Order of Ecclesia Large Cavern Randomizer

Twitch - / jupiterclimb
Twitter - / jupiterclimb

[@JupiterClimb]

By using Volaticus in the Large Cavern, I cheated not only the game, but myself. I didn't grow. I didn't improve. I took a shortcut and gained nothing. I experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that I don't know the difference.

[@alamuv9620]

So poetic

[@ryozaki96]

As a punishment you should do an Ecclesia WR speedrun

[@alucardsantradideus267]

But hey, at least we all had fun! ..... Now do a lvl 1 Large cavern Randomizer, you know, for fun! Edit: 13:18 So, maybe forget I said anything.

[@lethallisa7128]

Lovely Space Quest reference u got there

[@Ironsharp]

I’m glad more light got shed on the Ordinary Rock thing. The error probably comes from dictionary misuse because the Japanese game uses hiragana (alphabet that has no inherent meaning) for the "flight" word rather than kanji (Chinese characters that contain meaning). A word for “flight,” “hishou,” (ひしょう/飛翔) exists, which has the same spelling in hiragana as a word for “trifling/trivial,” also pronounced “hishou” (ひしょう/卑小). The hiragana word Hishou is used for the item in question, with no Chinese characters to contain meaning (full item name is ひしょうの石/Stone of Hishou...but which Hishou?) Since the Hishou part in-game uses the alphabet and not Chinese characters, it’s up to context to decide the translation. It seems like an odd mistake to make unless the translator was in a huge rush, never got to play the game, or didn’t have access to the information that the rock gives you double jump, which makes it an obvious translation to Flight. I am professional translator, and I can understand the slip-up, but it should have been caught before the game was launched, especially for a game released in 2008. On the flipside, I've worked with some companies who still treat translation as an afterthought in the past year or so.

[@uandresbrito5685]

Wow, great breakdown. Weird for them to use hiragana. This also happens with Pokemon I think

[@gagejoseph91]

Makes plenty of sense and I believe it, but it is also funny to think that it's a joke - getting the miraculous, incredible ability to jump in the air from a featureless, non-magical, plain rock.

[@theoneitself]

@@gagejoseph91 yeah, like the typical cheesy phrase "the power doesnt come from a magical item, IT WAS INSIDE OF YOU ALL ALONG !! " LOL

[@hugojmaia]

Maxing out attribute points in OOE is how I managed to beat the "New Game Hard Mode Level 1 cap" challenge twice. It's a brutal challenge, starting a fresh save file, on hard mode, with the level cap of 1, you're dead in 2 hits 99% of the game and Ruvas forest becomes the biggest wall possible. I also don't think it's something doable in a single sitting.

[@winteriscoming88]

I tried Hard lvl1 cap on a fresh file. Ruvas give me such rage.

[@Simply_resharkable]

I mean, once you're at the tower at least there's no point to not wearing the death ring

[@drewlith]

I think it might be called "Ordinary Rock" because in SotN it's "Leap Stone" so it's sort of a joke like maybe Alucard sees it as a precious relic, but Shanoa just sees it as an Ordinary Rock.

[@alucardsantradideus267]

Can't believe you lost faith in the knives, they're cutting edge technology for speedruns!

[@SuperZez]

Hey, what difficulty are you playing on? You seem to be able to take a looooooot of hits from those enemies you're back dashing through.

[@Exorion]

45:37 If you go frame-by-frame you can see the textbox for the chest item being present but not showing the name yet and then getting overwritten by the 10G on the next frame. Makes you wonder why the text is not displayed instantly but oh well.

[@keropearhart]

Shanoa trying to be the queen of darts I see

[@winteriscoming88]

Maxing out all the attributes was certainly a grind even with two Master Rings. They max out at 65,535 I believe. Took me like 10 NG+s. But boy do glyphs hit like a truck. Maxing out the familiars took forever too.

[@TheTolnoc]

Routing in the menuing for the Colored Drops you pick up over time might be marginal, but it's a marginal increase in a speedrun.

[@andysnider6984]

Dawn/Aria of Sorrow Knives only, or Knight Shanoa, meaning using a sword and shield glyph only.

[@destructorthedestroyer7651]

I had to say this because it was really funny but for the Blackmore fight you equipped Vol Culter instead of Melio Culter so I think the damage would have been significantly higher. I just wanted to point that out because I don't think the Death Ring + Dominus Agony combo with Melio Culter is TOO BAD. But I just wanted to point that out lol. Also, for the giant cavern why didn't you use the Vol Macir you picked up with the Death Ring + Dominus Agony with the glyph union. It would have instantly killed those Double Hammers and Weapons Masters LOL.

[@Exorion]

Also have to do this seperately but if you ever wanna get deeper into Judgement (46:24) I can provide you with many notes and stuff. ...yes I played it competitively and do not regret it.

[@uandresbrito5685]

Do you have it documented? I'd like to know about the meta and such.

