7 Sequels That Made The Original Game Worse

When a game has a great story out, surely it's brilliant forever? Not when a sequel comes along and undermines some beloved moment or key plot point. Join us to discover seven sequels that somehow managed to make the original game worse, and be sure to subscribe for a new video like this every single week!
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[@justafanofz]

My issue with Lucy wasn’t that she was a double agent, it was that there was no way to even see that it was going to happen, even in brotherhood. It just came out of nowhere with no foreshadowing. Thus, it made no sense.

[@kiracodinson]

Only the red footprints that lead right to her, but that could be a coincidence.

[@justafanofz]

@@kiracodinson when did those show up?

[@justafanofz]

@@khamjaninja. explains why she had no dialogue then

[@Simba3696]

@@khamjaninja. Isn't Nolan North more expensive? Or what about Edward's VA Matt Ryan?

[@yannym4605]

The best double agents in history are never known.

[@300IQPrower]

Prototype 1: The real Alex Mercer was nothing but a terrorist, yet the “monster” that took his identity as a new Alex Mercer as a result of the original’s actions ended up discovering the humanity the human with his name never possessed, saving the city and likely entire world the original tried to destroy. Prototype 2: Alex Mercer is now edgy Wesker because he’s upset about an ex girlfriend from a spinoff comic.

[@featheredglass]

still salty about that

[@300IQPrower]

@@featheredglass oh same, literally didnt bother even finishing prototype 2 over it lol

[@MrChaoticreign]

Thank you from saving me playing Proto 2.

[@300IQPrower]

@@MrChaoticreign it’s just more of the same so you wont miss anything. Less of a power fantasy, but the trade off is more actually well designed challenges. Collecibles are still annoying but not remotely as bad as finding the last bloody landmark in the first one- Basically get it for 10 or less or dont bother and only get it if you wamt more but are tired of the first. A couple npcs are actually quite nice, if anything Alex really is the worst aspect and even as someone who didnt play the first for story, it upset me seeing a character unexpectedly grew attached to just ruined like that

[@Gentleman_Orange]

@@MrChaoticreign It's actually good and have some plus. The new graphics are a nice tweak. I really like the weight of the character, some don't. It brings more realism and was giving more impact to the power impression. It was more enjoyable to move in the 2. The 1 is more arcade, still good. And just the sticky bomb is worth playing the 2. seriouly, just that weapon makes you play a lot. Who cares about the story in that type of game. The purpose is too to do what we want, in a gory way. The 2 makes it good.

[@MuchWhittering]

The problem with Lucy being a Templar is how poorly it's executed. It's only revealed in Revelations' DLC, and then in 3 the characters just magically know.

[@cuckoophendula8211]

Ugh, and what really irked me was how Desmond at the end of the first game saw Lucy as blue when he suddenly got eagle vision out of nowhere. How are we supposed to make of that with this retcon? That Lucy is the one special case who could fool eagle vision throughout all of history? That maybe Desmond just sucks at using eagle vision since it's his first time? Or that yeah...this was a really poorly executed retcon that missed this little detail. And yeah, I totally agreed with how inelegantly they did this in the Revelations DLC. While there was no foreshadowing in Brotherhood of her being a double double agent, the Revelations DLC was snuck in to "retroshadow" as an explanation to her true intentions. If they wanted to stop paying Kristin Bell, they could have killed her off by using a better explanation (like if Juno required some sort of human sacrifice or something, I dunno)

[@kain6996]

@@cuckoophendula8211 well I mean Ezio’s dad got hard core betrayed so either he never used eagle vision on his supposed ally’s or it doesn’t work like that

[@JoelPerry1]

I missed the dlc too so it was a double shock when I played 3

[@MrPepperJams]

@@kain6996 could Ezio's father use eagle vision? I thought he said to Ezio "use your special sight/gift" or something when telling Ezio to take the assassin outfit/blade and the letters, which gave me the impression only Ezio knew how to use it, again just my interpretation so could be wrong.

[@rrathore98]

@@MrPepperJams I doubt Giovanni Auditori even had Eagle Vision, because he lacked the concentration of Isu genes/genetics. Ezio got Isu genes from his father and mother's maternal lines, I'm guessing. I have no idea if you can even get Isu genes from the paternal line (probably can). Giovanni would have been pretty darn OP if he had Eagle Vision like Ezio.

[@Tattletale97]

Originally, Lucy was not planned as a traitor, but Kristen Bell only signed 3 game, and She want a raise for the fourth game, but the game director at the time don't want to, so they kill her off in the worst way possible.

[@kap1618]

And why didn't they just replace her voice actor?

[@carlsiouxfalls]

Spartans are like Jedi: you think you got them all, but more just keep popping up.

[@KickyFut]

Also, Spartans are like Saiyans... It's always more fun to have more than just the one!😁

[@insaincaldo]

Spartans never die, they are just missing in action.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@insaincaldo A tradition that got ruined by the second 343 game.

[@roswynn5484]

Wait, that applies to Pokémon as well I reckon.

[@zicyzacbonanza]

Much like Daleks in Doctor Who.

[@shannonolivas9524]

"The Path must be opened" said Juno "The Path happens to be straight through Lucy's torso"

[@insaincaldo]

The gut is a terrible attempt at a fatal stab wound, sure Desmond was fighting, but come on Juno you didn't even try. The fact that it worked out, was probably only because she went limp on the spot and was just left to bleed out.

[@Mediados]

@@insaincaldo I mean they didnt have medical equipment with them and a hidden blade is relatively long, so if you stab someone with such a blade ot would penetrate the stomach, liver and/or some major veins. Without medical support, a wound down there is lethal.

[@insaincaldo]

@@Mediados Yes, as I said. Sure no one would find her in time, as long as Juno was sure none of the others would try to save her. But if she really wanted her dead, do it right, so noone could.

[@Mediados]

@@insaincaldo I guess since Desmond was resisting there wasnt much time to chose an area

[@stevencossey5403]

Also see Halo 5 for changing who the Reclaimers are from Humans to AI

[@greenhowie]

Ratchet and Clank : A Crack in Time retconned Clank being a mistake who persevered against everything to become a hero - they made it so that he's some sort of time god that was destined for greatness so his journey becomes less inspiring and more just stuff that happened. Plus the machine that makes Clank has a really sweet moment originally where you see it's still proud of him even though he isn't like the other robots and it kinda made me cry as a kid but hey, now he's always supposed to have existed like that and saved the world so there's nothing to be proud of. Yes I needed to vent that. Carry on.

[@TayR0C]

I agree. I really didn't like that story.

[@chillhour6155]

Gotta love when good writing is retconned and replaced with lazy shitty writing

[@lovethatdirtywater78]

You had me until you threw Edgeworth in here. He was never that monster the rumors made him out to be, and the inclusion of the fifth case made it that much more meaningful when he realizes how dangerous of a path he had been going down without his knowledge. It also provides a bridge between Ace Attorney and Justice for All that is a lot less awkward.

[@whitethunder9064]

I completely disagree. I feel the forth case was fine showing his turmoil and why he would "choose death" in the second game. It also shows WHO taught him everything. We didn't need Rise from the Ashes. It was pointless. And made the forth case a bit less impactful. I still like the case, but it didn't need to be there.

[@skycloud4802]

Case 5 is one of the best cases in the first game.

[@DogOfHades]

Yes, I do not know the Ace Attorney games that well, but even I understood that the Edgeworth example was a bad one.

