Overdue Doctor Who Review: Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS

[@charliedawson6318]

Honestly the idea of somebody being tricked into believing they're an android is such an existentially terrifying concept it deserves to be it's own story.

[@lwaves]

It's brilliantly evil and cruel. A different take on what happened to Oswin

[@WiloPolis03]

I feel like the vice versa of that is much more terrifying. Much more common of a trope, but I think the idea of a robot being tricked into thinking that they're human has a lot more potential

[@user-fu7zf4ck9z]

@@WiloPolis03 Thats pretty much Blade runner (and blade runner 2049)

[@Silverwind87]

@@lwaves Or a different take on the Flesh and the Gangers.

[@SamWickens]

Imagine this as a defence mechanism: the salvagers are faced with a freshly regenerated 6th Doctor who takes them for alien spies. And we all know the fate of alien spies. Seriously, though, if time and space starts bleeding out of the Tardis, imagine all the things you could do. They could find past console rooms, voices from past conversations, forshadowing to future events (it's Moffat era, you'd think he'd jump at that chance), twisted gravity, Escher-style layouts, anything!

[@samuelbarber4154]

Mr Luxarina also, it's the 50th anniversary year, Moffat's a Whovian, why not bring back the secondary console room? Just for the fans to remind them that this is the anniversary. I just had that thought because the classic era, in 1983, for the 20th season, had an entire series of returning foes. Omega, the Mara, the Black Guardian and the Master.

[@quinnsinclair7028]

They had two console rooms, Nine/Ten's and the Pond era one. It would have been so easy to even have a single scene of running through them.

[@benw4409]

So much missed potential here. We could've had a full exploration of all the weird TARDIS rooms, but just corridors and boring rooms are seen. The brothers are insufferable, the directing and writing confusing and we have an interesting conflict that ultimately doesn't even exist at the end. Big mistake having Steve Thompson write this one, he's clearly not a good enough writer to handle such a complex and weird episode.

[@gregf9160]

This is why _Midnight_ was so good. No special "monster" effects. Just the monstrous people. That is what Doctor Who _should_ be. A scary story, told with no effects. It's all in your head (or should be).

[@trekjudas]

I LOVE this episode! The inside of the TARDIS is kinda terrifying! It's science beyond our imagination and in this episode you really get to see how scary that can be!

[@strbourne]

Friendly Fronds why would it need more?

[@KerstinMamma]

Clara does eventually remember her conversation with the doctor when they go to Trenzalore.

[@lwaves]

It's been a while but if I remember correctly, doesn't he have to tell her because she is refusing to move on and trust him because she's knows he's keeping stuff from her? That's why he tells her, for that moment.

[@lwaves]

@Friendly Fronds Yes but my post was about why the Doctor told Clara, knowing that she'd forget as Nathaniel couldn't see why he'd do that.

[@wreckitremy]

This is why I love your reviews. Episodes like this confuse me, because I feel like I should have liked it, but it didnt leave an impression for some reason. Now I know why.

[@neto135791]

i figured that the brothers were attacking their past selves to prevent the accident from happening and end up causing the accident. like they are stuck in a paradox

[@kasterborous1701]

That’s not a paradox, it’s a predestination loop.

[@TheQuietReader1920]

Me: oof harsh review of an episode I don't mind, but never mind, I know series 7 is unpopular-- Also me: wait next week is my favourite episode--oh no, please be nice!!

[@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212]

Crimson Horror is your favourite episode?! I watched it recently... I’d like to hear what you like about it, if you have the time. (Not intending a toxic argument, I’d genuinely like to hear this)

[@allanjohnstone5258]

I quite like the crimson horror, I like that vastra, strax and Jenny basically lead the story and I like villain. It's not exactly the best episode in all of who but I find it harmless and fun.

[@TheQuietReader1920]

@@LiamLAC That's alright, I'm quite prepped for it. And I honestly don't mind it being criticised, I'm used to that now, I just find it exciting when someone is on the same page as me!

[@TheQuietReader1920]

@@qqqqqqqqqqqq121212 haha, it is! It's a number of things really, but the two standouts for me are the core concept and the performances of Diana Rigg and Rachael Stirling. I've always thought it had a fantastic central mystery, and I love the atmosphere of the whole episode (it's very Hammer Horror!) Rigg and Stirling are real-life mother and daughter, and their dynamic works really well--whilst the villainess is a campy creation, I feel she's ruthless and menacing enough to be a threat, and I find her daughter to be really sympathetic. On the whole, I certainly don't think its better than Mummy on the Orient Express or Blink, but it just taps into enough things I personally like to make it a favourite. Hope that gives you some food for thought :)

[@patrickt.6492]

I don't even remember this episode. The Crimson Horror stands out for 1 exchange: "If this gets into the wrong hands it could [kill all of London or whatever]." "Do you know what these are? The wrong hands!" The gleeful way she says it is great.

[@alfje5492]

Probably nu-Who's episode with the biggest squandered potential: this could (and should) have been a fantastic episode, so yeah, I'm all for a remake of it.

[@Nulono]

I got the impression that their future selves were trying to kill them because it'd be a more merciful death than whatever turned them into that.

[@booradley8895]

We did get to see the swimming pool though

[@Schming]

You could watch "Edge of Destruction" as a similar concept done better fifty years earlier!

[@joesomers3949]

I think this episode was quite good and would have worked better if it was a classic who story in four parts.

