Overdue Doctor Who Review: Closing Time

The much anticipated(?) return of Craig! Yeah... we... we were totally all clamoring for that. Well Doctor Who is going to give it to us anyways. Plus some Cybermen. So let's see how this panned out.
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#doctorwho

[@quinnsinclair7028]

My biggest problem with it was that it felt unnecessarily goofy both coming off the God Complex and leading into the Doctor’s death which we know is coming. The episode is fine but I think most people are disappointed that it wasn’t just something else.

[@tmage23]

I hope Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All (don't call him Alfie) makes a reappearance sometime in the future.

[@puddlel1ama327]

I'd love for Stormageddon to become a companion, once he's 20 or 30. Therefore, we'd get a return of an 11th Doctor minor character and a companion from the future.

[@anawilliams1332]

Replace yaz with stormageden

[@cappuccinocrafts2412]

@@puddlel1ama327 I wonder if gown-up Stormageddon goes by his mundane identity Alfie. LOL.

[@charlottem7758]

And the Timeless Child is revealed - Stormageddon

[@JAM92]

That whole bit was awful, it made no sense! There's no suspension of disbelief in that idea since we know enough about babies to that it can't be that way. The Doctor "speaking baby" was totally cringy as hell. The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about that bit is the film Baby Geniuses, NOTHING should remind me of Baby Geniuses.

[@GiubileiFernando]

I loved the idea of the Doctor revisiting someone from a previous episode, I wish he could make other casual friends like these.

[@prof.evilpictures8696]

Personally I preferred Closing Time to The Lodger. I like how it’s the Doctor’s “final trip” before his death. Matt Smith and James Cordan are always a win.

[@TheMarcHicks]

I will say, though, that the chemistry between Smith & Corden was great, as always.

[@charlottem7758]

I think it's a pretty underrated episode - The chemistry between The Doctor and Craig is great, Craig's journey on becoming confident in being a dad, The idea of the Doctor's closing tour and The Doctor accepting his death, The scene and the end - They all just really work for me. Also Stormageddon is awesome

[@samuelbarber4154]

I quite like the "I speak baby" gag. I think it's just silly enough to be funny

[@kieranwatts8037]

definitely one of the underrated episodes. Not all of them need to be high stakes, its one of the filler episodes which we need to make the good episodes stand out

[@thatjedifromgallifrey6663]

I like to joke that Stormageddon is the Timeless Child

[@jamma.77]

9:57 One thing I found out recently about Night Terrors is that it was apparently supposed to come before Good Man Goes To War before being moved to the second half of the series, so that's probably why there was no link made.

[@benw4409]

Yeah it was going to be after Doctor's Wife and foreshadow the Flesh cliffhanger with the "in the flesh" line but it was too tonally and visually similar to the stories surrounded it so it got shifted to the second half and replaced with Curse of the Black Spot which completely screwed what it was trying to do over. It's a shame cause I actually really like that one.

[@vanillamc1]

The first time I watched this, I totally missed Matt grinding pepper on Craig, lol. The scene with Matt and the baby was lovely.

[@DPS31762]

I haven't re-watched either of them, but my reaction at the time to this and The Lodger was almost reversed from yours. I thought both of them to be mostly boring, tbh, but whereas Ifound The Lodger to be a bit grating, didn't find Closing time grating. I did like the Stormageddon bits (I don't necessarily buy that the Doctor can actually speak and understand baby or horse, but that he thinks he can I buy) and I agree that how the cybermen were used here was fine. I know that some people thought it wasn't kosher that Craig could defy conversion, but there is actually a long history going back to ClassicWho of some people being able to resist--for example, Toberman in Tomb of the Cybermen and Lytton in Attack of the Cybermen.

[@nightowl8477]

The resolution is supposed to be poking fun at the rushed ending of Age of Steel: "All that stuff they cut out of themselves - now they're feeling it! Which means a very big explosion."

[@kiarash608]

The Lone Cyberman wants revenge for their treatment here. Don't give it to him! I really dislike this episode just because of the ending. I can't think of many instances where a resolution to a villain bothered me this much. The Cybermen are my all time favorite monsters and this cheesy "love" ending drives me mad. (Though i usually hate "love" resolutions in Sience Fiction anyway. Personal taste thing) It really defanged the Cybermen and took away scare factor for me. At least in Age of Steel it killed them. They didn't just break free. Imagine if the tragic "Daaaaaaaaaaad" moment in Spare Parts followed this logic. "Oh look, my father! I love my father!" (Breaks out of the suit and everyone lives happily ever after)

[@jmurray1110]

my head cannon is that the reduced power cannot fully convert people and the hard ware wasn't working at full compasity so the emotional inhibitor overloaded and messed up the process leading to a reset on the machinery but it may have some flaws

[@infinitygames9317]

We've seen immense emotion kill Cybermen before though.

