Our Crime? (1965)

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British Pathé

British Pathé

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 220
@missmerrily4830
@missmerrily4830 9 ай бұрын
I say, what some rotters! The funniest thing of all is the thought that the police would have a notebook full of cases of bent meter readers. Now it's the actual energy companies that do the robbing!
@curtislowe4577
@curtislowe4577 2 ай бұрын
@@missmerrily4830 Have you actually worked in the production or distribution of electricity or in engineering or accounting and thus been acutely familiar with budgeting and financial issues? The investment that "the grid" represents is staggering. The only true waste I saw during my decade in the industry over three decades ago was the top heaviness every organization accumulates (government included).
@andydixon2980
@andydixon2980 Жыл бұрын
Back when criminals were nice wholesome chaps with a splendid moustache.
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
And a nice suit with collar and tie - non of your sloppy fleeces or cheap track suits and trainers!
@SteveHudson-o9q
@SteveHudson-o9q 9 ай бұрын
A different type of boundah these days, what.@@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@denisvermeirre1024
@denisvermeirre1024 9 ай бұрын
Could this be Richard Vernon?
@johndean4765
@johndean4765 8 ай бұрын
Back in the day when the relative small numbers of immigrants had back ground checks and wanted to work.
@UniqueSundials
@UniqueSundials 7 ай бұрын
No cheery looking chaps from the Congo then welding machetes
@seanmacleod1724
@seanmacleod1724 9 ай бұрын
The year I was born 😊 It's certainly changed in almost 60 years.
@cas4554
@cas4554 5 ай бұрын
I was 13 happy days 😂😂😂
@Vince-l4k
@Vince-l4k 3 ай бұрын
I was born in that year, still rember victoriana tpyes, walking around, old but nice people
@trytellingthetruth.2068
@trytellingthetruth.2068 10 ай бұрын
Is Mr Chumley warner narrating this film ?
@ivortoad
@ivortoad 9 ай бұрын
Love these old educational trade films
@tarquin4592
@tarquin4592 2 жыл бұрын
Apparently, the woman at the end of the clip is still awaiting the police's arrival!
@nathanboulton2066
@nathanboulton2066 Жыл бұрын
not in those days. the police bothered to turn up back then. although they did have more numbers and far fewer people to police!!
@IAMPLEDGE
@IAMPLEDGE 9 ай бұрын
Moral of the first story: Don't draw out the equivalent of £10.76 million annually, all on the same day and then drive up the A1081 St Albans Road with it in the motor. Sooner or later someone is going to notice and want to chore it off you.
@dawnyWestScotland
@dawnyWestScotland 11 ай бұрын
Loved the old footage! 😆
@xvrays
@xvrays 9 ай бұрын
Crikey! I was 15 when this was released. Oh for the good old days.
@heybuh007
@heybuh007 8 ай бұрын
I’m an American who grew up in London in the 60’s and 70’’s. My best friend lives in Dublin and travels to London. He’s told me “don’t go back. Remember what you had.”
@shazanali692
@shazanali692 8 ай бұрын
The folks of the 60s and 70s the old folks hated all the styles and music of the 1960s. They wish they could go back to the 1920s. So what changed
@TDC7594
@TDC7594 Ай бұрын
​@@shazanali692 Demographic replacement and its consequent destruction of national culture. And that's quite different from mere, perennial generational trends.
@blzebub2
@blzebub2 Ай бұрын
Yeah yeah, London is fine.
@brettwalters-n4u
@brettwalters-n4u 9 ай бұрын
The UK of my childhood...
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
The dear lady shopper waltzing along the pavement with bag wide open and purse conveniently balanced on the top! The only thing missing from this scene is a bloody big notice sticking up with "Steal Me!" written on it........
@Wench64
@Wench64 9 ай бұрын
But in those days we had morals
@LuciThomasHardylover-qx6ts
@LuciThomasHardylover-qx6ts 8 ай бұрын
My daughter found a £20 note on the floor of m&s in a service station a few years ago. Very excited she was😂 But I explained that we needed to hand it in,it's owner probably hadn't got very far, and how upset would we be if we lost £20. So,girl at the till called her manager down who took the note and said that they would give it to charity. At which point I started to feel cross. He wouldn't take any details of where it was found and when so that someone could get it back. When I pointed out that the usual procedure is to write down who found it, where,& when and if it isn't claimed within a reasonable time frame it's often returned to the finder he got really unpleasant, stuffed it in his pocket and slammed himself behind the staff only door. Not really the good example I was trying to set in front of a child. That's a big thing that's changed, people behaved so much better in front of children,any children. Now it's a free for all and we still blame the children for behaving badly.
