Orphan OTTB

[@lauraduncan8666]

One of the many things I have learned from you and Robert is 1) how to relax when my mare starts acting up and telling me, 'no I don't want to' and just ride it out and 2) not to over-correct. She is an introvert and over-correction can often just pump the adrenaline even more. Thank you for teaching me that! The other thing I know from watching your videos consistently is that you take excellent care of the horses in your charge. I never doubt that you have examined all the possibilities of bad behavior before you decide it's just them saying no. People who criticize you have not watched you enough. If I was in your area and needed help, I would not hesitate to put a horse of mine in your care

[@finngamesknudson1457]

Yeah - I’d go to him to get me trained. Horse may need a little, but his issues largely come from me.

[@kellydelima9210]

Have 2 orphans and the first one, a stallion , had a real problem with respect at first and would have tantrums in hand. I refused to fight with him , just quietly insisted he did what I asked and by the time it came to ride him he was mostly fine, just a pita if strange horses were around and he would rather be playing with them not me! I used the same technique of quiet insistence and upping the pressure or difficulty of request if he argued badly and tho as in hand it took a while, he eventually realised it was easier to just do as I wanted. He is now an advanced medium dressage stallion. He likes learning complex moves like flying changes on cue. He also enjoys fun hacks where he gets to go for long canters and occasional gallops. My second orphan was more evasive than argumentative. He only avoided things if he found them scary. A sweetheart in comparison. I rewarded each little step towards compliance and ignored or redirected avoidance before asking again. Again I tried to avoid engaging in a disagreement because orphans don't see humans as dominant predators and themselves as submissive prey. They think as equals and disagreements can go on and on..... it took time again but he now hacks out nicely and is working at novice level in dressage. He is a nice gelding and is very keen to please me because when he does he gets a rub or a treat and at other times , tho he might get a rub, he definitely doesn't get treats! The stallion was trained completely without treats as he thought nothing of taking food off other horses and humans alike when I first got him. Even he is now very polite around food. Orphans are a bit special and need a lot of understanding if u are to progress with them. The methods used here make good orphan sense.

[@DenaGilbert-hq5uf]

Love your training methods. You are a no nonsense, common sense type of trainer and always put safety and the horse first.

[@rutherose23]

It’s like Frankie fought and resisted then realized Robert wasn’t giving up and he finally gave in.

[@octoberjubilee9866]

Tim, I enjoy hearing your "horse sense" in how you individualize each situation and horse in your training! As for Robert on another spicey horse, he deserves a raise, great job! He makes it look so easy.

[@richardsweat9315]

In my many years of riding and having horses, it's aways an experience to watch a trainer like you to re enforce how little knowledge I have about horses and keep my mind open to learning.

[@octoberjubilee9866]

Yes, I agree. Watching an exceptional trainer like Tim is a humbling experience and we can learn so much.

[@karensullivan8458]

Another gorgeous horse. That early trauma usually always causes significant behavior issues, like you said. It's so good watching you work with these horses to get them better, I have a soft spot for animals that had these kind of separation issues as babies. I've had a few come to me like that and they turned out to be the best of friends. They take a lot of work though and kindness and patience. So it's wonderful watching you work them through it.

[@SarahWilsonMySmartPuppy]

Good thing he's with you. Same thing can happen with canine orphans raised by humans who set few/no limits; they have no tolerance for or ability to cope with limits when they mature. Tantrum is right. Putting young ones in the mature, sensible adults can make a big difference. Foals need other kind, but clear horses & pups need such dogs to grow up to be the best they can be mentally and emotionally.

[@tracyjohnson5023]

Humans too! I used to teach high school kids with behavior issues. 98% of the issues were due to their upbringing, reinforced by teachers who they bluffed.

[@melindaflick631]

I worked for a vet who, when the owner of a new puppy mentioned that their pup wasn't listening, asked if there might be a somewhat cranky older dog who could 'school marm' the pup. Belong to a relative or a neighbor or a friend. A dog that would 'grrrr' but not bite when the pup misbehaved. Snap if need be, but NOT bite with intent to harm. Just AMAZING how behavior improved with just a few corrections from an older dog willing to teach and remonstrate the young pup. Dogs speak dog, not human. Even the smartest dogs don't speak human at first! Horses speak horse, and need horse teachers.

[@Masterarms2003]

He is doing what I like to call 'Angry Tail'! My mare is exactly the same! She to has had everything checked (bad ulcers treated, ovaries removed and general health check completed) but will still swish her tail and sometimes kick out when she doesn't want to do something

[@fleetskipper1810]

Tails, swishing and swift kicks, all very common with mare in my experience. if this horse were a mare, I would suggest checking the tenderness over the back above where the ovaries are. Sometimes that can cause this kind of behavior. It’s hormonal.

