Oppenheimer: A Film About Guilt (Cope)

[@RedYellowBird6889]

Ahhh they finally remembered their password to the their youtube account, you love to see it.

[@irism4ney]

*they

[@RedYellowBird6889]

@@irism4ney Ah my mistake, i'll edit my comment real quick.

[@jasonhill8506]

Dam

[@ernestoacosta7918]

Skittles had to think hard this month

[@xD-lt1mq]

I remember a quote from a comedian: "The US will invade another third world country and in the end they will make a movie about how sad it made an American soldier feel". That's this movie to a tee

[@isaacp64]

Shoot and cry is a tradition of Global North cinema for a reason

[@damaramu.]

It's Frankie Boyle that said that

[@xD-lt1mq]

@@damaramu. Thank you , i'm so ancient my memory leaves me some times

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Remind me what Japan was doing in E Asia again?! How historically illiterate can you far leftists be?!!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

​@@isaacp64lol are you seriously getting angry at the U.S. for killing people rather than the FASCSTS committing GENOCIDE that the U.S. was FIGHTING?!

[@Stopmotioncreator1]

"Time" and "Death" have the same writing in sanskrit and are very linked terms, the passage of time with the passing of life. Unfortunately the gita's entire language is in defending castist status quo. If there truly was guilt for work on nuclear weapons it reminds me of Arjuna's story more as the intended reading of the gita is "everyone has a (1) place and thing to do until the end of time, some of them horrific and yet you can never ever escape it unless you do it very well for an unspecified amount of time" and Arjuna after all does engage in the war that he rejected beforehand. People living in imperialist countries seem to never realize at what point they can't continue cooperating with the scientific and academic institutions if they want their work to be used for something helpful to people.

[@ArK047]

The barbenheimer saga completes!

[@EmonWBKstudios]

More like COPE-enheimer, amirite?

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Far Leftists are actually Angry that America killed fascism in E asia! 😮

[@PeterSchmuttermaier]

I just recently studied the Bhagavad Gita, and I immediately had to think about Oppenheimer as a cautionary tale regarding its message. I am not an expert, but to me, the Gita is first and foremost a text about control of the masses by a ruling class. Its appeal lies, aside from its beautiful writing style, in the simplicity in which it presents its wisdom. People are looking for guidance in a complex world, and the Gita tells them, "Shushhh - don't worry about it! Just know your place in life (your caste, or the position life has dealt you) and fulfill your duty. Everything else is the concern of your superiors and the gods. If you do that, your life will be happy, and purposeful, and easy." People love that, of course. And 3000 years ago this might have been good advice. But Oppenheimer shows where this can go wrong, if one takes this philosophy to its conclusion. It might have been a good way to structure ancient Hindu society, but it is not the philosophy for the world of today. Like, well, most ancient religious philosophies, to be honest.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Yeh good reading. I've always found certain sacred texts very sus. They're just elaborate excuses for the status quo and keeping those with power where they are.

[@PeterSchmuttermaier]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I mean you can't blame them - they had to run a society and everything that helps stabilizing it, was deemed good. They didn't have philosophies beyond control. The development of Buddhism and Jainism were actually counter movements to the Vedic traditions of ritual and control. Around the same time, similar schools of thought arose in China and Greece, that focused on the concerns of the individual. And based on Greek thought, the enlightenment happened in Europe, as well as rapid scientific developments, and now we are so far beyond those philosophies. Or are we?

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@PeterSchmuttermaier Hmm, I'm not super sure what you're trying to say or even if we disagree here but I have thoughts. I'm not sure I can sit here writing a long essay on KZbin though haha So I'll say at least: 1) stabilizing to society =/= good for it. and also, there are ways to stabalize a society beyond hierachical structures and superstitious frameworks. Its not a queston of blame but more explanation without endorsment. 2) And those counter movements you mention became themselves status quos that leveraged themselves against people for their own benefit and continued existence. 3) Focussed on concerns of the individual? I'm not so sure. Most traditions such as these focus on the concerns of the powerful and how to maintain that power with a vaneer of consideration for the masses as you mentioned before. What is truly concerned with the individual I would argue, wouldn't focus on individuals. 4) We got the dark ages from Greek and Roman thought too though. Plato and Aristotle were very much co-opted by christian and islamic thought. and whatever scientific progress was made, was often made in opposition to the thought of the day. So I'm not sure you could draw a line from greece to the enlightenment quite so neatly. 5) Umm, you're super handsome and the beard is great :D

[@bluelotus.society]

You completely missed the point of the Gita.

[@bluelotus.society]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746Not at all the correct interpretation of the scripture. Did you even read it?

[@SimGunther]

Jebby Bush: _Please Cope_ **Audience weakly copes**

[@gwenrose3211]

I didn't get the impression at all that the film wanted to portray Oppie as "too smart for Marxism", to me these scenes came across as him having only a superficial understanding of political theory, and being too much of an egotist to commit to any position. He can't commit to his comrades, nor the US government, nor his child, nor his wife or his mistress. He just does and says the things that make him feel most important. By the time we see him take a firm stance on something (The construction and proliferation of nuclear weapons) it's too late, he's haunted by guilt and shame, all he can manage to do is uselessly submit himself to whatever punishment McCarthyism will carry out against him. If Nolan wanted us to think of him as great then why make him such a worm?

