Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster Merger Trial - Ep. 64 of Intentionally Blank

Brandon Sanderson and Dan Wells talk about the Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster merger trial, and Brandon's involvement in the dangers of self-publishing.
/ sanderson
Can be listened to almost everywhere podcasts can be found.
Produced by Adam Horne
Sound engineering and editing by Daniel Thompson

[@voidsabre_]

My problem with the "Brandon is taking money away from other authors" argument is that it just has no basis in reality. Brandon HELPED these people by inviting millions to buy into the platform. I know I'd never backed publishing kickstarters before Brandon's, and now I've backed five

[@somerandomguy1003]

Agreed....free market captilism is a wonderful thing. Just because you make a buck doesn't mean that you prevented someone else from making money. His book tour story just shows you how having a good product and a little bit of Hussle can go a long way. Not to mention how powerful word of mouth advertising is.

[@rmsgrey]

Technically, anyone who spent $10 on a Brandon Sanderson novel was unable to spend that same money on anything else, and some portion of those people would have spent that money on another author instead (rather than on food or a month's subscription to a streaming service or saving up for a house or whatever else they might spend money on). Since the total amount of money any given person has available to spend is fixed, any money they spend on anything takes money away from everything else they (would) spend money on. On the other hand, at that point, the only sane response is "so what?" Supposing Brandon didn't get those $10, then some other author (or whatever else) would be the one taking money away from other authors, so if it's a bad thing to be the person who gets that $10 (less taxes and other fees), then it's a bad thing to sell anything, and no-one should be allowed to make any money...

[@somerandomguy1003]

@@rmsgrey yes once I give Brandon 10 dollars for his book the money is now his and I can not use that exact same 10 dollars to buy a book from another author. However where I disagree is with the total amount of money being a fixed number. I can always exchange my labor for another 10 dollars and use it to support different author or...... buy a taco. Either way I think we both arrive at the same conclusion so kudos lol

[@rmsgrey]

@@somerandomguy1003 Okay, granted, there is a limited ability to exchange free time or personal property for money, so you can either regard someone's (monetary) wealth as fixed, or extend the concept of wealth to cover free-time and personal property, so that $10 you gave Brandon could instead have been "spent" working fewer hours, or not selling things on eBay, or otherwise gaining less money. And, of course, there's the question of what Brandon then does with the $10 once you give it to him - money circulates and that $10 could end up being passed around dozens of authors before it gets stuck in a bank account or otherwise removed from circulation for a significant period...

[@jacobmoeller5345]

@@rmsgrey Your point is valid. There are some people that don't by other authors' books because they buy Brandon's. If I get a Barnes and Noble gift card that's how much I'm going to spend so it is definitely one book or the other. However, if it wasn't for Mistborn I wouldn't be nearly as into books as I am, and I never would have read from the fantasy genre. I now buy many books from other authors. In that way, Brandon grew the market by making me a book-buyer. And that money I spent on his books came from my other disposable income, not from my book funds. Also, Cosmere = awesome :)

[@christopherclouser340]

As a writer, the threat to publishing from the self-published authors is so small compared to the advantages that traditional publishers have in the business. They have a near stranglehold on what gets into book stores across the country, they have the advantages of large economies of scale, but they view the customers as numbers only. The real threat to the publishing industry is the control Amazon has over the market, including e-books and audio books. If the publishers were really concerned about threats they would figure out a way to circumvent the control Amazon has on the market.

[@angelaspears4457]

Agreed.

[@dahuterschuter]

The only way for them to do that is to offer self-publishing service as well.

[@booludlow9348]

I always call this the “Bran and Dandon” show in my head, despite that being wrong for so many reasons, and I can’t figure out why.

[@BlakeStackman]

Or could be, The Bran and Dan show - or. The Bran-Dan Show 🤔 Haha

[@mystry4022]

The BranDan Danbrandan show.

[@nathanharmon8971]

I know what you mean. My wife and I always call Brandon “Brando Sando.” I’m terrified that if I ever meet him it will slip out.

[@AikenFrost]

The "why" is probably because it's extremely funny! Hahaha

[@xintrosi6829]

We call it BranDan SanderWells. It's our one-year-old's favorite youtube show!

[@CassiusDrake]

I discovered Will Wight because of his response video to your Kickstarter video, and your subsequent response, and now I’ve purchased and read all of his books, something I probably wouldn’t have done otherwise. So your actions definitely helped at least one other author!

[@BeingtheBard]

Haha same actually

[@matthewmcewan5341]

I love his books. It was treat watching the video as a fan of both authors. Cradle is my favorite. Try out the audiobooks of both authors. each author uses some of my favorite narrators.

[@akashbhardwaj6495]

Same

[@suepedie1]

Gotta love a good narrator!

[@RobertKelford]

Loss of competition is never a good thing. Time to really worry is when you get to duopoly status - by then it's often too late. I also now need to seal a shrimp in epoxy resin and secure it inside a cage of lasers.

