osu! Tapping Stamina Study

[@galahadgudgod1036]

Although it is impressive that a gaming community actually attempted and successfully produced a study, the study itself is full of holes. The topic of tapping stamina might as well be a topic about running endurance, since both require extensive knowledge of human biology, not to mention require a level of scientific rigour that is nearly unattainable by those without funding in order to produce a conclusive result. However, the level of organisation is astounding for a gaming community and proves again our unity as a community.

[@xThanosKid]

Tbf doing a study of just running endurance would be FAR easier than this and is a terrible analogy it would be better to say measuring borderline sprinting endurance and consistent cadence rhythm accuracy

[@purpsonus]

@@xThanosKid well said

[@repxic9314]

Me studying maths for 1 second: 💀💀 Me studying Stamina explianed by science explained by digitalhypno and how raising your pinky finger 45° helps you become aricin for 8 hours: 🙂

[@Joony0505]

why is this so true

[@khertz]

Sadly had to quit on the last day because i had a match i couldn't reschedule on a break day. This project was a lot of fun to participate in! :D

[@leferraille7207]

Competition Players

[@Toxcys]

I love how the osu community is doing things like this, but for the time being this is still amateur research at best. For a study like this there needs to be a static practice routine that should theoretically be the most efficient. Leaving the methods of practice up to the participants adds far too much inconsistency to draw any conclusive data from. The practice routine should ideally have players actively try to push their current limits with speed, accuracy, control, and endurance. Increasing the difficulty over the period of the study, this could be done in several ways, but depending on how serious the community is for this get some mappers to make some *fun* practice maps that can be adjusted in speed depending on player benchmarks. What you want in a study is control over all variables so that any data that is gathered can be used to draw conclusions because there should be consistent and readable patterns. Hopefully you dont stop here, with community feedback I think this has the potential to be the real deal. This is the FIRST osu study ever, so it's fine if it is a little rough around the edges, it was needed to get the ball rolling. Hopefully the more the methods are refined the more conclusive data will be gathered and that could be so crazy for this game. Just imagine the insane plays we would see if players like mrekk and whitecat had access to speed routines that WORKED!!!!!! Love this style of content PLEASE DO MORE

[@dashy4791]

Great

[@gutoguto0873]

Awesome comment

[@angstrom0000]

I feel like there would be a stronger correlation if the data was taken over a longer time frame. However I do understand the challenges involved in performing such a long study in this format.

[@aphish_n_flips]

I think ideally, you need to make the study longer (ofc that’s hard especially since more people will drop out) but improvement really is clear after a few months rather than just one from my experience. Great work though! Would love to see how these break days affect other skill sets too in the future! For example I always feel as though my aim is much better after a few day break and my finger control is a lot better after like a week of not playing.

[@namthezoo]

Since I started osu on August 12th 2020, I've never not played for over a week (or if I had to it was because of vacation) This week my therapist told me that I couldn't play osu for the entire week so I'll see how it impacts me

[@aphish_n_flips]

@@namthezoo interested to see how it goes! My theory is that players with good fundamentals and who mostly play maps within their skill range will get slightly worse, but players like me who have bad fundamentals and like to play maps outside their skill range will see slight improvement. Basically you form less bad habits by continually practicing good ones and not playing stuff that promotes bad habits. But if you already have lots of bad habits and they continue to build, then taking a break will allow you to reset to a certain degree, making you feel like you are playing better. Noticed the same thing with fps games (after derusting). Or maybe it’s just a mental refresh so you feel more excited and focused on the game

[@AAAAAA-qs1bv]

@@aphish_n_flips I think the ones that benefit from breaks are also average players, as in order to improve you need to play things that are slightly outside your comfort zone and over time that also causes you to get some bad habits (ofc. way less than just playing for passes does.) Another good side to breaks is the mental aspect. You'll have better nerve control and focus, as you don't need to worry that much about new scores due to you not expecting to set any top plays anyways. Also, if the break was long, I personally notice I accidentally improved my skill just by playing while focusing on derusting.

[@namthezoo]

@@aphish_n_flips okay so yesterday I came back from my 1 week break and surprisingly, I popped off like never before. I gained 125 raw pp and went from rank 65800 to 60400. Everything feels so easy now.