[@jennyrenken8451]

Just thought of the old song, "Frankie & Johnnie" -- He was her man, but he was doing her wrong. Made me chuckle. -- Seriously, I've learned a lot from you. My mare and I are getting more connected all the time.

[@dickdomanski3493]

Great advice about not letting our emotions affect how we handle a difficult moment with our horses.

[@rickbottoms7838]

I have never been a rider nor have I spent time around horses. I have always been fascinated with them though. I find your videos strangely fascinating and relaxing.

[@juliehmidmo]

Fighting is never the answer. Robert has been earning his keep lately with the challenging horses! He is doing great with Frankie and hopefully the right owner will come along where he can really excel. Good job.

[@NancyNeuffer-kj8ue]

I have one of these OTTBs. I can relate. Mine was a big leap and buck guy with straight up rearing when that got dull. We worked it out and he is a gentleman now. You are doing a great job with this one! I found that mine needed a lot of training going to the right-probably pretty foreign to a track horse.

[@jessicagray3648]

lol @ 6:10 is my issue - I can't stay on when they act up! LOL

[@livesoutdoors1708]

Great job Robert! Perseverance works.

[@carolynstewart8465]

Robert has the Gift!❤❤❤❤

[@chriswolfe9524]

Great advice. Keep your emotions down and try to stay on. Love it!

[@andreak.5647]

Great job again, Robert!

[@lisaweinberger4197]

I just love your ability to transform horses with issues. Love your philosophy and videos!!!

[@randybutler4772]

Such a big change in this guy. He has really improved his temperament. Thank you for sharing.🐴

[@jeannem6723]

Orphan foals have no respect. I don't have the patience to deal with them. Kudos to Tim.

[@lotusflower2838]

Very impressed with Robert's horsemanship, hopefully this TB will come to enjoy being ridden and figure out it is an ok thing

[@arribaficationwineho32]

Swishing tail is not always pain, it is anxiety or unhappiness for whatever reason. Loved when he relaxed. Interesting that he had been ridden then started bucking

[@Nutmeg142]

Irritation. My mare loves to swish her tail at me to let me know she think of me like a fly 🫠

[@fleetskipper1810]

Some horses swish their tails as a sign of test: I don’t want to do that. It’s not always pain.

[@Potmesil04]

@@Nutmeg142 I had a Haflinger mare like that. I'd tell her I didn't care if she was pissed off, walk on.

[@sallypenno164]

​@fleetskipper1810 Horses swish due to anxiety, pain and reproduction. They don't and mentally don't have the capacity think in those ways

[@blondeenotsomuch]

@@Nutmeg142 that sounds like a mare. Actually that sounds like me too.

[@kimberlynads]

Brilliant! Thank you, Tim and your team🎉

[@sidney2022-q6e]

Love your Training

[@JuliaJulia007]

Very informative 🙂

[@SabrinaSilverstein]

My ottb had a Sacroiliac (SI) injury two vets missed it. This horse is acting exactly like mine did. If his Sacroiliac (SI) is hurting him. It will make them buck. My horse was also bottle raised and yes they are different, but I don't think this is that.

[@jaynechristy4590]

Well done Robert

[@SabrinaSilverstein]

Also is is stiff in the back and holding up his tail. Mine did exactly that abd had a Sacroiliac (SI) injury

[@PONYHEAVEN]

A hell of a job. Stuntman performance.

[@qhride1]

a wise old horseman said to me once 'you never stop learning with horses and if you ever think you have learnt every thing with them then you are in for a big surprise!' ,,,,,he throws his head back and laughed

[@sallypenno164]

The horse's tail sits off to the right, which us from an injury to a nuscle j cant think of ATM. IT explains his undemocratic, . weak hind end. Soon as and during the girth gets tightened in the indoor the horse starts displaying anxious behaviour. The horse isnt having a tantrum when bring mounted, hes been put off balance when the foot goes into the stirrup . Thats when the tail swishing and mouthing escalates. Due to the back being pulled

[@sallypenno164]

Add when turning he never crossed the hind over so he's not engaging the back or ge cant

[@moniquegartland5076]

My horse has given up on his bucking , but now he will go 100 miles per hour backward , how can I stop him from doing that ? Please help me thank you

[@fleetskipper1810]

An excellent question, since rapid backing up can result in his turning over on you.

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

Keep kicking hom forward in a circle. I showed that recently in a video of Phanton.

