Orion Telescope Is Gone - Now What?

[@nickdonofrio4425]

I worked there in the late 1990's. Tim Geisler, the former owner who started the company out of his garage, was a great employer who treated his employees very well. The crew of people I worked with were some of the best people I've ever worked with, a lot of good memories. One of the best jobs I've ever had.

[@maj.d.sasterhikes9884]

Hey There Nick. It's Max from Sales. Nice to see you're still around.

[@pacnik77]

of course its been a while Nick ,,dont remember you , There mostly in the West Marine days once they moved to Watsonville I was only working partime driving the Van to SF and Cupertino I worked with Ken and Steve Peters designing the bags fro the truss Dobs

[@pacnik77]

Steve White, Les Larson ,Spike , etc probably moved on in the late 90s

[@nickdonofrio4425]

I worked in the call center, when I first started there spike was my supervisor and Steve white was tech support along with Eric k.and Jack D. Eric took over after spike left. Cory S. Arch O. We're in repairs. Max, Mike ricci, Dana, and rod Knowles were all in sales. Cindy k. Was administration and back up on calls when it got really busy. Tim was still owner and his wife worked there p.t in accounting.Dave thomas was in dealer sales. I forgot some of my coworkers names but they were all great. I think I was there about three years. Got to go to RTMC in Big Bear one year......great time.

[@pacnik77]

@@nickdonofrio4425 yeah Eric K and I were both hired at the same time 1990 spring I think ,, Spike a little later we all worked the phones .. then I went downstairs did returns and delt with venders / issues with products etc.and Les and I and Spike would go to Giants games after work , one Warriors game. . I talked to Eric a while back as far as I know hes still at Celestron.

[@mitchellcasey4864]

I remember living down the street From Tim Gieseler in Santa Cruz back in the 1970s. I was walking up the road with a friend one evening and Tim was out on the street in front of his little house with a telescope. He was looking at the Orion Nebula and let us both take a look, then gave us an astronomy lesson all about the Orion constellation. I only realized later that he owned a small telescope and science shop in Capitola and I use to love going there and getting stuff, some of which I still have. When my son was small I taught him about the different features of the Orion constellation, and he was fascinated hearing about Betelgeuse. Thanks, Tim. Today that old neighborhood is kind of run down. Good memories, though.

[@AstronomyGarage]

That's an incredible story! Thank you for sharing.

[@margaretkenny3416]

Thanks for the Orion Video! We have 12 Orion telescopes in our Club and always encouraged people new to Astronomy to buy their first Telescope from Orion like the 4.5" Star Blast. Getting their catalog (before online sales) was once the highlight of my day. Add another great thing that I will no longer get enjoyment from. 1. Drive-in movies 2. Record Stores 3. Radio Shacks 4. Electrictronics/Hi Fi Stores and now 5. Orion Telescopes! Now all my KZbin videos on Beginning Astronomy as a hobby are outdated. Kim Kenny-Crewe Observatory and Astronomy Club.

[@AstronomyGarage]

The 4.5" Starblast is still a great starter telescope if you can find a used one.

[@grantmartin1852]

@@AstronomyGarage Same with Edmunds' AstroScan!

[@goldni4429]

Same here with me on the catalogs,I was a young teen in the late 90's and getting one of their catalogs in the mail was like a mini Christmas! I learned a lot from those glossy pages! So sad thir gone.

[@dr.russ_nutritional_psychology]

I was a Meade dealer a number of years ago and found that I could never count on shipments being on time - ever. I eventually closed that business, sold the last two Meade telescopes I had purchased for myself, and then switched to Celestron. On another note, I made a couple of small purchases from Orion last year and was considering getting a small reflector to complement my ED refractor - thank goodness I decided against buying an Orion. Still, it's sad to see them go.

[@martron587]

I have an XX14G that had defective encoders. It cost me $345 to ship the two parts that have the encoders in it from Las Vegas, back to them as the encoders weren't working properly. This was in June. I decided that I could drive to Watsonville to pick up the telescope on July 26. The manager told me it would be $200 to fix it as the telescope was 3 years old. I had been calling them since day one to report the problem. When I got there they were very nice and told me that they would load the parts into my Prius. It turns out that they gave me a whole brand new package that included all wiring and base, and sides. The telescope now works fine. I now have an extra front and side plus extra hardware. Looks like I got there just in time.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Did you mean June 26th or July 26th? The reports are that everybody was let go on July 9th. Congrats in beating the odds and getting a working unit from the service folks!

[@judd_s5643]

Unrelated to astronomy (I do own a Meade Lx90ACF ). I was preparing to write a $26,000 check to a reputable mfg of experimental aircraft kit. I delayed the order 1 week do to work commitments and during that week the company went bankrupt! I had been in conversation with the factory the whole time, no one had any idea of the pending bankruptcy. I dodged a major bullet with that one.

[@AstronomyGarage]

You really did dodge trouble on that one! I happen to be very familiar with that industry (I've been to Oshkosh several times). Sudden bankruptcies seem to be a commonplace in the experimental aviation world. So many people have lost their deposits (or worse).

[@MuzixMaker]

I believe Vans has dug themselves out to an extent.

[@vincei4252]

I was considering writing a cheque for $45K when RC Optical Systems went bust. They had sent me a quote and a couple weeks later they were gone. That would have been one of the most expensive mistakes I ever made.

[@AstronomyGarage]

@@vincei4252 That sends shivers down my spine. Wow.

[@vincei4252]

@@AstronomyGarage I just looked through my email and for posterity's sake here are the prices. They are eye watering for sure. Hi Vince, Here is the pricing for the 16RC Telescopes ... $41,600 16RC f8.4 AstroSitall Truss $44,000 16RC f8.4 AstroSitall Tube $45,500 16RC f9 ION Milled Truss $47,800 16RC f9 ION Milled Tube You should also consider accessories like the TIM $2,450, PIR $2950, FF/C $2650 and spacer set $375. Just noticed you also wanted a price on the robotic Primary dust cover for the 16RC - $8500. Let me know which telescope you would like a formal quote on and I can put it all together. ---- I'd bought a smaller telescope from them some 10 years prior that I still own. I even got to try out prototypes of some of Brad's gear and give my feedback. The only permanence in life is change. Not necessarily for good.

[@franceslarina5508]

It should be mentioned that at the root of this rot is...a private equity company. They borrow money to buy a company, extract anything of value for their own investors, load up the company with debt which is also extracted for the private equity company's investors, operations are cut to the bone and beyond, and then...the purchased company just goes belly up. The private equity is then considered "successful" and touted for its returns for its investors. It then moves on to buy another company. This could all be prevented by voting in politicians who will regulate industries like private equity.

[@jamesnasium4035]

What relevance is your little anti-capitalist story to this situation? Orion sold Chinese-made telescopes, made by Sunny. (Orion never made its own telescopes.) Then Sunny, a Chinese company (you know China, the communist country?), bought Meade and stopped selling telescopes to Orion. Then Orion sued Sunny. So explain to me how this has anything to do with the big bad capitalists from Wall Street who ruin everything?

[@davidg3944]

Literal parasites, but they'll claim they're merely "exploiting market inefficiencies". Perhaps they should experience inefficiencies in, oh, digestion and respiration...

[@davepowder4020]

Are you a communist???? I joke, I joke, but you might get that kind of response from some when you question under-regulated capitalism. Under-regulated capitalism, with private equity groups and the like, can actually shut down entire national economies. There really does need to be better regulation, and it needs to be explained and shown why, using these slash-and-grab private equity companies as examples.

[@SeeLasSee]

Major democratic donors they are to the new party of big business.

[@davidg3944]

@@SeeLasSee They're in the pockets of lobbyists and BB far more than I'd like, but compared to the actual "bought and paid for" R's?? Hah...

[@rotorr22]

I bought my C80 from them in the early 80's. It still occupies a space in my living room. Many, many wonderful years of observing with it. I'm very saddened by their demise.

[@Lwege]

Yes, shut down. I was the sales manager at Meade & Coronado. I retired May 7th. Unfortunately the owner is difficult to contact. Assets are being sold.

[@IXTJ]

Hopefully someone will buy the Coronado IP, would be a huge loss if it just vanishes.

[@sandragayle7866]

What about the software for Meade LPI -G camera and Guider? Will I still be able to use it? Because there will be No updates for it.

[@msromike123]

@@sandragayle7866 Well hopefully it is not cloud based and does not require phoning home to be authorized. Other than that, if it works now, you should be good.

[@MsGorteck]

Did your retirement disappear?

[@DrewNorthup]

​@@MsGorteck He's probably not able to answer your question.

[@Hilmi12]

As the operator of a small astronomy shop in the middle east I can tell you that after the short lived spike in sales during covid things have been going downhill. Further more our suppliers in China now compete with us directly and offer free shipping worldwide as well as local Chinese shops selling globally at domestic Chinese prices, these can be as much as 30% lower than advertised global prices. The manufacturers have not been able to clamp down on these sellers. How can I compete on selling a mount if a customer can buy it for several hundred dollars less even after shipping?