[@aphish_n_flips]

@@namthezoo man that’s super interesting! I think AAA AAA seems to have a good explanation for why it happens. I wonder what the best interval for breaks and play time is. Congrats on the pop off tho!

[@macchiato_1881]

I do have something to point out from this study. You should have used a standardized form of training for the training sessions. Things like warmups, playtime and amount of sessions should be controlled. And studies involving actual people should be incentivized in some sort of way (osu! supporter or something for example) so that participants will have a higher chance of completing the study and the dataset wont be skewed towards speed players that much (since they are already incentivized to play streamy maps because of their playstyle).

[@九头金蛇]

skewed towards speed players :tf:

[@macchiato_1881]

@@九头金蛇 let me rephrase that so you circle clicking apes can understand. Jump aim players streaming bad. Speed players streaming good.

[@九头金蛇]

@@macchiato_1881 Ratio

[@MagusApex]

I like the "last edited [X] minutes ago"

[@Theminecraftbroz2]

I have been waiting for this so patiently. super excited to watch this

[@roundedosu]

i am actually relieved to know that the study is inconclusive i usually coincide with group 4. but the ONLY (literally the only) thing that i've consistently noticed helped me improve is the will to play. on the days when i craved osu before playing i always performed better than on the days i forced myself to play. and i think the test generally forced players to play, which could be a part of the inconclusive result. imo nothing helps you improve other than passion, and that makes sense, take a prodigy in any skill and they are passionate as hell. i don't know a single person who is good at something they don't enjoy. what i think people call "genetics" is actually just how their brain's reward system takes osu when the reward system barely rewards or punishes you for playing - that creates a negative feedback loop and causes you to get stuck and hate the game whereas when the system rewards you even for good chokes and fails you get into a positive feedback loop which causes you to improve AND want to play being eternally in this bad loop, no matter osu or not, is how you get depression and you can't force yourself into wanting to play either, just like how you can't force yourself into wanting to study for exams and then you burn out after forcing yourself to study anyway because you have to. but there are always people who want to study because they enjoy the topic or the reward they get and to no surprise they perform better even though they might spend less time than you

[@gaugea]

this is why pp farming is a trap. when you inevitably plateau at a point and seek improvement, your top plays will not reflect improvement not done on a farm map and it will cause insecurity or at least a loss of motivation. It is a bad cycle to get caught in, but motivating oneself to play while ignoring farm maps in the first place is also hard..

[@roundedosu]

@@gaugea farming when you stopped improving is copium, farming while you're improving is just playing the game

[@MagusApex]

I was waiting for this, and the first time I heard Endurance and Stamina in one video. A very great video

[@nanoshinra3479]

I can't wait to be able to participate in a potential future reissue of this study, it was very interesting and it lead to many improvements in gameplay as well as consistency and of course stamina. (Here to represent Group 3) 🤝

[@_bonbon]

Group 3 hype

[@sahukei4003]

I LOVE GROUP 3

[@rainyy8132]

not sure if this is subjective or not but i started eating more healthy and also started exercising and my stamina was actually affected by that, went from not being able to do 170 to doing 200 for like 90 notes (and as per usual my stamina disappeared the next day and came back yesterday)

[@ziko7190]

me listening to habib say sleep it needed for improvement 3 hours before i need to wake up This video and study is really cool tho, osu uni comes in with another banger

[@2BXD]

Caffeine intake graph!

[@taggerung_]

I wish you could have written a section at the end discussing how you could have done the study differently to produce clearer results. Interesting nonetheless.

[@taggerung_]

So here are some things that should ideally be controlled for in the future: - Technique - Warmup - Diet - Sleep (it was tracked but not controlled) there are probably others, but these are the four that stand out to me

[@keepingcompany8196]

This was a pretty cool video! I think if you wanted to expand on this, having other maps to use as benchmarks would be a great start. I don't think break days is a good metric for gauging improvement though. Things such as time played per session, maps completed(to avoid bias for retry spamming) etc would all be great ways to assess improvement. I think the main issue is that terms like stamina might mean different things to different people when it comes to this game.

