Origins of the Domesticated Horse | Ludovic Orlando Interview

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Astonishing how much Genetics and Linguistics can tell us about Prehistory after over 4000 Years 👍

[@beepboop204]

thank you for this video! i actually find this topic interesting, particularly why/when people stopped using horses for wagons/chariots and started to ride them, particularly in combat. this is probably the 2nd video i can think of that addresses this stuff that i have found, much appreciated

[@youngimperialistmkii]

Same. I had heard that riding horses in warfare came after the use of chariots. Not sure how much truth there is to that though.

[@masstv9052]

another channel. called Dan Davis Author, has a lot of video on ancient steppe and northern bronze age culture of the horse cultures, covering from chariots, wagons, and riding, to their expansion and the different ancient horse cultures rarely discussed on most history sites.

[@niranjan8173]

41:46 i was expecting something about chariot found in sinauli, india and here it is. Need more research on horse and human genetics. Loved this talk. Would love to see more research and info on Indo-gangatic civilization

[@warrenpowers108]

Amazing interview. Thank you for letting your guest fully explain his points; so many KZbinrs assume their audience won't understand and waste their interviews asking superfluous 'clarifying' questions. Such an insight, absolutely fascinating. Thank you.

[@matthewabln6989]

Amazing work by Ludovic! Thank you David for presenting a most fascinating talk.

[@mickdipiano8768]

What a good interview. He was amazing and clear. Thank you David!

[@MarkVrem]

Good stuff! The idea that the bottleneck wasn't domestication but the invention of a durable but lightweight wheel is fascinating. Never really before thought about how amazing a technological leap it was to create a wheel that was light and good for many miles over rough terrain at fast speeds. This makes me wonder if metalworking played any role.

[@kellyezebra]

Dr. Miano I love your work and have watched so many videos! You are so good at making your content and the contributions of your collaborators engaging and plainly understandable for non-historians and non-scientists. I have learned so much from you and look so forward to your future videos (and my future watching and re-watching of previously shared content.) Thank you so much for your effort to share your knowledge and inspire others with your lifelong learning!

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Thanks. Glad you like them!

[@alxa4739]

Amazing research, big thanks to the team and Dr. Miano

[@lameesahmad9166]

Absolutely fascinating. I am very impressed with the variety of disciplines this team has used to explore not only the origins of the various horse breeds but also their owners identity and how the horses were used in their migration through various territories. They seem to cover all bases. Thank you for this video and thank you Ludovic for your very interesting and clear description of your findings.

[@Sunmonks]

A great conversation on a topic I find endlessly fascinating, thank you for this!!

[@GSteel-rh9iu]

Dr. Miano is an excellent interviewer; he listens most of the time! Also the quality of the content, sound and chapter markers really a fantastic best of KZbin! Missed it the first 3 times I listened to the When and Where section 23:30; North of the Black and Caspian sea.

[@pratyushjoshi1785]

The reconstructed Proto-Indo-European word for a horse is *h₁éḱwos which is derived from the root word *h₁éḱus which means "swift." Though not a regular feature of Proto-Indo-European grammar, this root word could have been reduplicated to get *h₁éḱwos. So basically the Proto-Indo-Europeans called a horse a "fast fasty."

[@WayneBraack]

Very cool. These little specialty niche topics really help bring the people of history and history itself alive.

[@biercenator]

This was a *really* interesting vid, thank you for pulling this interview together. (As an u/g student of Rhetoric and satire, I have to say that I'm very pleased to see the Houhynymns given proper recognition in the historical record.)

[@jjw56]

Doc, once again you enlighten and inform

[@tarekmohamed3263]

Thank you making this interview available for us, very illuminating research. I am curious about the history of horses in Ancient Africa, Ancient Egypt specifically, I would love to know about the earliest evidence for the arrival of horses in Africa and Egypt.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

From what I understand, the domesticated horse first appeared in Egypt around 1700 BCE.

[@tarekmohamed3263]

@@WorldofAntiquity Thank you Dr.Miano.