[@tedwalford7615]

That's highly unethical of China! And it's likely against contract terms as well. It would take economic pressure by the U.S. to stop that kind of behavior, but that's unlikely to come from the current administration.

[@MrGp3po]

@@tedwalford7615 I'm thinking ethical China is a bit of an oxymoron.

[@OGParzoval]

@@tedwalford7615it’s congress that’s controls tarriffs and OP is in the Middle East. His government is responsible not ours.

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

​@@tedwalford7615 why would china care about being ethical? They are in it for the money and taking advantage of it. Any company on Earth would do the same.

[@ljubomirculibrk4097]

A bit of a reality check, do you haw eney idea how meney sanctions and restrictions US imposed on China?​@@tedwalford7615

[@johnwong5521]

This story reminds me of when I was a teenager and I worked all summer at odd jobs to buy my first personal computer - a Texas Instruments TI-99. The most lucrative job was collecting and freezing gallons of lightning bugs that were used in experimentation at Oak Ridge - I think this eventually resulted in the creation of those glow sticks that are popular today. My family had a large open top freezer I used as the amount of bugs was too much for a normal freezer and no way was my mom going to have bugs in the same place as ice cream. I would go out in the yard every night when it started getting dark with a gallon jug and funnel to swat the bugs into and then placed the jugs in the freezer. I was told when I dropped these off that I had brought in the most frozen bugs so far. Other jobs included mowing the yard and parking cars for sporting events. After I raised enough money I was able to buy my first PC and start learning to code. Unfortunately a few months after my purchase, Texas Instruments discontinued the TI-99. I was so upset I turned my back on computers for almost 20 years...

[@selewachm]

Yeah, those early days sucked. I still have two Sinclair computers from back then. I just don't know how to hook them up to a display. :)

[@WayneTheSeine]

No wonder I no longer see lightning bugs. 🤣

[@johnh9637]

A commenter (from the UK) on the Sky & Telescope article covering this subject described how he also returned a very expensive Dob to Orion for repairs, apparently never to be seen again. I'm not sure why the execs are not being investigated for criminal fraud.

[@jwwebnaut7045]

It's theft, actually.

[@BrianAllenWS]

They should get prison time...

[@Tugela60]

That happens all the time in bankruptcy. You are a creditor if that happens.

[@stephenjones8928]

@@Tugela60 And pretty low-on-the-totem-pole creditor at that...only one notch above the ex-employees, if that.

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

@@stephenjones8928 The acrual item sent in for repair still exists and arrangements should always be made to return said item.

[@RadiantHeartCoaching]

Sorry to hear this, I was the designer of the 10" Classic Dobsonian and XT 4.5 telescopes. It was very gratifying to see the 10 inch used by public observatories such as the Visitor Center on Mauna Kea and at Chabot College. Sorry for the staff. The bigger puzzle is what happened to Meade.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Wow! Sir, I have owned THREE of your telescopes (Orion 10" Dobs). They were wonderful telescopes. I restored one earlier this year. Of all the telescopes I've had the 10" Dobs seem to have had the best mirrors. It looks like Meade was a victim of Orion's demise unfortunately. Orion (it's owner actually) bought Meade and when it went down, I guess they all went down. Feel free to email me at: JJDreese @ yahoo . com (without the spaces).

[@gsmith4295]

I have an Orion 10" classic Dobsonian... so thanks for your design

[@darrylgaston7009]

I still have my 10" Dobsonian also and will be using it tonight as the skies are suppose to be mostly clear! thanks for your design help.

[@johnkieran7936]

I bought a 10” dob because of one I used at Mauna Kea!

[@jimpoop]

I have an XT4.5 i use for little kids at outreach events. Its a phenomenal design. Thanks for making it happen.

[@tim1398]

I once had a drycleaner go out of business with 5 of my sport coats inside... I never saw them again. It turns out there is short window where the bank may let you retrieve your items then it all goes to liquidation. Of course nobody will notify you. The bankruptcy laws should really be updated to force them to return property that does not belong to them. Years ago I worked for a company whos contract manufacturer was facing financial troubles. Our operations manager got wind of it, rented a U-Haul the next day and went there and demanded all our of inventory of parts (which we owned), much to the surprise of the people at the CM who mostly had no idea it was coming. Less than a week later the doors were padlocked, and any chance of retrieving our companies property (and thus avoiding bankruptcy of our company as well) would have been tied up in the courts for years.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Wow! Sorry to hear about all the jackets getting stolen. :( I'm impressed that you and your employer were able to get all that equipment before the contract manufacturer went belly up. That was a close one! I've heard of this happening while somebody had their car in the shop to get repaired!

[@StarGeezerTim]

This all makes me very sad (and angry, but mostly sad.) The guy who got me into astronomy always had high praise for Orion, and would direct folks to them when they "got serious" about the hobby. Whether you were just coming into astronomy, or a seasoned veteran, Orion had instruments (and price tags) to take you from proverbial soup to nuts. I'm almost glad my astronomy mentor Jim didn't live to see this travesty, it would have broken his heart. I truly hope customers can get their instruments, and that these executives can be brought to justice. This just doesn't pass the ol' sniff test, and I'm sure there's some rotten doings afoot. Thanks for giving us the news, dire as it may be.

[@jonathanr2830]

People in business with the trusting public who would so callously harm any customer in what in any scenario would be considered "theft" or "fraud" do not earn or deserve "civility" in response. Of course, many lawyers and businessmen would disagree with that statement, but I put it out there with all sincerity and empathy for the customer who sent his 16-inch Dobsonian to the den of those "businessmen." Further, I suspect that the "businessmen" a/k/a executives involved at and near the top of the proverbial food chain have not and will not lose any of their beauty sleep over the hardships of that customer who had put his trust and good intentions in their "caring" hands.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I've been contacted by a few more people since this video came out - there are more who are out lots of money. One gentlemen sent in an expensive Meade telescope for repairs. It's possible that his telescope was sent to Tijuana for service before the company went bust. His may now even be out of jurisdiction for US property laws.

[@jonathanr2830]

@@AstronomyGarage Thank you for the update. Rough times, to be sure. All the best!

[@rbaxter286]

The reason the "would disagree" is because they are symbiotic parasites on each other. Hope they both owned a lot to a business organization associated with assorted "Vinnie and Rocco's Collection Agency"s.

[@MsGorteck]

​@@rbaxter286lawyers are whores, whores do what their tricks pay them to do. It is not the shyster who is at fault, it is the owners/executives who do the unethical things and the politicians who make the rules that enable them. I also suspect that they don't live where they poo, so they don't have to see the mess.

[@roylbates4155]

Not surprising, I bought a 16-inch Dobson digital go-to telescope. When I received my order, they had shipped me two 16-inch mirrors with my order. I called and spoke to several people, and nobody could decide how to handle the problem. I'm sure the mirror is one of the most expensive items for this telescope. So now, I have a free back-up 16-inch mirror for the scope.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Congrats on the spare mirror. I'm sure there are a few people out there who would love to buy it.

[@BrianAllenWS]

Wow, sounds like they were already off the rails with a dearth of common sense...

[@timmotel5804]

Sad Loss. Good Day to You. Sad things are happening these days in amateur and amateur+ astronomy. I've been a MEADE fan & buyer since 1995. Presently, I am using my second 10" LX200, this one is a GPS scope with enhanced optics. It's now 14 years old and still going strong. This is my third telescope and I bought them all from "OPT". A Great Store. They Are Missed. COVID not only killed people, but many many businesses also. A good presentation. Thank You

[@AstronomyGarage]

The crazy thing is that amateur astronomy blossomed big time during covid. Other companies like Celestron did great, but Orion fizzled. They made it through the pandemic and then closed. We had a local ice cream shop here (Texas) that we greatly supported to get through the pandemic - the whole community did whatever they could to help them. They survived the pandemic and then when their lease was up, the corporate landlord headquartered in Chicago doubled their rent and put them out of business. It remained empty for some time. Texas is no longer a cheap place to live.

[@allanfifield8256]

"COVID not only killed people, but many many businesses also." It was all so unnecessary.

[@broncoguy4862]

@@allanfifield8256 Yep. How many small businesses closed and how many people suffered due to Anthony Fauci's get-rich-quick scheme?

[@stephencox4224]

I urge people tyo donate to the internet archive to make sure they survive and we still have access to the firmware files people seem to not realise they and many others will only survive if we back them

[@desertdinghy9833]

Grand idea! I post my ship blueprints there so a lifetime of collecting doesn't end up in the trash. Uploading to Internet Archive is easy. Never thought of posting support materials.

[@astrostufftomtrubridge7915]

Really sad news with Orion, especially for people with equipment caught up in this. I often look at my collection of UKs Sky at Night and Astronomy Now mags from the 90s, the line up being Meade, Celestron and Orion, the Orion goto Dobs always caught my eye, as did all the other glossy Meade LX & Celestron kit, but with family and other commitments this was always on hold, until years later, even this being second hand or repaired... I love your big Dob restoration as with all your tinkering. I have a similar mentality with scope/mount repairs, my parents were from the war years, very make do and mend, a valuable asset that I've tried to pass to my twin sons..wishing you well with your projects , loving your videos, Atb Tom...

