Snowpiercer: Class And Intellectuals

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[@MrBazBake]

It's interesting that the working class family in Parasite is highly intelligent. The mother's great at math and an excellent cook, the son speaks English better than his upper class friend, the daughter's a tech genius and auto-didact who learns child therapy over the internet. A running theme is that bourgeois gatekeeping and artificial job scarcity underutilizes working class talent. The working class family has to "scam" their way into jobs they're qualified to do because the meritocracy myth only recognizes references and networking. And they're fully aware of the system that's pushing down on them. They discuss it with full class consciousness. The intra-class conflict of the film breaks in its third act when the father turns his anger from the sick man in the basement and kills the bourgeois patriarch who fomented that conflict. Which makes it tragic then that the ending relies on a promise of the son to join the bourgeoisie so he'll have enough power to liberate his father from his particular condition within that same system while it's unlikely that this is ever going to be possible for anyone not born into that class.

[@greenjacketguy3759]

Regarding the ending, it actually supposes to more dark/tragic than that the point is that the son will never join the bourgeoisie class (esp with the head trauma he got) but so his hope is ultimately a fantasy.

[@elizabethbennet4791]

Yeah this is it in a nutshell I remember years ago, all I was saying something about the greatest tragedy of capitalism is the loss of intelligence and productivity coming from geniuses working in sweatshops that always stuck with me.... Being a non neurotypical girl coming from an abusive and poverty-stricken household where I had the highest grades in in the class in both of my wealthy neighborhoods as well as the highest test scores in a district. But no one cared

[@Stupididiot67]

You can become just a good of a philosopher or a programmer or anything that used to require you to go to university to do for free and at home nowadays because of the internet. Jobs that require degrees only have them to keep the poors out

[@renaigh]

I don't know speaking english was a prerequisite to intelligence.

[@MindlessShowCase]

I think it's more so ability of having a second language and proficiency with said language ​@@renaigh

[@twoodin]

12:13 ". . . the lowest rungs of society and Captain America . . ." me: *sensible chuckle*

[@RadicalReviewer]

Listened to this while at work...praxis.

[@marcantoinelab12321]

I'm proud to hear that.

[@LjubicaServaas]

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime That's why I watch Skittles on company time

[@grantus_pax]

To me, Namgoong's unique PoV comes from two things. 1. He is the only (non-traitorous) member of the revolution who remembers life outside of the train. One of the biggest reasons he can see outside of the train is because he lived outside of the train, and as an engineer whose labor helped to build that train, it doesn't have the same mysticism as it does to people who grew up in it. 2. He understands humanity can survive without the train because he learned about arctic survival from an Inuit woman working as a maid on the train. It's not wrong to say he's framed as unique and special and set apart from the workers who live in the tail, but my takeaway from his story was that to understand the necessity of destroying capitalism and to learn how to survive outside of it, we need solidarity with workers of all nations, genders and races. That, plus the fact that he's compared to Curtis throughout the film, and the fact that he, too, doesn't survive the destruction of capitalism, made me overlook a lot of the ways the narrative framed him as always the smartest guy in the room.

[@bookedroomer]

Agreed. He knows that a possibility outside the train is possible even before entering the final compartment. While Curtis has to go in and find out what exactly is going on to agree. While watching the movie I thought Curtis might sell out but he didn’t thankfully.

[@mitich9850]

In addition Namgoong noticed difference in temperature outside of train as He has detected material conditions for abolishing current system

[@MsAidanbrown]

The different types of snow is also something he learned from the Inuit woman

[@bw7601]

Nice video! I like your reading of snowpiercer, but I also think (as you are probably aware), that parasite as a stand-alone work doesn’t fully support this reading. It seems to me that Min, the friend from the beginning isn’t middle class - he’s upper class, he talks about how many rooms his house has. And that means the film probably chooses to use the traditional two classes dichotomy in order to emphasise the distinction between the bourgeoisie and proletariat. But more importantly, if we look at the film as a tragedy, I’d argue the ‘fatal flaw’ of the characters (particularly Choong-sook) is rejecting the housekeepers offer of solidarity. If they had just made a deal with her and shared food, they could have survived and thrived together, the family’s ultimate downfall comes from their attempts to put themselves above the housekeeper, in their aspiration to the middle class (‘I’m not a member of the needy’). So maybe Bong isn’t saying the middle class are the answer, but working class solidarity and class consciousness? Even if you reject that reading, I’d still say parasite as a film might not be portraying such a sad/doomed working class in order to argue for middle class intelligentsia, in my eyes it presents a dark message as a warning to the audience, and (although it is obviously heightened) it attempts to portray realistically the way some working class people are encouraged by the system to act.