[@megakidicarus4647]

While I feel that it wasn't the best bridge between Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney and Justice for All, I found it at least worked better as a bridge between: Ace Attorney Investigations 1, and 2, and Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney. I still have yet experience Dual Destinies and Spirit of Justice, so I am not fully familiar if/how any of these separate plot-lines are tied together, other than Ema Skye being presented as a secondary character (at least in Ace Attorney Investigations 1, and 2, and Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney)

[@Bane_Amesta]

Rise from the Ashes was deleted from my memory and I won't take any other explanation. Not only because it was indeed there just for the fancy new touch screen, but also how outrageous the case itself was. I still remember how infuriating was to search for a guide, just for this particular case, my brain was fried and bored. Yes to me Ema's existence in the rest of the games is just because of reasons, I don't care anymore (it doesn't matter anyways, her origin story isn't even truly talked on the sequels either)

[@themagicalblingbling]

To be fair, while I loved Lucy, being forced to stab her with absolutely no explanation at the end of Assassin's Creed Brotherhood was a good cliffhanger. However, the reveal in the DLC to Assassin's Creed Revelations that she was, in fact, a double agent, makes absolutely zero sense. Up to that point, the series had shown that eagle vision was a flawless ability to distinguish allies from enemies, going so far as preventing you from seeing both Al Mualim in AC I as well as Uberto Alberti in AC II in eagle vision , as this would ruin the plot twist that they were enemies all along, and showing Niccolò Machiavelli in blue even while he is under suspicion of being a traitor in Brotherhood, leading to the reveal that he has indeed been on your side all this time and is being framed. AC I, however, forces you to see Vidick and Lucy through eagle vision, showing them in red and blue. Hence, AC I shows that Lucie is absolutely without question on your side. Clearly, this was a plot twist they only thought up during the production of one of the later games.

[@Gloomdrake]

Doesn't preventing you from using it on someone prove it's not flawless, though?

[@themagicalblingbling]

@@Gloomdrake No, it shows that the creators carefully considered their options. They were faced with a choice of a) having eagle vision show you the correct colour for these characters, thereby ruining the plot twist, b) having eagle vision show you an incorrect colour, thereby preserving the plot twist but establishing eagle vision as a fallible ability or c) simply only showing these characters in a context where you cannot use eagle vision (such as cutscenes) until such time as the reveal is made, hence both preserving the plot twist AND maintaining eagle vision as a flawless ability. The fact that the creators of the earlier games opted for option c) clearly shows they did, in fact, intend for eagle vision to be flawless.

[@Gloomdrake]

@@themagicalblingbling oh, it was cutscenes? That makes sense

[@sarafontanini7051]

it also doesn't make sense narratively. If she was on the bad guys' side why would she, you know, help Desmon ESCAPE from said bad guys?

[@necrobynerton7384]

​@@sarafontanini7051 maybe because Abstergo was overclocking their subjects and having a hard time finding eden pieces, so Lucy figured that if she joined the assassins, she wouldn't push Desmond too hard with the animus like Vidic and find the eden pieces? (Hell wasn't there dialogue between Lucy and Vidic about this issue?) Besides, wouldn't collecting info from assassins themselves/from source prove useful on how they operate so Abstergo would 1-up them? Double agent much? P.S. I think she could have done a way better job as a double agent, maybe its her first time and hasn't got a good idea on what to do so she is stressed all the time. P.P.S. Definitively out of context with the plot twist, when first time playing the game.

[@Zenlore6499]

Colonel: hears Grey Fox’s gruesome backstory Also Colonel: “That’s f**king badass.”

[@RaphBlade7]

For me, I like to think of the Koopalings as Bowser's adoptive children, with Bowser Jr. being his only biological child!

[@francoishenrileblanc]

I think officially Nintendo said they were his family... I think

[@LugiatheOceanGuardian]

@@francoishenrileblancthey originally were for the classic 2d games-come the New Super series they retconned that into the Koopalings just being the highest ranked Koopas below Jr.

[@darkriot21]

There is of course the Mario world cartoon where they all called him dad too if memory serves

[@DatAlien]

They are all his children, but only Jr. Is the result of Bowser getting pregnant as Bowsette.

[@notsocursed7573]

​@@DatAlien ඞ

[@neonclear8500]

To be perfectly fair, the conviction rate of Japanese criminal courts is 99 percent. I'm not making that up, and I'm not exaggerating. There are probably a lot of prosecutors who have perfect records. And if Phoenix was able to get off even every other client, he would have one of the best records of any defense attorney in the history of the modern Japanese legal system

[@bostonrailfan2427]

it’s a misleading stat since the prosecution won’t bring charges unless they are guaranteed a conviction…if they aren’t then they drop the charges or force a plea on the unfortunate defendants

[@WaterCrane]

It's not necessarily a good thing though. I think a lot of those convictions come from confessions, which may or may not be coerced.

[@neonclear8500]

@@bostonrailfan2427 Wasn't commenting on if their conviction rate was a good thing or a bad thing. Simply pointing out that if Phoenix had an acquittal rate of even 50 percent, he would be a defense attorney god. Other countries that have a conviction rate in the 99 percent range are Russia and China. I don't think anybody is going to try and claim they have fair legal systems with any degree of intellectual honesty.

[@lonewanderer1328]

That means a lot of innocent people are behind bars

[@neonclear8500]

@@lonewanderer1328 Yes, that is absolutely what it means

[@andymcp4752]

CAPCOM: “I beg your pardon but when exactly did you obtain this character development?” Players: “2001 when the game came out?” Judge: “the developers point being?” CAPCOM: “this character development is... outdated your honour” Players: “wh-what?” CAPCOM: “a new character arc was added in 2005, at my request” “Edgeworth was actually always a really cool guy” *broken glass sound effect*

[@AbsolXGuardian]

Things aren't just black and white. Just because you don't forge evidence, it doesn't mean you don't seek victory over truth. Also if Edgeworth had been forging evidence, you wouldn't have won. You were only able to beat Manfred von Karma in Turnabout Goodbyes because you did something completely unexpected- turned his body into evidence. Edgeworth's character arc in Rise From the Ashes was designed to give more detail to why he fakes his death between AA1 and Justice for All. And it doesn't that perfectly. It forces him to question the ideology he inherited from von Karma- which was to have a perfect case. His own morals kept him from forging evidence, but that's not enough. You need to question everything. Edgeworth failed to do that and trusted in authority. This is a big problem in the Japanese justice system. The prosecutor trusts that the police would only come to them with a case that they're sure about, and the Judge trusts that the prosecutor would only come to them with a case they're sure about. This is why there's a 90% conviction rate in Japan. A lot of the justice system is a rubber stamp. That's why RFTA is about police corruption. That's why Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth chose death.

[@300IQPrower]

@@AbsolXGuardian bruh. We know. it’s a joke.

[@tevinanarchy774]

@@300IQPrower yeah but the video treated it like it really butchered his character instead of adding to it so that needed to be said.

[@kyuubinaruto17]

​@@tevinanarchy774 To me that section was less about "butchering Edgeworth's character," and more like massively reducing Phoenix's impact on Edgeworth's character. You're no longer saving an old friend from villainy. You're helping a decent person become more decent.

[@tevinanarchy774]

@@kyuubinaruto17 Edgeworth was still ruthlessly trying to get anyone guilty bro. He confirms this, but he also confirms he just did not ever go as far as to forge evidence. But the thing is people online back in the day on old forums had actually discussed openly whether Edgeworth forged evidence before that new case was added because there was never any real evidence he did, everything Edgeworth ever presented or said always advanced the case and was true. Still Edgeworth was unfucking defeated. Not as long as Manfred but still, this means he probably got some innocent people put in prison. There is a reason there were rumors my man, he may not have cheated but like he said he always made sure he got the guilty verdict in the end with his sheer wit because he had mentality that everyone should be declared guilty so no guilty people would ever get away with a crime. So yeah, he wasn't cheating, but he was always making sure he got that guilty verdict still. This just makes Edgeworth a bit less evil and more forgivable when he is redeemed bro. But your opinion is yours to have.

[@deathbykonami5487]

Someone get Mike a job doing dramatic voice overs, cause that reading from the Halo manual was awesome

[@johnsharplin]

But we need his dramatic voice here!

[@starkravinglad8099]

It reminds me of the narrator for the human campaign in the original warcraft.

[@KrazyKupo]

@@starkravinglad8099 Heh yea I got that vibe as well.

[@SurrealiamPrime]

that was awful the fuck you mean?

[@theultimatederp3288]

Mike's sore throat: Oh god why?

[@rebal180]

Thank you for admitting that Sindel's new backstory is a retcon. The developers themselves are still claiming that it's "new information" that just wasn't talked about in the previous games.

