OUTLAWED! The WHOLE story behind the Indian FTR750 flat-track racer.

[@dennisobrien2578]

Kevin is a national treasure!

[@JosephOlson-ld2td]

Subscribed to Cycle World for decades, Kevin is true expert

[@tedecker3792]

Living encyclopedia of all things moto.

[@magellanicspaceclouds]

One of my favorite episodes so far. I love flat track. I just wish Indian actually made a production FTR750 so they could continue racing it and winning.

[@markmcintosh7095]

I could listen to Kevin all day. He's been in the business for as long as I can remember.

[@shaunstrange1617]

Cycle World is in good hands, two special guys that know their stuff !

[@mjo4981]

Nominated for the quote of the century, not to mention the 80s and the 90s, "companies decide again and again they're going to save money by heating the building by burning their corporate identity..."

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

Well , speaking of corporate identity , HD has to have made an all time foolish decision . About two decades back they sued S and S , for infringing on their unpatentable exhaust note . Apparently not realizing without aftermarket suppliers , that any performance minded customer can't even buy their product , because there's no other way to obtain the bike that they really want . S and S is one of the leaders of that potential desired bike . The notion that a company can sue over an exhaust note could not have possibly emanated from an engineering mind ,,, !

[@craigfarnsworth8333]

Kevin, I've read your articles for years in Cycle World and you taught me so much !! Thanks. 😂😂

[@Sloans_ART]

Once again, you two have demonstrated that a rational engineering mind isn’t limited to robotic analysis of technical issues. It also sees the “softer” issues, like branding, with the same clarity and nuance. Marketing people, in my own personal experience, love to propagate the myth that engineers can’t see the forest for the trees. That’s always struck me as self-interested bigotry. Now I have a podcast to direct such folks to that will open their minds. Much love, boys! Kevin for President!

[@loftythesoftie8857]

This is an awesome series thanks guys from the UK 🇬🇧

[@paulgeorge1834]

I'm glad you brought up Del Mar. I was there with a friend who never stopped grinding new cams for his 2 Big Base Indian Scouts.. Bob Nichols. Because I was with Bob, I got to hang around Shell Thuett. I saw the respect Shell got from guys like Chris Carr and Scott Parker. Both were honored to swing a leg over one of Shell's bikes. He built Indians to win. Then Royal Enfield's. Then Yamahas. I bought a Shell 750 Yamaha engine and put it in an early Schwerma Champion frame. It's wonderful to see what people who care about what they are doing can accomplish. And a big thank you to Maggie (Shell's wife). Who made sandwiches for the riders at the tracks. She knew they were putting all their money into their bikes.

[@cycleworld]

Bob Nichols was a legend! Along with everyone else you mention. Thanks for riding with us.

[@larrynorsworthy8582]

Great sandwiches make for great accomplishments.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@larrynorsworthy8582 With great accomplishments comes great sandwiches.

[@whalesong999]

In 1957, we took to it because it was *cool* !! Cycle magazine and Floyd Clymer put images and products in easy view ($.35 a pop) and it was irresistible..! Lightweights (for us high schoolers) like Parilla, Maico, Zundapp, NSU, Triumph Cubs) were our ticket to watch small, relatively inexpensive machines, become mighty entries for us to begin our explorations and be economical at the same time. For racing, It was the "coolest" to watch Guiseppe Rotigni all tucked in on that 175cc Parilla going down the Dodge City road race straights at speeds unimaginable for most lightweights. That's what drew me and many in my area to motorcycle racing. It got into our blood with a bondage that lasted for years.

[@wctyre49]

In the early 60's my older brother came in second behind Dick Mann in a scrambles race in S Fla.My brother never raced after that because of job priorities.My brother was riding a BSA CLUBMAN 500.I don't remember what Mann was on.

[@rufuspalmer4855]

I rode my Indian 5 hrs in the rain to see Jared Mees and Indian win the final race at Eldon, MO. I attended my first AMA race in 1974. I’d lost complete interest until Indian got involved in 2017. The AMA is a bush league organization; it was in 1974 and it still is in 2024!