[@Exorion]

@@uandresbrito5685 Thanks YT for not showing new comments, always fun. So I can't give you a Summoning Salt rundown on Judgement as I was not doing international play on such a niche game during it's release. However I did play some online matches way back in the day and, more importantly, our scene got a small group of people together that did play Judgement competitively for about a year and a half. That was a couple years ago. Biggest note section contains attacks, attributes and, especially, combo-routes for characters as there was basically nothing for that on the internet. Also notes on items and character options. More was planned (stages, revisioned rulesets etc.) but with C19 our scene disappeared after all. All that is to say that you should take my experience and notes with a grain of salt because, in the end, Judgement is pretty much unexplored and had no real big competitive scene to begin with (I doubt there ever was anything bigger than the little gig of 16 to 32 competitior events we had). But if you're still interested in basically anything you can feel free to shoot me some further questions down the line. Oh also before we even start I just wanna squash a little stigma. If you ever heard someone say that the game has broken infinites and whatnot in spades and is a buggy mess they are outright lying and/or never have touched the game for more than 5 minutes max. The only real "infinites" or 0 to deaths are either not archievable in a real match (because of resources) or require too specific a set-up that is so unlikely to a) happen and b) be capitalized by the player in advantage state. Just some small notes regarding "meta": - Most characters are "viable". That word has basically lost it's meaning over the years but in short I mean that you could reansonably win with *most* characters and no one would be prompted to do a "is THIS a secret sleeper top tier?!?!" video in response. The only two characters which are basically "bottom tier" are Maria and Camilla (if you wanna know more about characters you can also ask about that). Dracula is the most interesting (and one of the strongest) character since he breaks many rules of the game, probably making him the most polarizing match-up for most of the cast. - Itens are a big part as those basically replace your special meter normally present in most other fighting games. Which item a character get's access to can play a big part in their viability and also can be essential for specific match-ups. While most items are decent to good the best one is, undoubtedly, Holy Water (with Cross and Stone being decent runner-ups). Stopwatch doesn't get taken into account for the most part since it is up to RNG if you even get access to it during a match. - Outzoning isn't really present for most match-ups so you often have to deal at close range. This makes it so that you really want safe pressure, the more the better. Another reason why items are so crucial since the game has a strict priority system (which is also relevant for cancels). Basically you can cancel some moves only! into items to generate safe (block)pressure. Since you only start with 10 hearts and get no more outside of RNG loot from destroyable (but respawning) stage objects you have to make every item count (as most can be used 3 to 5 times on average). Items are just that important: they can grant you safe pressure, (counter)zoning, (extended) combos, big(ger) damage or even be used to fight against a character's unique gimmicks. So yeah that's a very basic rundown. Once again if you have any more questions feel free to ask. You can also do that on Jupiter's Discord if that is preferred.

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@Exorion Thank you, even as "basic" as you described this to be, it's by far the most in-depth I ever heard about the game. I had some idea of how it was supposed to be played through some reviews, but it's not that much as, well, I never actually played it. I just have a very notable interest in those shady fighting games, specially the ones generally most dismissed for being broken or flat out bad. I can't really ask anything substantial as I'm not really a player, have only seen gameplay and scavenged for info every now and then on the web. If I were to ask and you feel like going a little over it, I'd like to know about Death. It's my favorite character and it always felt weird in motion(although it may be just visually flashy and plays like a regular character, unlike Dracula, as you mentioned, the only other character that got my attention by gameplay... And Golem. But he's predictable). Idk if it's offensive for a non player to be talking about this game to you and I'm sorry if you feel like you're wasting this information, but please be sure this was a very good read and I'm very thankful for your time in advance.

[@Exorion]

