Our Land Rover Defender Misfire Is Fixed at the Dealers... What Was The Issue ?

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powerfulukltd

Күн бұрын

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@Oxers-KO Ай бұрын

Really pleased it wasn’t anything more serious - Have a good week ahead.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Yes I was not looking forward to the conversation about a new engine..

@stevestone4346 Ай бұрын

My ol jag has Denso coils with Japan stamped on them. 25 years later she’s still running sweetly.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Yes i think i know which i would prefer !

@hughmarcus1 Ай бұрын

You don’t want anything Denso if you’ve got a diesel though.

@mbak7801 Ай бұрын

Oh for the 1970s when there was one coil and it cost just over £4. My Landrover Lightweight had one of those.

@HQBProductions Ай бұрын

Phew!!…a simple answer then Simon…and thank goodness. I had my car checked very carefully for service and repair history and I can say that it has been fault free from brand new but it is always in use and a rare day when not driven. Yes do take D90 to France to get it hot as that oil mayonnaise is worrying…how did it build up so quickly?? Someone commented on how he likes his 30 year old Pajero….mine was a 1994 and when I sold it in2007 at 106,000 miles, the only repairs were an exhaust at 95,000 and an alternator at 101,000…..nothing else went wrong and it was still on its original battery!! 😃😃😃Stay safe! Richard

@L663 Ай бұрын

Hi Richard - yes all good.. interesting as I think your car has the P200 engine in it ? the ignition coils for that are made in Japan !

@HQBProductions Ай бұрын

@@L663 Hello Simon…yes mine is the 2.0l petrol four cylinder engine….im pleased it has Japanese coils and I hope a lot more..I like Japanese electrics! My old friend Bill was fascinated by the outstanding quality of Japanese motorcycles in the 1970’s….he compared U.K. bikes to being more like the standard of lawn mowers! 😱😀😀

@Final_Drive Ай бұрын

That could well be moisture ingress into the coil electronics. A good run to France will do it wonders! Thanks for the update! 👏

@g0fvt Ай бұрын

The ECU should be able to spot a cylinder that is weak, with data from both the crank sensor and the cam sensor it knows exactly what angle the crank is at and on which stroke for each cylinder. From this data it can spot which cylinder is not contributing as much as the others. (the crank will momentarily slow down). Diesels use this information to spot an injector that is down.

@L663 Ай бұрын

I did read about this - the whole science of diagnostics is very interesting !

@GavinEarnshaw Ай бұрын

Came here to add this. I'm reasonably certain that the first LR able to do this was the Thor Rover V8 with the Bosch 60-2 system.

@hunt4redoctober628 Ай бұрын

Had an ignitor coild fail on my V8 4.2lt Maserati once. Exactly the same misfiring behaviour. I bought a new one for £120 and fitted it myself after confirming which cylinder was misfiring with my OBR2 reader. Took me an hour to do. Sorted. Only issue is I have 8 of them! Apparently they all start to fail around 40,000k miles. Its the heat from the engines which bakes the coil and eventually it breaks down the electrics.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Man is just flexing he has a V8 Maserati ... interesting your coil failed at 40K miles ( even though you wrote 40,000K which is 40 Million miles ! ) my coil failed at 850 miles !

@marcjennings9602 8 күн бұрын

Simon what was that GWM control module A fault? I've got that on my gap tool as a fault before.

@L663 7 күн бұрын

I am not sure... gateway module on the CANbus ?

@erikyoung2193 Ай бұрын

Hey Simon, big fan of your KZbin channel. Tons and tons of fun content to watch. I recently ran into an issue with my 2020 110 and it seems to be prominent with other owners. Wondered if you’ve run into it or have ideas around how to fix. I’ve got the off road pack with a locking rear differential. When turning left from a stop, the rear differential seems to struggle. It clunks and thuds as though it can’t unlock properly. There is a tsb for this issue where the rear differential should be flushed twice. I’ve done this but it seemed to only make the clunking more prominent. It has 40k miles and the service suggestion is supposed to be at 60k. Any thoughts would be great. Glad your misfire is now fixed 👍

@L663 Ай бұрын

Interesting - The Stig does not have the rear E Diff - although i have an E Diff fault on the L494 sport. Can you put the off road display up and see what it says the rear diff is doing ? ( locked / unlocked etc ). Also what about disabling / unplugging the rear diff what does this do ?