[@espurrseyes42]

That's still a retcon even with that explanation. If it retroactively changes any information we were previously told, it's a retcon. Whether or not it's a good retcon (Frieza destroyed Planet Vegeta, not a meteor, that was a lie he spread so the few remaining Saiyans under is wouldn't oppose him) or a bad retcon (Sindel is just female Shao Khan and a ho because or course she is with that design) is a different story.

[@darthlazurus4382]

They retconned and lied about it. You see nothing but compassion and benevolence frae Sindel once she's freed frae Shao Khan's control. My hope is that this retcon is undone by the in story Retcon Liu Kang made.

[@neckela7097]

@@espurrseyes42 No... Not a retcon actually... A twist that's for sure.. but in previous games she was either dead or brainwashed and we have information about what the good guys think of her... And more particularly what Kitana think of her mother... The twist of her being actually a bad guy couldn't be known until she herself reveals it... Same with Lucy... Not a retcon because no event changed.. she still help everything stands... She just had ulterior motives.. A retcon need to change event not previously unknown motivation...

[@that1fatsumo]

Didn’t things change since mk9 ?

[@rebal180]

@@that1fatsumo For the most part but, the general idea was that the origins were more or less the same. Syndel isn't supposed to be a power hungry shrew that secretly murdered her husband so that Shao Kahn could take his throne. MK9 even claimed that her death was to protect Earth Realm. Shao Kahn still had her under mind control in MK9. I don't think he would've done that if she was always on his side.

[@NinjaNezumi]

I like Phoenix Wright's story because it proves that things aren't always as they appear. I don't believe it counts as a retcon. I think it's more of a lesson not to trust everything a game character tells you.

[@MsKornkitty]

6 games so convoluted we had to make a video explaining why the fans got upset. And Mario.

[@eric_moore-6126]

They weren't even right about what they said about Mario. The Koopalings are Bowser's nieces and nephews.

[@HavocHounds1988]

@@eric_moore-6126 Yep this was confirmed. Bowser Jr. is his only child.

[@eric_moore-6126]

@@HavocHounds1988 Except Andy said Bowser's familial connection to the Koopalings was removed. This is incorrect. That's what I'm saying.

[@HavocHounds1988]

@@eric_moore-6126 True

[@cacs2201]

@@eric_moore-6126 he meant that they WERE his kids in the first games, but this was retconed Which did happen

[@mattball8622]

I'd like to suggest a correction, in that the job of prosecutors in Ace Attorney is clearly to inspire so many rivals-to-lovers fanfics that it breaks Tumblr.

[@BewareTheLilyOfTheValley]

Not gonna lie, I only began watching the anime for that very reason, lol. And then I fell off from watching it because that was too much work and they're not that damn cute anyways, XD!

[@thelaughingrouge]

"Oops who left this giant yaoi paddle here?"

[@Ajehy]

I was reading fanfic before I even played, and that was before Apollo Justice was even on the horizon!

[@digthesechild-bearinghipsb2842]

@@thelaughingrouge "I have to return to my home planet."

[@RanMouri82]

The foe yay is strong with the fanfic crowd.

[@DetectiveThursday]

Someone should mention Chrono Cross and how it's entire story undid the happy ending for half the characters in Chrono Trigger. Sure Crono Gets married to Marle, but then three years later their kingdom burns down. Lucca rescues a child, then her orphanage gets set on fire, Robo gets reincarnated in the future, but as a ridiculous plot device and he doesn't even get a body. Magus got screwed out of appearing in the sequel due to executive meddling, And it's now considered canon that the Masamune Frog worked so hard for is lost forever. I think the only main character that doesn't get shafted is Ayla except... ooops the reptites are alive again.

[@SomeGuy-ty7kr]

to be fair, I think most of those problems would be solved after you fix the timeline in the true ending.

[@drzerogi]

The theme of this video is about recons. None of what you stated is a recon, but a list of things that I also don't like about the story of Chrono Cross.

[@ripscort1896]

​@@drzerogibut also, the title of the video is about sequels making previous videogames worse

[@WhirlyBeepBoops]

Omg yessss They even tacked a "true ending" on to later releases of Trigger to "remind" you that, "screw you, you're actually ruining the world even worse." This, as well as many differences between the two installments, led me to consider Cross a spin-off set in an alternate timeline (or universe or whatever) rather than a sequel. Both stories standing alone are perfectly great, but they just _do not_ mesh.

[@mtaur4113]

Came here for this. In no possible universe does CT deserve any of this follow-up.

[@krzlcve]

seems really messed up when a character defeats her captor and oppressor of earth (?), only to be completely loyal to him in another game

[@Marthe06]

Anyone else willing to accept mission briefings from Mike in that voice even though it's Mike and will probally end up getting us blown up?

[@gecko762]

ESPECIALLY if there are explosions

[@mar_speedman]

Mike: *Finishes mission briefing* Also Mike: "This tape will now explode violently in 10 seconds. Please take a few steps back"

[@Dekead1930]

Absolutely

[@gruggerduggerhoose]

I assume Commander Mike will run a Zapt Brannigan type operation 😅

[@Gloomdrake]

This is a suicide mission, but that's ok

[@AssortedBits]

I have the idea there's more consistency in the attention spans of ADHD toddlers in a sugar rush than those of the WoW writing team.

[@WreckinPoints11]

My ADHD is so bad that when I'm writing, I have to go back and read what I've written to keep the story consistent, but at least I try, damn it.

[@arthas640]

that's why i hate MMO's. Plot takes a backseat to DLC.

[@Boom12]

As much as bad as the comment is, I can't deny how true it is.

[@caffienatedtactician]

I was a toddler like that, so I can confirm

[@H.Liddell]

🤣😆 😂

[@lee_land_y69]

From what Juno said in AC, I had the impression that she made Desmond kill Lucy so she wouldn't hold him back or something. The explanation that she actually was a triple agent seems retrospectively made up.

[@moosedraw3731]

I was genuinely upset by sindel being retconned into a villain again. I love her playstyle and her fighting mechanics, but I was so painfully insulted and angry by them making her a villain again.

[@illizcit1]

Why? I thought it made sense and couldn't understand why she was shown as a victim.

[@moosedraw3731]

@@illizcit1 because her whole story initially was that she was being held captive by shao khan, and her kingdom would be destroyed if she didn’t marry him… he also killed her husband… if that’s not being the victim idk what is lmao.

[@Nyghtking]

@@illizcit1 Well she went from being held hostage and forcefully married to the guy who killed her husband and was threatening to kill her people and wipe out her lands and sacrificing herself to seal off earth-realm from Khan's forces, to having killed her husband herself and readily joined Khan because he was powerful and she thought joining him willingly would allow her to keep her privileges. In other words she went from a complex character who made a heroic sacrifice, to a simple character trope with basic motivations that doesn't care for anyone but herself.

[@MrFutago87]

My first thought was Prototype 2. Prototype 1 was about the main character Alex Mercer discovering his humanity, going from a soiciopathic and amoral scientist to an antihero. Then Prototype 2 came along and made him the villain.

[@juliagoodwin9510]

This, just This. Goddamnit writers!

[@ABadassDragon]

Discovering his humanity? What? Alex is dead, you are playing as The Virus, Alex is just another disguise, one the virus itself bought. And what he did in Prototype 2, he didnt saw it as evil. Once everyone was an Evolved, the world would have peace under one mind. Mercer is one the most powerfull beings ever created and he knew he could make the world "perfect" with that power. What was he supposed to do? Play a hero, saving random civies around new york or strike at the heart of a problem by controlling the world. He is so beyond any human he could easily wipe out everyone of the face of the Earth

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@ABadassDragon Yes and no , if something has the memories and personality and look like someone are they not THAT person? Everybody about them is the same.

[@ABadassDragon]

@@l0sts0ul89 True, but that is the terrifying power of the virus, it can become anyone, but the original dies. Once Alex/Virus realised what it really is it completly trown off anything that mattered to Alex, even Dana, the one person that kept og Alex from going all psycho, as he was already a sociopath before the virus due to his childhood, the only thing keeping him sane being Dana

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@ABadassDragon I vote reboots , Prototype 2 never happened.

[@jprofio]

I always thought the biggest character moment for Miles Edgeworth was supposed to be during the case where you end up sending his stepdad to jail for murdering his real dad

[@mar_speedman]

No! It's working with a trained thief!...'s aspiring daughter...

