Our Pandemic Story (w/Dr. Abraham Verghese)

"Stories are how we make sense of the world."
Novelist and Stanford Professor of Medicine Dr. Abraham Verghese reminds us that story matters, now during this pandemic more than ever.
Transcript, links, audio podcast, and more: zdoggmd.com/abraham-verghese
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[@nancyprier416]

"Cutting for Stone" was one of the most amazing books I have ever read!

[@iammychoices]

I love the fact that he worked as a nursing assistant!! We are connected in one way or another!

[@AftStrut]

Getting back to the basics of medicine. Caring, hearing, socializing and recognition.

[@OPNotes]

His voice is quite calming and reassuring. Very humble doc with a beautiful outlook on life!

[@d.l2089]

Two incredible orators engaging in an amazing dialogue. Cutting for Stone and his foreword for When Breath Becomes Air were so beautifully written ❤️

[@melindavansandt5168]

Love u for supporting us nurses!!!!!

[@billytheweasel]

thank you Melinda

[@RakhtanQ]

This man is a legend, love his clinical examinations

[@dawngorman7292]

I absolutely loved this interview. Amazing

[@georgeshepherd3381]

Another great episode! The "human" aspect is soooooooooooooooooo important. I am thinking of Joseph Campbell and "The Power of Myth" as I listen to this. The power of story. I did time as a patient at NIH in the mid 80s. I became good friends (and remain friends) with the physician who took care of me at the time (he was doing his fellowship then). I even remember attending his 50th birthday party. I remain good friends with some of the nurses who took care of me.

[@nancymueller6206]

My mind is overwhelmed. I’ll watch this again and again.

[@pattipa-c5797]

My brain is exploding right now and my worlds colliding. One of my absolute favorite books CFS ❤️❤️❤️. Thank you!!!

[@risadoobie]

“Stories are how we make sense of the world” 1000% And also: writing by hand helps me understand. Taking notes. Making lists (even if I never check them off) is the way I process my thoughts. Just writing it down helps me remember important details in a way checking boxes or typing in never will. Absolutely loved this interview. Love dr V and dr z

[@sunpathviewer]

I feel less alone now. Thank you gentlemen. The vicarious trauma of this novel experience is a challenge that cannot be stigmatized. Shout it out!

[@DragisaRadovanovic]

Dr. Verghese was so influential in how I practice clinical medicine. The 'ritual' of the physical exam is something I've kept and use to this day. Great to see him on your show Dr. Z!

[@redchile2060]

Keep bringing back Dr. Verghese! This was fantastic ❤️

[@sherribarman915]

TY for reminding me how literature can progress, educate and pleasure one’s mind/being/outlook...Like Water for Chocolate & Life in the Time of Cholera both changed me and that was 30-40 years ago. Time for a re-read! Just WOW!

[@norniea]

I am just now reading Dr. Verghese's book, "Cutting For Stone". It is fantastic. I just now came across this interview with him. Thank you Dr. D for this!

[@billytheweasel]

I would want my nurse in the room. And an advocate. Many heads are better than even one great head.

[@carolapolakov3338]

I love Vergese! I read Cutting for Stone twice and listened to the beautifully narrated audiobook also twice.

[@navigatingyourhealthcare9566]

Dr Z, another great show and another great guest. It might be surprising to hear me say this, but you and your guest might enjoy some of the general writings by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schnerson. Purpose, humanity, a sense of the greater spiritual. Might find some fun consistency with traditional Indian understandings. No, we aren't going back. We're going forward, and we have great opportunity in spite of tragedy.

[@CricketsMa]

Absolutely the best show ever! Thank you!!

[@ptrottershoulders3474]

That human connection ! Thank you !

[@karenkaren3189]

Love this man. Oh and zdogg is cool.

[@ZDoggMD]

😅

[@georgeshepherd3381]

@@ZDoggMD In this episode by Dr. Z Where he interviews Dr. V Making a foray Into the power of story Shows how versatile a Dr. can be

[@ptrottershoulders3474]

Zdog!.. he is human....! What a wonderful open mind .. he has!!!

