the BIZARRE writing of genshin's TRAVELER

[@adriandaliva1341]

Zhongli's line calling the traveler a "witness" to Teyvat's events pretty much is what the devs so far have agreed to run away with. They're not TRAVELERS, they're CAMERAMEN. 🔥

[@Accountthatexists]

That more like an excuse then actual logical explanation

[@imperialsarcasm]

At that point they may as well not even be the protagonist anymore and instead some glorified background character in every region

[@adriandaliva1341]

@@imperialsarcasm I am of the belief that the floating yapping helium-inflated turd is the real protagonist of this game

[@aeso3555]

​@@adriandaliva1341Paimon impact.

[@Yewrenegade]

not only CAMERAMEN, but also self inserts for both siblings because of course

[@kylerogers8948]

Just started the video, so I’mma say; the traveler is written like he’s a ragdoll being dragged around by other people’s crap. I APPRECIATE when the premise of a quest is its a commission from the adventuring guild because it provides at least a reason.

[@phyrexian_dude4645]

Ironically, during the Inazuma patch, we were given a lot of busy work fetch quest just to get out of the goddamn customs island. The last one where we had to deliver the letter, the Traveler actually had a face of "F-off im not a delivery boy", basically acknowledging the ragdoll issue. And later on it went further when the Traveler was "offered" to help the rebelion (Aka, you owe us a favor so join us as payment) and the Traveler said "NO". And the moment, the precise moment the Traveler showed some kind of independent thought, some people in the comunity got angry. And after that the Traveler has rarely showed any other kind of iniciative to tell people to F-off with their problems. The only good thing that came of that is that from time to time the Traveler has more lines of "and what do i get from helping you?"

[@bocchiii.]

Traveler also has a "I can't just stand when someone is in trouble" mentality, so them deciding to help everyone isn't just them being ragdolled, it's mostly their decision or them agreeing to help on someone else's request The only time they were forced was in Inazuma

[@kayleighdriessen]

I'd personally atleast appreciate it like based on fan-interpretations of them if the traveler is portrayed as in-universe aware of the fact nearly everyone around them in Teyvat is pushing them to do this or do that like they're some kind of errand-boy/girl even though the only thing traveler usually asks for help for is to collect information on the whereabouts of their sibling who they found out sides with the Abyss, like Hoyo can't make Paimon the only reasons he/she has any shred to personality just because she constantly talks on behalf of both of them.

[@tristanmanalo6252]

Yapp he is literally just a witness. Someone to just watch and not interfere with how the fate of all the characters stories

[@amari7782]

@@phyrexian_dude4645it’s funny too cuz after they say no Ayaka guilt trips them into helping anyway

[@BaselardFE]

I think a reason why I enjoy the Hangouts so much is because Paimon is mostly absent. It's just Traveler and the character interacting and it's great. I do wish at least their dialogue options were voiced, but it is what it is 😔

[@piterrospl9512]

Honestly, hangouts should just be a formula for every character at this point (even if on a smaller scale, like have 1-3 paths, but longer and more detailed like individual story quests). There are so many great things about hangouts. They focus on character always. Multiple paths can also allow for different little stories, where some can feature growth, some can highlight a certain personality trait, and some can explore their past. Story quests have to balance it out, but a lot of story quests choose one, sacrificing the rest - hence why terrible quests that have no value due to focusing on what we already know (like Nilou, Yae, Ayato). There are also smaller points to those. As you said, it feels like it's us interacting with the character instead of Paimon being the talker and us being the watcher. And the "illusion of choice" is much less present. Obviously there are the paths, but the "liking" system is also great if utilized. Potentially "failing" by upsetting the character too much makes us think about the choices, immersing us more.

[@Maomaomahu]

Not only that but what you say ACTUALLY has an outcome. Nothing annoys me more than putting the story on auto play and then it stopping just for me to make a choice between 2 dialogue options which are basically useless.

[@SoutaCherry]

But emergency food :(

[@gameb9oy]

I don’t think that’s fully the issue of paimon. Paimon I actually kinda like when she’s written to be more than the traveler’s voice box, it’s actually cute seeing their bond throughout the Fontaine arc

[@skylarsouthhearth1523]

@@gameb9oy Yeah but she brings a lot of unnecessary dialogue, she is cute I won't deny and she's funny, I do like her bits of dialogue but she has too much dialogue where 90% of the archon quest is just paimon talking, It would be nice to hear the traveler talking as well, The traveler and paimon talking to each other would be nice and plus the traveler talking more would show the effects of them learning teyvat's language it would also be cute to see them mess up the language a bit and have paimon step in

[@djailsonfelipe84]

I'm actually more in favor for Traveler having strong opinions and personality rather than being just another self insert empty protagonist. I liked when he had opinions about the Fatui, to me it made sense that they would be truly disappointed in Lyney after knowing he was hiding shady business, because the Traveler actually started trusting him up to a point until then. It's not like he's ever trustful of Childe either, nor any Fatui they've ever come across. All the more I DESPISE self insert blank protags, they are often the most boring things on a story and it comes across to me as a pathetic power fantasy although I'd consider Link is a perfect exception (I do love him) I feel like he does have enough personality traits to make him an unique character, rather than most boring self inserts.

[@KadaEklund]

What i cant stand is the illusion of choice we are given. If i can have choices i want them to have impact instead of just getting a slightly different dialogue line.

[@catwithakeyboard9058]

what about trailblazer from starrail

[@ishinomorileon]

If they want to make a self-insert like a proper RPG would, they should allow us to dictate what the Traveller thinks and how they respond. So, to players who are Fatui apologists, they could choose to be forgiving and in favor of the Fatui group in conversations; but to people who despise the Fatui, they could choose the exact response that's already there. The problem with Genshin's self-insert method is that the players do not get to insert themselves in there. And it doesn't matter what dialogue choice you choose, people would react the same way, outcome would ultimately be the same.

[@O_Ciel_Phant0mhive]

YESSSS! I find it funny when people think they are just self inserts or rag dolls lmao like they are clearly not. It's lie you said that they have strong opinions. I also love when the traveller finally out their foot down when they got to Inazuma saying that they would not help out with the archon. They are on a mission to find their sibling and that is that. I loved that!

[@eri_sama]

one self insert protag done well imo is joker from p5

[@osmanthuswine5336]

Hoyo didn’t know if they should make a self insert or a actual character so they made both and it did not go well

[@akasahi9315]

the main reason problem is how they designed their gacha They want to showcase alot of characters while trying to maintain a cohesive prolonged story We don't have this problem in HI3rd because HI3rd actually focused on smaller roster with different battlesuits. HSR is already having the same problem as Genshin. Trailblazer MC and the Astral Express Crew aren't needed at all and acted like a self insert deus ex machina and just fight the supposed "main boss"

[@kylesmith987]

@@akasahi9315 While this is true i don't necessarily think the large cast is the main issue. In HI3rd you are just the captain that is entirely a silent self insert. There is no physical model or character for the captain. You just witness the story play out and that is it. This allows the actual characters to get the screen time and progress the story in cohesive ways that fit their character. Having new Archon quests set in different locales with different characters isn't the reason the writing is jarring at times. The reason is that every single story must have Paimon and the Traveler at the center of it as this pseudo silent protag but not really and it takes away the necessary screen time to develop the new cast of characters that was just introduced. The other main issue with Genshin is the way Paimon is used. I don't hate Paimon as much as most people do but I completely understand why people don't like her. Because the traveler is setup as a pseudo silent protag/self insert they constantly have Paimon speak in place of the traveler as if that is the travelers thoughts and it clashes hard with the player and their thoughts on the situation. It makes Paimon feel like an extension of the travelers personality and therefore makes the traveler not feel like an actual silent protag/self insert when they need to be. Have you ever met some one in real life that actually likes when someone else is constantly speaking for them, I haven't. Paimon would be much more well regarded if she remained strictly a comedic relief side kick style character and stop speaking for the traveler, and on this note that means the traveler needs to speak up and become their own character with their own motivations or needs to be turned into a true silent protag, personally I would prefer the former as I personally don't feel the need to have a self insert character to witness the story and feel immersed in it. I also think giving the traveler an actual personality would make the quests focused on finding their twin feel more meaningful and emotionally impactful. If they do this I think the writing would be significantly better received.

[@akasahi9315]

@@kylesmith987 HI3rd you're Kiana/Adam, the commander is yes, just a useless self insert unlike other gachas self insert You're talking about Paimon, but Genshin Impact just copied that aspect from Granblue Fantasy, Vy talking most of the time on behalf of the player's MC but despite that, Gran and Jita has their own character developments that outshine ANY character. The main problem in Genshin Impact is that characters don't actually join the Traveller on their journey outside their respective borders. Like canonically, NONE has joined except Paimon. Why is that? Because Genshin Impact prioritizes selling new characters than developing existing ones.

[@kylesmith987]

@@akasahi9315 You are not Kiana, Kiana is the MC of HI3rd but she is absolutely not a self insert/silent protag. She is just the character you view the perspective of the story from because the story mostly revolved around her. Kiana absolutely has her own motivations and thoughts and absolutely speaks. This is the difference between a main character an a silent protag as explained in this video. The Paimon thing being a trope a is totally true thought it absolutely started WAY before Granblue. Navi from Zelda did this like 2 decades ago and I'm positive there are stories that did it way before that. Its a writing trope that like all things needs to be executed correctly or it doesn't work that well and in the case of Genshin this trope is actually hindering its writing. I disagree on your third part. The characters absolutely do not need to be apart of every single story in the game and follow the MC around everywhere. This is a world built around the idea of many people living in it and many different stories happening in it and while there are absolutely central characters to the over arching plot this does not apply to every character. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of having different characters take part in different aspects of the story around the world and having different degrees of important to the story. Like i stated before the main reason this feels jarring is because every story centers around the traveler and the traveler is not a well defined character, as also explained in this video, and takes up the vast majority of the screen time that should be dedicated to the more important characters during their story beats. Genshin also just has a serious problem with telling and not showing. Way too much of its story happens in dialogue/lore and not enough of it happens in cut scenes, gameplay, etc. Video games are a visual and input based medium and therefore should use visual/gameplay related story telling to its strength. I suspect the main reason for this is the egregious deadlines Genshin has to release content on this very fast and consistent schedule that prevents them really executing on this and they end up using dialogue/lore as a crutch to tell the vast majority of the story.

[@shirotako6249]

@@akasahi9315 nah you're on some bullshit with the third point

[@mysticalee]

I personally feel really disconnected when the traveller gets the one-off voice line. I'm more focused on "omg zach got voice lines" than what they're actually saying.. and most of the time what the traveller is saying doesn't feel necessary at all. I feel like traveller should either be completely voiced in the archon quests and story quests or never have voice lines at all, the mix of the two doesn't work.

[@CarterVanek-uv3ow]

@@mysticalee the travelers voicelines are always relevant to the plot or just stating the obvious And then the dialgoue options are useless cause ther either 1. Saying the exact same thing but a differny way 2. It's just one sentence in 2 differnt diagloue options And thats why there so boring lame and bland

[@anhelaanhela4996]

You kinda did it to yourself by involving yourself with the VA community so much. You could change your voice over language.

[@mysticalee]

@anhelaanhela4996 that wasn't my point. My point was that the traveller will evey now and then have one random voice line out of nowhere and it doesnt add much. He'll just say one sentence that feels out of place a little. Like in Xianyun's story quest fore example. In my opinion it would make more sense to have him at least say more than one line or not include a voice line at all and leave it as dialogue.

[@KaleidoAbridged]

@@anhelaanhela4996 Nah cuz I was taken out of the story myself when aether yelled 'Venti!' and asked to have missing person posters put up in Liyue, because I forgot we had a voice and I knew nothing about the voice actors back in the day.

[@Airs1000]

bro my exact thoughts every time are literally "omg zach is getting paid this patch" and then during the most recent dainslief quest where lumine called him aether and he just starts speaking: "omg he just became self aware wtf"

[@madge140]

I'm gonna be honest, one of my favourite, if not my favourite moment of the entire game was during the conversation with your sibling in Bedtime Story where they refer to you as 'Lumine/Aether' and you respond with YOUR NAME TITLE ACTUALLY BEING LUMINE/AETHER; "You're the only one in this world who calls me that." Oh my god. I hate the silent traveller but I LOVE Lumine, the sheer joy I felt when they finally disconnected the 'silent protagonist' from the traveller made me so happy. Like you said, Link works as a silent protagonist. But the twins don't. The journey the twins go on is too complicated, and at its heart genshin is a story game. Making the main character silent in a game like that where you are so involved and the storyline is so political is such a bad decision and huge lost potential. Anyway, I love this video and please don't stop making these amazing video essays.

[@salmonmeister]

Omg I didn’t even notice that your title changes because I play named Aether anyways. I did that in an attempt to be lore accurate but I guess ultimately the most lore accurate thing was to have another name

[@grqfes]

yeah that was pretty sick. it finally felt like a real decision coming out of the writers room

[@mittenvonscrufflears7233]

I just wish we got to know more about what the Traveler is thinking, and that's impossible with him barely ever speaking or showing his thoughts. I was just thinking as I was playing the Natlan archon quest, when they were exploring the relationship between Chasca and her sibling, "It would be cool if the Traveler talked, or at least thought, about his relationship to his sibling" There are so many times the Traveler can actually contribute to the story in moments like this, but 99% of the time, Hoyoverse chooses not to. At least in the Natlan world quests, it gets a bit better with his banter with Paimon, but not really knowing his personality or what he's thinking makes it hard for me to care about him

[@Aleikaru]

In my opinion there is 3 ways to fix traveler 1) Make our dialogue option matter. I like Paimon but she doesn't have to explain everything to us. 2) Voice our darn in game dialogue options voice, if ZZZ can do it so can genshin. 3) Make the traveler use their elemental power more in cutscene, if I can remember were only around 4 to 5 moments the traveler used their elemental power. This will make the traveler more badass and will make us feel the traveler put in effort while fighting instead of using just a dull blade.

[@ii-xl2vb]

4) fix their kit bcs their kit is a 💩. If they don't want make them super op but at least make them have an use, come on they're the mc, 5 star character (they said), not an npc with random elemental power.

[@arcturus4762]

The Traveller not using any elements against Arlecchino unironically made me salty. “NoT sTrOng eNouGh tO BeAt Me” Bitch, you had to activate your demon form against a guy/gal with a dull blade. Between that and not allowing him/her to use swords that we’re supposed to canonically own (like Festering Desire) makes it hard to feel like we’ve made any progress as at all as a fighter.