[@mustang32758]

I thought it was a good race. I think it's a bad idea to just outright ban those bikes. Come up with a solution everyone can live with instead.

[@joezuppardo9069]

The funny thing is you have been out of the loop so long that you don't know the AMA isn't involved. The organization is now the AFT owned by Daytona Motordports group who bought the rights to American Flat Track from the AMA. The DMG is the principal owner of Nascar.

[@seldomseen7835]

Every time someone I meet finds out I ride a motorcycle they ask what have you got a Harley. Wobbels the mad Aussie.

[@ralphwatten2426]

There's a 460 underneath all that plastic, rubber and wires? I just subscribed. What a great conversation. Don't forget Ricky Graham on the RS 750 kicking Harleys butt with a restricted and weighted Honda.

[@RichardCochran-t6t]

The AMA always seems to find a way to make Harley competitive by adjusting the rules. By the way I recently returned from volunteering at the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials. Maybe a good topic for another episode would be about the difficulties involved in land speed record racing.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

What the hell are you talking about ?

[@bikeweeknation7833]

Thank you for volunteering at the BMST. It was a great week. Hope to see you next year.

[@gronkvbs2795]

The notion that Harley can be unbeatable without having to handicap or outlaw every other manufacturer is really quite laughable.

[@dukecraig2402]

The notion that you have a clue as to what you're talking about is what's laughable. For instance that nonsense you and everyone else believe about Harley supposedly having the AMA restrict OHV engine's to 500cc in the 60's just to hold back the British manufacturers is utter malarkey, because guess what, the rule was enacted in 1932 when there was over 130 motorcycle manufacturers in America and no one brought foreign motorcycle's to America to race on county fair horse racing tracks.

[@ByronTexas]

They did lobby for against Honda in the 80’s so they could dominate the CC class though.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@ByronTexas No, you just think they did because that's the nonsense everyone's always yapped all over the place, Harley never had any more say or any more pull than any other manufacturer, Honda simply pulled the plug on their program back in the 80's because as far as they were concerned they'd accomplished what they set out to do, which was win some Grand National titles but that's not what sold their bikes, so why would they continue to dump money into a racing program that didn't sell bikes in their market? The reason Harley was so good for so many years was simply experience, by the 1960's when people started racing foreign motorcycle's in flat track Harley was the only group of people that had experience that went all the way back to the beginning of flat track racing, and no other manufacturers were willing to commit to a factory program the way they were because their bike sales that stemmed from "Race on Sunday sell on Monday" had nothing to do with flat track, their factory programs were Superbike based because those were the machines they sold to the public. The history of flat track racing and why the rules have always been set up the way they were go back to 1932, that was the height of the great depression and the whole idea all along was to keep someone from cornering the market by having more money than everyone else, the idea has always been that the racer should be what makes the difference and not money, as a result in the 70's you had all those young racers from America that came up through flat track racing who were going out into the world and racing in world competitions, and they'd never have had the chance to hone their skills and get racing experience if flat track was run like other forms of motorcycle racing where the biggest money wins everything.

[@oscaracme]

@@dukecraig2402 Are you aware of the H-D bribery in NHRA? (and I am/was a Harley fan, but they're dirty.)

[@maryhausler8900]

​​@@ByronTexasFirst off the Honda was an overhead cam, 4 valve engine of the same displacement as the HD pushrod 2 valve. It should have never been approved in the first place.

[@geraldgreen6278]

As usual a great program. Flat track is great fun with the FTR as it was with the XR. Hopefully what follows will be as successful. Sad to think the successful have to be punished especially since they invested so much money.

[@jaym8027]

Hats off to Jared Mees. I'm sure he had quite a bit to do with getting that Indian to the front of the pack so many times. I was fortunate enough to see him at the Black Hills Half Mile this past summer; glad I got to see him in action before he retired.

[@magellanicspaceclouds]

In a similar vein, I got to see Rossi race in Austin during his last season in MotoGP.

[@oldschoolmotorsickle]

Wait a minute; the AMA already had this notion about 75 years ago. They called it Class C racing which dictated that American racing would be based on production bikes only.