[@johnbelcher7955]

Such a beautiful conversation! I will watch this again later. As an artist, I really identity how the act of drawing and the observation is a process of remembering opposed to just looking. I have the same concept of time and being in the NOW (need to sit at the pottery wheel and create!) 😃

[@paigerperry867]

LOVE him! Great guest, ZDogg!!!

[@anamariagiraldoramirez4441]

This a beautifull interview. What a master of humbleness.

[@hollyharshaw5092]

Really enjoyed this interview. "Character is defined by decisions made under pressure".

[@lessenful]

“It is the silence between the notes that makes the music; it is the space between the bars that cages the tiger.”

[@driveturt86]

Its the pause between the inhale and the exhale where you find tranquility.

[@georgeshepherd3381]

I Remember hearing Wayne Dwyer mentioning that in an interview once...

[@georgeshepherd3381]

@@driveturt86 Ooooh I like!

[@driveturt86]

@@georgeshepherd3381 thanks

[@dangieli2002]

I love and have so much respect for Dr. Verghese!!!

[@heatherwalter2758]

This is an amazing synthesis of our plight as humans in these times. There was a time in western civilization when well educated people were well rounded and people of science could quote poetry and appreciate great music and know history. As a teacher, I see these incredibly gifted students graduating from high school and college with an incredible knowledge of math and science, but they know nothing else. If we are going to solve our complicated social problems, we need our best and brightest to be well rounded, informed people. Our over emphasis on STEM in education at such a young age, is leaving us deprived of professionals like this wise man, who can think critically on broader issues. A scientist who reads Camus, DeFoe, and Gilgamesh!!! Amazing!!!!!

[@sarah2.017]

Despite being female, I do find it disturbing the way STEM is being shoved down girls' throats. STEM is, of course, an important field, but what if she isn't interested in that? Really, it's OK for a girl to work in a female-dominated field if she wants to!

[@kerri404]

I love the aspect of story telling. We all have a story to tell.

[@johnbailey1503]

I'm an RT and have worked with some good PA's. My first job there was a PA who was a medic in Nam and he was the one they called when we had a gun shot victem come into the ER.

[@Gabbiegirlpup]

I read “My Own Country” when I was in nursing school and not only did I thoroughly enjoy “being” alongside this wonderful physician throughout his journey, but he helped me understand so much by speaking plainly and teaching through his writing. Love this man!! (And you Z ... thanks)

[@cherlgolja5402]

Brilliant👨🏻‍🔬👨🏻‍🔬

[@kimberliegregg9726]

Vulnerable Honesty! 🙏

[@ravenclawsunshine7491]

Wow! He has such a calming and kind vibe. Loved this interview, zdogg!

[@sabbapixie]

I loved listening to this discussion. Dr Verghese is a great communicator, storyteller and I am going to look for his novel

[@apstrike]

So amazing that you are interviewing Dr Verghese. His books, particularly The Tennis Partner, are such a beautiful exploration of how the doctor can maintain and cultivate their humanity despite the grind and dehumanization process of contemporary medicine. I am very pleased to see you chat with him: you're doing much of the same thing a generation later in the world of KZbin, and both Dr Varghese's and your contributions are equally valuable in different ways. Not everyone can write novels, or simply write as well as Dr Verghese but I would encourage you to write a book, in addition to the KZbin if that is something that you would like to do.

[@aprilek6003]

Just love Dr. Verghese. I've read all of his books and loved "Cutting for Stone"

[@johnlevine3384]

Powerful! Loved Cutting for Stone

[@ckaarchitect]

Great discussion, will share.

[@reasonphoenix984]

Great talk, what a lovely and wise man Dr. Verghese is. Would LOVE to see you, Dr Martenson from Peak Prosperity and Dr John Campbell get together for a chat.Your channels have really helped me navigate my way through the confusion through this pandemic and make informed health choices. Thank you so much. Please make it happen! The world really needs you guys right now!

[@barbdickson7304]

I have been following you for several months now and really appreciate your viewpoints on Covid and other issues. I am Canadian so can’t relate to some of the issues with the American medical system but you are providing people with sooo much good science based information - keep it coming

[@ptrottershoulders3474]

To have the mind and the heart ! To hear all sides !..

[@veveysan]

Excellent fusion of our cultural and literary history with science and our current situation.

