Lesson 11: Compound sentences, kureru, ageru, more te-form uses

[@ローラ-q2y]

LESSON 11- くれる、あげる || other て form uses 00:01- introduction ------------------------------- ■■■■■■■■■ 1° sentence ~ある日 アリスは 川の そばに いた。 ●00:47- reading the passage 00:55- the words 川、そば 01:19- ある as an adjective ----------------------------- ■■■■■■■■■ 02:21- 2° sentence ~[おねえちゃんは] [つまらない 本を] [よんで いて] [あそんで くれなかった] ●02:38- reading the passage ---------------- (1/2) 02:49- お • ねえ •ちゃん 03:10- つまらない本 ----------------- ■■■■■■■■■■ 2° sentence (2/2) || 03:17- よむ ----> よんで-----> よんでいる----> よんでいて|| || 03:31- why did we put it in the て form? || ---------------- || ●04:23- あそぶ-----> あそんで || || 04:39- (+くれる) || || 06:09- くれる x あげる || . 06:41- あそんで くれなかった ---------------------------------- ●07:02- analysis of the whole sentence 07:39- the last verb determines the tense of the sentence --------------------------------- 08:32- finishing If it got kinda confusing and anyone has any suggestions I'm open to it and correct me if there are any mistakes:)

[@derkatzenfuerst6077]

"actually I'm not quite fully functioning" So sad to watch this in October 2021. Fly safe Cure Dolly, wherever you are now!

[@moonlitee]

I teared up a bit when she said that... thank you for everything, Cure Dolly 先生.

[@kimberrwolf]

Watching this for the first time now and knowing she’s gone, that moment also made me go “oh man”

[@Arc_Soma2639]

I know you probably cannot read this but if one of your dear loved ones is, I want to let them know, you cause so much benefit to this world, you will always be remembered, I loved you as a teacher, as the best Japanese teacher someone could ever have.

[@かえる77]

As Alice ventures deeper and deeper into wonderland, so too do the unsuspecting students into grammar land.

[@kiravati]

I’m falling down the rabbit hole, it’s fub

[@lyingcat9022]

Darn it :( I got sad again when she said she wasn’t fully functional. I’ve been learning for less than a year and she has been my biggest influence. I miss her like a friend.

[@pubglingo]

Yeah bro

[@mysticwysteria0]

I saw this video as soon as you uploaded and I decided to go back and watch a lot of your older videos first. I finally came back to this one and watched it, I absolutely love the style! I cannot wait for the next lesson, teaching grammar directly as it is used in real text is so helpful and engaging for me. You're one of the best Japanese teachers I've ever found♥

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much - and welcome to our kyoushitsu (classroom)! I'm glad you saw some older ones first, as this one could be a little puzzling unless you know a little "train-language". I am so glad you like the narrative method. This video was a bit of an experiment but I'm encouraged by the response, so while I may make a few adjustments I will definitely be doing more along these lines. Anyway, can't stop here or people will never know what happened to Aliceʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

[@runawaygareth]

Unreal how helpful Cure Dolly Sensei was. RIP

[@josephbradley1781]

So, I felt the need to tell you how much I am enjoying these lessons. I have taken two years of Japanese in college and several different types of classes and after watching your first 11 videos I understand more now then at any time. You speak the way I learn, logically. I feel you are teaching linguistics of Japanese and I totally get it now. I am very grateful for your style of teaching. I am also grateful for your stressing that we are here to learn to communicate, not to study. It makes my work more important.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I am so glad the lessons are helping you. Learning Japanese from conventional "Japanese grammar" is hard for logical minds isn't it!

[@duytran-fl7wt]

I really love this approach. After reading the unlocking book, this video shows me how to put all that theory into practice. Thank you sensei.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you! I'm really happy that people are finding this to work the way it should.

[@ynot344]

I really like this approach. Thank you.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank _you_

[@srajanverma9064]

I had to say that you are a REAL ANGEL because you come everytime I need you the most! 5 months ago, I wanted to learn grammar in a logical and organised manner(because I knew it had logic but hidden), when I accidently stumbled upon your adjectives video!(the best accident of my life!) Now, after 9-10 lessons, I felt the need to immerse a little and learn grammar through stories, but none of the stories were in that manner to help me conquer new concepts and master the one I know from you.. Again, I needed you and was suprised to have lesson 11-12 in the exact way I wanted! And also about the long vowels patreon post!! Truly an angel!!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much for your kind appreciation. I'm so happy to be able to help you and will continue to try hard to do so.

[@nicolascastaneda8465]

Great video. I really like this idea of recapping previous lessons with a phrase to be examined. I would love to see more of this content; extracts of actual books, articles, of even phrases from shows too. I think having a lesson and getting an example from the wild it's the best way to fixed right from the start. I would love if you could do something like "Japanese the Manga Way" in terms of breaking down actual content and going trough an specific grammar concept. Not for every lesson, but in a review manner after they accumulate (within the realm of what copyrights permits). I actually don't think you're going too fast, I'm always eager for the next lesson. :-)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Good idea. I'm thinking all around this idea at the moment. It definitely seems to be a good way of consolidating all and and introducing some material, though I may need to refine the method somewhat.

[@plankcaller]

"actually i'm not quite fully functioning" :( rip sensei.

[@alfred1925]

Watched 11 videos in two days, a couple of them twice. I'm half way through N4, almost, so more advanced, but I've learned quite a bit.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much for watching. I think many of the people who watch these videos are not beginners. Although they are intended to be accessible to beginners their main purpose is to explain Japanese from the ground up in logical terms - so that one can get a clearer view of what is really happening in the language than the standard textbooks give.

[@silviasacchetti3015]

Love your way of breaking down the logical structure of sentences. I used to use a similar approach when I was studying Latin a long time ago and it never failed me!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

A useful thing if you know Latin is that the logical particles correspond quite closely to Latin cases, so if you know what the cases do it is very easy to understand what が、を、に、の、で and へ do. The textbooks obfuscate this by pretending that things mean literally what they would be if an English speaker said something similar in English (ケーキが好きだ = "I like cake" etc) but with real structure you can see the particle-case parallel very easily. The main difference is that particles are much simpler - you just pop one unchanging character at the end of the noun. Interestingly there is even a vocative case particle in Japanese (it is よ - not the sentence-ender, though related). You don't see it a lot in daily speech as it is rather literary, but you will definitely hear it from bombastic/archaic characters if you are doing a fair bit of immersion.

[@ninasekiguchi358]

I absolutely love your videos! I find them extremely helpful in breaking down Japanese sentences. I am currently living in Japan taking Japanese courses, unfortunately the instructors do not speak English and are unable to describe grammar the way you do. I supplement my course work with your videos and it has made a HUGE difference. I really love the doll and her calming soothing accent :) I bought the book on Amazon and will find time to read it on my commute to school!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I am so glad the videos are helping you. And thank you for taking the time to tell me! Specially nice to hear kind words about my accent - I sometimes get the other kind*:ﾟ*｡(*´◡`) Good luck and 頑張ってください。

[@MJBold_1]

Really like this type of lessons after having gone through some basics! It's certainly scary but being able to decipher actual real world sentences seems very satisfying!

[@lynellewhite3630]

I love the story approach! I’m particularly fond of the Alice stories too, so that was lovely

[@lkoll1]

What wonderful teacher....Thank you...

[@ramonafotiade5695]

ありがとうございます。Please continue with the story-based approach. It's really helpful to see the way sentences link together and how verbs are used to express certain complex situations. I loved your explanation around the uses of kureru and ageru - more of this typically Japanese ways of expressing things would be great.