[@bretloyd8097]

Always has been, the bikes, engines, frames and parts all had to be available to the public. . .

[@joezuppardo9069]

The AMA doesn't run the show anymore. AFT does.

[@steveshoopman9552]

Great show, so insitefull indian s return to dirt track saved it.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

Saved what ? The stands are empty

[@ianjones4071]

Everyone needs a kevin, legend

[@drgallup]

1911 IOM Indian 1, 2, 3 with a 2 speed dog ring transmission. Only Kevin.

[@fernandoboero1852]

Nothing is new under the sun! Every generation thinks they are smarter than the previous. Keep up the good work gentlemen.

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

The genesis of the Honda RS750 began with production CX500 turned sideways and eliminating the shaft drive.

[@joezuppardo9069]

Incorrect, the Honda based on the CX500 was the NS750 not the RS750. The Honda RS750 is actually based off of the early 80's European market 750 Transalp that used a chain drive V-twin air cooled 750 engine. There's a big difference between the two bikes.

[@truthboomertruthbomber5125]

@@joezuppardo9069 I didn't say the RS was based on the CX. I said the CX was the first Honda V twin flat tracker that Honda fielded. Without the CX as a proof of concept Honda never produces the RS.

[@georgegould667]

Flat Track Racing without the broad-slide and the sound , of the BSA , Triumph, Harley Davidson

[@cam3002]

Great discussion. IMHO, there will still be those who want to optimize their engine and set-up and race others. The nature of the engine might change significantly but those of us who like to tinker will find a way to tinker. I recall clearly with EFI was becoming more common place in new cars and the rumors about the death of car racing and hot rodding were everywhere, but we learned how to tune EFI and still race.

[@villiamo3861]

Excellent comment.

[@GTMarmot]

Thank you for another great episode

[@bretloyd8097]

Suggestion for a show subject - "Kevin Cameron"

[@varieze117pj7]

Remember Kenny Roberts and the soon to be outlawed TZ750 at Indy? The Rotax short tracker? Typical AMA.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

NO !

[@richardnowels]

Excellent talk. Really enjoying.

[@iancraig6070]

It's my bat and my ball syndrome from the AMA. The AMA are head in the sand luddites.

[@davidbanks1193]

As a follow-on episode, how about a discussion/prognostication regarding which production-based engine (modified as allowed under the new AFT rules) you anticipate may predominate as "racer for the masses" in American Flat Track racing going forward? This may be a period of incredible opportunity for the next Cook Neilson. Obviously, Yamaha has a big head start, but I'm not aware of their being willing to sell a GYT Kit to convert a production engine to race-ready. Werner's Kawasaki engine seems to be senescent. KTM is progressing very slowly. Bromley's Honda has not done well. What about the Suzuki GSX-8S? Aprilia 660? Thanks again--

[@joezuppardo9069]

Bromley is no longer racing the Honda. Nobody has built a GSX8 version of the Suzuki for AFT at this time. Rumor has it two are being built for next year 2025. Briar Baumans KTM 790 is the only competition for the Estenson Yamaha at this time. No other KTM's are even close.

[@robsnodgrass915]

It took miguel Duhammel to put the VR on a podium against actual competition, 30 years ago. Just shows you how great he was.

[@robert-wr6md]

Emotional from Mark, I felt that.

[@StephenJohnson-jr5hp]

"wish without fulfillment" American Flat Track. Thank you for sharing. Ride Free

[@peterjones7935]

I recall reading in Cycle magazine about the introduction of the HD XR750 - that installing two front cylinder heads was illegal under AMA rules, but the consensus was that the engine wouldn't really be competitive and so the AMA looked the other way.

[@StephenJohnson-jr5hp]

It's time, sooner than most people know, and sooner than people who know care to admit. EV's are our near future and flat track is the best place to showcase, educate and build platform loyalty.

