Are Liquid Cooled Cables The Best Solution For High Power DC Fast Charging? | Episode 66

[@anthonyc8499]

Watching Branden getting his brain picked about DC fast charging is just pure gold. That guy has so much fascinating information about charging and is worth a whole series of interviews on a plethora of topics.

[@brandenflasch]

Glad you find it valuable!

[@ArtiePenguin1]

Great conversation, I look forward to more technical videos on DC fast charging in the future.

[@brandenflasch]

Thank you for having me on yet again! I am curious if most EV drivers even realize when cables are cooled or not, especially as some of the newer cooling systems are a lot quieter and the power delivery is often at parity

[@anthonyc8499]

I have so many questions. This conversation left me wondering if chargers could go with a safe but higher output when the thermistor fails. Say something like 80-100kW instead of 36kW? Jordan mentioned pricing of charger installs and that got me curious if there's an appreciable cost difference between 150kW stations and ones that are higher. Point of sale failures are a problem. Can credit card magnetic strip and chip readers be eliminated altogether in lieu of contactless payment (tap to pay)? Would that even be helpful? In your opinion, is it better to have two stations of 4 x HPCs spaced 50 miles apart or one station of 8 x HPCs spaced 100 miles apart? Does it make sense for EA to drop the dual charging cables and just go with a single head, a la Tesla Superchargers? Are HPC station operators still needing to recruit and pay hosts or are businesses now savvy to the benefits of having a station onsite and are courting operators?

[@brandenflasch]

@@anthonyc8499 sounds like we have some future episodes to record!

[@nishiki393]

@@brandenflasch I certainly hope so... Branden's knowledge in this area is fantastic and super interesting.

[@JackRussell021]

I was aware that failed cooling usually resulted in really horrible charging experiences. I hadn't really contemplated the notion of not doing liquid cooled cables at all - I get that the complexity runs up the costs, and are yet another point of failure. I guess the next question is whether it makes sense to make this a regional thing. In other words, in the so-called snow-belt, not use liquid cooled cables at all and keep them in places like Arizona where it is really hot. And perhaps another question - what is more effective in keeping cables cool? Liquid cooling, or a canopy over the charger to keep the direct sunlight off the charger?

[@bruceflyr7359]

Fascinating topic, Brandon did a good job explaining.

[@skyemalcolm]

Such a great conversation. Thank you, Brandon for adding a lot to this conversation. Jordan was a great facilitator and Kyle was the voice of the customer just wanting max speed. I really learned a lot and enjoyed the discussion.

[@robert5008]

Great podcast guys.

[@ProfessorHamer]

The challenge with these cables is the legal touch temperature limit for the external surfaces. Also don’t forget that black cables in full sun in high ambient temperatures would be over this limit without current…

[@JackRussell021]

A different colored cable might do better. Or perhaps a canopy over the charger to keep the direct sunlight off the thing.

[@willtheelectrician8184]

Hello gentlemen. So, I work for a large electrical contractor who's footprint covers all of the southeast & more, we service Electrify America's charging infrastructure (via a 3rd party) as well as other charging providers. There's a whole lot of unique challenges with this new technology, if yall want to pick an Electrician's brain on the matter, HMU.

[@ProfessorHamer]

Tesla doesn’t appear to use oil as the coolant, in the photos of the damaged cables at a supercharger v3 station they appear to use coolant tubes of water ethylene glycol.

[@moony2703]

I wonder if the thinner Tesla cables are inspired by stuff created for the Tesla Semi because it would make sense for them to be trying to design cables that can handle higher loads at a thinner width if they want to build fast charging cables for semis that are still easy for people to manage. This perhaps could be a way for them to test the tech out on a smaller scale maybe? By getting field data on how things work before they make bigger chargers. I think you were onto somewhere there at the end about how certain things might make sense for fleets but not passenger vehicles because I think fleets is where a lot of the ev transition is heading. All those companies running the numbers realising the cost savings long term and wanting in, plus the nice eco label they can stick on it.

[@FutureAzA]

So much left to figure out. Seems like it's a settled tech, but apparently it isn't?

[@brandenflasch]

Very far from settled tech.

[@mrmiliman]

Problem with may charges is that the implement the liquid cooling only to the conector/junction and the cooling loop doesn't run through the middle if the DC cables like the way Tesla's cooling loop does.

[@SecondLifeDesigner]

I wonder if graphene powder suspended in a liquid could carry a current? Basically have a loop inside the hose and circulate the liquid and graphene through the loop. Graphene itself has the lowest resistance of all matter. But even it did heat up substantially by circulating it to cool it my bet is you could come up with a super thin cable. Might even need to just heat the liquid in cold climates to keep the cable housing nice and flexible.

[@bjcouche1]

I don't think you are going to see air cooled cables going up to and above 500A. Even if the cable is thick enough to handle the current, the CCS pins, both on the plug and the inlet, may overheat. Remember that the CCS plug was never designed with this high current in mind, and also that it was developed by SAE, a trade group comprised of engineers from legacy ICE automakers. To get faster charging, with the current CCS connector, the best solution is to go to an 800V battery.

[@callistoscali4344]

That is why battery swap should have been the way to go.