[@romina141086]

The guy who killed his father was his boss, not his stepdad. I think. It was a prosecutor called Von Karma.

[@jprofio]

@@romina141086 Von Karma adopted Edgeworth after his dad died, so he was his mentor and his stepdad. That's why Miles regularly calls Franziska his sister

[@romina141086]

@@jprofio Oh I didn't remember that part. Ok then.

[@bubbles993]

Step-dad means someone who married your biological mother. Adopted parents are just called adopted parents.

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

Also, the next AC game makes it even worse because you just end up stuck in Desmond's head the whole time and barely get any information on what's going on outside at all. In fact there's no explanation of why you were forced to kill Lucy until the DLC for it... which is where you actually find out that Lucy was a triple agent... in a voice recording.

[@Alloveck]

Even if the Koopalings being Bowser's children was just a baseless change to the English version of the Mario 3 instruction manual, I still think they work better that way than as his minions. There's less loose ends if they're his children, if nothing else.

[@bearcataquatic]

I actually loved edgeworth in rise from the ashes. It was awesome to see edgeworth slowly open up and joining forces with phoenix.

[@illegalmemedealer3549]

Apparently, the koopalings have been confirmed to be Bowser’s adopted kids, while Bowser Junior is his only biological child

[@Penguin_pablo17]

Kinda hard to imagine what that adoption interview looked like

[@dutch_asocialite]

@@Penguin_pablo17 Eh, he could've just done a Batman and abducted them off the street. It worked for the furry, so why not the scalie?

[@kon2175]

That is really nice but the real question is with who did he have his biological child? Peach??

[@dutch_asocialite]

@@kon2175 My guess is he created Junior from magic.

[@lazyryan3766]

@@kon2175 the end of sunshine confirms peach is not bowser jr.'s mother

[@dohnavinbrown5252]

That there were more surviving spartan 2s was established by the books long before halo 5 came out, infact Linda was even on the Pillar of Autumn in Halo CE (she was fatally wounded and kept in cryo so she wouldn't die). Also Fred wasn't the only one that was in the same "training academy" as Chief. They all were, every spartan 2 was. They all trained together after they were all kidnapped by ONI.

[@conscript900]

Thank you! i was hunting the comments to see if anyone pointed that out! you saved me some time.

[@shis1988]

If you need an outside source to understand a writing point in a media's plot, it is called ~Lazy Writing~

[@RankorWrathborn]

Technically, she was CLINICALLY dead, but the nature of the Spartan suits protected her brain from immediate decay (though not indefinitely), so MC brought her back to the PoA to cryofreeze her in the hope that they could reach a hospital capable of repairing enough of the physical damage to revive her.

[@SarcyBoi41]

@@shis1988 Nothing in the actual games ever suggests Chief is the last Spartan. Nothing. Heck, the first novel which released _before the first game_ made it clear other Spartans were still alive. Surely what you've said should also apply to the instruction manual probably read by hardly anyone.

[@EternalWarHawk]

Thankfully some else knows what ACTUALLY happened

[@evaluation1169]

I believe Lucy wasn't a Templar because Juno is known as the loki of the Isu being a kind of God of trickery because she is the evil one of the Isu. Juno could have very well just made up everything about Lucy being a Templar just to throw Desmond into a pit of depression making it easier to manipulate him into releasing her in the 3rd game by taking his own life

[@malic_zarith]

The thing I hate about Lucy's death is how Desmond says he somewhat chose to kill her in Assassin's Creed 3. Her being a templar came out of nowhere.

[@yuhannamuhammad7818]

Isn’t that the point of them ? Lol

[@joelrobinson5457]

Partially, he didn't really know what he was doing, however juno was essentially whispering poison into his ear so he didn't really resist

[@Mediados]

„Ok people, we found a mysterious glowing object, we should investigate it before we do anything with it.“ Desmond: T O U C H

[@drake713]

I know for certain that 3 out of my 5 friends would touch it like that too

[@clorkmagnus]

If you see a shiny beautiful object that doesn’t radiate a ton of heat or energy you are most likely to touch it. Ofc if you an archeologist or expert in handling dangerous unidentifiable objects then yeah, you prob think of the unknown risk.

[@Mediados]

@@clorkmagnus Well i mean he knew that they were searching for an ancient artifact with some kind of power or effect. Common sense should have told him not to touch it.

[@clorkmagnus]

The artifact has some sort of hypnotic or mind control effect. Common sense doesn’t work when you mind is under influence otherwise drug or drunk actions won’t be a thing.

[@Mediados]

@@clorkmagnus I believe that could have been explained ingame or sth.

[@Scipio227]

If the Rise from the Ashes revelation that Edgeworth doesn't fabricate evidence was mindblowing, it makes it even more hilarious when Phoenix Wright actually *does* after the initial trilogy

[@Tyler-sy7jo]

Actually, it was as early as Wrath of the Lich King or perhaps even the original game depending on what you believe that retconned how demons work. Mal'Ganis and Balnazzar are both dreadlords that died in Warcraft III. The definite example is with Mal'Ganis where they brought him back in WotLK to be undercover as the leader of the Scarlet Onslaught. Apparently, Frostmourne failed to do the one thing it is super good at (trapping the souls of those it kills) and Mal'Ganis' soul returned to the Twisting Nether where he plotted and schemed his revenge while his body regenerated. Balnazzar, on the other hand, was killed in Frozen Throne where Sylvanas, having enslaved the dreadlord Tichondrius, ordered him to kill Balnazzar after defeating Balnazzar's forces. Balnazzar was revealed to be in disguise as the leader of the Scarlet Crusade in the original World of Warcraft, having survived his fatal encounter. Where whether this is retcon or just dramatic irony gets complicated as they do explain that Tichondrius (who betrays Sylvanas in WotLK) only pretended to kill Balnazzar and Balnazzar only pretended to die. All the drama the two of them presented in WC 3 was apparently just a very well played act. Given dreadlords are experts of schemes and deception, it does make some sense that the whole thing had been an act all along. But I personally think they came up with the "Tichondrius just pretended to kill Balnazzar" when they decided to bring Balnazzar back. For bonus retcon points, Balnazzar was killed by decapitation which was, at the time, "revealed" to be the way to truly kill a dreadlord. Then Balnazzar just came back again in Cataclysm having once again regenerated and took over the Scarlet Crusade again. Edit: And, to be fair, in terms of retconning that the burning crusade had been stopped for good... Frozen Throne had already revealed that the Legion was still alive and well with Kil'Jaeden the Deciever taking the reins.

[@petersimpson4648]

OBJECTION!! Edgeworth's character development didn't simply hinge on whether he used underhanded tactics. He was ruthless in pursuing guilty verdicts, and "playing fair" was an afterthought at best. With the length of his undefeated streak, he most likely sent at least a few innocent souls to prison. Finding out that he never cheated to win doesn't change the fact that he didn't care about the truth. It only gives him the slightest edge in being redeemable.

[@Timeward76]

If anything, it shows he realized he was heading down a very bad road.

[@emilykreouzi1340]

Shaun is the best! But I never realised that the reason they might have killed off Lucy was to no longer have to pay Kristen Bell... It would explain why the actual reveal was in the head of Desmond while he is literaly pure data, with no room for dramatic reveals or betrayals

[@TheEndlessBlade00]

why not pay her?

[@Gigawood]

@@TheEndlessBlade00 because she’s a Hollywood A-lister...expensive. :-/

[@TheEndlessBlade00]

@@Gigawoodthat makes sense.

[@shadowmoon1657]

Why not hire another VA?

[@cacs2201]

@@shadowmoon1657 because people notice that and tend to hate this kind of stuff

[@pausetimemugen6301]

Frank West and Barnaby in Dead Rising 4, those characters can never be fixed without a reboot.

[@hairypancake]

They did my boy Frank dirty, they evidently mind-swapped him with an entirely different character.

[@nympseudonym]

What, no mention of Chrono Cross? The crushing reveal that all the work you did to save the future was actually bad and wrong, has stuck with me for decades.