[@887frodo]

I think a good rule of thumb is to default to anti-monopolization. I don’t want to focus only on “fewer options for writers and readers”, because they have made it clear that the merger would PERHAPS allow for more money to end up in the hands of the writers they decide to take on, I also want people to understand that these behemoths make it incredibly hard for small publishing companies (the ones that take on books by marginalized authors and books that challenge literary norms social barriers) to stay afloat. A lot of people in the comments are aware of Amazon’s control over the book market, but monopolizing the publishing industry is not gonna end Amazon’s monopoly on book sales. These are two ends of a market that, although related, don’t stand in direct opposition to each other AND would sooner cooperate to control the industry than to help us (readers, and writers alike). This merger will open the doors to even more monstrous things and we need to put a stop to this capitalist unsupervision.

[@hcstubbs3290]

It's also worse for readers as well. The few publishers that exist decide what people read. If there's less publishers, the diversity of opinions is narrowed to the opinions of the few publishing houses that exist. If it falls down to one publisher, that one publisher basically entirely controls what we read. Same thing with any media we consume. Monopolies should belong in dystopias, not the real world. Competition is good and healthy for everyone. It promotes creativity and positive change. Take away that competition and suddenly our entertainment starts to lose all the beautiful shades between black and white thinking.

[@BoMwarriorVlog]

A monopoly is anti-capitalist. Competition amongst multiple business helps out the consumer and the companies, and that is capitalism.

[@charles3840]

@@BoMwarriorVlog I would argue it's basically the goal of capitalism. I would say it's anti- free-market. Which is what I think Americans and the west actually values, but the two things have been conflated. Capitalism only benefits business owners. A free market can only exist with proper regulation and a government answerable to the people (not corporate interests).

[@AllCommonError]

It's crazy to me how many intelligent people misunderstand the value of capitalism. True FREE and voluntary exchange. The real danger of monopoly is the one government controlled. Giants rise and fall. Stop letting government officials give out special privileges, and by consequence having corporations spend so much in lobbying, and the only people who would stay on top would be the ones offering the superior product and service. Envying people moving up the ladder blinds you to just as many people are moving down it. There's a reason they're trying to merge, and that's because they can't survive against Amazon. It's to save themselves or to delay drowning. Time will tell. In the meantime, I cheer on the independent creators who are learning to promote themselves on these platforms, and cut the traditional guys out all together.

[@BoMwarriorVlog]

@@AllCommonError I think your educated & well worded comment is being shadow-banned by KZbin. 😒

[@CraigLoos]

Long story short, the unfairly directed hate towards Brandon's Kickstarter was the reason I backed the Kickstarter.

[@pablodelrio8082]

The way brandon smiles every time he mentions beating traditional publishing at something is pure gold

[@h.i.m.3200]

Wow, I didn't think you'd actually talk about this beyond what you said in your live. Excited(?) to hear your discussion of what's been happening.

[@brentclouse7791]

Brandon's comment about how some New Yorkers have an inaccurate perception of the rest of US geography is so true. In my experience it was flipped: I'm from Indiana but spent a semester in Los Angeles for a film program in 2010, and most everyone I met thought middle America was, like, uninhabited until you reached Chicago...which is probably only a day's drive away, right? I'm convinced that until you drive through Kansas, Colorado, and Utah you don't fully appreciate the sheer size of the US. Coincidentally, I discovered Brandon's work while in LA because my internship tasked me with reading The Way of Kings to see if they wanted to option for the film rights (this was nearly 12 years ago, and the producers didn't option for it, so I think I can share this, hah). I wasn't even a fantasy reader at the time, but that quickly changed. I even read TWoK during my lunch breaks and outside of work hours. :)

[@starsun6363]

And nebraska. Nebraska's a beast.

[@herosmith5662]

@@starsun6363 There's literally a song about Nebraska only being a highway. lol

[@starsun6363]

@@herosmith5662 Ooof.

[@jacobmoeller5345]

I don't think it is a snobbery thing, but rather that it is hard to comprehend how big the western states are! I always forget that just because 2 places are in California or in Texas doesn't mean they are at all close to each other. Although, that's not an excuse for the publicist since she didn't even bother to look up how close he was to the locations.

[@annmoore321]

If there was a platform like Amazon, I would switch to that in a heartbeat. There are a lot of things Amazon has been doing that I don’t like.

[@Sam-vk8xd]

There never will be. Amazon owns most of the internet too, web-hosting and whatnot.

[@citizensguard3433]

Hearing Brandon say "I'm not the threat" feels like the most nerdy version of the Villain Who Turns Out To Be Not The Villain Because There Is A Bigger Villain Out There Still character doing his reveal monologue. I can imagine walking into a ruined tower in skyrim and hearing a dark elf scribe saying something similar 😄

[@obviousalias132]

So Brandon is the Hrathen or the Lord Ruler to Amazon's Dilaf or Ruin?

[@jordanneal576]

I really hope the book landscape doesn't end up like the current movie/TV landscape, where exclusivity is the primary driver of competition. What I'd like to see is something more like Spotify vs KZbin Music, where they both essentially have the same library, and they're just competing at providing a better service. The current state of video streaming cannot be long for this world, because people will quickly get tired of paying for five different services to watch what they want to watch and will pirate instead.