[@santigarcia4030]

It was very fun to take part of ! As someone who chose to be part of group 6 in a moment of weakness (aka believing I wouldn't relapse into my osu addiction over the 3 break days asked of me) I honestly didn't really expect any improvement and if anything was concerned it was going to ruin my normal playing. I did see a little bit of an issue after I dropped out towards the end due to wanting to join a tournament, where my fingers would stutter and I'd end up missing, but that was probably just me getting distracted lol. I actually just had a great increase in streaming stamina a few days ago, and had another one almost immediately after I dropped the study. I still attribute my improvement to the study, i definitely think that I wouldn't have done as well as I'm doing now without it. I'm looking forward to joining a future study as well! I'll try not to succumb to tournament temptation and stay throughout lol.

[@idontknowwhatusernametouse4067]

the reason why speed players don't sleep that much is because of the copious amount of caffeine they intake lmao

[@90enemies]

sytho moment

[@JoseHasBeenChosen]

Litterly me I'm trying to go to sleep rn but I had. 4 cups of coffee and I was playing for 12 hours straight but I do that every day

[@teovinokur9362]

it's definitely not a bummer that the results are inconclusive. to the contrary, i actually believe this is study is a stepping stone that could lead to something really big in the future, with some changes, and i wouldn't wanna see this be the end of it. really looking forward to what osu!university has under their sleeve

[@PandaPasBo]

I’d like to add that you can consider stamina like a ‘’sport’’ you really need to practice stamina consistently because after the study I kinda stopped playing stream maps cuz I was a bit burned out of the stream maps and I saw that my stamina and tapping technique got really worse and then after couples of weeks I practiced again but less intense and now I’m around at the same level at the end of the study

[@unknownceres5714]

thumbnail: explained by science. conclusion of video: no explanation

[@saulsug1066]

this is actually insanely cool that a study was done about osu

[@really_kevin8869]

Yooo been waiting so long for this :D

[@intingwithzoe5715]

I actually think it would be really interesting to look into reading ability studies regarding sleep and break time.

[@Kyomaku]

And methods of practicing to read. I think using low ar maps to isolate reading and practice it is an insanely good method, but who knows if that's actually true and maybe it just worked for me? (e.g. playing 3* maps at AR0 helped me a lot reading 6* maps lol)

[@saisnice]

Really interesting study, thank you! Here is an idea for another one: Would be really cool to see how the osu skins affects visual readability and people's performance. It feels like skins doesn't make a huge difference but in practice i can imagine it have a huge impact.

[@xxflatbabyxx]

it's obvious that you guys arent professional researchers but im sure that with your dedication the university will achieve some great things in the future

[@KeiKunDesu]

Love how group 7 had graphs of a heart monitor lol

[@jkake5398]

this is insanely dense, really cool to see this sort of thing in the osu community

[@eren0411]

I dropped out like 5 or 4 days before finishing the study, all i can say is this was insane and i saw a big improvement in my stamina and speed

[@parlantina10]

tbh i think this study missed a pretty important group the ones who play for like a week or two straight and then drop for a week

[@shien1911]

The data would be less accurate if it's any longer since some people's routine will change and with groups having more break days people are likely to play more to cover for their skillsets

[@R1L1.]

The results are definitely interesting the only weird thing was how little no important any of the groups got sure it was only a one month study but people should improve by at least 10bpm. Also the amount of break days seems negligible i should on the scale of hours 8 hours at night seems enough of a break.

[@Shinitakunai26]

For you it would be at least 10 bpm for a whole month, but think about all the hardstruck 6 digit who really becomes better way slower than the peoples around you and yourself . And i thinks that this is why in this study they didn't really become good in general. Some for sure got minus 10bpm or more at the end of the study

[@R1L1.]

@@Shinitakunai26 true its different for me i am a stream player but i think the issue is mindset they aren't really playing the game with the best mindset always complaining in forums about how bad they are and how genetics hold them back or overthinking the game to oblivion but at the end nothing really matters 🥲.