[@xHoneybreath]

Love this approach and finally あげる/くれる clicked for me. It's so much easier to think of it in terms of "giving up(wards)" and "giving down"! I can't believe I've never seen this pointed out somewhere else. I do think that this explanation might be more helpful to learners who have already learned about or heard of くれる and あげる. If this was the first time I heard of the two I might have been confused. I also second the suggestion of another user that it would be nice to use examples from other media, like excerpts from manga or clips from TV shows or anime at some point. I don't know how much you can work with under current copyright laws, but there's another youtube channel that takes short clips from anime and analyzes the sentences of the scene. I'm not sure if this is fair use or just a case of the original copyright holders simply not caring enough to have it taken down, though.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you for your kind appreciation. Really "give down" and "give up" is what they literally mean. Another thing that makes them confusing is that usually they are taught along with もらう as a threesome. This makes a kind of sense because they are closely related concepts - but my thinking is that because this whole concept-set is unlike anything we find in English and most other languages, it is better to learn the two symmetrical ones first and become comfortable with them before trying to juggle the third ball. I have a feeling that that third ball at an early stage is the spoiler for a lot of learners. I think a lot of my viewers aren't absolute beginners - the idea of "starting from scratch" is also about re-envisioning Japanese more logically. However I want to get more feedback on how beginners (who have followed the first ten lessons) manage with this style of lesson. That particular point might have needed more examples - I'm not sure. I've had a couple of people saying they think they would have been confused if they were beginners but so far no beginners saying they _were_ confused. So I'm keeping an open mind at present. Also thinking about strategies for making "marginal" points (those that are in between being easily-explainable and needing a full structure video) clearer. I have a few longer-term aims concerned with making audio for passive listening to consolidate what we are doing. At that point I may introduce a higher volume of vocabulary too - but I will also need a native Japanese person to do the narrating. It's all a bit early-conceptualizing stage at present. Using copyright material is tricky. I'm afraid I'm inclined to avoid it. I am pretty cautious about using public domain material or my own work in graphics and everything else. Since I think I'm in this for the long haul it is probably best to stay squeaky clean. And well oiled of course, so I don't get squeaky in any other respects.

[@Y2K_Bugs]

I'm pretty sure Alice in Wonderland, at least the original story, is in the public domain. The Disney film isn't though.

[@darkhorse7148]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Yea I am a beginner, I have no confusion at all. The only other instruction I had bfr was a Michel Thomas course which was horrible in hindsight cause they started with masu right off the bat and made me memorize factoids most of them which I forgot anyways. Your videos are really awesome, I also bought your book and gave it a reading. One thing though, do I need to invest in Jay Rubin Sensei's work for a better exposition of wa vs ga or do the later vids in the course cover it?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

​@@darkhorse7148 Michel Thomas really deals in isolated gobbets of information that don't tie into any kind of a structure, which from my point of view is a bad way of teaching. There is no need to look at Dr. Rubin's work. I have ended up taking it much further than he did. He doesn't even identify wa as a non-logical particle. If you want to go deeper into the whole subject, I have a two-parter here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ-7eaOhibmZfdU . It is more advanced, but it may also satisfy your curiosity

[@lessonteacher2000]

I watched right through to this video and then this one made me really need to go back and review previous videos.... It really glued together what all the other videos were about and so far it has been the best video series I have ever seen which actually explains the structure of the language! Until now, all the content I have consumed has explained none of this and rather given English translations for phrases that just become more complex as you progress without any clear explanation of what is even happening. Its funny because the first video I saw had some (amusing) comment about how it was scary lol, but the content of the series is just so amazing and extremely mature in its concept and approach which I appreciate. ありがうございます！

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much! I am so glad that you are finding the series helpful. It is really quite surprising how little attempt is made to teach the actual structure of the language as opposed to throwing a handful of Japanese and a handful of English at the student and hoping for the best. I do hope I don't really scare anyone (I don't think I do). It is one of the ironies of life that currently the only teacher of organic Japanese is herself inorganic - but that's how it goes.

[@Maldito011316]

This sounds awesome! I can't wait for more "read-throughs" :D

[@jacobmosen4152]

Hi キュアドリー I found your videos about a month ago and have been watching them all from the start. I’ve been studying Japanese about 2 years now, just using genki textbooks and various apps for new vocab and kanji. I have to say your approach to teaching the basics of the language is really effective, and clears up so much confusion and doubt. I especially enjoyed this video. Using stories to teach by stopping at each new point to learn how it works is a really enjoyable way to learn new content. I hope you’ve used it in your other videos I haven’t seen yet, if you haven’t continued using it, you definitely should. よろしく!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you for your kind appreciation! I have done some more Alice lessons and some of my later lessons also use narrative analysis.

[@axelkeuchel5728]

Really nice and helpful approach towards the not so easy topic of japanese sentence structure (from the perspective of the native speaker of a european language!). I like it a lot and would like to see more of this as well. Thanks a lot for all the effort you put in this channel!!!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you so much for your kind appreciation. There will definitely be more. The next video continued the Alice narrative-approach ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZW8hWmOm5Z1oaM ) and while this week's lesson returns to explanation of a pure structure element next week's will come back to it again.

[@geniusssmit2305]

I think I need to add this playlist to my Anki deck

[@barrydanser4334]

Yes stories are really good as an aid for learning

[@skippychurch2965]

Such a great channel. Sad it is gone

[@coffeeandtea5396]

the best explanation for me so far.thank you

[@alex_blue5802]

I have come to realize that くれる is not always literal. It can indicate an action that pleases us, even if the person did not undertake it specifically for our benefit.

[@lucianoromanlarrocca7023]

It's my first time learning japanese so I struggled a bit but overall it's slowly clicking by itself. Thank you! I struggled a bit with the first adjectives video so I felt like I shouldn't advance but you always citate previous videos and somehow it gets easier the more you mention them

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes - never hesitate to go back and review earlier videos. You can understand them better as you learn how they fit into the bigger pattern.

[@lucianoromanlarrocca7023]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 thank you a lot for your videos!! it's really motivating me a lot!! I almost burned out when I first started because I only did kanji srs without immersing or anything. (To the point that you could consider it not studying at all) and everything has changed for better. ^^

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@lucianoromanlarrocca7023 Wonderful! Let's keep going. 頑張りましょうね！

[@nyannyannyan4810]

I really like your approach to teaching, thank you!

[@danielgreen4747]

Your videos are very helpful, thank you.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

And thank you for taking the time to comment.

[@achevres]

Love this approach. Ties concepts together.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you!

[@yoshikuyuu]

Would the sentence 私は弟に遊んであげなかった mean "I did not play with my younger brother/I did not give the act of playing to my younger brother"?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes it would mean that but it isn't the most natural way of saying it. If you want to know how to say something (as opposed to understanding something) the method is not to use structure to cobble your own construction (unless you have heard things like it). It is this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3fHmZyHfZ2HiZo

[@birthdaycat6756]

I too like the story approach!