[@devinkipp4344]

I think you over estimate people's willingness to pirate. You are right people will get tired of paying all the subs but don't think they will pirate as an alternative. As far as book landscape becoming like TV I doubt it mainly because of the difference in price to produce each product.

[@brianstark4]

I think people getting frustrated and cancelling altogether is more likely than pirating. Though what happened to Game of Thrones when it suddenly went exclusive could make for a good counter argument. Either way, I definitely agree competing on exclusives is not going to work forever.

[@r1ckmick]

A lot of big bands fought against streaming yet it has since enabled more musicians to reach success than it has ever hurt a major label, one hundred fold. As a listener, it has created a renaissance of music like nothing the world has ever seen. If this same phenomenon can happen for writing than it absolutely should.

[@lukethompson7083]

Has Dan ever talked about the Roofman during food heists? That's quite the story. Food heists, prison escapes, secretly living in the walls of Toys 'R' Us. It's got it all.

[@briancaster2876]

I would love to see a casual criminalist episode on that now, it sounds awesome!

[@robbybevard8034]

I don't think he has, you should send in a copy of that story!

[@angelaspears4457]

Would totally love to hear more of it!

[@robsright4256]

Everytime I drag my feet when it comes to writing. All I need is a little Brando Sando pep talk about self publishing. You will live on as a major turning point in the timeline of the publishing industry. You are an inspiration for the generations to come. On behalf of my descendents, I thank you sir.

[@NmDPlm31]

I self-pubbed my first fantasy novel via Amazon just a couple months ago, and that was after looking all over and talking with other people and finding that it was really the easiest and best paying game in town. I also paid in for Brandon’s kickstarter because he’s a great storyteller and I’ve been proud to support him from his beginning days. An unknown like me could never pull off a kickstarter like that. I don’t know anyone else who can, at this point. That said, I don’t begrudge Brandon one thin dime of what he’s accomplished here. I don’t think he’s stealing readers or drying up the pool of money available. I don’t think I lost readers because he sold so well. I’m a little fish in a big pond at this stage. And that’s okay. Some good info here from Brandon, and I agree, it would be nice if there were other options for self-publishing.

[@Trintron46]

After working for Amazon for over two years, my boyfriend said it was clear that they would collapse as a shipping business within the next decade if they don't change direction. The employee turnover rate is so high that Amazon may run out of new people to hire before 2025. They will bring themselves down.

[@cbpd89]

I believe it! They're so ridiculous with the way they treat warehouse workers, it's like they're trying to advertise for the benefits of unionizing.

[@gordo6908]

it's ok, they have the infrastructure to ship new ones in

[@devinkipp4344]

You know I never thought of that but yes sounds right. As far as unionizing goes it won't happen until after they are forced to change their policies towards employees. Mainly because no one sticks around long enough to unionize because no one wants to and even if they did the legal department at Amazon is ready.

[@RadioactiveWeka]

Love how happy Brandon seems when he's called a threat

[@arlissbunny]

I attended a writers conference the week after your kickstarter closed. There was a big 5 senior editor on a panel. In the question session I asked what the industry was saying about your kickstarter. They had no idea what I was talking about. I suggested they use a little thing the kids call “Google” to find out. I own a manufacturing company that ships all over the world. Agility is everything but to be agile you do have to be paying attention. Trad pub is not paying attention. They still think audio books are optional not only for their front list but for all the backlist still in print. I’m never surprised when I see a publisher go down in flames. It’s not rocket science people!

[@quinn_wbfm]

Hey! It's the guy from that Gamescom trailer 😄Moonbreaker looks so great - also I'm loving how specific the title is and yet I dont't have _any_ idea what the discussion will be about... I'm definitely out of the loop on this one (so far)

[@chrisrussell1106]

Dan: "I get paid in Coke." Archer: "Are we not doing phrasing anymore?" Great and informative podcast!

[@samhaleyeah]

How long before it's just the Big One publishing generic literature via machine learning algorithms?

[@mfmorag1]

Driving 12 hours (a lot of it through the desert) and back to go to his first book signing, is peak Sanderson.

[@baalakrishnana.m4190]

For some reason, I thought "Simon the Random Penguin " was so funny that I paused the video and laughed for a full 5 minutes

[@Patrick-rl1ku]

I was not a reader in any way shape or form. I was pushed to start Wheel of Time and fell in love. As a result, I jumped on the Sanderson train and have since read almost everything Brandon has written. This has sparked a love of fantasy books and I have now read and supported a slew of other similar authors because of what the Brandon Sanderson group has created. In other words, I'm direct evidence of 1 successful author, brining me to a mindset to also support other similar authors.

[@alibisbystorytellers]

In my uneducated opinion, it seems like if the traditional industry is so fragile that it is able to be threated that greatly by a single author spreading into other content delivery methods, then that seems like a problem with the industry, not a fault or transgression of the author.

[@jaimeortiz7199]

This was a great episode! And Brandon's first signing anecdote was hilarious.