[@deewesthill4705]

@@WorldofAntiquity From what I recall reading, horses and donkeys came to Egypt during foreign invasions, such as the Hyksos in about 1600 BCE. Set, Egyptian god of evil, who killed his virtuous brother Osiris, has an animal head with large ears that look somewhat like a donkey's. Set is believed to be akin to an alleged donkey-god whose golden statue was worshipped secretly by Jews. Set's name may be related to the Roman god of farming, Saturn, and to the Biblical Satan meaning in Hebrew "opponent", who in the Old Testament tested Job and in the New Testament gospels tested Jesus.

[@dannyboywhaa3146]

Oh wow - great to see such a video! I hope it was inspired by my comments during our discussion 😳👍 that would something wonderful for me, can’t wait to watch it!

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

Today I finished viewing this video in full. Sanouli chariot of India at abt 4000 years ago appears to be still a matter of surprise and mystery though not improbable. I was little disappointed that there were no samples tested from Indian and Harappan sites. Horse and Indo-Europian(Aryan) is a very hot topic in India and testing of ancient horse samples from here could have clarified the IE migration issue. Well we can wait for further research in this field. Great video.Thanks a lot.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

He says he wants to do more testing in India, so I am looking forward to that.

[@niranjan8173]

In Sinauli archeological survey of India (ASI) found human skeletons, male and female, both were warriors. Copper helmet, copper sword, shields, chariots without spokes but reinforced with copper sheets. But horse DNA was not found (later they wrapped excavation). Carbon dating of materials suggest 2000 BC - 1800 BC. Hope they start digging again : )

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

@@niranjan8173 two carbon dates of sanouli: 1815 and 1500 BCE. NOT 2000 and 1800 BCE. Human DNA analysis NOT done for Sanouli.

[@niranjan8173]

@@gangadharhiremath7306 thanks for the info. But when skeletons were found I thought they would have extracted DNA

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

I am no expert but it is said that DNA extraction from the ancient skeletons is a very complex process,more so in Indian conditions.As for as my knowledge goes,ancient DNA extraction in India happened only with Rakhigarhi female sceleton.Please let me know if I am wrong.

[@anitapollard1627]

Thank you 🤗 Dr. David & Dr. Ludovic!!! Awesome!!! Wow 😮😊❤

[@dannyboywhaa3146]

12.05 dog does a pretty impressive disappearing act 😂

[@gustavderkits8433]

Wish I could put two thumbs up. A great interview on a terrific topic.

[@nebulan]

Love hearing about how the research is changing. Not changing so much as learning more information. I had heard the PIE connection to horses before but interesting to learn they more likely migrated with cattle herds.

[@willmosse3684]

The problem with this explanation, is why then do European languages share the same Indo-European word routes for horse related elements? Part of the reason for ascribing the Yamnaya related migration into Europe as the source of Indo-European languages there, is the horse related terminology. If I understood Dr Orlando’s information correctly, horses were domesticated by the time of the Steppe migration into Europe. If so, then while it is true that there were no chariots at this time, the linguistic evidence would surely suggest that horses were already important to these Steppe migrants at this time, whether for riding, drawing carts, or something? Riding horses to enable herding cattle over large distances in order to utilise the resources of the whole Steppe is the explanation given by Harvard geneticist Dr David Reich in his 2018 book on archeo-genetics. Edit: having gone back and listened, I think he actually was saying that this domestic branch of horses did not exist at the time of the Steppe migration into Europe. This then does leave a big question around the common horse terminology in their descendent languages in Europe…

[@hewhoadds]

evolutionary biology is so interesting i was introduced to it through researching trees and forests 💜

[@lakrids-pibe]

The Centre for Anthropobiology and Genomics of Toulouse, C, A, G T. Pretty funny!

[@magesentron]

What a great Christmas video! Thank you!

[@iahmad1760]

This is great, thanks for sharing!

[@girishm5880]

Very much informative. Thanks for posting this

[@brsdasa]

Thank you for this discussion Dr. Miano. As a person interested in the people who authored the original (shruti) Vedas I find this type scientific information very helpful.