[@JayLiszte]

Favorite moment: I’m the doctor and I work in a shop

[@Deathlygunn]

I genuinely think the way this episode should have gone is having Amy and Rory, now Earthbound, working with Craig. That way you get to see that Amy and Rory didn't just settle back into their normal lives (Something Series 7 suggested they weren't quite capable of), Amy looking after Alfie could have gave time to see how she felt losing Melody and knowing she could never give Rory another child (rather than coming out of nowhere in Asylum), and the dynamic of only companions having to stop a small scale Cyberman threat would be genuinely interesting (whereas we literally saw The Doctor destroy an entire Cyberfleet only five episodes ago)

[@SuperYouFox]

I'll admit it isn't one of the stronger episodes, but on my Guilty Pleasure episodes list, this is my choice for Series 6, just like how The Lodger is my choice for Series 5. Maybe I'm just a sucker for Craig. For those curious: S1 - Aliens of London/World War Three S2 - School Reunion S3 - The Shakespeare Code & Gridlock S4 - The Unicorn and the Wasp Specials - The Next Doctor S5 - The Lodger S6 - Closing Time S7P1 - Dinosaurs on a Spaceship S7P2 - Nightmare in Silver S8 - Robot of Sherwood & Time Heist S9 - The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar S10 - World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls S11 - The Witchfinders S12 so far - Fugitive of the Judoon

[@d_wigz6418]

World enough and time and doctor falls isn't a guilty pleasure. Those are universally loved. A couple others like school reunion and gridlock are too but perhaps to a lesser extent.

[@SuperYouFox]

@@d_wigz6418 I usually have two lists. Best episodes and Personal Favourites/Guilty Pleasures. In the case of Series 10, there is some overlap.

[@calliesanderford3410]

I like to rewatch the episode before your review to refresh the memory. It wasn't on my enjoyed list to begin with and didn't move up, unfortunately. I liked the Amy moment because is a very good memory. Congrats on last night's livestream with over 300 participants!

[@amelialikesfrogs5778]

I'm not a James Corden fan, I haven't seen Gavin and Stacey yet but I really like craig

[@patrickt.6492]

I liked The Wrong Mans.

[@nightowl8477]

It's fine. I might have said the same about The Lodger, but I find it enjoyable enough. The ending is just bizarre tho.

[@ishaandw]

It's a fun enjoyable episode. Casual viewers might find this one of their favourite episode.

[@chanceneck8072]

WTF???? Did I watch another episode or did I miss something, you just said in your review??? NO WORDS ABOUT THE RIVER/ASTRONAUT REVEAL AT THE END???????

[@dhi_holo9341]

I always somewhat enjoyed this episode, even with the somewhat annoying humour looking back (I was young my first few watches (2013, so around 12)), the way the Cybermen were used and the relationships and everything just kinda connected with me Never realised the model was Amy though, makes sense in hindsight though, links it in with the S7 introduction where I felt like the modelling thing came from nowhere (similar to Clara becoming a teacher)

[@wreckitremy]

All great points, I feel pretty much the same about the episode. I really wanted to love it, for its concept. Having a father be emotional and protective of his kid in that way is something that's not done very often. This episode would get points for that if it weren't coming off the heals of all those partner jokes.

[@shanryder]

I love this episode so much 😂

[@roxxychik06]

I just love the baby in this. I know the jokes are stupid and dont work but it still makes me giggle.

[@loner844]

tbh, I haven't seen this episode in a long time, so I completely forgot it had cybermen and not a monster of the week in it. what I basically remember this episode for was the human element, particularly the relationship between the Doctor and Craig. I basically love all their interactions, as I find it entertaining. that alone makes this episode worthwhile to me.

[@sbi168]

Definitely not the best. But it's fun and frothy. Stormageddon. Classic. Cybermen are largely superfluous but are fine. It's just fun and campy and I feel very old who. Again never amazing and it's never my go to watch, but I enjoy it. Mat Smith is brilliant even the small bit with Karen gillan is so moving.

[@justkerowen3191]

While I agree some parts are really cheesy and it covers a lot of well-worn territory, I have a soft spot for this one overall. The bits with Eleven and Stormy just melt my heart - Smith does a stellar job of selling it. I also like the bitey Cybermats, they definitely have a malicious edge they lacked before. I'm so glad you buy off on the climax and point out there're reasons why it works. I know a lot of people think it's tacky, but for me as a parent, the idea that Craig was saved by the instinct to care for his child brings a tear to my eye, particularly given how much of the episode he spent struggling with it. So yeah - not the best, but better than most give it credit for.

