Our Long Forgotten Trunk Novels - Intentionally Blank Ep. 141

This week on Intentionally Blank, Brandon Sanderson and Dan Wells talk about the novels they left in their "trunk" that have never seen the light of day since they were published. Along with these fascinating tales, Dan talks about his dislike of Denver, and Brandon talks about the "industry" writers belong in.
Check out our previous episode of Intentionally Blank: • Hugos, Oscars, and Tur...
Listen to Intentionally Blank wherever podcasts are available.
Sound engineering by Daniel Thompson
(0:00) - Dans Shameless Self Promotion
(0:40) - What "Industry" writers work in
(2:20) - Dan's Weekly Food Heist
(5:19) - Denver Slander
(8:40) - Trunk Novel Talk
(10:15) - Dans one published Trunk Novel
(11:04) - Brandon's First Trunk Novel
(13:52) - Dan's First Novel
(15:36) - Dans Third Novel
(19:10) - Brandon's Second Novel
(21:10) - Brandon's Fourth Novel
(22:27) - Mistborn Prime
(23:29) - Smaller Stake Stories
(24:33) - Dans Fifth Novel
(27:00) - Brandon's Division of Trunk Novels
(28:31) - POSSIBLY Revising older Brandon Novels
(31:49) - Dan Forgets an Entire Book He Wrote
(33:00) - The Remaining Brandon Trunk Novels
(33:42) - Dan Finds his 4th novel
(34:42) - Closing Thoughts

[@barlow949]

Dan saying "Denver can...ˢᵘᶜᵏ ᶦᵗ" like B-Money was going to make him go to the principle's office sent me

[@Djbbarks]

Dude…… B-money!! A legend. I saw him recently in downtown Provo

[@TomIsGrateful]

No "How's that Ben?" Where is Ben? What have you done with Ben??? BEN!!!

[@ItsAvarus]

I rushed to the comments for this

[@SpencerTwiddy]

Missed opportunity to get a “huzzah Ben” smh

[@benolsen3904]

Here I sit, forgotten and alone.

[@ItsAvarus]

@benolsen3904 it's okay none of us have forgotten you!

[@archierowe3893]

@@benolsen3904we always remember you.

[@daem0nfaust]

"Stop flirting with horror and just make out with it" As with writing, so with food heists.

[@jaime6400]

"That's when I was like 'stop flirting with horror and just make out with it." That was hilarious. This was a fascinating conversation!

[@oliveoil2x]

I enjoyed the irrational Denver hatred segment. Good stuff. Always nice when Dan won’t be held back.

[@KK-ef1ow]

No how's that Ben? How dare you besmirch his honor!

[@ernesttokes62]

Seriously.

[@dylanmeldrum6444]

I'm stunned!

[@amyofhearthridge]

I love how Mr. Sanderson is always thinking like a villain. 😂

[@ed01987]

The podcast isn't over yet... They didn't ask Ben!

[@randomdude4505]

Dan, "Denver is the worst city on earth!" Me remembering my time in the Fertile Crescent, "Dan has clearly never been to the Middle East."

[@yannispapoulis7550]

I think the 20+ generations of divinity would work as a great tabletop campaign. PCs realize they need to find the original divinity that ran the show

[@DisneyBatchman]

Driving home from Denver to Omaha, after dropping off a friend who decided to move there for a time, on the trip home was going through one of the worst storms I've ever personally experienced. There were full WALLS of tumbleweeds drifting across the highway, and the big rig I was allowing to break the wind for me was traveling at 10 MPH on the FREEWAY.

[@eluna_mae]

Night of Blacker Darkness and Alcatraz vs the Evil Librarians are BY FAR my two favorite Dan and Brandon works. Someone please tell me what's wrong with me. I was thrilled to find out they are canonically in the same universe.😅

[@vio6815]

Night of blacker darkness is soooo good. One of my reading highlights from last year, I loved it so much

[@ryanb3665]

Frugal Wizard is in that same ‘verse as well!