[@p3r3n5]

In the video Kay supports their reading by using Oppenheimer’s actor’s terrible Dutch being overlooked as an example of Nolan’s potentially not bothering to understand or research the nuances of if what he was writing was actually true of Marx. I haven’t seen the film but based on Nolan’s other works I can see him writing that type of “worm”-y guy and thinking he’s cool, so that’s where I think the video is coming at it from. I think it’s a much more interesting concept for it to be able a “well actually” guy falling to his hubris though, I like your reading of it

[@PWN3GE]

See I think that superficiality came from Nolan's reading, rather than Oppenheimer's actual mentality. Oppenheimer comes off as self-important because Nolan thinks Oppenheimer IS the most important man who ever lived, he says it many times in interviews, and even writes it into the movie as a line for Strauss - the problem is it's not true. Not only could you make arguments for all kinds of other more important people: Jesus, Einstein, the caveman who discovered fire - but also Oppenheimer wasn't even the most important scientist at Los Alamos, he just became the most famous. Had Oppenheimer refused to work on Manhattan, the bomb would still have been built. I think the video here is right that his motivations were far more idealistic in nature, rather than a pursuit of personal benefit. Like the warrior in the Bhagavad Gita who's duty was to fight and kill- as a scientist, Oppenheimer felt his duty was to do the science.

[@KarimElHayawan]

​@@PWN3GEOppenheimer isnt even like in the top three of most important people in WWII (because Stalin occupies all three spots).

[@TheAnthery]

@@KarimElHayawan top one guy who almost completely destroyed the Soviet Union at every possible opportunity.

[@MeliDMR93]

I was also weirded out by some takes in this. This film never gave me the impression Oppenheimer-the-movie was making a light reading of his feelings on the bomb by having the iconic quote being read during sex. Rather, we're meant to see a juxtaposition of his personal life and the choices he made on a scientific level. He had a mistress while married, he snitched on his communist coworkers, he lead the bomb project. By the time the quote is applicable, already his wife has TOLD HIM AND US: you do not get to suffer from the choices you made and then expect us feel sorry for you(she says it about his affair, but the whole point of mixing things previously is that you apply it to both). It is NOT that he felt his action innevitable (in the movie's interpretation of him), but rather, that he DOES NOT GET to do this thing and then have another hour of movie exploring his guilt so we feel sorry for him. He has a scene of guilt in that theater, and then, just a bombardment of the consequences of working with rhe US military.

[@JohnnyTheWolf-d3p]

My biggest surprise with the movie is that Christopher Nolan did not cast Michael Caine as Albert Einstein.

[@brassen]

"She was only sixteen years old"

[@JohnnyTheWolf-d3p]

@@brassen [In a thick cockney accent] "Some people just want to watch the whole burn." Then Ken Watanabe shows up as the token sympathetic Japanese character who gives Oppenheimer his blessing to nuke Japan: "LET THEM FIGHT!"

[@brassen]

@@JohnnyTheWolf-d3pYes! Ken: "God-sama doesn't play dice" and takes that spinning thingy out of his pocket

[@Ash-Winchester]

I'm not gonna lie, I was legitimately caught off guard upon learning that the communist manifesto is only twenty pages. I was expecting it to be about as long as Anderson's biography on Che Guevara. A very thick book.

[@blede8649]

​​@@emisformaker Not really. Capital is a very lengthy, in-depth analysis of capitalism, its inner workings and contradictions. It never even touches socialism. The Communist Manifesto is a short pamphlet put together in a couple of months, so as to time its publication with the revolutions of 1848. It only very briefly goes over the most basic concept of capitalism, gives more space to addressing anti-communist talking points, then (briefly) critiques other currents of socialism, goes over the prospects for socialism in various countries, and ends with a call to action.

[@someotherandomman]

​@@emisformakerNo, you may be thinking of Value, Price, and Profit or Wage Labor and Capital.

[@amiablereaper]

Yeah the Manifesto is relatively snappy, it was made to be. Capital is the bigger, heftier work

[@Sneaker3719]

So in other words, the main message of Oppenheimer is "My le bomb... le killed people?????"

[@JohnnyTheWolf-d3p]

"White Man Feels Bad"

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@JohnnyTheWolf-d3p "White Man Feels Bad But Not Bad Enough To Stop"

[@TheRunningLeopard]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746I got a good chuckle out of this because that’s it, that is my first ever Star Wars oc, that I made when I was 15. (I wanted to fill in the lore of who helped make the Starkiller Base, so it’s relevant to this video, technically.)

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@TheRunningLeopard I don't do Star Wars so I'm not sure what you mean, but you're welcome! :D

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746Wtf was he supposed to do historically speaking?

[@EllinasParamythas]

"Just doing my job", yeah pushing against this notion alone could prevent a lot of harm

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Why is fighting fascism bad?!! Try reading about Nanking sometime...

[@EllinasParamythas]

@@The4thResidentofEvil Why would I be against fighting fascism?

