis on those game's designs or comparing it to their Bethesda counterparts is basically an uptapped market outside of a video or two. The masterpiece is 'Fallout 3 is Garbage, and Here's Why' by hbomberguy. It's a fantastic piece of critique that cuts to the core of modern gaming itself.

[@MarkJones-gt2qd]

Fallout 3 is the best game I ever played. Critique as much as you like, mostly it is opinion dressed as analysis. Morrowind was a game changer, but I didn't have a good experience of Gothic 2. It is not open world, it uses various artificial barriers, which is fine, but I wouldn't hold it up as some sort of standard. New vegas fails in exactly the way the other games in this video are being critiqued, there is very little to do in the open world. Yet in the next breath it is apparently one of his favourites. confusing. Modern gaming is in "crisis" because of modern gamers.

[@GymLeaderMatt1987]

I'm just leaving a suggestion on a video I enjoyed, not looking to argue whether or not New Vegas is the best Fallout game. The video I referenced was an example of a well thought out critique. The title itself is irrelevant. A lot of people like Fallout 3. I like Fallout 3. Morrowind and Gothic 2 are both also good games. Morrowind is one of my personal favorite video games of all time. You are missing the point. The topic of this video and other videos on the channel provide great view points and thoughts about game design. I would like to hear something based on the original Fallouts since discussions about them are rare. Mr. B Tongue is a KZbinr that does this type of thing, if you'd like to watch and see. It's not about a single game or company but more about interesting discussion. Don't get hung up on the small things.

[@camycamera]

"New vegas fails in exactly the way the other games in this video are being critiqued, there is very little to do in the open world" Well that's just not true at all. Fallout New Vegas has over triple the amount of side quests of Fo3 alone. It has loads and loads of stuff to do, not just places to go and kill shit, but actual, meaningful quests and characters and locations that you can interact with.

[@MarkJones-gt2qd]

I am using the video as the context for my comment. In final fantasy he says you may as well just follow the quest markers, the open world is an illusion. This is a problem with vegas as well, an awful lot of open space. Doesn't make it a bad game, but it "begs the question" why it is good if FF is bad for the same things. FWIW I didn't particularly enjoy Vegas. I wanted to very much, but in the end it was too different from FO3 (I liked the hardcore mode though.) When I want a long story, I tend to read a book. It was just a trudge through a dessert and a bit of messing around in a run down city. Fallout 3 was an atomic wasteland that was recognisably Washington. The metro system was super. The fact that each location was about 10 yards from the last one kept things interesting. I must return to Vegas and play it again, maybe I can find a guide that explains why it is good, because I'm not seeing it, myself.

[@MarkJones-gt2qd]

The video comments on how in some open worlds, you may as well just follow the quest markers, because there's nothing else to do. Describes New Vegas to a tee, I think. Counting the quests is missing the point.

[@wesbridges1037]

I feel ff15 wasnt really about it being open world. Its more about the story. Considering this is the franchises first true open world (though with a few transition areas still) and not just free explore using an over world(1-9/tactics/mystic quest) or area transitions (10-14) I would say this was a good first attempt for a game series. the open areas that didn't have side or main quests leading to them felt more (to me at least) like something to make those car rides have visual appeal(and a few mobs to grind on) along side the conversations the chars had while driving. I look forward to seeing how/if they evolve their version of an open world.

[@andreirazoare5070]

I always thought about this concept of world scale vs. content density! Imagine if GTA V's world was only half of Los Santos yet you could enter every single building and missions and story arcs took place within a city block! You would be much more compelled to take a walk for the sake of discovering something interesting than just rob supercars and do a lap of the map while being chased by cops, die and repeat.

[@grahamharris7010]

Gothic 1 and 2 was EPIC! SUCH a strong story and sense of reward when completing certain tasks or killing certain enemies, or to get accepted by a high level NPC group after you did work on your reputation

[@lukeboughner9873]

I see this was made before Kingdom Come Deliverance

[@bren7080]

May I ask, what are your thoughts on the S.T.A.L.K.E.R games? I love them, personally, but I'd really like to hear your opinions.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

So I have only played through the first one, but I own all of them. This may be a video for another time, but my feelings in a TL;DR way are: Unbalanced, messy, weird, and awesome.