[@brightwatcher3757]

I LOVE Night of Blacker Darkness!!!😍

[@LieutenantLukas343]

Always fun to listen to Dan and Brandon reflect on their development as writers-thanks for giving me something to enjoy every Wednesday! Personally, I think the twenty generations of weakened god-ness has potential! Not sure if that opinion is worth anything since I have never written a story, though. Now on to the important topic… Denver! After working tirelessly to cultivate a podcast persona of being entirely unpredictable when it comes to likes and dislikes, Dan’s allowed to hate on whatever Dan wants to hate on. And if you are used to Utah, I think I can kind of see that angle. But as someone who grew up in the Midwest before moving to Denver as an adult, I could not resonate more with Brandon on this! In my limited experience, it is hands-down simply so much better to be there than Chicago, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Atlanta, or Dallas. Even if it is not in the mountains, seeing them and being in driving distance of decent hikes was a life-changer for me! That said, I’ll throw Dan one more bone and say that I wouldn’t prefer to live in Aurora if I could afford to live west or south instead-and I felt that way even before I heard about this food heist misdemeanor, oh my!

[@melvinlinderoth7108]

Am I going insane haven’t they done an episode exactly like this already talking about a lot of the same novels? It was a live show I think

[@wemarti]

It was EP. 79

[@n88466]

Yeah they basically covered nothing new in this episode except rearranging the order of some of the books

[@the13thsilver]

I really enjoyed the whitesand graphic novels. The art was great, and the world and the story was so interesting, but now I know why I was waiting for a book 4 this entire time. I kept checking for years to see if there was a white sand book 4 before i found out that was the ending.

[@WolfheartFPS]

Just bought Mistborn the other day! Looking forward to the read & watching some more educational vids on the channel.

[@davidsabotta6528]

Clear your calendar, because that book is so well paced you won't want to do anything else until you finish it. 10/10 book

[@FragmentedTV]

oh hey! :D Mistborn is a great entry to the Cosmere, but the crown jewelry is the Stormlight Archive

[@hannahalt6171]

As someone who lives in the Denver metro area, I agree with Dan. Especially about how Denver isn’t actually close to the mountains. You’re an hour and a half to seven hour drive (depending on traffic) from any interesting mountains in Denver

[@dylanmeldrum6444]

Is everything okay with Ben? I feel like you guys should probably check in with him. I'm shook.

[@DadBodSwagGod]

A valiant showing

[@One_Bar]

We got so used to asking “HOW’S that, Ben?” that we never considered to ask “How IS that Ben?”

[@thymoral]

Dan being annoyed at Denver not having mountains but also attributing the suburbs to Denver is the hypocrisy I am here for. Denver's nicknames are Mile High City and Queen City of the PLAINS. It is Mile High City because it is literally a Mile High not because it is in the mountains. (Edit: I like Denver and I like Dan and his contrarian opinions)

[@Patrick-zj4qz]

Born in Aurora. The argument to avoid it stands.

[@ThompsonBrosStudios]

He's right though about the mountains, I spent several years there and people are OBSESSED with telling others about the mountains that are not at all close. Maybe it's a Utah thing, but pretty much every city in Utah is far closer to mountains than Denver. And as someone who grew up in California, I can confirm driving in both Denver and any major city in California is about the same type of horrible, lots of traffic, insanely aggressive drivers, etc. (though admittedly it's been a few years since I've been back in Cali, so it might have gotten worse.)

[@roovodi]

Dan Wells could be a stand-up comedian if he wanted to.

[@grantstratton2239]

I'm sensing something along the lines of a US cities tier list in this channel's future... For the sake of entertainment, as a Tucsonan, I give you permission beforehand to roast Tucson, Arizona... assuming that's ever been a city important enough for either of you to visit.

[@Nyponblomma]

In regards to Dan’s fifth novel, it sounds a lot like the Finishing School series by Gail Carriger. (It starts with “Etiquette & Espionage”. )

[@littleemilineannie]

The Legend of the Crag sounds hilarious and I desperately want to read it

[@jennifernoble6702]

Same! Would prob make a great short story

[@splintershield]

Best ending of IB ever. Huzzah to you both, gentlemen. 😎

[@bryceharriet9209]

Dan! I live in Denver!