[@MarkVrem]

46min on the origins of horse.. yes pls!

[@ryanvalicek7291]

Great interview!

[@partneanderthal2679]

Merry Christmas, David! Keep up the good work! 😊

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Thanks!

[@schandilliaq]

Your videos are my most anticipated on all of KZbin. One quick question: Do you also have a podcast?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

No, I do not. But I am happy to hear you enjoy the videos.

[@joqqeman]

Awesome stuff, great presenter of his research

[@johntellnott12345]

excellent video, thankyou both.

[@welcometonebalia]

Fascinating, thank you.

[@Paul-hl8yg]

An interesting interview on the subject of the horse. Fascinating about the various wagons/chariots used throughout history using the horse for 'horse power'. I know that from my own lands the British Isles, more modern horses were bred for various tasks. For mining came the smallest Human bred horse, the Shetland Pony from the Shetland Isles. Then the biggest Human bred horse, the Shire horse, bred for pulling ploughs & heavy carts. This horse is named after the Shires, as in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Wiltshire etc. I believe the Romans had bred the horse to a large strong size for military & domestic use. The Britons then going a step further, breeding the horse to the size of the Shire horse later.

[@carlloeber]

I appreciate this..

[@tekannon7803]

It is fascinating to learn about the domestication of the modern horse. Professor Orlando does a very good job of speaking English---one exception: we don't say 5.5 thousands of years ago. We say: 5. 5 thousand years ago or 5 and a half thousand years ago. We never say: 3 thousands of years ago.

[@ShummaAwilum]

Alright, fine. You caught me. I domesticated the horse. Sorry guys, I just didn't think it would be that big of a deal.

[@alainpean1119]

Very interresting interview. I am from France, but did not know Ludovic Orlando ;) But I think the mysterious Yamma people who domesticated the second wave that spread everywhere should have been mentionned. They are only seen on the maps. I read that some people said that with their expansion, they carried diseases, like the plague, that already caused a lot of deaths in Europe.

[@alainpean1119]

And I should add, that the Yamma people could be at the origin of the indo-european languages.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

I think you mean the Yamnaya people, and they are mentioned.

[@JustinFatfingers]

Any recommendations for a book on ancient history for a beginner?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

What period of ancient history and what culture?

[@JustinFatfingers]

I don’t really know. I don’t know much about it. Maybe something broad so I can go deeper in to something more specific later. Thanks for the reply.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

@@JustinFatfingers Well, there is so much that happened that a single book would have difficulty covering it. But you could check out Chester Starr's History of the Ancient World.

[@JustinFatfingers]

Thank you!

[@PaulKapow]

Excellent

[@courtneyriley185]

Very cool.

[@gustavderkits8433]

The “Standard of Ur” shows chariots used in warfare with solid wheels, not spoked, drawn by equids , horses or onagers, and is dated about 2600 BCE. so it must have been almost right at the point of domestication. So has anyone analyzed the genetics of the horses in Sumerian graves?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Are there horses in Sumerian graves?

[@PraveenJose18551]

Standard of Ur show wagons, chariots require spoked wheels, being pulled by donkeys.

[@marthacoomber3188]

Here in Australia we have mass extinctions that puzzle people. I think the answer is human use or domestication. Certainly genetic spread and success is linked to human use - as with the horse. People here ensured the environment and ecosystem around their useful plants and animals were farmed or modified to suit the requirements of those favoured elements, and the hunting and gathering of these resources. Seems to be a very blurry line between farming and hunting and gathering. Very interesting!

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

this is very good, is there any way you could do the domestication of camels next? There is an old criticism of the Genesis story about Abraham (c1800BC), asserting that his camels were a later addition to the story, back-projected from the later stage when they were common in use for warfare, around 1100BC. However, after a huge amount of effort I managed to prove that they were domesticated before Abraham, but never wrote it up, I just satisfied myself on the point. I wonder if general research has moved on since then, particularly in DNA studies. I am sure you could do it, it would make an interesting vid. Thank you for your attention.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Yeah, that might be a good topic to cover.