[@jasonfenton8250]

Strat-Edgy Productions Agreed S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is a mess, but there's nothing like it.

[@DjVolumeUp200]

Bren7080 CHEEEEEKI BREEEEEEEEKI

[@loganoates6683]

Recently discovered your channel! Love your style of in depth videos, with well thought out points!

[@PurushNahiMahaPurush]

There are several great open world games. Witcher 3, Zelda BoTW, Horizon Zero Dawn, GTA 5, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim and Fallout 3. But I agree, open world is very difficult to nail down if you don't have a big budget and dedicated time to make the world full of things to do. Otherwise it's just going to be like every other Ubisoft game. There is nothing wrong with old fashion restricted levels if the level design is good. A good tight level design will always beat open world. Perfect example is Arkham Asylum vs other Arkham games.

[@tymongoji]

Yeah...while Asylum is lacking in certain areas (the gameplay is too simplistic and the story/intrigue peters out real quick), it easily has the best open world of the series...it all had a purpose, and served both the narrative and gameplay. My hope is for an eventual Arkham game that has the focus of Asylum's world and narrative, but with all the bells and whistles of City and Knight, including a repurposed Batmobile. I would kill for a game like that.

[@Torthrodhel]

What if an open world, big enough but not ridiculous, started off fairly empty but as you did stuff and time went on, actually changed and filled up? You'd have the chance toward the end of it to actually MISS the emptiness it began with. Now how rare of an emotion would that be for a game to evoke?

[@AdamBartholomew]

I like your brain, the fact that that's your focus is great, because emotions and experiences as foundation are what make good games, I know it could be easy to say that I'm speaking subjectivity, but if you've done your research or some game design you KNOW this is fact

[@RaunienTheFirst]

Explaining open worlds with Hegelian Dialectics. Love it.

[@justsomeguy8385]

Skyrim fixed many of the issues I had with Oblivion's landscapes and landmarks. Unfortunately if also gives the player a big arrow to follows so every quest ends up being a b-line to the next objective. I installed a no hud mod and played Skyrim that way and without using the map at all, and after a while I was easily able to navigate by landmarks alone. Morrowind was harder to navigate because the world didn't have enough distinct landmarks, but after 150 hours in the game I could pretty much find my way anywhere on my own.

[@LemonandCrackhead]

I know I'm a bit late to the party here, but the type of open world game you're describing can be found in the Yakuza series. It is literally one city block modeled after Kabukicho, Tokyo and every inch of that map is utilized in some way. Random encounters, side games, side quests, mini-objectives, hell you can even take on a "part-time job" at a call center in one if you look hard enough. Those games, especially the newer ones and remakes, are so dense you would be insane to try finding and completing everything in them.

[@KGBx988]

Great video. Good points on Oblivion and FFXV. Small issue woudl be to make editing more in sync with what you say. For example, I've no idea how Far Cry's climbing looked and it would be helpful to show that. PS, You get extra points for Gothic 2. What did you think about Gothic 3 and Arcania?

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Gothic 3 was alright for what it tried to do, but suffered from the same lack of concrete narrative and direction that many open worlds have, but for what it tried to do, holy shit... I mean, you could either support the orcs and do missions for them, or take over towns yourself and do missions for the rebels. For as big and as open as that game was, I am really surprised no one tried to do that since. It had to be a massive undertaking for them. If it weren't for the stunlocking issue it probably would be a classic to be honest. Man... I really need to go back and play that game. Seriously, we need more foreign game design companies...

[@Cyberdemon1542]

The reason Gothic 3 failed is because they tried to make an Oblivion-killer. Everything you said about Oblivion, FF15 and Gothic? It is EXACTLY what I think! It is really refreshing to see someone share my opinion.

[@Daffitt]

If you enjoyed Gothic 2, and probably played the first one (if it has ever been translated), how about the first "Risen"? Compared to Gothic 2, it's like aspirin vs morphine, but - except for the ridiculously bad ending - quite enjoyable, I think.