[@witchfynder_finder]

Parasite was, to me, an example of the idea that all power corrupts. As soon as the family got a taste of the upper-class life, they became corrupted by it and forgot their roots. Like you said, if they had worked with the housekeeper, with whom they had much more in common, things would have been radically different.

[@chagoriver7159]

@@witchfynder_finder i dont think "corruption" is the correct interpretation. it's just that individuals arent really in control, they are at the mercy of the system's incentives.

[@KookiesNolly]

@@witchfynder_finder no, I would say it actually shows that "Power always reveals" which in my opinion is more accurate than "¨all Power corrupts". People tend to confuse the former for the latter because they don't see what other people really had inside of them before getting the power to do what they've always wanted. The poor family in Parasite aspired to be rich from the very beginnign of the money, it was always their goal to simply get out of their class, not help everyone within it. They only had allegiance to themselves. The mere fact that they got the other workers fired without even questionning whether they were actually from the same class as them, shows that they never shared class consciousness with them and never cared about other poor people. If they cared, they probably wouldn't have jumped so quickly to get the housekeeper fired in the first place. Given that they are the ones who got her fired it makes sense that they simply wouldn't help her at all. Only at the end did they start feeling bad about them, as the daughter and the mother wanted to go to the basement and give them food during the birthday party. But that attitude is the equivalent of giving a few bucks to a charity to help the very poor people you fucked over. Power rarely corrupts imo. However it always reveals. If you always looked up to the oppressors, wishing to be apart of their world, well that's what you're gonna do when you get the power to reach that position. No corruption needed.

[@user-on1zq9dv7f]

Min is very much NOT coded as middle class. his family has a collection of scholar stones as mentioned in the film - these are rocks which if authentic sell for thousands of dollars apiece. to have a large collection of them very much means that they are rich

[@jackcullen5085]

Kay and Skittles, the perfect example of mutual collective labour :)

[@mcbobist]

skittles is a little lad

[@VayaKahvi]

On the education for the working class, I am reminded of a course I took at community college, I forget the name the professor gave it, but it was basically Blue Collar Humanities, looking at literature and philosophy with an angle specifically on labor, the parts that really stuck with me was the perception of labor through media.

[@nerdteacher]

THIS is something I've been looking at. Like, not specifically Snowpiercer (which is an amazing movie), but it really started clicking with me how a lot of the theorists or historical figures that I'm looking at in my research of 'educational experiments' have, like... been from the traditional intellectual class and rarely from, for example, those of the working class they sought to 'improve'. This is a super generalised statement, but it's always interesting to me to run into things like "He came from [family with connections, money, etc], studied at [the 'best' school in the country], and decided that all people of [class considered beneath them] should do [task] because this is what he saw as important." And it's interesting (and obvious) to see that it continually happens and is replicated within different areas (for example, media). Anyway, super rambly comment without clear intent, and I'm very sorry for that. Pet Skittles for me and know that I enjoyed the video!

[@allypoum]

Excellent & nuanced critique of a brilliant - if flawed - film.

[@Beesativity]

I am so glad that you put out this video. The potential and intellectual capability of the working class is criminally undervalued and underestimated. We definitely need to put an end to that stifling preconception.

[@danman1950]

I feel a lot of this can also be applied to race as well. I'd like to see a video on how intellectuals of color function in white supremacist societies.

[@VioletSadi]

A lot of theoretical underpinning was done by people like Angela Davis, and bell hooks, and Raewyn Connell and yet, a solid majority of my professors in that space are cis and white. Connell mentioned she was indirectly deadnamed at a conference, with one such academic claiming he "preferred her brother's work" by which he meant her older work.

[@themanofshadows]

Sounds like far leftist Marxist CRT mumbo jumbo.

[@CaptainMartinWalker]

How about u not visit societies where white supremacists are prevalent? Let us be in our homelands. Go be a poc sipremacist somewhere else. Plus yall aint even poc. We are, we got different colored eyes and hair. Jesus yall are entitled.

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

Me: There's no reason to live *Kay and Skittles Upload* Me: One reason.