[@jgoogleheim8880]

I really got interested in AFT racing in 2017 when Jared and Brad and Bryan rode the Indian FTR750. Went to the 1/2 mile race in upstate NY that year that Jared won and he later won the GNC. Just saw Jared win his record 10th GNC in September (via streaming). Dallas Daniels, who was doing great on his Yamaha broke his femur and opened the door for the tenacious Mees. So for the Supertwins we had the great earlier Harley XR750 dynasty and the recent Indian FTR750 dynasty and an almost Yamaha beginning. Seems to me that it takes a long development time for Yamaha to catch the Indian. Will putting the best riders on "production" bikes make things more interesting? Can the new rules be enforced? We'll see.

[@bretloyd8097]

Cool. . . . It's Thursday morning. . .

[@ogasi1798]

really great show

[@CHRnorton]

Colors, kinda like the early"big", boat metal flake Blue, Red and Gold Commandos or the simple Screaming Yellow models, Of course how fast they were didn't hurt.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

WTF ?

[@johnnydeadmond7228]

I've always felt that Harley was the best and worst thing for flat track racing. They probably saved it many times, but they also retarded its growth by rules restrictions. Indian and the growth of the 450 class has been great for the sport.

[@browngreen933]

This controversy goes back to the earliest days of motorcycle racing described then as "stock" vs "factory specials."

[@dukecraig2402]

Not really, as Kevin rightly corrected what's his name here AMA Flat Track isn't about having to use motorcycle's that "are based on production bikes that are street legal". As Kevin stated it's based on a minimum of 400 bikes being produced and sold to the public, not street legal, but a minimum of 400 racing bikes, well it used to be entire bikes until the early 80's when they relaxed the rules and only required engine's to be made and that had to do with the AMA not being able to verify entire bikes being made by foreign manufacturers, the AMA didn't have the kind of money to have inspectors travel all over the word to verify bikes like they could here in America and guarantee that they were shipped "unmolested", so to speak, all the way to America, for years it was obvious that some foreign manufacturers were building bikes on custom chassis that weren't made by them, the AMA not being able to assure they weren't doing that just went ahead and in the early 80's did away with entire bikes having to be made by the manufacturers and only started requiring 400 motors a year. The history of flat track racing and it's rules go way back, for instance the rule limiting OHV engine's to 500cc that everyone thinks the AMA came up with in the 60's to give Harley an advantage over the British manufacturers was actually enacted in 1932 when there was over 130 motorcycle manufacturers in America and no one was bringing motorcycle's from overseas to race on oval county fair horse racing tracks, 1932 was also the height of the great depression, so early on the rules having been laid down to keep someone from coming along and making some kind of a super engine that could price everyone else out of racing was the idea, they always wanted flat track racing to be about the most talented riders and not who had the most money. Harley was so good at it throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's simply because they were the only people left with roots in the sport that went back to the earliest days and simply knew more about it, everyone else came along from overseas thinking flat track was simply a matter of making a more powerful engine and that should win when in fact the way the chassis are set up and everything else is entirely different from other forms of racing and Harley, thanks to the years of experience of Dick O'Brian, simply knew more about it than anyone else, they were also the only manufacturer willing to stick with a flat track racing program, "win on Sunday and sell on Monday" to everyone else was Superbikes, not flat track, so their corporate boss's didn't want to fund factory flat track programs for the years it'd take to build up enough experience to win.

[@filobeto1691]

@dukecraig2402. All you have now are memories of faded glory. At the last National of the season at Lake Ozark, I watched an XR finish 8th an the XG finish 13th. You claim Harley knows more about flat track racing than anyone else. Sure the XG sure proves that…. Others have mentioned the TZ and RS. You will have some excuse how those bikes are not relevant to the discussion. Here’s one more to prove a point. Ron Woods BMW that one a National in 2016. To bad Ron has passed so he could once again explain how HD made the AMA put HD stickers on Rotax powered framers!