[@moniquegartland5076]

I did watch the video with Phantom , and thank you I will try that wish me luck cause he backs up super fast ,I will kick and get him forward before he excel in speed thank you 🙏

[@lway8332]

How is the saddle fitting your horse? Sounds like he’s trying to tell you something.

[@johnchambers1380]

Good morning Tim. I sincerely wish you and your wife all the best. Thanks for another great video. I'm not a horse owner, and my only experience with them was with 2 Belgians pulling a tourist wagon. Be safe and thanks again for another video without the annoying commercials selling everything from a hank of rope to a truck hitch. God speed

[@valerierowlett153]

Robert is awesome. I would be concerned about getting really hurt.

[@moniquegartland5076]

Thank you I will try that

[@Potmesil04]

I don't want to, and you can't make me. You could see when the lightbulb started to come on. It may be the wattage of a night light right now, but I suspect it will get a lot brighter pretty quick.

[@keradee8742]

Cranky Frankie 😅

[@julieryland994]

Robert has very good seat, leg position and hands

[@tracyjohnson5023]

Tim just wondering if Frankie bucked his owner off or if rider would get off him when it started and he learned that bucking got him out of work.

[@donnac.1609]

I can see Frankie doing that wiggle bucking being led to the starting gate!! Anxiety.....? An orphan mixed into the handling of the race track training is not a good mix. Sure hope his mind grows up as he learns what is expected of him. He moves nice.....and has potential! Most horses headed to the track are not usually truly broken.....At least that used to be the norm!

[@tracyjohnson5023]

Still the norm. They plow rein somewhat, no softness. There is no whoa, just slow down gradually to a walk or trot.

[@JohnAmidon-c6r]

I've never worked with a bottle raised foal, but I've seen a few on videos as "problem" horses, which they are. I wonder what can be done while they're very young to prevent them from developing this behavior?

[@cateruitter8496]

Nice quiet riding by the rider….

[@Sine-gl9ly]

😂😅 I'm laughing as I remember _so many_ tantrums from thoroughly spoilt ponies who'd had their own way, sometimes for _years_. ALL they were being asked to do was walk quietly around the sand school, but they'd make it _such_ hard work for themselves! Silly horses! But it's not funny, really, not when people can get hurt.

[@grenade8572]

Last week, I worked a shetland in the long reins. That little piece of poo acted up each time I asked him to trot. It took almost half an hour to make him understand it was purposeless to act with me like he's used to with little children. Oh, and when my coach had to leave me alone with him for two minutes: that's when he decided to act up the worst, like: "you're alone with me, now! What will you do without the boss? You can't controle me!" But yes, yes I could.

[@nathalieleroch6658]

He is so handsome. I hope all goes wellf for him.

[@kristijohnson1216]

no pain showing in his face at all - just looks like a big baby

[@Sandra-cm1du]

What discipline is Frankie's owner is using this horse for? English?

[@junipersue]

Looking good! 👍🏼 Is Frankie a parrot mouth? Frankie is lucky he got sent to you. He improved so much in just this video.

[@KerryDior]

Just wanted to reinforce that when Frankie was compliant he didn't swish his tail. When Frankie non compliant he was swishing his tail and the behaviour starts. ❤ your educational resources.

[@johnchambers1380]

His tail twitching calmed big time

[@donnawinton9396]

don't have direct experience with former racehorses but am wondering if some of the behavior is carry-over from raceday anxiety or training/breezing anxiety where he was maybe roughly handled or asked to go beyond his ability. the orphan syndrome you've described certainly makes a lot of sense, they're the "entitled" children.

[@lindachicette8354]

Curious if he's bad on the ground or farrier, etc

[@pamgaige1282]

His right rear motion isn't right

[@jeno264]

Agree! 😬

[@lindaj5492]

I guess having had no mama or other herd horses to teach him good manners or scold him when he was naughty is much like those puppies who’d not been socialised long enough before being removed.

[@fleetskipper1810]

Exactly

[@blondeenotsomuch]

Would ponying with Bob help, or be too dangerous to Bob?

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

He's too big for Bob to pony.

[@blondeenotsomuch]

@@timandersonhorsetraining ah he's too big to pony or you need a bigger horse to pony him?

[@sallypenno164]

If the lead horse has a good leading grounding pony size doesn't matter

[@kathywilliamson1826]

Since a horse does not have fingers, it can also be a horse's way to say f you and the horse you came in on!

[@joravlin4902]

Would spending time in a herd of mares help sort him out? Bottle raised pups and dogs that were removed from the mother too soon exhibit temperament issues as well. They need that time with mom to teach them how to be stable, confident dogs. I'm assuming something like that is going on with this bottle fed horse?