[@jammersanimovieblog]

I listened to this in downtown Denver.

[@masonwheeler6536]

The notion that trunk novels are books you wrote "before you got good" rests on a massive unspoken assumption that's clearly not true in the general case and may or may not be true in any individual case: that your first good novel actually got published.

[@jonathanayuso652]

Ben has no way of knowiing how that was

[@Morfeusm]

Press F to pay respects to Ben

[@benolsen3904]

F

[@pearanerd]

Stop flirting with horror and just make out with it. -- Dan Wells. This needs to be on a t-shirt.

[@DisneyBatchman]

I remember enjoying Aether of Night and Rithmatist back when they were at least trunk novel-ish (thank you ... I still greatly enjoyed them) ... now I have to ask, where do I find Dragonsteel?

[@cambabamba4159]

MY DEBT TO YOU IS PAID, MISTER WELLS

[@jonathankoan]

I would categorize you guys as working in the publishing industry.

[@cregkly5444]

A Night of Blacker Darkness is brilliant. Get the audio book, you won't be disappointed.

[@eluna_mae]

Agreed. The narrator is amazing.

[@Eval999]

NO HOWS THAT BEN?

[@ZacChilds]

I'm confused. Did Ben change his name to Huzzah?

[@porterwayman8643]

Week 13 of persistently asking for an Intentionally Blank Episode on Marching Band!

[@Kritigri]

The thing I find depressing about publishers of the time asking for people who can write like GRRM is, nobody was asking for writing like GRRM when he sold A Game of Thrones. I know it's their job to find what makes money, but that side of publishing will always feel self-defeating in my opinion.

[@robbybevard8034]

Yeah well, every single fantasy series since it aired on tv has had to live in its shadow. Including Wheel of Time and apparently the Last Airbender live action? They all need to be "more like GoT" which is just dumb.

[@gryphonelliott2087]

I love Blacker Darkness so god damn much

[@paralicular3927]

For the first time, i wonder what Ben thinks about this episode.

[@eknapp49]

I go to Seattle to drive and inoculate myself against thinking my home city has bad traffic.

[@rad4924]

I feel about Seattle the way that Dan feels about Denver.

[@finchharper4647]

When Dan goes to Heaven, publish all his Trunk Novels. We will hear him screaming from Heaven NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo

[@avsambart]

"Stop flirting with horror and just make out with it" on a t-shirt asap!!

[@kath4240]

Several times this episode, the lamp behind Dan lined up with his head to make me this he was wearing a yarmulke

[@Florkl]

Denver is the Mile High city because it’s at such a low elevation compared to other Colorado cities (of the 273 municipalities in Colorado, Denver is ranks 170th in altitude)

[@Treggify]

As someone from Denver… yeah everything outside of Denver is better.

[@UvaroviteKing]

Dan shitting on my amazing/beautiful hometown 😂

[@zenthepoet.]

Adoooonalsium

[@daem0nfaust]

and shards thereof

[@Shinray1kuo]

But how was it, Ben?

[@stoicsimian]

Portland is nice. We also have Powell's 😀

[@EricFlyr]

...is Ben OK??

[@lorddenithal]

I mean, in one of Brandon's autio books, there's a section that talks about Brandon needing to take people from their regular life and threaten the fabric of the universe.

[@Florkl]

I hadn’t heard about Trunk Books. I always figured when an author’s quality plummets it was because they had hit a level of popularity where their ego and clout lead them to ignore advice.

[@andythepanhead]

As an Arizonanan who moved to Denver I'm curious to know Dan's impression of the great suburban sprawl that is phoenix and the legally distinct but functionally indifferent cities surrounding it.