[@MatauReviews]

@@EllinasParamythas they're a troll

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

​@@MatauReviewsHow about YOU read about Nanking...

[@bigsky1047]

the virgin "I am become death" the chad "we're all sons of bitches now"

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Love your work :) discovered y'all like a few months ago, then saw you on The Deprogram and was like hell yeh :D

[@Cheskaz]

This is me getting fixated on a thing while being someone who loves musical theatre; but with the Dutch stuff. Fuckin' just bring back dubbing. It's fine. If you want to be next level. do what Deborah Kerr and Marni Nixon did in The King and I and have the dubor and dubee work together to create a great, cohesive performance.

[@Jonnie1905Boom]

King is back!!! Also perfect timing as I was going out for my daily walk and I have amazing content to listen to now!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

And he attacks those who FIGHT fascism rather than you know THE ACTUAL FASCISTS COMITTING WAR CRIMES.

[@Jonnie1905Boom]

@@The4thResidentofEvil Kay didn't attack USSR in the video!

[@Firebringer121]

I do hate lots of languages = lots of intelligence. Its a skill just like anything else, and I'd be curious how much of that dutch Openhiemer retained after giving that lecture in the Netherlands. Cause in my experience if you don't use it often enough it weakens, like a muscle.

[@Salsmachev]

No idea about Oppenheimer specifically, but I've found that once you reach a certain level the atrophy becomes much slower, because you tend to practice organically. Like, when I talk to myself I tend to switch between languages I've studied. The less common grammar and vocabulary gets lost, but you retain a core of knowledge that is very hard to lose.

[@Firebringer121]

@Salsmachev That's been my general experience as well, I just more meant that it would be surprising to me if anyone could keep anything but some key phrases and basic grammar patterns after 6 weeks, since that's not even a semester of formal schooling in a language.

[@VladimirLlyichLenin]

I don't know man. As a third world guy who knows 4 languages, that sounds like cope from a first world person.

[@Amantducafe]

It does equate to linguistic intelligence directly and to a very specific social skill and emotional/technical memory. I can speak 5 languages fluently, i don't consider myself smarter than anyone but i do see how my brain processes social interactions, intonations, subtext and meaning behind every conversation or word i say, there's even a degree of empathy that you develop when you can understand what someone else is saying. I've never met a polyglot that spends their life isolated from human interaction, on the contrary everyone i've met that speaks many languages are eager to learn, listen and talk. Actively engaging in some form of emotional intelligence. As for Oppenheimer, yes his Dutch probably wasn't that good but in his defence iirc Dutch is easier for an English speaker to learn the same way romance languages are easy for someone that speaks one of them. I sometimes get rusty, specially with Italian but like "magic" my brain starts processing words and meanings seconds after i start reading or listening to Italian.

[@phangkuanhoong7967]

guilt means nothing to the thousands massacred.

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Sorry, but if you were a decent human being, you'd be angrier at the fascists doing r*pe all over East Asia rather than the people FIGHTING said fascists...

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Wait until you hear about what happened in Nanking...or Unit 731. Try reading something for a change, you historical illiterate!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Imagine being more angry about the U.S. fighting fascism in E Asia than THE ACTUAL FASCISTS doing GENOCIDE there!

[@MrNoobomnenie]

@@The4thResidentofEvil if US actually cared about fighting fascism, then maybe instead of nuking civilians (20000 people killed in Hiroshima were Korean slaves btw) they could have, you know, prosecuted all of the actual people responsible for the genocides in East Asia (like, for an example, Nobusuke "Monster of Showa" Kishi, who not only was allowed to keep all of his government positions, but even later became a literal Prime Minister)? Not to mention that the bombings did very little to actually stop Japan - the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria played a much larger role

[@Amantducafe]

@@The4thResidentofEvil There was a trial in Asia similar to the Nuremberg but the judge jury and executioner was the US and you would love to see the outcome of said trial.

[@jacavanheesch4593]

the dutch in the movie was as dutch as sims language is English

[@diandriasmith889]

Doesn't that happen often in movies? For example, I think the Lakota in Dances With Wolves was off, if I'm remembering correctly. And that wasn't just some throwaway lines; it was about half of the movie.

[@schmingles]

This is the quality of video and frequency of upload all youtubers should adhere to

[@wisdommanari6701]

I always try and guess what Skittles new title will I thought nuclear physicist and I literally cheered out loud when I got it right. My morning is already off to an amazing start.

[@danielvictor3262]

every time a "too smart for communism" bro criticize Marx it's always the things he didn't say lol Marx is probably the only philosopher who is "alive" in a way that he's actively refuting anyone who talks shit about him in his books

[@АнтонДегидонов]

In our country, one liberal blogger, trying to refute the straw scarecrow of Marxism, eventually, without realizing it, was forced to use real Marxism. The reaction to this video from real Marxists was simply homeric, and even non-leftists managed to notice it in the comments under his video =)))

[@conceptualization.6617]

@@АнтонДегидонов which liberal blogger?