[@AstronomyGarage]

Thank you for watching the restoration videos. They are a lot of fun to make. I was looking through the old Sky & Telescope magazines and noticed so many ads for Meade. They were everywhere.

[@pauldringus6966]

Dylan at Star Stuff had a video a week or so about Orion going out of business. Another example of how corporations throw loyal long term employees to the curb. No press releases, website shutdowns, email or phone support sounds like management just cut and ran. I hope there is some good news for the employees. With that scenario I am not optimistic. Many years ago I worked for a boat company in New Jersey installing marine electronics. The company shutdown during the Christmas holidays and reopened shortly after the New Year for an annual vacation. When that company went out of business no one knew, we left Dec 23 to enjoy a vacation, when we returned on Jan 3rd the gates were pad locked with armed guards. During our holiday the company had moved with all the equipment to Florida without telling any employees. The guards at the gate handed us a printed memo that said we had 48 hrs to remove our tools. Merry Christmas and happy New Years corporate style. Since then I had very little trust of any employer and began working for myself. It sounds like a bad situation for the man who sent his dob in for repair. I hope somehow something goes right for him.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Oh my, that's a rough experience. I'm glad you were able to bounce back from that!

[@UncleKennysPlace]

OTOH, I was in a company that gave everyone a few weeks notice, and the amount of pilferage was literally felonious. This is a known "thing" that happens, hence the stealth shutdowns. When I worked at a large tech company, you'd not be told if you were being let go until you were out the door, to prevent trashing of IP. People, even good people, can do some crappy things if they feel slighted.

[@pauldringus6966]

@@UncleKennysPlace I guess what you are saying is just let companies screw you over and take it like a good little soldier to cut the company losses. I think companies that do sleazy things to employees deserve what they get when they stab their employees in the back. When you dismiss a single person it's understandable to let them go at the last minute. When you shut the doors without warning and let everyone go that is dishonest and uncaring. The Orion employees came to work one day and realized they had no jobs and possibly no future. They had to go home to their families and explain they had no jobs. But hey at least there was no pilferage! Uncle Kenny try reaching out to the ex Orion employees and see if they share your point of view. During the Plandemic lockdowns I had to lay off a few people. I gave them two weeks pay and my promise to rehire after things became normal. Luckily that wasn't long because I live in Florida where governor DeSantis saw through the Biden administration lies and we got back to work quickly.

[@michellevey9608]

My company recently threw a LOT of us to the curb! I was a fortunate one. I turned 62 at the end of July. I contacted SS, and now I'm done with them! A loyal employee for 33 years. I never thought it would end like this.

[@AstronomyGarage]

@@michellevey9608 I wish I could say this is rare, but unscrupulous companies have been doing this for years. Glad to hear you can retire.

[@timhager9401]

I think that anyone who has equipment tied up at Orion or Meade, they should contact the California Attorney General's office or a private attorney and pursue legal remedies.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I heard from somebody that in a bankruptcy, the team of lawyers from the bank will sometimes try to return property... but Orion hasn't put out any information at all. Was it a bankruptcy? Chapter 11? Chapter 7? Nobody knows.

[@Sabre414]

I have emailed the California Attorney General's office TWICE regarding my expensive Solarmax telescope being held by Meade Instruments - They have not even had the decency to reply by email. Shocking lack of service and due diligence by an official seemingly representing the interests of the people!

[@AstronomyGarage]

That's terrible. I contacted the realtors in charge of the HQ building sale, but they never replied. It's a total information blackout.

[@WilliamBlakers]

​@Sabre414 how well funded are they? People scream about paying too much tax, and then scream when there is a lack of service from government departments. Now I'm not accusing you of this, but we screw ourselves when we defund public services.

[@clou09]

​@@MuzixMaker 🤣

[@alexlang5649]

Wow, that's really sad and unfortunate news!!

[@billwalker9509]

Meade is indeed closed. All their U.S. dealer links are dead except a few who announced Meade's closure and are selling parts and used telescopes only.

[@andywolan]

Sad to see that this is how the company ends. Their customer service was pretty good 18 years ago. Heck, even 10 years ago. Bought my reflector, stand and various eye pieces from them, and got a replacement part from them as well.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I still highly recommend their 8 inch Dobsonian if you can find them used.

[@xunbinggong]

I live in China where orion telescopes were made. Although orion did not officially sail their telescopes here but I still managed to get one. Until recently I found what I have bought was nearly the last batches of it. It still got pretty good optical performance, better than similar scopes from celestron, despite the headquarter shutted down. It is really a sad news and I feel pity about the company and all its employees. Would they sail telescopes here in China where their factories sits they might be away from shutting down. But still, pretty sad news to hear that.

[@AstronomyGarage]

The Orion 8, 10 and 12 inch mirrors are excellent - sad to see them go.

[@robertsonsid]

Amazon Canada is selling Orion Telescopes and shows seller as "just launched", they may be back.

[@David-hm9ic]

Orion lost me as a customer many years ago. I bought an almost new 12" Intelliscope. I wanted a few parts to restore it to fully new condition and was told by the person on the phone that they "don't support second hand owners." I responded by telling him that the maker of my expensive watch maintains their customer base by fully supporting all owners regardless of how many owners the watch had. All because they wouldn't sell some plastic feet for the base to me.

[@AstronomyGarage]

It is truly one of the most bizarre business policies I've ever come across in my lifetime.

[@knarf9335]

Most amateur astronomers upgrade equipment over time which means selling old stuff to pay for new stuff. A lot of enthusiasts won't touch Orion equipment because parts are not available to downstream buyers, making the used market for Orion equipment a money losing bottleneck for amateurs.

[@kerryedavis]

I had the same problem with Gateway Computers in the past, they wouldn't even sell me a replacement KEYBOARD because I wasn't the original buyer with proof-of-purchase. And I mean a plug-in keyboard, not a laptop keyboard!

[@timstoffel4799]

Orion lost an order from me for a 16 inch go-to Dob because they refused to sell me a thumbscrew for another Orion 'scope I own. This is sad, but business practices like this will eventually cause this to happen. Good luck to all the folks who got shafted by this deal.

[@millenialfalcon8243]

I learned to avoid Orion, especially with electronics, after I was given almost no support on a 10yr old 10in dob since I was not the original owner. I was considering buying the 16in go-to, but not after that experience.

[@AstronomyGarage]

All of mine were bought used, so I was out of luck getting spare parts from them. I had to find alternate sources or buy used.

[@millenialfalcon8243]

@@AstronomyGarage Exactly, which to me decreases the value of a used scope. Why buy a used Orion and be worried I can't get a replacement board from them if needed? And why buy a new scope if someday I want to sell it but other buyers will have the same concern. I'd rather buy another brand I knew I could get parts for.

[@millenialfalcon8243]

@@AstronomyGarage Any Intelliscopes I buy in the future, I will be removing ALL the electronics and selling off.

[@jctrame]

I did buy an Orion 120 refractor used a few years ago and I needed a part and when I emailed them I received a rather terse reply to the effect that my name was not in the records and therefore no parts were available to sell. My other comment is I can’t believe no Orion former employees are coming forward to comment. Why be that loyal to a company that screwed you over?

[@AstronomyGarage]

The funny thing about Intelliscopes is that those are much less likely to break. The GoTo motor drives and SynScan handsets were the parts that failed too frequently. Supposedly, you can get a SynScan handset from Skywatcher, but the motor drives are highly proprietary and impossible to replace. When I sold my Orion 14" GoTo, I sold it at a significant discount because one of the motors was acting up a bit. I told the buyer that if it did eventually fail, Orion wouldn't sell him a replacement.

[@crankytrolley]

I have a small Unitron telescope, purchased in the early 1970's. It's a basic model, but has proven to be rugged over the decades. The Unitron brand faded away about 20 years ago or so. Too bad there's fewer and fewer quality manufacturers in the field.

[@grantmartin1852]

I wouldn't say " there's fewer and fewer quality manufacturers in the field". There's a whole LOT of quality instruments and suppliers out here - just at inflation adjusted pricing: Unitrons, Questars, and the like were just as much outside my budget in the 70's, as ED's/APO's/Triplets/Petzvals and the more complex cat configurations are today. In fact, when we look at what was available over the the counter in the 70's, there's a FAR larger diversity of products and much more quality stuff readily available today than there were then. That list of "ED/APO's/Triplets/Petzvals and the more complex cat configurations" I just mentioned? Yeah, in the 70's, half that stuff was just paper wish lists. The other half were onesy/twosies from individuals. Today, it's a damn feast of over the counter options - and I haven't even covered what can be done photographically with the CHEAP stuff. So yeah, have no fear about any kind of "Decline & Fall" of amateur and semi-pro telescopic equipment and accessories, because we haven't seen anything yet :) And FWIW, here's a cool list I found today, enjoy: telescopicwatch.com/brands/

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

@@grantmartin1852 That link does not work as it should.

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

@@grantmartin1852 Unless one is extremely poor, most of those telescopes ARE within range IF one learns to economize in other areas. It isn't as if they cost $millions.