[@berkleypearl2363]

Are you doin okay? Do you wanna talk to an internet stranger?

[@certifiedfunnyguy]

@@berkleypearl2363 nah I'm not doin ok but I have a good supportive friend group. Though you making sure a random internet stranger is OK warms my heart. Keep being excellent.

[@avadarkness666]

Aww...such positive engagement 🤗

[@daivambrosia6647]

This was a really fascinating analysis of Snowpiercer, one I hadn't considered before. I had generally interpreted the movie as being about Marxism and anarchism as two diverging sides of anti-capitalist revolution, with Curtis being the Marxist and Namgoong being the anarchist; the train becomes both capitalism and the state apparatus, with Curtis believing that they need to seize the engine and use its power to equalize society and with Namgoong believing that they need to completely abolish the train outright. I really like your interpretation and a lot of it falls into place when you considered Bong Joon-ho's background. He makes fantastic movies that really spoke to my leftist soul, but it's of course always important to criticize where necessary. Keep up the great work!

[@sungod1384]

Yo. Thats a solid interpretation

[@papacinoooo]

hi leftist. im leftist too 👋🏼

[@apteropith]

university did a piss poor job of teaching me how to be all "middle class" like ... but, then again, i'm autistic, from a very poor upbringing, and incapable both of conforming to people's gendered expectations of baseless social/systemic confidence, or of following paths laid out in front of me in the service of someone else's careerist interests ... also i'm one of those people who (in complete spite of my lack of confidence elsewhere) aren't afraid to tell "experts" to their faces that their foundational doctrinal frameworks are kinda garbage; that probably didn't help (physicists and other scientists are fucking _deluged_ with great-man theory)

[@LimeyLassen]

I think it's important the recognize the importance of friends and family. The division of the train into distinct castes with locked doors is important, because when people form these relationships their interests blur together. Out here, racism plays a critical role in preventing working and middle class people from understanding and trusting each other and pooling resources.

[@arich20]

This comment ^^^^^^^^^

[@19ars92]

Parasite Reminds me of when long time ago my sister worked for a rich family and took me once to eat at their place as a guest, I believe the rich lady who only lived her life spending money her hisband made, she thought I was cute little guy maybe because of my clothes she saw me as a wild animal without class or education, because I got impressed by their lifestyle and things I hadn’t seen before, I play with her son who was a couple months older than me and he gave me a toy he was going to destroy, and that single toy was more expensive than everything I had back at home 🥺

[@maximemoulin8761]

Why you don't have more subscribers is beyond me. Your content is amazing ^^

[@sleepy0]

would you also consider doing a video about the show? i genuently think that one was far more explicit in its political messaging

[@KayAndSkittles]

I will probably end up watching it at some point so the answer to that is a strong MAYBE

[@sleepy0]

@@KayAndSkittles oh you havent seen it? shit my dude content aside you gotta, the main actor himself is an actual treat to watch and the dog whistles (which are more like loud trumpets in this) are off the charts and make my little commie heart cry happy tears

[@hazu7882hz]

@@sleepy0 main actor also has a sick rap group called clipping that has great politics too. Check out their song blood of the fang

[@user-on1zq9dv7f]

@@KayAndSkittles you should really watch the show. it's not confirmed as of yet but there existed an actual middle/lower middle class in the TV series along with some potential for class mobility then - with tail members moving up to the lower middle class to have moderately better conditions. i wonts spoil but the middle class is shown to eventually align themselves with the tailies (except some cops) because they are ultimately all proletariat. what you see in the film are not the middle class, they are the less wealthy bourgeoisie. the series has a better view on marxist material analysis than positioned in the film and (I'm sorry to say this btw) in your video - because many of the economic "middle class" aligned with the tail because they realised that those in the actual managerial classes and the capitalists lived in luxury as a result of their labour. the prison issue is also explained more there, but admittedly not that well.

[@cobraglatiator]

@@user-on1zq9dv7f wdym middle class isn't confirmed? third car. the dishwashers and such? clearly shown.