[@АнтонДегидонов]

@@conceptualization.6617 His name is Maxim Katz. And he is not competent in all the issues that he is trying to sort out, even compared to other liberals. But alas, thanks to the promotion for money, millions watch it. But his video is an endless source of material for critical reviews for our left-wing bloggers. You can say this as an easy level of difficulty for them=))))

[@АнтонДегидонов]

@@conceptualization.6617 His name is Maxim Katz. And he is not competent in all the issues that he is trying to sort out, even compared to other liberals. But alas, thanks to the promotion for money, millions watch it. But his video is an endless source of material for critical reviews for our left-wing bloggers. You can say this as an easy level of difficulty for left-wing bloggers =))))

[@АнтонДегидонов]

@@conceptualization.6617 His name is Maxim Katz. And he is not competent in all the issues that he is trying to sort out, even compared to other liberals. But his video is an endless source of material for critical reviews for our left-wing bloggers. You can say this as an easy level of difficulty for them =))))

[@Cw-xu3gz]

MA! Da ferret dude's talkin' about Oppenheimer!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

He's also more angry about the U.S. FIGHTING fascism rather than at you know, the genocidal FASCISTS the U.S. was fighting. That's all you need to know about the ferret man.

[@Salsmachev]

My opinion of Nolan for a while now has been that he doesn't make intelligent films, he makes films that make audiences feel smart for watching them. They're complicated (or perhaps convoluted) on the surface, so if you can draw a straight line through them, you feel smart. But when you really dig into them, you realise they're kinda vapid. On the other hand, filmmakers who engage with complex themes in an approachable way will never get credit for what they do. Oppenheimer was essentially more of the same. It really didn't have that much to say, when you get right down to it.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

He's like Steven Moffat writing Sherlock, if it were a Hollywood movie. The writing is "clever" and "smart" aesthetically, but its never "intelligent" actually.

[@Salsmachev]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 Ooh perfectly put. I love the comparison.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@Salsmachev haha thanks :) ya welcome! :D

[@akay_2]

Thanks for another lovely analysis and critique!

[@SPDYellow]

If some of the stuff you said in the video is true, well, I can understand why Truman basically said, in response to Oppenheimer talking about having blood on his hands, "Yeah well I have even more on mine, and you don't see me going around being a little bitch about it!" Because Oppenheimer's ostentatious self-flagellation becomes less believable when you know about stuff like him telling the military the perfect moment to detonate the bomb to ensure the max number of civilian casualties. And as you pointed out, while he voices milquetoast, token objections, ultimately when push came to shove, Oppenheimer fell in line. I wonder how well the film explores this. Does it take Oppenheimer's words at face value--i.e. that he genuinely felt these sentiments--or does it delve into the possibility that he's trying to reassure himself; he has an image of himself as a good man, but a good man wouldn't have created the A-Bomb and told the military how to best utilize it over a civilian target. Resolving this dissonance would require Oppenheimer to admit that he is not a good man and is, in fact, a monster who did horrible things to people who didn't deserve it. But that's a damn big step to take, requiring a lot of emotional maturity that few people are capable of, so obviously he had to come up with his own way of living with this dissonance, assuring himself that it was all out of his hands and convincing himself that his milquetoast disapproval softens the consequences of his actions.

[@postmodernmarxist101]

Been waiting for this one for a while. It was a very good video, although for me the biggest conflict in the movie is the "way of making science" and" the acquisition of knowledge" in itself. While in the "European/or non-American culture" the act of making science in itself is valuable, or at least it used to be, in the American way, it's a much more pragmatic way of doing science, it's exclusively utilitarian. And I think in the movie you can see and understand that science in Europe and the USA are very distinct, both serving opposite goals. In any case, happy to see another video from you, hope the next one will come soon. Solidarity comrades.

[@RonTheAnarchist]

EVERYBODY SHUT UP IT'S A NEW KAY AND SKITTLES.

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

AND THEY'RE MORE ANGRY ABOUT THE U.S. BOMBING GENOCIDAL GASCISTS THAN THE FASCISTS COMMITTING GENOCIDE!!!

[@shahramtondkarmobarakie1824]

command said we got our once a year ration of kay and skittles videos, and here it is!

[@T_Dot94]

This video essay is some good shit.

[@Huy-G-Le]

Finally another upload, it's been forever.

[@someotherandomman]

Glad you are back. This was excellent work!

[@TheLostArchangel666]

Tfw you're part of that 1% of the audience that speaks Dutch

[@wanderinggamer5079]

As someone who tries engaging in this type of analysis and usually sits alone at parties…or with my friends. Thank You Kay, and Skittles too. I feel less alone.

[@riley1586]

I’ve actually been looking for a nuclear physicist

[@ormapa1206]

I followed you after the Barbie video and when this appeared today I had completely forgotten but wow it is incredibly well researched and explained.

[@leitmotif7268]

Skittles is such an accomplished ferret, truly a ferret’s ferret

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Don't heap too much praise on a fascist sympathizers like Kay and Skittles. This video is where they have clearly outed themselves as such.

[@leitmotif7268]

@@The4thResidentofEvil I didn’t realize that ferrets could be fascists or sympathizers, but I suppose that one can never be too careful.