[@edwardtimelord3614]

I'm pretty sure a cybermat sprayed out poison gas in Revenge of the Cybermen

[@lwaves]

1:15 Do not ask for whom the bells toll. If thou art filming a video, they toll for thee.

[@futureravenable]

Damn, I was hoping the opening quote was going to be "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end"

[@esrevinu.]

I *mostly* agree with everything you said,... but, its still one of my favorite episodes, even if the dynamic between Smith and Corden seemed a lil played out and not as fresh,... and I totally agree that the Cybermen were fine. I was much happier with creepy sneaky cybermen than every other time we've seen them just march en masse.

[@fernandogarajalde4066]

Doctor Smith? Took me all this time to get that...

[@EJRichardsonFubara]

Oh, the pain... The pain... lol

[@benw4409]

I really enjoy The Lodger but Closing Time just annoys me. It's not Corden or Craig that's the issue (I think he's fine in both episodes) but the inclusion and subsequent waste of the Cybermen and using them in a jokey context is just really pathetic IMO. This could've easily been fixed using the Nestene Consciousness and the Autons instead due to the setting. Sure, they'd be in the background but the Autons have always been used as a standard threat of the week but to use the Cybermen, one of the show's most iconic monsters, in a throwaway episode speaks volumes about how the Moffat era viewed the show's main villains. It's not bad and I'm sure people who don't adore the Cybermen as much as I do enjoy it a lot more but Closing Time just irritates me. And it's not just because it aired after my favourite episode of all time, as The Lodger also aired after one of my personal favourites and I love that episode. I get WHY people enjoy it, it's just not for me, and I love this era normally.

[@shanryder]

When you're marching towards your death, isn't everything a joke?

[@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212]

I can’t really remember how it plays out in Good Man’s Goes to War - but I think I’ll head cannon the ‘I talk baby’ thing as the Doctor manipulating Craig to get him to have more confidence.

[@keskonriks710]

I think the main issue with the cybermen is that in Rise of the cybermen/the age of steel the doctor uses the emotional inhibiter stuff as a last resort to save parallel Earth, while hear it is his go-to-solution. That's a problem 'cause the emotional inhibitor stuff is very painful for the cybermen as we see with the woman who would've got married in The Age of Steel. The Doctor would normally try ti find another solution first. Just my opinion.

[@tasteokayos]

I don't know if anyone else agrees with me but I really enjoy the small moment that the doctor has with alfie where he speaks about his life. In my opinion its one of matt's best scenes

[@rogerjones3350]

I like both of the Craig episodes.They're just fun, though I doubt that any Doctor other than Matt Smith could have pulled them off.

[@ukmediawarrior]

I thought the Cybermats were used well in the Tom Baker story 'Revenge of the Cybermen', how they were used to spread the supposed plague with their bite.

[@tomski120]

This story was so similar to "night terrors" and pretty much an identical resolution

[@callisto8413]

Wow....I can't even remember what happened in this episode. So..based on that I guess I feel 'Meh' about this episode.

[@FrumiousMing8]

The tired "Haha people mistake them for being gay" is totally an over used Moffat joke. He did it a ton in Sherlock...

[@TheMarcHicks]

I saw this episode as necessary filler to help lighten the mood in between God Complex & The Wedding of River Song. It wasn't fantastic, but I didn't find it awful either.

[@Daelyas]

oh yeah.... this episode existed. Well... wait what were we talking about again? Whatever... moving on.

[@Emme-Kappa]

Personally I like this more than The Lodger

[@scix8794]

I love this ep my 2nd fav ep of this season after good man goes to war

[@WiloPolis03]

I like this episode, but ever notice how it has the exact same plot as Night Terrors? The Doctor visits a father's home without permission, can talk to their son better than their father, and their father ultimately saves the day from aliens because he loves his son so much.

[@Fanatic_Foremem]

This and the other craig episode are the best 11th Doctor episodes. I wanted more of Matt Smith in hijynx adventures instead of all the drama we got. Serious Matt is best in small amounts but they tried to do it every other episode.

[@WiloPolis03]

I think I looked away from the computer screen for a minute and missed like 12 Doctor Who uploads. Not complaining tho

[@scotswarrior9535]

I personally HATED this episode, seeing them go from Rise of the Cybermen to...this. It honestly pissed me off quite a lot. It's like if in the Godzilla reboot a baby's crying caused Godzilla to get PTSD from when the Rugrats made him a babysitter or something like that and run away screaming...