[@Aleikaru]

@@arcturus4762 The cutscene would looked so much better if the traveler just use their elemental powers and then arlecchino activate her demon form.

[@Aleikaru]

@@ii-xl2vb The fact only dendro traveler is useful and they have no elemental burst animation makes them not even feel like a 5 star.

[@ping-x7m]

@@arcturus4762they tried to sell arlecchino so hard, they make traveler weak asf. Like let traveler use their elemental power biatch. Theres no point in them resonating with various elemenets just to be beaten by a fatui harbinger. I get that shes no 4 harbinger but is travaler really that weak and so incompetent???

[@leratowo6507]

ughh this is like when fanfic authors say the mc is a reader insert but just end up writing for an oc🙄🙄🤚

[@kayleighdriessen]

Like an self-insert OC who somehow ends up having nearly every boy and/or girl feel attracted to them for no reason other then because they're the main-character.

[@mari_golds-bleeding-ink]

Yep

[@inazawakoreto]

Correct

[@novu6196]

​@@kayleighdriessen DON'T GET ME STARTED 😭😭😭 biggest pet pieve of mine

[@NyaNya-w1e]

Is there anything particularly wrong with it tho? I personally like self insert MCs with personality in them. Its hard to read when the leading role is uninteresting and dragged along the plot.

[@facilde1]

Yeah this is pretty much Genshin´s biggest strength and weakness, they have a very interesting Plot going on with the Kanriha events and the siblings´s roles on them, but they are forced to tiptoe around it because they cant reveal much of it or the mistery would be spoiled before its time, result its the twins fell very stagnant with the rest of the world

[@nomeinteligente1647]

Ah Yes kanriha

[@catdownthestreet]

Khaenri'ah lol

[@leonardoalvarenga7572]

Cananéia.

[@Pedro-cq7zz]

I think you misspelled khan ren ra

[@bavanii.8334]

Don’t worry guys, I think he prob said Canada.

[@noname-lb3sg]

My problem with them is that despite having such interesting lore and story they are forced most of the time to be just self insert why can’t they just be thier own character just like kiana or wise and belle man they still have moment when your choice doesn’t matter like when they were mad at lyney and Lynette

[@irz98]

While I love the idea of Traveler being their own character, their writing when they act like one is so inconsistent, like I understand why they were mad at Lyney and Lynette for messing their defense in the trial by lying and breaking their trust, but if you put it next to how they reacted and acted with other characters, such as Ei, it's so jarring how chill and friendly they were with her after she life-threatened them but treated Lyney and Lynette like trash and haven't even put any thought as for why they had to lie to them (like otsuucurry stated, you would think that at this point they would have a more nuanced opinion on the Fatui), also their view on the Fatui is inconsistent too, because they be seeing them as the bad guys but they're besties and all-trusty with a literal Fatui Harbinger, which by association, most of them committed crimes, Childe included :')

[@sapphireshineauthor]

​@@irz98 I think that's the biggest issue of it all, the travelers are INCONSISTENT with their writing. Sometimes they're a goodie two shoes, sometimes they're "selfish", sometimes they're empathetic and others they're wary. I never really noticed it in previous quests, but the writing makes it uncomfortably jarring during Fontaine due to their opinions on the twins. Why is there such a stark reaction between the trial in act 1 and meeting Wriothesley in act 3-4? Like, huhh?? We were distrusting and (rightly) mad at them when we found out they withheld information, but literally a month or two (at most) go by and suddenly we're angry at Wriothesley for doing his job?? Why are we so protective of them now?? Even if it was the "we must protect people who are only trying to do the right thing", we didn't once ask Wriothesley for his view on things until he outright told us. Because the twins are still acting on Arlecchino's orders. Yet we get so angry on their behalf, what prompted that? It just doesn't make sense.

[@bubblesparks]

​​@@sapphireshineauthoromg ur description is exactly the thought I have had while playing genshin Traveler's writing is sooo inconsistent that it becomes confusing to pin point which is their true personality. Perhaps hoyo wants them to be multi faceted, but imo bc paimon speaks for them instead the story just fails. It is also not helping with how traveler's voice lines are hidden in the profile. Like why can't he just speak normally like normal characters.. it frustrates me so bad that the moment genshin focuses only on other chars without traveler in sight becomes the most exciting moment for me When I play HSR, sometimes the mc can be entertaining, but that is also the product of hsr's world genre and modern media inspiration. I hardly could care for aether/lumine and their sob story of being separated bc of HOW EMPTY THE TRAVELER IS MOST OF THE TIMES IN THE ARCHOM QUEST If they added tiny bits of moments where the traveler mentioned abyss sibling it'd be more impactful, like when a scene of going to bed happens they can just mumbles of missing those days they spent with other twin or smth then it'd help to show players how sentimental they are We can't rly know how traveler actually feels bc they are constantly pushed around by the plot and makes them feel like such a side char

[@wifi961]

No, it's just that they're bad at writing and want to promote waifus.

[@sapphireshineauthor]

​@@wifi961 That's probably the main root of the problem, but considering other protagonists in other Hoyo games like Honkai Impact (3rd and Star Rail) and their new game ZZZ have MUCH better protagonists imo, and that's saying something since ZZZ is amping up waifu fanservice to 100/10 (I say as a fan of ZZZ). It just goes to the main issue of Genshin being the game that despite bringing in the most revenue and the most well known, gets the shortest stick in terms of care and writing out of their games.

[@kidwakanda]

I'd be all for a separate Paimon video. I feel like most of her over arching problem is that there's less overtly going on with Paimon than there is with the Travelers. There's no answers to who she really is, so no real main story Paimon content. On top of that, like you said in the video, she doesn't really add anything to conversations, leading to her feeling superfluous to virtually all the events she's in.

[@adriandaliva1341]

@@kidwakanda all the events she's in, meaning 95% of the game (the missing 5% is surprisingly the 4-star character hangouts 😂)

[@mitchsz]

Also the fact everyone else just accept the fact she exists without questioning what she is. Not even the traveler questions it like bro come on.

[@catdownthestreet]

It's a little less weird in Natlan but that could just be me, since I love Paimon

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

the main issue with Paimon really is that it's been almost 4 years now (we're just 19 days away from the 4th anniversary) and we've still gotten 0 actual lore for her. she probably takes up roughly 50% of the game's voiced dialogue by herself and yet we've gotten no history, no noticeable character development, and at best her role in the story has been that she speaks on our behalf. she barely ever even does her supposed role as a guide. like it must seriously take some effort on Hoyoverse's part to give a character so much screentime without actually doing anything with the character. and the worst part is that despite how mysterious she appears to be to us, and despite the fact that she is clearly some kind of unique one-of-a-kind being even in-universe (to the point that the Traveler seems to be instantly recognizable world-wide due to nothing more than being in Paimon's proximity), nobody ever questions her, she's just there without any explanation. we have the story about us fishing her out of the ocean but absolutely nothing about before that.

[@unixtreme]

She’s the ELI5 character, I hate her.

[@Accountthatexists]

The WORST part of that 4.7 dainsleig quest......was they made the traveler forgot meeting there sibling........there ABSOLUTELY 0 REASON AT ALL, to do that.......we were FINALLY GETTING DEVELOPMENT FOR THE TRAVELER............and they took it away for NO REASON AT ALL, WHY WHY WHY

[@dominickroberts4653]

Because they have more characters to sell. So they make the traveller forget this so we have to wait for their real interaction so hopefully we spend money on a character

[@Accountthatexists]

​@@dominickroberts4653but they can still sell chars? By giving the traveler development? Idk what's the point of what u said? Cause the game wouldn't of ended if the traveler got development in that quest?

[@demonking-zm3rs]

​​@@AccountthatexistsIt wouldn't be development? The Traveler is already a developed character. (Literally when Thoma asks them to join the resistance they flat out say No) Same with them disagreeing on how there sibling intended to remove the curse in the Chasm The quest was about Caribert. Like the Traveler says "None of that Matters" this is something they've said every time there sibling has shown up (like Literally in the We Will Be Reunited its the first thing they say) It's about catharsis and it wasn't forgotten there's physical proof (The Picture) that's exists Memories whats real or not real wishes and how they all connect is Genshins story. Even if the Traveler remembered it doesn't change the fact that they need to find out the TRUTH It's doesn't make there convictions stronger or change there perspective it was just there as a Somber Moment

[@Accountthatexists]

@@demonking-zm3rs of what is read here......is massive cope and complete random defense of it, like "traveler is a developed char" REALLY, then WHY is there personality SO FLAT, and goals make NO SENSE........MASSIVE COPE

[@demonking-zm3rs]

@@Accountthatexists Why is it a Cope? Like you haven't actually addressed anything specifically? The Traveler has had many moments of characterization. Like the two from my last comment but you know when you pick an option your just wording out what the Traveler says There no choices you dialogue is just how the Traveler speaks but there easily annoyed like to poke fun at Paimon but cares deeply about them is arrogant and even sometimes rude And as for goals they've said it themselves while gathering information about there sibling they are there to help people. If your looking for Shonen style "development" then sorry to say that's isn't here but not having melodrama isn't the same as " No development" There a contrast between Monstade Traveler and Fontaine You litteraly just have to read what they say when there talking

[@nimbusykz2288]

my biggest problem with the traveller is the carelessness that their past and characterization is handled with. theyre allegedly an extremely old entity that has been to and seen so many worlds, but we never get any insight (show NOR tell) into how this has shaped them as a person. has this made them or or less empathetic to the problems that the people in each world face? how do they feel about forming friendships with people they will never see again? do they have the true capacity to get invested in other peoples problems at all, after being alive for so long? and what sucks is that some situations see them being EXTREMELY invested (dunyarzad, teppei, their hatred of the fatui, etc) and in some cases they barely seem to give a shit and only go along with things for entertainment (they seem to hate childe and not care when he gets arrested but also hang out with him just because). its so inconsistent and seems to be based on what is necessary for the plot. immortal characters should be more interesting than this. you could also make the argument that they only really start to care about the world when their twin tells them to find the truth about the world and complete their journey, but that really feels like a contrivance instead of a reasonable explanation also, i hate how they are so insistent as pushing the traveler as a catalyst for major events and the savior of every nation when they barely have a reason to even care and are barely a character. why not involve more of the playable characters in meaningful ways? i think the recent nations have been a great step in this direction, but its a lot more obvious in the mondstadt-inazuma, ESPECIALLY inazuma, that the traveler is the mvp

[@catdownthestreet]

I personally don't mind Paimon, but I literally lose it every time Traveler speaks for themselves. Maybe this is because I chose Lumine and I love her voice, idk. I just want her to talk more, because I want to know what kind of person she is. I have noticed that Lumine seems to be getting more desperate to find Aether in Natlan. A lot of her conversations with people from the Scions of the Canopy especially seem to indicate that she's branching out to see if anyone can help her find her brother, which I see as a result of Bedtime Story. She's getting tired of just running around with no luck. I wish this was actually shown on screen in the main quest rather than just in dialogue with NPCs. It just sucks that Lumine doesn't really get her own voice for the sake of gacha game silent protagonist, despite clearly having a life outside of the player. LET MY GIRL SPEAK PLEASE

[@Zakading]

With ZZZ, Hoyo even ditched the "gacha protag needs to be silent" thing considering Belle and Wise both are very much their own characters with their own opinions and reactions to things. It's not just the same char but male/female but actually different people entirely, with plenty of voice lines and personality. Here's hoping they start adapting some of these aspects into Genshin as well, since it has a far more interesting plot than ZZZ but just completely wastes its protagonist.

[@littlemissdior1610]

“having a life outside of the player”…you do realize this Lumine you’re referring to is a fictional character right?

[@Z-FishInMyBreakfast]

@@littlemissdior1610 thank you captain obvious

[@lelouch6865]

​@@littlemissdior1610 fictional characters having a life outside of the main story in games especially is a good thing for immersion Your comment doesn't really work in this case whatsoever imo

[@littlemissdior1610]

@@lelouch6865 talk about immersion while can't even differentiate fictional versus reality. And the fact that you thought you actually did something... You think all these pixels think on their own? And not because a writer and a developer programmed them to seem so? I can't- Your comment not only doesn't even try to act like it worked in this case, but it also proves me right. Like you really just slapped yourself in the face right there and didn't even know...

[@plainsalt]

My biggest issue with the traveler is their relation to the plot. I cannot buy the idea that we're just witnesses when it comes to their sibling, I just can't. To me personally, It feels like a cheap excuse to drag out the plot and I've thought that since they first said it. I don't beleive that the most they can do is ask the archons about the siblings. Really the most they can do is wander around hoping to find info because we were told we would meet at the end? They should be doing independent research about the abyss, try to go on expeditions, anything to learn more about the abyss, a quest about going into a library to learn more and we find someone who knows something that could be useful. Another thing is that it's so baffling that we had posters put up in Liyue, and we tell others about the missing sibling, but we almost never actually share info about them that could actually help others help us. We should be sharing the things we've learned. I also wish we learned more about the travels they've been on prior to everything. We know the supposed prince/princess of the abyss is the sibling and we just sit on that info! I get that that would make them a target as well but we're so popular and so many people owe us that I can't imagine the people in power being too upset about it. We don't even seek out Dainsleif much, we just bump into him.

[@millie567]

"They should be doing independent research about the abyss, try to go on expeditions, anything to learn more about the abyss, a quest about going into a library to learn more and we find someone who knows something that could be useful. " ...Yeah, like Enjou (part of the Abyss, but an okay guy otherwise) or Mondstadt's library(most of which was "mysteriously" burned 500 years or so ago). Maybe they could even ask if they can join Dainsleif on his travels, even for a while... But they are not doing that or other things that can help them learn more about their sibling, because it's not that important next to meeting new (sellable) characters, it seems.

[@Jardrin]

What's even weirder now that you mention the wanted posters is that nobody has ever seen the Twin at all. Like, yes. I know they are kind of reclusive due to their position. But the fact not a single person in the entire game besides Dain has ever seen them at any point is a little hard to believe.

[@millie567]

@@Jardrin Yeah, especially immortals and half immortals. Even before 500 years ago, they never saw the Traveler's Twin...? And yet somehow, the Twin is acquainted with the Aranara. Maybe their shared love for hiding really has a part in it...?

[@AdalynnCaelgirien]

@@millie567 I'd lowkey consider the twin "erasing" themselves from irminsul - obviously not to on the level as Wanderer did, but to some extent, since it truly is unlikely that nobody (that is human or archon) has ever seen (or even heard of) another strangely dressed traveller in the past.