[@idiotandco.1750]

"The Dumb Guys writing Smart Guys" effect. I'm using that in the future. Also, a short critique since I need practice anyways: I didn't find your introduction to the critique of Nolan's conception of Oppenheimer (that's a mouthful) to be very effective. It's perhaps too pedantic for the most important section of the video: Whereas the introduction draws us in, those following minutes help us understand what the rest of the video essay is going to look like. That you admit the pedantry does not necessarily make the *location* of it any better. The analysis itself was good enough, but it should have come later. Honestly, I think that section should have been just a *little bit* more like a thesis in an essay, especially given that the themes you discussed here do repeat. Maybe I've just spent too many hours writing essays to actually appreciate a good video essay, though. The following and primary section about Marx, Communism, and Oppenheimer's conduct is quite effective, and I am ever appreciative of your citations. As always the depth of your research impresses. I do find myself wishing however that you had a sources document, especially seeing as you already cite in-text/video. The conclusion was as per your standard highly, highly effective, though it puts a bit of shame to the intro. Now do Cyberpunk. Please. For the love of god.

[@jammysmears4077]

As a Scottish person who has lived in the Netherlands for more than a decade and speaks Dutch, I can tell you for certain that if you make a mistake, you will be told about it.

[@AnarchistArtificer]

Man, now I need to go and watch Oppenheimer, so I can come back and watch this video.

[@largeproblem]

I’m losing my shit over the fact that Oppenheimer’s justification for wiping out countless innocent lives was perhaps functionally identical to the message of the Lorax (“if I didn’t do it, someone else would”). Great video and analysis!

[@sietsebuijsman8523]

Man, I agree SO much about the Dutch part. Nolan could've emailed ANY Dutch physicist to write a few correct Dutch sentences about some quantum physics and they would've happily provided. Why did they go with this mess?

[@calebr7199]

Coppenheimer

[@vivanesca]

missed you!!! man you're a lot kinder to opp than i was thats for sure

[@refoliation]

Thank K + S you two make great videos 👍

[@PocketDeerBoy]

oh yeah i just checked the dutch. native dutch speaker here! it's fucking incomprehensible. you can't convince me there was any dutch speaker on-board to check any of that.

[@shahsadsaadu5817]

18:47 as a student of philosophy, i have never really understood why this white man thought that this quote was actually relevant to.the situation. Bhagwat Gita speaks of the principle of desireless action or Niskāma Karma. At whatever station of you life, do your duty, without desiring any fruits of that labour. Lord Krishna is advising The despondent warrior arjuna, who fell into despair infront of the battlefront, seeing that he now have to fight and kill his own kith and kin, such as his great granduncle Bhishma, his cousins(Kaurvas) His beloved master Drona. But he had to fight them, because throughout the entire conflict between his brothers(pandavas) and kauravas, they were treated unjustly, driven out of their, threatened with violence at every turn. Arjuna was the greatest warrior in the story, and his brothers are counting on him in this war. So the entire Bhagwat Gita is about holding onto your dharma, your duty, even if it risks everything. To use modern terms, it is an extremely Kantian in spirit. Anyone who would understand the central message of that text would not quote it to express their horror or regret for their actions. Even in the quote itself this is very poignant. Oppenheimer is quoting Lord Krishna with this "what have i become" countenance. Lord Krishna is not saying "I am become death, destroyer of worlds 😨" its more "I am become death, Destroyer of worlds 🤗". Lord Krishna is living through an Era or extreme decadence, injustice and disorder everywhere. A world filled with so much powerful individuals who are either Evil and consume to all lf their worst impulses, or are very powerful and virtuous but does not protect the weak or fight against the tyrants. Throughout the epic, you see many, many instances where horrible things happen which are either justified under the name of some notion of dharma(justice) or the ones who have dharma does nothing about it. A Helpless woman get sexually violated infront of the entire Royal court, who was none other than Arjuna's wife. While his grandsire, teacher and the entire state stood idly and watched and did nothing. So, When Lord Krishna says he is the destroyer of the worlds, there is a sense of revolutionary vengeance. He came to earth as avatar in the Dvapara era, specifically to rid the earth of the horrible tyrants whom pollute the mother earth with their mere presence, and to establish a just rule. Edit: I see that you have accounted for that.

[@saig7570]