[@briankaras1767]

I have a 10” Parks Superior model that I ordered in 1986. It’s a great scope and I still use it, but a few years ago I wanted to buy some parts for general maintenance. The same thing happened, when I learned that Parks/Scope City went under. I’m glad I didn’t send any payment because their web site was active for a long time after they shut down.

[@flatman5632]

I have a Meade purchased in 1982. Has a solar filter. Still take pictures of sunspots once in a while with a film camera.

[@springbloom5940]

I bought a 4500 in the early 90s, when they still used a parabolic primary. The coating has long since deteriorated, but looking at the prices for a parabolic 4.5" mirror, Ive been thinking about getting it recoated. That scope produced a very nice image. Much better than the spherical primaries that followed.

[@Ben_Stewart]

I love my Orion XT8 Plus. The Blue finish is timeless. Luckily there are many similar parts with other dob manufactures.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Very good point. When Orion wouldn't sell me a replacement part for my focuser, I contacted Skywatcher and they gladly sold me the replacement part. From that point on, I always used the following text in my emails to Orion, "I want to give you money in exchange for a spare part", but they always refused. I figured maybe, one day, they would.

[@williamcecil9945]

I was suspicious about a year ago. I purchased an Orion Atlas mount similar to the Sky Watcher EQ-6 several years ago. Later considered moving up to their largest mount but it was no longer on their website. In fact, the mount I purchased was also deleted. I contacted Orion but never got a response. My concern now is I have a Meade 10" that is only 6 years old. What happens if something goes wrong with it. Back in the 80's I had an issue with my first Meade mount not tracking in RA. Drove up to their headquarters and they gave me a new mount no questions asked. How far they have fallen. Sorry to see how much the industry has collapsed to only a few companies leaving many of us hoping our equipment lasts.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I'll keep my fingers crossed that your 10" Meade stays good. In a worst-case scenario, you could put a Vixen dovetail block on it and mount it on an Alt Az mount like an Explore Scientific Twilight (or an EQ mount).

[@GerryBoardman]

Perhaps it is time pull out that dusty edition of Ingall's Amateur Telescope Making, and innovate our own home-brew rigs like in the old days. Jus' sayin'

[@metatechnologist]

I came here to say this....we're back to making scopes. Is that a bad thing though??🤣

[@bruceprickett9835]

I think I still have my copy somewhere!

[@Slartyfartblarst]

Very sad, especially for the employees and the guy with his 16 inch telescope stuck crated in Orion's warehouse, and anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation. It always struck me that Orion's total lack of support for second users of their products said something about the company. I think it stinks. Orion needs to reach out to their customers who have been left in the lurch.

[@AstronomyGarage]

That policy for not helping secondary owners was official, too. Not just some wild rumor. Can you imagine if Ford refused to sell used parts to used car owners? It's ludicrous and angers people who would otherwise love the brand.

[@dantyler6907]

Just to keep things sparkling clear: there is no Orion telescope company anymore. No employee, no phone support, absolutely NO contact or support!!! Like a preveous poster commented, at least a few higher ups got their golden parachutes. Thousands of others, nothing but pain... Great opportunity to build a replacement company!😮 The faster the better...

[@XShadowAngel]

@@AstronomyGarage Yeah, they bit me with that on a 14" dob. I couldn't give them my receipt from where I bought it, so they wouldn't even sell me replacement parts.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I had the same Orion 14" GoTo Dob. The elevation motor drive would occasionally act a bit funny, so I tried to buy a replacement from Orion. No way. But I kept hounding them. Months later they said they found one in a damaged base in "some corner" of a warehouse. They told me about this the same day I sold that telescope at a big discount because of the motor issue. Talk about poor timing.

[@Sabre414]

It's not limited to the guy with his 16" Dobsonian. Meade Instruments have my double-stacked Solarmax 60 in for servicing. Meade sent me an email July 3 informing me that it was ready for shipment back to me. Due to being away from home, I didn't pick that email up and then heard they went dark on July 9. I also have a box with my name on it waiting to be returned to me, also worth thousands of dollars!

[@hjackson6307]

Wow ,I have 3.5 ,1000 mm Meade refractotor ,and a 10 inch classic Dobsian ,and a 12 inch intelligect scope ,I bought in the early 2000's.The software on the counter still works . it is sad! I feel badly for the people , involved ,employee's ,customer's that lost money and telescopes that were sent there to be fixed ,and stuck there .

[@AstronomyGarage]

Meade has made some classic telescopes. I'm hoping that some entity buys them and puts them right back in business (if they were indeed shut down, we don't know).

[@cwulfe1]

I gave up on Orion in 2022 -2023 where I had an order get delayed and delayed for months. I got email notices once in a while and then nothing. I canceled the order after nearly 8 months of waiting. I got an immediate robot email, "Sorry to hear about your cancellation", but nothing more.

[@schrodingerscat1863]

Looks like you dodged a bullet with that one.

[@barbaraflagg5380]

Me too…My card was in play “waiting till my back ordered item is available.” I hate they had my card on file. This whole thing makes me a bit concerned.

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

@@barbaraflagg5380 "Your privacy is important to us. We would NEVER share your personal information!"

[@lacsa727]

Holy Smokes Batman!! I was these Close 👌 in purchasing a used Orion 10" DOBSONIAN Today 10-13-2024!!! I'm so Glad I saw this. It's so, soooo sad to know the Company Closed Up. I was hoping to buy another telescope(BETTER One) than my 1st cheap one and getting back to Stargazing (The Tsushinshan-Atlas C2023 Comet got me all Sparkled Up 😊 again) Gonna miss Orion Ken's YT videos (watched him grow throughout the years) Thank G for YT. TFS

[@AstronomyGarage]

There's no need to fear buying older Orion Dobs, especially if they check out fine. I have several. However, I would avoid buying any of their equipment that has proprietary electronics in it unless you get an exceptional deal.

[@lacsa727]

@@AstronomyGarage Got it Thanx😉

[@thomasbrown7980]

I have a Meade ETX 125 which I have been using for years. I am bracing for news that I will be unable to get service. I also have Coronado solar binoculars that I used during the latest eclipse. Please keep us up to date. Bad times for those of us in this hobby.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I have my fingers crossed that your telescopes will last a long long time before needing service.

[@kerryedavis]

Even before this news, I was leery of getting anything with "built-in" proprietary electronics, motors, etc. So I got a plain "spotting-scope" style ETX-90 which I could use on any mount - even a GoTo mount - with just a dovetail plate.

[@EdCardinal-MindThump]

I have a 6" Dob, an ST130, and binoculars. I was a regular visitor to the Cupertino store years ago, and the people were always fun to talk to and very helpful. Sorry to see a manufacturer of this price point disappear.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I'm hoping that they come back from the ashes. Orion was good name for a telescope company.

[@whatmattersmost6725]

Agreed, it was sad! The US Law should require a noticed 30 days before and provide full refunds for anyone with orders and customers that had products in their possession. I don't feel bad for the higher management or there owning company, Orion won a huge lawsuit but everything did not go as expected. But for the people working there and customer I feel sad for them as when that large Telescopes retailer OPT closed due to reported poor management?

[@padams7638]

The U.S. federal law has the WARN Act which requires a 60 day notice in advance of a mass layoff or plant closure. The notice must affect more than 50 employees at a given location, or companies that have over 100 employees. I have received a WARN notice on a contract, even though we knew that a new contract was incoming. The law required it; the company followed the law. A few days later, the new contract was issued, and we continued work without interruption. To keep it on topic, I have an Orion telescope.

[@billgaudette5524]

Thank you for a well thought-out and informative analysis of what's been going on! Also...please disable auto-focus on your camera, it was suuuuuper distracting to have the video keep pulsing while it tried to adjust.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Thank you for watching. I use this same camera all the time, but for some reason it was going haywire this time.

[@stevehanson5556]

I'm sorry to hear about Orion telescope.I have many of their products including a telescope from orion Many of my first purchases were from Orion.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I was always a fan of their telescopes. And I loved their Star Seek app. :(

[@kaptkrunchfpv]

Thank you. I was in the market, I wont be buying a Orion from ANYWHERE!

[@AstronomyGarage]

The Orion Dobsonians are still very high quality if you can find a manual one for a good price.

[@alandyer910]

The fact that neither Orion or Meade advertised their wares in recent years, either thru traditional media or social media or via KZbin influencers, is I’m sure one contributor to their demise. Anyone getting into the hobby in the last 4 or 5 years might have never heard of them. But it’s odd no former employees have come forward with more information. Are they under a gag order? If so, the shutdown was organized to some extent by the lawyers. It’s a pity to see the two companies gone as they had some very good products. The Orion Dobs were always excellent.

[@AstronomyGarage]

They were supposedly employee-owned, so it makes me wonder if they were all, by default, under a gag order? I still recommend the 8 inch Dobsonian as a great telescope for anybody.

[@alandyer910]

Or as some have suggested, there is or was a deal in the works for someone, no doubt off-shore, to buy at least some of the assets to continue some products. But most of what Orion sold that was great were rebranded products from Synta or Guan Sheng. But the Coronado solar scopes were somewhat unique and well-respected.

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

No severance pay, then no "gag order." That's how it works.