@erikyoung2193 Ай бұрын

@ the off road display shows it unlocking when starting to accelerate and turn as it should and this is when the clunk/thud is felt. Haven’t yet unplugged/disconnected the electrics yet as I’m worried about creating new issues.

@kevinabalo Ай бұрын

Bosch stopped making their own ignition hardware some time ago. That's one of the reasons I sold my T-5R .. the Maf on that needed to be Bosch, a cheap copy would, and did soon fail, and the Bosch ones were nla.

@isaacwinton 24 күн бұрын

This is epic mate. Keep making videos for dumbies like me to understand whats going on under the hood.

@eddieMurphy11111 Ай бұрын

look if you keep having trouble with it you can always give it to me LOL glad you got it fixed seriously though I would love one but i doubt I will ever get one

@mrgrumpy771 Ай бұрын

If you look at Harry’s Garage he was lamenting the ridiculous level of tech on new cars which then fails. Just like this. Mad

@Davidrobertwhittaker Ай бұрын

True point generally, but not sure this is an example of that… a failed coil pack is a very 1980s kind of issue!

@L663 Ай бұрын

But 6 times more likely as there are 6 of them.... but at least i could still drive with 5 out of 6 working...

@BionicRusty Ай бұрын

Since the 90’s, I’ve been saying that when cars break down, these days, you no longer need a mechanic, it’s always a NASA engineer that you need. It was definitely true with 90’s cars but it’s got so much worse, now with ‘planned MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure)’. And even worse are these damn OBD codes. In my experience , well over 50% of the time, codes come up that are absolutely nothing to do with the actual fault. Even with all of this tech, it’s still a process of elimination as even dealers can’t correctly diagnose electronic issues. But with today’s cars, every process costs ~£1,000. 😭

@drjosephmirarchi7259 Ай бұрын

Simon,, have you ever heard of having a problem with the new defender tpms system where the car is not communicating with the tire pressure sensors even after the tpms module is replaced?

@L663 Ай бұрын

Not heard of this issue.

@norb0254 Ай бұрын

With the truck brand i work for ,a compression test is done with their laptop.it measures the rotational speed of the crankshaft per cylinder..so if down on compression on a cylinder then it sees an increase in speed .It also does a cylinder contribution test with the engine running and again it measures the speed of the crankshaft .so between the 2 tests you can diagnose compression issue in 30 seconds ,or a fuelling issue which takes about 5 mins as it will do that test 3 times on each cylinder ..i am probably wrong but LR must be able to do something like that

@steverogersolo4 Ай бұрын

Interesting bit on early life failure. I'm in the purple patch with my Freelander on 112000 miles just keeping fingers crossed it's going to last a while longer.

@L663 Ай бұрын

These are good for 200K

@moriwaki1105 Ай бұрын

Enjoying your videos. But I simply can't be on with trouble on modern cars. Back and Foreword to dealers. Had nothing but grief on my V8 Tuareg. Won't make that mistake again. Enjoying my FJ Cruiser. You're welcome to borrow it for a day pal 😊

@paulbrooker5203 Ай бұрын

Why does anyone buy a new car , only 800 miles and this happens, a family member brought a new Nissan X-Trail , first the computer stops working so in the dealer for a month then the battery dies , I'm going to stick with my 30 year old Pajero, love your videos Simon

@L663 Ай бұрын

Buying a new car is actually quite a risky idea .. better to buy one used for a year - let someone else work out the teething issues ?