[@amazingabigail9596]

ドリー先生, a few questions: if you say 'a certain day' using 'aru', would you use 'iru' to say 'a certain person/animal'? Also, I read that using the te-form without anything after it can show an unfinished thought. Is that true, and if it is, can you give an example? Thank you! And thank you for responding to my previous question so quickly and in such detail, it was very helpful :)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

To say "a certain person" you would say ある人. We get told that いる is for people and animals and いる is for non non-breathing beings, and as a rough guide this is useful, but it isn't an absolute. For example we always use いる for objects in continuous constructions (but ある when we are stressing their current state as the object of someone's action), as I explained in this lesson kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYrVonmghduqias The て-form often acts as a clause-connector for compound sentences as explained in this lesson. So using it in such a way as to imply a second clause that is not made explicit is a common practice in informal speech. For example お天気が悪くて is literally "the weather is bad and (so)...." which depending on context might mean "the weather is bad and so I'm not going out". More on unfinished, "suggestive" sentences in this lesson: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6aYe4KqmNx4baM

[@sidj1409]

Great video. I was hoping you could clarify the reason 遊ぶ is in the te form as 遊んで in the sentence as I didn't quite understand that. Thank you!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It is the regular て-form of any ぶ-ending verb. Please see the video on て-form: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fauoh3-DeahrpNk

[@sidj1409]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I mean is the purpose of it to link it with the くれなかった, or some other reason. Thanks.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@sidj1409 Yes. Whenever we use くれる or あげる of an action (verb) as opposed to an object (noun) it must be attached to the verb via the て-form.

[@sidj1409]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Ah got it. Thanks!

[@Nic0Flores]

nice approach! thank you

[@quintrankid8045]

I think this is advanced for me but I still learned something and I enjoy this approach. I think I tend to learn more from context and this helps with that. But maybe it goes by a little bit too fast? I hope that you will continue this experiment, as you said elsewhere, calmly.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

While of course I hope everyone will enjoy it, this really is the eleventh lesson so it is assuming the other ten! The reaction that it is taking things a bit fast seems to be coming in, so I will have to see what I can do about that. Responses like yours are really useful because when I was making it I was thinking "Is this a bit fast?" "Am I getting through the narrative too slowly?" so it is important to know how it is actually working for people. Thank you. Ah! Talking of the full course, I forgot to add this new lesson to the playlist! Done it now. You'll find the entire course here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/poTZeWysfZtjf8k

[@Digiflower5]

Thanks as always for making these.

[@lynkkx]

so about connecting actions with the て form, must they always be right next together? verbて+verb or could I do something like verbて+adj+verb?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

What are being connected are logical clauses, not individual verbs or adjectives.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Oh, and yes, you can connect any of the three logical clause types (verb-engine, adjective-engine and noun+copula engine) to any of the others.

[@fairfarren38]

I really love this approach. So helpful!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you! I'll definitely keep going with it!

[@adrianinha19]

Yes!!! It helps with getting vocab and grammar at once, I liked it!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you! Looks like this approach will be continuing!

[@ynot344]

I Love this technique. I would love you to do more. You could choose a suitable book that was readily available on ,say Amazon, or you could write one. Maybe a Japanese folk tale. We could buy the book and we could read it with the help of lessons like this one that would be deconstructing the Japanese and teaching grammar via the book. Being astory book the language would be more real than text book examples. I would love this and the opportunity would be there to teach a bit about Japanese culture as it comes up in the story. Please consider this please.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I have been thinking along these lines for some time though I haven't yet worked out the exact form it will take. My fundamental philosophy is that learning Japanese structure is simply arming people for Japanese narrative, so the next step (or concurrent step as in these Alice videos) is to start tackling narratives. I do have another book I am trying to write (the fundamental structure key) but I've been so tied up with making videos I haven't got too far on either project yet. But I'm definitely serious about both.

[@ynot344]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you for your videos. I look forward to videos where you tackle the narrative. I have not seen anyone else do it and is a great way to take the next step from the grind of grammar into the reality of Japanese Thanks again.

[@mobilechedds]

Hello sensei, your classes have been helping me very much! I definitely see what you mean when you say that japanese builds on itself like legos. I have two questions. The first one is, how do I signal multiple clauses in "A is B" sentences? Do I use the te form of だ? What about for sentences that end in adjectives? Feel free to skip this question if you already explained it in a future lesson and I'm just getting ahead of myself. The second question is, if I wanted to say something like "Sakura sang for me" vs "Sakura was singing for me", would they respectively be: さくらはうたってくれた and さくらはうたってくれていた Would those be correct?

[@arazemijo9674]

I noticed in another video in this series that two verbs were connected with the い-stem of the first one, but here, two verbs (あそぶ and くれる) are connected with the て-form. What's the difference between these uses?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

The い-stem is the other Great Connector in Japanese (actually even more versatile than the て-form) it can even connect clauses (but I didn't go into that here because it would be too much to learn at once). With verb-verb word-compounds both the て-form and the い-stem can be used, but not interchangeably - some compounds use one and some the other. With verb-noun compounds like のみもの _only_ the い-stem can be used. More about the い-stem here kzbin.info/www/bejne/laLNao2hdqhlqqc - it's a bit more advanced but you can take a peek ahead if you're interested!

[@arazemijo9674]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you for your reply! I'll check it the video. ありがとう (:

[@LL-bl8hd]

Quick question: I've read that あげる/くれる without the て form can only be used for physical objects. So you couldn't say "I gave her a compliment" or "She gave me a lesson." It would have to be, I guess, "I gave her the favor of complimenting her" and "She gave me the favor of teaching a lesson." Is that accurate?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes. "Gave" in the lesson or compliment sense is an English expression strategy not shared by Japanese. On the other hand あげる/くれる in the sense of giving/receiving a (favorable) verb-action is a Japanese expression strategy not shared by English.

[@kimlim5453]

Hi cure dolly sensei, thank you for another great lesson! I was wondering why unlike the potential form where we add the helper verb る to a verb stem, we don't similarly do so here (where we use the て form of the verb + helper verb instead)? Is there any significance in this difference?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Strictly て and た also count as helpers added to special stems of verbs and adjectives. I don't go into this point for purely tactical reasons - that is to say I think it fails to make matters easier and we might as well stay with something like the "conjugation myth" in that case - essentially because て and た are unique entities that operate within a very limited range and seeing them as helpers of a type that has no other modern analogues makes matters more rather than less complex for the foreign learner. However as a point of interest they are in fact helpers according to native Japanese grammar analysis.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

In other words, I attempt to annihilate the "conjugation myth" not because I have any quasi-moral or grammatical-purist objection to it but because it messes up people's grasp of structure. Where it doesn't I don't' really mind leaving it alone.

[@retronickmusic]

There is much to unpack in this lesson, it goes by so quickly. I'll be honest, if I hadn't been studying on my own for quite some time, I would have fallen off. Your sentence structure visuals with the trains is still the best I've ever seen though. My background is Japanese From Zero! books 1 - 3. Have you ever seen these books? Do you have an opinion on them? They do an amazing job on finding the ta/te form of verbs. I'm trying to get some basics locked down here, before I go back to other sources. Thank you for all you do!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you for this feedback. This is the sort of thing I need to know. This approach is still kind-of experimental - and there is such a lot to explain even in such a short passage that it is a bit of a whirlwind in a way isn't it? Maybe I need to ease the pace. On _Japanese from Zero_ - I haven't read the books. Coincdentally, I did mention JFZ three days ago in a Patreon Post (I know you have access so I'll pop it here www.patreon.com/posts/19006838 ) talking about how Trombley-sensei of JFZ completely mis-teaches the が/を particles in the receptive. I'm not trying to bash him though, because nearly all conventional grammars do this, at least implicitly - just giving an example. This is just one of those things we have to live with, and coming here should eliminate that problem for you anyway. Other than that he seems to be doing something I'm not yet doing, which is teaching everything in very deep detail. In fact the narrative-unpacking approach of this video was my way of making a very small start on that. This may not turn out to be my best area of functionality - or it may (don't worry, I'm an android so I just do the experiment calmly!) I can't give any personal evaluation of JFZ as I've only seen a little but if it's helping you and making things like te-ta formation clearer then it's obviously doing a good job.

