Whatever Happened To Tales Of The Valiant?

[@flamepulse42]

also those 203 results for adventures are including all the 5e modules that have made previously

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

think they made it just to be sure they had something out there that they could refer to as an alternative to 5E. Why would you want to switch-because 2024 D&D is a brand new game and not 5E and you do not want to keep giving WOTC money.

[@matthewparker9276]

They wanted to be the next Pathfinder after the ogl was cancelled. They announced quickly, to try and seize momentum, which kind of worked, but then wotc went back on cancelling the ogl, and they were left without a plan. Other 5e clones (e.g. nimble, a5e) have fared better because they had a clear goal and while they built momentum more slowly, but haven't had the foundation of that momentum ripped from under them, and alternative systems that sprung up from the ogl scandal (e.g. daggerheart, DC20) have fared better because they took the time to establish a clear direction to take the game, allowing them to hold on to momentum after wotc changed their minds. But while kobold press' gamble didn't pay off, it appears not to have hurt them much. They had a pretty smooth transition back to the status quo.

[@JackCharlesBrightwell]

I recently had the TofV physical books arrive and they are making me tempted to get rid of my core WOTC 5e books based purely on the fact that TofV books are stitch bound, not glue bound. I'd much rather have the more durable book, but if you're already deep into 5e I for sure wouldn't recommend it and do feel as though I got wrapped up in the hype of it all

[@wavemaster4891]

Project Black Flag was in the development stage before the OGL crises. This just sped it up. Also, they said it would be different to 6e BEFORE the creative commons development FROM WOTC. So then they put out an article explaining that they decided to use the now legally accessible meterial from 5e and fix it's issues. And that it would be 5e compatible, that way everyone wins. You get to have your 5e game, you know and love, but also improved with classes fixed, details on ways to use items you have on you and their DC checks, etc... They were upfront about all of this. I was bmed too when they announced this. But then I tried it out at Koboldcon and it was fun as hell. Thier Luck Point system is very fun and such a joy to use as a Fighter. The weapon option feature makes it fun to be a non castee. (Something I hadn't experienced in 5e's version) Some people want to have a completely new game but a non WOTC version of 5e worth the try. You may love it like I do! Join the Kobold Press Discord for playing it and watching thier weekly videos etc..

[@gablott]

When announced, I was so excited. I own more KP books then WoTC. I even have Project Black Flag shirt sold in first month. However as more and more information released it was just a 5.5 edition of DND. I was really hoping for something new and fresh. I understand KB wants all their previous books to be compatible, but really wanted something new from them.

[@DM_Bluddworth]

It ended up being a 5E homebrew that no one asked for and Kobold Press initially promoted they would not make. There was great excitement for Project Black Flag. Then they quickly folded in less than a week, and went back to promoting 5E.

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

Project black flag is pretty dang cool for those of us who still want to make decent D20 product under the ORC

[@kevoreilly6557]

@@TheOGGMsAdventuresjust make it under the d&d Creative Commons license

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

@@kevoreilly6557 what if they don’t want to make a d&d adventure

[@monsaemon]

I’m a big kobold press supporter, so this is a biased take. But I’m excited to play ToV. Starting our new campaign using the new ToV books and other KP books like Tome of the Heroes. I understand the criticisms of it’s too 5E like. I think they could’ve made more rules improvements to be the “better 5E”. But it worked for us cause my players like 5E and don’t wanna learn new games sadly. So it kept us playing D&D and me no longer spending money on WotC or Hasbro.

[@danielc.9585]

This to me is the main motivator... avoiding giving any more money to WoTC/Hasbro if I can help it

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

It's for sale on Drivethru, other than that It seems to have vanished? They have not mentioned it recently, I'm on the Black Flag mailing list and it's all about their D20 agnostic stuff like monsters and adventures. They never said it was a new game, they said they were going to fulfill all their contracts with 5E and then continue to support their stuff as well as be able to make new 5E stuff without fighting WOTC thanks to the ORC

[@dm_curt]

@@TheOGGMsAdventures I think I unsubscribed to their mailing list.

[@TheOGGMsAdventures]

@@dm_curt ok doky, im still on it

[@michaelpaulini7562]

from a power-creep POV, i would say if you allow Planescape/Spelljammer/Dragonlance/Eberron backgrounds in 5e, it is basically the same. Also post-Tasha classes fit right in. There is just a very large power range in regular 5e, that WotC are also addresssing with their 2024 edition. It is basically a 2024 5e, before that came out.

[@CopperDragonGames]

Great video, and thanks for the shoutout!

[@johnnyahsome5846]

I am a big backer of TOV, I have not gotten my books yet from kickstarter but I do have the pdfs. I changed to TOV from hasbro cause of the crap they have pulled in recent times. Since the OGL I have been playing Shadowdark until TOV shows up. Personally I might stick with SD as it has the best old school vibe.

[@dm_curt]

@@johnnyahsome5846 Shadowdark looks pretty good. I want to see more done with that framework in other genres.