@andrewbaker7854 Ай бұрын

@@L663 Modern cars are full of nannying electronic rubbish that no one wants as well as too reliant of electronics generally. Even though `I could afford a lot, I won't buy anything modern for those reasons. In addition, no new vehicle appeals to me. I drive a 1997 Defender as a daily and a L322 Range Rover for posher trips. And a 2cv for fun. We have a Berlingo van for our staff which is hideous and hugely irritating not to. mention boring with a capital B.

@mikefly562 Ай бұрын

@@L663 Agree 100% I heard from friend that is a Land Rover fan is that the best thing you can do with any complex, new vehicle, is to buy a used one, so that the 1st owner works out the bugs. Lot's of cars have parts in 'infant mortality' in which parts may fail quickly, and once replaced, the vehicle can be trouble free for a long time.

@sbrader97 Ай бұрын

I think this could be down to the lack of use or short journeys causing the coil to fail prematurely but normally u expect them to at least last into the thousands of miles even at this worst case scenario

@terryurquhart2413 Ай бұрын

It had only done 800 miles !! Coil pack shouldnt fail at that mileage

@L663 Ай бұрын

It has not even had may short journeys... but lack of use yes. It should not be a factor for a solid state component.

@system11yt Ай бұрын

I had a coil pack go on my little Fiat 500 last year - at least these failures are cheap. My Defender is making a strange little shake from the back when I pull away mostly when cold turning to the right - any idea? It's booked in but the local place is ... not very good and the booking isn't until December, I made it a month ago. They also need to program the second key which the other retailer finally posted to me after 3 months.

@L663 Ай бұрын

No idea what could be causing your rear end to shake ! at a guess it could be suspension mounts ? Programming the 2nd. key can be tricky depends if they locked the KVM !

@system11yt Ай бұрын

@@L663 They sent a module with it, maybe that's a new KVM! Yes the little wobble is really strange, it's very pronounced when it happens, but I can only do it from near rest. I started to wonder if it's something to do with the diff slipping as it doesn't happen doing left or in a straight line. It also stops once the car is fully warm, perhaps the oil in there warms up and it stops? You have made me think though - I assume the bolts for the rear struts are buried somewhere behind the interior trim? Front ones are easy to get to, one of those did have 1 loose bolt due to a previous owner deciding they were a good ground point....

@L663 Ай бұрын

Do you have the rear E-Diff Could it be this landroverforums.com/forum/2020-defender-60/diff-oil-change-new-clunking-sound-114622/

@jimmyquinn9639 Ай бұрын

Another good video Simon 👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍

@L663 Ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

@francb1276 Ай бұрын

1:51 - They are indeed that clever. The diagnostics will know which cylinder is dodgy from the crank position and (probably) measurements of crank acceleration between ignition events. If there is no firing on a particular cylinder it will not inject fuel. I assume they are still using Bosch engine management, and I have seen, and read a tiny fraction of, the supplier's control strategy document for AJ200 (Ingenium 4-cyl petrol and diesel), which is several tens of thousands of pages if I recall. A small amount of it is engine control calculations, the rest is diagnostics! It models the whole engine in software including warm-up and time since last run, knows how quickly the engine will warm up and cool down and then compares what it can see with what it thinks ought to be happening. If any sensors (apart from one of either crank or camshaft sensor, and throttle demand which has at least two independent readings anyway) are faulty it will flag a fault and continue to run normally using the mathematical model, and the driver will hardly notice. I have seen one run on a testbed with essentially no sensors except camshaft connected, much to the surprise of the guys who were just trying to turn it over to get oil pressure before a test... 😮

@roberttruman8332 Ай бұрын

A good turn out in the end then Simon. I would have thought that the gap tool would have said it was a coil pack as opposed to saying it was a misfire?

@L663 Ай бұрын

I am not sure it can tell - it depends what the car ECU is looking at .. Ionisation or coil resistance / Back EMF etc.

@stevenmoran4060 Ай бұрын

Sorry but at 800 miles from new, faults should not be appearing.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Agreed - but this could just be a one off fluke... ?