[@zydeox1221]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1869">31:09</a> Kinda crazy the traveler can pull that shit off in cutscenes and be a D tier character in most lists. It's like this is the character with the most cutscenes in the game, just make it an actual 5 star character, not a false one. Dendro traveler is the only exception to the rule and can give some solid off field dendro application, but it still falters in comparison to the units at the top of the game.

[@KadaEklund]

Hu tao cant even properly hold her polearm but is stronger than Diluc in game.

[@eggnog4266]

​@@KadaEklundlol xiangling is literally just a chef and is also more powerful than diluc in the game

[@Lynemn]

Mualani lost a fight against Kachina...

[@AnimeTrueking]

​@@Lynemnthe thing is in the story 4 star and 5 star char Don't exist

[@Zakading]

I'm hoping that they'll allow quick-swapping the Traveler's elements after we get Cryo as well before possibly/probably(?) introducing another new, not as common one for Dainsleif that might give the Traveler some more usability just due to having fewer options/a more niche use. A fully kitted 6-element Traveler able to swap between elements mid-combat (heck, maybe even mix-and-match talents) just as a character to really use for utility or to personalize, even if not top-tier meta, would be so fun.

[@lathamtk]

You're 100% right. The Genshin story is good and has deep lore, & worldbuilding, but the way they tell this story is just about the worst way you can go about it. Traveler (and Paimon reiterating everything that was just said) are at the centre of the problem. Hoyo needs to understrand its "show, don't tell" instead of "tell, don't show, and have Paimon reiterate things so just even the 8-year-olds get it"

[@hpropganda]

what the. I feel like I've seen you somewhere before, or just someone with a similar pfp.

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

Good Idea but shitty way of doing it

[@crocworks]

One interesting take on the silent protagonist is how Persona 4's anime adaptation handles Yu Narukami. He's a silent protagonist in the game, but then they gave him a chaotic deadpan personality in the anime, and it seems to reflect how the player can pick some of the craziest or ridiculous dialogue options. Also, I hated how they handled the power scaling between Traveler and the Knave since they pretty much didn't show Traveler at their strongest. I can't remember a single elemental ability used during the cutscene. That one was just lazy.

[@braincelldeficient4183]

Personally I wish Traveler would at least read out the voicelines we pick😭. I also personally think we needed more companions besides Paimon, similar to HSR and how they handled Pom-Pom. I personally think the starter characters or even just Amber would have been fine just to take away from how much Paimon talks. I like Paimon in theory, but since they talk so much, I think I have fatigue from her voice.

[@mschemi4886]

I completely agree with the traveller at least saying the lines we choose. I can't stand Paimon. Her voice is annoying and she's annoying. And there is way too much unnecessary dialogue. I have a lot of time to play but many don't, and too many quests consist of reading dialogue for an hour and not much gameplay. Banter dialogue is overdone in my opinion. We can do without it

[@Zakading]

Also, whenever there's longer Traveler dialogue in quests where you can choose answers, but you don't actually choose because both options are just one statement, I really wish they'd just make the Traveler talk without even stopping the flow of the cutscene through those choices.

[@Jardrin]

I know people are tired of Itto in events, but I like how he interacts with Paimon. It adds a kind of dynamic that I wish was more prevalent in the game outside specific events. Not having other Traveling companions does hurt them more than you'd think. Especially Paimon, due to the Traveler... rarely ever speaking, leading to their dynamic being very one sided. (Which is jarring when looking at the profile Voice lines where they DO have a dynamic all because the Traveler actually speak in them)

[@Jardrin]

@@Zakading Another thing that kind of ruins the flow at times is whenever the Traveler has internal thoughts... That is completely silent, which stands out like a sore thumb during an otherwise fully voiced scene.

[@Star14Light]

@@mschemi4886I love Paimon though, the only thing annoying is we get nothing from her lore wise and such aside from moments she’s mostly in charge with replying and interacting with anyone whilst the traveller stands in the corner 🧍🏻

[@mirwaksho1385]

I feel like in the end it all boils down to paimon. For me she should have been a gimmick character like pom Pom in hsr, who is just there to be cute and serve as like icons,logos or just to be a mascot. The existence of paimon for me kinda ruins so many moments in the game, especially during character quest, where we (the traveler) are having a deep conversation with said character and bonding with them, but then paimon starts speaking and ruins the moment. There’s also the fact that half the stuff paimon says, is stuff that was already repeated by characters, not to mention dialogue where she is the one mostly talking feels stiff and doesn’t progress naturally , ADDITIONALLY if you think about it, since paimon does most of the talking, where does that leave characters who have a crush for the traveler? They aren’t falling for the traveler because of what they say,since paimon is speaking for them, instead they are falling for what paimon says? Thats really weird. To this day I still think that if you remove paimon from important quests, nothing would change, anything she says could have been said by other characters or the traveler, because as of right now I literally don’t see any reason for her to even be in quests in the first place

[@Accountthatexists]

Paimon has some good moments MAINLY her dynamic with itti..........but her good moments whete she can be a CHARACTER is so little cause 99% time she's recounting the plot or travelers talking peice

[@GoldLight73]

My biggest issue for Paimon is that she is SUPPOSED to be the players' guide around Teyvat, but she doesn't do that like... At all. She genuinely seems clueless about most locations she and the traveler visit, leaving her with little to do but repeat info, ask questions the Traveler could ask themselves, or sometimes make jokes. I think the most she ever contributed in the actual plot was helping to escape the dream in Sumeru.

[@claire.john6728]

SPIT YOUR FACTS BROTHER 🗣️ totally agree I wish paimon was just a gimmick I remember being so relived starting starrail and realizing pompom was just a mascot and the trailblazer could just talk and act on their own

[@Jinni-iras17514]

What moments did paimon ruin? (JP dub player btw)

[@mirwaksho1385]

@@Jinni-iras17514 the biggest examples that comes to mind are: ei second story quest, she is reminiscing and mourning the death of her sister, paimon, with her goofy voice lets out a “oh ei” interrupting her essentially, and killing the connection between her and the traveler, because she is there being a weird third wheel. Ayakas entire story quest tbh, the traveler barely speaks a word and paimon does the talking, yet Ayaka falls for them, again, killing the connection the traveler and by extension, us the player, would have with her. It’s these personal moments where characters share with us that become SUPER awkward with this tone deaf goofy creature speaking.

[@thylionheart]

For me personally, the biggest clash between self-insert and own-character happened during the most recent Lantern Rite, with Gaming and his father. The way the Traveler and Paimon meddled with the father-son relationship of this dude who they literally met _3 days ago_ made me so upset. As someone who has friends whose relationships with a parent are strained, I would never do or condone tricking your new friend into having to spend a long period of time with their estranged parent _while doing their literal job._ Especially when this new friend who I just met tells me that once time one of their fights got so bad, he was afraid it would come to blows. Like you just do _not_ insert yourself into people’s familial relations like that, and in my eyes the only reason Gaming didn’t blow up at the Traveler and stop being friends with them after they stomped all over his personal boundaries is because _the writers knew they wanted him to repair this relationship_ and already knew what ending they wanted. It was a case of the writers shoving the ending they wanted onto events and actions that, for me personally, gave me such bad anxiety that I had to take long breaks from the Lantern Rite quest. I kept thinking, “I would never do this. I hate that I’m being forced to do this.” Which is one of the major pitfalls of having a character like the Traveler who flip flops between being a self-insert and being their own character.

[@bee4009]

Same??? it felt wayyy too invasive for me... i was waiting for gaming to get upset with the traveler or SOMEthing but it never really happened and it was kinda disappoing to me

[@Aiyume7]

oh my god thank you, you are the first person i see say something about that. i stopped doing that quest the moment they started forcing it upon me, it felt so damn yuck (and insert some of my own real-world trauma), i almost uninstalled the game.

[@bubblesparks]

I skipped last lantern rite story so I have no idea at all that the story went like that. Gaming was out after furina story quest right? It's so weird that traveler behaves like that again after what he did in furina's sq. Traveler was also very harsh and invasive to furina over some silly npc request, as a player I would never push Furina to face her trauma like that and instead just give her a little time to settle. Its especially very weird for traveller bc they are the only one besides neuvi who witnessed how hurt and tired Furina was after acting for so long.

[@Lucky_Dagger]

I definitely liked the story around Gaming about geerational differences but the traveler was not the best catalyst for the story. Which is probably why Xianyun was the actual catalyst and as someone who has known Gaming for longer and is also a meddling auntie type she fit far better. Traveler going along with it was a bit messy.

[@rainblue4789]

2023 LR was very divisive for cultural and personal perspective reasons honestly a lot were uncomfy for the boundary breaking and invasive behavior, which is fair, but kinda came off as ignorant? the west/EU especially seemed to forget they were playing a CN game and this particular event was entirely based on CN culture, so it likely wouldn't align with their own values, or be as relatable it's interesting because there were SO MANY players, particularly those in asian countries, that spoke up on how they WISHED they had someone willing to boldly speak up and intervene for them like the characters did, because their own parent or whoever, won't listen to them; like Gaming and his Dad - some were pretty upset that so many people were just trampling all over this very personal story for them, mindlessly calling it awful, 100% not OK, etc etc, without considering anything but themselves and their own culture norms, it's a shame really personally the only thing that actually bothered me was how Traveler was so sloppily shoehorned into it all, as they almost always are, it's my biggest gripe with the whole game

[@MarianaPall]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1702">28:22</a> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINTING THIS! I wish honestly that they would act more suspicious/careful/distant around Raiden and how they grow closer with time, like how it happened with Wanderer (Im not a fan of Wanderer's "redemption" but at least they did this right). Off: I also wish Signora was more present in quests(she was killed off way too soon), because if you read the texts that talk about her and the meager interactions she had with Wanderer, for example, she sounds like a delightful villain, petty but she also had a kinda a sweet side to her (Arlecchino's voice line about her makes me so mad that we will not see them interact in game, goddamit!).

[@AngelixWings]

No hate ( wanderer never had a redemption arc he isn't even tryna redeem himself he's just healing 😹 ) adding that emoji bc it's kinda funny when I remember what he said AND I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT THE TRAVELLER THING BC LIKE IS IT A SELF INSERT CHARACTER OR NOT

[@AngelixWings]

I believe signora will be restructured (trust) *I'm just coping* 😭

[@grqfes]

@@AngelixWings that signora pack has already been smoked long ago my friend 🚬🚬

[@rainblue4789]

my gripe with Wanderer's "redemption" is that it honestly wasn't one ruined any potential for an interesting dynamic with him an Kazuha, when they spent so long building up all that cool and depressing lore between them

they can't do that with the waifus or the genshin incels will be mad at hoyoverse for not making the female characters instantly obsessed and in love with their self insert mc lol

[@am_a_tem6597]

My problem with the traveller is that we keep getting told that they’re super strong, yet I don’t think that we’ve actually finished a fight without help. Traveller couldn’t beat Raiden without Yae Miko’s weird deus ex machina, couldn’t beat scaramouche without nahida’s help, etc. etc. I just wish the traveller would win at least one fight against an actually powerful enemy alone.

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

Strong but not at archon level. How's that not consistent? Traveler always need help.

[@Doralga]

@@planetary-rendez-vous Arleccino isn't Archon level either and she blitz Traveler with help their buddy Inconsistent part one

[@erdenesaikhanamgalanhyiag8351]

@@Doralga I think 5 element traveler is stronger than pre summeru scaramouche at least

[@drpaimon2369]

​@@DoralgaArlecchino isn't very far away from archon level either. Travelers strength has been consistentent, consistently not super powerful. Their real power lies in their ability to resonate with beliefs. Traveler is good at gaining temporary buffs, but on his own strength he's pretty weak. The only unbuffed fight he won was against Signora. That was on his own strength. (And no he didn't beat Tartaglia. After the first phase Tartaglia litterary already wins the first duel. The second fight Traveler only wins because Tartaglia gets exhausted of the transformation.) And really Paimon is the only one who says the traveler is super strong, and for her that makes sense.

[@Doralga]

@@drpaimon2369 sounds like an excuse buddy if Arleccino was near Archon level why wasn't she sent to Inazuma to deal with Ei or Mavuika in Natlan sounds like the Fatui just know the script and know they'll get the gnosis with no effort How can the Traveler not beat Childe if Signora is ranked higher and stated to be stronger but traveler solo her see buddy the inconsistency.

[@labrava7004]

Another dichotomy that bothers me is the archon quests vs. the "Dansleif quests" as the latter often aren't triggered by the crises we faced in the nation and didn't include any of the characters we met in the nations which they don't have to do but sometimes it makes me feel like I am going through two completely different stories and that makes our time in the nations feel like side quests while waiting for our next meeting with Dansleif. I am happy that the abyss has a more prominent role in Natlan and I hope that's where the connexion between the events with the Fatui and the abyss will connect.

[@pri6067]

I second this. Often times i find myself playing through the archon quest and asking myself if the writers remember what the plot was supposed to be? Like we just go, witness and solve all the drama thats going on in the nation (casually starts happening right when we arrive btw) and then maybe learn something through one line the archon says (And that was only with Nahida, all the other times it was just fruitless). And i’ve seen people say it’s because they don’t wanna rush it and disclose information too soon, but how is it rushing? We’re already at the sixth region (out of SEVEN) and we nearly don’t know anything about our sibling, heavenly principles, the fatui and the gnoses, or the abyss. It genuinely makes me feel like the story is going nowhere and that they’re just gonna reveal everything at the end and the rest of the story is gonna end up being useless. Wtf is hoyo doing

[@JustaGhostDragoon]

@@pri6067 to be fair to hoyo their players can barely read and often bring up the brother / sister as a plot point despite the sibling telling us to search the truth of the world because they A: skipped all the dialogue or B: can't read if anything hoyo gave the players base to much credit and has to hammer in plot points or they won't get it people complain about paimon but without her they'd be even more lost

[@fingerb0nes]

@@JustaGhostDragoon People would read the dialog if it had more meaning. But often you dont get a lot out of reading it, so people skip it.

[@boyfriendkisser]

I found it interesting how the traveler isn't as forgiving and empathetic as typical shonen protagonists, so they aren't quick to absolve their sibling (like they want to believe they can be on the same side again but they're not denying that it might not happen) & they hold a grudge against the fatui. but even this is inconsistent because after acting so betrayed when finding out lyney and lynette are fatui, you can bump into childe and choose super positive dialogue options with him. that was jarring for me

[@CryoKonk]

The Childe thing bothered me the most. Last we left off with him (the end of his story quest) we were threatening to kill him while he was down in the bank, and now suddenly we bump into him and are acting all friendly as if we forgot he’s a literal terrorist

[@persephonehades7547]

@@CryoKonk It bothers me more that we acted like Lyney and Lynette killed our family. We did show empathy for Childe at the end of his story quest too.