[@browngreen933]

​@@dukecraig2402 Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It's still the same basic issue. Early on "street legal" wasn't even a concept. "Stock" vaguely meant whether or not the machine was in the factory catalog (production) as opposed to something radically modified or a factory special. At first racing classification went by vehicle weight and horsepower, not displacement. But that led to so much controversy that they turned to engine displacement classes around 1908. That helped some but trying to determine stock (production) vs racing specials continued to be a problem over the decades and they're still looking for a solution it seems. Like you say, now it's just engines they're concerned with, not entire bikes. Things changed alot after Class C started around 1932 and the professional factory racing teams were phased out. By then the only factory special was the WLDR that was originally sold with road trim so that's probably where the notion of "road legal" comes in. You're right that the 500cc/750cc limits for OHV vs sidevalve engines had nothing to do with Brit bikes as that rule came way before they were a factor in American racing. That's just a myth. Just like having to ride your Class C bike to the race is a myth. But by the early 1930s there were only 3 makers left - HD, Indian and Ex/Hen - not 132. If you count up all the motorcycle makes built since the beginning of the industry in 1900 it might amount to 132 brands. That's probably what you're thinking of. Thanks.

[@georgegould667]

Flat Track needs WOO recipe !

[@dougiequick1]

35:56 Kevin sums up an idea and then? crickets

[@whammerjammer1562]

I love my Victory motorcycles! I'm not interested in the Indian brand (not my style). But, it is sad to see the FTR750 die. I really liked that bike. I wished and hoped they'd make a road-going 750. The FTR 1200 is just too big.

[@tedecker3792]

A 750 for would be killer. Americans have always been obsessed with “bigger is better”, witness modern pickup trucks, or parade floats as Kevin calls them.

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

​@@tedecker3792 I about died when he said that. A couple months back I was in South Carolina for a wedding, and the rental car my uncle carted us around in was an Audi Q7. One day, out of pure curiosity, I popped the hood and discovered I could barely see the turbocharged four cylinder down in there! Parade float indeed, but far less attractive!

[@ZonkerRoberts]

"I respect your dipstick" is my new favorite catchphrase!

[@battleax002]

So they don’t want one model dominating the series……. How many championships have been won by Big Orange and Black in the last 75 years? There is so much pandering to BO+B, so much rule making to make this “American Icon” win, it makes me dislike them and the governing bodies even more. Flat track to the bagger class in MotoAmerica, I won’t even watch it. “We can’t let that upstart company that’s willing to put some modern technology in their bikes win!” I’ve owned 67 motorcycles, currently have 8, 3 Kawasaki Triples, a 1966 Triumph T120TT, a YZ250F, a Z900RS, a Kawasaki KLX300 and an Indian Springfield. Never had a Milwaukee bike, don’t suppose I ever will.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

There were a lot of orange and black shirts in the grandstands, now they are empty.

[@battleax002]

@@kurtfoulke5130 which may be the entire logic behind all of this, but if Orange and Black are become unpopular due to other factors……. There could be some foot-shooting going on…..

[@davechavis4275]

I miss ascot on saturday nights.

[@ccrider00]

Friday flat track--- Saturday sprint cars--- Ascot was great back in the day for sure !👍👌

[@StephenJohnson-jr5hp]

Next time I visit Poland, I'll be looking for a VR1000.

[@robsnodgrass915]

Harley can be unbeatable! If no one's racing but Harley.

[@markbrown-us4xe]

Enjoy this information and would have benefit in my younger years from this. Still liked ice racing and would watch some big name riders get spanked. Your shows forward thinking always sets me back. But like a good crash, I learned something. Thanks.

[@yorkchris10]

The only circle track race I've been to was an ice race in an arena after hockey season. The main reason I went was the new can-am Sonic 500 four stroke would be there. I' ve seen indoor electric FT racing. I've also seen FT combined with jumps and right turns, but I can't remember what it was called. Are there more than AMA sanctioned events?

[@rangerlongshot]

Dirt track with right and left hand turns and a jump is called TT (from Tourist Trophy) racing. There used to be a couple National TT races every year including 100 lap (!!!) TT at the Ascot Half Mile.

[@yorkchris10]

@@rangerlongshot thank you!

[@wctyre49]

I think the XR 750 is the most beautiful motorcycle ever made , why it was not offered in a street legal version I'll never know , I would have bought one , the sportster is close ,.

[@svgs650r]

Yep, except for the engine, chassis, suspension, wheels, etc...

[@FJB752]

Jim Czekala THE DYNO KING of Dyno Tech Research, died 9-23-24, he was the best. RIP Jim.