[@finnover9781]

I just prefer to imagine that Sindel being evil in MK11 is all Kronika's fault. We know she's fiddled with the timelines before, who's to say she didn't fiddle with Sindel's personality too?

[@BJGvideos]

Same.

[@thunderstudent]

That is the only canonical explanation that I will accept! I hate this retcon so much!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I can actually lend support to this theory. Multiverse Theory is a b***h, you know... that explains why Moon Butterfly snapped in SvtFoE. Typical.

[@braystar8578]

Except that this Sindel is the same from MK9 and X. It's just the MK writers being hacks, which they have been since 9 but really fucked it in 11. What a terrible game.

[@marhawkman303]

@@braystar8578 um some of the art shows Sindel as a Revenant.... which... may or may not act the same as they did when alive.

[@psbox362]

Fred, Kelly and Linda are all from the Halo novels, first introduced in Fall of Reach. Kelly is actually Chief's oldest (surviving) friend, having known her since they were both kids, freshly kidnapped for the Spartan-II program. In the novels, Linda was actually critically wounded and was left frozen on the Pillar of Autumn until she could get medical treatment. All the while, Fred and Kelly were a part of another team of Spartans who were off doing some other missions that prevented them from dying on Reach.

[@mrperez3084]

Wasn't the novel released before Halo ce?

[@johnshade5066]

Truth be told I liked the books more than the games. There's just so much to the lore and universe that the books can really flush it out in a way the games really can't.

[@antongrahn1499]

@@mrperez3084 The first one, The fall of reach, was. It differs quite a lot from the game.

[@GrimmShadowsII]

@@johnshade5066 I only ever really played the first game, which don't get me wrong was a decent enough game but never understood why everyone thought was so great, but I've read 4 of the books or something and I agree they're much better.

[@zoarsnowpaw3549]

Fred and Kelly were on Reach but they survived reaches glassing by heading to castle base and hiding inside later to be rescued with Dr. Halsey by John in the book First Strike, Linda was on the Pillar of Autumn in Cryo but was released in space when the pillar of Autumn crashed on Installation 04 due to her injuries, it sort of makes since why in the manual that it would say the John is the last spartan II since all others were considered dead on reach except for the ones on secret missions that John wouldn't have known about like Gray and Black team as well as the ones that were considered MIA from halo wars

[@kevinclapson]

The existence of other Spartans was actually retconned quite well, at first. Everyone on the Pillar of Autumn believed Reach to be decimated and accepted the worst as that's what has happened at every other human settlement the covenant came across. The original series of novels addressed this VERY early on. The only issue is that as the franchise grew they didn't do a terribly good job of integrating the expanded universe into the games timeline, or vice versa, so things started getting messy.

[@Bracent_elvann]

Was going to say the books explained a lot about the other Spartans and where they were.

[@aw3299]

Exactly. Thank you 343 for destroying good writing and great games. (also microsoft somewhat for forcing bungie to make different halo games than the ones they actually wanted to do).

[@revanche1431]

18:34 Edgeworth has a framed copy of a jacket that he is also wearing and I find that hilarious

[@xqc-5734]

I still find it hilarious that in the first game Lucy shows you her hand missing the ring finger,because that’s how Altair used his hidden blade,but then in AC II it’s been modified so Ezio could keep his ring finger.

[@ABadassDragon]

She isnt missing the finger, she just bent/covered the finger, knowing Desmond would pick this up since for all he knows, assassins didnt have a left ringfinger

[@weebjeez]

@@ABadassDragon Side note, since several people will likely get on the thread of "oh, uh-huh. Sure. What a retcon" bs... No. If you slow the video down, you can see it (very briefly) that in the scene, she is halfway through folding her finger over to indicate the "missing" finger. Like, seriously, it's only one frame, because of how low quality this cutscene rip is, but it's there. And it's not just a secondary model with a missing finger or anything, it is actually the same model you see for all the rest of the game.

[@patrickphelan279]

@@weebjeez ...Huh! I must admit I was halfway to "oh uh-huh sure what a retcon", but I have more appreciation for the games at this point. It's nice when people put in the effort.

[@frisby7143]

Tbf missing a ring finger would of been pretty obvious to abstergo

[@patrickphelan279]

@@frisby7143 Good point. Like how the Yakuza stopped doing the finger thing because seeing a dude with dragon tattoos all over him and a short little finger was kind of an indicator.

[@gecko762]

i suddenly want to have a mini-series of mike reading videogame manual excerpts with the same amount of gravitas as this Halo segment.

[@SocietyOfDecency]

The twisting nether was always a point of contention for the burning legion. I agree that them dying their "final death" there was a bit of a copout considering even mobs in that zone respawn.

[@Moribax85]

I would agree with Warlords of Draenor, if not for the small detail that it's set in another reality, one that was heavily modified by Grommash via time travel. So, yes, there are both Mannoroth and Archimonde, but they're not the same seen in Warcraft 3, they're that reality's versions. No ret-con here

[@acomingextinction]

"Is that why he made clockwork minions? To take the place of his murdered children? So no one else would have to die!?" and i'm crying in the bathroom

[@coyoteartist]

Hope you stocked up on toliet paper.

[@quietone610]

Adopted children.

[@hugofontes5708]

Which brings me to what I figured: he _had_ 8 children... Until Mario threw them in Lava and blew up their castles. Perhaps the 7 minions actually are hired minions now

[@ChimeraMK]

@@hugofontes5708 "Boss, why are we dressed as your dead kids?" Bowser: _holding back tears_

[@tardsneverdie]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who was irrationally upset that the Koopalings got demoted from family members to mere minions.

[@omg_falafel]

Rationally upset*

[@topcatchillinbytrash]

You gotta respect that the older timeline kept Liu Kang dead even though it would've helped to keep him alive in hindsight. The finale retcon that revives his hero status is the literal best that could be done with what they gave themselves.

[@OopsieImSorry]

I wouldn't say worse, but when you play Dragon Age origins, you can kill Lelianna when you corrupt the Urn of Sacred ashes. But no matter what, she is always alive in the later games. All because the "Maker isn't done with her"

[@silver_the_rowlet2521]

I think the fan theory about the koopalings as Bowser's kids is that they are his adopted kids, making Bowser Jr. Bowser's only blood child.

[@darrienjones8917]

And the only question I care about is who is bowser jr's mother. Because it does always point to the fact that Peach is but like....

[@BJGvideos]

@@darrienjones8917 According to an interview with Miyamoto, Bowser Jr's mother is Miyamoto himself.

[@PKMNwater]

@@darrienjones8917 the end of one of the games has a cutscene that goes something like, Bowser: "Y'know, she's not really your mother, right?" Bowser Jr.: "I know, papa, but it would be really nice to have one."

[@arthas640]

I always thought the same myself, or that they were "sons of bowser" sort of like how some military orders, cults, etc will have disciples called "the sons of X" and that the koopalings were just the generals in his army and/or his most devoted followers. That would explain why he didnt really care about the koopalings while he seems to actually love his son. Also as a side note: am i the only one who really loved Super Mario Sunshine? Sometimes I feel like im alone in that.

[@helios123]

I'd chuck Bioshock Infinite's DLCs in here as well, which changed the story of the original to "Elizabeth knowingly started a civil war that killed thousands because she felt bad about accidentally letting one person die"

[@alexandermutsaers2693]

Are those canon? I’ve given up on trying to work out that continuity.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I'm fine with this, what with Multiverse Theory and some possible "master manipulators" in the sidelines...

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@dominicbounds8768 Multiverse Theory is a b***h, I must say.

[@jhsand1515]

Oh , hey, you know Fontaine? That gangster that the great Andrew Ryan feared in the first game? Well guess what? Fontaine was a dumbass who was NEVER actually a threat and somehow LUCKED into having Andrew Ryan's son under his control! Yeah! Fontain never actually mattered at all!

[@Kazeromaru]

@@jhsand1515 Hey blame Ken, he only made the story that way because he didn't want the company using his characters ever again, so he made it so they couldn't, by killing them all and making it a cyclical narrative.

[@xmlthegreat]

I never knew Kristen Bell voiced Lucy! Now I'm even more sad about her fate.

