Origins of the Archdevils (Monster Manual II)

I continue my look at the occult and literary sources for archdevils, this time covering Monster Manual II.
0:00 What's today's video about?
0:33 Belial
5:07 Mammon
8:40 Mephistopheles
12:28 Moloch
18:15 Thanks
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[@farspeakerdm90]

Purchase his Adventures Dark and Deep or his Greyheim Adventures on Drivethru RPG! Chefs kiss!

[@danielgoldberg5357]

I backed the kickstarter, so eagerly looking forward to getting my books and starting my AD&D campaign later this year! I already have 5-6 adults and 1-3 kids committed to playing... gonna be some old-school goodness!

[@jaimeirigoyenlopez5884]

It would be cool if you could link the sources for the analysis on the description! Great video btw.

[@mattinthehat3]

Very excellent video as always. I would of thought that you would have also referenced the Dragon magazine article 'The Politics of Hell '. I can't wait to see what you do next in this video series.

[@pentegarn1]

Got to love Mephistopheles. As Faust...I like to use him to pull my Mages into deals they can't resist. ;)

[@geofftottenperthcoys9944]

Glad to see it's now a POD as well!

[@jeffweskamp3685]

Molech was a modification of the Hebrew word for "king," melech. The vowels o-e from the Hebrew word bosheth, which means "shame," were inserted into the word to denigrate the deity.

[@eenkat]

I think most middle eastern Demons/Devils were worshiped and were treated this way. I still use most of it but keep in mind that they are from my Mesopotamian areas in my gaming worlds and sometimes thought of as the good guys or started out that way, like a fallen angel.

[@AC-dk4fp]

@@eenkat Pagan Mesopotamians were as scared of harmful spirits as the Jews were and had their own excorsism traditions. Only a handful of genuine Mesopotamian deities ended up in European Christian demonology and often they just reused obscure Biblical names they didn't understand for something completely differant..

[@eenkat]

@@AC-dk4fp Many Demons & Devils were made that way by various stories probably following the edict of Milan by Constantine. Its not just middle eastern mythologies as Greek and Roman were also made so and used in this game as such. There are a lot more than ten, although I'll agree some didn't understand them, but more over they were encouraged to demonize those that were worshiped before under threat so its understandable how it happened. The fact that people who laid the groundwork for demons and devils in dungeons and dragons found many of these obscure ideas is great.

[@raymondhemphill146]

LET’S KEEP GREYHAWK ALIVE!

[@jeffweskamp3685]

Some sources claim that Mammon was originally the ancient Persian god of wealth.

[@user-nw7gn4vk9o]

I would not rely on anything LeVay "wrote".

[@anon-yw4wd]

Yeah man. Doing a deep dive on that guy is freaking wild af.

[@robertshulman1659]

me neither. I am a huge fan of Greyhawk Grognard, but with all due respect, I would prefer D&D canon to Lavey quotes and demonic sigils flashed in my eyes.

[@DIEGhostfish]

Oh it's bot a question of trust, the guy's creepy occultism just had an impact on public perceptions at the time.

[@markrucker9107]

Moloch is a Grand Duke and not just an Arch-Devil because he reports to Baalzebul; he is a lieutenant

[@danielgoldberg5357]

Makes sense.

[@sketchasaurrex4087]

Awesome!

[@maximus3160]

Like the series! Keep up the good work.

[@sunsin1592]

Belial also gets a shout-out in an episode of "Barney Miller."

[@oscarsalgadocom]

Very good and interesting video!!

[@davepeller8185]

"Hell's Ambassador to England." There's an adventure!

[@erictighe1683]

Links to, or a list of, the Books referenced would be great.

[@stevestumpy6873]

🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉🐉

[@jamesbreeden9016]

Another great video. I'm looking forward to the 3rd installment

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

It dropped today!

[@michaelramps1786]

Keep going

[@robertfellrath4935]

Great video, as always.

[@williammeek7218]

The three M’s of evil .

