Orchids............watering, water quality chat

[@fishyplantman4982]

Plants are looking good as always. And lots of good info to. I do believe a good quality meter is important. I wouldn't have a $200 unit if I didn't believe that. But I also believe temp is important you should always test PH at the same temp. Especially if your using liquid reagents that changes color.

[@fificorina]

What a great quality chat, love seeing your orchids Rick!

[@fredrickg77]

Thanks Rick for another amazing and educational video.

[@ashleymarquez7630]

Hi Rick, Honestly I haven't seen another great video with beautiful, clean. ...orchid's👍

[@rickl.orchids]

so sweet Ashley..........thank you

[@FernandaNascimentoOrchids]

Amazing healthy plants, marvelous roots. So nice to see, thanks for showing it to us. Happy growing.

[@OrchidudeBcn]

Hey Rick, what a great video! So much good, solid information. This one’s getting bookmarked and saved for future reference...a definite gem! Thank you ;)

[@rickl.orchids]

thanks John....water is one of those we can all talk about all the time....

[@fionagrace2111]

Wonderful information Rick, thank you, very much appreciated.

[@EduardoCampos-qd9wj]

Orchids growing beautiful Rick.Could you make a video checking the Ph levels of different bottles of water brands so everyone will have an idea what’s the better to use for watering the orchids..I would appreciate.Thank you

[@rickl.orchids]

Eduardo......I could do that......but it changes from one bottling plant to another......the same brand of bottle water could be coming from many many water sources..... the companies can approve several suppliers to fill bottles for them.....I will check into that for you........good idea.

[@FollowingHim-oc2vw]

Great growing and teaching

[@quilaquabo8693]

About b

[@ashleymarquez7630]

You are # 1👌

[@mylittlegarden2887]

Ohhh... It's soooo beautiful...🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸🌸

[@marygorchidsmore2058]

That is pretty ! Thanks for sharing.

[@IDEAHC]

great video🤗👍

[@blinkbunny9781]

That cute little tillandsia mount right next to the flower, what a gorgeous pink. My tap has alot of chlorine , sometimes you cam smell it....I only use rain water. I had no idea bottled water. Was so tricky.

[@poodlepup1]

great video as usual Rick thank y ou for taking the time sorry have not sent video to you... will do tomorrow... if you are up to it.... have several in tea solutions 24hrs over several days.. and 2 have burst through with new root nubins... one was de hydrated no roots.. except for 2 aerial roots....... hve mixed up the fertilisers last week used the old one A&B and this week using Peters excel...cal mag its humid at the moment heavy skies 21deg C at night and 27 during the day... sticky and hot..so here is hoping for good moment from the phals etc...

[@rickl.orchids]

no worries Chris, I live in slow motion.....lol.....Im really curious to see your results with the Peters.....and anxious to try it myself........still wonder if they will need more Ca or Mg....With that tea....its to drop ph and also add some tannin's.....real strong acidic tea can do more harm.....less is more......the plants will respond pretty quick if they are at all.......fingers crossed for some humidity and rain.....take care of yourself my friend, thanks for the thoughts....

[@plips71755]

Another great video. It is so good to have your experience out there. Our county tests the water monthly by location. And we can call them, give them our address and they will read off what we want to know. About 2 x a year we get a full report in the bill. Ours ranges from 7.4-7.8. . When I check straight from tap (not a pour through), it has been fairly on target to what they have told me the tests were.It’s cheaper than paying for a report. I have to tell you...tickled to see such good results with plain old river rock and lava rock.Lots cheaper. Though as you and others have mentioned - it really depends on your individual environment. Speaking of which...what part of the country are you located in and do you have any of yours in the house like many of us which are much drier than a greenhouse or in the summer like here in Virginia where humidity can be higher than temp or pretty close to the same. If so, do you have to adjust the media or water more often? Keep educating us. Oh another question, did you say you are keeping your probe in your 7.0 calibration solution as opposed to a storage solution? Mine said 1) not to let the probe get dry, use a special storage solution, calibrate at least once a week if using regularly, not to store in distilled or deionized water - only use those for cleaning. Is that what you do or do you use the 7.0 for storage. Also do you ever calibrate at the 4.0 or ever at the 10. I had been using the strips because that was what I used years ago but moved to a meter so a learning curve on calibration importance. Again tickled to have a hydroponic guy out here. Bless you.