[@raspberryitalia3464]

I'm consistently floored by your content and it lingers with me long after a first viewing. Thanks for all you do, keep up the excellent work

[@SpoopySquid]

"I've never read Marx's _Kapital_ but I have the marks of capital all over my body." - Anon

[@johnbrown6015]

This was said by Bill Haywood, founding member and leader of the Industrial Workers of the World

[@thepopulargirl1784]

It's sad to me how much of the middle classes buy into the lies of the upper classes. Even my own family buys into a lot of there propaganda, even though they've directly benefited from things the right seem to loathe, like organized labor. Even though both my parents come from poor backgrounds that performed necessary labor (farmer's/custodians). It feels like our society went backwards at some point. My grandparents were working class, yet they were able to afford homes that they raised their families in. My mother's father was a farmer, my father's father was a immigrant who never even finished high school, and yet they both owned homes in the suburbs of Southern California! Even gave there kids educations in private catholic schools. I can't even imagine a modern working class family being able to do that nowadays.

[@LandBark]

With all those videos about Snowpiercer, this movie became something special for me. First I watched the movie and while liking the beginning I questioned a lot of the logic and the workings of the train at the end. The general point was missed. Much time later I watched videos about this movie by CineFix and Nerdwriter1, later Snowpiercer - Left or Right by Every Frame a Painting. After those I found a new understanding and appreciation for this movie. Skittles and Kay video adds a new layer to this, giving me more understanding of how great this movie is. While Cinefix didn't gave us the anal-ysis of your level, I really like how they compare the ending of both the comic book and the movie. In the movie, even If system is destroyed the life goes on. In the comic, the train goes on after all life has perished. Really bleak and dark. That movie is great and so is your video. Good job!

[@readwrecks]

Just curious, have you gone back and rewatched the movie? I’ve seen a couple of review videos too, and I feel like I’ve got a new appreciation for the movie, but I never go back and rewatch it to see the things being talked about in the review videos play out in the actual movie.

[@LandBark]

@@readwrecks I did, after watching the movie for the first time I doubted I ever return to it. Less than a year ago I watched the movie again and it was fun. Some scenes hit me harder and made me think about them little deeper instead of just watching :P

[@saddoro4138]

I have never even considered this before! Definitely going to have to give Snowpiercer and Parasite a rewatch

[@WoohooliganComedy]

Thanks, Kay! 💖

[@trombonemain]

thanks for the new video, i love listening to your stuff on my drive to work.

[@trombonemain]

i do realize the irony of listening to this video on my way there, though.

[@kuriousk927]

What an underrated channel - every video I've watched is so informative and thought-provoking. Bravo, Kay and Sir Skittles!

[@shewanella614]

This is incredibly well done. Thank you for making this video

[@Vivec]

By far one of the best channels there is at the minute, love your thorough dissection of this film. Keep up the great work mate

[@izabelmeadow2757]

You're genuinely my favourite youtuber, every video is so well thought out and engaging :)

[@kaitlinarielle]

The threshold for literacy is different than the threshold for reading most theory or academic papers. I was "reading at a 12th grade level" in elementary school, but I was still really getting the hang of reading academic texts well into college. Not to argue with anything you said, everything still follows. Just i think of 14 percent of the world has no access to the news and novels because of literacy levels, means fewer people have access to theory

[@tacosmexicanstyle7846]

I completely agree, which is why it’s so confusing that revolutionaries have relied on complex brochures and manifestos of theory that are inaccessible to the people whose interests are actually represented by them. Theory bound leftists and those who look down on anyone who isn’t extremely well read are infuriating for this reason, because they can’t understand why some people can’t see ‘outside the train’ and just give up trying to make allies out of the working class. The working class does not have time to read reams of academic papers and theory, even though most people can read these days.

[@ILikedGooglePlus]

Could you argue that, instead of the engineer and the friend from Parasite representing "the intellectual class", perhaps the intention was to portray them as representing critical thinking instead? Not a criticism, love the video

[@KayAndSkittles]

You certainly could! Imo that reading also lends itself to the class based reading in my video if you go on to ask why these characters possess these critical thinking skills in the first place. But these are very good films on which you can apply a lot of different lenses.

[@Itsa-roro]

This is a really fascinating take on the flavor of socialism that bong joon-ho ascribes to. I love the concept of education in the work place and I feel like it's something I've been trying to do with my coworkers!

[@diamondd3333]

Great reading of a terrific movie! So glad you recognized the message about the middle class and its stopping power for the lower class movements!! Only wish we had more Skittles 😢😢

[@josemesa2934]

I might be over thinking, but I wanna point out that actually it wasn’t only a “middle class” man that realized they needed to break out of the system. Curtis from the working class also realized this, it just took a very specific moment for him to realize it. Which aligns exactly with what you said, that anyone from any class could be an “intellectual” or just as important for progression. So technically the writing in the film doesn’t go against that idea.