[@curtisnotestine3134]

This is sad news! I've had my Orion refractor since the early 90's and I purchased a few accessories from Orion since then. I remember Tim working at the store in Watsonville, he was very helpful.

[@TheContrarianThinker]

A very sad day, for the astronomical retail industry. I really feel for anyone who has paid; but not received goods/support. As well as the employees. Wish I could say it was a rare occurrence that people were treated this way. Alas, it is the more obvious route failing companies take: no integrity to look after, especially, the loyal customer. That situation of them refusing support for second hand purchasers would have turned me away from the company, instantly, if I was looking to buy a product they were selling. That's a red flag, for people like me; & I am not surprised the company execs would treat everyone below them, in this manner. Bet the top echelon still got their golden handshake 😒😠! Just look at the number of companies that have traded right up until the last day, with zero expectation of fulfilling the purchase. It should have been outlawed decades ago. This is commonplace, Worldwide. Right across _all_ business sectors. Thanks for bringing this to the attention, of your subs. Word will spread faster, due to this expedited video. And save many a prospective purchaser, from losing out. Cheers 👍👍

[@AstronomyGarage]

Their zero-support for secondary owners was a very unique and terrible business policy. It is great at "losing the hearts and minds" of potential future customers, lol.

[@TheContrarianThinker]

​@@AstronomyGarage Sorry buddy, but it's not unique. I experienced the same problems, with another US company, across the World, in a totally different industry, a few years back. They refused to even allow a non-warranty repair to go-head, by their local reseller, using genuine parts. And, I've heard of a number of people stating similar, in a variety of industries. That's capitalism for you. Mind you; there's nothing better around: only worse. As the World is currently witnessing.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I grew up knowing Orion and Meade telescopes existed and I've used them before. It is unfortunate they have gone out of business. Warranties are only as good as the company remains around to service your equipment. It is also why proprietary systems are so dangerous - basically making your gear worthless overnight.

[@AstronomyGarage]

All very good points. Meade was such a huge company throughout my childhood and beyond - it was very surprising what happened to them.

[@skatetoexplorevideos2477]

I have their 12" inch Dob. Bought it in 2006 at their Watsonville headquarters in California. Great telescope.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I have their 8" Dob and I've owned several 10" Dobs over the years. They are wonderful telescopes.

[@gsmollin2]

I was eyeing a Coronado scope when this happened. I'm sorry to see it, and glad I didn't make a buy.

[@AstronomyGarage]

You got very lucky. It's a real shame about Coronado because they made really good equipment.

[@adamchurvis1]

7:45 Have your friend get in touch with the Bankruptcy Steward for the Orion bankruptcy and be prepared with every scrap of relevant paperwork / electronic receipts / communications. Make sure he has his claim ready in two different forms: "I just want my property back" and an alternate in the form of "It will cost me THIS much to replace it with an equivalent" and make sure he doesn't go treasure hunting with that replacement cost. And do it quick, like in today.

[@flashoflight8160]

Next to zero chance you are getting the equipment back unless the company will emerge from a chapter 11 reorg instead of a chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcy. The trustee will hire a liquidator to sell the assets and the liquidator is not going to care because they are selling for the maximum possible to max the commission rather than give back your equipment for zero compensation. You'll end up with a pro-rata share of anything left over after expenses as an unsecured creditor. You're unsecured because you did not perfect a lien on the equipment with the debtor.

[@adamchurvis1]

@@flashoflight8160 Very well said, sir.

[@stickinthemud23]

@@flashoflight8160 while I am pretty sure your predicted result is correct, the only lien the bankrupt would have in this situation is what used to be called the garageman’s lien. And that is the only property interest they have, meaning the trustee can’t sell it. It’s not the bankrupt’s property.

[@DrewNorthup]

​@@flashoflight8160 You cannot sell stolen property-and dishonestly received Service RMAs have been ruled stolen property thousands of times. Anyone who tries to get around that is risking years of hard jail time.

[@Tugela60]

​@@stickinthemud23They don't have to send it back to you either, and if you don't come and collect it, they will auction it off as abandoned.

[@CyclingOffToSomewhereIDK]

Boy, I'm glad I got my Orion reflector before they shut down. I suppose I've had it about a year now. What made me choose Orion? It got good reviews.. I borrowed the little tyke from a local library after having seen a review on it, loved it, then ended up with a Space Probe 130. It's proving to be quite the awesome scope for a beginner (me). I also recently replaced my dslr camera with an awesome ebay find, which contained a adapter ring. It works wonders over trying to tie my smartphone to the focuser (I saw the smartphone mounts on the wall behind you😁). It's sad to hear they're gone now though. I hope this is the last telescope I'll need to buy. With my limited space it's perfect for me. Good info, very informative video. Thanks for putting this out there.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Since it's a mechanical telescope, you'll probably be good for many many years before needing any service.

[@PekoeBrew-gr4cr]

Yes very sad, and something of a dilemma for me. Using Orion Dobs, I do a lot of outreach at local schools and on observatory deck. People love the view of the Wild Duck Cluster, and ask "Where can I get a telescope like this?" "Er.. um.. well, you can't actually buy these anymore, but you might find one used." I recommended an Apertura scope, but really shouldn't since I've never actually used one. Thought I was doing great free advertising for Orion, but apparently it wasn't good enough :-(

[@AstronomyGarage]

That is an issue. The Orion 8 Inch Dob was always what I recommended to newcomers. I have a Zhumell which seems to be a clone of the Apertura. The Aperturas are very nice (nicer than the Orion's). Pricier too. I think Skywatchers Orion's are a bit easier on the wallet, but I've never used one of those.

[@PekoeBrew-gr4cr]

@@AstronomyGarage do you like the azimuth ball bearing on the Zhumell? I've heard that it spins much too easy.

[@AstronomyGarage]

@@PekoeBrew-gr4cr Funny that you mention that. It does spin a little bit to easily. Not for me, a "seasoned user", but anybody new to the hobby. When they put their eye against it, it tends to rotate. You can tighten the central azimuth knob, but that doesn't make too much of a difference. It might be interesting to invent a "brake system" for it.

[@lawrencegarrett2278]

In 2016 I came into a free Orion 6" XT6, when a friend of mine bought a house and it was left behind. I saw him leaving one day at work as he was talking it to the dump, and he gave it to me, a rescue telescope! It needed one piece to support the spider, and I went shopping for parts, to find as well, only original owners could purchase them. I fixed the scope with another thumb knob, but did talk to a parts dealer. I can't remember who I talked to (astro-physics?) but they were just as upset as were the parts seekers sitting on 100's of parts in stock they could not sell, as just about everyone who walked in the door were not the original owners. The guy was upset into a rage really, he told to toss the telescope out the window, (right, it cost $1 to fix) Seems to me people need to find who the parts dealers were and see if they are indeed no longer bound under contract and can sell to anyone. They might be waiting for court ruling for all we know. The XT6 was a perfect fit into my telescope family, with 90mm ETX (3 of them) a C-8, and 12.5" dob. Truly a gem hiding in plain sight.

[@AstronomyGarage]

That's an amazing story and reiterates what a wildly bizarre customer policy Orion had. One that quite literally lost the hearts and minds of potential future customers. I tried to find an independent source for the GoTo drive motors, but I failed in my attempts. The XT series of Orion Dobsonians are simply fantastic - I have an XT8 and an XT8 Intellisope (no motor drives, just encoders).

[@truthenema245]

I remember Ken . He and I go back 30 years ( if it's the same Ken ) . I was known as Telescope Jeff to them ( There used to be wonderful guy named Marshal working there as well ). I also had a 16 inch DSE and got my photo on the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle when we set up on Crissy Field to view comet Hyakataki the night it made it's closest approach to earth . There were at least 15 people lined up behind my telescope to have a view. You could actually see the comet change positions if you viewed for about 2 minutes. The next day I got a call from Orion notifying me I had made the paper with my 16 inch . Good days for astronomy!

[@AstronomyGarage]

Hello Telescope Jeff! That's a great story about the Chronicle. You should try to contact Ken to see what's happening.

[@truthenema245]

@@AstronomyGarage Yeah. This was when they had an outlet in San Francisco. And I bumped in to Ken several times at a dark sky site near Livermore,CA called Digger Pines. In fact we were both there the night before comet Hale Bopp made it's closest earth approach. I met Ken when he had hair ! I have no way to contact Ken now that Orion is closed. Can you point me in the right direction to reestablish contact with him? Also the mirrors in my 10 inch need resurfaced. Do you know of anyone in the Sacramento,CA area who could do that ? Also I 'm totally impressed with your telescope videos.

[@truthenema245]

@@AstronomyGarage Orion displayed that photo in both their San Francisco outlet and their San Jose outlet for a long time. We 're talking back in the early 90's.

[@ChrisTurchin]

Yeah Ken helped me out finding back focus on my DSI IV, friendly and helpful man. unfortunately that was not the main problem with the camera, as I learned when I bought a 294mc pro and it just worked. I basically wasted over a year thinking it was me, and AP is hard, but in retrospect that camera just didn't work at all.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Thank you for the kind words - I appreciate you watching the videos. I send all my mirror re-coating work to Jeff Decker at Majestic Optical Coatings in Ruckersville, Virginia. He does great work and he's very fast.