[@beLIEver31415]

Great chat! I completely agree with the "well... what am I supposed to do?" As a BS superfan I will buy anything you create. I can't say there are many other auto-buy authors on my list but I do try to make sure I still pick up plenty of other authors, genres, demographics, indie, etc throughout the year regardless but I acknowledge that is from a place of privilege where I am fortunate I don't have to choose in most cases due to financial constraints. I don't know how to express this to "big publishing" but it does make me irritated the stance some have chosen that is particularly against you and what you are doing. I am eternally grateful for the way you go about the profession of being an author and all the effort, creativity, and interaction you put in so regularly.

[@laurelkeeper]

Nice profile picture. It's been a while since I've seen that symbol around.

[@beLIEver31415]

@@laurelkeeper :) The world is quiet here :)

[@laurelkeeper]

@@beLIEver31415 that brings me back... time for a reread, I think.

[@csolorio88]

I really love this business-centered discussions. They're pretty academic and sometimes, we need to have some real world feedback from our favorite fictional world creators.

[@angelaspears4457]

It was a great look at what's happening now and turning the prism to see it from the traditionally published side, the indie side, and even what the big publishing houses vs. Amazon are thinking and facing.

[@CemKumral]

Man, I love Brandon, his stories about selling his books are very inspiring, no matter your field. Also, the way he talked about the bootstrapped booktour he arranged sounds like what comics do.

[@lifesabattle8823]

You're the man Brando Sando. Your commentary is always so thoughtful and insightful, and I love that you lead with compassion. I know that this mostly will just flutter through the Aether, but I just wanted to spread a little bit of the positivity you give us all right back to you. Keep on following your heart, and Journey before Destination, my friend. Thanks for being an inspiring light in the world, and never stop writing.

[@angelaspears4457]

@Brandon : There is a logical fallacy in saying that your books are taking up too much market share. Someone who likes a specific author likes that author. They may not be a fan of an entire genre. Not publishing a book doesn't mean people will buy a different book. The consumer may opt for anything from a movie to groceries in its place. Each author has to overcome inertia. That people are reading your books means that people are still interested in books. That is good news. You could also suggest authors or books on your talk shows and sites to give further boosts to those trying to build engagement. Wise use of your powers is a better answer than to stop doing what you love and worked hard to hone your skills to do. I never hear these arguments made of other professions.

[@bruh-zy1dp]

The only reason ik there are kickstarters for novels is because of Brandon's Kickstarter. Brandon is creating awareness for novel Kickstarter

[@DylanMcClung]

We need a food heist prison escape book by Dan and Brandon! With all the past heister's from the podcast using their specific skills to break out.

[@suepedie1]

Brandon's kickstarter was a success because we already know what we're getting! We have very high expectations because we know him and the quality of what he puts out.

[@cbpd89]

I love the signing stories. 😆 They say in the US 100 years is a long time and in Europe 100 miles is a long distance!

[@Adam_okaay]

Pretty sure my neighbors are starting to wonder why I sing-shout "FOOOOD HEIIIIST!" Every Wednesday.

[@colin1818]

4:43 "I don't think any of us really grokked that it would turn into indie publishing..." Wow, nice Stranger in a Strange Land reference there.

[@joeybelasco]

Every physical book I have ever ordered from Amazon came in a box that was too big with no packing, each and every one had jammed corners and damaged sleeves. Including my Warbreaker 👀. They're not obligated to give a shit because they have zero competition.

[@anguishedcarpet]

Get refunds, I do that every time my orders are damaged and have never had an issue with them recognizing the damage and paying

[@dorkyface]

Brandon, you have nothing to apologize for, for being who you are and doing what you love and begin successful at it. People who don't think you deserve your success because of your ethnicity / faith / skin color are themselves the bigots they claim to be fighting against.

[@lisaroberts9892]

What a great chat! I love it. Each week I can't wait to see it! Please continue this for ever! Please discuss house of dragon! I hope Brandon and Dan are coming to Germany some day! I would love to see them in person! Can't wait for w&w4

[@uptown3636]

I'm increasingly frustrated that there's not a Food Heists book by Dan Wells available in bookshops right now. The world needs this book!

[@megansbooknook519]

You definitely helped rise other author ships! Through the Kickstarter I found and backed 4 other authors and now I know about it as a publishing platform.

[@michaelburke4048]

Man, look at the way Brandon's arm moves of its own accord. I'm not sure I've ever seen him when he wasn't signing his name (Insert "Novel Writing, Live from Dorset" reference). I'm thinking of having a blank piece of paper framed because it's almost more exclusive at this point than a Brandon Sanderson autograph. :D ::Later that night, Brandon breaks into Mike's house and signs every blank surface.::

[@piccolo113]

20:40 There's actually a pretty cool solution to having games spread across multiple storefronts! GOG Galaxy has a page where you can enter your login info from other storefronts. Doing so will make GOG Galaxy's game Library populate with all of your games from each of the different Launchers, conveniently consolidating them to a single interface.