[@lordkrythic6246]

I've actually come to hate procedurally generated games, or games that are statically built but are far too big. It seems to me that the more space a developer gives you, the less you actually have. Instead, I've found myself thinking back to games which gave off the illusion of an open world, but is so compact with content that it makes up for what could be viewed as a smaller world. Games like this are Knights of the Old Republic, one and two. The worlds you could travel to were statically created by the developers, but exploration was more rewarding. I kind of wish that all of these procedurally generated games would just stop. A firm example is Minecraft. The game world is utterly massive, but at the same time, terribly empty. I even tried to play Minecraft a few days ago, but found the overall exploration to be redundant. I knew that caves had iron ore, etc, and maybe I would find a dungeon...but then what? What's the point? I think the issue is that the content needs to be greatly expanded. I think that's the issue with Minecraft, the game world is potentially infinite, but the overall content is extremely low in comparison.

[@djimma5080]

Fucking no man's sky its a good example yeah it has millions of planets but its the same 5 fucking planets millions of times.

[@InMooseWeTrust]

Final fantasy 12 feels like an open world but it's not and I wouldn't have it any other way

[@undead_corsair]

It would be pretty cool if when you wanted to make a journey to somewhere in a game, instead of just riding your horse, driving your car or walking there, you had to manage resources, get the right equipment and plan the route. Imagine you want to go to the top of a mountain in a fantasy game cus you hear there's something cool at the top. You have to get food for the journey, maybe climbing equipment, a horse to ride there, weapons to defend yourself. You start the journey, you can't travel continuously, you have to stop and sleep at night, you have to use a campfire to keep warm, if you didn't bring enough food you have to hunt, you might get attacked by bandits at some point, you might meet another traveler to trade with. You get to a point where you have to leave your horse and start climbing alone, finally you make it and you're rewarded with maybe money, an item, an upgrade, a new spell. That entire journey could include so many types of gameplay; combat, hunting (and stealth?), survival, trading, resource management, platforming. Now that would be cool.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Yep. I agree wholeheartedly.

[@brnclandonald]

Ben Zombie all that can be modded into Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. Look up wiki.step-project.com/Pack:Survival for detailed examples. I use all that on top of SRLE: Extended + a bit of my own brew. Some people like me mod it to be as you describe, some mod it in other directions to their liking. I look at Bethesda games as basic framework from which serious PC nerd gamers can make their own game, and don't care too much if this selling point of Bethesda's is not general user friendly. I didn't know wtf I was getting into when I first started modding Morrowind in the days of original xbox. My versions of Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim are not general user friendly, but nearly any mission I embark on results in gameplay in the spirit of what you describe. If you have PC, I recommend you get Oblivion and follow this guide: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2badX6ibt93iaM and StratEdgy, check out some of his commentaries on open world games.

[@marwinkovarex8620]

Just play don't starve.

[@PauLtus_B]

Breath of the Wild has quite a lot of that.

[@Darkman9000]