[@ezioasasyn2394]

There is literally no reason for Traveler to be silent. The choices are virtually nonexistent, therefore, the VA's don't really have to work any harder than if they were voicing any other character. And making them speak doesn't necessarily conflict with Paimon's existance. Have Paimon be her own character, maybe act as a narrator of sorts, and let the Traveler speak their lines. They never worked as self inserts focused on player agency, since there always have been little agency to begin with. They were bland, sure, but just because of being silent where they shouldn't be. Not because they were supposed to be self inserts. And the weirdest part about it is that Hoyo could seemlessly change them from being silent to voiced, since the main excuse is how they can't fluently speak the language. Just say that they have finally reached enough skill that they can talk normally, otherwise if they end up becoming the Pyro Archon, just have that unlock higher mastery over the language of Teyvat. Hoyo can change it so easily, and yet they prefer to have Paimon yap, and have the players hate her more and more. That would also solve the issue of Paimon's VA doing like 80% of all spoken lines in Genshin. I get it that Paimon is the mascot of Genshin, but in Celestia we will have to separate the two of them anyway. Besides, March 7th is also the mascot and she yaps way less than Paimon.

[@starkiller1289]

The thing is canonically they know how to talk to folks before they even left Mondstat apparently Paimon taught them offscreen commenting that they are a fast learner through voicelines not to mention the fact they have been in multiple Lantern Rite Festivals by now which means they have been bumming around Teyvat for several years at this point talking shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[@ezioasasyn2394]

@@starkiller1289 Even more of a reason why they should have been voiced from the get go. Not to mention how they have so many voicelines and banter with Paimon that most people never bother to look up, so if Hoyo had put all of it into actual story dialogue it would improve the narrative a lot. Even if they didn't want to fully voice them (if they did we could be saying wuwa could never), they could just do what Wuthering Waves or HSR does. Mix voiced and unvoiced dialogue so that it at least becomes believable and doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

[@adriandaliva1341]

in yoimiya's story quest when she asked the "traveler" how's your sister, IT'S PAIMON WHO ANSWERS, NOT YOUR TRAVELER like WTF that's so weird 😂

[@KingMufasa_8]

They're canonically shy

[@ezioasasyn2394]

@@KingMufasa_8 Sucrose's shy too. And yet she talks 3-4 times as much as they do.

[@lt_rainbowslash58]

Genshin would honestly be a much better game if Lumine and Aether were just normal characters, voiced and all

[@RAZORlukic]

Man I remember being so god damn pissed when TRaveler was soo rude to Furina in her story quest... like WHY... We established everything that hapened, I would have expected him to at least try to understand her.

[@Jardrin]

And then for some reason, during the farewell scene before Natlan. Furina's tells them to "Remember the good memories we made together" or something like that... That coming out of her mouth is baffling given they don't exactly have the greatest memories with what happened. Sure, they're mostly on friendly terms now, but it's like she just suddenly forgot all the things the Traveler put her through.

[@MarcoCam1314]

@@Jardrin Ik right? I was expecting an emotional encounter with Furina, being super sorry about what happened and trying to work with her so she knwos we only did what we did because we were pressed for time about the profecy and didnt know the actual extent of her plan beforehand. At least would expect them to feel sorry about not believing in her, the stress we got her through or even get a satisfying resolution where we earn her forgiveness. But noooooooo, she forgives us(?) behind the scenes at some unknown point in time for unknown reasons and we dont even care about her until the quest we get from the Guild makes us consider her help. I didnt do her quest to see Paimon's Roasting Hour, i felt so bad during the quest that we dont even try to make her feel better or comfort her as the friend the narrative tells us we are. Kinda seem like we are just some assholes with poor room reading skills. WE TREATED TARTAGLIA BETTER WTF.

[@klng1285]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1339">22:19</a>: Goddamn, well said. Hoyo really thinks throwing us a fuking wall of text and calling it a day = having good lore. Writing a good idea without good execution is just bullshitting, and many ppl can do that with some research

[@dipayanchoudhury2720]

True man, a lot of people in the genshin community think that having an interesting lore = a good story, when it doesn't matter how detailed the lore is if the game doesn't ever make much good use of it.

[@ping-x7m]

@@dipayanchoudhury2720i dont really like it when an entity have so many different names. Im trying to understand the story but the amount of names referring to a single thing are so confusing

[@dipayanchoudhury2720]

@@ping-x7m I get it, some of the terminology can be really confusing.

[@adamjsher04]

Traveler and Paimon, imo, have the potential to be so much more as characters, but their writing is just SO inconsistent between archon quests, world quests, hangouts, character quests etc. I'm probably one of maybe 6 people who doesn't mind how overly spoken Paimon is, but the Traveler NEEDS to be given more dialogue in quests to bounce off of her, whether in agreement, disagreement, or just a differing perspective. Plus, for as much as Paimon questions the Traveler's past or thoughts sometimes, the Traveler SHOULD do the same to Paimon. So many times now has there been moments where we're seemingly gonna start getting answers about her but the topic gets DROPPED for no reason! It's like the most frustrating theory bait they could write. Now, this problem *has* been getting better overly the last few regions imo but they still slip up quite a bit. For me I think the biggest flop of both of their writing was Furina's post Archon character quest where both Trav' and Paimon were made absolutely insufferable in how they treated Furina. It feels sometimes like Traveler and Paimon are wrote by COMPLETELY different writers with a vague idea of the character like different comic authors writing the same characters such as Batman or Spiderman and I can't take how they get wrote seriously outside of main archon quests. ALSO, they NEED to start reflecting Travelers actual power in gameplay. We see how Trav' is capable of changing and utilizing elements at will and hell, even in unison during Liyue when they fight Childe. There is ZERO reason at LEAST for having to travel to different nations statues of the seven to change elements when they could SO easily implement a swapping function in the character menu much like Trailblazer and March 7th in Star Rail. That and maybe saving loadouts between the different elemental forms so you can actually build the different traveler forms in a convenient way. But we all know Genshin is just allergic to convenience.

[@kayleighdriessen]

I agree on your points, like allow Paimon to be talkative which can also work as a flaw like if she's prone to interrupt others in conversation coming off as a little insensitive which she sometimes gets called out on but Traveler should atleast be able to talk to other characters more with and without Paimon like they're taking turns to speak as a balanced duo not as an extrovert assuming their quiet introvert-friend doesn't like talking and pushing the introvert into the background in group-coversations.

[@lagtduckgirl7993]

I agree Also every time someone brings up the furina quest they always overlook that the traveler is being a dick as well for no reason (AND I LIKE PAIMON)

[@adamjsher04]

@lagtduckgirl7993 YES. I have no idea why everybody overlooks that Traveler is ALSO an ass in that quest

[@jeffreyali1456]

you act like he was that rude throughout the quest when in reality, he was kind of an ass at the start when thinking about Furina to do the play when he knew the truth but that was pretty much it, while Paimon said way more insulting comments, and twisting her arm constantly and didn’t really comfort her until the very end.

[@princemannic]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="944">15:44</a> its really interesting to me that during ganyu's story quest they watch ganyu LITERALLY BULLY a fatui who was out picking flowers and there are dialogue options to JOIN IN like i've never felt so separate from the protagonist

[@MauveButterfly]

The worst traveler moment for me was in an unvoiced side quest at the beginning of Inazuma. The traveler had always been portrayed as someone who was generally helpful to people around them, but this one time you find someone locked in a cage, and after rescuing him, the traveler and Paimon suddenly threaten to torture him unless he tells them where the treasure is. I could tell that the scene was being played out for laughs, but it just felt so out of character that I couldn't enjoy it at all, and they kept up the act for the rest of the quest.

[@pochu9506]

If I'm not mistaken, when you meet that dude, we're already aware that the guy is a problematic person to his parents, that's why we make fun of him.

[@mylariane3675]

The same thing happened during Ganyu's quest. I know it was before we became friends with Tartaglia, but it still felt pretty jarring to see a Fatui picking berries, immediately conclude that he is up to no good, only let him go once we've beaten him within an inch of his life and he's been proven innocent, then turn around and say "well even if he was innocent it's always pretty fun to beat up the Fatui." Like what the heck...

[@ironshinobi9384]

⁠​⁠@@mylariane3675traveler have never like the fatui it more out of character to befriend them for example with lyney after finding out who he is want nothing to do with them after the case, she also try to end tartagila during his story quest than inazuma with signora same with hat guy

[@CGFillertext]

My least favorite traveler moment was the Gorou hangout where they decide to keep Miss Hina a secret. The whole time I was thinking ‘No! I want to tell Gorou! He deserves to know!’ but you only get options to lie to his face

[@no-do4pv]

​@@CGFillertext he still dosen't know till this day, even Kokomi isnt telling him💀

[@LambsEyesPNG]

I don't know if it's just me, but I played through Liyue and Tartaglia's story quest, and if I'm remembering correctly, he doesn't show up again until Fontaine. The Traveler is so wary and uncompassionate towards the Fatui, and Tartaglia hadn't apologized or really showed remorse for what he did even once. I got the impression that the Traveler was still upset with him, and when I got to Fontaine, they were suddenly very chummy with each other and I got really confused. When Traveler got THAT mad at Lyney and Lynette, I got pretty angry because Tartaglia's actions were so much worse, and while it wasn't great that Lyney and Lynette hid their identities, Tartaglia not only initially hid his identity, he endangered an entire nation. So if they're gonna be how they're gonna be at Fatui, shouldn't they be more angry and cold towards him instead of the twins? To be consistent, they either need to be more compassionate about Lyney and Lynette or be angry with Tartaglia and less tolerant with Wanderer. Idk if he apologized or something in an event quest I missed, but he hasn't from my knowledge, and even if he did, something like that shouldn't be in a one-off event, right? It feels like that's way too important to lock behind a limited event and basically turn it into a "you had to be there" moment. My memory isn't the best so if i got something wrong or missed something, don't hesitate to correct me. But these are just my thoughts at present.

[@Aiyume7]

No cause i felt the exact same. Plus, when the hell would Lyney and Lynette get to say they are Fatui? "Hi my good sir my sis and i, members of the Fatui" sounds like hell of an introduction??? And then later there was simply not one good opportunity for them to do it. And i love Childe with my whole heart but dude lied, tried to kill off a whole damn city and never said even an "oops" but no he's a cutie patootie and we are besties, wtf? Traveller and Paimon are the epitome of double standard dumbassery.

[@kylegreen6711]

Tartaglia never hid his identity. Literally one of the first things he does is introduce himself as a Harbinger. I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to separate greater societal harm from personal harm. Traveler was personally betrayed by Lyney and Lynette but never by Tartaglia.

[@anaplaysstuff]

Between Liyue and Fontaine we also ran into Tartaglia during two different limited time events in Inazuma. One was the flagship 2.2 event. The other was...I forget what the actual event was but it was possible to run across him hanging out with Yoimiya and some kids (but missable). Anyway, he didn't apologize and the Traveler and Paimon still treated him like someone that should be handled with caution (in particular in the latter event, the Traveler specifically warns Yoimiya about him being dangerous). So yeah...we got to see more of him but I wouldn't say their relationship got any warmer (except Tartaglia is quite happy to see us as a rival-friend). So it was still weird to see both the Traveler and Paimon be like, "oh, Childe, that silly scamp is starting fights again, how funny," when we run into him in Fontaine.

[@Male_Ficent]

The traveller is more familiar to Tartaglia than Lyney and Lynette. They've also fought against and with him a couple times before (we meet him again in an Inazuma event) so they basically have an idea on how he operates. Same thing could not be said about L&L.

[@LambsEyesPNG]

@@kylegreen6711 Oh, is that what happened? I guess I forgot, thanks for clearing that up. I still think it's odd though. The Traveler being so friendly with Tartaglia feels like they're glazing over everything bad he did, like it's still greater societal harm. And I'm not saying they should have been completely okay with Lyney and Lynette after the reveal, I think it's okay for them to feel upset and betrayed, but I think they could've been a bit more compassionate, all things considering. I'm all for forgiveness and that sort of thing, but that's not really how Traveler is written. Not to mention, he still hasn't really apologized.

[@silvermuramasa8008]

SOMEONE FINALLY CALLED THIS OUT, THANK CHRIST.

[@EmmaSmoke]

I don’t mind the Traveler being silent so much. I hate the “illusion of choice” with dialogue options, but it’s whatever, you know? I honestly think it’s purposeful because Hoyoverse will give us one actually damning choice near the end of the game. I have two main issues with Paimon, though. The first isn’t all that important, but she’s kind of an asshole. I mean, Furina is the first person I point to because I love Furina and I remember being viscerally annoyed in her story quest. But Paimon is mean to so many people. She doesn’t even try to understand them. And you would think that since Paimon has canonically seen ghosts, talking animals, any of the stuff elemental power can do, she wouldn’t be so dismissive when other characters tell her things. My other issue is that she isn’t even a good guide. I know she canonically teaches Traveler the language of Tevyat. I know she taught us about the existence of the seven archons and she knew about Khaenri’ah. It just feels like the longer we journey, the less she knows about the places in Tevyat. We always have to have locals explain EVERYTHING to us, even stuff I think would be famous enough for an actual guide over all of Tevyat to know like the Akasha system or the Sauriens. I would much prefer if Paimon was an infodump instead of the Traveler’s mouthpiece. When was the last time Paimon has been an actual guide to us? When was the last time Paimon explained something about the world to the Traveler? The only reason Traveler keeps Paimon around is companionship and because they don’t know enough of the language. Traveler should have dumped Paimon the second she kept eating our food and spending our Mora without doing the job we agreed to travel with her for (I mean this statement as a joke, but I see in hindsight how it might not be read the way I intended) Edit: I should probably mention that I do genuinely like Paimon. These are just my problems with her, and yeah, I get that they’re a little nit-picky.

[@figlet6427]

Honestly the thing about paimon knowing less and less is a good point, I don't understand this one either😅 i think we honestly could have been better off with a pupil archetype character like Kachina. If she were our sidekick and we discovered stuff together, maybe it would work a little better.