[@knucklehed54]

Did they ever put fairings on the FTR and road race it?

[@kurtfoulke5130]

Yes, in motocross

[@Scott-sb1xi]

Sounds like the roads in PA.

[@dukecraig2402]

Oh yea, I'm from Pa and I tell people all the time "I was born and raised in the middle of the greatest road course in history, the Appalachian mountains". And why my bone headed friends always wanted to go into town and drag race from stop light to stop light is something that always mystified me.

[@h.nguyen4193]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the FTR 1200.

[@duc06820]

TZ 750 tires were called "Rim Protectors"

[@firstielasty1162]

On the bore/stroke ratio and torque (6:00)...if you assume some given cylinder pressure, and vary bores and strokes, keeping the exact same displacement, and simply use half the stroke as a lever arm, you get.....the same torque! Admittedly, I am ignoring some other factors- rod angle, changing of mechanical advantage due to crank pin position change relative to cylinder centerline, etc, but interesting to me anyway. I wonder if the myth of undersquareness creating torque comes from the fact that low rpm power is all you're likely to easily get from such engines, as, for any given displacement, long stoke/small bore limits valve and breathing area. I have an old GMC pickup, 1960, with a 305 v6. It is oversquare, in GMC literature of the time, they advertised that as helping low rpm torque. Could have fooled me, as it does not have much at any rpm, but is reliable and interesting. I've always liked the rs750, and followed the rule bending to limit it's advantage in the 80s, can't believe they are doing it again. H-D likes handouts (700cc+ tariff?)...it goes against the tough, independent image they seem to want. I guess it's just an affectation...talk tough, and many will believe I am! Then Honda or Indian come along- the plan falls apart when they get punched in the face. I do like xr750s, though.

[@billyarsenault1970]

Who cares what day it is- Theres still no ice on the roads thats all i know.

[@vxe6vxe6]

The next episode will be about the Honda RS 750, right?

[@ericalger5003]

TGIW!!!! Wednesday is the day of the week when the world's GREATEST podcast drops!!!!

[@daniellang6112]

Reduce the bore on the Pan America?

[@dukecraig2402]

"Cut the gray wire" Ok, I'll go ahead and say it, Buell.

[@lorimcquinn3966]

So is the HD XR750 also Outlawed?

[@vne5195]

It's unfortunate what HD has become. Thank god for the resurrection of Indian.

[@user-fd9kz8sd9t]

top podcast

[@stewart8127]

That Yamaha Bolt punched out to 750

[@bugbomb8048]

I absolutely despise H D because for their involvement in the 100% Tariff on all Japanese bikes....

[@RacerX6270]

Dirt track is circling the drain. Less riders and spectators every year.

[@tedecker3792]

Long gone are the days when there were local short track races every weekend.

[@jbradkilpatrick]

I came to this sport because of Indian’s entry into it. I fell in love with flat track racing at that time. To me, flat track racing has to have Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycle involved. It’s the heritage of the sport. But now, there will be no Indian and Harley-Davidson is essentially nonexistent in the sport also. With that being the case, I feel like I won’t be following too closely now. I definitely won’t be paying for FloRacing to watch it, which is WAY overpriced when you only care for watching AFT on the service. Maybe down the road, both brands are there again, which the new rules leave the door open for, but for now, it won’t be that interesting without American brands in the most American motorcycle racing of all. There’s a reason King of the Baggers is blowing up. There’s a reason American Flat Track was blowing up around 2017, 2018 and 2019. Americans want to see that rivalry.

[@colelambert4557]

#MAKEAMERICAN750VTWINSGREATAGAIN

[@thehuubster]

Maybe an unpopulair opinion but people really wanted that torqie ftr750 for the street. Me being a younger (street) rider would defo buy that as a streetbike. A 1200cc twin for the street was fun and all but almost to big and heavy for starting riders. I think Indian would have a true weapon both in racing under the newrules and as a new production motorcycle. If they would just be willing to downsize the ftr1200 to 750cc. Maybe keep the piston area and stroke the same as the true race model. As long as its torqie, fun to ride and close to the racing model people definatly also the younger audience would like such a model. You only have to look at the popularity of the MT-05/MT-07 series of Yamaha both in the states and the EU. (Where we are limited to hp asstarting riders.)