It really is a tricky thing to pull off with an open world. If there's too little to do in between the quest areas, then it can be pretty boring, though at the same time, making the world feel realistically large can be enjoyable to some people who enjoy things like hiking or just exploring without having to go outside. Breath of the Wild was a pretty mixed bag when it came to the design approach. On one hand, being able to climb everything really does open up new avenues for exploration, but at the same time it meant having to manage stamina gauges which could be understandably annoying for many if they wanted to climb up and over everything instead of finding a path to run along or ride through on horseback. Then of course there's a split amongst people with the world setup and how the shrines can be hit or miss for many who would have preferred a proper dungeon and/or cave to explore. Likewise, people are either in the camp that the world has enough to do in it and those who would prefer more mini-games and side-content that wasn't just collecting golden poop. One lesser known game that I feel did the sandbox world fairly well was Steambot Chronicles for the PS2. After the first 20 minutes or so (give it take), you were free to explore the game's first town and either progress the story by visiting a farm on its outskirts/fighting in arena matches to move up the ranks for money and prizes/shoot some pool in a bar/or dig up fossils to help restore the displays in a museum that got totaled during the story's beginning moments. From there, you could do things play the stock market, perform gigs with a band using various instruments, a fair number of side-quests with a few scant moral choices attached to them, and even spelunk in 3 randomly generated dungeons with multiple levels. While the world itself still railroaded you during the story, the stuff you could do in the downtime was pretty fulfilling, and even managed to make the game pretty fun to play even in the post-story mode whereas many other games kind of lose that charm once the story is said and done. As for whether open world games need to become "life simulators", I'm not too sure if that's quite right. First of all, it depends on what kind of feel the game is aiming for. BotW is an adventure as you grow in skill and power and manipulate the world to work in your favor to best the enemies and shrines while keeping yourself alive with bountiful supplies you can collect from an assortment of plants and animals. While many of the GTA games (and those styled like them) are about amassing a fortune to fund whatever endeavors you want to partake in while taking a break from the story bits. In the case of the latter, sadly, only a few manage to give you enough stuff to do between the story and off-mission stuff. While in the case of the former, and things similar to it, you really have to have a taste/preference for adventuring huge world that (depending on how you look at them) are either feel alive or sparse and empty. If anything, the world needs to always reflect what kind of adventure the player will be going on; a long and epic quest where they grow in power, or a journey of the underdog rising from their lowly beginnings.

[@Oozaru85]

To say just because a game has a vast open world, the gameplay is shit is stupid. A game can have both, if the devs put a little bit more work into it. But they don't. They use vast open worlds as an excuse for shitty gameplay. Which is easier to make? Deep, interesting gameplay, or a big open world? Well, let's make it easy, give the gamers their big open worlds and make huge cuts on the gameplay. Why give them both? Too much work, let's make it easy and still get our money.

[@KeyAndrew]

I've got Morrowind totally memorized now....

[@MARGARELON]

Which House Hlaalu Councilor lives in St. Olms? No cheating!

[@stal2496]

if you took the level of exploration from saboteur , the world detail from morowind , oblivions side quests, thiefs stealth mechanics and GTAs freedom and just fucking mix em up togheter you get what I consider a true open world experience

[@mamacrow2759]

Botw literally did what you wanted with the climbing and finding ingredients, it leaves much to be desired but damn was it fun. Just shows how executing some of these simple changes can make such an big impact on the open world concept.

[@thenazithatachievedchim5288]

Open worlds are starting to bore me, the only thing holding me back from buying games like Horizon Zero Dawn and Mass Effect Andromeda (Most likely my final Mass effect based on marketing) this month is whether the content in the world is good, like Witcher 3 (Granted, the game does suffer the open world tropes outside of quests, like bandit camps and towns overrun by monsters). I don't want to reach viewpoints or collect fucking collectibles anymore, Ubisoft made me sick of that shit, even Mafia 3 suffered this trope of you just doing the same shit over and over. GTA5 on the other hand at least had stranger missions, but the lack of stuff to actually do in the WORLD, made the game unbearable for me, where even I thought everything this game did, san andreas did better, and first. Open world games are mostly just padding, and its why I'm falling out of love with them, heck I'm falling out of love with Skyrim (One of my favorite games) because most of the quests are fetch quests, even mods can't fix that problem. Fallout New Vegas on the other hand had stellar quests and writing, but the worlds atmosphere wasn't that enticing because all you see are literally assets from Fallout 3 with a yellow tinted screen. Fallout 4...I won't speak of Fallout 4, everything that game did, was piss me off, 90% of the quests being radiant quests being one of them and the shitty writing. The open world genre has been done to death, but you either go open world or on the rails nowadays because it is an easier design philosophy for AAA games to abide by. This is why Dark Souls 1 was a nice hybrid of both, and its revolutionary to this day, it was open in a way, but linear too and the world felt connected, shame they didn't continue this design into DS3 where everything is linear af. More games should be looking back to DS1. Look at other games like Skyrim where you have horse shoe dungeons simply because its convenient rather than makes sense when it could go a whole other route of making them complex and feeling like actual dungeons, look at Daggerfall, their dungeons ooze atmosphere and are complex (Randomly generated sure, and has flaws) but thats more interesting than the fucking claw puzzles and linear dungeons in Skyrim and fighting the same draugr again and again. Edit: Kinda went on a ramble, but fuck it.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Fallout 4 drugged me and touched me in my sleep. Mafia 3 enticed me into an alleyway with the promise of sex, and then stole my wallet.