[@eggi4443]

having choices in a game that doesn't have saving and loading features seems really dumb. games with choices are made that way because you can then experience different paths, have more content and you can't accidentally ruin the game you've been playing for years. genshin will not do that, it's just bad game design on a technical level

[@nv5116]

@@EmmaSmoke y'all are so sensitive sometimes but so hostile against someone you don't like, peak behavior. Stop reducing Paimon into tools. Just because she doesn't tell us much anymore (ofc since it's been minutes since MC been in the world, for sure they've been accustomed to), doesn't mean we should dump her. Paimon is MC friends who's still there when a lot of others come and go. Idk if y'all are slow or just in denial, but caribert quest and that one animated video about MC and sibling journey comparison should show the importance of Paimon in keeping MC moral, happiness, and sanity in the world. Abyss twins become like that because they're traveling with an edgelord with no ounce of good vibes.

[@Vamptre]

By the time she stopping knowing stuff, was where she was actually friends with traveler even earlier on in cutscenes she's obviously very worried about them (seen in cutscenes fighting cutscenes), in Sumeru she was extremely worried about the traveler too she has a personality it's shown in voicelines between the traveler and her it's just not displayed well in the archon quest imo everytime it's with food and mora its displayed in a joking way Though i agree with her being an asshole sometimes and i feel like they make her a bit too blunt despite the situation they're encountering I think when the traveler and her are alone together it better showcases the kind of person she is over her just repeating everything in the archon quest

[@Lynemn]

The most guide-like thing Paimon says is, "Why don't we explore this area later?"

[@RGA301092]

Traveler being silent cos they don't know Teyvat language doesn't fly as an excuse when they're clearly fluent when the game starts aka 2 months after they met Paimon.

[@jessiellanes3004]

Traveller got the best guide in Teyvat to help learn their language and still doesn't speak that feels wasted

[@Nationalist166]

İt really doesn't work as an excuse, people only use this excuse to justify Traveler's inconsistent writting, it has been 4 years since this paimon line

[@MarcoCam1314]

That wouldnt even work because the dialogue options we pick are clearly being answers, not just thoughts, so he is supposed to be talking to the people of Teyvat.

[@leegunring]

This topic has also caused some discussion in the CN community. For example, traveler always faint at critical moments, being knocked unconscious in Mondstadt, fainting in Inazuma due to miasma inhalation, and fainting in Sumeru starting and ending with fainting. At Fontaine seemed to be getting better, but 4.8 passed out again. Traveller's involvement in the affairs of other countries is limited. When the country's crisis comes from outside, Traveler can intervene in a big way, such as the Abyss Order's plot against Mondstadt. However, if corruption is involved in the local system, it can only be dealt with by other forces in the local system. For example, Inazuma's corruption was exposed by Miko and Sara, and Sumeru's academic corruption was revealed by Cyno and Alhaithem. It is therefore reasonable that traveler's behave less in Fontaine. The crisis in Fontaine is not an external intervention, it has little to do with the Abyss Order, and even Fatui wants to solve the Fontaine crisis. This is the original sin of the history of Fontaine, and there is only a limit to what the traveler can do, and the crisis of Fontaine is largely solved by the people of Fontaine themselves. In my opinion, the most fundamental drawback of the Fontaine AQ is the lack of clarity of motives. Traveler go to Mondstadt because it is a land of bards and adventurers, and there is a lot of information to circulate. The traveler went to Liyue because the archon there was the eldest, and he knew a lot about it. Traveler went to Inazuma because the archon there was a stern and powerful woman who sounded a bit like the culprit of the year. Traveler go to Sumeru because it has the largest database there. Only Fontaine, we don't understand why traveler go to Fontaine. Once we don't understand the motive, we don't know how to judge whether the traveler's behavior is justified.

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

The traveler knows nothing of those nations and that's not the main motive behind why the traveler us there. The real motive is this : that's the next closest nation and maybe the archon can tell us something about the country (and also understand the world by traveling).

[@KadaEklund]

During first Dans quest the sibling tells the traveller to go through all the nations, and when the traveller finishes this journey the true nature of the world will be revealed.

[@leegunring]

@@planetary-rendez-vous Mondstadt's information was told by Paimon, Liyue's information was told by Venti, and Inazuma's information was told by Zhongli & Kazuha, so the traveler didn't travel to a new country aimlessly without knowing anything.

[@hxppythxughts7149]

​​@@KadaEklundbasically their twin said like this "Yo, so.. I kinda lazy explaining things to ya. Why doncha go to vacation while I here plotting to destroy the world?" And their twin replied like, "Cool idea yo, if by the nature of the world you mean being an errand boy/girl solving their local issues completely unrelated to yer abyss order or something, or the unknown god that seperated us... so yea, think that'll do."

[@Crunchycrunkybro]

Traveler does faint in fontaine too in from of the fountain of lucine (right before the navia and clorinde vs gardemeks) not to mention traveler does nothing in thay cutscene. Even silver and melus did more than traveler.

[@regex2660]

I recently came back to Genshin for 5.0 Archon Quest. Then, I decided to go back to complete the characters' story quest. The Arlechinno story quest singlehandedly made me hate the writing team at hoyo with how dumb they made the Traveler and Paimon. And I'm not talking about the final fight. If anything, it's the least problematic part of the quest. When the kid said "Mother", both the Traveler and Paimon was getting confused, naturally, because Arlechinno calls herself "Father". So they SHOULD'VE started doubting that maybe the kid wasn't talking about Arlechinno, right? No, in the very next conversation, the Traveler and Paimon thinks that Arlechinno is the one doing all the horrible stuff. What? Seriously? This single moment ruined the quest for me that I just can't appreciate the finale.

[@MarcoCam1314]

For me is the fact that i have to even be relating myself with a child abuser, who also works as spy, assassin and political destabilazation agent of fantasy Gestapo. Like the sole fact i have to be near such a character while the Traveler, MY TRAVELER just goes along with it like the previously mentioned issues where slightly personality quirks makes me enjoy less the time i waste doing that quest. I just skipped all the dialogue and read the important parts of it from the wiki. Was kinda getting tired of it already.

[@fa14bi-78]

​@@MarcoCam1314 We were clearly forced and pressured to be with Arlecchino in the quest. Come with me or Lyney, Lynette and Freminet will die, you will possibly as well. The Traveler knew from the beginning that they wouldn't be a match to her as well, they already lost 168 times to Harbinger number 6. What choice did they have but to obey her?

[@MarcoCam1314]

@@fa14bi-78 That really does nothing to help or change the situation. Im still forced to related to someone so heinous and then the game frames it as us being buddy buddy after the fact. My Traveler still relatesto her after the whole jig is up and does so as well with the other playable harbringers.

[@mitchsz]

I don't like this in-between too. In fact I prefer set protagonists, like ZZZ where both siblings have a different personality and both participate in the story at the same time.

[@isnt_itkingstar]

Making the traveler silent makes some pretty silly moments when thw traveler is just staring at someone while they are crying or something

[@fnln3011]

One odd silent traveler moment that stood out to me was the wide eyed recruit exchange being between Childe and Paimon.

[@MarcoCam1314]

you dont get it, he is projecting his emotions onto his friends, that way they display them for him and get to feel 10000 time worse :)

[@thatgoodsucc6928]

The one thing that will always annoy me about the Arcon quest is that the traveler is so strong that they could literally beat everyone in the room, but somehow random NPC will have like leverage and whenever someone’s the traveler could easily save them, but they just don’t.

[@thatgoodsucc6928]

This has been more prevalent recently with the Sumuru quest where Delilh the ( I can’t spell ) is about to get her arm cut off, and the traveler just sticks their hand out and says noooooo like they can’t go in there and just beat everybody to stop it

[@willydonka1041]

The Arlechinno fight genuinely pissed me off so much, it ruined the entire quest which I was already very 'eh alright' about due to the entire story being spoiled by the cinematic the released alongside the release (like why would they do that?) She didn't use a single god damn element in that fight, she has FIVE ELEMENTS and she didnt use a SINGLE ONE? Then arlechinno has the balls to say 'not strong enough to beat me' like what? They didn't even fight you properly you cannot 'tell dont show' that, I am not convinced arlechinno actually won that fight just because why does she get abilities but the traveler DOESNT? The trav can hold up an entire giant's mech hand but needs effort to break little spikes? Also, them pulling out some random shit with the crimson moon (that the traveler inexplicably knows about? I just went "Oh yeah, of fucking course, the 'crimson moon' yeah fucking amazing that I know what that is too!" (I didnt know, but somehow the traveler DOES, how is that a self fucking insert?) The knowledge and emotional gaps of the player and traveler are fucking *huge*, I didn't give a shit about teppei, when he died I 1. knew it was going that way, so it wasnt even a surprise, 2. Wondered why the fuck they acted like scara killed their brother lmao And the crimson moon thing, when was this ever mentioned in the story? I know its mentioned in random books, but does Hoyo expect everyone to read every single book to understand the 'lol random bullshit that traveler knows but you dont, GO!!!!" And their power is unconvincing and completely misused, now they're trying to force it in Natlan despite stepping on it and making it inconsequential for the whole story. Like wow, the pyro statue doesn't work? unlucky why do I care? Clearly them getting elements does fucking nothing for them, so why is it a plot point? why is this some surprise? you don't use your 5 elements anyway why does pyro suddenly matter, why should I be INTERESTED? And the pay off to this will probably be some pointless part of the story that also gets ruined by them saying a single word or nothing at all... Genshin's way of presenting the story is so messy and mishandled, I feel like they have no idea what they're actually doing and they always manage to add SOMETHING that makes the story go from alright to 'why would you even say that' (Neuvilette mentioning the fontaine pregnancy, why would you blow a giant hole in the story like that? They could've just reproduced like normal!! but now it's "Damn why doesnt sex work? Fontainians are sus!" "What do you mean you dont get pregnant from sex? You.. pray at a fountain? what?"

[@nothingspecial2018]

100%agree. In the end I want a story that is as good as attack on titan.

[@Male_Ficent]

Wait wha? What's with that last bit? I haven't finished the Fontaine aq but I' don't mind spoilers cause what's that?

[@zadalben9813]

I still remember how travelers were running away from the entire 3 guards in Sumeru Archon Quest

[@daksheeshsahu1196]

can't really justify the crimson moon i thought that was the traveller just stating what they saw but the the whole spike thing that really depends on the object you're trying to break like i could break a spike made of paper but one of pure steel wouldn't be something i can break and similarly it's probably just showing how strong arlecchino is. traveller's use of elements is a problem in general i think we only have like 4/5 cutscene where they're seen using them and that's something they should really work on. honestly gotta say i agree with the whole teppie thing like the community is general reacted so weirdly to him, although i guess he was basically a ally in who we fought alongside in battle so probably what made the traveller care about him. the pyro thing is really cuz it's not standard speaking of which the traveller doesn't only exist in cutscenes and they're probably used to using the power of any given element after getting to the statue so that not being the case would obviously be a big deal. also they are definitely getting progressively stronger as we go through the story best seen with us getting destroyed by signora(who was supressing her true powers btw) in the end of the prologue and then us defeating her at full power in the end of inazuma. also when exactly did the whole "sex doesn't work for fontainians" thing happen? anyways if i had to guess why this was ever said at all fontainians were basically oceanids in human skin before neuvillette made them true humans so standard human reproduction didn't work. the story definitely kinda just bad in certain spots tho especially the story quests which are hit or miss most of the time.

[@PoopiGirl.23]

I seriously hate how frequently Genshin bosses will say that you weren’t able to beat them RIGHT AFTER YOU BEAT THEM. Like, ok, literally what was the point then?

[@windrosea4628]

(HSR spoilers ahead) Even though Trailblazer has more character traits than Traveler, TB still suffers the same problem of inconsistency, which you can see in their interactions with characters like Sampo (barely any nice dialog options with him) and Ruan Mei (TB was never angry with her or called her out for everything she did to them personally and her creations and could do to the Space Station) or Sam (who is known to be a mass murderer, yet the writer added HEAVY hints on romance despite all the cold options presented to the player). If TB has any sort of bias, it was never explained and hence TB either looks like a hypocrite or just a selling tool, because you can't sell characters without TB befriending them, I guess, even if they actively commit crimes (with Kafka as the only exception)

[@brownlesbo]

@@windrosea4628 the sampo ruan mei shit pisses me off because why are we acting like he killed our family but ruan mei drugs us and we just act nice to her??

[@yoshsha9694]

​@@brownlesbo the only reason is ruan mei hot waifu but sampo not 😔

[@oraengae]

​@@yoshsha9694 but Sampo IS a hot waifu :(

[@Cynicalhamptur]

You are right about the inconsistency of Trailblazer. However, at least when compared to the traveller... they are at least by the definition, a blank slate. If you look at their lore, the trailblazer has no memories or prior personality. Kafka and Sliver Wolf created them with a stellaron and ditched them, so that the astral express can pick them up because they're implied to be an important piece in the future. If going by Elios's script. With Firefly, I suppose you can chalk that up to Elios's future sight making her kill people because important future sight stuff. However, I will agree with you that the Trailblazer should have at least held a grudge. All we get is TB asking why Firefly lied to them and their anger ends there.

[@charlottep315]

For Ruan Mei's part, didn't she drug them to forget about her eventually? Tho I feel Trailblazer has much less impact(like in Penacony and especially the who recently Hoolay story) compared to Traveller, who is forcefully pushed into stories for the sake of it.

[@theRaika]

Just like Hexenzirkel Mage N says to Traveller in the Fontaine Archon Quest, "Ultimately, fate shall serve as your only guide no matter what will happen in Tey at's future. All you need to do is to play your part." She also says the things to happen is the history of the future, meaning the cycle has already happen, maybe many times, the future is already fated but can be change by those acting hidden from the gaze of the gods. Why I bring this all up is, I believe Traveller is an already written character in this fated story. And until they realize they are just words on a paper they will not develop their own thoughts and actions, until then their actions are in the narrators hands. It's similar to the Simulancra quest in 4.8. Which makes what Zhongli said about us being "witnesses" make me believe he as also figured out the reality of Teyvat being something similar to that of a book. He has transcended from the shackles of his script but, like Nahida also said about waking a sleep walker, just telling us the truth would literally blow us up, or in other words, erase our ink from the story book. What's the point of this comment, IDK, I just started writing and didn't stop, dont think too much of it 😂

[@_aster_]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1957">32:37</a> ikr, it's so weird when traveler and paimon say that they've taken on gods and dragons when they're bragging in quests - and it's true, they have fought those beings - but they are completely neglecting to mention that if it were not for the help they received they would have stood no chance LOL. in every major fight against the final boss it's always outside help that massively carries the fight, and the traveler kind of just rides on the help they provide, like yae miko and the ambitions of the people and nahida and the time loop. the traveler is definitely stronger than most characters but they still have a long way to go in terms of strength, as their fight with arlecchino proves. also an aside, i think the significance of collecting each element is that they're a fraction of their original power, which is light related. there's a namecard that talks about how light defracts into the different colors of the rainbow, and that the elements may not be so different, or something along those lines. this would explain how gathering each element brings the traveler closer to their original powers. but the game could touch on that more so that the player realizes that, because really, who is going to look through all these different namecards? honestly, it's kind of the same about the traveler's lore in general. they are a traveler between planets, they probably have so many interesting experiences to talk about, and yet they just act like... some person, because the writers want to withhold lore so that we don't learn everything too fast.