[@rickl.orchids]

Rose....Im located in mid Alabama.....and all mine are inside at the moment.........its cold and wet outside.....I haven't had any issues inside with them, and after almost a year in the gravel, river rock, and lava.......i wouldn't do anything different.....except maybe mount more of them.....I love the mounted orchids........but they are doing fine.......I am keeping the humidity up around them......but watering has been fine so far....as for media.....they wont ever get removed from those pots......just, set the pot they are in... into another pot and add some more gravel...around it....done!...... ......my ph probes I keep in 7.0 solution.....for those reasons........keeps it calibrated better.......thanks for the kind words

[@katebeedot6964]

Hi Rick hope all is well. Well, tap water in Rome is 330 ppm and pH is 7.8, when boiled and when solutes deposit its ppm goes down to 110 and pH falls only slightly (7.5). When I started the orchid trip (phals) using tap water the plants were making faces, so after weighing varying factors (light, humidity, etc) I thought of the nice tasty tap water they were getting and decided to get good meters to find out what was wrong. In the end bought some good flat mineral water (ppm 67, ph 7.4) and orchids finally started putting out green root tips, backed up by your excellent fertigation methods. Still, some orchids were prone to root rot (store plants) and rot always started at the very top of the roots stuck in the tiny plastic middle baskets which I started to remove: in fact the strong big healthy phal with big deep green leaves was bought at a proper garden centre and is still as it was. But.. but though I’m careful about ph and tds of the fertilizing mixture I find I always have to add few drops of lemon juice to lower ph to 6.5.suppose I have to get the lowering ph bottle. To make a long story short it’s actually a hassle getting things right with balancing the mixture, starting with water. Know that RO is the answer. Just have to keep away from supermarket plants (not always that cheaper anyway) because rot that starts in the velamen at the top end of the roots (leaving just the filament) is hard to control since the stem is very close. Actually I also have a dendrobium nobile which was happy and gave out a ton of flowers: unfortunately there was a very sudden 8 day heat wave here and I was abroad (from 21*C to 33*C daytime). When I returned home the dendrobium was dehydrated and its leaves were yellow and fell, the baby new stem died but the taller new stem survived. Carefully watering it and hope it’ll pick up. Just checking with you to see if I got things right. Hope so. Love your videos. Thanks. Best wishes, Have a good day, Kate

[@rickl.orchids]

….keep up the great work Kate.....the store plants are begging for calcium...….its the lack of calcium that's starts their root issues to begin with.

[@katebeedot6964]

Rick L. Orchids Thanks for your reply, I always treasure all your help. Know that usually orchid growers are usually against all rescue procedures but some home lovers want to super care for them..well, I’m a doctor and caring is also my profession. Translated: I want to rescue them and give up only when their end is close. Still learning a lot, backed up by scientific research as I’m used to doing and very happy to get sound information from your videos. I admit that your warm reassuring voice helps a lot 😂! Still the apical root rot is the most difficult to manage, it means cutting the whole root. Anyway my super duper phal has beautiful new root tips which are now diving down into the bark, comforting. This is the result of your advice with Calmag and Epsom salts (pinch) in every low dose fertigation. New problem is when you leave your house: now devising a watering method which will keep them moist without actually wetting them from the top... wondering if there’ll be a chance of success: keeping a low level of good water in an extra vase slipped underneath the phal’s usual container but not allowing direct contact with the water. If it sounds silly please tell me, my friend might not appear and I need a safety system. What I have really found out is that phals are very conservative: they hate being moved around or turned from habitual position and of course their roots must be transfixed. Thanks for everything, you’re wonderful and I certainly love your low pressure (meaning slow and thoughtful) guidance and help! Kate

[@katebeedot6964]

Rick L. Orchids oops.. forgot to ask you if the light tea infusion (tannic acid) could be a good idea to lower pH and help in the fertigation mixture. Btw the dendrobium is back to its normal growth pattern. THANKS AGAIN

[@daniellesorchidranch1591]

Very good information. I was using tap water for years, when I checked the TDS the first time it was in the 280-300 range and my PH is usually in the low to middle 8 range. Needless to say I've been using distilled water ever since. Just ordered an RO unit so I don't have to run to the store every time I water my orchids. I'm also looking forward to drinking the RO water myself!