[@copperaudio9664]

If Harley or Indian could make 425 pound street bike, I and many others would buy a bazillion of them. The current offerings is ridiculously heavy. If you're gonna sell Wolf tickets looks you better back them up in production.

[@Hammerfrenzy24]

You ever actually ride an ftr1200?

[@richardleary9085]

Indeed. My stripped down sr 500 makes my heritage feel like the "Road Dog"

[@nbowling10trio]

V&H is some sneaky fellers😂

[@DJPTEXAS]

I love Flat Track and hope it is always around, however even board track racing was very popular at one time..... Race tracks of all kinds are closing as the properties are worth more than the venues... sad.

[@craigpennington1251]

In other words, it was banned because it beat the pants off everybody. This crap is just like nascar, just full of it man.

[@dukecraig2402]

You really should listen to the podcast, they explain that Indian was allowed to build a racing engine that didn't have X amount of production parts and didn't have things like a provision for a starter etc etc like everyone else has to, but they put a limit on how many years they could run it before they had to change their production engine so it had the same features, like a changeable external flywheel and other things the racing engine had but the production engine didn't. In a nutshell they allowed them to run an outlaw engine and gave them time to change their production engine so the production engines and racing engines were as close as everyone else's always had to be, the AMA allowed them to do it to spice things up wanting to draw fans to the sport, and in all fairness allowing Indian to run a specialized racing engine on a promise that in a couple years they'd change their production engine so it would homologate was wrong, they shouldn't have done it in the first place because all it did was get everyone screaming that the AMA adjusted the rules to ban them, like you're doing here, when in fact what really happened is the AMA allowed them to run an outlaw engine and then when the time they gave them was up and they hadn't changed their production engine to have the same features as the racing engine it was outlawed, they shouldn't have let them run an outlaw engine in the first place and all this controversy wouldn't be going on.

[@bradshuput7766]

The problem, IMO, with production based flat track racing is that 750 is no longer a popular production motor size for street bikes. Where 750's were once BIG BIkES, now 900's are mid size. And I don't think bigger motors won't really be good for flat track racing.

[@russellwalker3837]

this was all suppose to have been done in 2019. then came the new class, aka super twins. this would allow indian ftr 750 to continue. harley's biggest issue has been to many past beta males the last few years running the company worrying about everything but motorcycles.

[@grooviefan]

Any reason they couldn’t have put restrictors on the Indians to level the performance : to avoid making the bikes obsolete ??

[@ElliottIverson]

Wood-Rotax.

[@seldomseen7835]

Hay guys Honda modified a CX500 for flat track racing they turned the engine 90 degrees and increased the capacity by 50% this evolved into the NS750 and wasn’t fast enough. (The pommey nick name for the CX is MAGGOT) The evolution continued and the RS750 was born which they won with for several years. It amazes me that to beat Harley Honda had to vertually copy it. V Twins rule. 750 Roundcase Ducatist Wobbels the mad Aussie.

[@barneyjensen4470]

I had the good fortune to see Freddie Spencer race the CX based Honda prototype at Ascot. He had his hands full. After I saw him in the pits and said something and he just sort of grunted. Didn't look to pleased. Kind of like, well them wanted me to race it and paid me. He fought that thing tooth and nail to the finish line. I forget who won etc. but they were flat out flying, almost violence. I do miss the days of feet up turn entry back or drift it in with big rooster tails. It seems now more like pavement racing with the tires now. But hey, that was 50 plus years ago !

[@TheBluesking17]

Harley Davidson and the AMA are joined at the hip. Makes me sick.