[@f4lleng0dz]

this is next fking level of playing osu! lol i dont mean that this kind of study is definitely bullshit but it helps to concrete certain foundation where people playing it through trial and error, i never thought that there is a game pushing so far that every technique can be study in the right way to improve the skill efficiency without risking potential injuries and also the same time u can gain that specific of skill. So damn impressed for these people sacrificing their time to make new player study this skill more easier on nowadays.

[@1macca]

thanks for linking the document, habib.

[@g2h5j3]

But this shows just how complex everything around osu is. In the end a conclusion which i would make is: "Its not important when you train. But it's (probably) important how u train". There are sooo many things one would have to pay attention too if we wan't to know what's really going on

[@txuan4043]

Its finally here.

[@elysiium3]

Next month - Osu! : Genetics Tapping Stamina Study!

[@AndreiWithalotofNumbers]

Next time you should definitely add control groups, like people who play every day and people who don't play at all

[@strw_skll]

Maybe more data was needed, i do agree that rest days are very important

[@cheshire1]

If no one really improved then we can't conclude that the number of break days has no significant impact. In fact, we can't draw any conclusion about the number of break days.

[@noimnot2016]

age, hours played before starting, and rank wouldve been nice to have as a statistic.

[@SalmonParadise]

YESS ITS FINALLY BEEN RELEASED :D !!!!

[@spooky2526]

The terrible data with group 7 is probably due to the fact that they were only playing one day a week, so there were only 4 days of data in the month leading to it not being very accurate, you would need a lot more people in group 7 to make up for this

[@descai10]

sort the groups by average play time length and see which is the best, i think how long your sessions are is an important metric

[@denishvv7216]

Hi. I think you should repeat this experiment taking as much people as possible, making less groups and longer period of time like 3-6 months

[@dreadk5594]

Although there were plenty of issues with how this study was conducted given the desired goals I think it still managed to prove something that it perhaps wasn't originally intending to. And that is that mindless "playing more" doesn't necessarily result in any improvement (contrary to some beliefs in the community). You would expect that players would improve quite a bit by the end of the study even if its just a month. But since they were never given proper instructions their methods differed a lot and on average players didn't really improve.

[@Suigen]

I have a problem with my tapping because I alternate but I have more taps on my z key than my x. if anyone knows anything about this pls give suggestions or tips to help me fix this.

[@bnto8788]

tap more with x :D

[@bajungasam7389]

its not a problem, that is how 99% of alternator players are. It just means you start streams and triples with z than x. Only bubbleman is one of the only pro alternaters who starts his streams every time on both fingers and will he hardly stick to one finger. Mathi also alternates triples if it's a fast bpm or its a lot of them.

[@luansmn]

the same thing happens to me. people mentioned you always starting streams/bursts on the same finger but in my personal case i know this just comes from my right finger being able to tap faster than my left, resulting in more taps for said finger. not to worry, it's nothing bad, but i understand why you'd be confused about that

[@bowling4935]

if you really want to full alt, you can try the mcosu full alt mod to force yourself to full alt, i'm a full alt player and i also started with this problem, but for my case i just naturally started to forget my dominant finger, but you can try the mcosu mod if you want to

[@handsomebear.]