[@aliiiem7184]

Thank you for another really helpful video! I had a question about combining the てあげる grammar with the たい grammar, and what is the が-marked subject of the sentence. I made the phrase: 子供の時に、パパは私に読んでくれた。子供がいるなら、私が子供によく読んであげたい。 I'm trying to express "when I was a child, my father read to me. If I have children, I want to read to them often". in the second sentence, I was not sure whether I used "が" correctly

[@boadroad]

quick one, politeness concerned, in anime the often say te kure(in fact, more often then the full form), rude or not?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It isn't an abbreviation. It is the imperative (command) form of くれる. Whether it is rude or not depends - as usual in Japanese - on who is saying it to whom. Most rudeness in Japanese consists in saying something inappropriate to your relationship with the person you are talking to. So saying it to a stranger would in most cases be rude. A male speaker saying it to a "buddy" would usually not be rude. In general the imperative form is not something one should use to anyone but an intimate and even then it is a bit on the rough side. Consequently it is mostly used by male speakers (in fact I can't think of any exceptions here) - either to their "buddies" or to someone they intend to belittle. Sometimes you will hear a (male) character in dire trouble yelling 助けてくれ！ (equivalent to "HELP!") Obviously he is not setting out to insult passers-by who might help him. The expression is used to stress the urgency and is not insulting because it is not addressed to a particular individual and so does not violate the rule that one should address people according to one's relationship with them.

[@amarug]

I find this "ある＋Noun" quite interesting. Is that commonly used, also in speech, or is this more a poetic/written thing?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It is often used at the beginning of a story (as here) but it is also used in everyday speech to mean "a certain". So for example, ある人 can mean "a certain person" or just "some person".

[@amarug]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Awesome, thanks!! I actually had wondered "how to say that", now i know :)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@Adam M I am not convinced of this. It is quite common for a word to have three or more kanji "spellings" with variant meanings. For example 聞く, 聴く, 訊く or 分かる, 解る, 判る. Whether or not these are different "words" depends on one's definition of "word". I prefer the model that they are the same word with the differing kanji clarifying nuance. This is especially the case with very basic native Japanese words that would have been in use long before kanji were attached to them. The root-meaning here is "exist". 在る expresses the most basic meaning. 有る the extension "exist in one's possession" and 或る (kanji rarely used) the extended meaning "a certain". Now when we use the English translation this last may seem to fall a bit far from the tree. But I would contend that it is actually the English version that is eccentric. "A certain" if we look at its actual meaning implies that while a thing is not being identified, it is still "certain". In other words "in a village that could be named but won't be", "On a day that is certain but you won't be getting the information." It is one way of dealing with the fact that we don't want to say anything about it except the fact that it exists (at least within the world of the narrative). A more straightforward way is just to qualifying it as existing - which is the only thing we need to convey about it if we don't mean to convey anything else. This seems far more natural and logical than the rather contrived "a certain".

[@alanjrbontuyanab]

So if I want to use くれる/あげる for a noun I just use the を marking partical correct?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes,

[@diabollich]

Looking at the phrase at 2.01 the original title of "a certain magical index" came to my mind...just a question, in とある魔術の禁書目録 what is the role of と? Is there an expression originally they did not adapt and that we lost in translation? "???? a certain magical index"

[@GobiPie]

There's something I didn't understood very well. くれるverb is used to "give to Alice" from big sister, however since none of us is Alice, why couldn't it be あげる? I have an hypothesis: since we're following the adventures of Alice and not from big sister, the reader may feel closer to Alice than big sister, therefore we would humbly say くれるas if Alice was a projection of our self. Does that make sense? PS: I'd like to thank you for your incredible way of teaching which helped me a lot!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Your hypothesis is exactly right. We can use くれる for someone we are identifying with - particularly in the case of a narrator who is allowed to be "in the head" of the main character. Two things worth knowing are that 1. While くれる・あげる are in origin lowering/raising terms (therefore humble and respectful respectively) they are so commonly used to indicate where an action is going or to whom it is beneficial that they have largely lost that _nuance_ in modern use. So saying 〜てあげる to a superior is actually considered rude because it gives the impression that you are representing yourself as "giving a favor". The second thing to know is that while the books will tell you that, for example てもらう can only be used for receiving something oneself (or one's group) you will see some confusing uses as you advance if you take that too literally. So long as another person is clearly the focus or "main character" of a sentence it is possible for you to describe that person as もらうing. This is a bit tricky and I can see why the textbooks describe it as they do - we don't have any equivalent in English. Take this sentence: さくらは抗生貰って寝てりゃ治るだろ。 It means "If Sakura gets antibiotics and sleeps she will (probably) get better" (寝てりゃ is a contraction of 寝ていれば). In this case we are clearly making Sakura the center of the sentence and we are allowed to say もらう on her behalf. It is important to know this as the textbooks can lead us to think that there is some magical rule that くれる | もらう can only _ever_ refer to the speaker/speaker's group, which will leave us completely puzzled by some of the things we will encounter in real Japanese.

[@LL-bl8hd]

Thank you, I had that same question. I've found many of the textbook and online answers to this question inconsistent. They try to simplify things but ultimately make it more confusing by leaving out the nuance.

[@daydarasensei12]

We miss you Dolly Sensei

[@christaylor6414]

According to a previous video, we can test whether a temporal expression needs to be marked with に by asking whether we'd use a word like "on", "in" or "at" in English - eg, "on Saturday", "in July", "at 6 o'clock", etc. In this case, if ある日 means something like "On a certain day" (where we'd need to use "on" in English), why doesn't it need に? Is this an exception to the rule?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

While "On a certain day" is structurally closer, English is more likely in practice to say "one day" which doesn't need a preposition. So in this one English is not consistent.

[@koopanique]

I know I'm very late to the battle so I'm posting more for the algorithm rather than to give pertinent feedback... but I like this approach a lot. I think having the sentences "dismantled" in a systematic way like so, can clear up a lot of confusion about some structures that can seem a bit vaporous in regular textbooks (such as the "give action" structure in this video) Again I know this video was made in the distant past so maybe such approach has been continued or abandoned, just posting a bit randomly to add another comment

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Thank you! I did make some more Alice lessons and have done several text-analysis lessons since at both basic and higher levels.

[@MrKlumpfluff]

Keep posting sir, the reason is valid! This whole series is Old but Gold, to me at least. Strange that a lesson on youtube is old when it is two years old but a textbook is considered new at least for 20 years.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@MrKlumpfluff The law of gravity is pretty old too, but it still does the business.

[@siddhantnaik5545]

Sensei it feels like the ite after the yonde is the first time introduced to me. I can't remember and didn't even understand that one word only

[@Kahhru]

Teaching grammar through reading a story is a genius idea. Is the full story uploaded somewhere? I think it'd be great 'cause it can help people remember past lessons if they read it again.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Unfortunately, partly for copyright reasons and partly from teaching considerations, I cobbled this version together from various older versions of the story, so this "version" doesn't exist anywhere.

[@Kahhru]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 That's unfortunate. Anyway thank you for all the japanese grammar videos. AFAIK no other place does a better job teaching japanese grammer :) I have already recommended your channel to my friends.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@Kahhru Thank you so much.