​@@uandresbrito5685 I have no problem answering questions and/or explaining things about Judgement to you, no worries. Asking questions as a spectator is totally fine. Death is a character of extremes, sitting at around B+ to A tier (depending who you'ld have asked in our group hah). First of all he also is a regular fighter for the most part. In general most characters share the same DNA but can have some differences in small areas (Golem has Armor, Cornell has a Install Super, Golem and Shanoa can do extended dashes, Grant has an aerial roll etc.). Death's only real difference is something he semi-shares with Maria: having the option for a glide. Whilst Maria's glide outright sucks his is pretty good, giving him greater mobility. But his glide costs Hyper Meter (the equivalent to Super Moves in other fighting games). So no, outside of Dracula (who breaks basic mechanics and rules of the game) every other fighter adheres to the established mechanics of the game for the most part. Outside of that little tidbit Death basically has two playstyles, even tho one of those is really niche. The niche one is trying to be played as a zoner. He can throw small sickles and his big scythe. Combined with a charged dark sphere that stuns on hit you have some ranged options that cost no resource (outside of charge). Whilst you can make those work in like two match-ups it remains a novelty at most since the sickles have only meh range and are laggy, the dark sphere can be blocked easily and even if he goes for zoning he can't really cash out on it that effectively. His preferred (and way more effective) playstyle is that of a so-called Vortex Character. The reason being that whilst he has some decent moves he can't capitalize on big damage since he has no real Hyper Combos outside of landing the not so good dark sphere, can't open up block since many moves are unsafe (his break attack, which goes through block, is one of the worst) and he has some trouble getting himself out of pressure since his dash, whilst having many i-frames, is really slow. So instead of trying to salvage his weaknesses and round him out you go all-in on the one thing he can do great: getting a guessing game / loop going over and over again. His gameplan basically goes like this: you get any hit and combo that into a hard launch. Instead of juggling you use your big scythe spin attack (here is a video in which it get's used, timestamped: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqPXp5Ssq5iimpo ). If done fast enough the scythe comes out at the right time for the following scenario: if your opponents fails to successfully unroll after the juggle he will lay on the ground, get hit very often by your scythe, you cancel it early enough to circumvent the regular big endlag and re-cast your scythe again. If they tech instead you can move your scythe preemptively somewhere else to catch your opponent to get a hit in, go for the final hit of your scythe spin attack (which re-launches your opponenent) and go back to step one. Or your opponent escapes the inital hit after they tech but are now forced to block your scythe. This attack shreds block and Death can either let the attack run out or go into the relauncher (or cancel into an item), making it a 50/50 (also having to take into account how damaged your block already is since a blockbreak leads into the next hits of the scythe and/or the relaunch). Sometimes when you get that vortex going the scythe can end up getting wonky with it's own tracking capabilities and juggle your enemy in the air, giving you even more damage whilst allowing to set up your vortex again. I know that was much text (even tho I skipped many more possible interactions) for a single move but I just want to make it crystal clear that every Death player lives and dies by how well they can get their vortex going and winning some "50/50s" down the line. Since items do nothing for your general damage you basically use them to correct poorly spaced attacks, establish more pressure in general or take Stonewall since that also does huge block damage, giving you more opportunities to set up shop once you get a guardbreak (breaks also drain 95% of the enemy's Hyper Gauge which can deny some character-specific defensive options for a short time). If you can't vortex well as Death you will have a hard time against many character since he has rather weak CQC and poor defense. But if he get's his game going he can get pretty oppressive. There is way more to him as well as most other characters but since this reply already is quite lengthy I'm gonna do Golem after I went to sleep. Feel free to respond to this comment in general, asking questions etc. Best regards

[@BoltTheEmolga]

i w a s t h e r e

[@supersonicfan325]

Ooh, I'm early, can I get your opinion. How good is aria of sorrow to dawn?

[@Megaman-2407]

seem like aria is the beta for dawn

[@uandresbrito5685]

Dawn is Aria, but more, except it's way less polished in return. Aria is slightly better if you're playint vanilla imo

[@theoriginal3362]

Aria is way better because you don't have to grind souls like a minimum wage worker to get really good stuff

[@ryozaki96]

You could have picked Globus for Volaticus combo but your ego didn't let you

[@princesharming8693]

2d castlevania games are Still my favorite

[@hewhoshallnotbenamed8228]

Imagine that in order to defeat Dracula, his own power is his bane. Funny isn't it?

[@Neo-qf7jn]

1:02:24 Nice april fools rando idea

[@scharlachnachtfalter1900]

'jiang' is pronounced somewhat like john (but with hard G instead of J). Strange, I recall he was able to summon tons of small Jiang Shi with super high HP.

[@sleeplessnarcolept6541]

They are able to, but in order to summon them the Jiang Shi uses a glyph you can steal. From what I remember they too can summon the electric balls that home in on you. Shame the fight gets trivialized by the shield glyph

[@Dexaan]

Suspend tier list!

[@Man_Person_Best_Hero]

38:35 that was a weird slide

[@OverseerMoti]

Just let it slide, would you 😅

[@zerwardzelaiine7622]

I'm curious, do you need a DS to play the rando/fan games? I would love to play them, but just afraid of needing a DS :p

[@BoltTheEmolga]

Jupiter doesn't even own a DS capture board. He only can record through emulators. So that should give you your answer.

[@zerwardzelaiine7622]

@@BoltTheEmolga ty!

[@MsDirectorAngela]

You can play it on official hardware too with the use of modding and or rom cartridges. Personally, I think it gives for a better challenge as save states and such are unusable on ds/3ds hardware (to my knowledge at least).

[@Tabuu_]

Yeah Jiangshi is insanely easy once you figure out you can block AND destroy the energy balls with a shield. TBH if they wanted that fight to be much harder they should have made the attack invulnerable.

[@JupiterClimb]

Yeah, fair to say Ecclesia shields are a little overpowered lol

[@okumabear]

1:10:00 I'm....I'm not mad....I'm just disappointed.

[@alucardsantradideus267]

Hi Disappointed, I'm Dad