[@rickl.orchids]

.......thats common #'s for tap water.....drink the R/O....but you probably wont like it as much as your tap.......lol.....usually true......but your orchids will love it..........it just makes it so much easier to mix nutrients and flush them.....peace of mind........wonderful news......will be better than bottled.......

[@poodlepup1]

that is what is happening to me with my tap water ratios....lol used lemon juice but does not move it much... bought some distilled water from the grocery store here in australia... it was a ph of 6 which is great but expensive... waiting for rain overnight and will feed again tomorrow...Rick....

[@chiquita74rc]

Hello Rick, I love your videos and learning so much about orchids. I am new to the orchid world . My question to you is , I heard in other videos to keep water away from orchid crown but I see you in this video that you submerge in water the entire orchid , the crown won’t rot? can you please clarify that for me? I am in S Florida. Thank you in advance.

[@ephinyus]

I still don't have any meters yet, but I do have some Ph strips that tell me my distilled water is always at 7ph. Maybe someday I will get a meter. We cut down an old dogwood tree today that was growing roots too close to our new septic system. It had some pretty cool looking branches that I had my husband save for me. There is one knot that I think an orchid will look great growing in! I just have to get the pieces cut down to size and learn how to treat the wood. I can't wait! 😄

[@rickl.orchids]

......just rinse off the wood, scrub lightly with a brush and tie the orchid on.....distilled should be neutral or close to it......

[@ephinyus]

Rick L Thanks! I'm thinking once I get the wood ready, a bag baby Cattleya will look great on it! 😁

[@patny8706]

Helpful video, Rick, thanks. I have one of those cheap PH meters, but I lost the instructions for it and am probably not storing it correctly. It's also probably not remotely accurate. If you have time, would love to see you do a video about PH adjustment and PH meters, comparing your cheaper one with the more expensive reliable one using a live side by side comparison. Also, tips for storing the instrument.

[@rickl.orchids]

....I sure will Pat.....I kept seeing others having issue's with them so i purchased 2 of them......stay tuned.

[@crystalclear7369]

I see a desert rose on the right, I have 4, is yours planted in only pea gravel & do you fertilize, if so with what? Thank you 😊 I hope you’re having a blessed Sunday

[@rickl.orchids]

......the gravel is just over the surface......its potting mix, well draining...I used Jacks 20-20-20 once a month

[@crystalclear7369]

@@rickl.orchids thank you so much for that information! One of mine that I’ve had for many years, I hand carried back on a plane from Florida because I couldn’t find any here. That first one which I love got some rot on it over the winter in the house several years ago. I was probably watering it too much before I learned to cut back during the winter. I was heartbroken but watched some KZbin videos on how to do surgery on it and save the plant and it worked thank goodness 😅 it is so important to learn a plant’s natural habitat and try to mimic that as much as possible as possible in order to have the healthiest plants and you say that over and over! I’ve so enjoyed trying to catch up on all of your videos since finding you not only for orchids but other plants as well, you are clearly a plant lover as am I 😀 I’ve learned of the health struggles you and Jan have been facing and my thoughts and prayers are with you both for healing 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻 I sure do appreciate you!

[@crystalclear7369]

@@rickl.orchids as per instructions as far as amount of product goes or 1/2 strength?

[@NC-wl1xm]

Great info thank you Rick. I am a new subscriber and totally new to Orchids. I notice you have a desert Rose behind your watering tub. Do you lift it every year to two years to expose more of the roots? Do you have a video how to restore a dehydrated pal with almost no roots? I was given a rescue Cattleya badly sunburned and stressed, most of the roots dead or rotted. How would you treat orchids in these conditions. what medium do you use for Catts? which meters do you use. I rather get one recommended by you. Thank you so much

[@ethelrizarri2614]

HI! RICKY THIS IS A GREAT VIDEO I LOVE IT I WILL DO. LIKE THIS MINE I HAVE ABOUT 50 DIFFERENT PHAEL THANKS A LOT

[@janefromtennessee]

You're amazing!