@georgen.8027
@georgen.8027 2 ай бұрын
This was filmed in 1963, even if released in 1965. The cheque (1:04) is dated 1963 and newspaper has a photo of JFK in the Oval Office (8:07), meaning it was certainly filmed prior to November 1963.
@vinniechenz73
@vinniechenz73 Жыл бұрын
That devious chap stole the clapperboard while the family were watching TV @ 5:12 What a cad!
@QuoPaperPlane
@QuoPaperPlane 9 ай бұрын
Absolute shower!
@clavichord
@clavichord 8 ай бұрын
A bit of sloppy film editing, me thinks...
@michaelcarlos8686
@michaelcarlos8686 5 ай бұрын
Cads and bounders were rampant across England back in the day
@FigaroHey
@FigaroHey 9 ай бұрын
Fat chance that meter reader has of getting into Hyacinth Bucket's house.
@SiberiaDreams
@SiberiaDreams 7 ай бұрын
Richard!!!
@psychedelicpython
@psychedelicpython 2 жыл бұрын
Not asking for credentials. This reminded me about something that happened on October 30, 1987 in Seattle at Harberview Hospital ER one night. It was around 11:30 PM when a man in painters clothes carrying a ladder walked in and past the front desk. The receptionist didn’t ask any questions but let him pass. I was sitting in the waiting room where he set up the ladder, climb up, and looked to be checking the wall. He asked me if about going to a Halloween party the next evening but left shortly after I told him I had boyfriend. Years later I watching a documentary on the Green River Killer and the man in he ER that night was none other than Gary Ridgeway the Green River Killer himself. 😳
@repentbeforeitstoolate..8239
@repentbeforeitstoolate..8239 2 жыл бұрын
😱
@Genevathistime
@Genevathistime 2 жыл бұрын
Have you told any authority about that? It could prove helpful for them to know about that behavior.
@pom8130
@pom8130 2 жыл бұрын
@@Genevathistime thas crazy 😱😊
@kimsmithboswell958
@kimsmithboswell958 Жыл бұрын
Do you know that gypsy's are eygptjan isn't that canny
@rapman5363
@rapman5363 Жыл бұрын
No way, he worked as a painter at the Kenworth Factory. He wasn’t a burglar or robber and his M.O. was to assault prostitutes not just troll hospitals for his quarry. I think you are mistaking him for someone else.
@Tony11806
@Tony11806 8 ай бұрын
I was five in 1965 and remember Britain as it was back then.
@Lovemy911
@Lovemy911 9 ай бұрын
Aah ....when England was English 😮 Gone but never forgotten
@localbod
@localbod 9 ай бұрын
It will be when people old enough to remember are gone.
@daveericson8447
@daveericson8447 9 ай бұрын
Prefer it now
@Buttlands
@Buttlands 9 ай бұрын
Pleasant accent the reporter had. Quite uncommon now.
@sie4431
@sie4431 9 ай бұрын
Let me check.... still English
@billybop65
@billybop65 8 ай бұрын
What’s English, Anglo Saxon?Norman? Viking? English is just French spoken badly 😂
@nrw34260
@nrw34260 5 ай бұрын
£8000 in 1965 is the equivalent of £194000 today. You can't even draw £8k in cash from a bank nowadays.
@jozefserf2024
@jozefserf2024 9 ай бұрын
The way that security has increased in public is a shocking reminder of the decline of public behaviour.
@iseegoodandbad6758
@iseegoodandbad6758 9 ай бұрын
Too much processed foods and chemicals nowadays. It affects behaviour terribly!