[@jameslafollette7932]

As a Californian going to school in Phoenix, I'd also like to know. In my (albeit limited) experience of Phoenix, the great suburban sprawl never ends and downtown is very small comparatively. It takes me like an hour to drive from one end to the other, even without traffic. I also don't even know what is Phoenix and what isn't because Scottsdale, Glendale, Tempe, Peoria, and etc all blend into each other. There is no distinction. I also think Phoenix (or at least the greater Phoenix area) is the largest metropolitan area in the US in terms of square miles.

[@andythepanhead]

@@jameslafollette7932 very close. depending on how you draw the line. A quick google source says the riverside/san Bernardino/Ontario is almost double and is the largest in the US. for help navigating i recommend using the highways as borders/reverence points rather than "city lines" and learning which N/S and E/W streets are the same line but with different names in the neighboring city. and you're right about downtown. most of the "down towns in AZ vastly small in comparison to their sprawl.

[@becky9737]

Ahh! Come to Portland! ... Actually wait, don't do that. We're sketchy now😔

[@paulbrooks4395]

I bought the Lost Metal at the old train station building book store in Denver. Nice book stores. The person working behind the counter also liked Brandon's books. I can see why Dan hates it.

[@alexspeedwagon3701]

Dan said Denver deserved it like there’s some sort of Utah/Colorado rivalry going on

[@theoriginalkimerli]

16:31 I want this novel!

[@Adam_okaay]

I drove from San Diego to NY and the biggest disappointment was Denver. Its literally the city of the people who didnt want to go over the big mountains.

[@ambivvvvvvvvvalence]

Bands of morning signing? There a new leatherbound coming out?

[@MissShembre]

I'd read a "Victorian Bat Girl" story!!!

[@keeganmet257]

I want to read Victorian Batgirl!

[@Scarodactyl]

Where does the white sand audiobook fit into this?

[@saintjimmy456]

Are these trunk novels first drafts that were given up on and put in a drawer? Or were they multiple drafts, cleaned up and ready to see an editor? I could shelve a first draft, I don't think I could "fully finish" a book then just store it.

[@brooklynkelsey703]

Interesting! I feel like I'd be the opposite-- I'd rather finish a novel before storing it away.

[@Justin-xq3ip]

Some of them are available for us readers! Aether of Night, White Sand Prose, Mistborn Prime, Way of Kings Prime, the unfinished Mythwalker. Besides Way of Kings Prime which has been cleaned up and turned into a formal novel, the rest are available as word documents or single chapters posted to Brandons website. So there are varying levels of completeness on these trunked novels, but Brandon has said that Mythwalker is the only novel that he ever actually gave up on and never finished. The rest are essentially complete but unrefined novels, Brandon just never thought were good enough to publish

[@lamborn3D]

Star's End sounds similar to the second part of Battlefield Earth.

[@thatmykahguy]

MY DEBT TO YOU IS PAID MR. WELLS

[@TheLordofMetroids]

Book melting into a table isn't standard, but books lighting on fire when you open them is pure Warhammer Chaos. See: current Dark Apostle mini holding up a burning book.

[@unhelpfulheap9066]

Dan with the wild parallel thinking of American Gods.

[@christopherclouser340]

Hate driving in Denver and the airport is the worst in America.

[@brandalfthegrand]

"Denver can suck it" LOL

[@KyleOfTheNorth]

I always enjoy when people irrationally hate places or things.

[@yakattack93]

Whatever happened to the food heist and bad story idea brackets? I remember it getting down to the final two but that's it. Did I miss the episode where the winners was announced? Plus, I never saw the t-shirts and I was looking forward to that.

[@robbybevard8034]

The King Owns all Potatoes won food heists, and Titanic 2 Sink Harder won bad story ideas. There was then a gap for a few months, as they held off on having those two face off until Dragoncon... I'm actually not sure which won it all but it doesn't really matter since both are supposed to get shirts. They haven't announced any shirts yet, probably because the con was right before the holidays and it takes time to design stuff.

[@yakattack93]

@@robbybevard8034 Yo thank you!!