[@D_YellowMadness]

Bioshock Infinite retconned the wrench from Bioshock 1 into being a weapon Fontaine used to beat Elizabeth to death right before you got it & retconned Rapture into having skyhooks for no reason. It also retconned Andrew Ryan into being the kind of guy who'd be ok with the Peeping Tom plasmid, obliterating the entire premise of Bioshock 1 in the process since no one could ever plot anything behind anyone's back in a city where Peeping Tom exists. It also retconned the mysterious sound from the apartment complex into being Songbird drowning in the ocean even though Rapture still looked like it was in fixable condition when he drowned in Infinite.

[@nicholasyoung9183]

As far as the Halo thing goes, "Halo: The Fall of Reach", which is the first book in the series, actually came out before the first game did. IIRC, Linda is mentioned to have also been in a cryopod on the Pillar of Autumn, albeit clinically dead, and she later shows up again in "First Strike", later down the line. While "First Strike" wasn't published until 2003, the books are considered canon, and therefore Chief wasn't the last Spartan 2 alive, even at the time of release for Halo:CE. Bungie was just terrible about ignoring the extended universe while making the games, resulting in the confusion between the manual for CE and "The Fall of Reach." Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[@steohara6353]

Also people don't want to have to read a book to get the story before hand. Plenty of people who like games and series don't want to read a novel or go to lore websites we would prefer it in game. Bungies is just bad at lore in general, they really love a "well if you read this bit of info outside of the game you'll know what we are talking about "

[@Madrock7777]

She was mostly dead, which is still slightly alive. Also, the stasis kept her in a state of near-death until they could help her. Bungie made Halo Reach which had many references to the books. All the Spartans 3 were from the book Ghost of Onyx.

[@smattonellus8354]

@@khamjaninja. Exactly, Martin the man himself said so, they wanted things to happen in the game not to confuse people with lots of extra lore *they didn't make*

[@weebjeez]

New Headcanon: Halo CE: Co-Op takes place in an alternate reality where Linda is woken up at the same time as Chief. But since Chief has such a legendary reputation, as well as holding a much higher rank, other members of the military are too busy trying to suck Chief's dick to acknowledge her existence.

[@aw3299]

​@@smattonellus8354 They did make that extra lore though, as Eric Nylund, and then particularly Joseph Staten, wrote the books to expand upon the universe's lore. They did however write the books in a way that wouldn't actually interfere/require outside reading with the straightforward plot within just the games, such as enabling players to think Chief could of got back to earth for Halo 2 in the longsword he was in at the end of CE, when he actually he got back to earth after going through the events of First Strike. The thing was Bungie never actually combined the two seperate but canonical and lore accurate plots of the games and novels to fit together within the games when the time would inevitably come, as they were done after Reach and 343 would try and do it (and fail miserably at it, just like everything else in Halo they've done).

[@AlphaEliteTV]

As an old Warcraft fan since 1995, I've always personally thought of World of Warcraft as an alternate timeline. I'll never give up hope for a Warcraft 4 that just ignores WoW and does its own thing.

[@coyoteartist]

It's news to me that it isn't.

[@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224]

With Activision running the show now I doubt that’s ever gonna happen

[@ghoulofmetal]

All the books and other peace of fiction about warcraft supports the WoW time-line though.

[@coyoteartist]

@@ghoulofmetal To be honest, that's where the money is and probably where a decent number of the people writing them came to Warcraft through. Despite how popular the original games were, there's probably a boat load more people who only know WOW so why not capitalize.

[@danielmiller3596]

@@coyoteartist partly. WC3 did set the tone for the major change that opened it up for the masses- which is either marketing doing its work, or a large surprise for people when MMO’s were becoming a ‘thing’

[@clemi2601]

I feel like there’s stretching it with the Ace Attorney entry, like case 4 did not throw a huge wrench into the vision we had of Edgeworth.

[@outstandingdogmarron2051]

the WoW thing has always been like that, all WoD did was open a new timeline and bring the same demons from that timeline, in TBC its explained that space is the twisting nether, its not a dimension and all demons are actually just aliens edit: the koopalings were never bowsers kids that was a translation error, it only ever said that in english

[@AJadedLizard]

It could just be that I've read Game of Thrones a few times, but I think the easiest way to deal with the discrepancy in the Koopalings' parentage is that they're bastards (in the legal sense of the term...and I guess in the regular one too), while Bowser Jr (note the suffix) is Bowser's only legitimate heir. That would also explain why each of the Koopalings has their own province, while Bowser Jr. does not: he's going to inherit the entire Koopa Kingdom.

[@Tualarec]

I'm pretty sure they are Bowser's children, and were going to inherit his kingdom (divided into territories for each)... until Bowser Jr was born from a different mother (who may be Peach????) and Bowser just disowned the koopalings and no longer considers them his children. It's the closest version to what Nintendo has actually did to them XD

[@damp2269]

@@Tualarec I just want to point out that the koopalings showed up for the first time in mario 3 (1988) and they are minors: how much money has bowser payed in child support? no wonder he keeps trying to kidnap a princess.

[@jmace2424]

Do you know what you call an attorney in the real world who introduces new evidence, surprise witnesses, and updated autopsy reports? Not an attorney anymore.

[@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224]

Yea, doesn’t that stuff need to be shared......by law lol

[@Veloxyll]

Ace Attourney was heavily inspired by the Japanese legal system at the time. That was apparently WORSE than Ace Attourney paints it. There was a defense lawyer interviewed who had won like 4 cases... In 20 years.

[@Veloxyll]

@@littleshopofeldritchhorror6224 psst: That'd be the prosecution. Which was Edgeworth at the time.

[@damp2269]

afaik if you truly find evidence at the last minute you can produce it. the other side does have the option to ask for time to review the evidence though. now pull that shit several times and then yeah you won't be a lawyer for long.

[@alexpage4355]

@@damp2269 You can, but there's a process for submitting new evidence to be used... and suddenly springing it on everyone in the middle of the trial isn't it. Even if an investigation does turn up something while the trial is in process, you'd have to sidebar with the judge and opposing council to explain why you didn't have the evidence sooner and to decide whether it's admissible and how to proceed, so as not to bias the jury in the event it's rejected. Just dropping it in the middle of your arguments, in open court, for everyone to hear is a great way to have a mistrial declared... and to get yourself disbarred!

[@Skyedancer]

I personally like to believe that the Koopalings are adopted (explaining the differences in appearance), and Bowser tries not to let most people know so he can keep up his reputation.

[@JTeenmining]

I believe in the current canon, yeah, mario has a canon somehow, the koopalings are adopted, though we don't know why and it is implied there is a very emotional connection and that he trusts them a lot and they're high up in the army, though below his bio son

[@cjhedrick6418]

Damn straight for Sindel. I was so upset by the latest re-imagining that I still feel a twinge of anger when I think of all of her past endings which blatantly contradict this reveal.

[@eggyjames393]

i preferred it added something to the character when before she was so bland least it mixed it up

[@eggyjames393]

@One vibing cactus juice boi and his pet, lord momo eh i still think it's more fun to have an actually good female villain in the mk series dont have any other interesting ones

[@johnnyzero8853]

@One vibing cactus juice boi and his pet, lord momo That was when I stopped playing MK11

[@blackmage665]

@@eggyjames393 They could have elevated any number of female villains though, they really didn't NEED to bother with this retcon. ALSO the MAIN ANTAGONIST was a woman in mk11, lol. if they had better writing, this would have never happened.

[@eggyjames393]

@@blackmage665 i am aware the main antagonist was a woman what i'm saying is there are few female villains with an interesting backstory frost would've been great but they fucked it with the cyber lin kuei plot line but regardless sindel was one that had 0 personality or any interesting plot points at least there has been an attempt to bring some character into her whether or not it succeeded

[@NickPiers]

Lucy: *gets stabbed* Ohhhhh, THIS is the Bad Place!

[@eileenconway2966]

What I’m hearing is that Assassin’s Creed is a prequel to The Good Place.

[@biggusdickus1234]

I mean, the extra surviving spartan II's were established in the books years ago. Linda has been in cryo sleep, and Kelly and Frederic were underground in the ruins of CASTLE base on Reach until they escaped.