[@isdrakon9802]

Do you think Ayaka or kokomi could've pulled off what we did with the same support, in Ei's voice line "about us legacy" she asks if we wish to spare again, mentioning how we came out unscathed last time. So we either have spared with her enough that we no longer get major damage, or the fight outside Tenshukaku we walked away from unharmed. I'd say the former is true considering it's ridiculous of us to be that strong and skilled to walk away after getting beat the first time. So evidently we can keep up with the most skilled martial fighter among the gods even if we are weaker. I'd also like to mention that in order to win the duel we needed to shake her will, which is something that allowed her to fight the shogun for 500 years, which in the real world was a matter of minutes. Then in sumeru we have scara we is also a god but likely a lot weaker than Ei, and I'd say we do pretty well against the hundred foot multi element mecha god. Then we get the canned knowledge, which previously gave us a permanent boost to our strength, so we can retcon it like a bad writer and say that the canned knowledge just gives us the knowledge of scaras attacks, which just leaves us with the existing power to heavily damage the mech with one attack. We could also say the canned knowledge gives the traveler more actual power along with the knowledge so we can comfortably combat gods, because again, do you think Dehya or Cyno could've beaten scara with the same assistance. Which leads us to the already shotily written Arlecchino whom is number 4 of the harbingers, and thus not at the power of a god. This is a fight where we see more of the fight in a cutscene than any other fight in the past and the traveler never uses an element, and they're already stronger than Arlecchino thought they were, and we were using an eighth of our strength

[@AdityaBharat-by7zq]

if you play the game and actually read the dialogues then you will know that traveller has fought more god like entities in game then just in archon quests, like he defeated thunderbird in tsurumi island and serai island, narzissenkruz in fontaine, gurdian of eternal oasis in jeht quest, gurdian of musoleum of king deshrat, monsters of khaverna (the ones who killed hydro archon) anf many more so they got the rights to brag, plus in most of boss fights traveller is the one carrying the fight , dvalin- only traveller can purify his curse, childe- well we beat him alone , signora- we also beat her, shogun- again self explainotary, he fought and beat her with his own powers and no yae miko didnt do squat in that fight, and ambitions of people could only be used by traveller so that isnt an argument either, saying that yae carried fight is like saying that she beat wanderer to save us, bruh she isnt even going to scratch ei in a fight much less carry fight against her she just reminded traveller that he can use ambitions of other people too people just exaggerate her role like she did the work , wanderer- again we were the ones doing the actual fighting, nahida herself literally admitted that she cant fight idk why people say that she carried hte fight, yes she was huge help but traveller was the only person in sumeru who could face balladeer in nface to face fight and beat him , same in apep boss. The only ones where we didnt play a big role was azdaha and narwhal, and even there it can be argued that the fight inside of whale was won thanks to traveller,..

[@_aster_]

y'all i'm not saying the traveler is a complete weakling or anything like that. they're obviously strong - i already said in my original comment that they're stronger than most characters. i just mean that when they talk about defeating top notch opponents like the raiden shogun i wish they would at least acknowledge the massive help they had in those fights because it feels like they're completely dismissing what people like yae miko and nahida contributed for them to win. notice i also said FINAL bosses, as in the bosses at the very end of the quest, like osial and scaramouche, not childe. i'm also aware that they've won a good amount of fights on their own but to compare winning solo against someone like signora to winning against literal gods is not accurate in my opinion.

[@isdrakon9802]

@@_aster_ please tell us specifically what help was given to us in the fights with Ei and Scara. We know about the experience in the loops so other than that, who did we receive help from and how did they do it specifically, like how did the vision bearers help us in the fight against Ei

[@domi8499]

​​@@isdrakon9802 by the power of the people of Inazuma bs that Yae gave us before entering Ei's domain. And for Scara's battle, Nahida literally pulled out the gamer move of reset when lose and try again, lol. We basically resetting until we succeed a no-hit challenge run

[@aavaron]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1357">22:37</a> that's why I love how they handled Abby in Wuthering Waves because he doesn't talk for Rover but WITH Rover and he appears mostly when no other character is around so mc doesn't have to talk to the walls. Trailblazer with the Astral express crew works well for the same reason.

[@ferntheworm4946]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="739">12:19</a> I would agree, if not for the characters of SUNNY and OMORI. Both are silent protagonists. both also have personalities, ones that I would argue are extremely complex. Love the video though!

[@Elyssa_00]

Omori and Sunny are silent protagonists because being quiet is actually their personality trait. Throughout the entire story, Omori and Sunny are mostly quiet and only talking when it's absolutely necessary. Also it's natural for people who are quiet like them to be silent. While the Traveler? They don't seem to be a quiet person. And I'm pretty sure at this point, they can't use "I can't speak Teyvat's language" as an excuse anymore. At this point, they should learn and understand Teyvat's language more than enough to actually use that language when they speak. Unless they actually never really learn Teyvat's language beyond what Paimon thought them.

[@ShootingStarStudio]

I’m kinda iffy about the Traveler being a self-insert character. I get the appeal, but I also think they need some established character traits. I’d blend both the way Hoyo was trying to do, but here’s how I’d do it: • For the Archon quests, give the traveler an established personality. Let them be the witnesses to what’s happening in each nation, but let us also see how the events of those chapters shape them. We need to somehow tie all of these events together by the end of the story, and I think that’s what the traveler’s arc is supposed to contribute to. • For the character quests, depending on their relevance to the overall story, let the traveler have more or less self-insert characteristics. The hangout quests and SQs that don’t do much to support the main storyline (ex. Ayato, Eula, Yelan) can be more along the self-insert lines, while the more lore-heavy quests (ex. Venti, Zhongli pt 2, Ei pt 2) can be more of the traveler we’d get in AQs. • World Quests (ex. Sacred Sakura, Aranara, the Order thingy in Fontaine) can be completely self-insert, as these quests only serve to develop that region rather than the main storyline. • For the love of God, USE ZACH AND SARAH!!!! (Aether and Lumine’s English VAs) THEY’RE TALENTED AS FUCK BUT YOU CAN ONLY HEAR IT IN THE STUPID BANTERS WITH PAIMON!

[@pinkfallingleaves]

YES!!!! i totally agree! instead of having the character all over the place.. this would be better by 1000x!

[@markiidii]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1008">16:48</a> Actually in Fontaine, I felt that the MC was so done with the Archons asking for help yet no valuable information on how to find his/her sibling, hence the change with the attitude. MC was like, ugghhh! Another useless Archon. hahaha! That's what I felt that time, not sure if anybody else did.

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

@@markiidii That's how I felt after watching the Inazuma arc. All that for nothing. I would have sceamed and shout Fock in frustration!

[@ProjSHiNKiROU]

The idea of Paimon is so bad the games that claim to copy Genshin (HSR, ToF, WuWa) won't copy that aspect of Paimon ( of speaking on behalf of Traveler)

[@hehuho890]

Mi-A is a useful companion on combat while Abby only sleeps :P

[@Ka_tari_na]

What made me lose interest in the GI MC is how Hoyo makes them a Mary Sue and Gary Stu like every problems in Teyvat can only be solve by them alone. Here comes MC to save the day plot everytime. I’m sorry to compare this to HSR but based of what my friends and family who play both games, HSR is interesting simply due to how the MC isn’t always in the spotlight, not always the main individual who save the day. And that to me is relatable hence enjoyable to play.

[@imperialsarcasm]

It doesn't feel like they have a driving motivation to be engaged with the world when they are just exploring because the abyss sibling said they should explore. It would be better if they actively got invested in the world before and then they could meet up with the sibling and decide THEMSELVES that they want to continue to see the world and find out why the sibling wants to fight against fate. It feels like they are more reactive than proactive, they don't really have a drive to do things and just go wherever and happen upon random situations which makes them feel very weakly connected to the main story. Half the time it feels like they are just not necessary and if they didn't exist the events would likely work out the same somehow.

[@DNG12900]

I never really understood the whole "witness" thing. Like sure, as an outlander they are immune to Irminsul retcons and as such they will witness historical events that others don't know about but they are also the participant in those events. They help people, do things that others don't and are involved in ways that make it hard to say that they are just a witness. If they were just a witness they wouldn't be fighting Dvalin, Raiden Shogun, Azhdaha or the Fatui or freeing Nahida or even helping save Fontaine or even earning any of their titles. They would just ignore everything and go search for their sibling. It just feels like Hoyo had different plans for them but then just decided to change them during Suneru and Fontaine Archon Quests.

[@youneversawme.5151]

The whole point of our journey in the beginning was to find our sibling but when we do find them they dont wanna talk to us and actively avoid us for the rest of the journey so my question is why continue the journey if we've already found our sibling but they just don't wanna talk to us?? Also the traveler is often such a hypocrite because how do you act like its the end of the world if someone is with the fatui when YOUR OWN SIBLING is the LEADER of the abyss order?? Like make it make sense

[@Auron447]

I really wish the traveler was voiced more ,I'm sick of Paimon and how she regurgitates anything said by the traveler or others, even in none voiced dialogs.

[@nickb2478]

The amount of character development that would have been lost if the traveler was the center of the Fontaine quest would be insane. Neuvillette meeting Focalors and learning Furina was really just a cursed human was so powerful because we got to see neuvillettes emotional reaction to it whereas the traveler would probably have a dialogue choice that would be forgettable. Also neuvillette forgiving the sins of the fontainians was amazing he was clearly choked up and very emotional seeing the normally stoic neuvillette so emotional made me go from liking him to loving him.

[@rek8193]

My number on problem with Genshin is that it pretends to be an RPG. If this was an RPG I would've sold Paimon at the general store and I'd intimidate my way out of 90% of the plot contrivances.

[@ThomasAndy-qu8dp]

One of the big reason i left genshin is the traveler. I love the initial premise: wtf happened ? Where is my sister/brother ? Instead youre judt being dragged into everyone shir and do every chore for them. Why????

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

@@ThomasAndy-qu8dp They need to lock in. No more detours. No more getting dragged to others problems. Prioritize why they journeyed the 7 nations in the first place.

[@Sphyell]

like why the heck do they have dialogue options that are actually one statement chopped in half

[@toxin2366]

This is kinda all the options, aside from hangouts. Or they're the same thing just worded differently

[@Ligmyster]

The problem with the Traveler is he's a MAIN character not a main CHARACTER which is just a fancy way of saying bad writing. IMO the story is good but the story telling is dogshit.

[@EggiRoll]

Yeah, like the actually story elements and ideas are good, but the execution is so bad in Genshin. They really need to improve their dialogue writing.

[@HellMonarch000]

If genshin had a button to get rid of paimon and make traveller an entire character i'd push it so hard every day

[@CrimsonMage-flare]

lemme join you !!

[@backupschmliff1156]

I played Genshin Impact day one it came out on PS4 in 2020. I fell off it like a week later without paying anything and forgot about it until it got massive. Hell, I remember when it was called anime Breath of the Wild.

[@pandoraarts7748]

I hated the sumeru quests, I was practically screaming to be let out of that quest. it took forever, I almost quit the game. I almost cried.

[@sammoore1704]

The thing is, Hoyo can make an interesting, well developed main character, they already did it in Honkai Impact 3rd

[@hxppythxughts7149]

True Ttey are able to, and there are already a few of them... like Kiana, Kyuushou, Karin,

[@robertov435]

FINALLY SOMEONE MENTION HER

[@ayonixanimations]

A lot of points brought up I have actively complained about before. I *hate* how the Traveler seems to have their own options but for some reason MHY won't let their fucking voice actors SPEAK their lines, especially the bullshit choices that are just their fucking thoughts that should have been said in their voice. If they actually spoke in the questlines where every one else speaks it wouldn't feel so jarring or annoying when my two "options" are things I don't want to "say". Like the thing with Lyney, after the trial is over and you get to talk to the twins, Paimon and the Traveler are _so_ hostile, when I just did not feel it, and did not understand it at all. We are so fucking chummy with Childe who is a HARBINGER who has tried to destroy a nation and drown the fucking city, but god forbid Lyney didn't want us to know they were Fatui. I hate how different the Traveler acts on a whim. They pretend to be a self-insert, but are actually their own character without the ability to speak for themselves because MHY is either lazy, stupid, or shit at writing. There is absolutely no reason half of the options that are just a sentence split into two can't just be said out loud or as a thought by the god damn VA, fuck. I would rather the VAs voice the Traveler and the Traveler become a selectively mute character, the perfect excuse is just what Bedtime Stories showed, the Traveler isn't getting close to others on purpose, they feel like they don't belong, they don't feel the need to insert themselves into every conversation or they're just not very talkative. Which is supported by the whole nickname thing and "You're the only one in this world who calls me that", well you didn't tell anyone your real name on purpose ya dingus.

[@ckoejake9966]

I feel like Trailblazer is a significantly better written character than the traveler. Trailblazer throughout version 1 is mostly just fine, nothing to great but at least we don't have Paimon talking for us was a relief. But once we got to version 2 i felt like Trailblazer started to become more of their own character as events such as *that* scene ( you should know what i am referring to) left Trailblazer with an emotional scar. They way that they can either be left in utter disbelief over what occured or get angry at one of their companions and the dialog actually works feels so satisfying. Like here is something that traveler fails at, actual dialog choices that can impact the character interactions. And all the stickers you get in penacony function like the Traveler's voice lines (the ones that you have to go to the character menu to look at). Those stickers feels like the Trailblazer is writing down little diary notes. So now to one of my complaints about Trailblazer, i want to see more of them speaking and they should go through a bit more of a character arc as right now they feel more like a flat character rather than a round one So summary Trailblazer is better because they can act independently versus traveler who is more often than not dragged into something, Paimon talks for them, and the dialog options for traveler are actual garbage. Here is a recent example Option 1: What... Option 2:What?