[@yourseatatthetable]

Can't say I've heard of it before.

[@JScottGaribay]

I think "Tales of the Valiant" was a pretty terrible name. I think it made them lose momentum.

[@dm_curt]

@JScottGaribay Interesting take. It would be a good name for something else. Something with adventure. Good-Guy Heroism is implied. It's not significantly longer than Dungeons and Dragons or Call of Cthulu (both 5-syllables and high sellers) What makes you say it's as bad as TERRIBLE, though?

[@JScottGaribay]

@@dm_curt well to your point it is very hard to come up with a good name today cuz all the great ones are already taken. But tales of the valiant is just it just lays there. It's just so flat.

[@dane3038]

I like it fine. Abbreviates to ToV and we all know the community likes to abbreviate. Tales means stories, so that works and Valiant denotes Brave although it has some connotations with "Good Guy Heroism" as has been pointed out. I suspect that connotation comes from Prince Valiant, but the word simply means, "Brave". Which all adventures ( almost all ) must be before any of their tails become worth the telling. Also, it's not about names, mechanics or art... It's about fashion and fitting in to the typical D$D player, although they'll never admit it to themselves. Hard Truth.

[@JScottGaribay]

@@dane3038 It's a terrible name. Valiant is antiquated at best useless at worst. I think what you're doing is spin. It's a really bad name by any metric.

[@dane3038]

@@JScottGaribay Your right, it's silly for a Fantasy RPG to use "antiquated" words. I mean, who does that?

[@ravenwulfgar]

The main reason I haven't switched to that one is because I have a library of fantasy systems. I have way more than I'll probably ever play but Castles & Crusades and Wasted Lands by Elf Lair Games, was and are my alternatives. I just don't need any more fantasy systems. I'm exploring other genres at this point.

[@dm_curt]

@@ravenwulfgar You can only invent so many variations of the wheel before it gets redundant. My own fantasy collection, like yours, has everything I need. If I buy more, it's just for the sake of collection.

[@grimmdm1]

Hey the digital release was in May of this year…The Kickstarter Backers and Preorders are being fulfilled as I type this comment…physical copies will be on sale and at flgs by the End of July or in time for Gen Con…

[@dm_curt]

@@grimmdm1 Cool.

[@bamboozledgreatcrowd8982]

They screw up calling it Tales of the Valiant. They also thought they would be the next pathfinder.

[@JScottGaribay]

I think it is alive, but not kicking, just kind of laying there. Great coverage though - you did the research and reported your findings clearly. Thank you for the video!

[@dm_curt]

@@JScottGaribay Thank you!

[@PRGidaro]

They wanted a compatible but in there minds better game than 5e. So it’s not a new game system but it’s a different take and many people don’t want to deal with wizards and there mess.

[@DM_Bluddworth]

But is it played in the wild? Anyone see it run at a convention or FLGS?

[@dm_curt]

@DM_Bluddworth Good question! I haven't been to any conventions lately, and only have 1 games store near me (where I saw 5e played and I ran a 2e game for a bit). I'm going to assume it's fairly rare.

[@Decado1628]

I think TotV is just getting to kickstarter backers. If I was going to GM a 5e style game I would look at this system. I have a lot of 5e KObold Press books and the quality is a 1000x better than wotc. However, I would rather keep using Castles & Crusades.

[@backonlazer791]

I did see a fundraiser gamer for Doctors Without Borders that was using Tales of the Valiant. Other than that I haven't heard much.

[@CopperDragonGames]

I can confirm that it will definitely be played at Gen Con this year.

[@nate7790]

You're more likely to see it in your local store once it's actually released (on July 17th I think)

[@truix5386]

You basically said everything that I thought of when it came to seeing what ToV was going to be like. I have copius amounts of problems with 5E. Hit point bloat, PC's being made stronger with every new expansion, but monsters staying basically the same, and the expectation that I am supposed to write out an entire story with an over-arching narrative, and then read my players several page backstories and then fit all of that into the plot. Any derivative of 5E will, without a doubt, inherit these same exact problems, and thus I've sworn off the epic fantasy genre all together because none of them fix any of the issues I have with the genre. Daggerheart, MCDM RPG, DC20, Tales of The Valiant; I will not be buying any of these games. My efforts are much more appreciated by OSR style games, and I've been buying and playing those non-stop for months.

[@wendymeeple9218]

You sighed all the way through the video and you haven't even read the players handbook 🤦‍♀️

[@dm_curt]

@@wendymeeple9218 The playtest was enough to let me know that it was okay, but just not what I was looking for. Are you currently playing in their Midgard setting?

[@wendymeeple9218]

@dm_curt no I'm playing in my own setting, wanted to ditch hasbro but love 5e for valiant was perfect for me. I am loving playing it. Seems more fun for everyone.

[@dm_curt]

@wendymeeple9218 Glad to hear it.

[@usermammal]

dude script and edit your videos

[@flamepulse42]

make you own if you dont like it