[@electerald]

This is my second favourite Moffat era story (6/10)

[@electerald]

Thomas Wilkinson no, The Lodger (6/10)

[@BirdPeopleArentReal]

I can’t rewatch it cause amazon took it off prime 😫😫😫

[@imafgc]

I always liked this episode, not all episodes need to be super serious

[@standardgrapes]

I really like this episode. It's fun

[@nightowl8477]

4:47 how do you feel about her apparently becoming a journalist in Series 7? That's just strange to me. Comes out of nowhere, nothing is done with it.

[@Ben-vf5gk]

Tbf Amy herself didn't know what she wanted to do around that time so I bought it.

[@mrshannonite4016]

I think the big problem here is that most youtube Doctor Who reviewers, here on KZbin, take the show far too seriously and are expecting the works of Shakespeare and then start pulling it to pieces when it doesn't live up to expectations. I know negative reviews pull in viewers, but can't you just kick off your shoes, sit back and take it all for what it's supposed to be...bubblegum family entertainment?

[@kirstyshadowdancer5095]

Don't mind me singing Greenday songs. . .

[@123darkelf]

I don’t think the misunderstanden gay joke would of been so painful if it weren’t for one fact....it took the entire episode before they were like,”Oh wait you thought we were ga-NOOO!” I feel like if they got that joke out of the way much earlier I wouldn’t wanna hit my head against a wall 500 times. Still, I do actually like this episode but I do agree those are issues. Although I am guilty of finding it fun to watch when the doctor was trying to look after a baby.

[@k.stewart007]

I think your understanding of the end, probably comes from the fact you are a father. I think it's one of eppisodes that depends alot of peoples understand of that father/child bond. Otherwise it does come across more stupid. Everyone understood the emotional inhibitor thing, because they could put themselves in that situation. If you realised you had become a cyberman, you can relate to how that feels. Not everyone can relate with that parental bond. I know I could tare a cyberman apart limb, by limb if my baby was in danger, or frightened. Well I'd definitely feel like I could anyway. It is that explosion of emotion. It's hard to understand that level of emotion, if you're not a parent I guess. I think the baby thing was the whole reason why they kept Amy and Rory out of this story. Maybe night terrors too. So the writers didn't have to deal with the whole "how should they react around a baby. It would have meant them doing a ton of research on something that the focus of the story isn't even about. Plus it would have taken up alot of time, and still run the risk of getting it totally wrong. Tbh I haven't seen closing time recently. Its usually one of my skips. I dont hate it, but if I've got a spare 45 minutes to chill out and watch a who eppisode. I'm just not going to waste that 45 minutes on closing time.

[@ksaunders4362]

yeah, Matt Smith made the whole Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All work perfectly. Matt Smith made a lot of the cringier and/or cheesier parts of the writing work much better than they should have. I don't always like his episodes, but I don't deny he can carry them off.

[@biscuitsandbananas3433]

This was a fairly forgettable episode. It's just sort of there. It's hardly the best use to make of the cybermen, although it could be a lot worse (*cough* The Next Doctor *cough*). This was the 4th cybermen episode (or 5th if you count The Pandorica Opens as a cybermen episode, which I don't) of modern Doctor Who, and the best use of the cybermen that they'd found was having them be completely overshadowed by the daleks in the Army of Ghosts/Doomsday 2-parter.

[@chanceneck8072]

Only good thing about this episode was the ending! I already hated the first episode with this actor, but the way he shouts "Alfie" in his Cyberman gear is probably the number 1 most cringe image of Doctor Who ever to me!....

[@herbivarsawus4359]

Marianne Williamson's favourite episode. This is how we'll defeat Trump!

[@modmaker7617]

I don't get The Doctor speaking "Baby". A baby is born and has no language then develops language from their parents and/or siblings and/or people around them.

[@kosh9639]

one of the oldest languages, that is know... Is partly based & pronounced, on the baby noises.. Forgot which ones; But, probably as old as Sumerian.

[@captbuckyohare5585]

Never really cared for this episode. It did feel a bit tired and flatter than The Lodger. The whole time, for some reason, I was always distracted by how freakishly thin Matt Smith looks in this episode... like especially thin. Weird, I know.

[@dubbingsync]

So sounds like you live near a church or clock tower... going by the beginning of the main review.

[@neddystark3351]

Hands down the worst episode of Doctor who, classic or new...absolutely bloody awful. Hunting Cybermen with a fat bloke and a baby...what a winner lol. Is anyone scared of Cybermen after this episode???

[@DaniEl-hc7qn]

I really hate this episode.

[@QuokkaCore]

Worst Cyberman story ever.

[@charliedawson6318]

The Lodger's great but this is just a waste of an episode. Like, I struggle to beleive Moff or the the writer were genuinely passionate about it. The thing's a rehash.