[@francesccampos1343]

Brandon i completely understand your point, monopoly is very dangerous, however the publishers need to make things more accessible because sometimes where amazon gives you all easy access they are a barrier. Barnes and Noble is an easy example, for us in EU we can't buy anything from B&N because they refuse to deliver outside of US/Canada. Then there's also the delivery times, fees and possible taxes from deliveries from other regions... From a consumer point of view, Amazon has made far more accessible many titles that are hard to come by domestically or that bookshops refuse to take because they don't think it is a good investment or worth for them. For instance with amazon we don't need to worry about, books being damaged because you can always ask for a refund in case it is damaged or defective without any complaints or problems for the consumer, things like this can be a problem with medium sized businesses that may lack the warmth of the small bookshops, and if you don't have a reliable alternative that could be a problem. I buy most of my domestic books(in Spanish) in bookshops because i've always liked to visit them and to help domestic economy but many of my english books are harder to come by here (Spain), not to mention special editions or the likes so Amazon is almost my only reliable choice since as i've said other big sellers like B&N in the US refuse to deliver to my country. You have probably noticed it with the kickstarters, large numbers of single deliveries to individual people from the US increase the cost and the taxes a lot, making many people that would have contributed more to take lower tiers because they can't afford huge delivery prices + taxes in addition to the basic cost of the product. I know you tried to help us a lot with this, but i think small publishers won't be able to do that or will refuse to deliver certain places where they think it's not worth for them.

[@maurinet2291]

Very glad you guys went through all this, I've only gotten bits and pieces about the trial. The whole talk was so insightful. Thank you!!!

[@gregfenton7350]

Regarding the “I’m a straight white author” and “diverse voices” issues - there is nothing you can do and it’s not appropriate to make that a criticism of you The criticism about diversity in writing belongs at the publishing level. If a publisher refuses to work with authors based on immutable characteristics that’s an issue that should be criticized and can be fixed But once the books are written and published, it becomes an issue of merit. No one is going to read 4, 1,000 page stormlight books because you’re white and straight. They do it cause they enjoy the books. If the next “star author” in fantasy is a black woman it will be because she is writing what a lot of people enjoy and want.

[@redgyrados2000]

True, but a part of this is also on how publishers, bookstores, etc market books and allow people to discover them, even after they get to the stage of getting published. That still isn't Brandon's fault though, all he can do is use his platform to try to uplift other marginalized voices (and I think he's done a decent job of that when he backed every single publishing kickstarter)

[@gregfenton7350]

@@redgyrados2000 still, publishers and stores exist to make money. If there is demand for a book or series they'll meet it. Simple as that. Its about quality of the product and it catching on with the audience. The only colour they care about is green.

[@Interlink98]

When I searched the merger trial, this video was the 4th result. Good job guys!

[@h.i.m.3200]

Okay, so I'm not quite at the end of the video yet but I have some thoughts on the stagnation of publishing and their failure to break out of the traditional publishing mold. So besides the whole make-your-own-platform and the multiple edition things Brandon talked about in his post on the kickstarter, there's another thing trad pubs have missed. Webcomics and webnovels have been pretty popular, especially in the last 5 years. (They've been around for longer but they've been growing exponentially since 2015-2016 imo). Royal Road and other websites now exist. I feel like that type of serialized storytelling is an untapped market for trad publishers. While you're at it, why not legitimize these works and create the potential for the more successful stories to be traditionally published or bundled as edited ebooks instead of ignoring their existence? The East Asian publishing industries have figured this out years ago and now there are large built audiences for these online works on these platforms. Amazon is belatedly hopping on this trend with the creation of Kindle Vella but better late than never. They can at least see an opportunity there. I'd love to see trad publishing morph and adapt to the current age and see opportunities for what they are. It took years for officially translated manga to take off and it was only because wild horse publishers appeared (before trad pubs acquired these publishing houses and not even all did). This is why I find their obsession with Tik Tok absolutely hilarious. Like, is this the only opportunity for growth you see in the future of publishing? XD

[@connorokeefe67]

Only manga publishers in the US will occasionally bring webtoons to print and even then it isnt many. They get literally millions of reads im sure there are enough people that would like to own them in a physical format.

[@h.i.m.3200]

@@connorokeefe67 Yeah, the Solo Leveling* series getting trad published was pretty exciting. They were bestselling everywhere. Then there are the webseries by Chinese author MXTX that got an official translation last year that were topping NYT bestsellers list. There's a lot of potential but you'll notice only the manga/light novel publishers are jumping on it and even then they're being super careful about it.

[@connorokeefe67]

@@h.i.m.3200 Idk why theyre so reluctant especially considering how pretty much every popular light novel (besides nisioisin stuff, he's probably the most traditional ln author you'll find) are all based on webnovels. I understand how betting on unproven talent is risky but online fanbases have consistently shown their loyalty and people that recognize that are profiting big right now.

[@heenybeanyteeny8465]

Can we get longer episodes? We want more Dan and Brandon! 👏🏽

[@janalewis3030]

Love your comment about the publishers being in NYC. I would love to work in trade publishing (work in textbook publishing right now) but will not move to NYC! Too expensive and too far from family. :)

[@somerandomguy1003]

Write good books and let the market decide. And If you read a good book tell others about it! I admire you Brandon saying I'm going to write my books and stay out of it.