[@gizmo12055]

and with red team being on the spirit of fire which was lost with all hands for 30 odd years(so pretty much assumed all dead)

[@Crisjola]

I don't know enough about the interconnectedness of Halo Books vs Games but I do know enough about various games Media to know that they really like to seed things with book format they're not sure the fan base will accept, wait a while, and then put it in a game by referencing the books as a "see? It's canon here, therefore it always was." Makes it a nightmare for lore hunters. (Also a similar reason why, while I don't _agree at all_ with it, I at least understood why Disney chucked out most of the EU to Star Wars because too many things conflicted with shows, games, etc, that existed.)

[@biggusdickus1234]

@@Crisjola well it was established in The Fall of Reach, which has been canon for years, and First Strike, which I'm pretty sure has also been considered canon for ages

[@biggusdickus1234]

With the fall of reach being Reach from Master Chief's perspective, and First Strike taking place between halo 1 and 2

[@aromaladyellie]

I haven't played AC but I think it might have been cooler if everyone had little hints that they were actually Templars, and you could technically choose who to stab (and thus, who the Tempar was) by hitting forward/left/right on the directional keys. But Lucy would be the default if you didn't choose, and so the "canon" one. The game explains it as Desmond's ancestor acting or some shit idk like I said I haven't played lmao.

[@GregorBarclay]

The Statue of Liberty is much more Medusa-y than I remember from my last trip stateside...

[@ZlothZloth]

Lady Liberty was having a bad hair day.

[@shawnfields2369]

@@ZlothZloth Isn't that Ghostbusters 2?

[@PrototypeSpaceMonkey]

The Statue of Liberty revealed that she was actually Medusa all along when she was forced to use her Finishing Move to defeat Ultra Jesus at the battle of Rio de Janeiro. Know your history, dude.

[@Huwage]

Other surviving Spartans were introduced pretty much straight away in the books though - Fred, Kelly and Linda are in First Strike, which came out a few months after the game!

[@roguishpaladin]

But the video wasn't "7 Books Which Made the Original Game Worse" now, was it? Also, honestly, in most cases book spin-offs should be ignored for franchises - the authors usually slide in canon changes which the original creators wouldn't want but which no one noticed. There's very few exceptions to this.

[@Aquila_Sol]

Not just that, but Fred, Kelly and Linda were introduced in Halo: Fall of Reach, which came out even BEFORE the first game. Halo: The Fall of Reach: October 30, 2001 Halo: Combat Evolved: November 15, 2001

[@MorinehtarTheBlue]

On top of that there is a considerable amount of the fan base who've wanted to see those characters for years. Linda's in a cryo pod as an easter egg in 343's anniversary edition of the original. And Reach features the demise of the Spartan IIIs with the lone Spartan II featured being Noble 5 a.k.a. S-052, Jorge. Which points out that, if damage was done, it had already happened before the games mentioned. And whether it ruined anything is up for debate where as I completely agree with the other entries 100%.

[@shinofkaitan]

And despite not being the most populars, halo 4 and 5 have for them to be extremely canon, in terms of "casting", spartan program backstory and details (like AI frenzy)

[@Huwage]

@@khamjaninja. That's my shoddy memory at work again - didn't have my copy to hand to check! But that's still before Halo 2 at least - they're earlier additions to the setting than the Arbiter! (Unless he's also in a book I haven't read yet...) And re the time dilation, didn't the other Spartans just survive in a cavern underground until the Chief got back?

[@Jenn-lq9yu]

Critique here, Demons always respawned in the Twisting Nether in Warcraft lore from the very start. That wasn't a retcon in Warlords of Draenor... just something you had to look deeper into the lore to know originally.

[@hiroshi1195]

Objection! Forging evidence was never a part of Edgeworth's character arc in the first place - in fact, I'm pretty sure that it is the point. Despite him being a ruthless prosecutor and learning from Von Karma, he never sloped to his mentor's low. In fact the entire game only happened because Phoenix believed that some part of Edgeworth would never do things like the newspaper claimed, and his pursue was proven successful when he pulled his friend out of the dark path he was talking. RftA serves as the final straw that broke the camel's back and it's what made Edgeworth truly consider the meaning behind prosecuting and pursuing justice. Edgeworth didn't became a prosecutor because he wants power, he truly believed that what he did was right and all that are accused are criminals. This was a major point made in the game, especially when Edgeworth announced himself guilty when his nightmare made him remember he was the one that threw the gun. He wouldn't use forged evidence because that was the point in the first place, everything he did was to pursue justice(albeit a twisted one), and he would not break the law since that would make him the criminal he hates so much.

[@Ripper2509]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Prototype 2. Turning Alex Mercer from someone who deeply loved his sister, wanted to end the Redlight virus and even risks his life to save New York City from Nuclear detonation to a bargain basement 'I will rule the world, cause I'm superior, yo!'. Also, six greatest cartoons/anime based off of Videogames. Like Earthworm Jim, Castlevania, etc.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Don't forget inFAMOUS: Second Son. For the other example, there's Sonic SatAM and Sonic Boom for me.

[@lolaseiss]

Objection! While he wasn’t forging evidence, he was still on the wrong path and could have become a bad dude, he admitted as much himself. So we really did help him become a better person through those cases, the time we spent on them wasn’t pointless and effectively “saved” miles. He also was kinda a jerk even after the revaluation of his methods, but that’s just his tsundere archetype in regards to Phoenix.

[@espurrseyes42]

The only issue 1-5 brings up is "Edgeworth's last case" as mentioned in J4A and I think T&T as well as later appearances of Ema Skye.

[@BrazenBard]

OBJECTION! Miles Edgeworth wasn't "always a nice guy". He was a *good* guy, for definitions thereof, and an ethically inflexible one, but "nice" doesn't describe his ruthless and outright snarky attitude at all, especially when providing backhanded compliments to Dick Gumshoe and the like... :P

[@sugarnumnums6666]

As a Halo need, I feel compelled to inform you that All of the Spartans Master Chief is with in Halo 5 Guardians were canonically in the same class/ training group as Chief.

[@silverbloodborne9495]

Not Just his fireteam Fred Linda Kelly Are spartan 2

[@johnfoelster507]

The "Kill Lucy" plan was appreciably better than their Plan A, which was to replace Kristen Bell with 70s adult film star Kristine DeBell and pretend nothing had changed.

[@VegetaLF7]

Could have also gone with Christian Bale and just have Lucy have the Nolan Batman voice inexplicably

[@AbsolXGuardian]

I'd blocked out that Lucy was a traitor because I hated it so much, and so I ended up with a vague explanation of Juno killing Lucy for Isu reasons instead. Now I can't live in my false memories anymore. Also why didn't they go with that? Gets the same angst and Kristen Bell off the payroll. The Ace Attorney entry on this list on the other hand. "Did irreparable damage to our image of Edgeworth as a law scoundrel" did you black out during Turnabout Goodbyes? Edgeworth was always principled! He was just conflicted between his own ideals and the pressure put on him by Manfred von Karma. His character development is learning to stand-up for himself and seek truth over victory! A lack of self reflection and putting too much trust in the police is a source of why so many probably innocent people are convicted in Japan. His problem wasn't that he was cheating, but that he was taking the easy path for victory. If anything is a bad sequel in Ace Attorney it's that Apollo gets a new backstory every fucking game and then they just get ignored in the next.

[@auldgoat5644]

Desmond really could have stabbed Shaun and then told the oracle: "Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood." Lucy lives.

[@0ldManGaming]

Not sure if y'all have made more of these because I'm sure the list never ends...almost like telling a compelling and solid story has long since been thrown out for twists and turns for the new crowd. And those that would complain are made fun of for being too nerdy or demanding of an otherwise enjoyable(to the people who aren't paying attention)storyline.

[@alexwinfield9540]

Counter point you are a sad old nerd who will whine and moan no matter what game developers do, so you are rightly ignored

[@EvanOfTheDarkness]

Whaaat??!! I though Archimonde was killed by an unstoppable army of Ballistas! Nobody told me anything about a sacrifice!