This was super thorough and you tapped into the kind of strange way the film looks at Oppenheimer versus (what seems to be) the reality of his actions. The movie both engaged with the contradiction between his beliefs and his inaction, but like you said it doesn’t really get deep enough. I think one thing I’ll add about the Bhagavad Gita is that it’s a shame Oppenheimer may have used it to justify his course of actions because the situations in the Mahabharata and WWII are not the same. For one, the Gita isn’t telling you to just do your job mindlessly at the behest of those above you. Dharma has to do with duty and right action, and Arjuna being an instrument isn’t for the sake of another person’s plan, but an instrument of God. When Krishna reveals his true form he’s not showing just his power, but that everything and everyone is the same divine spirit. That includes destruction, but it also means that Krishna’s having already killed the enemy and having Arjuna as an instrument is highlighting the underlying commonality of all things and the superficiality of the material form and concerns. But doing the right thing in the material world and choosing to accept the opportunity given to him allows Arjuna to benefit his soul. Arjuna himself chooses to be that instrument for Krishna. It’s about surrender and having faith in the inner divine voice guiding you to do the right thing. And it’s not a thoughtless thing either. You have instances of characters in the Mahabharata doing the wrong thing and condoning people who do terrible things to others because they feel indebted to them or because of some other kind of justification, and that’s treated different from Arjuna fighting in the war in accordance to his dharma. So Krishna’s message in the Gita speaks less to blind obedience and more to introspection and doing the right thing no matter what. Faith comes from looking inwards, and though circumstances are always complicated and it can be said that dharma is subtle, it’s important to still discern what the right thing is and do it. Another thing is that the circumstances of the events of the Mahabharata and those happening in modern times also differ. It’s more clear cut that the Kauravas (the faction opposing the Pandavas, which included Arjuna and had Krishna by their side) had made enough morally reprehensible actions that they needed to be stopped, and why Krishna even involved himself so directly in the first place. The Kauravas were also Arjuna’s cousins, which is why he was so reluctant to kill them. People in modern times in the Kali Age have to contend with an even more ethically complicated reality than when the Mahabharata happened. The wisdom of the Gita can still ring true, but it’s crude of Oppenheimer to blindly apply Arjuna’s situation to his own in the way that he seemed to and then cope after the fact without doing enough to stop the nuclear proliferation. Just to clarify I hope this isn’t misread as someone telling anyone what to believe in, but just what I’ve been taught/believe about the Gita and my thoughts about its relation to Oppenheimer and the movie.

[@NAGxxOUT]

Return of the King 🙏

[@idlklc]

Thank you for giving me my opinion Kay and Skittles 🤓☝️

[@opjm8664]

Oh hey It's Kay

[@skippycoulter]

And Skittles!

[@Moeller750]

Nolan's dismissal of other perspectives is definitely a through line. I'm Danish, and watched the movie in a Danish Theatre, and when the actor playing Niels Bohr began to talk, the audience literally started laughing, because his accent is so far from anything resembling Danish, they might as well just not have bothered.

[@EyeoftheU]

Den dansk-engelske accent (ikke at forveksle med "Danglish") lader til at være en af de sværeste ting at efterligne på en nogenlunde autentisk måde. Hele anglosfæren tror, at vi enten er en eller anden form for hollændere eller tyskere. (Det faktum at vi så ikke i sidste ende bliver sat i bås med svenskerne, ved så jeg ikke, om skal ses som en fordel eller en ulempe. /s)

[@1BlueYoshi]

I find it interesting how the movie framed Oppenheimer’s meeting with President Truman as a sort of mirror of that “I am become Death” passage from the Baghavad Gita, with Truman taking the place of Vishnu and Oppenheimer of the soldier. Framing the head of the United States government as the embodiment of death and Oppenheimer as its tool is much less sympathetic view of the US than I was expecting from a Hollywood movie

[@Jurgenzoon81207]

love that you talk a lot about the dutch in oppenheimer when i first see this movie i couldnt understand anything

[@Amantducafe]

It's hard to rage against the machine

[@shanaye5361]

One of the best KZbinrs! So many critical analyses. Please do one on Interview with the vampire! Pleeeease!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Why are you praising a youtuber who spends more time attacking the ones who FOUGHT fascism rather than the ACTUAL FASCISTS doing GENOCIDE in East Asia?!

[@taveshii]

A friend is currently doing research on krishna for a completely unrelated essay they are working on, so it was very amusing to see krishna appearing here. Great video as always

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

I wouldn't call a video that seems more angry at the U.S. for FIGHTING fascism than at the actual fascist war criminals a "good job"

[@Somajsibere]

Oppenheimer: just following orders

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Imagine getting angry at the U.S. for fighting fascism and not, you know, THE FASCISTS DOING GENOCIDE!? Try reading about Nanking or unit 731, you historical illiterate.

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Imagine being so deluded that you're angrier at the U.S. for fighting fascism rather than you know, the ACTUAL GEBOCIDAL MONSTERS THE U.S. WAS FIGHTING!!!!

[@TH3FU113ZT]

Reminds me of Eren from attack on titan. SPOILERS Eren in the later half of attack on titan (season 4) kept saying that he's just moving forward and that everything he's doing is for the sake of his people and friends. The whole elaborate plan that involved speaking to his father and convincing him to kill the royal family and activating the rumbling was all for the sake of protecting the island and his people. In the end however we learn that he really just did the rumbling which killed billions of people and completely flattened the world because he kinda just wanted to. He admits that he was a big fool who didn't even succeed in what he claimed he was trying to achieve. He got many scouts like Sasha and Hange killed and destroyed the island with the rumbling as well. Not to mention the island turning into a facist regime afterwards which is hinted at lead to a nuke wiping out everything. Both Oppenheimer and Eren are characters that used slogans or euphemisms to go about creating and carrying out their destruction as a way to cope with their insane guilt they must feel. Truly pathetic people.