[@epictyro9093]

For the function of 'te' form that links to clauses together, how would it work for verbs with helpers that are adjectives (e.g. -tai and -nai)?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

An adjective-ending sentence is always an adjective-ending sentence, regardless of whether the adjective is attached to a verb or not. So the regular adjective て-form is used ー なくて、たくて.

[@epictyro9093]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Ok thank you :)

[@redskeep1]

Sorry for off-topic, but could you please explain me the difference between を前に and の前に? For example 大統領は大衆を前に演説した why を is used and not の?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Let's look at the structure here. If we used の, it would be linking 大衆 to 前 giving a noun-phrase meaning "the front of the public", which all becomes a に-marked modifier to the engine: (演説)した . If we use を, the structure is different. We are linking 大衆 _directly_ (as the direct object) to the engine and 前に becomes an extra and more independent modifier of the engine. This also gives it a little more force, laying more stress on the fact that the President is directly (or perhaps openly) addressing the public. The difference is fairly subtle but noticeable.

[@redskeep1]

thank you very much!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

どういたしまして೭੧(❛▿❛✿)੭೨

[@E5rael]

I was left a little bit confused by the first example sentence (Aru hi Arisu wa kawa no soba ni ita). Would it be possible to wrap up the sentence in the train structure, like you did with the second sentence involving the big sister? It's particularly the "aru hi" component that left me confused, and now there are a few questions running in my head: 1. Would one typically separate "aru hi" from the rest of the sentence with a comma, as in ある日、アリスは...? How do these comma separated components play out in the train structure? Structurally, is "aru hi" part of the illogical wa-component of the sentence (aru hi Arisu wa), or is it telling something more about the A-component (the main carriage) of the sentence, about the B-component (the engine), or is it telling something more about the sentence as a whole? 2. Seems to me like "aru hi" is an absolute time reference, not a relative one. So, why is there no ni-particle with "aru hi", as in "aru hi ni"? In a previous video you said that if in English you'd use a preposition with the time expression (e.g. on Tuesday, in June), in this case "ON a certain day", you'd also add "ni" in Japanese. Or is that more like a tendency, not an absolute rule? Or is "aru hi" just a set phrase that's simply just always said in that way, without a ni-particle? Thank you for putting up these lessons! They just make the grammar pieces fall into place so nicely and tidily!

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

First of all, commas do not have a grammatical function in Japanese. They are simply a foreign pause-indicator that can be sprinkled at will into sentences without having grammatical implications. Please see this video for more on this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnW0nXqkpqqfirc "Aru hi" prefaces the entre sentence, placing it in time. In this case it works exactly the same as the English idiom, which in natural speech is not "on a certain day" (which is merely a rough translation of the Japanese), but simply "one day": "One day, Alice was..."

[@E5rael]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you, much appreciated! I don't know how you find the time to answer all these questions. I just hope you won't burn yourself out. Wishing you all the best! :)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@E5rael Thank you so much. I'll keep an eye out for circuits running hot.

[@Yunotchi]

Is it possible to shift tenses mid-sentence, e.g. "Yesterday, I discovered that I am balding"? Or is this forcing English phraseology into Japanese? Many thanks, your videos are immensely helpful.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I would say that this doesn't really arise in Japanese because we don't have continuous tense marking. In English we mark each element of a sentence with a tense marker. This doesn't necessarily make things any clearer. For example we can also say "yesterday I discovered that I was balding" and it would have exactly the same meaning. We would be left to suppose that the speaker still is balding because that is the most likely thing. In Japanese it is similar. The last verb will throw the whole sentence into the past where appropriate but will not override common sense.

[@Yunotchi]

That makes sense. Thank you!

[@vacantly]

very helpful!!! i love this story format. i have a question about something similar i encountered in text i was trying to translate, where 3 separate sentences didn't agree in tense:「アクセサリーやさんに　つきました。　おめあての　ヘアピンを　さがします。ありました！」the first and third sentence seem to be in past-tense, but the middle is in non-past. Is this common, or just a stylistic thing? Or is it similar to the tense agreement in the compound sentence we discussed here? any insight would be much appreciated! apologies if this is a question addressed later in your lessons. (text is from Ojamajo Doremi "the best gift" picture book)

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Agreeing in tense is not really a thing in Japanese. It is very common in narrative to switch to the non-past in the middle of past tense narrative - this can be done for various stylistic reasons and the narrative as a whole (including the present parts) remains in the past. Interestingly this ありました！ Is not necessarily past either (though it is here). You say that when you find something in the present too. The sense is "that's where it was (and now I've found it)" but we use it regularly even where we wouldn't think of saying "that's where it was" in English.

[@vacantly]

​@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 very interesting! i appreciate the insight/context it was helpful, thank you again!

[@RobsPixelworld]

先生, if you wanted to say "a certain dog" would you say いる犬? Or does this structure only apply to non-living things?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

ある is used here for living and non-living things. There is no actual law about this - just in most cases it is done. But just as non-living things can いる (in the continuous present following て-form) so living things in certain expressions can ある.

[@kunslipper]

Thank you so much.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

And thank you. I hope the course is going well for you.

[@osuosuosaka2590]

Dolly Sensei, A nagging question: what exactly is 'kudasai'? It seems to pattern as a verb, since I usually see it in Noun-をください form. But it sure looks like an adjective. Why, if it's a verb, is it not くださう? 助けてください

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Certain set expressions and あいさつ use words, and sometimes even grammatical forms, that are no longer in common use otherwise. ください is in fact the command-form (imperative or 命令形) of くださる, which is the honorific form of くれる "give" (yes, honorific forms can behave a bit oddly - we'll see that when we get to keigo which even Japanese people sometimes get wrong). くれる, of course is in common use both as an independent verb and a helper, but くださる is rarely used now. ください is a slightly strange expression because it is actually _ordering_ someone to give something, but doing it in such an honorific way that it is polite. Of course, just as with older English expressions like "goodbye" (orig. = "God be with you") no one thinks much about its origins any more. なさい actually works very similarly, and interestingly, outside of set expressions (like おやすみなさい), it is the honorific side of it that is forgotten and the command side that is remembered - the reverse of ください. You may very occasionally see くださいませ which attaches the ます helper-verb to the already-honorific くださる and then puts _that_ into command-form. Putting もす onto already honorific forms is usually considered a bit excessive. これが役に立つといいです

[@osuosuosaka2590]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 はい、これは非常に役に立つ情報です! ありがとうございました。

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

こちらこそ、いい質問をしてありがとうございます。実は、他の情報を加えてPatreonの投稿をアップします。

[@osuosuosaka2590]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 ああ、そうですね？見に行きますよ。

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

今、アップしました。

[@duytran-fl7wt]

Dear Sensei. You have explained in the story that if someone is give to me, or my group then kureru is used. Why is Alice in the same group of the person who told the story ? Thanks.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Alice as the central character is the person we identify with. So, for example, we describe her sister's book as "boring"- not because it was necessarily a boring book but because it was boring to Alice - so the story, even though third person is told from Alice's perspective. So an action that is "kureru" to her is "kureru" to the narrative.

[@namename4980]

I really like this approach! For me personally it would be better for understanding new materials after such detailed explanation to give some more real life sentences, a bit different, to cement the understanding. Though it can go a bit against the narrative structure.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I think the problem with that would be that it would mean we got through very little of the actual narrative in a reasonable-length video. Even now it is taking us the whole video to get through a very short passage.