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

Yes it's very similar.

[@moniquegartland5076]

Not sure he is at the trainer at the moment, but my saddle fit him really nice even sweat pattern, he has never backed up like that with me , but he sure is backing up really fast with the trainer , you think it could be saddle issue hey , ok I will check in with the trainer thank you

[@LuAnnWheeler]

Is it because orphan babies don’t have their mom to learn from that causes them to be this way?

[@xhaltsalute]

Tail swishing is annoyance, flies, bugs, pain, attitude.

[@Sandra-cm1du]

Horse behavior is interesting. Every Horse is different.

[@kristijohnson1216]

I know he left your place, but did you find out anything on Banks?

[@Vaskitsa]

Wondering about this too!

[@metalkingtohorses]

I AGREE ABOUT LUNGING TOO I RARELY LUNGE

[@metalkingtohorses]

I FEED MY HORSES SO THEY BETTER REALIZE THERE'S A USE FOR ME HAHA 😃

[@dianemanson7756]

I didn't think his excessive tail swishing was pain related. It seems more like agitation. Interesting info about orphan babies.

[@jeannerogers7085]

When he calms down and walks w/o being a pill, the tail calms down.

[@j.elizabeth4621]

Man you get some great looking horses in. He’s got such a sweet, kind, two brain-cell type of eye… for now.

[@moearle1]

Will this be a behavior that he will always have being it’s his personality- so would always need experienced rider that can handle antics and definitely not be a beginner horse for example

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

This video was from several months ago. He is back home, his owner is riding him and he is doing great.

[@janetesser6929]

Tim, will this behavior show up whenever he is pushed a little in the future?

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

At the end of the video I talked about how I prevent that.

[@lauracanaday1510]

It looks like at first he acted like a race horse being asked to walk out to the track expecting to be let go and run - when he sees that’s not what we are going to do he relaxes enough to see what you want from him! I see the “run eventers” act like that a lot!

[@maggieb5326]

Horses swish their tail when they sre angry too!

[@kyliezimmerman2552]

Him being a orphan i dont think its got to do with his attitude but It maybe he being spoilt rotten and got away with it. He need a firm rider that will push past his tantrums.

[@metalkingtohorses]

that is exactly what my mare does once in a blue moon and i cant understand what her deal is just today she did, and was awesome all week, go figure

[@boniw698]

Was this horse imprinted on humans as a foal or was he allowed to be with other horses to no he’s a horse. As we no imprinted foals on humans only are always dangerous. What do the owners plan to do with this horse also. Endurance, dressage. Or just hanging out at the barn. Worse of the choices.

[@catherinedemick1103]

Robert has a velcro butt and a huge amount of patience

[@patriciaantolik6741]

Frankie has a beautiful thoroughbred body. In my opinion, he could use a few more pounds. Maybe he is a hard keeper.

[@connieheinkel8778]

I have two thoroughbred orphans and they are no problem. I have taken them to fun show and trail ride they are fine.

[@suzanneyoung8011]

Just curious. Do you happen to know Frankie's registered name?

[@earloscotts6859]

He drags his right hind foot in a walk.

[@angelag.727]

I too think the right hind is short stepping, digging the toe in first on landing. he never overtracks and still looks stiff in the sacrum to me.

[@timandersonhorsetraining]

Good example of why you shouldn't assume that irregular movement means the horse is sore.

[@blaiseaimee7098]

100%

[@blaiseaimee7098]

@@angelag.727 100%

[@blaiseaimee7098]

@@timandersonhorsetraining It's not the whole problem, but the right hind isn't right. Has he been seen by an equine chiropractor?

[@jeno264]

Lols mostly brat, but he does drag his back right hoof. He isnt for the novice 😳

[@art-is-lazy4509]

Unfortunately Frankie has an up hill run, single purpose breed with a very high kill pen ranking in a ruthless industry. My brother trained TBs for a rich guy for 20 years, so many of those horses went to the horse meat industry. Unfortunately, we have too many horses here, including a massive mustang problem and the racing industry is right up there wrt kills. The problem is not unique to us, I read an article the other day that Australia has a massive ferral horse problem (and camels and donkies), and have resorted to helicopter shooting, leaving the carcasses to rot. Hopefully Frankie can get settled and be saved.

[@suzanneyoung8011]

Just FYI there are far more Quarter Horses going to slaughter than there are Thoroughbreds. The number of Quarter Horses bred is far more thanks to artificial insemination and embryo transfer as well as a number of backyard breeders who don't tend to keep their horses for life. Frankie has two things going for him. His owner who raced him only three times thought enough of him to send him to an organization that rehomes OTTB's, and secondly his current owner thinks enough of him to send him to a highly competent trainer like Tim for retraining.