@mattclarke783 Ай бұрын

My Yamaha MT-09 SP engine warning light has just come on after less than 300km - that’s from one of the most reliable motorbikes on the market. It happens!

@mrbigvanlife7130 Ай бұрын

On any car with thousands of components there can be some early failures. Get these flukes out of the way and hopefully plain sailing a while.

@user-xu5vl5th9n Ай бұрын

That is why it is called "infant mortality". It is hard to eliminate without having a "burn in" of new parts. This is what is done for microprocessors but that is not feasible for most parts.

@tomthompson7400 Ай бұрын

id be changing the oil before the trip and again after it , first couple of oil changes are way more important than many folk think they are , and after that it would be every 6k on those ingenium engines , oil and filter twice a year , especially the diesel.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Good point - I will get the parts on order and do a video.

@_chipchip Ай бұрын

But it’s petrol?

@tomthompson7400 Ай бұрын

@@_chipchip I know that , it wouldnt have coil packs otherwise ,,, but oil is the cheapest mechanic you can find.

@5rgs17 Ай бұрын

As soon I saw the cream in the oil filler cap and okay oil & coolant it immediately said to me that you have not been warming it up and using it. Give it a long run and an 'Indian Tune-Up'.

@adrianbrunton8579 Ай бұрын

My 90 had the Key Security update and now the key will not work in my right trouser pocket, it has to be in my left pocket. Also if I hold hold the key to the sensor in the column, start the car and put the key in the cup holder it often flashes up and says the key is no longer detected. Its all a bit close.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Interesting - I will have to give those things a try

@adrianbrunton8579 Ай бұрын

@@L663 Its on the list for the dealer when she has her 1st service in Jan. Dont forget the uncomfortable front seats in the 90 Hardtops !!!!

@joncollett4631 Ай бұрын

Just a comment on the new security update, when mine went in, I said do you need the activity key?" They said no, so the activity key is not needed for the security update, thought that was a bit odd, anyone have a comment on that?

@L663 Ай бұрын

Does your activity key work after the upgrade ?

@joncollett4631 Ай бұрын

@L663 yes, the activity key still works fine

@desmcdermott6090 Ай бұрын

I have had coil packs go on motorbikes and cars and they always manifest through misfiring. An easy fix, but it is usually when you have a lot of mileage on the clock.

@L663 Ай бұрын

Yes strange for one to go with such low mileage. Would be interesting to know the route cause of failure in the coil pack itself.

@johnelbro127 Ай бұрын

👍👍👍👍

@RS7John Ай бұрын

To be honest you don't need to mess about changing coils etc now you can get an attachment that plugs into the oscilloscope and you just simply touch it on top of the coil it picks up the magnetic field and gives you a visual image of what's happening

@L663 Ай бұрын

Such wizardary !

@struanrobertson3417 Ай бұрын

Cars are just too complicated these days!

@L663 Ай бұрын

I guess it comes down to probability - if the car has 10,000 critical parts the chance of one of them going wrong at some point is quite high.

@plugman1963 Ай бұрын

I watched a documentary about the land rover discovery a couple of months ago, the presenter said the car had 74 separate modules! Any wonder things go wrong.

@L663 Ай бұрын

I think it could be more than that...

@hughmarcus1 Ай бұрын

Actually not that unusual in a new car nowadays

@timfoster506 Ай бұрын

This coil is made by a European Supplier in China (Not Bosch) as it is carry over from the P3 PHEV engine which is made in China since 2019, so not a new part for the AJ20P6. The V8 is a Ford engine and very old so completely different coil packs. FYI the new V8 is a BMW engine so also completely different to Ingenium engines.

@terryurquhart2413 Ай бұрын

I wouldnt have an ingenium engined car even if JLR paid me

@L663 Ай бұрын

If i put the part number into the JLR parts system and do a reverse lookup it is only showing as being used on this engine ( P400 ). Interesting a different part is used on the P200 also an ingenium engine - the P200 coil is made in Japan ?... makes you wonder...