@sie4431
@sie4431 9 ай бұрын
This shows there was no decline we're just better at preventing it
@LuciThomasHardylover-qx6ts
@LuciThomasHardylover-qx6ts 8 ай бұрын
Lack of proper parenting has a lot to answer for too. I see so many mothers, thinking that they are being the best mother they can be,by helicoptering around their children marvelling at everything they do, taking to task anyone or anything that thwarts the little darlings wishes. Then they become the aggressive, entitled adults that we have posters about everywhere we go. Who could have imagined that we, the English, famous for queuing and apologising when someone else knocks into us on the pavement would become such a nation of foul slovenly louts.😞
@matthewwilliams3827
@matthewwilliams3827 8 ай бұрын
@@iseegoodandbad6758yeah agreed, I’ve been fully convinced of all the processed foods are creating more sick people.
@davids8449
@davids8449 2 жыл бұрын
The Government has learnt a lot from the chap with the glasses
@JohnSmith-ei2pz
@JohnSmith-ei2pz 9 ай бұрын
Yes stole my RAF pension, along with thousands more!
@puppets.and.muppets
@puppets.and.muppets 9 ай бұрын
i got plenty of good crime tips from this.
@trevorhayward467
@trevorhayward467 8 ай бұрын
No way would my old man have gotten up to make the tea he didnt even get up to turn telly over that was us kids job
@video99couk
@video99couk 8 ай бұрын
The year I was born. Oh people go on about the good old days, but it wasn't. Living standards were low, very low indeed, for many people. I remember a cold, damp house. We didn't have a car. Or a bicycle. Or a fridge, washing machine, vacuum cleaner, TV, tape recorder, record player, or anything electrical apart from a simple AM radio. Yet my dad was in the RAF. Times were tough.
@NigelHyphenJones
@NigelHyphenJones 8 ай бұрын
Well I’m a bit older than you and yes, they were the “good old days”. I don’t recognise London or the country that I grew up in. The English culture has been completely obliterated and we are made to feel guilty if we mention it….. and before you start, my mother was a legal immigrant to this country, so don’t play the race card
@llwyde1104
@llwyde1104 8 ай бұрын
You mentioned race😅
@TheCatLady65
@TheCatLady65 8 ай бұрын
@@NigelHyphenJones You're a racist. So there
@Chernochegger
@Chernochegger 8 ай бұрын
Just say you were poor
@Carroty_Peg
@Carroty_Peg 3 ай бұрын
more to life than mere material comforts. spiritually and community-wise there's zero these days.
@cornishhh
@cornishhh 10 ай бұрын
When did banks start having security screens between customer and teller?
@rajkhimani9119
@rajkhimani9119 9 ай бұрын
Time to call Simon Templar!!
@tomcat2395
@tomcat2395 9 ай бұрын
I thought the same thing very much a Saint vibe
@hugostiglitz6914
@hugostiglitz6914 9 ай бұрын
First one, Mr Cholmondeley-Warner got a right pasting!😂😂
@LongNoseBreaker
@LongNoseBreaker 2 ай бұрын
J
@Sweet.G
@Sweet.G 9 ай бұрын
That bloke hardly hit him, i recon a inside job
@jodygoar7071
@jodygoar7071 9 ай бұрын
If England only looked like that again.
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
Gone for good, I'm afraid.
@patriciamanville4770
@patriciamanville4770 9 ай бұрын
Wouldnt that be so good. Wish I had appreciated it more at the time
@NauerBauer
@NauerBauer 9 ай бұрын
Thatcher ruined it
@hugostiglitz6914
@hugostiglitz6914 9 ай бұрын
Would you really swop it?
@geoffsclassiccars
@geoffsclassiccars 9 ай бұрын
​@@hugostiglitz6914yes
@Firebrand55
@Firebrand55 3 ай бұрын
...all done in the best possible taste, with impeccable dress code and super English style......but the message is as vital today as it was then.......DON'T ASSUME; ........CHECK!
@tugwilsond8907
@tugwilsond8907 8 ай бұрын
The editing in this film is criminal
@mrpeel3239
@mrpeel3239 3 ай бұрын
I remember commuter chaps like that (circa mid-80s) on the Tunbridge Wells trains.
@DofTF
@DofTF Жыл бұрын
£8,000 quid back then was a small fortune.