[@persephonemaeve2704]

I’m Australian and the brumbie issue is blown out of proportion. The government is corrupt and allowing the slaughter so the meat can be sold at high prices for human consumption overseas where it’s considered a delicacy. They aren’t damaging the environment nor are the camels in the outback. It’s just money money money and stupid yahoos are not making clean kills from choppers that are leaving injured horses to rot. Some foals dying next to their dead mums. It’s awful. The only damage to the environment I’ve seen first hand are 4wd tracks from the park rangers and human visitors.

[@richardharrold4357]

Orphan? He was beat up at 2, racing at 3, and didn't like the trainers. Race horses aren't trained to be saddle horses. They race and breeze. That's it. All due respect, being an Orphan in my humble opinion has nothing to do with attitude. Someone jumping on his back and running the heck out of him does.

[@cynthiaschrantz9237]

Can't give an inch with this attitude. The tail switching, ears back, and stiff, short steps are all indicative of the horse saying no.

[@deepcover9894]

He's just a spoiled brat.

[@metalkingtohorses]

HES HURTING EMOTIONALLY TIM HE AN ORPHAN

[@SabrinaSilverstein]

I would never get an ottb poor things are traumatized beyond repair

[@FeralCheryl91]

Not all, I've got a 17.2h gelding I've known since he was 3/4 and he's 10 this year, he's a total dude. He had a couple brain fart moments when I first took him SJing, but he's quiet enough that I can put friends on without me being there and he's a gentleman. Mum and I used to re-train and take OTTs out eventing and sell them on, just gotta treat them all as individuals. The trainers I worked for gave them paddock time and I'd say some of those horses got away with a bit too much 😆

[@zenkohlrabi782]

Stinker

[@lethalcurves1]

You know what I learned from this first minute?? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! BECAUSE this IS NOT how you deal with this. THIS HORSE, IS ACTING LIKE A HORSE!! HE IS A HORSE. HAS ZERO TO DO WITH BEING FED BY A BOTTLE!! THIS IS 10000000% A PEOPLE PROBLEM. PEOPLE DID THIS TO HIM!! FRANKIE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG!! YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING! START WITH GROUND WORK, JUST LIKE YOU DO ANY HORSE. GAIN HIS TRUST!! HE HAS NOT HAD PROPER TRAINING. HE’S NOT NEEN GIVEN ANY COMPASSION. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE HE’S HAD SOME, IF NOT A LOT, OF ABUSE!! I, START ALLLLL OF MY HORSES. WE DO NOT WANT A HORSE WHO IS SCARED OF US, WE WANT A HORSE WHO IS TRUSTING AND HAPPY, COMFORTABLE!! YOU SHOULD NOT BE LET NEAR HORSES!! ALWAYS BLAMING THE HORSE,WHEN IT’S A “PEOPLE PROBLEM!! ANYTHING TO “CORRECT HORSES”, RIGHT?! YOU ARE A POOR EXCUSE OF A HUMAN BEING! **KEEP THIS GUY AWAY FROM YOUR HORSES!! DO EXTENSIVE RESEARCH BEFORE TAKING YOUR HORSE TO A TRAINER((WANNABE TRAINER$)!! IF YOUR HORSE IS IMPORTANT TO YOU, IF YOU LOVE HIM/HER?? DO INTENSIVE RESEARCH…NOT JUST A DAY OR 2…AT LEAST A COUPLE WEEKS OR SO. ASK AROUND YOUR HORSE COMMUNITY!! I CANT TELL YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT HOW THEIR HORSES WERE TREATED BY THIS GUY!! SO SAD :(

[@copperpony]

You're adorable. Go take your pills, have a nap, and stop making false claims on the internet.

[@marygaines1657]

I get so frustrated watching this. Why don’t you guys wear hard hats? Seriously, it’s such a simple thing. You know this horse has issues so I can only assume it’s some kind of macho thinking. It’s one thing that you put your own safety at risk, but this whole purpose of this video is to teach. And to not model safe behavior is irresponsible teaching. I have ridden and worked with horses for 50 years and I know that no matter how good you are, unexpected things happens.

[@melindaharrington7588]

Helmets aren't compulsory, when anyone rides. They are, a personal choice. I am sure, Tim won't be critical, of your choice to wear one.

[@budnspud]

I know what you mean. A great trainer for Harmony Horsemanship was thrown last year in a mustage makeover. She is still recovering from a sever head injury and she did have a helmet on.