[@mattiasfagerlund]

Awesome! Did the Botai people ride their horses? If not, is that why they didn't spread? Also, I love how your dog peeks out the window!

[@WorldofAntiquity]

The impression I got was that they did not ride them.

[@mattiasfagerlund]

@@WorldofAntiquity Awesome - I *really* like these interviews, and that you bring a historians perspective with your questions instead of a journalists perspective, makes it so much more in depth and the interviewee seem very much into it. I suspect they're used to being misquoted for clickbait, but with you, they know that's not going to be happening!

[@MaryAnnNytowl]

Oh, COOL! Another great Xmas (Newtonmas? _giggles_ ) gift from YT! I got the happy news of a successful liftoff of the James Webb this morning (well, that was via the NASA TV channel, but still...), got a Sabine video, will be getting a Dapper Dinosaur video very soon, had YT suggest a brand new (to me) ancient critters channel, and now I get THIS? An embarrassment of riches, today, which I absolutely love! _~happy dance~_

[@drunkenkot]

If you close your eyes, he sounds like Kermit the Frog. Great interview!

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

Pretty sure the term "Pontic-Caspian Steppe" describes the region he's talking about pretty much exactly.

[@aleskejla4719]

Very interesting discussion gentlemen, You really helped me to understand better the current widely accepted theory about horses origin. But one very important part of this topic you even not touch: was first horses able to carry a rider? Why first riders appears around 900 BCE? Thank you for answering

[@DegaVertigo]

Amazing video. I’ve been on the hunt for information on the domestication and spread of horses - specifically in the Americas. While I may be aware of the basics, I have had to deal with a group of people who claim that horses were introduced to the American continents in the 6th century BCE by a group of exiles from Jerusalem instead of later as part of Columbian contact. This video really parallels some information I’ve come across - such as composite and loan words in tribal languages that are used to mean horse. If you read this comment, what would you say is the likelihood that you’d do a similar video to this one on the history of Horses in the Americas?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

If a video arguing for an ancient importation of horses to America gets enough views, I might.

[@warrenpowers108]

@@WorldofAntiquity A tangent that would inevitably lead to challenging LDS theology? Sounds fun, to be honest. Lol

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

Well, this is seasonal! My tribe still roast horses for Christmas! :D Nah, seriously, it's nice to see a non-seasonal upload. All the religious and atheist channels seem to be doing the Nativity, the pagan origins of Christmas and so on. Nice to see the history channels giving us a break! PS I'm a retired molecular biologist as well, so this is great! {:-:-:}

[@deewesthill4705]

This video did not mention Arabia's role in the international market fir horses. The name "Arabia is believed by linguists to derive from Sanskrit "Arva-Sthan", "Horse-Land". Since ancient times horses of Arabian lineage were deemed the very finest, swiftest, most beautiful ones in the world and so were in high demand.

[@ktanner438]

Nah man you're trying to hide that it was Atlantis, I have some navelgazing from some dude to back it up

[@maronily]

The horse drawings in Lascaux date from the Paleolithic period, i.e. from around 17,000 to 15,000 BC. BC

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Not domesticated horses.

[@rljatfrogpondschool7283]

....I need help dating the age of a mastodon skull I have found.... Who do I contact...This skull has carvings of elephants; and possibly a horse.... that was done when the bone was fresh...

[@WorldofAntiquity]

Bring it to the Anthropology department at your nearest university.

[@jay2times814]

Read David Anthony’s The horse the wheel and language.

[@pcatful]

How do we send you questions on general topics? I can't find any link or email. Were ancient human remains found in the Americas:kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIbQfpR9jZx6mbc

[@WorldofAntiquity]

speakpipe.com/DavidMiano but I generally don’t do prehistory.

[@pcatful]

Oh.Thank you. I saw that video and just the title raised my doubts. I think maybe Milo will have something on this.@@WorldofAntiquity

[@casparcoaster1936]

I dream, u scream, we've all been weened (from delicious) equine ice cream!!