[@aomukai]

I'm an indie author and publishing wide. I agree though that other markets like Kobo or Apple Books need to gain some traction.

[@mcbcinc]

The thought of moving from Manhattan to NJ made me think of "Hamilton," "Everything is legal in New Jersey..."

[@whorhaydelfuego7190]

The argument for dealerships was that there needed to be someone local that was invested in maintaining those cars, rather than just pumping and dumping. Which is hilarious because the last time my Dodge vehicle broke down and needed service the Dealership refused to look at it because it was too old, and they didn't want to work on older vehicles. At the time the vehicle was only twelve years old.

[@samanthaa.6055]

I was born in NYC and raised by a New Yorker. Can confirm they think their city is the center of everything and are completely ignorant of most things that take place away from their little series of islands

[@James-wn9qc]

Clicked this as soon as I read the title. Hype!

[@LinkEX]

Today I learned dealing with Book Publishers can be terrible in many ways: 1. They can afford to be overly conservative, yet complain about new (and arguably better) ways of publishing 2. They have a vanity problem, wasting their money on prestigious news papers not fit for the target group solely to flex on other publishers 3. They will bloat the budget for a book tour, needlessly making it impossible for lesser authors, and sometimes aren't too keen on geography And all in all, their managers just sound like they have an ego problem. Specifically, one that makes them fight not the market, but other book publishers.

[@destineesauer2283]

Man! So many great questions y'all asked...very thought provoking! Thank you.

[@sortitus]

In the discussion about why publishers selling to consumers is bad, one key thing to think of here is that there are two types of monopolies: vertical and horizontal. If you own all distribution of books, that is a horizontal monopoly. If you instead dominate by owning the whole process top to bottom (from signing to editing to production to distribution and sales), that is a vertical monopoly. Vertical monopolies squeeze out competition by making any upstarts in any piece of the process have to replicate the entire thing or be crushed by economies of scale and brand recognition. Coca-Cola and Pepsico and other food brands are highly vertically integrated and make direct competition very difficult. It's interesting because often times people think of horizontal monopolies as harder to disrupt, but a simple innovation in a sector can disrupt a horizontal monopoly if the established companies don't recognize the threat until it's too late. It's much harder, as you note, to replace the things other than just printing books available to booksellers that the publishing houses do.

[@ryanwraight5630]

I only listen to audiobooks since I find it easier to fit in my schedule. It is a very positive user experience so I see the trouble of a publisher needing to design a model that competes with Audible. I have used audiobook players that never remembered your spot. I remember a friend saying they were playing 12.99 for a bookmark that also to happen to get them a book every month too.

[@ryzvonusef]

Brandon, ignore the haters, you did nothing wrong

[@DoliSkipper]

The "Third Steam" would be GOG, I suppose, well worth checking out their library of old classic games as well all the new stuff (DRM-free at that, and they have great sales ofc :)

[@brouhajoe]

I had the opposite experience when I moved out West from New York State. Living in LA, when I'd tell people I was from Rochester NY, they'd immediately talk to me about New York City, which is roughly an 8 hour drive from my home city.

[@SomeTomfoolery]

Thank you Brandon for being so positive and wholesome!

[@MSRomsa]

Brandon just needs to start his own publishing company. There's a number of famous musicians that make their own record label, why not have one of the biggest authors in the world start a publishing company to lift up talented members of the industry in the same way.

[@ZaganothofArathor]

"I get paid in Coke" - Dan Wells 2022

[@starrynightfall00]

Such an underrated joke 😂

[@jamesmontgomery7074]

I was expecting "How's that Simon?" at the end of this one.

[@WadeTripp]

FYI I kickstarted one because of what you did and thanks for sharing. ( Soccer Moms of the Apocalypse )

[@aerynmusick4548]

“It had to come from delicious barbecue.” That’s just state law in Texas.

[@DisneyBatchman]

Don't have anything to add in regards to this specific content, but just wanted to take a moment to say I sincerely enjoy this podcast, wish I had noticed it and started watching it earlier, and this is the only podcast I watch, so far. (And apologies if I'm wrong, and that's not what this actually is.) You two just have wonderful conversations that span wide varieties of topics and remain interesting. Thank you for being you!

[@laylaalder2251]

I don't think the color of your skin matters in regards to reading other worlds. It sounds more like we just need more ways to train newer authors to come up with their own identity instead of trying to imitate the identity of others.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Agreed - good books will be found and read regardless of who writes them. So the more good authors and good books the more people will read!

[@rosssims7224]

It’s sad that Amazon started as a book company and now they can’t even package and send their books properly without damage. It’s so frustrating!

[@TheRealGravyTrain]

I've been going through Malazan. 30+ titles make that a tough bargain for my precious audible credits and relying on the waitlist on overdrive/libraries is tough. Then I found the audiobooks are on scribd. Scribd, so far, seems fantastic. I will be using it next to finish Shadows of the Apt by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

[@TheRealGravyTrain]

My point being that with the number of titles in the cosmere folks may have the same worry. Dragonsteel may want to take a look there to see if it could be a fit for the cosmere.