[@josephnaja]

I'm just glad/grateful that I had the presence of mind to purchase the last Tru-Trac dual axis motor drive that they had in stock to fit my SkyView Pro mount before they went belly up, I purchased one of the last 8 inch reflectors for my equatorial mount and I count myself lucky that I didn't get burned like so many others. What a horrible greedy thing to do to people!

[@AstronomyGarage]

It sounds like you had perfect timing for sure!

[@josephnaja]

@@AstronomyGarage Definitely, and thanks for the info

[@tedwalford7615]

Wow. HOW did KZbin know I needed to see this??? I've never watched a video about telescopes! As it happens, my daughter has a Meade needing repair. -- Oh: I know! Google owns KZbin, and they watch my searches! Well, in this case that was helpful. - And you're most helpful; thank you!

[@billsimpson604]

As soon as AI really gets going, we will be targeted with ads catering to our individual interests. That is a main reason why big companies like META are spending so much money developing it.

[@ShootingOrion]

@@billsimpson604 We already are. They are called "personalized ads" and they have been around for many years

[@AstronomyGarage]

Thank you for watching and I hope you can get your Meade fixed to your satisfaction. Clear skies!

[@markwiygul6356]

I have an Orion 10" Intelliscope and many accessories. Plus some other lesser things from them, including a lower end reflector and 100mm achromatic refactor. Back in the day when I purchased things from them, you got competitively priced high quality merchandise compared to "department store" scopes. The problem is that there are ZERO department store scopes to compete against nowadays. Malls have closed, Sears has closed. Does Walmart sell telescopes now? Not sure. At any rate, they became the low end scopes. And that was a huge problem because their customer base always considered them to be higher quality that what you'd get for the same price at Sears, or whatever "department store" was selling scopes. Yes Orion had nice scopes, but my first was from Sears, a Tasco 60mm 525x telescope, used as a kid . . . and I used that more than any other, despite it being lower quality. and yes it did wobble a lot, and no it didn't go up to 525x (unless you count looking at a puffy fluff of light at 525x to be legitimate magnification) but I saw tons of cool stuff with it at around 125x, and was more amazed with it than any other

[@AstronomyGarage]

Generally speaking, any refractor made in Japan in the 1980's is probably going to have great lenses, regardless of who re-branded it. Nowadays, the cheap short refractors are not very good. I think many of them even have plastic lenses?

[@theoldar]

I've been in the hobby for over 50 years. I've seen its glory days and its long slow decline. So many of the mainstays are gone now. How much longer will we even have S&T and Astronomy magazines?

[@AstronomyGarage]

Good question. I'm glad that Astronomy magazine (at least) hasn't gone to digital only.

[@WilliamBlakers]

@theoldar us Aussies lost our Australian version of Sky and Telescope last year. It went to digital only without announcing that in the last print version, but sent subscribers an email about it. Apparently they got one e edition and then nothing. At one stage we had at least two wholly Australian astronomy mags to choose from,now none. Still getting UK mags and Astronomy mag in local newsagents. Perhaps they will restock the US Sky and Telescope. But this is a sad tale affecting many hobbies, we have also lost all our local reptile magazines. I'm sure people knowledgeable in other hobbies know of similar losses.

[@MrGp3po]

We are living some NEW glory days with some fabulous scopes and equipment available to amateurs. William Optics, Svbony, ZWO, Askar, AstroTech, and Explore Scientific, to name a few, have replaced Meade and Orion.

[@WilliamBlakers]

@@MrGp3po that is true. And perhaps the demise of Meade and Orion are just the normal extinctions that occur over time and I'm only taking note as they are names that have been with me over my entire life ( Meade especially, not so much Orion). But I do hope that the chaos that the pandemic created isn't being used by some big boys to "do in" the competition ( through restricting supply of components, favouring some brands over others) that will eventually give rise to a less diverse market.

[@theoldar]

@@MrGp3po There is very little out there for beginners, or for people that only want to look, not take images. It's clear that it is becoming a hobby that is aimed at older people with money.

[@robertmontgomery3892]

Watsonville? Not to worry there are lots of jobs picking vegetables in the nearby fields. I understand that that state now requires the growers to supply water/shade and even porta-potties. So they will be just fine.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Porta-potties and places to wash hands helps everything in that situation.

[@BigDuke6ixx]

I think the SeeStar and the Dwarf smartscopes are now the entry point for beginners, which is hitting the sale of optical scopes.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Dobsonians used to be a mid-level entry point and were supposed to be "simple and cheap", but when the smart telescopes started undercutting the skyrocketing $700 Dobsonian prices, it may have spelled trouble.

[@10intexas]

Quite a few members or our astronomy club have Seestar 50's and one now has the new $4000 Celestron Origin. Still, each would still tell someone interested in astronomy to buy a used dob or SCT as an entry point to the hobby. The majority of them purchased Seestars as a new toy and we have them running at our star parties. The kids (and adults) at the star parties are impressed by the images but the biggest ooohs and aaahs we get are still when the light from Saturn, Jupiter or a double star like Albireo strikes their retinas via an eyepiece on a "real" telescope. After all, if you want to see a pretty picture of Jupiter just do an internet search and click on the image. There is just something about seeing an object in space with your own eyes and no $499 Seestar (used as low as $350 on Cloudy Nights) electronic "telescope" is ever going to take that place.

[@BigDuke6ixx]

@@AstronomyGarage yeah, breathtaking images you can share on social media for 2/3 of the price, versus the rather underwhelming experience must beginners end up using with visual astronomy. And then there’s the portability aspect.

[@jonathanhansen3709]

This is why I never recommend newbies get electronics or go-to mounts. Besides what I’ve seen as common malfunction, when these companies go out of business, there is no longer any support for the equipment. Much better to get yourself a scope that you manually find the object you’re looking for, and learn the sky!

[@AstronomyGarage]

In the past when I sold any big GoTo Dobsonians, I would have to educate people new to the hobby and explain that these are probably not the best beginner telescopes for them. A good manual Dob is ideal.

[@jwg9338]

I knew something was amiss a few months ago when i saw multiple items on sale for 15-30%off, even though i know those particular items don't have that kind of margin

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

It certainly cuts down on your loss if you only had to give them 70%.

[@williama.leyrer3839]

Too Bad, So Sad!! I also should have gotten a hint that something was amiss a few months back. We hold an annual Star Party at my technology center specifically geared toward folks new to observational astronomy and those interested in possibly new telescope purchases. Obviously, Orion is always the beginner recomendation (after binoculars). Anyway, in the past Orion was always eager to provide hand-out materials that we would pass on the our budding newbies. However, this year after our usual request for the hand-out materials Orion responded (via e-mail) that it is not Orion's policy to provide hand-out materials, catalogs or brocheurs. Like I said, I should have recognized something was amiss. So sorry to those - both employees and customers - who were cought up in this dispicable exit strategy chosen by Orion!!

[@AstronomyGarage]

The response you got from Orion was eerily similar to the one I got. Maybe the directors did know what was coming?

[@DavidMFChapman]

When a company like that goes bankrupt, customers who have gear in for repair or have paid for undelivered products are in an unfortunate position. They end up joint a long, long line of creditors. They need to make a documented claim and be prepared to settle for a fraction of the amount.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I've heard of something like this happening at an auto repair shop too - losing a car would be tragic.

[@AirDOGGe]

We had an Orion store in town in the 1970s and I think part of the 1980s. The last store I saw was in Santa Cruz, California. Now they can keep Radio Shack, Toys R Us and all of the other "good" stores that closed their doors company. Nothing left but Targets and Wal marts.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I've never actually seen a telescope store of any type.

[@abelflexes2]

I always preferred Orion over celestron, damn what a shocker and sad loss 😢

[@anata5127]

Both are crap. Both companies needed to develop manufacturing in the US, and stop reselling oversee crap.

[@PekoeBrew-gr4cr]

@@anata5127 Not crap at all. If you can figure a way for US made scopes to compete on price and quality, I'd be all for it.

[@fiendishthingy1630]

I preferred Orion over Celestron also. Their quality seemed to be a skosh better than Celestron.

[@daveh5204]

Its not like our Orion telescopes have just stopped working. I intend to continue enjoying mine forever. We now also have the J Webb images that, quite frankly, are nothing short of mind blowing. The worst part of this story is the private equity issue and the unfortunate downside that these company’s former employees will face. Another example of the greed that infects our society. Bastards..

[@AstronomyGarage]

Yes. Any manual Orion should last a few decades more of properly taken care of. Unfortunately, the electric ones will fail at some point. It does seem that the employees always get the worst end of things.

[@SDNoel73]

Have the dude with the crated up scope contact the commercial property realtor that's handling the sale of the building. Maybe they'll let him get inside to look for his crated scope?

[@AstronomyGarage]

I actually tried that. I wrote to the realty company and they never responded.

[@harryniedecken5321]

Depends if they just closed or are in bankruptcy. Only a bankruptcy judge or the assigned can distribute the items and money legally. Going against this is considered theft. Not an expert at all but have been a creditor in the past. Judges and lawyers in these cases are pretty logical and direct.