[@NYCOrchidQueen]

I need to get my pens out and test. great video ♥

[@rickl.orchids]

......if you check them....then you know, and the difference with good water is night and day

[@nrandel1]

You mentioned your orchids being outside. I put mine outside in the spring and bring them back in in the fall. If they flower I'll bring them inside so my wife and I can enjoy them. Is this rotation good for the plant?

[@chiquita74rc]

Rick, your phals are looking great! I see you submerge the the orchid leaves into water , I am a bit confused about that because I heard that water cannot be collected in the orchid crown. Can you please clarify that for me? I am new to the orchids world . I am in S Florida. Thanks in advance.

[@sanjayjha5383]

Hai, it's great information about orchid I love it thank you. one thing I have a question while watring the orchid plant you dipped fully in water I don't think it may cause fungal infections. Please clear can I dipp orchid plant in to water. Thanks

[@rickl.orchids]

......everyone should know their own garden and their collection.....i dont have any plants infected, so Im not worried about it....

[@ruthanderson9458]

While watching your great video tonight ... when you mentioned "too much light" , I thought of my T5 grow trays. How many hours a day should I use the lights? I've been using 24/7 for my intensive care orchids. Is that ok ... do you think it's helping or possibly hurting? I'm so new to this, I have so much to learn!

[@rickl.orchids]

all plants need rest........minimum of 8hrs......my timers are running 13 hrs on and 11 off.......it could stress sick ones even more.....watch the plants to be sure....T5 are great lights.........but intense, a 4' fixture with 4-6 bulbs can be as intense as a 300w HID light.........keep the light back 24" and watch for signs of to much light.....

[@plantsathome653]

I started to equip my orchids shelves with needed tools in growing orchids, A ph and humidity meter are definitely next on my to buy list, I hated these stuff before I just want to grow orchids but surprisingly I found learning to grow them interesting thanks to you for sharing so much useful info, please be patient with me as I am trying to learn one step at a time.I used to feed my orchids and houseplants with a baby Bio low nutrient fertilizer, now that my houseplant collection is growing I moved into a miracle grow all-purpose fertilizer and I have only used it ones as I am not comfortable using it without understanding it very well although I used half strength than recommended, the label reads UK fertilizer declaration NPK 24-8-16 and ROL fertilizer declaration NPK 24-3.5-13.3.please help me understand what is UK declaration and what is ROL declaration and what do you think of those nutrient ratios?thank you, Rick.

[@rickl.orchids]

UK fertilizer declaration NPK 24-8-16 and ROL fertilizer declaration NPK 24-3.5-13.3......countries are required by law to post what is contained in the fertilizer's......that is their declarations...they are very common NPK ratios used for general purpose houseplants.....fine to use......whats important to look at is the nitrogen source....urea, ammonical, or nitrate.....urea doesnt work well in cooler temps..ammonical about the same......for soil growing its ok......but feed 1/4 strength in cooler times...I would be cautious to use it on orchids........unless they are in warm temps.....I will be doing more on feeding .....

[@plantsathome653]

thank you, Rick, I might need to get a different fertilizer for my orchids as my nitrogen source in this one is ammoniacal nitrogen 3.5 and ureic nitrogen 20.5.this was helpful, I am taking notes.

[@wa5780]

Can you make a video showing all your airplants

[@rickl.orchids]

I need to do an update......sure..

[@wa5780]

Rick L thanks 👍🏼 Cannot wait!!! 😁

[@patriciafaught9409]

Rick , what about well water...I live in the country and have my own well...do I need to have it tested to see what nutrients are in it? Also calcium and magnesium....I don't understand yet what ppm is but I'm working on it...Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and your family...Pat

[@rickl.orchids]

Pat, sorry slow response......you can get it tested, yes....great idea to find out what you have and more importantly, if its usable...ppm is - Parts Per million - TDS meters measure in PPM readings........tells you how strong a solution is......Merry Christmas..

[@Faith_Chi]

I'm off to buy a water tester. I know that our water is hard but the tap water seems to work well for most of my plants including the two orchids. I am new to all this, lol. The tap-water is usually left in the bottle or watering can and is therefore at room temperature. I don't know if that reduces the hardness of the tap water?

[@rickl.orchids]

wont change ph....but will allow chlorine and other stuff to dissipate a little....if you have water that works, thats excellent.....most cant use tap.