@eddiek0507
@eddiek0507 9 ай бұрын
Still is to some..🤔
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
Good grief, you could buy a neat little bungalow and an un-flashy family saloon to park on the driveway!
@IAMPLEDGE
@IAMPLEDGE 9 ай бұрын
It was only £7862. Every week. That's roughly £10.76 million per year. No wonder that bank in Barnet is a Domino's Pizza now...
@marcse7en
@marcse7en 9 ай бұрын
My late father bought a semi-detached bungalow in a "posh" area of Lancaster in 1968 for £4,000 cash. He sold our old terraced house for £900. I've recently inherited said bungalow, now valued at £300,000.
@ulutiu
@ulutiu 8 ай бұрын
around £150k of today's money
@markienatnots9479
@markienatnots9479 8 ай бұрын
Not a tracksuit in sight.
@dean6816
@dean6816 8 ай бұрын
or Ninjas!!
@NigelHyphenJones
@NigelHyphenJones 8 ай бұрын
Or a machete 🤔
@Tony11806
@Tony11806 8 ай бұрын
You ain't seen my next door neighbour who lives in his tracksuit.
@NigelHyphenJones
@NigelHyphenJones 8 ай бұрын
@@Tony11806 Is it Ali G?
@Tony11806
@Tony11806 8 ай бұрын
@@NigelHyphenJones I have not seen him wearing a yellow tracksuit yet.
@TheodoreScopeline
@TheodoreScopeline 8 ай бұрын
Where did all the English go to? Did they lose a war? What happened to them???
@NigelHyphenJones
@NigelHyphenJones 8 ай бұрын
It appears that that was all a waste of time…. 🤔
@anthonyarcher4744
@anthonyarcher4744 9 ай бұрын
When criminals were scumbags.....not victims.
@NauerBauer
@NauerBauer 9 ай бұрын
This looks like a prequel to the Pink Panther
@فيصل-ه9ق
@فيصل-ه9ق 2 жыл бұрын
تصوير ايام الزمن الجميل
@LongNoseBreaker
@LongNoseBreaker 2 ай бұрын
Yea, that's how you speak English in England nowadays
@johnhughes3796
@johnhughes3796 10 ай бұрын
Public information film. Whatever happened to them?
@johnniethepom7545
@johnniethepom7545 10 ай бұрын
They don't make them today because they would need so many different languages to reach the broader population . Anyway teenagers today know everything about everything !
@marcse7en
@marcse7en 9 ай бұрын
They're shown on KZbin for reasons of nostalgia!
@DD-ts5oj
@DD-ts5oj 8 ай бұрын
OMG!! Someone holding a pen properly!! 3:18. Make a still shot of that & post it in every classroom in the world!!!! 🖊 😄
@alanmusicman3385
@alanmusicman3385 8 ай бұрын
Not much has changed really. In the noughties I used to commute into London in 1st class every day. Some of the rather ungaurded talk I used to overhear would probably have been highly useful to me had I been in the spy business or running some kind of business intelligence service related to defence procurement. Usually just small bits of information - but if I had been so minded (which I was not) I could probably have collected them and built up a quite detailed picture from the pieces. Groups of people on trains tend to forget there are others very close to them.
@ivanbluetarski9071
@ivanbluetarski9071 3 ай бұрын
loose lips sink ships etc.
@Gunnercv
@Gunnercv 4 ай бұрын
The cars are marvellous
@RaveDave871
@RaveDave871 3 ай бұрын
1963 this film. Not 1965. Date on cheque Oct 63 and JFK on news photo in the Telegraph
@RaveDave871
@RaveDave871 3 ай бұрын
5.10 nice clapperboard Path News
@darrellgarfield3523
@darrellgarfield3523 9 ай бұрын
Tone deaf whistling can never be trusted.
@roymcneil6026
@roymcneil6026 8 ай бұрын
Grated on my nerves the tuneless repetition
@thinkingallowed7042
@thinkingallowed7042 Жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed that. Not sure why. The narration is odd and obscure.
@misterwhipple2870
@misterwhipple2870 4 ай бұрын
In this modern world, we have scammers and credit-card fraud, but thank God you don't have to use cash unless you want to, and that means you can carry much less, and the chance of getting bashed in the head has gone waaay down. Of course, anyone who would carry such amounts of cash is a damned fool and always has been.