[@johnberndtsen9685]

Truly excellent work!

[@anri2229]

Great vid as always, cant wait for more.

[@big..pablo.]

great video once again love your stuff. you have great structure to your videos and your delivery is engaging. thanks for the effort you put into these videos!

[@big..pablo.]

was high asf when i wrote this the sentiment remains

[@musicdev]

Wow. I’ve already watched a few vids of yours, and man this channel is truly a gem.

[@kenster8270]

While the most obvious interpretation of the train is that it represents society, I also have an alternative reading: I remember thinking of the train as symbolizing the planet as the sole habitable place in an otherwise inhospitable universe, and the different train sections being different groups of countries, arranged by wealth/power. We only have this one earth, and the people living in the different carriages of train sections are largely stuck there. I know, I know, many people can and do migrate in order to better their lot, many most people in poor/dangerous countries have very little hope of ever reaching those more comfy wagons.

[@Kakaze1]

Maybe it's the engine sucking in so much energy that that the earth is cooling.

[@Tacom4ster]

I gotta leave my middle class parents to be a revolutionary

[@discord20]

This is a great one, Kay. One of your best.

[@scottnesham8828]

He fixes the issue with the intellectuals being outside the system in the TV show, by making the Intellectual a tailie detective and the show just slaps way harder than the movie.

[@tommasofogli8845]

The barrier of accessing information has shrunked but it's indeniable that there are still big inequalities regarding education even in wealthier countries.

[@williamspencer1978]

Fantastic video as always

[@renaigh]

my favourite part of the film was when Steve Rogers said "We're getting off this train" and proceeds to get off the train.

[@johndigirolamo5858]

I've been waiting so long for this video. Thanks for covering Snowpiercer politics!

[@UNKNOWNUSER01]

I have never seen a more engaging KZbin video. KEEP IT UP Man!

[@StickWithTrigger]

Oh, first new video after watching all your old ones

[@redbluephilia]

excellent video! thank you so much for it ps: my heart melted at 25:00

[@erikjaman4401]

You deserve so many more subscribers

[@donteatthemeatloaf]

I can always pick up on the messaging of media like this but I find it hard to really understand where it comes from or the deeper nuances. The way you explained things made it much clearer. After watching more and more of your content I feel like I'm getting better at picking up on these political themes and seeing how they impact life. Thank you!

[@Lepacaable]

Amazing video!

[@ThatOneGuy7550]

Hell yeah, loved the video!

[@huntersullivan51]

Great video, thanks for the perspective. I need to do a little thinking on my own perspective now.

[@rayesloneker6143]

had to watch this film for a class- this was SO HELPFUL

[@BrasssMunky]

Ran into your channel via your recent video about amon, was like "oh cool, more fun lefty media critique, neat." Then this pops up, and oh my hot damn, this is top notch work comrade. Subbed, binging now.

[@mgmcdb7606]

Yeah! Hey team, thanks for the video.

[@callumbyrne4263]

Ah darn it, I hate finding a new video essay creator because it adds a new backlog of videos I have to watch through! Amazing video

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

I have a question. If a person actually does come from the middle class, has gained knowledge of capitalism and its evils, and wishes to become an instrument of change, how CAN they actually help outside of the condescension of Traditional Intellectuals? I’m a college student currently, in my second year and on the path to becoming an English teacher, and I come from the middle class. Is there a way that I can contribute to the movement without merely becoming a sympathetic elite? While I have the chance, I’d like to alter the trajectory of my professional life if possible, and try to help in a way that doesn’t empower traditional power structures. While I’m sure this may seem uncomfortably personal, I am sincerely curious.

[@lewildwest]

It's like when that rich man asked Jesus how to get into Heaven. The answer is exactly what you are afraid of.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

@@lewildwest So what, there’s nothing I can do? There’s no way I can contribute? I’m destined to be a drain on the working class no matter what? I’ll just need to go about my life in a purgatorial state where doing the right thing is impossible? Where I’m just good enough a person to want to help people, but just bad enough a person to be incapable of doing so?