[@andurilcuivie]

Scribed throttles pretty fast, but if you are going slowly though a series’s with no plans to re-read, it’s ok.

[@destro6971]

Have you gents watched RRR? That could be a fun chat 👍🏼💥

[@MrSilvUr]

Ah, so Brandon can be called to testify in this trial...

[@isaachickox-young836]

Thank you both for pronouncing Nevada correctly!!

[@hmmmooops]

CEO: Your time as a threat to publishing is over Brandosando: You fools, I was never the threat. *Brandon's writingmind runs out and he dies narratively*

[@backliteyes]

Wow, fantastic hustle on the first and second book tours. Sounds terribly painful but success doesn’t come easy.

[@gregorio7945]

We should definitely stay away from monopolies, but it's hard when some of the nearly monopolistic companies are so good at what they do.

[@cbpd89]

I wonder if it would be possible to break up Amazon in some way? Make Audible independent or the Kindle store separate from shopping for physical stuff.

[@gregorio7945]

@@cbpd89 huh. That’s interesting. It would be cool if that could happen.

[@coltonbaggett4331]

Honestly I think all those people in the big corporate companies for publishing are a bunch of sleeze bags. They pretty much get to decide what is published and not or atleast was is put in front of customers. Greed is what kills the artistic spark. Screw all those big companies. Brandon is doing it right

[@TonyRobetson]

fun fact, barnes and noble is doing audiobooks now. i always try to tell people to get audiobooks through their local library. here in colorado, all residents can get an e-card to the Denver library. as far as what you can do to help other authors; the stuff youre already doing. like youre teaching a class right? and i think you even put it on youtube. then there's the various things you and Dan do to share your experiences in the industry. the other big thing is book recommendations. i've found some of my favorite books from authors i like. think the successful have a responsibility to help lift up others and i think you guys do that. can always do more but you're not doing nothing :)

[@rendarcrow]

The only reason I know is because of you and im extremely thankful for that. I firmly stand against this merger.

[@silverwyhrecat5]

If I have the time, I can go through 2-3 books in a day and still have time to do other things. I eat books. Now that I'm out of college, I'm discovering authors who debuted during that time, books by authors I have already read and loved (but didn't realize were still alive), dead authors who are still beloved enough that I caught wind of them and now have like 35 of the 41 book series, and authors releasing books now. Let's look at the case of Six Crimson Cranes. Back in 2009, give or take, I was at a used book store and found a trilogy, the first book in the series a retelling of the brothers who get turned into swans and their sister can't speak until she breaks the curse. I love that book (the second one is better but that's only because of the main guy). I went to college, didn't read, got out of college and a decade has passed since I first got that book. But I remember it. And I find a new retelling, read it, and go "Eh." So maybe I don't actually like that story, I just liked that specific book. And then I found Six Crimson Cranes, another retelling of that same story. And I decided to try that book on for size, to see which of the two previous was the outlier. Well, I borrowed it from the library, read it in like four hours, and then immediately went looking for the second one. Which still isn't out yet and I'm anxiously waiting because gah. Since that, I've read the author's other duology and that book kick-started the four week East Asian retellings-of-myths-and-fairytales kick I went into where I borrowed and bought probably two dozen of them. I read author acknowledgements. And I've found books by finding other authors in author acknowledgements. I find tropes I like and read those tropes (which is a more hit and miss way to do it). I read books from authors announced as coming to my local convention (I burned through an entire catalogue of one of those authors and about had a fit in Barnes and Noble when I found out she'd come in and signed all the copies of one of her books, obviously I bought one and another book by her I hadn't been planning on buying that day, and convinced three people in a different Barnes and Noble to buy that book). Brandon is such a small blip in the number of books I read that the idea that he alone is cause for worry is laughable. If he'd done what he did traditionally, I still would be buying those books. But I wouldn't stop buying other books just because I bought his. I would have problems if I only read Brandon (granted, my Storygraph statistics looks like I read a ton of Brandon, but I'm trying to reread SLA and Mistborn again before Lost Metal comes out and obviously I have to reread the Alcatraz books before Bastille Vs the Evil Librarians comes out.) Compared to the almost 200 I've read this year so far, Brandon has a decent showing, but so do several Indie authors and several authors who've been dead for a while. And I've gotten into a book club, which lets me pitch books I've read so other people can read them (we're reading Alcatraz Vs the Evil Librarians right now because the sixth one comes out next month and everyone should read Alcatraz and one of the people in my book club doesn't read books until the series is finished). I'm an extreme example and I know this. But readers are readers. If you give them interesting books, they will read them. And they will talk about them. And now that BookTok is a big thing, that's going to be changing the landscape as well. But people aren't going to stop reading and they aren't going to stop talking. And one author with a wildly successful Kickstarter is not going to change that.

[@sierraworkman5261]

As a life-long fan. Anything with the Sanderson name, either as a writer or endorsement. I'm going to buy it.

[@ianberlin3214]

Don't stop working because of "white guilt" it is okay to be great, and really we all love good stories. Just keep making quality works. It is always helpful to have examples of excellence, too many voices focus on other things that can't replace excellence.