[@bigz4349]

The Nazi That Achieved CHIM Did you ever try BotW?

[@avengeddisciple]

I might get some shit for this, but Watch Dogs 2 was actually a pretty good game in my opinion. Ubisoft actually decided that it was going to do away with towers, and just open up the world. All of the missions sort of blended together, not really relying on fetch quests, but instead giving you objectives that either further Dedsec, or give you items and vehicles. San Francisco wasn't really jam-packed with content, but it also wasn't a massive world, just a city. The characters are pretty polarizing, but they were better than anybody from the first game.

[@caos024]

I completely agree with you

[@ahsanahmed3692]

GTA V > any other open world game

[@arinaarinza]

"I got an idea: the open world life simulator" We already have that, it's called the sims 3

[@Alpha-kt4yl]

I think you mean torture simulator

[@Elgar337]

What's the music piece that starts at 5:31?

[@AkaiAzul]

Question: if Gothic 2 were 3 times the size with 3 times the amount of equal quality content, would it be better or tedious?

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I imagine it would get incredibly tedious. Mainly because each quest has so many phases, and takes so long to do because of travel time, and the difficulty of the game will factor into the tedium as well as you will be reloading the game quite frequently. Combine this with clunky combat, bugs, etc, and you got a game worth putting down.

[@schmebulockjizz]

@@StratEdgyProductions Elden Ring is coming....

[@rusi6219]

You'd have to significantly expand the main plot line but it's doable

[@SmXxGx]

I love your videoes, because you go in-depth as you do and I really hope you go far here on youtube. But I have a question, how do you find the time to play RPGs? I find it very hard to put in the time into 'em. I don't know if it's because I'm only a 17 year old danish boy, with a part-time job and school with exams or whether It's just me that have a small timespan and I get bored of it? Before I ask my final two questions, I wanted to say I have already put in almost 20 hours in Fallout New Vegas in just two weeks. But do you have any tricks to stay hooked on a rpg, even tho you don't have the time to play? Oh, can you also recommend me some rpgs that are hidden gems, so I could dwelve into them?

[@SmXxGx]

Oh I also love how you put in a personel story in your Fallout video.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Hmm, I would say that in order to play an RPG with a busy lifestyle, what you need is a quiet space to get your mind right. I would even go so far as to say you should meditate before playing. The key is to focus in on the story and characters to the point that learning more about those two aspects drive you forward. Focus is key to playing an RPG. Leave about 20 minutes in between school work, and when you start playing to kind of clear the clutter from your mind. Rpgs are easier to enjoy when you can focus sharply on them. As far as hidden gems, I would say play Planescape: Torment. If the story doesn't pull you in, then I would recommend something like Vampire: The Masquerade.

[@SmXxGx]

Oh okay, thanks for the tips and recommendations!

[@NotAShawn]

This video should be retitled to "Why i love Gothic 2 better than other open world games"

[@DuckieMcduck]

Not really. While he praises Gothic 2 for how it handled Open World, he shits on it for the putrid gameplay.

[@NotAShawn]

DuckieMcduck yea but w all the positives that he lays on it counteracts the small bit of criticism

[@fenrisshade236]

critique and positives doesn't outweigh each other, wut? one mechanical flaw that is gamebreaking isn't outweighed by "oooooooh look at the pretty colors and smooth textures" that's some weird-ass logic ya got going there

[@SergeantNovak23]