[@Accountthatexists]

I think the good thing about trailblazer is that even in moments whete there writing sucks OR the plot is unitresting......the trailblazer at least gives some fun to be had And it's just good that the trailblazer ISNT required to be apart of the plot OR need them to know every char, and the story dosent have EVERY CHAR pander to them unlike the traveler who is forced Is stories they don't need to be, and have all these chars fawning over them even if there personality is....non existsnt

[@windrosea4628]

A close bond with a character they met a few hours ago that appeared out of nowhere plus completely ignoring that character's terrorist status do not add to TB's personality at all. Dreamscape pass + recent TB's voiced lines are nice improvements though

[@eggnog4266]

The thing that makes trailblazer so much better for me is that everyone doesn't glaze them 24/7 like they do for the traveler, and even when they do get glazed, instead of pulling off the annoying "Oh no, I'm not so great" humbleness, it absolutely fuels their ego and they eat it up completely. It just gives them so much character, while at the same time not letting the other characters just be there to glaze them the whole time.

[@eggnog4266]

​@@Accountthatexistsliterally this

[@enyalim1535]

I like Trailblazer a lot more bc of that side quest where u manage Penacony hotel bc they became a shareholder, that was pure chaotic-trailblazer fanservice.

[@ChalkMuncher]

The part i just really dont like about the lyney, lynette thing is that the traveler just majorly freaked out over them merely being aligned with the fatui, whereas they were all “buddy-buddy” with number eleven (Childe) mere days before the trail. the double standards are insane…

[@kylegreen6711]

It’s almost like the Traveler has a clear characterized reason for that, which is one lied to them and betrayed them and the other didn’t. Amazing how characters work!

[@imperialsarcasm]

@@kylegreen6711 childe literally tried to have the nation they were in at the time drowned by a god before their literal eyes

[@plvto1]

​​@@kylegreen6711 childe literally lied and betrayed traveller what are you talking about

[@aeso3555]

​@@plvto1And he summoned a sea god to drown an entire nation.

[@ironshinobi9384]

traveler is more enemy with childe than friend they have never like the fauti going way back to liyue traveler even still have a little distrust with hat guy in they dialog options what he show up . They will work them but never fully trusting them. it like keeping your enemies closer so you know what they up to even paimon know to never trust them fully

[@jualyal2622]

As a RPG Lover, one reason I dislike about Genshin is the traveler is not the protagonist, just a witness and his inconsistentcy of his power level as well. The Archon Quest is not the main story, it's just a side quest. The Khaenri'ah Quest is the main story for the Traveler, which only happens once or twice a year.

[@Maethendias]

its especially obvious when you look at the newer hoyo games and the way they have done protagonists THERE and thats just personality wise, the whole "alien" thing is so rarely touched upon its kind of irrelevant at this point or the whole "gnosis" parts about "traveling teyvat to discover the truth" doesnt make any sense either, why does the traveler CARE like for someone thats supposed to be a "witness" they are way too thick into the deep of things as an ACTIVE participant

[@alexanderericson8628]

This is because Teyvat is a storybook written with the lifeforce of the sibling. The traveller is reflecting on what is happening you can see that in Sumeru when he/she sits down to contemplate what everything means. What that means is that the traveller is keeping her thoughts to her self and probably has a lot of opinions on what the Fatui actually are. If Teyvat is written like a fairy tale "killing" a dragon in said fairy tale might not be as "evil" as keeping humanity trapped within the pages. Yes to the archons the Fatui are a nuisance but the Archons were put in Teyvat to uphold the established order, to keep everyone worshipping the gods now Heavenly Principles is asleep and there is an opportunity to rebel that's what the Fatui are represented as. The more the traveller learn the more they come to realise that the Fatui path might be the correct one. In Simulanka you come across a guy that finds out that he is in a fairy tale this is very telling since Simulanka is supposed to be a mirrored reality explained by Mona. Since each summer region reflects the next region means he is supposed to be Mauvika. The frog is Kachina and the squirrel is Mualani. Keep in mind that the traveller probably is angry with the situation they found the sibling and imagined that would lead to them reunite. The travellers patience is not endless they show clear signs of being fed up with being in Teyvat and that is important. The author and the audience this is something Kaeya talks about and it comes again in Pierros monologue "Right now you have no captivated audience but Rosalyne I promise you, your legacy will be the entirety of the old world" Here he also mentions Teyvat as a stage and this comes again with Arlecchino in the beginning of the Fontaine archon quest. Arlecchino is an interesting character because she glitches and has ink on her hands almost like she was not supposed to exist. Pierro plays Chess in the Lazzo trailer, and the Gnosis is formed like a chess piece almost like he chose the form of what the gnosis should take within the dream to outwit the Heavenly Princples

[@dollzo]

Dosent work well though

[@kiyomi_kamimoto]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="687">11:27</a> This one comes from a wildly misunderstood voiceline about Paimon teaching the Traveler Teyvat's language, because in fact, she says that they actually learned it really well and in very little time. - Paimon : "You learn new things so quickly. You've already got such a good grasp of Teyvat's language." - Traveler : "You're a good teacher, Paimon." And that was in Mondstadt. So they definitely know how to speak the language now, at least at a good enough degree to maintain a conversation. ~ <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="780">13:00</a> (I think it was around here ?) About Lyney's case, I was part of those who got annoyed with the Traveler's response. But I think I and many people overlooked the fact that the Traveler had just witnessed how Dottore essentially betrayed Scaramouche in a very similar way as Lyney and Lynette "did". Though the twins had no such bad intention, it probably felt too familiar. I am glad they willingly continued to defend them, and later on warmed up toward them. I have an issue with the Traveler's consistency as a character though. One time they'll be incredibly nice and empathetic (towards Navia, for example, where they shush Paimon down when she almost brings up the subject of her parents), and another they get very insensitive towards a character they had shown some kind of sympathy before (Wanderer, their behavior changes quite drastically from their discussion in Pardis, where they discuss with him and actually offers to help him, with Scara almost feeling like they were a friend, and in the beginning of the Interlude quest where they literally tell him "so they tossed you out like trash", knowing very well how he feels about being abandoned) At least, even if it is not very consistent for the Traveler towards Wanderer, it is kind of logical. It makes sense, Wanderer is no saint, so it can get a pass. But Furina is also such a case, even worse, because in her case she didn't deserve it at all. Her boundaries get completely overstepped, she gets thrown back into the biggest trauma of her life by force, gets taunted and manipulated only to be useful to the Traveler and their friends. (Still can't get over that film event back in december where the Traveler is ok with just praising Furina and giving her a gift just to lure her into helping them do a job, not because they care for her or think she's got the talent for it, but just because Chiori says it would work. They thought nothing of what they told her and I just found this repulsive.) All she ever did to them was challenge them in a trial, where she got immediately scared, before they got saved by Lyney, and finally where the Traveler willingly agrees to be her opponent by defending the twins. And she loses. And that was all because of the pressure to play her role. I do not see how she deserved to be so badly treated, especially with how the Traveler looked so pained and sad when seeing her performance in her inner world. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1208">20:08</a> As someone who perhaps played a little more Star Rail than you (still behind in the story though...), I can confirm that the Trailblazer can give you actual choices that will change the course of the story sometimes, unlike the Traveler. There are quests, like Kafka's, where the Trailblazer can simply refuse to help her. Therefore, the quest ends here, and you can never play it again. You can also refuse to go on the Express at the beginning of the game. It leads you to a secret ending. Stelle/Caelus are very different from Aether/Lumine in that regard. ~ <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1645">27:25</a> (around here) I'm not sure whether I like it or not. But after accumulating this theory in my head for four years, and after Ashikai finally put it into words, I feel like I may have an 'explanation' as to why the Traveler is the way they are. They're the reader of the story. They don't belong, in this world, they're just the witness. They're not supposed to be there or impact the story in any way. Making them silent and like a self-insert at the beginning where they don't do much kind of makes sense. But they're slowly influencing the world and fate around them more and more. They're slowly taking part in the story, and becoming a character of their own. Maybe that would be why we can now access to the Traveler's process of thinking in Sumeru, why they talk more and more during the main and character quests in Fontaine. Why they will now have a clear role in Natlan's success against the Abyss. But, that's just an interpretation... of course, waifu/husbando matter as well, it's a gacha game.

[@maiafay]

If the traveler hadn’t pushed Furina to grow up and deal with her issues, we wouldn’t have her as a playable character. She would wallow in her apartment and get fat on macaroni. She wanted to get involved and she followed them. No one forced her. I’m am so tired of people treating characters like they are real. And frankly, being coddled doesn’t do anything but ensure the one coddled never grows. To grow, you have to have personal struggle. That’s the entire point.

[@kiyomi_kamimoto]

@@maiafay "They're fictional", then what ? I can dislike the way they're written. I can dislike the way they act and behave, and how inconsistent they are as a character.

[@multifandommari]

I'm so glad someone made a video about this so I know I'm not alone in thinking this. This is the whole reason I uninstalled Genshin and now play HSR instead. 90% of Genshin quests are just walls of Paimon dialogue that I can't skip, and because she needs to make everything simple, it feels like the game is treating me like I'm dumb. The weird limbo between the Traveler being a self-insert or OC makes them annoyingly inconsistent, while the separation of the Archon quests and the Traveler's sibling makes it feel like 2 strangely disconnected stories. In the beginning, it acts like your goal is to find your twin, but you spend the majority of the story getting dragged around in Archon quests that an OC Traveler has no clear reason to care about, and a self-insert Traveler doesn't either because all choice is an illusion and I as a self-insert wanted to find my sibling way more than I wanted to help another foolish Archon solve their problems. Genshin had the potential to tell an incredible story. The premise is there but the execution is horrendous.

[@thatminer7174]

A small point i was thinking about with traveller and paimpn compared to trailblazer is running jokes. Basically every time theres an emergency food joke the punchline doesnt change, the reaction is the same, paimon gets mad and says she isnt, in hsr the running gag would be trash cans and gallactic baseballer, the punchline with the second one again being the reactions, however these Change every time even with the same characters, one time march says "again" other time she hypes you up stc, it has a punchline that actually changes

[@kachantacemenov3181]

The day Traveller says "Stfu" to Paimon I'll drop my whole wallet at Genshin and tell everyone game G is the peak of gaming.

[@MiyuMaple]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="2493">41:33</a> You didn't waste my time! I learnt a lot and am able to understand my problem with the traveler

[@lunaredelvour2972]

Traveler has the same issue that I had with the protagonist(s) of AC Odyssey. Game devs couldn't decide if they wanted a blank slate or if they wanted a self-insert, so they took a weird middle ground approach. Both options are perfectly valid and I think either could work for genshin. Personally, I would prefer seeing a pre-existing character in the same way you have Geralt in Witcher 3, rather than a blank slate in the same way you have your character in Skyrim. This is because characters are such a vital part of Genshin - how many characters have we pulled for because we liked the character and not just because of meta or playstyle reasons? (I hate charged shots but I still love Tighnari enough to regularly bring him into Spiral Abyss, I'm not a fan of plunge attacks but Xiao and Gaming stole my heart so I've engaged with it, and we ALL know how un-meta Kaveh is but I still begged for a rerun and pulled and I still use him (c3) because dammit I love him). So having a well-rounded and developed traveler would make it easier to write memorable interactions between characters, and also makes it easier for dialogue to develop *both* characters instead of just one, not to mention that it also helps endear you to mc and forgive the fact their kits are.... um, not usually great. I think a blank slate could arguably work, too, because that gives you a vessel with which to interact with the characters how you as a player want to, rather than feeling like you can't do as you please because mc has set dialogue choices that aren't 'be nice/be mean' or something, but that could require some hefty reworking since that means you're now dealing with multiple variations of one conversation and they probably don't want to have their VAs voicing a million extra lines (which, on that note. can we please get rid of dialogue options that don't do anything? because that's one of the things that drives me up the wall bat-crap insane with this game. STOP GIVING ME DIALOGUE OPTIONS THAT DONT CHANGE ANYTHING IT MAKES MC FEEL SO MUCH MORE INSIGNIFICANT AND BLAND-)

[@ninetails961]

I think you kinda missed a bit when it comes to your analysis about Inazuma (I’m <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="198">3:18</a> into the video) The traveler had just had the revelation about their twin siding with the abyss and Inazuma was massive character development for the traveler themselves. It was the first story where other characters seemed actively involved in moving the plot even if the focus wasn’t on them. The traveler first declines ayakas request because they want to focus only on finding their twin but then they realize they can’t just leave things as they are in Inazuma with a clear conscious. The traveler becoming a captain was to 1 show the passage of time and also get us attached to the members of the resistance that would ultimately culminate in Teppeis death which affected the traveler in a massive way. After teppeis death the traveler stops hesitating when it comes to helping people.

[@ruas4721]

Yes, exactly that. I hate it when people talk sh** about the story in Inazuma. The story progresses a little bit to fast, thats fair critique, but overall its absolutly understandable and believable and also very important for character development.

[@ConquestGoddess]

Sumerus writing is still my favorite, the pacing and the way our role made sense puts it above the others - my only issue with Fontaine was the aftermath and the fact that we learn nothing about our “main objective” of information about our sibling and we basically discard Furina after manipulating her

[@allentayoto7387]

You guys remember how important the Traveler's character was throughout Mondstadt to Sumeru? Yeah, the problem with Fontaine and Natlan is how underused the Traveler had become. I know, people use the fact that they're supposed to be the "witness" for Teyvat, but it's practically just an excuse at this point. And it doesn't help that paimon is stealing all of the Traveler's voicelines. Making the Traveler feel off-putting, just standing there while everyone's talking.

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

Like he's just there standing and doing nothing of importance or just being a ragdoll for new characters to showoff.

[@not_abot213]

I think it’s the “witness” part is why I’m not enjoying Genshin as much as I used to. Because technically, as a recent player, the traveler isn’t a witness to all of Teyvat. My traveler didn’t meet with Scaramouche prior to Inazuma, has never come into contact with the Albedo clones, and knows nothing for a good chunk of the 4-star characters (Mika, Yaoyao, Chevreuse, etc). It feels incomplete and unfulfilling.

[@Elyssa_00]

Thank you for describing all my frustrations about the Traveler's character. Their character has been bugging me for a long time 😭 Also, as someone who play a lot of Honkai: Star Rail until the recent patch (2.4), and finish (I think) all the quests, I also have a lot of problems with the Trailblazer's character. In my opinions, they too suffer from the some of the problems that mentioned in the video like the Traveler.