[@stella11979]

Great video and thank you very much for the quality pH meter recommendation! Already tried one of the cheap ones for aquarium use and that sucker was returned within a week. I really love your mounts Rick. During the hottest and dryest times of year, do they require soaking more than once daily?

[@rickl.orchids]

Stella,....Ive used a lot of PH & TDS meters those have performed best and lasted longer than any others for me....no they get water maybe 2-3x week.........and thats only cause ....I can... water them alot......

[@stella11979]

Rick L. Orchids Thanks again Rick. I know what you mean.... I can water a lot too. 😀

[@kayscaramellino2103]

Do you store some rainwater in your grow room to bring the temperature up?

[@rickl.orchids]

great question Kay........I have a rain barrel in my shop......the shop is heated...but I still will warm the water sometimes......

[@himateesookhai5302]

Hey Rick, do you use any root stimulant whenever you repot your orchids?

[@rickl.orchids]

no.......just Calcium and magnesium to get them started....occasionally some kelp

[@himateesookhai5302]

Rick L. Orchids thanks much you are a gem for us newbe s , I live in Atlanta and I have lots of rain water but I never check the p-h thanks,have a great.

[@thatplantguy93]

what was the variety of phal that sent out the keiki? i've never seen subdividing like that in phals before.

[@rickl.orchids]

PDUBS.....just a no name.......I dont see it either, .....wondering if its N releated

[@lkasdlf]

How often do you water your mounts? How do you know they need water? Same with pots how often do you water a question how do you know when you need to water?

[@rickl.orchids]

.....a great question.......learn to watch the roots........a root full of water is more rounded, usually shiny surface, plump........as it looses water or moisture it flattens out, gets a dull look ......more like a shoe lace........after roots get flattened out.....moisture is drawn from the leaves etc.......you dont want that to happen.....it can damage cell structure.....sometime permanently....so watch the roots......before they get flat.....let them soak.......after you do this a few times......it becomes easy to notice...........im always looking at roots.... ........my mounts can use water everyday......but......if they get a good soak.......not a spray or water poured over them......a good soak, .....they can go week or more with out water....

[@lkasdlf]

Thank you soooo much! You don't know how much that helps! Would the same be true with potted plants in leca or lava rock? Would soaking them allow a few days or more without water? How do you judge the roots if it is potted? From the top? Sending prayers

[@janadarnold2500]

I live in Colorado. During the winter, can I use melted snow?

[@rickl.orchids]

absolutely...........still check it for ppm totals.........

[@cincin5112]

Hi if you can Can you talk about cutting Phal spikes ..if you should or not ...thank you .

[@rickl.orchids]

.......Cin Cin, if the spike is dying back....you can cut it.....but let the spike die back on its own....once its totally dead, then cut it off.....Phals will recycle P & K from their spikes, and its important for new blooms as well as root growth that they get it back, or get enough from their feed....if they get enough nutrition, I dont truly believe they will die back spikes. I'm feeding to prevent that......and I'm getting old spikes re-blooming as well as new spikes starting at the same time....

[@georgevega962]

Hi Rick. Hope you're doing well. Once you're done soaking fo the week, do you reuse the fertilized water left in the bin or do you discard it?

[@rickl.orchids]

I another great question.........I check it with the meter.......it usually gets stronger ......maybe an additional 25-30ppm.......the clay pots will soak up water......all I do is add some additional water and its good to use still.........unless I see a lot of debris, or the ppm changing a lot......I reuse it

[@georgevega962]

Thanks Rick for responding. I think now I have an upper hand in orchid care thanks to you.

[@lbagus4074]

Hey rick... Do you put your phals outdoor? How when rainy day? Do their crown dont rot? I grew phals this year in summer, i put them outdoor. now its almost rainy season here in Indonesia and i little bit worried.

[@rickl.orchids]

great question.......I do grow mine outside in warm weather........they coma inside when its below 60*......crown rot in phals is caused by calcium deficiency.........as long as they have enough calcium......they can get rained on all day long......no crown rot

[@lbagus4074]

@@rickl.orchids you put the phals mounted or in pot with media? Thank you for your explanation 🙏🙏🙏

[@rickl.orchids]

some of mine are mounted....and some are in pots with lava rock, pea gravel, and river rock as well.....I have none in bark...