@rafflesnh Ай бұрын

@@terryurquhart2413 On my Discovery Sport forum, there are hardly ever any complaints about petrol engined Ingenium cars, even the earlier Phase 1 models.

@tonyallen1020 Ай бұрын

Why didn’t the engine management system not show an amber light with the fault

@L663 Ай бұрын

Good question…. It did in the end but took ages

@Cous1nJack Ай бұрын

Didn’t not? Eh?

@fire44x Ай бұрын

My new diesel transit has now failed non start not turning over 6weeks old

@L663 Ай бұрын

Not just Land Rover then !

@equaliser2265 Ай бұрын

Just drive it, dont stick stuff on it.. Drive long distances and see what she does.go to the South of France and back. It will do it good. Cheers

@L663 Ай бұрын

I hear you... but the whole point of a Defender is you can add stuff to it and personalise it.... show me an old Defender that is how it came out of the factory..

@dennis3779 Ай бұрын

It needs much better crankcase ventilation. But other than that it is a real Ninety and not a surrender with complex RR technology and computers so you can fix it with a hammer out in the bush bush.

@dennis3779 Ай бұрын

It is actually the opposite of simple and overbuild. That cheap faulty coil should not cost more than a few cents. And yes they come with faults from factory. Nothing new. And every computer should have a computer that checks the computer and itself.

@mountainofpower 29 күн бұрын

Oh the joy of having a Land Rover under warranty. Australian dealers in their suits, white sneakers & t-shirts will spit on you and tell you to leave if you are out of warranty.

@L663 28 күн бұрын

I cant see why the dealer cares if it is warranty or not.. they get paid either way !

@AndyK.1 Ай бұрын

20 years ago, coils were 4 pin. One pin was a feedback pin to let the ecu know if the spark was successful.

@L663 Ай бұрын

I will need to check the wiring diagram to see.

@rafflesnh Ай бұрын

@@L663 Just looked at my wiring diagram, and there are only 3 wires for both the 4 and 6 cylinder engined cars - Ground, Power and PCM signal.

@limyrob1383 Ай бұрын

Bath tub curve will really expose cheap Chinese parts with poor production quality control. Be interesting to look at these curves for Chinese vs Japan/Korea/Europe

@L663 Ай бұрын

Indeed that would be interesting.

@NigelsModellingBench Ай бұрын

Funny isnt it.. these manufacturers make all this electronic crap, purchased from the cheapest quoted supplier and low and behiold.. it breaks. My Defender 90 has never had a fault.. but it doesnt have any of this crap on it, or 22 ECU's.

@rafflesnh Ай бұрын

When your 90 was built, it didn't have to meet so many stringent emissions regs etc etc etc. Manufacturers also have to squeeze ever more power and fuel economy out of smaller engines, which can't be done via analogue tech. Then you have to run a business and make a product at the cheapest possible cost whilst delivering acceptable levels of performance/durability. If they could charge customers unlimited amounts of money, then I daresay they could devise some bullet proof internals to keep every one happy. Look at what happens in space tech, where critical component failures are by no means unheard of, and their budgets are a lot less constrained than MV manufacturers. But people are still willing to risk lives trying to push technological boundaries. In our case, thankfully it's only wallet destroying.... (mostly) ;-)

@moriwaki1105 Ай бұрын

Coil pack ?.... bring back the Dizzy 🥴

@L663 Ай бұрын

Not sure I want the distibutor cap back !

@moriwaki1105 Ай бұрын

They work good...if wrapped in a oily rag to keep off the damp 😊

@2_wheel_rob Ай бұрын

They put a hairdryer on the camera lens to dry the condensation!

@L663 Ай бұрын

They may well have ... lets see...

@jamble7k Ай бұрын

why no indication on the dash then? suppressed until warranty expires i reckon 😂

@keithpettican8480 Ай бұрын

It shuts off fuel after a certain number of mis-fires

@L663 Ай бұрын

That is actually so clever !

@madanto2394 Ай бұрын

A broken distribution cap!!

@L663 Ай бұрын

Old cars have coils too !