[@udutuleb]

@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick You can always spread the good word inside your social group, teach the kids what you have learned, show up at rallies, provide monetary support, call out bullshit where you see it, maybe try and work yourself into a position of power within the current educational system so that you can influence on a wider scale what is being taught in schools...etc. Right now we're at a point where the left is gaining traction but we still have so so many miles to go before we can start talking about overturning the system. Just do what you can, be a good person. It's not like quitting college and "joining the working class" is going to a have a bigger impact in the long run.

[@alchemicpunk1509]

@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick That's not what Red Panda said, it seems like you don't know the passage. That being said, wether the career you are aspiring to is petite burgeoise or high paid worker, it's not like the middle class isn't currently in the process of being stratified out of existence, either. But since you're trying to become an English teacher, presumably in an English speaking country, your classes will likely involve literature and history a lot. Teach the parts that the burgeoise would like to keep silent. For instance, openly adress that George Orwell was a socialist when discussing Animal Farm or 1984, or how a lot of the authors who are mandatory reading were huge active or passive racists and that your students, as a result, should be critical of every author they do read. The Uncle Tom character in Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn and how Uncle Tom has become a term associated with Black men who protect racists and racist institutions also comes to mind. Informing students about the ways to research anything they're interested in via the Internet and how to distinguish truth from fiction is also a good idea. In short, the kids are alright, you can help them figure it out on their own without tipping your hand too much.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

@@alchemicpunk1509 Ah, I see. Thank you very much.

[@trishtrash9339]

Thanks for your part in educating everyone.

[@hellofriend545]

Another excellent video, Kay! Well done, you continue to impress and inspire. I would appreciate it if you included your sources listed in the description, or if you had encountered any interesting readings upon researching for your video. Stay safe and healthy during this tumultuous time!

[@jessicagoetz8580]

Amazing video and really nuanced view of the movie! I remember watching it and felt it was off on some aspects. This was a great watch

[@normtrooper4392]

I really liked this video. It's probably my favourite reading of Snowpiercer to date. Give skittles lots of treats. I don't think most people like capitalism. I think that except if you're a CEO or someone high up, the visceral experience of capitalism is awful for you. But in the absence of other ideas, you have nothing to really challenge the worldview that is imposed on you. It's very easy to steer people who are being hurt by capitalism into a different place other than socialism. The working class of people are as divided as ever and fractured very much along these lines. My worry is that we don't have the means to challenge the mass media apparatus that exists today to funnel people away from socialism. We talk about the power of the independent platform or free access to information, but for every one channel like this, there's many more channels being pumped through the media algorithms to build a pipeline away from leftism. I do not see how we can really convince the masses of people if we are still relegated to being small players in a big pond. I would imagine that something within the system needs to change to allow us to compete more fairly for the freedom to convince people. Socialists are still the overwel minority of people right now in general society. But within the context of the movie, I think that's why there had to be some external idea to propose a different solution. I have to wonder, without being informed that other ways are possible, what would we as people reproduce as a social system if we had no overlords above us right now? I also have to wonder how you feel about the metaphor of the train's destruction inside the text of the film. The train had to be destroyed for people to escape it, but by the time it was, the world outside was thoroughly too hostile for the people who survived to have anything more than an uncertain future. Would their survival have been better had they been able to slow the train to get more resources off it? Was it only possible to stop the train by detailing it? What does that imply for our society? We talk about destroying capitalism but what does that actually mean? If we do anything like an indep revolution, invariably it will be crushed by counter-revolutionary forces or subsumed back into capitalism. So we would need some kind of global revolution? But how might that work in a world where so many of us now depend on this fragile interconnected global supply chain web to live? There's a lot of thought provoking questions raised here by your analysis. Thank you for making it. Edit: I know that a revolution will by necessity result in harm to someone. We shouldn't preclude it because some people will be harmed, I just want to consider ways we could minimise that harm when it comes.