@tonyboloni64
@tonyboloni64 8 ай бұрын
Wouldn't folks realize trouble was afoot when the whistling began?
@captaincat1743
@captaincat1743 8 ай бұрын
Just after 4:54 they left a shot of the clapper board in the final cut LOL. The editor probably had 4 or pints with his lunch that day.
@davids8449
@davids8449 2 жыл бұрын
The chap seems to be using an old cheque from 1963
@lunastargoddess1632
@lunastargoddess1632 8 ай бұрын
Wasn't hat chap in the Beatles Hard Day's Night? on the train too?
@kiwiwifi
@kiwiwifi 9 ай бұрын
60s Crime tutorial
@johnpaulnash8144
@johnpaulnash8144 7 ай бұрын
These films are so valuable for history. Children are tough these days that Britain was never a white nation and was always "diverse".
@davids8449
@davids8449 8 ай бұрын
1:04 This is a case for Sherlock Holmes......The cheque dated 1963 and the film was made 1965
@ivanbluetarski9071
@ivanbluetarski9071 3 ай бұрын
banking was a bit slower back then , no apps or onlinr banking you see 🤣 oh and no atm.s either
@DazDaz105
@DazDaz105 3 ай бұрын
When criminals were gentlemen.
@bengardiner1075
@bengardiner1075 3 ай бұрын
What’s with the whistling 🤯
@ShakespeareCafe
@ShakespeareCafe 7 ай бұрын
Shoot, that amateur-hour roadblock scenario is so obvious that the driver would immediately initiate a Rockford Files J-Turn and beat it.
@McNoiseboy
@McNoiseboy 9 ай бұрын
Never mind all that, it's 2024. An Englishman, Irishman & Scotsman walk into a bank and.... hang on, that's the doorbell. What's that officer? Hate crime?? But I was only telling a j... AAAAAARGGGHHHHH!!! WHY ARE YOU TAZERING ME?!?!? AAAARGH! Etc.
@keithnaylor1981
@keithnaylor1981 7 ай бұрын
I bet hardly anyone checks their change in supermarkets. The check-out person is shown on a screen how much change to give - and we just assume that is what we have been given! And - ALWAYS have a quick glance down your receipt to see if anything has been accidentally scanned more than once! It DOES happen!
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
"I've come to read the meter" "Is that so? We've had a wood burning stove for the last 50 years, chummy!" (Boy, the housewives in these films are naive!) 8:24
@markwilson9061
@markwilson9061 8 ай бұрын
The numberplate of the get away car was PAR 654..
@cunninglinguist-hu1dz
@cunninglinguist-hu1dz 7 ай бұрын
Some amazing moustache's being sported here.
@alphonsocarioti512
@alphonsocarioti512 Жыл бұрын
The bad British guys always have the best 'staches!
@t.jconnolly6492
@t.jconnolly6492 9 ай бұрын
Whistle while you work gets on your nerves who ever thought that was good idea
@curtislowe4577
@curtislowe4577 2 ай бұрын
Ah yes the British sense of fair play. Without it Kim Philby and the other four of the Cambridge Five would have never been able to compromise MI6 to the extent they did.
@55tranquility
@55tranquility 2 ай бұрын
Spot on, and getting away with nothing more than a ticking off and immunity from prosecution... but chose to defect. Unlike George Blake who couldn't rely on class protections, and wasn't 'a good sort' so they gave him 40 years.
@patkearney9320
@patkearney9320 9 ай бұрын
Back in the day the intel always came from inside the boss would piss someone off and they would gladly pay him back.
@Al-iv3mb
@Al-iv3mb 7 ай бұрын
Ah, oh for the days when Ron and Reg ruled the East End, and the Richardson's looked after South London.
@stuartmarshall7099
@stuartmarshall7099 8 ай бұрын
Graham Gardner from the Goodies as the thief?
@BongoBoy-l9o
@BongoBoy-l9o 3 ай бұрын
Reminds me of Lord Melbury...