[@namename4980]

Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly I mean that other examples can be just mentioned, without so detailed parsing. Different examples will help to understand and memorize how to use new grammar constructions

[@shifter3837]

Could anyone explain how that ending あそんでくれなかった means "didn't" against "wouldn't" in this context? In translation is it essentially the same here, or would it be a mistake to say "wouldn't play".

[@cataphor]

i believe (and i may be wrong) that there is no real difference when translating but that "didn't" would be grammatically incorrect in english

[@jasperxie9510]

Great video! So many things happened in one sentence so it takes time to figure out whats going on at the beginning. The things I got confused at is the word つまらない (boring), but つまら is also boring from google translate and つまる should be interesting/funny ('u' row to 'a' row + nai to make negative lesson 5) but means 'catch'?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

As you say, there is a lot to deal with in one sentence! つまらない means boring. There is no such word as つまら. Google translate is not a reliable source (to be fair to the Google-droid, she is trying to guess what someone might mean by つまら, but that makes her unreliable for learning purposes). If you want to look up words online I would recommend jisho.org which is a proper Japanese-English dictionary. つまらない is originally the negative of つまる (詰まる) which means "packed or full", so originally つまらない would have meant something like "sparse or empty", and later, by extension, "lacking in things (of interest)", "boring". But nowadays つまらない is just used as a word meaning boring and people don't usually even think of its etymology. PS Happy to see you thinking hard about words - that's the way to learn!

[@yoshikuyuu]

Is the the て-form of いる, いて necessary to complete a clause? Could I just write お姉ちゃんは本を読んで遊んでくれなかった? Or would that change the meaning of the sentence to something like "Big sister read a book and didn't play with Alice", whereas 読んでいて indicates to us that it's a continuous action, and thus means "Big sister was reading a book..."?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

You've answered your own question. That is exactly right. You can say either but they don't mean exactly the same thing.

[@yoshikuyuu]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thanks for the clarification!

[@SuperAlexGaga]

Cure Dolly, sometimes at shows it is heard "Minna-san , tanoshii kureta?" and I get lost because of this 'kureta'. Why kureta e what that literally means? It is a wrong use of kureru, a colloquial use? I don't understand why people generally translate this as "Are you having fun?” Could you please explain this to me? Thanks in advance.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Are you sure that is what they said? Correctly it would be みなさん、たのしんでくれた - mina-san tanoshinde kureta? (when san is added we drop the extra n from minna). This would mean "did everyone (kindly) enjoy?" or literally "enjoy as a favor to us", which is a very standard way of asking people if they enjoyed something you did. If they really said tanoshii kureta - well that would not be correct grammar. Deliberate baby-grammar, perhaps. But I suspect they were really saying tanoshinde kureta. Oh - I should add that たのしんで tanoshinde is not a form of the adjective たのしい tanoshii, but the te-form of the related verb たのしむ tanoshimu - enjoy.

[@SuperAlexGaga]

たのしんでくれた. Yes. I misunderstood. Gomen ne. Oh, i really appreciate this. I find it very important to know literal meanings. Thank you.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Not at all - it is always difficult to hear correctly before we understand the structure. Glad to have helped.

[@man100111]

Is there a difference between the adjectival usage of あるand とある?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

There is a slight difference in nuance. とある implies something a little bit more particular or unusual. So it would sound a bit excessive to say とある日, or とある人 just meaning "a certain day" or "a certain person" because these are very regular expressions. We would use it of something more particular like using indicating a certain teacher. a certain magical index, a certain word that has to be used to open the door. Something unique and particular that we are not identifying. It is a fairly subtle difference.

[@man100111]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you for the explanation :)

[@clifton4647]

I know I’m late to this but I’m realizing why so desu ne is used so much.

[@cataphor]

I think the closest thing i could think of to 遊んでくれなかった would be "would not deign to play [with her]", so i guess in some way we do have something approaching this grammar in english (though the connotation of deign is a bit incongruous in this context; the function is similar?)

[@citronvand]

So I am trying to understand these complex sentences. I've been grinding Anki with the 2k/6k core for quite awhile now, meanwhile I've been lacking motivation to pick up my genki book. I felt that it was time for a change because I feel kind of stuck. So instead of just grinding Anki, I decided to try deconstructing and actually understand the example sentences given for each word. So I came upon this sentence: この服はとても安かった。"As for these clothes, they were very cheap" if I were to translate it myself, though the answer given is "These clothes were very cheap" but I see a は and not a が and I did watch your past videos. Anyway, I wanted to make a complex sentence out of it, just for fun, and add でも現在は高いだ。But how would I connect it? I can't change 安かった into て form because then it wouldn't be in the past, no? I'm not even sure if my added sentence is grammatically correct. Even though English is my second language I am absolutely terrible with grammar rules or whatever you call them. Whenever you talk about conjugations, adverbs, adjectives, nouns, passive something something e.t.c. I barely know what they are in English, or even my native language (Swedish)! I honestly just write stuff that sounds right in my head. Regardless, I want to thank you so much for your videos, they are really helpful. Especially when you deconstruct and explain the sentences in the Alice story. Tack så mycket. EDIT: Wait, should I even have a ending copula after 高い? Wasn't it built in or something?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Structurally it is "as for these clothes, they were very cheap" but really the は particle is much more "agile" than English equivalents like "as for" - in other words we aren't saying anything nearly as "heavy" as "as for these clothes..." So the translation given is structurally not correct but a reasonable translation. English just doesn't have structural topic/comment grammar. You don't need て-form to make compound sentences. て-form is one kind of conjunction, but conjunction words like でも or から will do the job as well. No you shouldn't have a copula after any adjective (except for です in formal speech, which works as a formality-marker not a true copula after adjectives). I don't like grammar terms much myself so as far as I can get away with I do it with trains!

[@citronvand]

​@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you for your reply. It's funny because I was just watching your 17th lesson about how です & ます ruins your Japanese and that is exactly what happened. I felt conflicted about the だ I added but I couldn't tell why exactly. That is to say, I couldn't decide whether I should have used it or not. But it was because I was so used to seeing the damn です which would have been fine to use! I have a few more questions if you don't mind, but don't worry, I understand if you don't have time to reply. I am very grateful regardless. 1. Should I have a strong understanding of the lessons I watch before moving forward to future lessons? Or is it fine to just understand the gist of it and continue watching all your lessons? Because sometimes I struggle to really understand them, for example lesson 19 about causative and causative + passive. I don't think it is necessarily because I think your lesson is bad or anything, but rather, probably, because I don't have a fundamental understanding of what those words (causative & passive) mean in English. At least in the context they were used, I know what they mean in isolation if that makes sense. But I'm afraid that because I don't fully grasp what you're trying to teach in that lesson I won't understand future lessons. 2. I want to immerse myself more and not just study. I first tried manga but I soon felt that I lacked the motivation to continue, it was too easy for me to just do something else. So instead I bought a game, after all that is my main reason for learning Japanese. I've heard people recommend Pokemon but I am more of a 新・女神転生 fan. I also wanted the game to have Kanji which the old Pokemon don't have as far as I could tell. I found 二ノ国 which looks like it is for a younger audience and it has furigana for all Kanji! I could also pause all the cutscenes so I could study the Japanese subtitles. After playing the game I soon realized I had to use jisho and google translate a lot to understand the sentences, I was especially lost when some characters didn't use normal Japanese but some kind of dialect(?) or archaic words. But then, very early into the game, the game gives me a magic book. I open it and see it is actually a proper book containing some 400 pages or so, though not all pages are available from the start, and I'm like "u wut m8". Felt a bit overwhelming to say the least. But I am determined to read it anyway, if it was in English I would have read it before continuing on (I'm a bit of a completionist when it comes to games). But I'm struggling so much, I'm encountering sentences I have no idea about. I'll post a link to 2 pictures of the book in my next reply in case youtube blocks links, it is a very nice book and I very much would like to read it, but I also find it intimidating. So a part of me is like "This is too hard, you should find more suitable content". But another part of me is like "This is what you did with English, you played Ultima IV with barely knowing any English, failing miserably at it even confusing "cough" as a password when it was just the character coughing". I honestly wish I could remember more of how I learned English, I have memories of when I didn't know it and obviously memories of when I did know it. But very few, if any, of when I was "learning it" so to speak. Do you think I should continue playing it? I am definitely passionate about playing it, unlike the manga I tried, and I don't have problems spending hours alt-tabbing between jisho/google and the book. But sometimes it is so hard and I don't understand anything and it feels I'm just translating it through google. Sorry for posting such a lengthy reply.