I started full alting more or less when I reached 3* maps, a couple months after starting osu!. At this point I've played for a year and for the most part I only get uneaven taps on really complicated or (too)fast reading/tech type maps and/or after a longer break in the map where I have time to forget what the I tapped last. But most of the time I check the count during the break because I'm kinda autistic with it. Anyway, if you feel it is causing a gameplay issue for you or you want to correct it for some other reason- there are some things you can to practice alternating: Using Rewind(you can find a link in the description of this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6uwoJ6nrdSkbck [youtube doesn't allow external links...]). It is a program that lets you review replays to see where you tapped and which button you used. It has features such as slowing down the gameplay and turning off hidden mod going forward and back with a click on the timeline etc. This can help you see a pattern in where you're going wrong which will help you figure out how to solve it. Play maps that are _very easy_ for you to read and put as much focus as you can into alternating your keys. One issue for players who have issues doing full alternating is that they're practicing on maps that require them to focus on other things like reading or stamina or whatever else is hard about them. Playing maps that let you put as much focus as possible into the skill you want to practice can be a good way to correct very specific issues such as this one. Gradually increasing the difficulty of the training session over time makes sense I think, but also just playing really easy maps here and there to work on overall fundamentals can be advisable(see DigitalHypnos vid on Auto method~). If there are specific patterns that mess up your alternating, such as left -> right -> left -> right -> right -> left -> right -> left(I has issues with this, patterns where I had to aim right and click the left button after doing the opposite as my example shows. I've also heard many single tappers complaing about jump maps being hard when they try to full alt) then I would suggest trying to find or create maps that let you pinpoint this. I used a mapset by "Dafiely", if you check the graveyard maps on his profile on the osu! website you'll find it there. It's called "jump patterns training by various artists" for some reason it doesn't show up when I search for it. The snowflake and horizontal jump patterns helped me a lot with this issue. It even has different BPM and jump distances so you can pick whatever fits you. _Just to be clear, I don't think playing these kinds of maps too much is good for your overall skill level in osu!, I only used them during a couple weeks and only played them here and there during that time and it fixed my problem~._ There is a mod in Lazer that makes you miss and flashes the cursor red when you tap the same button twice or more in a row. You can potentially use that for negative reinforcement practice. Aka you fail to alternate and lose your combo, hence your brain wants to do better next time. I have no idea how good or fast something like this would work in this specific scenario but~ it's an idea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hope that helps in some way. GLHF!

[@Yokkayy]

I would have loved to be a part of this!

[@FerryTTV]

So the conclusion is once again: play more

[@aeternum4691]

Ill switch to mech keyboard from laptop kb There are really much diff?

[@sant11h]

Having played in both keyboards, I would say yes, specially in finger control or high BPM maps the laptop keyboard falls apart.

[@aeternum4691]

@@sant11h thank you sir

[@Yoshologist]

@@sant11h I personally prefer laptop keyboards, I can singletap up to around 300bpm on my laptop keyboard compared to 280 ish on my mech

[@faa-]

Thank you digimon

[@isigo483]

group 7 was the impostor group

[@fuchiosu5453]

Bro.. what was your average in presentation score assignments in highschool??

[@somanymyflag]

i would've love to have participated but not at the expense of my wrist

[@zetizer3362]

Your reading voice < text on screen

[@ArgelLachica]

I dropped out of group 1 in 2 weeks because of injury :c

[@cyanide_3409]

Digital Hypno, I love the idea of osu university and all but when you ask questions you just get trolled and get stupid answers with no worth Please kinda note it down, most lower ranked like me(230k) people won't bother to talk there cause of the troll and meaningless answers you get for questions

[@leferraille7207]

group 7 trolling

[@tyfaspo]

LET'S GOOOO

[@karma7222]

1 month is a relatively short period for this type of study. A few months maybe but a year would be ideal. That’s very unrealistic though

[@visiontiger2172]

A year is super unrealistic, around months should be ample

[@koishi5935]

True unless you're starting from square 1 it's really hard to improve in one month. But then again it's probably just as hard to get people to participate for much longer. I was afraid I was muddling the results because I wasn't improving, but it seems like my results were actually normal.

[@karma7222]

@@visiontiger2172 yes, same with the daily reports. Those would have to string out to a week most likely if it were a 3-4 month study. Just need some hardcore gamers who can stick with the script lol

[@iconic410]

@@karma7222 or pay us. id do the whole year for a month of supporter

[@d0xter742]

@@iconic410 ... you know supporter is like $4

[@carrqt]

when you said “osu university” i thought you were talking about ohio state university 💀💀

[@louis.bodota]

all they did throughout the study was play more

[@Khetomi1]

osu phd 2.0

[@Haru-nh2lp]

nice

[@soryuaims]

psi gane osu game

[@umadbro4493]

i think everybody knows about OSU (university) 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😁😁😂😂😂😂

[@Ani-lc6op]

Lol wtf

[@rh4ndyS]

wooooooooooooooooooo

[@zetizer3362]

I expected this video a bit usefull, but with any one minute more it was worse and worse, more useless and more useless.

[@frowning4580]

Wew