[@Agnostic7773]

New Report : The findings challenge the long-held belief that massive human migrations in Eurasia around 3,000 BC, which spread Indo-European languages, were facilitated by horse-based mobility. "It was thought that human steppe migrations about 5,000 years ago took place on horseback. Our work shows that at that time the horse did not move across the steppe. Hence, while people moved, horses did not," Orlando explained.

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

It was my assumption that the chronology with respect to prehistory can be discussed with a margin of error of 500 years,+ or - Here the professor is talking about events in the range of 100 or 200 years. Does this mean that the new technology of ancient genome research has made our knowlege about the past,more accurate?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

When you say a margin of error of 500 years, what kind of chronology are you talking about? Carbon dating?

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

@@WorldofAntiquity sorry for the delayed response to your query. The confusion is because of my limited ability to express in English. By using the phrase "margin of error in chronology" I tried to express the general notion that the chronology of ancient history (of any country or civilisation) can be discussed with an approximation to the nearest 500 years. For example,the arrival of Indo-Europian in to the Indian subcontinent can be put between 2500 BCE to 2000 BCE. I thought,the gap of 500 years here,is an approximation.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

@@gangadharhiremath7306 Ah, well, it all depends on the situation. In this case, I think the error margin is about 100-200 years.

[@gangadharhiremath7306]

@@WorldofAntiquity OK.Thank you

[@suryadevararao1795]

Who ever has money buys an iPhone and similarly in ancient times whoever has money bought horses. Egypt, Mesopotamia and India were well established civilizations with trade links. It seems they have money to purchase those horses and that is how Mitanni reached Anatolia with a text on horse training. The rest of Europe was poor at that time so you can see cattle herders were traveling there not horse selling business people. It is just my guess.

[@safi164]

Ahan! So genetics pretty much support that the Proto-Indo-Europeans are related to the domestication of modern horse.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

It would seem so, yes.

[@_robustus_]

After western steppe domesticated horses became desired, maybe the botai horses and the wild horses were simply hunted and eaten because they were less useful.

[@Zebred2001]

I wonder how the original pre-Columbian horses of North America are related to the old-world horses. I read that the most recent fossil horse in North America comes from two sites in Alberta dated at 6000 B.C. (Pg.56 Canadian Geographic Aug/Sept 1986)

[@WorldofAntiquity]

royalalbertamuseumblog.tumblr.com/post/165445188617/albertas-ancient-horses-what-their-teeth-and

[@cosmasindico]

Who domesticated the horse? A total badass that's who. Heck, we are probably all descended from him because he got all the women.

[@andreaarchaeology]

I wanna know the origin of the horse girl. Why do they exist? Why do they love horses so dang much? Ok but in all seriousness, looking forward to watching this! Merry Christmas, Dr. Miano 🎅

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

I think it's the sitting on the horse's back and the rhythmic, up and down bouncing motion. {:-:-:}

[@andreaarchaeology]

@@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095 omfg I was not expecting a response like this 🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀💀

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

@@andreaarchaeology LOL! I think it's true, though. I've heard it said! {:-:-:}

[@oldranger649]

good stuff sent it to all the "fam-bly

[@lt419]

This horse theory in relation to human migration seems to be getting weirder and weirder as time goes.

[@johnree6106]

What now you have to consider are they horses or ponies. It was funny because a paper came out saying medieval knights rode ponies. I believe due to height or something like that.

[@Hallands.]

I’m seeing this emoticon more often in random comments recently (there’s one further down): {:-:-:} What’s the meaning, if any, please?

[@johndewey6358]

If you do not want to spend 45 minutes , look up the Sintashta Iranian Tribe in where today is Russia. They domesticated the wild horses and by selective breeding they established the modern horse. The same tribe also created fighting chariots with spokes.

[@elconquistador5095]

I wonder when the ancient Egyptians acquired horses. Obviously, they had chariots.

[@yakmi1116]

The Arabian horses could be the first domesticated horses by the inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula.

[@WorldofAntiquity]

They have the same origins.