[@darkokoroshi5883]

every week, we have more and more material for an "out of context" compilation xD

[@darkokoroshi5883]

...after re-watching and editing the first 10 episodes into one 9min. video, I came here to share the link... but sence the "☕☕☕☕☕" is gone, along with the coment where I said I would do it is gone... I'm guessing you didn't like the idea. Well, good think it's private :) Keep up the good work :D

[@yannispapoulis7550]

It’s interesting because ultimately readers do buy what they want and most people have limited wallets. I’ll always buy Sanderson’s works and that very well may mean I don’t get another book. Especially when talking the limited number of hardcover new releases I let myself get each year to not overdo it.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Agreed, but just because readers have a limited book fund doesn't mean old authors crowd out newer ones. When a new book is a hit at the library, word gets out and if they are good enough books then people will shift some of their book budget for the new good books. So there is a theoretical limit, but I highly doubt there are nearly enough great books or wide enough selection of books to get near that limit - I'm with Dan that good books make more readers and more book buyers, and so long as good books can be produced regardless of who writes them, there are untapped people and markets who will be attracted to said books.

[@yannispapoulis7550]

@@OntheOtherHandVideos ​ totally agreed. For myself, I’ve fallen in love with Will Wights Cradle series. I’ve jumped in on the kickstarter and I’ve planned for when I’ll continue to extend my purchases to get the rest. I also decided to do ebook only for In the Shadow of Lightning this year in order to get all of the Green Bone Saga. McClellan can take the non hardcover hit as I have the rest of his books and I want to support Fonda Lee after the brilliance that is GBS.

[@Ninjaman195]

Dan even got his room temperature Coke zero in frame this time

[@rosssims7224]

It’s hard for Barnes and Noble to compete. I love B&N and being in the store, but it’s hard to compete when they are full price and Amazon is 40% off.

[@blugobln85]

"Lets pause...." "Pause... ?!" "For a food heist!" YES!

[@jonevansauthor]

I'm a little surprised that neither Brandon or Dan mentioned Kobo, Draft 2 Digital, Patreon, selling from your own website, Apple books or Google, Smashwords etc. There are a lot of authors making six figures who are wide and not exclusive to Amazon. Some do it purely on Patreon. Some do it with crowdfunding. Some direct through their websites. You can sell audiobooks and ebooks from your own site now. Basically the indie scene is an awful lot bigger than just Amazon, although they are they easiest way to start out. A huge number of indies advocate going wide - being on lots of platforms and not exclusive to Amazon, for exactly the same reason Brandon did his Kickstarter. Basically, if you're an indie or want to be, you don't have to be worried about Amazon although I'd heartily recommend you not boycott them. The future is really bright, and it's getting easier and easier to be an indie.

[@alexwyckoff8962]

The biggest threat to publishing imo is publishers themselves. Editors and agents make piss-poor money most of the time despite grueling, long labor.

[@waystatus8945]

IMO, the biggest threat to traditional publishing is traditional publishing. Publishers' inability and unwillingness to adapt with the times has landed them squarely in the situation that they're in now. Now they're reliant on Amazon for the majority of their business, and at the same time Amazon is undermining their business model. Until the publishing industry can break out of that spiral they're doomed to fail.

[@laurensmith3758]

If Brandon ever started a rival publishing platform for indie e-books and audiobooks I would switch over in a heartbeat from Amazon. I can totally picture like a publishing equivalent to what A24 has become in the film industry.

[@fakjbf3129]

I never read a lot in elementary school until third grade when I began reading Harry Potter, and by fifth grade I was reading the Lord of the Rings. My reading slowed down in high school and college, and a couple years ago I started a job that had a long commute. I had heard about Brandon’s books and thought they sounded neat plus they were nice and long so I started listening to them on Audible during the drive, and since then I have read multiple other series such as Wheel of Time, the Expanse, Dune, A Song of Ice and Fire, and recently began the First Law series. A good book can absolutely inspire readership that leads to them branching out to other authors. Anyone who looks at the problems in the publishing industry and thinks the answer is to ever stop other authors for being successful is truly shooting themselves in the foot.

[@thebrokenbreakingseas8317]

The publishing industry is so self-obsessed and obsessed with their own prestige while simultaneously refusing to pay their assistant level employees a liveable wage in NYC. It's so backwards. I feel like the danger to wages is just as real as the danger to author advances as a result of the merger, and no one is talking about that.

[@ros498]

I just started thinking about how supermarkets and good heists go hand in hand. They but food from farmers who get too little money, and then the owners of said supermarkets get rich. Hmm. But anyway, back to point: I think self publishing is dangerous in a way that it's both harming traditional publishing, and therefore forcing people to pay to get their books marketed and out there, because of the thing with less places being willing to sell their books. So it's harming both traditional publishing and poor people

[@sharen98100]

Very interesting hearing both of your opinions on the article mentioned in part 2 :) i've been wondering what you thought about it since I read those types of complaints. Gives a lot to think about, since they do come from a place of concern but it does not have a simple answer.