[@jleigh4886]

Hello, Dr. Verghese~! So happy to see you! I LOVED reading your books! So, you said we're not going back to what it was like before Covid19. I guess we don't really know what it will be like because there is so much we don't know. Praying for a good vaccine(s).

[@ptrottershoulders3474]

I'm the guy with the bow tye! I love it!!

[@SJDevenney1]

Great work. When you guys were referencing the now it reminds me of two situations. 1) High level athletics when you are in the zone and 2 taking care of a critical patient.

[@michaelasharma]

Thanks from a PA!

[@sophieoshaughnessy9469]

Yes. All one story. A story of a great reckoning.

[@francesco5581]

Jung noticed that we aren't really scared to die at the unconscious level (and he pointed that old people are even less scared) . Animals share the very same unconscious attitude . Jung concluded that if nature made us not fearing death (at unconscious level) that mean something ... And the answer can be only on a spiritual (or religious) level.

[@t.c.s.7724]

Yes, I found it rather strange the way participants assumed animals would be paralyzed by a fear of mortality. Naive anthropomorphism. Jung is probably more accurate.

[@VincentFung86]

This was beautiful

[@annedominy6198]

I have such a crush on Dr V. I love a sensitive man with a brain.

[@TajArmstrong]

“Don’t waste time on hate.” Beautiful. I will remember that.

[@ptrottershoulders3474]

The nation decide!... Amen! Amazing!... He lives each day as a new begining.. he sees not passes by .. he See's!!!

[@jennifer4bz953]

oh LOVED your spiritual theory...

[@tim2269]

Lovely man

[@Melissainsc]

The connection between the physical act of writing and learning, recalling, and synthesis has been studied in the context of education. You are correct that the physicality of writing (or even of reading a physical, print book) enhances the ability of the brain to process the information presented (or created). For this reason, students learn better when they use pen and paper to take notes in class.

[@elainemcdaniel3954]

Let's hope that after the Covid doesn't resemble V for Vendetta. Control isn't easily given up.

[@sarah2.017]

"My Own Country" is one of the greatest books about the early days of the AIDS epidemic.

[@dejpsyd0421]

I LOVED The Tennis Partners!

[@monykalynf3604]

You have to understand a patients story: I once REAMED a Medical resident for coming in-interrupting me (I am an RD)-delivered a lecture on quitting smoking (pt there with pneumonia, also some pretty severe weight loss, and was showing some signs of moderate malnutrition). I had just (after 2 days of visiting him) established a rapport on why he was smoking again when he'd successfully quit. His mom had lost her job, so mom and his sister moved in with him; short of money he bought groceries for THEM and used cigarettes to mask hunger. Proud man, hard worker his whole life, I had just convinced him to let me tell social worker as there are resources so all are taken care of etc. That dammed resident BLEW it. I went out of room and pulled him aside and let him have it, went to attending and told him what i did then went to my boss and told her as I fully expected to be written up (never happened). Happened many years ago, have never forgotten his story, and there are REASONS why people do what they do.

[@SpoonieSensei]