I suppose a lot of the difference in enjoyment comes from our own traits as people. When I listen to the comment (paraphrased) "Yeah, I'm exploring and there is this and that to mess with, but what's the point" I, personally, feel baffled at first. I wonder, what do you mean what's the point? Running from location and having an adventure is the point. It's impromptu, and if you're liken to role play, even better, it's whatever the emergent story in your head dictates it to be. I'm not as much interested in a story being told at me than the potential for the content and detail of the world to inspire a story in my head. It's spontaneous, and it feels like I'm stumbling into adventure. Which, I get it, sounds like crap to some people, but honestly I do enjoy that level of interaction. And I enjoy some of these comments making it like an intelligence thing if you are 'fooled' by the illusion. I'm perfectly aware the game is generated in cells, the world is inherently limited, dungeons have a saminess to them due to quantity of them and the limited tile sets. Believe me, I've screwed around Creation kit in Skyrim and Geck for New Vegas to observe how it's all layed out and the tricks of the trade, but still, I can be enchanced. Because, at the end of the day, a lot of the elements just have to work enough, the world filled enough, enough mystery and allure to generate enough be immersed. And yeah, sure, it would be great to have top, heavily produced content for every nook, but everything comes at a cost. Sometimes things pay off in strange ways

[@Menmenthealth]

I'd love for them to start making a game by starting out with just 1 town and make a lot of the gameplay and later on add extra content as they develop the story, so they can first get the mechanics really well. then start on evolving the world and making everything matter enough.

[@rublestone7244]

Wow, great videos! I am wondering if you might do a video sharing your thoughts on Zelda: Breath of the Wild and The Long Dark. The bit about making climbing and world traversal interesting got me thinking... Cheers

[@ZeroStrife1396]

From how you described your ideal open world game as "a small slice of a world, chock full of carefully created content", the new Deus Ex would be right up your alley, I think (from what I've heard about it, anyway).

[@StratEdgyProductions]

It's pretty great. Though I stopped playing it when I started making videos more often.

[@lemonlimelukey]

you would love the new zelda, its not perfect but its leaps and bounds ahead on the adventure and progression aspects compared to most open world games today, id love to see you do a video on it

[@kpsting]

The map in G2 was actually optional. The strength of the level design in that game was in that most of the time you didn't even need the map because the world was well enough designed that you navigated by the landmarks

[@MilosAndric123]

You said it boss, i was trying to explain that to people for the past 10 years....

[@colorfulmonochrome3337]

Milos Andric Ma gaming industrija je skroz u kurcu, niko se više ni ne trudi da pomera granice, stvarno šteta. Mislim da ti to što je najnovija igrica koju sam igrao Shadowrun Dragonfall koji je izašao pre par godina, toliko mi je stalo do "novih igrica". Sve je već viđeno, indie igrice su jedini spas.

[@shayoko6]

I don't usually play open world games but as a concept i don't thin they are bad. it can be entertaining just wanting around looking for things. just simply enjoying the environments. i would say multiplayer focused games are bad.regardless if they do work well when there is a player base. since not only can community's ruin a experience but the very idea that you even need another living person to even experience a game is absurd.

[@voldlifilm]

Man, I love inconvenience in games. The best experience I had in Skyrim was playing with survival mods, and I got caught in a snowstorm in the middle of an otherwise boring quest. I was stuck in my tent, trying to keep a fire alive for days, hoping not to starve. Then a curious mudcrab got too close and became dinner. It was amazing. If you want a tagline, here it is; "Inconvenience is the cornerstone of immersion".

[@muffinman2546]

21:08 _>Fable: The Lost Chapters/anniversary_ It had a pretty good enough open world with pretty good combat & progression systems with a decent enough story and character-build versatility. It had enough side-quests & whenever you complete them, it had fitting rewards like getting the very best fishing pole from the fishing contest very early in the game which btw is fantastic game design giving the player an upgraded tool early enough in the game for it to have it's impact instead of giving it at the end which would be pointless. - The silver key chests & Demon doors are enough of a nice incentive to revisit older, more lower-leveled areas considering their bountiful rewards. The world looks nice for it's era, it's NPC's are fleshed out enough to not make players grimace. It's morality system is simple yet it far out-paces the morality systems of other lazy modern games. - But more importantly, it's open world is a charm & no area in the entire game is just a boring, flat field. With various rewards for any exploring player. The entire game has _just_ the right balance.