@johnathanryan2117
@johnathanryan2117 3 ай бұрын
Bounders, Cads and Ne'er do well Rogues, the whole Bally lot of em
@flashstudiosguy
@flashstudiosguy 2 жыл бұрын
Few minor goofs in this like crew appearing
@derekthompson6992
@derekthompson6992 2 жыл бұрын
I always accompanied my boss to the bank to collect pay money every two weeks for 70 people I had the case chained to my wrist he had the keys for the case and was *licensed to carry a loaded handgun* when going to and from the bank this was ina country town as well.
@samsum3738
@samsum3738 9 ай бұрын
And now you have to fill in 20 forms to use a public toilet , if not now , it will be so in a few years , methinks .
@pom8130
@pom8130 2 жыл бұрын
No it's My crime
@BangerFleet
@BangerFleet 6 ай бұрын
:27 looks suspiciously like Sir Humphrey Appleby
@antonyjohn6136
@antonyjohn6136 8 ай бұрын
The sort of chap who always voted Conservative. The Party that preferred Ted Heath to Enoch Powell.
@pauloliver6813
@pauloliver6813 9 ай бұрын
It's Slartiblartfast. Seriously.
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d
@MargaretMcLaughlin-c7d 9 ай бұрын
I wonder what that family are watching on the telly? It must be something earnest and miserable. A party political broadcast, at a wild guess......
@My2up2downCastle
@My2up2downCastle 8 ай бұрын
Beware of dastardly miscreants and utter, utter cads.....
@Sweet.G
@Sweet.G 5 ай бұрын
Happy days when u got paid every friday
@julianciahaconsulting8663
@julianciahaconsulting8663 2 жыл бұрын
this is a rather odd one from Pathe isnt it? One can interpret this in a number of ways couldnt you?
@Granite-city1806
@Granite-city1806 7 ай бұрын
I’ll be honest there was a point in time,he’d of had a face full of spray paint and a pinched motor to split in,I mourn our isles but I do feel like a hypocrite because crime doesn’t have a colour or a religion it just is ,like breathing,some want what you have but don’t want none of the getting it in the first place part,quite amazing how facial hair has went downhill 📈
@johnhehir508
@johnhehir508 9 ай бұрын
The days when you could park your car on the road network your ,taxes paid for
@Sweet.G
@Sweet.G 5 ай бұрын
You could buy a house for a grand
@wpl955g9
@wpl955g9 9 ай бұрын
OpSec, 60s style..
@tikamutihana5109
@tikamutihana5109 2 жыл бұрын
👏👏👏
@bapsmcginty4782
@bapsmcginty4782 8 ай бұрын
Absolute shower!
@musicbill101
@musicbill101 8 ай бұрын
Scams 1960’s style
@claygorovoy5467
@claygorovoy5467 9 ай бұрын
You could be the fake royals
@LongNoseBreaker
@LongNoseBreaker 2 ай бұрын
J
@Surreptitious_1
@Surreptitious_1 8 ай бұрын
Ahhh, another Pathe video, another time I remember how much I hate Blairs political class.
@mabihinafff942
@mabihinafff942 Жыл бұрын
قهوة شاي لحمة كتف وراك ريش ٠٠٠ اطلب يامرزوق
@davidbeard90
@davidbeard90 8 ай бұрын
Love the comments. Anti racists and woke lefties seriously lack in the humour department.
@coisasparameninas
@coisasparameninas 2 жыл бұрын
Legal
@corneliushfc4370
@corneliushfc4370 9 ай бұрын
Oh please do not take us back to those sorts of times , I know we love the idyllic and simple life more than we have now, or perhaps someone prefers there to only be white people in their neighbourhood, whatever it is you definitely don't want the busybody era back again, that was utterly awful..
@bombski5657
@bombski5657 9 ай бұрын
I have an surefire way to make us 8 grand. All we need to do is total a 10 grand motor. Obviously inflation but it made me giggle
@altt-check1-2
@altt-check1-2 8 ай бұрын
Ahh the British of the once Great Britain …. How fkt up is our country now ah
@jgrif3856
@jgrif3856 8 ай бұрын
i wish england wasnt full of pack keys now
@matthewwilliams3827
@matthewwilliams3827 8 ай бұрын
Same, but what can we do?
@daveericson8447
@daveericson8447 8 ай бұрын
@@matthewwilliams3827 you can both move
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