[@tailez606]

Actually he got killed by a handful of furbolgs, a carpet of goblin land mines and didn't even manage to kill anyone (except in cutscenes). Strolled into Azeroth like a Chad and died like an absolute wimp. Source: GiantGrantGames

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Didn't we kill him with buttloads of wisps?

[@redrangerrr558]

When in doubt, remember, furbolgs deal chaos damage.

[@ka-mai]

Do we need a 15 minutes featurette of Andy explaining his problem(s?) with Shaun Hastings? XD

[@phoenixcierebiej9763]

Longer. Much longer

[@ka-mai]

@@phoenixcierebiej9763 I think the actual reason is simple and short: Andy hates Shaun 'cause he basically IS Shaun ; )

[@GrimmShadowsII]

@@ka-mai which is what would make the video so great. It's basically Shaun going on about all the reasons he hates himself.

[@ka-mai]

@@GrimmShadowsII I would love a good long montage of Andy being a snarky, witty, and aggressive posh British history nerd that would be shown as evidence in such a video instead of actual AC game scenes :D

[@shawnfields2369]

@@GrimmShadowsII Works for me. I'd watch that. I always liked Andy, and thought that he's the funniest person here, although Mike and Jane are no slouches though.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

Spartans in Galo are like Androids in Dragon Ball Z. "DO I HEAR 5!"

[@narutoultimajm]

With the halo one, I look at it as a “we thought we’d lost all the Spartans” it still doesn’t explain where they were in other games but we can imagine Chief just Batman’d it and told them he needs no help 😂

[@DuelaDent52]

Not really a game, but I think the Burial at Sea DLC did this to the past Bioshocks. •That contradicts the rules of dimension/time travelling in the base game. •That basically proves Andrew Ryan and his Randian philosophy right by having Rapture’s downfall come from an outsider and builds up Jack as this fantastic ubermensch, •That includes a painfully obvious retcon to make a Daisy Fitzroy look a bit less evil. •That messes with the message of the base game’s final act by having everything literally tie into each other instead of just spiritually. •Elizabeth acts really dumb throughout, risking her life and giving up her omniscience to save a Little Sister who’s already invincible and immune to harm. •The DLC’s basically just misery porn, and to cap everything off Elizabeth is unceremoniously fridges off to make way for Jack, the faceless, voiceless, personalityless player avatar from the first game so he can save the Little Sisters (which, thanks to this game’s own rules of constants and variables and the first game’s whole moral choice aspect, is only something that MIGHT happen).

[@mar_speedman]

I thought it was already cleared up in the fourth case of Ace Attorney that Miles was good all along, and was only being used by his mentor, who in reality killed his father. I mean, it's even a running theme in the games that the prosecutors start up as seemingly evil, only for it to be revealed that they're actually good people trying to do what they think is right. Except Von Karma. The guy literally killed Miles' father, what did I just tell you 5 seconds ago? lol (And Winston Payne who is just a big idiot)

[@whitethunder9064]

Which makes Rise From the Ashes even more pointless.

[@cv8167]

Pretty sure throwing coffee in someone's face is considered assault. There's no way someone would get away with that in front of a real judge.

[@13th_Ghostly_Grimm]

Hey Edgeworth was a sad character and needed a hug

[@MazTheOriginalGod]

- Samus: From Badass Independant Space mercenary to... Whatever was that in Other M.

[@nickdejager8873]

What? There's no such thing as "The Other M'. That's just Space Pirate propaganda, to try to make people lose faith in Samus.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Only Zero Mission, Samus Returns (and/or AMR2, whichever comes first), Super Metroid, Fusion, and the Metroid Prime trilogy happened. This... was just some Multiversal madness clinging.

[@SaiyanGamer95]

You mean mentally and emotionally exhausted because she lost her home and her adopted child within the span of a few minutes?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@SaiyanGamer95 That's... one way of saying it.

[@SaiyanGamer95]

@@michaelandreipalon359 I heard that's why she's the way she is in that game. Since it takes place shortly after Super Metroid.

[@Wogle]

Halo's continuity is damn mess at this point. They've retconned so much, then retconned the retcons, that at this point who the hell knows what the actual story and established facts are anymore

[@tommy0con2]

from what I can tell is that they basically are considering the novels the main canon and so any differences between the games and the books they will pick the books history. I think the choice is dumb and that 4 is meh at best and 5 being a dumpster fire but I do think that is what they where going for.

[@Sorain1]

The Flood went from a beyond dangerous parasite just intelligent enough to be horrifying to literal reality warping ancient vengeance demons. They really screwed the pooch on that one unfortunately.

[@llamadasinrespuesta4631]

yeah, 343 killed halo.

[@dragon22214]

@@llamadasinrespuesta4631 thatsca bit extreme

[@RedtailArt]

Actually the Mario thing was retconned again. Now the koopalings are Bowser's adopted kids, and Bowser Jr. Is his only biological child

[@Moony-Lighty]

While adding in the new case was a bit unnecessary, I feel like it didn’t really dilute Edgeworth’s character in any way. He didn’t lose any development or anything like that. It just was a bit out of the blue to see it added in.

[@gruggerduggerhoose]

Mike’s dramatic af halo VO is really something lol

[@solumanblevins5906]

I remember that Sindel controversy going down. Netherealm's response was a rather dickish "You should be thankful she's in the game at all!" Lost a LOT of respect that day, and I thought the butchering of Injustice 2 was bad...

[@stardustpie1992]

Sly Cooper 4: Thieves in Time did this with Sly Cooper 3: Honor Among Thieves. In the chapter where you team up with Sir Garreth in medieval times, it’s revealed that Penelope, Bentley’s girlfriend who was introduced in the last game and was stated to have gone missing during the time skip between 3 and 4, disappeared because she became evil between games because she felt like her and Bentley’s intelligence and mechanical talents were being wasted with the Cooper Gang, resulting in a boss fight against her in a giant steampunk armor mech when Bentley refuses to join her. A lot of fans weren’t happy, and I honestly see why, considering her disappearance mentioned at the beginning of the game is really the only foreshadowing towards this.

[@gooblop]

Worst example of this? Easily Zero Time Dilemma, which took a series of mystery/puzzle/visual novel escape room games and had just awful retcons, making previously unrelated characters suddenly related by blood as lazy twists, and having a final villain with no reasonable logic at all.

[@paulalvinbuquiron5698]

Also there were no tellings of Lucy's betrayal from AC1 to brotherhood, it came out of nowhere. And it was the first sign of the decline

[@jaketheberge1970]

The Halo books retconned the number of living Spartan II's two years after the first game came out. Their appearance in Halo 5 is just a gift to the book fans. I think they got stranded on/in an alien planet during Halo 1-3 so as not make things to easy.

[@clownfiesta8840]

Was going to say, can’t put it on Halo 5 since it was retconned in Ghosts of Onyx, First Strike

[@dutch_asocialite]

I believe they were out of action for a number of reasons, among them being stranded on an alien planet alongside the Model 3's, but in the case of Linda, according to my brother, her kidneys were, "turned into smoothies."

[@jaketheberge1970]

@@dutch_asocialite Idk about her kidneys. I haven't read the book in question Ghosts Of Onyx in a pretty long time.

[@Gryphanii]

I remember reading a book where Cheif runs into some fellow Spartan II's before making it back to Earth for the start of Halo 2. Not sure if it came out before or after Ghosts of Onyx or if it was the very same book though.

[@jaketheberge1970]

@@Gryphanii I think that was First Strike which came out before Onyx.

[@roax206]

I was one of the "poor" people who grew up playing RuneScape instead of WoW. When I hear Warlords of Draenor I hear Warlords of Draynor Village which would be a load of guys fighting over a tiny village with little more than a market, a bank and a guy who "supposedly" made rope out of sheep's wool. Though the village did have a resident witch and a vampire who lived in a haunted manor to the north.

[@jamie1602]

I mean... demons gotta weave, right? Riiiight?

[@Ryan-qr3xg]

17:04, those extra spartans were trapped in a dyson sphere for a number of years so that's why they weren't around until halo 5. The others were from the spirit of fire that was drifting around for decades because they gave up their slip drive to blow up a shield world that had a fleet of forerunner ships in them that could've wiped out humanity.