[@quantumleap4023]

I hate when people say a real life simulator would be boring! I mean c'mon it would be like being able to do ANYTHING in life! Everything you've ever imagined! A dream of a game where you could chose multiple routes, without any consequences. People that say it would be boring most likely live on a couch and have no imagination.

[@elishahahn3064]

Personally I play games to escape reality. I think a real life simulator would be boring because you would not have the ability to do any fun and insane shit. Fallout New Vegas is a game where you can choose multiple routes without any consequences, and you get the bonus of using laser guns and battling mutated creatures and other things you can't do in real life.

[@Qladstone]

A real life simulator would include you being in your pregnant mother's womb where all you sense are blobs of black and red with muffled sounds for 9 months of in-game time, being born with random good/bad traits (good luck being born with poor genetic traits), being able to do nothing but cry for 2 years of in-game time, having no freedom for a few more years, having to go to school for another ten years, having to save up money (or incur debt) for university, and a perma-death system that makes you restart everything when you die.

[@paulmares9815]

7:50 "We dunno what our motivations are for exploring it..." I dunno... maybe... like... BASIC HUMAN CURIOSITY!? YOU GOD DAMN FUCKIN' ROBOT!

[@matman000000]

Why should I be curious about a random tomb that looks just like the last 10 I've come across? That's the thing about Bethesda, their dungeon design tends to be very predictable. Skyrim added some cool traps, but even then I knew to expect a dozen draugrs, three spike traps, one nameless mini-boss and a random magical weapon in every tomb I've entered.

[@FireCape4u]

Mattchester because you might enjoy the core gameplay enough to explore that tomb just for the sake of experiencing more of the core gameplay. That may not be enough for you, but you asked the question and that answer is true for a lot of people. If you dont believe me, just look at the sales for the remaster. People enjoyed it enough to buy it again

[@jacobodom8401]

I don't know because previous experiences have proven to get loot which are random. The guy is saying that he wants every single possibility in human imagination to be achievable in video games. That doesn't work. This guy is a purist.

[@matman000000]

+Magical Constructs In that case it has little to do with the actual exploration. The driving force isn't curiosity, but enjoyable repetition. That's kind of what Bethesda games excel at.

[@FireCape4u]

Mattchester If thats how you see their games, thats fine. and if that means you dont enjoy their games, thats fine as well. Different strokes for different folks. But i do disagree, because the different guilds, factions, etc kept me enthralled with the game as much as the core gameplay. But if it was shallow to you, thats just how it is. This conversation is kinda old and i dont remember exactly what were talking about, but i think i stayed on topic well enough

[@papaveneti7759]

the best system was the witcher 2 areas. These contained areas allowed for some exploration, but also gave the opportunity for some awsome story moments. For expample, flotsam port culd be burned after leaving it, and the end area was completely destroyed. While in witcher 3, the wild hunt goes to a village, and you see 5 houses burned...

[@minnion2871]

I'd say what makes open worlds good are the following basics: 1.How you get from place to place: Why is GTA fun? Because driving is fun, crashing into cars, finding jumps to ramp off of, ect... 2.Flow: This ties into getting from place to place... The journey needs to be fun... Even if it's an optional journey, so if you're flying what obstacles are in your way? Any barns to barnstorm through? Is there a shortcut? What risk is there to taking the shortcut? 3.Destinations: If there are optional destinations I'd say things like mingames, or shops with neat items to equip to your characters, or maybe the option of decorating our characters house with stuff that we've found... Upgrades and customization's for our vehicles.

[@paulstaker8861]

This is why I had a bad feeling when they announced mirror's edge 2 was gonna be open world. Loved the race track design of the first game. Exploration game, it was not.

[@dithawat]

Gothic sounds amazing but too bad me and many people around me have never heard of this game

[@Maddinhpws]

You've never heard of gothic? The game is fucking amazing.

[@thomyork1281]

Pretty cool video about how you left your house a couple of times and really wish you could just experience that feeling while sitting on the couch.