[@citronvand]

Here's 2 pictures from the book as an example, I've only finished up to page 12 (the left side of the first picture) and page 12 has definitely been the hardest one for me yet: i.imgur.com/rkI8Nqh.jpg i.imgur.com/JuDK4nS.jpg (

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

​@@citronvand 二ノ国 is a wonderful game and a great starting point. The book is a bit "literary" and old-fashioned in style so you may find that a bit difficult. All Level 5 games have full furigana, including the Layton series (another good choice - and even more text intensive). I think a lot of structure makes more sense when you are encountering the problems "on the ground" as it were so I would get into some immersion (game is fine) as soon as you can manage it while continuing with the structure course. I talked about this in a recent video and I think you may find the analogy of a game and manual helpful: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKHQaqydeNqojtE

[@HyperLuigi37]

Is there any chance you could do a video on 頂く? Of course it’s used in いただきます, but I also see it in, say, 聴き頂きありがとうございます, which seems to be simply thanking the viewer for listening, but it feels like it serves a similar role to くれる, so in terms of which I would use in what situations, unless it’s just “くれる is talking to one person, 頂く is to a group of people” or something, it seems unclear as to which to use.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I have done this. Actually I have done two videos on もらう which lead us through these usages. 頂く is simply the keigo (specifically 謙譲語) form of もらう, so nearly everything I say about もらう applies equally to 頂く (I say nearly because some of uses of もらう are inherently not humble). I recommend watching the following two videos in order: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXa2d32Xe9VrfKs and then kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGPNYqJvrM9lpaM - this will take you rather further than your original question but should leave you with a clear understanding of the various applications of もらう/頂く.

[@HyperLuigi37]

Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly Gotcha, thanks a bunch.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@HyperLuigi37 I should add that a side-effect of ○○て頂く (because it is humble) is that it often negates the implication that the speaker initiated the action - as in your example.

[@HyperLuigi37]

Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly Interesting... that example was from a native Japanese youtuber, so it must be... a minor example of relaxed grammar? Thanks as always for the detailed explanations.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@HyperLuigi37 No it was quite correct. The implication isn't that the hearer induced the listener to listen but that the listener kindly listened. もらう is flexible enough to allow this but using 頂く is better because it makes it clear (and is politer).

[@TeamWnJ]

Cure Dolly Sensei! Would you agree that the te form is more like "therefore" than it is "and" ? I recently came across this example sentence and if we thought of te form as "and" it could be like: 伊藤さんは仕事が多くて働きすぎのようです "Itou-san has a lot of work and seems to be overworking himself" 伊藤さんは仕事が多くて休みすぎのようです "Itou-san has a lot of work and it seems like he's taking too many breaks" However, according to native speakers I've spoken to, the second sentence doesn't make sense. It would rather be more like: "Itou-san has a lot of work, therefore he seems to be overworking himself" "Itou-san has a lot of work, therefore he seems to be resting too much"

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It can work as either "and" or "therefore". It has a strong tendency to be "therefore" in many cases. Context and experience are vital here. Structure alone cannot replace immersion experience.

[@TeamWnJ]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Oh I didn't expect a reply to this! Thanks for the response though. I've spent a few more days focusing on this and understand it much better now. Definately, neither "and" nor "therefore" fit 100% here. In my mind I understand it as more of like the way a "," works to continue the logical flow of a sentence. Thanks!

[@JulesMorrison]

Hello Dolly Sensei, is there a reason why reading the book is treated as a present ongoing action, but did not (give) play is in the past? English would put them both in in the past. EDIT: you answered it just after I asked, my fault for not watching to the end first! I apologise.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

That's fine. It shows that you are thinking carefully as we go along which is the important thing.

[@7irousagi10]

Hello sensei! Sorry for commenting on your old video but I was wondering if I'm right that there are 2 zero-pronouns in「お姉ちゃんはつまらない本を読んでいて遊んでくれなかった。」? Is this one correct? お姉ちゃんは(∅が)つまらない本を読んでいて(∅に)遊んでくれなかった。

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

No need for the (∅に) - nor is it grammatical. The conjunction here is the て-form. There is only one zero pronoun. (∅が) is also ungrammatical (what entity do you think it would be? The sister is reading the book and she is named).

[@keepcalmandeatcookies9245]

But the te-form often also means "because" instead of "and", right? I would have translated it as "My sister didn't play with me because (since, as) she was reading a boring book"

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Well in English terms "because instead of and" is correct. In Japanese terms it is a clause-linker that can imply literal time sequence or logical causal sequence ("because"), and sometimes does not strongly imply either.

[@ianvelthuis4007]

Firstly, thank you for creating a excellent course on grammar structure. Many of your explanations really made the basics of Japanese 'click'. On the other hand, I feel that this video doesn't really work that well as ''a lesson''. There is both a lot of reviewing and new information to digest. Reviewing is fine, but the presentation of the new information (giving and receiving) feels a bit incomplete because it is only explained for the purpose of this one sentence. The presentation of new information also slows down the video, which kind of defeats the purpose of putting in to practice what has been learned so far. Nonetheless, it does solidify the pure structural grammar lessons. Maybe separate the storyline approach from the grammar course?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

You are making a very good point here. This approach is still experimental and it is very useful to get feedback on it. I am getting both favorable and critical responses and am trying to evaluate them all. Your point really gets to the major issue I think. Only having one example of a new structure-element means that we only see it from one angle, whereas giving several would lead to a very big digression from the story. Another possibility would be trying to use narrative that brings in the same structure a few times. Part of the point of this passage was to show て-form being used in various ways. On the other hand kureru/ageru was really only explained from the point of view of this narrative. Thank you. I'll keep thinking this over!

[@vfpallot]

Why do you use は for wa? From the hiragana charts ive been studying, thats ha and wa is わ.

[@vfpallot]

Also, os this use of the te form the reason you use でわない instead of like だわない like you discussed in your video about negatives?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It is one of the very few irregularities in kana pronunciation. The は particle is spelled that way but pronounced like わ - but _only_ when it is the particle. It came about for historical reasons.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

ではない also uses the particle は so it is not spelled with わ. And yes it uses the て-form of だ which is why it is ではない and not だはない.

[@epictyro9093]

What verb would you use if: 1) You are doing something for your own benefit? 2) Someone is doing something for their own benefit?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

As in most languages, what verb you use is entirely dependent on what "something" you are doing.

[@epictyro9093]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Would that 'something' that someone is doing change whether 'kureru' or 'ageru' is used?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@epictyro9093 くれる and あげる are simply attached to the て-form of the relevant verb. No other change is involved. くれる and あげる can be attached to any verb that makes sense to attach it to.