[@johnpeterson6510]

Do these new rules that make the FTR 750 illegal for 2025 also make the XR 750 illegal? Sammy Halbert still races his, is it going to legal? I went to the 2016 Santa Rosa Mile. This the season final, the points were down to the wire with Brian Smith and Jared Mees. Joe Kopp was on a new Indian and it was fast. Brian was fast. Jared Mees was Jared Mees. And there was Brad Baker, fast in practice on the high line with an XR 750. In his heat, he broke. Brad pulled out his backup XR and blew everyone away in the Semi. For the final, Joe and the Indian were top qualifier, Brian and Jared were on the front front row too. Brad was way in the back. Joe took the lead, the Brian got by on his Kawasaki, Jared took awhile to figure out what worked for him. Brad was running up by the hay bales and was fast. At the checkered it was Brad by close to a half a lap on Brian, Jared was right there too for 3rd. An awesome race and championship. Sadly, we also lost 2 youngsters that day, Charlotte Kainz and Kyle McGrane.

[@TheBlueDogMan]

I do believe the XR 750 will be illegal with the new rules. The XG is going to have to be the new race bike. Someone who has more knowledge please correct me if I’m wrong.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

Try to pay attention, Harley-Davidson does not make a XR750 or a XG750 so yes, they are both outlawed !

[@jamespolucha8790]

They did this to Honda when they won the championship and no one could beat it AMA made Honda do so much to the bike so Harley could beat it they just pulled out said see ya

[@terryboehler5752]

I think there will always be a core of builders because thats all there's ever been. A small chunk of the population that is driven to experiment and explore. That chunk is there because of genes. They cant help it.

[@cosmiccharlie8294]

Indian needs to put that bike on a diet and make a true scrambler out of it. No wink and nod to touring and off-road. Something you can head out of town on and hit the gravel roads. Powerful and nimble and affordable without all the do-dads.

[@mxbadboy263]

I quit going to flat track racing when it was all harleys on the line. I remember when the ama made a rule that the engine had to be a v twin. Goodbye honda, yamaha, kawasaki and other brands

[@danmoore3224]

Harly got the government to make Kawasaki change the configuration of the Moter in the 1500 Vulcan v twin because it had a better sound & outperformed them! Harly Crybabies could not keep pace due to lack of R D investment & firing Eric Bulle, the best thing to ever happen for Harly!

[@1bulletaway]

So many very important pieces of information missing here, along with the comments. Some good info in the discussion, but really incomplete. The FTR is getting banned ALONG WITH THE XR. And the FTR being banned has almost nothing to do with HD. Have there been questionable rules and changes in the past involving HD and flat track… sure. But just because it was the case before doesn’t make it the case now.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Peugeot introduced a 500cc gear-driven DOHC 8 valve parallel twin engine in 1913. What is this talk of the "modern era"?

[@StephenJohnson-jr5hp]

Dear Indian 1940's, 50's, it's dealer network and support. Indian today? Making the same mistake and not learning, making it a choice.

[@edwinbrown3303]

If HD can't win, change the rules, I want a street model.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

You are showing your intelligence. Harley-Davidson is not in AFT

[@christophercurry7410]

I simply will quit watching AFT, just like I did NASCAR. Racing is about innovation. Sanctioning Bodies are about politics.

[@mitchell-wallisforce7859]

Amen to that.

[@kurtfoulke5130]

😢😫😭😭😭🤧

[@colelambert4557]

#MAKEAMERICANFLATTRACKGREATAGAIN

[@edwardhegarty750]

If the rules say production bikes only then fuel injection will be retained. After all, there is no production bike that still has a carburetor.

[@artemusp.folgelmeyer4821]

Suzuki DRZ400

[@rcnelson]

I'm a bit interested in the topic, but I don't have time to spend an hour watching this video instead of the ten minutes I'd spend reading its transcript. When did we become a picture-driven nation instead of one that reads?

[@WBD86]

👌👌👌👌

[@ralphwatten2426]

I lost interest in flat track about 20 years ago. I went through the Honda semi black balling and finally allowing other Japanese twins to compete in their own1000cc class. So long Harley, take your crutches and go. Harley just can't move along with progress.

[@stewart8127]

@@ralphwatten2426 they could have when they owned MV Augusta but Willie G is a Greedy old bastard. That's why I'll hate HD forever. That Pan America Engine is Made in China. What an insult to the Vietnam Vets who bought Their AMF foreign parts bikes.