Dr. Verghese (i apologise if that is incorrect - feel free to correct me!) but i could never attempt to articulate how CRAZY Important it is for us to recognize mythologies and general philosophical and theoretical works ... in just about every field (i mean, cs is based in formal logic!). very joseph campbell-ish but in general i think doctors tend to undervalue the importance of the spoken word preserved in literature and the various other humanities. ohhh ... the more he speaks the more i think either literary theory or philosophy ... but yes, if the knowledge of these kinds of works were more readily taught - i learned all of this before my high school graduation and i think i was rare in that regard ... and were of the mind to LISTEN to the opposing ideas on various mythologies (which is crazy in my mind ... they exist so they are .. so ...??) - but there is a collective "human canon of knowledge" along with a universal "subconscious" or "unconscious." and i think modern tech ESP the social networking "sites" definitively suppress that knowledge and intuition alike. OH MY GOODNESS! WHEN DR. VERGHESE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT NEEDING PERSONAL TRAUMA TO "UNDERSTAND;" THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ARTICULATE!! i think most people just have no idea how awful a "regular" bout of pneumonia or even bronchitis can be like - HOW IT HURTS LIKE YOU PROBABLY HAVE NEVER HURT BEFORE. those levels of fever have broken my teeth as well. i just seem to see more often than not the people who are playing a little too "loosely" for me (like going to bars and shows, &c.) ... there is no way in HELL i would go to a bar right now even if i could find an open one just because we have identified such places as "high risk." no no no no no. i agree 100% with the "act of writing" as a means to understand what is going on in your head. i am a writer as well ... as per the very long comments.... oh GOD we read ALL of TLOTR by 6th grade. not such a good idea ... i.e., i don't remember much. maybe it would be different if we had wanted to read it ... but that was kind of shoved between Shakespeare and classic american lit like mark twain ... and we didn't have nearly enough "context" to get much of it at all. but we did it. we did the whole midsummer's night dream play LIVE in 6th grade. the WHOLE thing. sans scripts. so you're asking a bunch of 6th graders to memorize all of shakespeare and know so much geography it would probably nauseate you and then be asked to actually remember all of it when college came around! this is a quick question, at any rate - how does one deal with the acceptance of a parent basically acting in accordance with something like MSBP and allowing their children to suffer from their parent's / parents' own problems? i have seen A LOT of this lately - "OH! MY CHILD HAS ONE HIVE ON HER BACK AND IT MUST BE ANAPHYLAXIS AND BEHÇET'S!" and you have no idea how much i wish that weren't true. but how do you get past something like that because for me giving a child very long-term serious meds like you know the TNF-a inhibitors and IL-x inhibitors and the vast range of DMARDS, &c., for a couple of pimples is abusive, at best. which is not to say there is not Behçet's in childhood ... mine started going from banana to bonkers around 14 ... but the same criteria should still be upheld and no matter what we're talking about parents MUST choose the least detrimental courses of action for their children ... except now i am seeing so many cases where they are doing just the opposite. i struggle to retain "normal" tact, so dealing with this is just like ... i don't know even what to say.

[@lvargas6611]

Interesting Both

[@allenwarren1269]

24:50 Go for coherence instead of adherence. Advance toward innocence beyond naivete and guilt.

[@michaelcariello6233]

1300 health care workers died simply by going to work. A population of people that were thrown to the wolves.

[@johnhungerford6073]

I am pretty sure KZbin is suppressing your videos. I had to search you. Never shows up in my feed anymore....

[@MegF142857]

Many don't have hearing aids because they are expensive, don't last very long & then need to replace, and aren't covered by Medicare. So... don't assume people don't wear a hearing aid because they have vanity. Same holds for dental care. It isn't covered by Medicare. Even if you have dental insurance, then lots isn't covered. So people walk around unable to hear & unable to chew. Teeth can start to give out as you age (crack, chip), but getting caps is expensive. Some may just end up having teeth pulled. Sad... but don't assume it's vanity or whatever.

[@lesleyriseam1282]

Its interesting that putting to one side the collectivism of Asian society , they experienced SARs and MERs so they had had a dry run for Covid . The next pandemic could be a more difficult to deal with but we maybe wont have so much resistance .

[@rosemarieloncaric-spataro2861]

It is a team effort is it not? Always a positive outcome when everyone is in sinc

[@BR00TALPEGGY]

🙏💖

[@cdavidlake2]

Anything that distracts Dr. Z from his recent COVID truther flirtations is a highly positive development - and this would be welcome regardless of context. Nice.

[@swagobill]

we need to separate ourselves and our kids from technology for periods of time.....we need times to ponder our own thoughts and ideas and not constantly fill our minds with other peoples thoughts and ideas

[@robertoldham3760]

IFR will end up around .2 , think about that

[@codymiller510]

("the 40 days is standing in the way???")

[@codymiller510]

("...last night I had a revelation about how Pfizer left me with a refund department instead of an investigatory one???...")

[@codymiller510]

"it was unethical???"

[@samanthanewton1340]

Do I need to wipe everything down? I've heard I don't need to, but china keeps finding it on frozen food.

[@karenkaren3189]

I personally haven’t wiped anything down since April. I just wash my hands well after putting groceries away, before cooking and eating.

[@karenkaren3189]

The virus is destroyed by stomach acid, btw.

[@danharris7212]

The microwave supposedly kills the virus after about 2 minutes. I think the number was originally 30sec but I heard it changed.