[@robertsonsid]

Apparently from stories on social media there a lot of people who sent scopes for repairs and never heard back from Orion. Also, people have ordered equipment and never received them.

[@lucerorivera3510]

Hello! This is a very nice and interesting information I really would like to see, but there is a little periodic zooming in and out that doesn't allow me to continue viewing the video. If that was on purpose, it's a pity, because it prevented me to see the full video. Best regards.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I am sorry for that. My camera had a problem with one of the settings.

[@lucerorivera3510]

​@@AstronomyGarage Thank you for understanding and caring. My real problem is that I have to read to fully understand, otherwise I would raise the volume and would not have to look at the video at all. Best regards. Update: I actuality finished the video by covering most of the screen with my hand, and pausing and going back a little at a time (yeah, it sounds ridiculous, but that's me 😁🤷‍♂️). Finally I liked and subscribed with all messages. Again, thank you for caring.

[@kennethbrack4061]

Orion 10 inch dob reflector was my first and only purchased telescope. Enjoyed using it for 25 years and finally sold it to a lady who was enthusiastic about owning her first 'big' telescope. Sorry to hear of their demise. Since I sold the Orion I have been building my own rich field reflector telescopes. Smaller mirrors but a lot easier for this senior citizen to handle.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Rich field telescopes are a cool concept - they aren't going for magnification, but instead low magnification on a wide view (capturing lots of light). I think the Astroscan was one of the first commercial scopes to market to that.

[@rael5469]

My 6" Dob is from their store in Cupertino. Fabulous store.....I'm sure many of you know. A dream fulfilled.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I've never actually seen a telescope store. Must've been a cool experience.

[@rael5469]

@@AstronomyGarage Oh yes. It's like the best Ace Hardware you've ever been in.....only for Telescopes.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Check out the pinned comment at the top of this comment stack. It's from the old manager of the Cupertino store.

[@roberthigaki2282]

I live in Watsonville. One day, I drove by as I was heading to a local bakery. The place was "dead" looking. Parking lot was empty. Store front was closed. Too bad as I have bought a bunch of stuff from them at the store.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Was this recently? Does the building still have an Orion sign on it?

[@roberthigaki2282]

@@AstronomyGarage I drove by there at the end of July. I think the sign is gone but I will take a second look as I have errands to run, and I will swing by there. I may make a video since I have my own channel.

[@roberthigaki2282]

I just made a terrible video of the place. I am not much of a videographer. In fact, I hate making videos, but I do have a channel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/baTSpnaXh62Unqs

[@jamesharford9788]

I drove down from sunnyvale July 30 and found the same. There was a Notice of Default taped to the door for a lease payment of $16,300 due June 13. It was dated July 27. I photographed it. :(

[@AstronomyGarage]

@@jamesharford9788 Oh my! You are the first person I've heard from who has visual evidence. Please post it to CloudyNights if you can. Or feel free to email it to me: JJDreese @ yahoo dot com (no spaces).

[@4280blkpowder]

I guess that answers Meades statement after they sued Celestron over “align north” in the 1990s when they said “ may the best company win “

[@DanWipper]

Sad to see the old names die, ones that were leading the industry awhile back. But I was hearing rumors about Mead quite a few years ago a bit surprised they're not gone already.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I hope that some wealthy entity can salvage the company and keep it growing.

[@TheContrarianThinker]

I agree. Back in the 1970s, when I was a kid, growing up, on the other side of the World, I was interested astronomy. Companies like Meade & Cave were at the forefront of retail astronomy. I still have their catalogues. Amazing how both the science; as well as the pricing have increased. Very sad day, for the whole industry.

[@SG-eb4uw]

Im sure there will be some chinese company intrested in the name rights.. sadly

[@AstronomyGarage]

I would like to buy the website name (telescope.com), but apparently my $500 offer is short of their $525k asking price, lol.

[@Peter-pb8jg]

@@TheContrarianThinker I bought a Cave 6" when I was 13. Took all of my savings but was worth it.

[@dodgeguy232]

Sad to hear. Thanks for the information. BTW, did anyone else feel bad for John having to work in a literal sweat shop?! Yeah, I'm that guy that notices stuff in the background. Like the thermometer on the wall. 90 degrees! Good thing this was only 9 minutes long, otherwise his shirt would have been more of a wet mess!! ;-)

[@AstronomyGarage]

In the previous telescope restoration series, it was so hot and humid that my forehead dripped sweat onto the already cleaned mirror... so I had to clean it again (I didn't put that in the video, lol).

[@lawrencewild2523]

I don't know if it will help, but I would contact the California Attorney Generals office if you sent them your equipment for repair. You will need to file a claim with the Bankruptcy trustee's office as well to get your property back. I assume there is a Chapter 7 filing either currently or pending.

[@AstronomyGarage]

The people I know with equipment stuck at the warehouse have told me that the state AG's office isn't responding, but the Santa Cruz County (where Watsonville is) district attorney's office is responding.

[@Robert08010]

Orion's demise does not surprise me. I foolishly bought an Orion 8" dob used but in v.g. condition for $100 but with NO base. At the time - 2018 or so - I had no idea Orion refused to even consider selling replacement parts. I contacted them, and they said NO. So THAT was why the guy selling the optical tube sold it so cheap. He had already tried to replace the base and knew you couldn't. That was my introduction and fair well swan song to Orion. Meade on the other hand; that does surprise and dismay me. I own a Meade and my club owns 2 larger Meades. They are all great devices that have already lasted many years and will continue to be usable for the next 20+ I hope. But not having access to replacement parts is very concerning.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I've recently found out from former employees that Orion's policy against selling spare parts to second-hand customers was due to the fact that they didn't generally have any spare parts. Since they didn't make many of their top models, they didn't have access to the constituent parts suppliers. Rather than say that, they just said, "We won't support you." What a PR blunder. I honestly think that Meade's demise was only because it was owned by Orion (or its' parent company). Meade was EVERYWHERE the past several decades, selling quality gear. By the way, if your Meade breaks, check out this guys fixit page: www.weasner.com/etx/menu.html

[@louisxiiii]

I had heard about Orion's policy of not supporting second-hand owners with parts, although I believe they would be very good to original owners of their gear. When I decided to get a grab-n-go for when I didn't want to lug a big reflector out, I decided on a 120 achro. Both Orion and Skywatcher sold them, with Orion having the better mount. But the no-support issue bothered me, even though I was buying new. I called Celestron, and they said they would sell parts to anyone who owned their telescopes, so I went with them. I was going to send a letter to Orion, with copies of the receipt, and tell them why I chose the Skywatcher over their scope, but never got around to it.

[@user-vb6lq9il5v]

@@louisxiiii My policy is not to tell random businesses what they are doing wrong. That's what they pay consultants to do for them.

[@springbloom5940]

Now you'll just have to buy the Chinese instrument that Orion rebranded 🙄 Zhumell for example, is almost the same scopes. They use the exact same optical train, with some different hardware. They don't have analogs for all the Orion models, but close enough. All of Orion's optics, as are most of Celestron's midrange and lower, are made by one of two optics mfrs in China. Which is likely the largest contriting factor to their demise, as its hard for a rebrand to compete with the OEM. Most of Orion's eyepieces are available at 1/3 - 2/3 the price, as 'UNBRANDED' or Svbony(or any number of weird one off brands). Other brands are a little more challenging to source the OEM because they have more substantial cosmetic differences, but the Orion pieces are often plainly obvious; such as the Expanse, Sirius Plossl and EF Widefield. Some do use cheaper or different AR coating, or simple anodized aluminum barrels, etc. But, the point is, if you just liked their offering of instruments, the world has not ended.

[@RichardM0]

Just called Orion about my xx16 g about an issue with my Alt works partially.

[@martinhaub6828]

With all the interest in the JWST, the appeal of movies like Interstellar and Star Trek, I'd like to think that public participation in anything space related would be booming. It's not the case, sorry to say. I have my Orion 8" reflector and it's been wonderful. Hope I never need replacement parts.

[@AstronomyGarage]

The Orion 8 inch Dob is pretty robust (I have one). It should last for decades.

[@craigsawyer6453]

Very sad, perhaps Orion sees a future where enthusiast will build from kits and perhaps use 3D print parts to keep the cost down??? Hard to know where things are going.

[@TheContrarianThinker]

That would be a return to the 1970s, & earlier, when it was commonplace to build from bought parts; and/or make your own. Like grinding your own mirror from a blank kit. As a kid, I was captivated by all this, living on the other side of the World. American companies like A. Jaegers & Edmund Scientific were renowned for this. Now, I would imagine, they would be Chinese. I still have the catalogues.

[@joewoodchuck3824]

I've always liked Celestron. I would buy another if I needed another scope.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Celestron makes good stuff.

[@ericfrizzell2450]

It is sad! But the bright side of this is I appreciate my Orion equipment more now. And I'm thankful I have what I have from them. Do you think orion gear will become more valuable now? Clear skies!

[@AstronomyGarage]

Great question. I still have several Orion telescopes. I predict that there won't be an value changes in manual telescopes, but Orion electronic telescope values will dwindle to nothing as they all eventually will need spare parts that don't exist.