[@salemlandmine]

If you don't mind me asking what problems do you have with Trailblazer specifically? Since from what I've seen most people in the fandom seem to generally like them more than the Traveller so I'm just genuinely kinda curious (I'm more on the neutral side but probably because I see them as even more of a blank state than the Traveller considering we get more choices that rapidly change TB's personality through the dialogue options overall compared to Genshin.)

[@Elyssa_00]

​@@salemlandmine Hmmm....I haven't make a proper list of all the problems that I have with the Trailblazer's character, so I will explain at least one problem that I have that's the most fresh in my mind. One of my problems is how the narration and the other characters describe the Trailblazer's character vs the choices that the game provide to the player. I don't know if it's just me overthinking stuff or it's actually a thing, but I tend to notice the difference between how the narration and the other characters describe the Trailblazer's character, and the choices that the game provide to the player. For example, if I remember correctly, several characters (playable and NPCs) described the Trailblazer as a quiet person. But the game still gives the player options to talk a lot and ask a lot of questions to the other characters (playable or NPCs). And even if the player choose to interact with and talk a lot to other characters, the characters still think of the Trailblazer as a quiet person? How does that make sense? Whenever I play the game, I always interact with every single characters (playable and NPCs) that's available, and talk A LOT to them. But for some reason, the characters never change their opinion about "The Trailblazer is a quiet person", despite I talk a lot to them? Why? I feel like Hoyoverse already know what kind of character the Trailblazer is and try to tell that to us through the narration and the other characters, but also still give us choice to take different actions that, unfortunately, clash with how the narration and the other characters describe the Trailblazer's character. For example, throughout the entire game, I always choose the most tame, kind, and normal options. No acting or talking weird (unless the game give me no option other than that), no too much joking. But for some reason, the narration and the other characters describe the Trailblazer as someone that doesn't match my choices all this time. It's like Hoyoverse give the player "illusion of choices". In my account, Caelus (the Trailblazer that I chose), described as a quiet person, despite I always talk to every single characters available a lot. He also described as weird or eccentric, despite I always choose the most tame options. All of this makes the Trailblazer's personality feels inconsistent and confusing. What kind of person are they actually? Which one is their actual personality? Hell if I know. If the Trailblazer already have established personality, then why do the game even give the player different choices that might or might not clash with the Trailblazer's actual personality? Why don't they just give us choices that actually match the Trailblazer's personality, like the main characters from Zenless Zone Zero?

[@Accountthatexists]

I disagree with the trailblazer, I feel like the experience of the game would be much worse if u changed there characterization........ Cause even when the story is bad (all the loufo and some of penacony quest) the trailblazer is there to at least provide an entertaining experience

[@Elyssa_00]

@@Accountthatexists If the change is necessary, fit with the story, and Hoyoverse can implement it in a natural way, then I think change their characterization is a good choice. Also, just because it's entertaining, that doesn't mean it's good writing. I prefer both good writing AND entertaining experiences in any game that I play, not just only one.

[@Accountthatexists]

@@Elyssa_00 ya that's just a bad take..........

[@Team_ghost9503]

Feels like they should’ve just made the Traveler an actual character instead of an insert. Shit just doesn’t work in these types of games

[@biggie395]

literally if they can’t do a silent protagonist right then they really should’ve just made the traveler their own character.

[@Lucky_Dagger]

God playing HSR and ZZZ is so refreshing because the Trailblazer actually has a personality (trash gremlin troll) and Belle and Wise actually have a relationship. Meanwhile Traveler sees a dude in Inazuma who could barely hold all his death flags and the writing does nothing to convey any bond with Teppei. Sumeru did a way better job of making the potential death of an NPC we met have more weight because she isn't only connected to the traveler but Nahida, Dehya and Nilou. I actually don't like the dain interludes, mostly because a lot of the info you get, no matter how urgent it feels, gets ignored. We gonna have like half a year after learning the abyss order can possibly rewrite history with the loom of fate or there is a statue that still needs destroying that can be made into an artificial god, also the mcguffin object they get could have just been destroyed but dain doesn't even try or establish any difficulties preventing destroying the eye. Now, world quests. The tanit tribe quest sucked so bad with how traveler lets a bottled racist shit talk a character they are estalished to have a friendship with, and the ending where we let said friend commit genocide when the root problem was babel (like the traitors of tribe sucked so much but they had a point about babel being terrible for the tribe). The guy raising crocodiles is stuttering so much that i felt like he was constantly afraid of babel, and his motive was primarily "i don't wanna die so i will follow the instructions i was given even if they are wrong". Tahlia also showed a lot of conflicting feelings but ultimately she wanted to survive.

[@aidanlyons25]

I think Genshin should do what ZZZ did and have A TON of character quest styled in the way of the special episode quest of ZZZ with Jane Doe. Like let the quests be centered around the other playable characters while showing off the mc less. In my opinion that was a smart move from Zenless that I'd love Genshin to do

[@javelinmaster2]

One thing that I noticed in Natlan is that the writers kinda went out of their way to point out what the Traveler can do like when they demonstrate their abilities in front of Kachina and then the whole cleansing the abyssal corruption. which is understandable since the writers seem to have forgotten about that in both Sumeru and Fontaine. And Natlan also seems to continue the trend of important witness like in Sumeru and Fontaine since the pilgrimage was done through Kachina's eyes and all. heck Natlan might even have more moments where we have to play as another character. I just wish the Traveler showed more of their personality and just have more spoken lines and actual dialogue choices....

[@elementplasma9698]

I disagree on the fontaine part because the traveler is underutilized at least on act some scenes of act 5 like on the whale appearing on the court room, the main powerhouse in the scene are tartaglia, neuvillette and the traveler yet tartaglia and neuvillette were the only ones to fight the whale, what was the traveler doing at that moment? Why didn't they help fend off the whale? They went toe to toe with gnosis powered scara and even defeated him with their own strength and power, the only boost they got is the memories of the loops nahida put scara into so they should be able to help right? No, they appeared at the end of the cutscene and just watched. I get that they want to push the narrative that the traveler is a witness but its baffling that they have to put the traveler out of the spotlight just for neuvillette and tartaglia to shine while forgetting just how strong the traveler become. I do agree that while they are the protagonist, they don't have to be the main character but underutilizing the traveler's abilities(lack of elements being used ever since sumeru) for the sake of plot moving forward is like (Spoilers from jujutsu kaisen) Satoru Gojo being sealed in the prison realm because he is the one that hinders the plot from moving forward, that's essentially what they're doing with the traveler without the prison realm, the traveler's abilities being forgotten for the sake of plot to move forward is a way for the writers to raise the stakes but it kind of falls flat when you remember what the traveler can do in that situation but for some reason, they don't and it feels half baked unless you don't care for the traveler at all. One of the greatest example of this is the arlecchino cutscene, lyney, lynette and freminet are down for the count, there's no one protecting the other children of the hearth except for the traveler, you would expect the traveler to at least use the elements to defend the defenseless children of the hearth right? No, make them struggle without using any other elements, make arlecchino expand her domain expansion or whatever its called and make the traveler fear her, the idea that the traveler being humbled is great because it shows that they still have a long way to go but the executions really sucks when you consider what the traveler can do and in the end, its just glazing arlecchino's overwhelming victory and not even breaking a sweat. Sorry for the long rant but TLDR:I'm fine with the traveler not being the main character to let the character of their respective nation to shine but sacrificing traveler's consistency to move the plot forward leaves an expression that the traveler is weak without any help and shows that the traveler is still the same as the start of the game without any sort of growth from a powerscaling standpoint.

[@JustaGhostDragoon]

to be fair we lost 168 times to the gnosis powered scara if it wasen't for the dendro archon we'd be dead in round 1 :D

[@elementplasma9698]

@@JustaGhostDragoon Its a simulation inside scaramouche's head that nahida made him fight the traveler 168 times. After the loop is completed, nahida had given the memories of the loops to the traveler, thereby giving the traveler advantage to know when and how scaramouche's attacks, that's all there is to it, the traveler still beat him with their own strength.

[@fingerb0nes]

Yes omg it makes me so disappointed when hoyo doesn't let the traveler use the power they gave them. Like what's the point in giving the traveler all the elements if you're not going to allow them to use them in serious situations? It's wasted potential, the traveler could be so cool if hoyo just let them be.

[@ping-x7m]

This is why i would probably not gonna do her story quest. After seeing the cutscene in youtube, i knew they trying hard to sell arlecchino by making her so overly crazily powerful and the traveler so fking utterly useless that cant even use his/her elemental power??? Are u kidding me hyv?!

[@foxinthedark]

i feel like it is getting kind of difficult to associate with the traveler because the player has a lot of knowledge that the traveler doesn’t because of cutscenes we witness like the second caribert quest where we saw them reunite briefly

[@Jemima-greenbean]

In my personal opinion I wish they would let the traveler talk in the Archon quests, it could add so much more development to the main plot; I could care less whether they talk in side quests.

[@amazingcas]

i loved the beginning of the game where the traveler actually spoke. i miss that they just abandoned that.

[@louloudaki_]

i like that the traveler is silent most of the time because it puts more emphasis on impactful moments but i do with they utilized the spoken dialogue thing more. like when the twins are interacting both should be speaking out loud and i do think traveler being silent would hit better if paimon was fully a separate character like if she had only her own dialogue and wasn’t just repeating what other people said or talking over the traveler. they could make it really compelling if they made the two characters separate, fleshed out characters. would also sell them being companions way more they definitely need to make traveler speak out loud more often. like when it’s one on one emotional conversations it should be audible dialogue where you’re not picking things just clicking through it if that makes sense. would sell the traveler as their own character which would be really interesting. i like traveler’s character and want them to actually flesh it out cause there is potential

[@truefox1259]

There's 3 types of main character writing I believe. People who are their own Characters and have their own Agency.) I.E Kianna from HI3rd. Blank Self Inserts for the player to Project themselves onto. And the last one and possibly my favorite one. Characters who have their own backstories and are a set part of the world that you control the actions and dialogue of. I like to call these "Commander Shepard" characters, based on the character of the same name from Mass Effect. Another notable character that falls into this category could be Geralt of Rivia, or I believe even Stelle/Caelus from HSR falls into this category. the Traveler to me feels weird cause it feels like they wanted it to BOTH be a blank character self-insert character AND the "Commander Shepard" type character, and it kinda flip-flops between the 2 depending on what the writing team is feeling that day. (Or whatever the genshin fanbase wants to use to defend the poor character writing, by saying either that the Traveler is "Their own character with their own wants, needs, and flaws" or that they're "A blank self-insert so it's okay that the traveler is poorly written and has no agency."

[@usubenidango]

About lyney and lynette, what makes them interesting to me is not the “they’re just doing their job” because if that’s the case, childe almost drowning liyue could also have been excused as “just a job” 🤷🏻 that sounds like a manipulation tactic. What truly makes them interesting to me is that they never had much of a choice to begin with. They didn’t choose to join the fatui, they were abandoned and the person who saved them (arlecchino) just HAPPENED TO BE from the fatui. It makes them nuanced and interesting to me.

[@KadaEklund]

Since i started playing it was obvious the traveller needed an insane power up, and since 2020 i've been saying Liyue AQ Childe and Signora are fodder, because their feats didnt even compare to Archons small feats, but now everyone is surprised the traveller was not able to beat someone with true power? Also i always loved the argument "he will regain his power and defeat the Unknown God" even if along the sibling both got negative diff, i mean the unknown god was not even paying attention during some parts of the fight. Genshin power scaling is vague, and leaves room for imagination, and that becomes bad because people will have expecatitons higher than reality.

[@jojramsay]

Most of travelers personality, opinions and thoughts (on people and story) are hidden in the CHARACTER MENU VOICE LINES!! I wish they had some sort of thing where Paimon and Traveler have a heart to heart about what happened up until now, so we can get a base foundation of what the travelers goals are anymore, what their opinions are and how they plan on going forward instead of winging it freestyle.

[@TheABCD3912]

Traveler is the side character and all the side characters are the main character

[@parasite_paddy]

I like how in Natlan the traveler is only a visitor, a spectator, at first at least, and Natlan characters play the role they deserve. The traveler is only called into action when they are actually needed, when their experience as adventurer and fighter and their special ability of removing/being immune to abysmal energy is actually a keypoint that could change and does change the outcome of the events (in the night kingdom) in a significant way. And I mean, the scenes with Mavuika alone?? Splendid

[@Elyssa_00]

Me too. But I also see it as like the Traveler has no real purpose of being in Natlan. Like why are they even there? Why is the Traveler still traveling from regions to regions at this point? They barely get the reward that they want and need throughout the entire game : information about their sibling. Why don't they try to use other methods to find any useful information about their sibling instead of keep doing the same thing (traveling from regions to regions to go talk to its respective archons) that's not even that rewarding?

[@1braker]

That line about walls of text in video games was so good to hear someone else say. Video games are audio-visual mediums. The visuals should take priority as your means of storytelling, especially if it's a game using 3d models.

[@Mustache99]

Also traveller choice doesn't matter in genshin there a sense of glorified choice, all lead to the same conclusion so there is no immersion, look at zzz or starail your choice do matter and you feel invested I hope in the future the choice you make will impact more in the story, like choosing a faction

[@lilypotter8587]

one thing that will immediately turn me off from a games is when my choices don't matter, like i understand having moments where two choices will lead to the same outcome but don't make it your entire game, when i first got into genshin and i saw the choices i thought i would be allowed to make choices put my own impact on the world and story now i just skip the story and play the card game. also genshin needs to fix their tell not show problem the dialogue is ungodly long and boring, and i have adhd if you don't make it entertaining your gonna lose me, i cant handle when the character just stand there and spoonfeed you what's happening

[@Elyssa_00]

Regarding of the choices in Genshin, I hope that they can do what Toby Fox did with Undertale. And I agree, Genshin has such a huge "tell, don't show" problem. I still hope they fix this problem before we move to the next region, even though my expectation is not that high.

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

@@Elyssa_00 They keep on walking on eggshells rather than being bold and ballsy

[@christianvirtudazo3106]

@@lilypotter8587 Even when Paimon repeats what they said is annoying

[@mazli1001]

I like the silent Traveller. We have to remember that Genshin's story is still far from it's end. We'll probably find out why we have Paimon (i know, we saved her from drowning, but it's probably not just a coincidence), and why the Traveller doesn't talk about their past from different worlds. I really hope that we will get a quest that's just about sharing their stories from outside of Teyvat.