[@rylancairns5454]

Thought video thumbnail was a playstation game cover

[@ivanl.1881]

Comment for the algorithm.

[@docvaliant721]

Aryan Eurasian Steppe people Along the black sea region.

[@normdeeploom5945]

It is the worlds oldest profession. I’ll show my self out.

[@AntzLoks1314]

El-Choctaw-lord-De-CalifasMexicoAztlan Antz-that-walks-in-sky i

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

Eight minutes in and he's laying on the dumbing down for an historian a but thick, isn't he? /oO\ {:o:O:}

[@WorldofAntiquity]

I asked him to. I want people who know nothing about the subject to be able to follow along.

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

@@WorldofAntiquity It was using the word "text" instead of "code" when talkng about DNA sequences, as if an historian who deals in ancient texts would grasp it better than "DNA code". I found it a little over the top, but then I was a molecular biologist. The sad thing is, I didn't seem to learn anything about the evolution of domesticated horses. I do recall you asking about the Bowtie horse several times, after he had said they were not the point. But then, I was listening while playing an MMO. I'll watch it properly later. But all our cells (except red blood cells and a few other specialised cells) have a nucleus. The nucleus is the library, like Alexandria, or the cave of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The chromosomes are the books in the library, or scrolls in a pot. The gene families on the chromosomes are like the chapters in the book. Non-coding regions are like the blank at the end of a chapter (and introns, non-coding sequences that interrupt many genes). The coding regions of the genes are the sentences in the chapters The nucleotide triplets are like words in the sentences. The DNA bases are like the letters in the words and, like some ancient languages, the words are three consonants without vowels. Each three-letter word, or nucleotide triplet, in a gene sentence is translated into an amino acid in a protein string. Many genes are very similar and highly conserved in closely-related species, and show greater divergence in more distantly related species. We can estimate rate of change over time by changes in the DNA sequence, analogous to assessing the age and provenance of a document by changes in handwriting and additions to the text. So the relationships and ancestry of organisms can be assessed like one would decide that (IIRC) Mark came before Matthew, and an extinct document Q existed and so on. So it can be deduced which organisms were ancestral to modern horses, analogous to Mark being ancestral to Matthew, and Matthew and Q being ancestral to Luke (or whichever way round it was). I don't know if that helps. {:-:-:} _(Edited for tyops)_

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

@@WorldofAntiquity I watched it properly and it was much better when I could see the maps. But using "text" all the time was still throwing me. He could have made that analogy at the start and then used "code", or "DNA". I think that would have been a lot better. Cheers! {:-:-:} _(Edited for tyops)_

[@jasonhare8540]

Just out of curiosity is pure Flix your sponsor or just a KZbin sponsor . Because right off the bat their anti-abortion advertisement film is starting to piss me off ... *I will not be watching any more of the video . I'm not watching their ads or commercials for superstitious iron age hate speech ....

[@WorldofAntiquity]

I don't choose the ads.

[@jasonhare8540]

@@WorldofAntiquity I kind of figured but I just wanted to be sure .

[@claudiaxander]

Santa is not PIE as he insists on reindeer!

[@MarkVrem]

Right! He's like an Elvekian or something.

[@claudiaxander]

@@MarkVrem If Santa was A Kurgan, you'd wake up on Christmas day with your male lineage slaughtered in their beds and find your wife and daughters pregnant!

[@MarkVrem]

@@claudiaxander 🤣

[@jennypoussin3866]

Of course the real original horses come from Atlantis. They had an advanced culture and civilization. Mister Ed: your secret is out! Merry Xmas! 🎄⛄

[@WorldofAntiquity]

You know who Mr. Ed is too? Isn't that well before your time? 😉

[@jennypoussin3866]

@@WorldofAntiquityyou know who the Pharaohs are, isn't that WELL before your time? 😋

[@jennypoussin3866]

@@WorldofAntiquity Joking aside, I think Mister Ed is well before your time too no?

[@WorldofAntiquity]

@@jennypoussin3866 Um...okay you got me. I guess we both are old souls.

[@properlynumb7092]

Wilber!