[@prestonmichael7843]

How’s that been

[@valeskaarnesen1295]

Brandon saying Portland is easy to drive in made me laugh! Anyone who lives near Portland has the opposite opinion.

[@danielbueche5686]

I think anything over 300 dollars is a felony. Also haven't been to Denver but I have gone camping and driven through Colorado. Two things on my list of things I wish to do and see before I die will bring me to Denver. First is Red Rock Amphitheater I've been wanting to visit since I first learned of it. Then I want to see Doc Holiday's grave

[@byaustingragg]

Dan is right. Driving Denver sucks. - a KC area person.

[@leemelton7828]

Dan steadfastly sticking to his irrational, nonsensical pet-peeves while being presented with ample evidence to the contrary is a mood.

[@dutyfreeadventures5924]

I absolutely love this.

[@SirKn1ght47]

You guys are podcasters now, that’s basically in the media category, right? XD

[@kirkwagner461]

Brisket Bandit?

[@egymano5447]

How's that Ben?

[@bob2335]

Hey Brandon. I’m a teen author. 17yrs. I’ve written one book and I’m 50k words into my second one. Do you have any advice for someone working to launch a career?

[@robbybevard8034]

They've actually done quite a few videos about their early days, hunt through the podcast playlist and check anything that looks applicable. Also their "Writing Excuses" podcast. They do note that their experience is 20 years old and so kind of out of date. And largely boils down to "get an agent".

[@bob2335]

Okay thank you@@robbybevard8034

[@Duiker36]

The last time I watched his Creative Writing lectures, the business advice was still, "get an agent". But it's been several years since I watched those.

[@brianlinden3042]

Denver is also the last dinosaur.

[@ambbb4691]

Brandon is tripping, Miami is dope.

[@thepocketboy]

I live 5 blocks from aurora

[@corinnedrollette6107]

I want Victorian Batgirl.

[@nindzafa]

09:35 We can read dragonsteel prime? How?

[@robbybevard8034]

It's up on the BrandonSanderson website, but its only a handful of chapters in the middle, the Bridge Four stuff that largely got repurposed into Way of Kings. None of the other material that might actuall get used someday, so its not like reading a full book.

[@finchharper4647]

DARK ONE Graphic Novel?

[@poolshark121]

Yall need to go to Taos New Mexico but shhhh

[@hiattech]

I am a stick

[@julystrauss]

I am a stick too

[@ThaneSton]

I've only been to Denver twice, hated it. I don't know why, and don't care. Denver doesn't want me, I don't want it, I don't see the problem. This is also the first time I have ever agreed with Dan.

[@brooklynkelsey703]

Dan: "Nobody in Denver knows how to drive." ......Nobody anywhere knows how to drive 😄

[@adamjones3672]

Lived in Colorado for a while, I too hate Denver. Dan your hatred is not irrational. Other than excellent Mexican food, it has nothing.

[@stevenwojtysiak6392]

Denver is not great, if you are a truck driver and delivering there. but otherwise it's not bad.

[@jaspermooren5883]

Denver is terrible to drive in. But so is everywhere else in the US, so yeah, that's nothing against Denver specifically.

[@thispaulrules]

I agree. Denver is the worst.

[@bixmcgoo5355]

denver's pretty ass, dan's got a point

[@SubFlow22]

Rewrite Rhythms of Bore! Make Stormlight Great Again!

[@ambivvvvvvvvvalence]

Why you want him to rewrite the second-best book in the series?

[@bronwynecg]

How many more of these things does Sanderson have to do? Feels like it’ll never end… Side note: I wonder if he’s had nightmares about all this signing he’s had to do? 🤔🫣☺️

[@ajbXYZcool]

If he runs out of stuff to sign then that means we won't have any more Intentionally Blank.

[@robbybevard8034]

There's always a different upcoming book to sign. He's not *always* signing for the same thing. It is, surprisingly, one of the more effective uses of his time because people go crazy for signed copies and order/spend more readily. Plus the podcast is constant exposure and interaction with the fans.