[@tuunaes]

Manual Dobson are standard stuff you can get from GSO and Synta. Non-manual scopes again have even less chances for getting spare parts if something breaks.

[@SUNRISE-ADVENTURES]

First time viewer, like your work, got my sub.. Please... lock your focus! Rock on!!

[@CC58]

Orion's policy was not to sell any parts to second owners. I learned the hard way.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Same here. Many times. I figured at some point, they would... but they didn't. However, I was able to buy spare parts for my Orion telescopes from Skywatcher. Skywatcher has great customer support.

[@awhitestl]

Some folks, myself included, bought from other vendors because of Orion's foolish policy.

[@CC58]

@@awhitestl I never bought Orion again. Maybe their policy is why they went out of business.

[@ian408]

I guess I’m not too surprised by this. I bought a 14” LX200 and it took forever to get. It finally arrived and not too long afterward, OPT went wheels up. Finding accessories, like the wedge, was a PITA too. For a time, I thought it might have more to do with manufacturing and maybe it did? But I have a sneaking suspicion this was a long time coming and I’m sure the decision to close the doors was made to avoid dealing with creditors and others. What was also interesting is Orion’s purchase by Imaginova and subsequent re-purchase by employees. And Orion’s purchase of Meade in 2021 from a BK sale-there were issues surrounding that too. Seems like there’s a lot to unwind. Also looks like Tim Gieseler’s LinkedIn page has been removed. Nothing like feeling a lot less supported for such an expensive purchase

[@timothy8428]

14". Yeah I'd like to watch you wrangling that onto the wedge.

[@ian408]

@@timothy8428 You just pick it up and put it on. Not really a “portable” rig tho.

[@imnotbuddha]

My name is Jim Parsons and I was the assistant manager at the Cupertino store in the 90s. I am so sad to hear this. It was such a big part of my life to bring this hobby (addiction) to the public and see them grow in love with it. The memories will be with me forever. I will remember so many of you and i hope you still look up every clear night.

[@AstronomyGarage]

Hi Jim, thank you for the comment. I've heard from several folks who had very nice things to say about the Cupertino store. I've never been to a telescope store, so I would've loved to have visited. Take care.

[@rael5469]

"My name is Jim Parsons and I was the assistant manager at the Cupertino store in the 90s. " Thanks for selling me the 6" Deep Space Explorer. I still have it.....of course.

[@MrGp3po]

Thanks Jim. I have the Orion 10” Dobsonian and an ED80 on a Sirius mount. Wonderful scopes and great fun. I still think fondly of Orion and the good people there.

[@TinkeringJohn]

That’s funny. Jim Parsons played Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory.

[@imnotbuddha]

Yeah. You want to guess what my degree is in?

[@SuperVorticon]

I've never had any issues dealing with Orion in the past and a large part of my astronomy equipment comes from them, including my well loved XTg 8" dobs. That said, I have not purchased anything from them for the past 5 or 6 years, so I'm really saddened to hear of their decline and ultimate shutdown.

[@ISO8Legionaire]

I just bought two telescopes from them right before they closed. (new to the hobby) I'm hoping it wasn't the wrong decision

[@AstronomyGarage]

You're probably okay, especially if they are non-computerized. That's what many of the service calls involved.

[@ISO8Legionaire]

@@AstronomyGarage Got a 6" and 8" dob. Hopefully I wont need replacement parts

[@billsimpson604]

@@ISO8Legionaire Be sure to show people the Moon, Jupiter, and Saturn.

[@jmd1743]

I worked at a restaurant, one day I found the doors locked, nobody said any thing to me. I wish I took pictures of the dip recipe.

[@cliveroberts415]

Wasn't most of their scopes and mounts just rebadged synta or GSO?

[@RadiantHeartCoaching]

It is the other way around. i developed the XT 10, Synta made it and then started making their own line of Dobsonians.

[@weegieb]

My first scope a 120mm refractory was an Orion. I have several scopes and bits and pieces from them. Had an atlas mount for more than 15 yrs till I finally sold it. My last buy was their large eyepiece storage box. Glad I got it. As far as I know nobody else sells one and I wanted onr for years.

[@FredDelgado-elunico]

MEADE factory in Tijuana, Mexico is defunct, completely gone, no forwarding

[@AstronomyGarage]

Is it shut down completely? No employees coming or going? As in... lights out?

[@FredDelgado-elunico]

yep, more than 6 mos now

[@commandosolo_193]

@@AstronomyGarage it's gone gone gone about 6 months like the other guy said.

[@armandomercado2248]

Sorry to hear. Our club ordered a replacement main board for a LX200 16" telescope in April 2024. Orion service said the board would be coming from their factory in Tijuana when complete. Sounds like we got it just before the shut down.

[@jhaywood5810]

Wondering if the firmware can be opensourced...

[@moone27]

Really sad to see such iconic brands fade away, and I wonder if it is indicative of the state of amateur astronomy. Maybe it was just poor management or something else, but with all of the people jumping on the smart telescope bandwagon or wanting to get into astrophotography, maybe the demand for visual scopes has diminished.

[@sandragayle7866]

No they haven't and will not. Because that ai scope can't do a 3th of what a real telescope can do. It does the work so what are you really learning? Nothing! because you see only what's in it's data based. Get real!

[@miguelservetus9534]

@@sandragayle7866I think you over reacted to the post. They were offering an explanation for an observed phenomenon, neither agreeing or supporting.

[@jesselomas8626]

Asset stripped...

[@fiendishthingy1630]

@@sandragayle7866 - "can't do a 3th..."??? Did you pronounce that when you typed it?

[@WayneScott-w7z]

Clearly the CEO and other top brass of Orion telescopes should be ashamed of themselves for treating customers this way, after all it's the customer who has put these people where they are, nice house, car(s) and lifestyle and big fat bank accounts. Honestly, those guys need a rocket and brought to an account for what they have done. I have never felt with Orion telescopes US but had I and had the same problem as others now have, I guess I would be absolutely livid so I can only but feel for people, especially the guy who has the 16" GOTO tucked away in the Orion warehouse.

[@terrygreen9745]

Amazon still shows Orion products for sale. I doubt any are being filled since i ordered on july 22 and my order was cancelled on aug 5.

[@AstronomyGarage]

I'm sorry to hear that. Most of the links that I used to send to people now say things like "Not currently available." It's possible that some remaining inventory is still in the Amazon warehouses.

[@terrygreen9745]

@@AstronomyGarage just looked and it says no featured options available. Been a few days since I looked.

[@bill5982]

I was looking on Amazon for a Meade adapter for an old Mak I bought used. In July I went to the Meade website to find it gone. I found out on the internet that the Orion and Meade were out of business. I immediately informed Amazon. I just now looked up Orion products on Amazon. The majority of products say this: "No featured offers available" A few have something like: "Only 6 left in stock - order soon." which probably represents what is left in Amazon's warehouse. Fortunately I found the Meade adapter I needed on eBay bundled with a camera adapter for a camera I don't have. The Mak adapter worked and the camera adapter will go back on eBay by itself.

[@garylawson5381]

I bought a 10" Newtonian with a big German equatorial mount around 2005. The fast speed slewing gear stripped a few years ago, although the rest of the mount and telescope still work beautifully. I was hoping to send the mount back in the near future to get the gears fixed. I guess that is no longer possible. What a shame, I always liked Orion Telescopes and Binoculars. Oh well!!!!;

[@AstronomyGarage]

Sorry to hear that. With the 3D printing revolution, would that be an option?

[@heven729]

My astronomy club received an Orion Monster Parallelogram Mount from Orion in 2016 as a donation. This donation was given away as a door prize during our banquet and I was the lucky winner. The center support shaft from the parallelogram mount was missing. This is the most crucial part of this setup as it holds the parallelogram mount on the tripod. Without it, it’s unusable. I contacted Orion and asked if there was a way I could purchase a spare center support shaft from them. They stated that since I didn’t have proof of purchase, they could not sell me one. Even after I explained they had donated this to my club and this is why I didn’t have any proof of purchase or receipt, they still refused to sell me that spare part. I ended up using a long 3/8 bolt to remedy the situation until I finally came across a spare center support shaft from an old tripod that wasn’t being used. My Monster Parallelogram Mount is by far my most used astronomy equipment, I mount 25x100 binoculars on it.

[@tooter5250]

A great mount. I have one with 10 x 70s. Hmm, did not dawn on me until reading your post, but any support for that mount is gone.

[@heven729]

@@tooter5250 10x70 are awesome. I have 15x70’s too, so very similar to yours. But yes, we no longer have any support (along with other Orion equipment owners).

[@and3583]

I strongly suggest that people buy basic telescopes that don't require ongoing support, it's a sad state of affairs but the truth is, even the most apparently reliable companies can suddenly disappear. I use a Tal telescope, I have no idea if they're even still trading, but there's nothing in the scope that's going to stop working.

[@AstronomyGarage]

It's safe to say that buying a manually-driven telescope will always be the safest path. I have a used Intes Max-Cass. I'm pretty sure I'm on my own if that ever breaks.