[@maxwellsterling]

The Dutch scene reminds me of my recent playthrough of Max Payne 3 as someone who has lived in Brazil for 27 years and interacted with people from different states. In MP3, the Portuguese dialogue is contained in several subgroups of weird, such as "why do they swear so much", "why are they talking at this time" and "who the fuck talks like that". That last one in particular was the most egregious to me because somehow enemies loved to shout random Portuguese one-liners when shot; some of them made sense, like announcing to his friends that Max just shot his arm, while others translated mostly accurately to "such pain"... nobody talks like that; Brazilians aren't just built different somehow. We also had incredibly weird phonetics mixed in with the uncanny dialogue and it's clear that something happened at Rockstar: a) they tried to represent a culture they had no idea about besides stereotypes ("hey bro, Brazilians say 'porra' and 'caralho' every 3 words, right?") b) they just somehow had not a single fucking soul from Brazil tell them "dude, this dialogue sucks, nobody talks that *and* like that anywhere in the country" c) they just didn't care about the people telling them to not use the videogame joystick in the homemade submarine and shipped it as is out of sheer fucking hubris Whatever the case, Rockstar's only mild accuracy with the representation of Brazil in Max Payne 3 was the city, which resembled the popular Brazilian metropolis...es? and actually was kinda fun to be in. Not sure who replaced all the population with foreigners trying to speak Portuguese though, which is a bit weird considering the absurd quality we have with dubbing studios and a triple A studio clearly having funding to hire popular names or just Brazilians in general who are acquainted with English. Hell, getting someone who *isn't* fluent in English actually would've been an interesting choice because a lot of people here do have a surface-level knowledge and speak English with a heavy Brazilian phonetic due to either lack of care for studying it, or lack of proper education on it. It's obviously easy to say all of it in hindsight, but I think Rockstar had a great opportunity to make one of their trademarked cynical statements about modern society, this time about Brazilian education.

[@akay_2]

SKITTLES HAS RETURNED!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

Glad that you are excited about fascist apologia. I guess Kay and Skittles still have not forgiven the U.S. army for defeating Fascism on East Asia...

[@6Shooter28]

that gym sequence was great, it's a shame most of the movie was a fairly standard biopic

[@MatauReviews]

Yes!!!

[@annabellefawn4171]

More like Copenheimer amirite ladies?

[@Idonean]

That Marx quote is essentially the equivalent of a poorly thought-through tweet without reading the thread. It's telling that both Marx and Stirner (a man he loathed and ranted extensively about) have the same 'critique'. It is explicitly the point of Proudhon's writing: To demonstrate that fundamental incoherence to the legal fiction of it all, not distribution. He also writes about how "Property is Liberty", returning to how rights & freedom used to evoke privilege rather than human rights. And "Property is Impossible". You can't respond to that with "but that's contradictory!". Yes. He knows. Proudhon has problems, even in his further ideas writing on this, but that ain't one.

[@WesleyFlatten]

Wow. I didn't know i had Oppenheimer all wrong, i thought he was in a way proud of his work. I think much lesser of him even than that low bar in some ways noe.

[@themanfromtheeast2048]

He lives!

[@mira_shindento]

Nolan is just a little soldier of neoliberalism...

[@TheKeyser94]

Really, I realise that when I began to think more critically about Dark Knight Rises, and how different it was from his indie movies like Memento, The Dark Knight trilogy really catapult him into the establishment sphere, and he never left it, any ideology that he had prior the The Dark Knight trilogy is gone.

[@osmkav8124]

They have tried really damn hard to make him a sympathetic figure, without hiding his shitty side too. It's a good film overall

[@FoxEatingBamboo]

I watched this movie with my Dutch-speaking family, and when Oppenheimer spoke 'Dutch' we all started arguing about what language that is

[@iNDY1001]

That film, really has strong Soylent Green energy.....a whole lot of public guilt floating in the psychic ether in that era too, probably the only reason the EPA got to be a thing, about the destruction being caused for their comforts, desperate to find a vessel to contain it. Nolan knows his audiences' anxieties intimately enough to know they'll ignore the ways it minimises certain aspects of spirituality....it's what a lot of silicon valley techbro culture did...trying to extract even more productivity using spiritual practices, If we suppose Oppenheimer isn't really Oppenheimer that is. Interesting serendipity or maybe the internet is getting a little more perceptive: The algorithm put William Sidis on my radar a few weeks ago, didn't realise that Sheldon Cooper savant type was based on a real person. I thought it was just an aggregate character. He wrote his last piece of work The Tribes and the States around 1935 and passed away 1944, too bad he decided to disappear and pull the monastic move....I'm so curious about that massive shift away from the work he had been doing in favour of reconciliation with the past.. That last piece might have been him pushing to build an institutional heart for the machine in round about ways, trying develop the threads and relationships to those who were disappeared from the idea of USA/ industrialisation. I wonder if they were aware of one another, being from that era that celebrated *male* great minds and mourning the could've beens.