@RobinHarding-ep1ud Ай бұрын

God knows how many ÉCU s fitted to a defender …is it 84 ? And the useless piece of crap can’t tell you what the problem is ! How Landrover sell any vehicles is beyond comprehension .

@L663 Ай бұрын

To be fair it had detected that there was a misfire and it was cylinder 4.

@hughmarcus1 Ай бұрын

Robin, had it ever occurred to you that they literally sell thousands of them. A lot of those are to wealthy people (who by definition aren’t stupid) they can’t all go wrong.

@RobinHarding-ep1ud Ай бұрын

@ non of igenium engines arent worth a light , many ,many 2.0 litre engines are totally wasted after 30,000 miles . Lease deals is all that keeps Landrover alive . The 2.0 litre diesel is what finished Jaguar . Having owned a 5,600 cc Mercedes 1990 s build quality , never was taken apart , only regular services in an extensive file , drove like new burnt no oil in 20 years at the time of ownership .

@hughmarcus1 Ай бұрын

@ do you own a Land Rover Robin?

@RobinHarding-ep1ud Ай бұрын

@ twenty five years ago I did a bare chassis restoration of a 1953 series 1 , and used it for 15 years at weekends before selling it in first class order .Today’s vehicles are a pearled down ridiculously over complicated nightmare . This is done in the name of emissions mainly and it actually has a negative effect as so many vehicles are scrapped because they are poorly made and soon become uneconomical to repair . I used to drive 50,000 miles a year and never broke down down . Mk 2 Cavaliers 1.6 and 2.00 excellent totally reliable . Original 2 litre mondeo’s totally reliable drove several to 100,000 miles plus with only maybe a rear exhaust box and maybe a battery . Currently drive a Renegade 5 years from new , not one fault over 40,000 miles and a good £10/ 15,000 less to buy and drives superb . Friend in French Alps has a Land Rover discovery from new , has been a total disaster , worst reliability car he’s ever had , always in garage with fault lights , terrible timing chain issues and eats ball joints . Another friend bought a new Range Rover and in a year it was in garage for more time than on the road , it was got rid of and a Toyota Land Cruiser was bought , no probs in five years . For 16 years I had a Nissan Navara , 108,000 miles …….no ball joins , one exhaust , two batteries , original discs . Passed Mot before sale no advisories . New cost £ 18,500 new in 2005 . Only issue was oil pump o rings and big end bolts , which Nissan missed diagnosed for timing chain issues as some vehicles threw a piston . A racing mechanic diagnosed the problem which was low quality big end bolts and over torqued at factory . The original Range Rover was excellent , à galvanised frame would have made it invincible with an LS V8 . When I was repping the company ran SD1 rovers …..like tea pots always throwing head gaskets . The 2.3 and 2.6 were gutless wonders and the only cars I have driven that were so gutless you could not spin the wheels on getaway ….and … I was expert at that 40 years ago .

@andrewmason8844 Ай бұрын

The crazy thing is an Indian owned company buying there parts from china

@Cous1nJack Ай бұрын

It’s called globalisation.

@sanatandharma4435 Ай бұрын

I would not add any thing else to this computer on 4 wheels. It is bound to go wrong!

@tonyford7987 Ай бұрын

I know a Dave Cole…… service manager JLR 🤔

@L663 Ай бұрын

Are you saying he had insider information...

@tonyford7987 Ай бұрын

@ possibly🤣

@mvirdi2333 Ай бұрын

👌👌❤️❤️🙏🙏🇬🇧

@L663 Ай бұрын

Hi Mr Virdi !

@richardw7959 Ай бұрын

JIMNY!!!!!!!!!

@L663 Ай бұрын

Yes and George drove his Jimny to the Alps for a Ski trip earlier this year - not one problem on the whole trip !

@richardw7959 Ай бұрын

@@L663 I have one too (although I have never taken it as far as the Alps.. well done, George!) and they are truly glorious machines. Such a pity that Suzuki will no longer be selling them in the UK.