[@billytheweasel]

We wipe groceries off before bringing them in. But we also wore masks when all the experts said they did more harm than good.

[@jessman8597]

I totally liked this video until he said we will never go back to normal. That's truly troubling. Masking the rest of our lives is truly troubling. It's one thing to wear them another year or so, but to make them permanent is a hell I can't imagine. I really want my freedom and life back. This was the first video that truly devastated me. Usually, I appreciate the balance. But this time we are advocating for the "new normal" but there's nothing normal about this.

[@michaelcariello6233]

Isn’t Zdogg anti empathy as it pertains to medical care.

[@ZDoggMD]

I'm anti-empathy and pro-compassion zdoggmd.com/empathy-is-wrong/

[@michaelcariello6233]

Thank you for the response. I only say that because the good doc you were interviewing was obviously very empathetic and is an advocate for such. Yet you did not engage in any push back or elaborate on your feelings about empathy Vs compassion. I on the other hand believe heavily in empathy. The reason we are in this mess with Covid is number 1 because of Trump and number 2 is the lack of empathy amongst our population. So I would respectfully disagree with your empathy vs compassion concept. We need both in a big way. Appreciate your content and the work you have been doing on this topic.

[@michaelasharma]

@@michaelcariello6233, what about empathy do you heavily believe in?

[@michaelcariello6233]

@@michaelasharma in order to help people or problem solve you must have The ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes and understand what and why they are feeling the way they do. Empathy is even more relevant when dealing with Corona Virus pandemic because there is such a huge disparity between groups that are severely effected by the virus and those who are minimally effected whether medically of through some form of collateral damage. You must be able to see things from all sides and and several different view points in order to be an effective leader or caretaker.

[@michaelasharma]

​ @michael Cariello , thanks for the response. I'm having a hard time distinguishing your how description of empathy is different from Z's description of compassion (adapted from Paul Bloom) as "love in the face of suffering. Understanding pain and seeking to relieve suffering, but not taking the pain as one’s own." Consider that maybe your positions are closer than you think. Z's definition of empathy (again adapted from Bloom) as "feeling another’s pain as your own and acting from that feeling to relieve the pain" does not feel sustainable or even helpful. I can understand why a layperson is in pain and is even scared/confused about their pain, and then treat their pain appropriately, without personally feeling their pain, fear, or confusion... let alone the pain and accompanying feelings of the dozens of other patients I saw earlier that shift.

[@AustralianChristianFascists]

"Story matters" instead of facts.... Story matters - i.e. political propaganda.... create an emotional narrative where people don't care about facts, and ignore facts that run contrary to the story, because they are so emotionally invested in it.

[@francesco5581]

The whole "just the present is real , past and future are not" is so silly . Fact is that while i was writing this comment my "present" is already advanced so much ... There are some things that are so "cool" to be said but just are totally out of logic . Fact is that we are all on a train that goes fast against a wall , we can just delay the crash but we cant stop the train . The only true logic is :is a wall or is a door ?

[@flatearthevidence8473]

Deep! But what is the Truth? By the wisdom of God the world by Wisdom knew not God. Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself. God gives man his knowledge and says it is foolishness. Man has always been a proud hypocrite that rejects his Maker. God hid himself from a world he knew would reject him. God knows Everything in advance. God however has been watching and judging. God knows All hearts and will render to each person according to their ways. The just avoid the second death and will be resurrected in the future world. The Old Testament is the foundation of the New testament and is All True. The book of Revelation tells us God's plan before Jesus returns. It says there will be a 7 year tribulation/judgment/Krisis on a wicked God rejecting world. Halfway through the devil will rule and demand people take a mark to buy or sell. Whoever takes the mark is condemned by God. God is righteous and holy. See Ron Rhodes, JD Farag, Sandy Armstrong and Clarence Larkin books. God is controlling all events now.

[@t.c.s.7724]

I am a writer and was a history major as an undergrad in college. Nice podcast but rather silly analysis of military conflict. WWI and WWII are connected. WWI made WWII inevitable. Also, this repetitive praise of advanced science is delusional.

[@johnhungerford6073]

Does doing an excellent Indian accent make it les rude??? 😂😂😂