[@a1t3rmusic]

your videos are always top-notch

[@schadowizationproductions6205]

6:22 hehehe train-ing

[@TheSovietSuperpower]

Personally, I read the implication that Bong lays out in his movies, that some Middle Class participation in a revolution is necessary to ensure its successful shift away from current structures, to be a nod towards something unique to the Korean labor and communist movements, which is their inclusion of Samuwon. Samuwon are a middle class of "intellectuals" (used to describe literate people before the introduction of mass literacy campaigns) that comprised the ranks of office workers and clerks. They actually are even included in the flag of the Worker's Party of Korea, the familiar hammer and scythe representing workers and peasants, with the stroke brush representing the Samuwon. Also, Lenin did argue in his text "What is to be Done?" that while indeed workers will become rather organically radicalized by their interactions with their bosses in the workplace, that they are also quite often too occupied with their workloads to have the time and opportunity to re-imagine society another way, which is typical of any class as the base of support for a social and economic revolution. Capitalism as a system wasn't brought about by Bourgeois merchants leading the salon discussions of how to reorganize society- they were absorbed in their businesses and making profits, leaving the actual work of drafting a new Social Contract that would Ultima favor their mode of production to a class of lawyers that wanted to replace the obligatory relations of Feudal/Manorial society with transactional relationships of Liberal/Capitalist society. Lenin basically says that workers will only ever develop "Trade Union Consciousness" if left to their own devices, which is to say, they would fight for pay raises and better living conditions, but couldn't imagine a total reconstitution of society, instead seeing improvements to the society they already lived in as preferable. It would them take someone from that intellectual class (like Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, etc.) from the tradition of political economy, to actually take that energy and direct it, not into futile efforts to make liberal society more humane (because the economics of it would not allow such a thing to happen), but rather an actual alternative organization of a new society around a different mode of production and accumulation.

[@inthedetails5467]

I usually don’t compliment people, but this is a truly brilliant video essay; well done.

[@wobblystreet3402]

Banger after banger

[@monicavelazquezrodriguez3035]

Also, there is a movie addressed to this topic, too, is named High Rise, and is very alike to this movie. It reminded me in the aspect that nobody leaves the train. You should see it (if you want).

[@ungulatemanalpha]

I think it's worth noting that Curtis, when offered the opportunity to seize the train and becomes its leader, instead destroys his arm in order to save the child trapped within it. He proves that Namgoong's belief that the system will inevitably reassert itself is wrong, but Namgoong's plan proceeds to destroy the system anyway.

[@QuestingRefuge]

So glad to see education being brought up more. I need to see this movie still but very interested in what was mentioned here. Another example I always think of that with experience vs purely intellectual knowledge comes up so much with disabilities and doctors. It's really just a more specific example of the dynamic you're talking about

[@LEEboneisDaMan]

This was great!

[@rudypea]

Great work bruv

[@dustind4694]

The trick is more that comfort and desperation are both levers of control that the system accounts for. Fear of the back and desire for the front are part of the train. Namgoong isn't middle class, or a traditional intellectual, he is a political prisoner, whose knowledge of the machine's workings and the possibility of life without it made him both too dangerous to allow freedom and too useful to kill. His alignment with the back enders is frankly the only reasonable choice, since his only hope for anything but waiting to die in that cell and wondering if his kid will be allowed to live is if things change radically.

[@icneo9738]

I've got some Marx to catch up on but everything I hear about Gramsci is a straight up banger, got to read him soon.

[@LogicGated]

We do love representations of class conflict.

[@jemolk8945]

Well said. You're right; you certainly don't _need_ people like me (traditional-ish lefty intellectual from traditional intellectual parents) to guide the revolution. I and people like me are no more important to the project of building a better world than anyone else. That said, I still think I have some perspectives and resources that will be of use to the revolution due to that background as well. I have much more intimate familiarity with the way coercive power destroys even those who wield it, for example, and hence why it's not actually in anyone's interests to hold it, unless they value power for its own sake, as an end in itself. Not that I think you were necessarily saying otherwise, of course.

[@KayAndSkittles]

Definitely happy to have you! I certainly don't mean to say we don't want middle class intellectuals and Gramsci didn't think that either, just that we need to not be fully reliant on them for direction.

[@jemolk8945]

@@KayAndSkittles And I'm happy you don't need to rely on us, TBH. I don't think I could deal with that kind of pressure. I'm a leftist in no small part because I want desperately to actually be allowed to be equal to other people, rather than being put above or below others because being autistic makes me different. Also because I'm hyper-empathetic and can't truly be happy long-term as long as I know someone somewhere is suffering, but that's a separate point. Lol.

[@SmallBeanImperialist]

We will watch your breadtube career with great interest. Awesome videos

[@dimashpakova4286]

Very hot analysis!