[@lbagus4074]

@@rickl.orchids thank you Rick 🙏🙏🙏

[@himateesookhai5302]

Hey Rick,I am sorry to bother you with all the questions , but I love the pots you have ,where did you got them and what are they call,thank you. How many inches are they.

[@rickl.orchids]

never a bother......I use standard clay pots for most, I use what they call a Azalea pot, which has slots in the lower part, the one that are glazed, in various colors, and have small holes, all over them, are from Lowes, Home Depot, very cheap.......

[@susanmoisey2368]

I got an RO system for under $90 Canadian from Amazon, and set it up by the washing machine. It takes about half an hour to fill a gallon jug.

[@rickl.orchids]

thank you Susan......wonderful information for everyone.....

[@himateesookhai5302]

Rick how do you make the hook for the the small pots?

[@rickl.orchids]

.......16ga wire and bend it around the pot......the loop is just smaller than the top of the pot.....

[@jachu1433]

Hi Rick. I have been listening to a lot of videos and almost everyone say not to wet the leaves. But you seem to soak some of the orchids even and youre not even worried about crown rot. Please explain. Thanks.

[@rickl.orchids]

..a great question.....in nature on a tree, an orchid gets rained on all the time, the constant air flow around them keeps them from getting crown rot. In my grow room I keep air moving all the time... ...a healthy orchid in a environment with good air flow can take lots of humidity or rain fall with no issues...

[@jachu1433]

Rick L thanks for your reply. Now I remember why my mom who lives in Asia and had her orchids on drift woods and pots but she sprays water over them all the time and she never ever had complained root or crown rots. I am now using rain water which I have stored in jars.

[@rickl.orchids]

wonderful memory of your mother, i bet she has a wonderful collection..... with rainwater your orchids will love you......it eliminates so much of the issues most people have ..........thanks for watching and for the shared memories........

[@likowahine5825]

Orchids, watering, water quality chat Nov. 28, 2017. I guess I'm fortunate to be using rain water most of the time. I haven't had problems using water from my tap. When your orchids are in spike, it's a good idea to still feed them with a week fertilizer?

[@rickl.orchids]

yes.....even more so.....spikes dying back is a sign of calcium deficiency....

[@lindalmiller429]

Would melted snow work?

[@rickl.orchids]

yes...…...but still check your ppm of it...

[@lindalmiller429]

Thank you!

[@fishyplantman4982]

@@lindalmiller429 I hope you worm it up some I use 80f, it dont need to be that worm but personally I wouldn't use anything under 60f not for phalaenopsis.

[@janefromtennessee]

What are those brands? Best fertilizer?

[@rickl.orchids]

Jane the 0-10-10 is General Hydroponic "Kool Bloom"...the other is Jungle Juice "Micro"...5-0-1....these are hydroponic nutrients.....not normally used for orchids.....if you have knowledge and experience with them, then no worries....if not i dont recommend using them.....just use caution, and always use good accurate meters

[@janefromtennessee]

Rick L thank you

[@ethelrizarri2614]

I DON”T. HAVE RAIN WATER CAN I USE DISTILLED WATER ORN SPRING WATER???

[@rickl.orchids]

yes

[@vantranpham]

Where to buy pebbles ?

[@rickl.orchids]

at the garden center they sell pea gravel, Lava rock, and river rock for landscape...usually in the mulch section.......or you can collect them from any stream or lake...

[@mrzredbadger7848]

You are wrecking me I still need lots of classes...mine are growing ( slowly) but not near as nice as yours... something is wrong perhaps humidity or I am to controlling on the amount of fertilizers ( what & when)...UGH...I need to keep notes...problem one solved...notes and response.... I use RO and rain water...and ph is good and ppms...such is life... the water I use to give to other plants...I cant just pour it down a drain...Oh and cheap meters forget that...you cant calibrate...glad I am not alone of that

[@rickl.orchids]

.....your doing fine.....sit back and look at the big picture......light....water.....feed......air..... ..Air .....is essential to keep bad things from starting, like molds, fungus, etc...... ...feed, .....tiny amounts all the time...and flush out the salts occasionally... ......water, .......use good quality water.....low ppm & a neutral ph...or close .......light.......most often overlooked element of indoor growing.......all the nutrients, air, and water ........wont make up for low light..... meters.......I need to do a show on those cheap ones...