[@KarlSnarks]

As a native Dutch speaker, I'd say that scene of his lecture in Dutch, sounds like a German trying to phonetically pronounce written Dutch. Apparently the real Oppenheimer did speak Dutch with a heavy German accent, but the way it is spoken in the film is literally incomprehensible. American films/shows are notorious for putting little effort into pronunciation of foreign languages or portrayal of other cultures though, so it's not the first time I've seen something like this happen. It does ruin the immersion and suspension of disbelief a bit for us non-American viewers, but other than that it's mostly just funny imo.

[@hyrumforstrom980]

Been waiting a while for this video

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

The one where Kay and skittles have outed themselves as fascist sympthizers? I too have been waiting for this video!

[@listenToTheRats979]

Excellent! Really good video!

[@colonelweird]

Suggestion: take a look at A Gentleman in Moscow. It's a maddening example of extreme anticommunist propaganda in the form of a prestige tv show. Ewan McGregor is great, but the Bolsheviks=Nazis trope is so heavy-handed I don't know if I want to keep watching. But it could make a good video essay.

[@TheEDBShow]

The book is much better

[@laurioho2041]

Yoo just in time for da friday shift

[@nowhereman6019]

*"No fate but what we make."*

[@kkkkkkkk652]

fantástic video once again keep up mate

[@le-ore]

great essay

[@MrGameSecrets]

what the hell....my frickin nuke killed people ? im so sad about this....i need a dramaticized biopic made about me stat...

[@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme]

YES NEW K&S VIDEO!!!

[@sami_is_freeYt]

Its nice to finally see hindu philosophies being mentioned by Western leftists, u dont have to believe wether its right or wrong. And the gita is not a guide but rather a story to make u learn what to do, its not a set of rules like whats a sin or not. U have to make that decision, but thats where humans get flawed due to interpretations

[@trombonemain]

Is that a slowed-down version of Shatner’s weird spoken-word version of Rocketman as the title drop?

[@IsmaeAscarza]

Bad Dutch being left in non Dutch films is pretty much standard

[@Altropos]

Nolan's DP, Hoyte van Hoytema, is Dutch!! Like was he not saying anything while filming this scene?

[@VladimirLlyichLenin]

Who unironically respects the dutch?

[@lizi1936]

If yall like nuclear projects and stories, I highly recommend the Chinese "Oppenheimer" called Roaring Across the Horizon 横空出世; this film made 25 years ago was wayyy better than Oppenheimer. It's on KZbin with ENG subtitles also.

[@cooljonathan]

Weapons grade copium

[@carlito___fml2652]

If you take recommendations: what do you make of Andor? I’d love to see a critique or analysis from you on it. :)

[@olivefernando7879]

the film probably also thinks 'property' means a communal toothbrush (havent seen it, does it? not literally obviously)

[@harlek1149]

Top notch.

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

It seems like Kay and Skittles still have not forgiven the U.S. for liberating East Asia from Fascism...

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

So is the movie good or bad?

[@odintheprole6068]

Ok Kay I love your work but why was there a random shot of the Army of the White Hand and Sauron lmao

[@KayAndSkittles]

I was talking about how property was distributed under capitalism it felt right.

[@deathdoor]

What? Oppenheimer was "the genius", behind the bond? From what I know this isn't true. He was important as the leader of the project, but "genius" where others. Like Fermi, for example?

[@nouveauproletariat1117]

I actually was a Nolan fan in my teenage years and early twenties and probably watched the Dark Knight 30+ times throughout them. Then I became a communist, and boy oh boy, he is such a liberal lacking in political imagination. The Dark Knight Rises is, perhaps, the most ham fisted way of saying, “Revolution bad.” Tenet was just the product of a director so up his own ass due to the ridiculous reverence given to him that no one would tell him it’s a garbage concept. So, I didn’t go see this movie. Thank you for doing that for us!

[@The4thResidentofEvil]

I guess people like you still haven't forgiven the U.S. army for ending fascist War Crimes throughout East Asia...look up Nanking.

[@SCI-FLI]

Personally the Dutch thing really doesn’t matter that much to me tbh

[@AjOkami]

Please do a video on the Fallout prime series.

[@KayAndSkittles]

There will be an AGAB episode on it later this month at the very least.

[@AjOkami]

@@KayAndSkittles Excited to see it!

[@thedashboard9562]

12:58 has me ☠🤣

[@caramelldansen2204]

the skittles......

[@Ailasher]

9:51 Nope. No one can beat Robert Heinlein with his idiotic and hilarious description of the fallacy of Marxism through one of the characters' idiotic and utterly wrong interpretation of value in his Starship Troopers. Marxism is either a big no-no, or they are just such busy that they can't be bothered to take the time to actually study what they so diligently deny and criticize.

[@fedupN]

Yeah, Heinlein. Dude's belief system was a complete and contradictory mess and his books show that to a great deal.

[@Ailasher]

@@fedupN It was quite funny and a bit cringe-worthy when I re-read this book at 20+ years old and realized what the author was "selling" as the ideal system of the golden era of future humanity - Ancient Rome during the Republic, meaning "actual" republic, not the Empire. But what's really scary is that a bunch of grown up people, not 14 year old teenagers, like these ideas. Especially in Verhoeven's blatantly parodic visuals.

[@mucharz1551]

13:00 i laughed so hard

[@Cheskaz]

Algoritheimer