[@Psytinker]

Nuclear take: being an English-speaking internet user and watching this video means you are part of the "middle class" in this globalized and outsourced world. This post was made by the Third Worldist Gang

[@Rubylove48]

Excellent analysis. Thanks, 👏🏽✌🏽👍🏽

[@thomasgray4188]

It feels weird watching this now I'm going to university to become an engineer and work on the railways.

[@petrosstefanidis6396]

Our judgement of the intellectuals should not be based on expectations, but on their actions. As for our expectations of leadership _by_ them, I totally agree with the video's conclusion.

[@clarapilier]

Great video.

[@Xenocristo]

Great video! I have to confess that when I saw the movie I didn't saw Namgoong as a guiding intellectual (not to undermine Gramsci's distinction) but as someone more akin to Benjamin when he wrote “Marx says that revolutions are the locomotives of world history. But the situation may be quite different. Perhaps revolutions are not the train ride, but the human race grabbing for the emergency brake.” (I may have related those ideas triggered by the train itself XD). In my opinion, the movie acknowledges that Namgoong's certainty about the need of risking it all going outside of the system is so much harder to assume than simply realizing the way ideology justifies the system. His conviction really seems suicidal, and as such, it is understandable to dismiss it (even when the alternative is the oppression of most people). Curtis is the real leader but his intention is to end inequality on the train (a far more appealing idea), as he is convinced that the resources in the train can be organized fairly and that the outside is unbearable. Only with the final realisation that the system cannot be changed will Namgoong's insight ring true and allow him to decide: rather a dire chance of a mankind's survival than a everlasting doom. If anything, I do suspect that Curtis' decision may have been also motivated by a mistrust of mankind itself... Well, at least, he didn't chose to become a tyrant as many others do... As you rightly point out many of these stories find it hard to articulate how revolutionary ideas are shared and developed collectively and how mankind's destiny should be a matter to be decided by all of us.

[@15clank]

RESPECT!!!!!

[@thattylerguy2104]

In this movie I think it's more of a proof of concept, cause in their world we're all squished together instead of a wide world, and the internet doesn't appear to be in their world anymore. So any knowledge from the back would come from any from out of the train and any info passed on from those parents

[@irinauuuu]

17:09 guys, do you know about sci-hub?)

[@anthonylaviale3021]

One aspect of this discussion that is missing is the emergence of the knowledge based working class. Between the advent of the information economy, erosion of the middle class and uberisation, we have a growing number of highly educated people, working creative or intellectual jobs for a pitance. These people have access to the knowledge and culture of the middle class but experience many of the hardships of the lower classes, and as a result are prominent force for social change. Another missing aspect is the large number of hybrids. Many people need a job, but also own capital in the form of pension plans, stocks, rental real estate.. This form of middle cladd waters down any reformism.

[@itskoile1985]

thank you :)

[@bodywithoutrecordings]

Hey yall

[@someesingh2827]

With regards to the argument of "middle" class leading Communist revolution, most of the exceptions to the norm are considered as evil tyrant dictators by misguided idiots. These people had relatively humble background- Stalin (son of a leather worker), Molotov (son of a butter churner), Mao (son of a peasant), Mikhail Kalinin (same), Ho Chi Minh (same), Kim Il Sung (son of another revolutionary who was indeed from working class background), Muammar Gaddafi (son of a Bedouin), Erich Honecker (son of a coal miner).....list goes on and on. To be honest most Communists actually belonged to working class background. Fidel Castro, Lenin, Che, Fredriech Engels among others are the exception.

[@Mrjmaxted0291]

Came for the ferret, stayed for the class analysis.

[@mishat5405]

Reminded me a lot of the Freedom Skools

[@Andrea-rw9tf]

I think that a lot of the working class understand where they are, and don’t really care as long as they can blame someone else for them being working class.

[@sorzin2289]

Well the working class is pretty big. It encompasses billions of people. I'm sure that there are others who feel quite differently. I know I do

[@amandatsikas7140]

OHH BIIIIIIG STRETCH from skittles 😍

[@chcknpie04]

Holy shot this absolutely did not show up in my feed

[@kongspeaks4778]

I love the references to Oxford

[@kaitlyn__L]

“owning your house does not make you bourgeoise” well I’ve sure seen a lot of hot takes that disagree, lol, with the vague and bad idea that “well you’ve gotta have been making money to do it! or you inherited it which is even worse!”. Though I’m sure you’ve seen those takes which is why you said it :p