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

M & M & Muhahahaha

[@hawkeyepearce1066]

Ahh... Moloch, star of the original AD&D PHB cover art. Also star of "The Apocalypse Stone", one of the three "apocalypse adventures", created during the 'end days' of 2e AD&D, to be palate-cleansers, making the way for the oncoming juggernaut that was to be D&D 3e.

[@johnedgar7956]

Hello Joe, yes indeed, please continue this series. 🙂 I still don't understand the difference between Arch Devils and Dukes/Arch Dukes of Hell. Wouldn't Asmodeus be the "King" of Hell? This is grim stuff, of course...but a breakdown of all that would be helpful. Thanks for the video!

[@josephpurdy8390]

The first Monster Manual ranking them from lesser devil to greater devil to arch-devil. No dukes are mentioned in that book. The lesser demons and devils were assumed to not have names. This comes into importance if a spell were to summon them. A player would need to know their name to specifically conjure them with higher level spells.

[@ryanmatthews5882]

I believe Moloch (M*lk in Hebrew) is identified with the Syrian god Melqart or the older Akkadian god Mulik.

[@MrRussell2020]

Glad to see you alive and the experiment continuing. More interested re: insight on which fiends were chosen or edited out by Gary, Mike, Bryan etc and which resources they used. Thoughts? Interesting the comment someone made about the Dragon magazine article.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

It's really hard to know the sources in many cases (although sometimes Gary named his sources for things in online Q&A's). I would love to see a catalog for the Lake Geneva public library in the late 60's/early 70's. It would doubtless have a few insights.

[@MrRussell2020]

Yes interesting what pops up in the Q and As. Ex a few months ago James Ward graced me with answer to a few questions I posed to him re: his Deities and Demigods on a Facebook forum. To my knowledge I am the last person who asked him serious questions about the book before he passed away just recently.

[@MrRussell2020]

I may be now the only person who knows his Main source materials and directions he would have explored if allowed to do an expansion of the first book. He was a really nice man. James Ward RIP.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

@@MrRussell2020 Then you should share that with the rest of us, before you die and take the knowledge with you.

[@danielgoldberg5357]

Really interesting videos, sir! Definitely would love to see one on the Dukes of Hell as well. I never owned Monster Manual II, so this video was especially interesting. Do you include all of these fiends in the Bestiary of your game?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Dukes video is coming. 🙂 Yes, Adventures Dark and Deep has all these. MM2 was one of my favorite resources back in the day, I couldn't very well not include them.

[@Amesang]

I once played a tiefling sorcerer connected to Mephistopheles; my referee allowed me to alter the "dragon-blooded" subtype to be "fiendish-blooded." I particularly liked Meph's artwork in the 3e _Book of Vile Darkness._

[@SimonAshworthWood]

Britt. 😮

[@xgnardprime]

REPEATING previous COMMENT re: investigating Teen Suicides who coincidentally were heavily into DnD Interviewer asks: 4minutes 26sec "Dungeons & Dragons 60 Minutes Special [βeta / 1985] " into that video Quote ” if you found 12 kids and murder suicide with with one connecting factor in each of them wouldn’t you question it “? Gary Gygax explains “I would certainly do it in a scientific manner. And this is as unscientific as you can get it’s nothing but a witch hunt” There’s a lot of psychological scientific research unveiling ancient psychological warfare behind all the names in that Goetia. I’m no expert in ancient Hebrew linguistics or semantics or etymology of word choices, but I think it’s pretty well understood “Shem HaMephorash” is a list of Virtues / Angels or Angles “the names of God” where as the arch-Devils and Demons are their inverted names of Vices and deception, just like shadow in nature is casted with each every light. All 72 of them are given specific segments along the Solar Ecliptic of Western Astrology. IT’S good to DYOR and compile lists of Virtues and Names of God in a lot of different IRL spiritual teachings to purge one’s mind as an antidote to the stress of imagining A lot of Scary RPG situations. An excellent prayer is the Baha’i Long Healing prayer “Reflections on the Bahá’í Long Healing Prayer”

[@MrRussell2020]

Bahia members all go to Hell. Why? Because you can't Buy-a Faith. Lol just jokes

[@hectorforth2671]

Politicians