[@epictyro9093]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Ok thank you so much :)

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

I wonder why more comparisons don't point out that て-form is very similar to Latin gerund (and maybe gerundive - my Latin has gone a bit rusty). While English has it, it's really part and parcel of Latin. Maybe because nobody learns that dead language anymore, so nobody would make the connection?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Yes, I think that's it. I don't try to tie logical particles to the Latin (and other older Indo-European languages) case system, although that is by far the best way of explaining them. But it wouldn't be helpful for people to have to learn something they don't know just in order to have something to compare Japanese to.

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Yes, kids today, no longer learning the classics! Back in my day... bah, humbug. Fun fact: Latin is an Indo-European language that also used SOV order - it's a mild advantage to me in my studies.

[@seisveintiocho-x9e]

What if Iam above other people? Is Japanese then not for me? Can someone please give up an answer to me?

[@givmi_more_w9251]

In a completely unrelated note .... 2:29 Oh ... my God was that a Star Trek TNG reference?! :D

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

I'm afraid I've never seen it. I do actually have quite a few sneaky references in my videos (often to Japanese games and anime) but that wasn't one I'm afraid.

[@givmi_more_w9251]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Haha, still a nice coincidence :) Have a wonderful weekend!

[@cherubin7th]

Haha, I was thinking the same.

[@naumbtothepaine0]

2:31 that's sad

[@dorklymorkly3290]

Disclaimer: I am asking about the following case because it is something I am working on, to contribute subtitles (without compensation, though ) to a webseries I enjoy, but it also pertains to actual study of grammar. I just want to be transparent here, is all, so you can decide to ignore it on the basis of very mild shilling on my part. (Don't worry though, I will not use it as a precedent to get free contributions from you... the sentence I'm tring to replicate is simply so specific in its complexity that thinking of a rephrasing isn't worth it in my book, etc so I'll just post the actual thing) Anyway (and it's gonna be a mouthful due to the names alone) I'm interested in chaining these correctly: Quetzalcoatls rattle scared him (Huey), so he (Huey) made his own rattle to try and scare Quetzalcoatl back. How I tackled it (a character is explaining the situation to another one) : ケツァルコアトルはそのラテルでヒューイを怖がらせた だからヒューイは自分のラテルを作って ケツァルコアトルを怖がらせようとした。 This feels super awkward to me but I can't put my finger on why. Probably the stems are the main culprit but wrangling this chain of logic / reasons is tricky to me, still.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

It seems pretty straightforward. It may be constructions like 怖がらせた (literally something like cause to show signs of fear, which is a way of saying "scare"). だから makes grammatical sense if you have a pause or comma before it (not a から at the end of the previous clause but a だから at the beginning of the new one). Is there anything else puzzling? "Quetzalcoatl scared Hyuu(?) with that ratel(?), so Hyuu made a ratel and tried to scare Quetzalcoatl." It is expressed pretty normally. Presumably you know the character's names and what a ratel is from context.

[@dorklymorkly3290]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Lol, sorry, the names are tricky due to them being rooted in Aztec lore (Huey is short for Hueuecoyotl) and Ratel, well, I could not find a word that describes a rattle, you know, like at the end of a rattlesnake, or what a baby might use as a toy. (Edit: I got ラテル from the Japanese article for the instrument ...lol ) Quetzalcoatl, in this case, is personified as a rattlesnake. (searching for "coyote and rattlesnake" + "no evil" will very likely yield the video/episode) But yeah, thanks for reaffirming some things. I think the nature how it was said by the character (all in one go, to set up a "ohh, wait what?" gag threw me off a bit too. As in,what bits to keep, what to trim away.

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@dorklymorkly3290 I thought it was probably a rattle but wasn't sure. I did know Quetzalcoatl is associated with rattlesnakes. So good luck trying to scare him with one!

[@AK-gt6om]

Dolly sensei, maybe a bit late but a comment from a beginner who's been following the lessons progressively: I get the gist of the grammar point and it's nice to have the story, but at the end, I personally prefer to have 2/3 examples to get a stronger grasp of the nuances of how it's used. For example, someone in the comments mentioned "how about oneechan wa hon wo yonde asonde kurenakatta" and you said it's also correct but has a different meaningthe difference being it's simple past and not a continuous past. I wish I could have seen this usage in the lesson for example. The lesson emphasised the first Te form of Ite so much that I thought the second Te form + kureru is used only when there is that first clause with the te form. I guess it was a lot of information to input in 9 minutes and with only one example sentence... I know you like to keep the videos short, but I for one wouldn't mind something a bit longer (15 minutes is still fine and you often did it) if it makes me feel, at the end, that I got a more exhaustive overview of a concept, which gives me more confidence in understanding it and using it. Thank you!

[@カペラマヌエル]

先生、"Big sister was reading a boring book and didn't do me the favour of playing (with me)" は正しいですか。

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Alice in Wonderland isn't written in the third person even though it takes at times an authorial "inside the character" perspective. so it would be "Her big sister was reading a book and didn't (do her the favor) of playing (with her)." Of course "do her the favor" is a way of explaining the Japanese in English. It is much less "agile" than the equivalent Japanese so putting it in explicitly would make a much "heavier" statement than is there in the Japanese. This is why translation is an art, not a science. You can't say _exactly_ the same thing in two different languages - especially two languages as different as Japanese and English. For more on the neglected but important concept of linguistic "agility", please see this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJWwlounrMp1gJI

[@kenny6331]

I thought "asonde kureru" is "play and give" since te form is "and"

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

て-form is more than just "and". It has several different joining functions, one of which is to join a verb to a second helper-verb (this is usually what is happening when two verbs are directly てed together. So もってくる for example joins もつ hold to くる come to give us "bring". More on this here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqS3pJ-fh8pleck

[@kenny6331]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 isn't "asobi kureru and mochi kuru" connecting one verb to another too ?

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

@@kenny6331 Yes, The い-stem and the て-form are quite close in a number of functions (they can both make compound sentences too). However as in any language there are some combinations that sound natural and some that don't. So you can say deactivate and unlock, but not unactivate and delock. Similarly the て-form, not the い-stem, is what is used in these particular cases.

[@epix4300]

Done

[@summereletrohits2014]

I wasn't expecting to gain SEN here

[@5bitcube]

7:45 これについて疑いがあったが今何もないんだろう

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

よかったですね。

[@jeomaxx7499]

私わ忙しくてから遊戯をくれなかった - i couldn't play games because i was busy is this correct? sensei

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Broadly right. The particle pronunced wa is written は, not わ (the only serious irregularity in hiragana pronunciation, but important since it is used all the time). You can't use both the て-form and から for a compound sentence. One or the other. 遊戯 is not a usual word to use here (one needs to be careful about throwing in words from the dictionary). ゲーム would be more natural. But broadly you have the right idea.

[@jeomaxx7499]

@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 i see arigatou sensei i forgot about the は particle sounding like wa so it was like instinct and i guess in japanease the katakana words or loan words helps alot in making things really easier.

[@MrKlumpfluff]

This approach is nice. Train-language f.t.w!

[@AbderrahmenLahyani]

In lesson 5 there is no explanation to what te form does The te form in asonde 6:52 wasn't explained too

[@organicjapanesewithcuredol49]

Correct. Lesson 5 is about how to understand verb groups and make the て-form, not about what it does. It does a lot of things. If you re-watch this video a little more carefully I think you will find out what the て-form is doing there.