[@holodoc]

One of the better episodes of the year I thought . Not the first time we've been on complete opposite ends. Hear me out though: First, consider the possibility that the episode was crafted around the monsters. And we call them that for their appearance, not really because they want to kill anybody. True they ARE dangerous to come on contact with, but we're seeing horror-in-life and the madness it brings, as well as the desperation to recapture what you had or were before. Why? To establish what the empath said in "Hide" to Clara of The Doctor's dark side, to change gears on her infatuation and flattery over this magical character having found HER after millennia of searching. By the end of the episode they lead us to believe that none of Clara's revelations matter, but "Name of the Doctor" is not too far off. And if she can recall what transpired then perhaps she does remember things on a subconscious level, because we don't know just yet that she exists across all of time and space via shards of a whole. Also... Why would they take advantage of their brothers' memory loss? Perhaps a commentary of today's Generation Z and its antipathetic sensibilities. And a business suddenly left to such types with the death of their father. For me the plot hole lies in the scanner that knows the TARDIS' incalculable value and what those items are capable of doing. How is that possible?

[@aaron2k026]

I wish they didn't have this HUUGE Arc with Clara. The doctor goes and finds her in modern day because he has met her twice already. I prefer it when the companion is just a random person who happened to be near the doctor at the time, such as Rose. I mean Donna has her arc as the Doctor-Donna but that was an amazing arc. Clara was in the show for too long.

[@ftumschk]

I'm not so enamoured of arcs, and I'm happy to take individual stories on their own merit - not that it helps "Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS" much ;) It's not terrible by any means, but it could have done with a stronger guest cast; those three guys just don't work for me.

[@charlottem7758]

Just a small thing about this which was more of a, "why?" than something I actively dislike - Why does the Doctor spank Clara's butt at the end?

[@EmpireEmployeeRick]

does he? i never noticed. I mean i adore Jenna Coleman, she's gorgeous but c'mon doc seriously? just feels out of character for the doctor *facepalms*

[@elliottnoad1270]

Wait what - 120 seconds later(0:15 seconds in kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWrUYaWFl8SClZo ) oh oh my

[@di7770]

Moffat

[@lwaves]

@Charlotte M In reality he doesn't. It was Matt being playful to Jenna on set when he thought he was hidden behind the time rotor. The pair never expected it to make it to the final edit but it did for some reason. Possibly because the editor missed it or even liked it but it wasn't planned. That's from Jenna herself.

[@EmpireEmployeeRick]

@@lwaves huh interesting. same happened with time of the doctor, Matt and Jenna weren't a couple or anything so i do find it weird for matt to do those things, as i'm a huge fan of Jenna.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

Man, I totally agree with basically everything that you've said! I myself always look forward to spending time in the TARDIS, but I didn't feel like we got enough of that in this episode, and the twists are really dumb and pointless. I'd be 100% down for a re-hash of this episode sometime in the future. Making an episode like that with Jodie's TARDIS would be just _marvelous_

[@landlighterfirestar5550]

One thing that really threw me through the ringer (in a good way) is that in The Name of The Doctor Clara starts to remember the events of this episode which first of all, how??? And secondly, really helps her character. It’s almost a similar instance to Amy being a flesh avatar and saying “I am properly properly scared.”

[@plumpuddingproductions9141]

I've never been fond of this episode but one thing that irks me since watching it is the Doctor says "the salvage of a lifetime? I meant Clara!". That's not a cleaver line and yet by the way it's presented it makes it seem that it's this clever reveal that when he was talking about salvage he meant, his friend and human being, Clara.

[@DeathGodRiku]

How many times have we had a Doctor only episode? I can only think of Heaven Sent. I would LOVE to have an episode where, for one reason or another, the Doctor has to travel throughout the TARDIS alone

[@lwaves]

Tom Baker had one as well, The Deadly Assassin which was right after he dropped off Sarah-Jane. They're the only two I know of.

[@Redboots]

tbh I think moffatt was so excited about being able to write his dream episode he forgot to not put too much in it

[@JZBelexes]

I downloaded this episode when it first aired because I expected it to be one of the all-time classics that I'd want to watch over and over. I don't think I've gone back and watched it since 2013. I'm not even sure if I still have it saved any more, and if I lost it I'm not worried.

[@christophersmith3272]

I’m not even sure it gets the plaudits for a great setup, because a lot of the things that the TARDIS could do with a defence mechanism was shown in ‘The Doctor’s wife’ when house’s matrix took possession of it. So this episode is even more of a non entity. The best way to describe what this episode was is this- This episode is the equivalent of the Doctor’s costume for this episode.

[@DPS31762]

Hated this one. One of my biggest complaints about the Moffat era is how often he hit the reset button; here, it's not only metaphorical, it's done literally.

[@rpowell20139]

You are one of the best reviewers on KZbin. Too many other provide a junior high level review of show (repeat it back as if this was a review). Have you read Dune or Robert Heinlein, or any of the other popular books?

[@Prestidigitoreum]

My biggest issue with this episode is the conclusion with the brothers. Not enough is gained for them to have gone through all that. They're basically just script filler.

[@nightowl8477]

*I actually think this episode was a fail just conceptually.* We should *never* see more of the TARDIS - if the TARDIS interior is so awesome, *why would anyone want to leave?* That goes for both us, the audience, as well as the primary cast (the Doctor hates domesticity, and so should any interesting companion.) It's just immediately out-of-character for both the companion *and* the Doctor to spend more than ten minutes in the box. At least the writers were smart enough to force them into a situation where they have to explore the TARDIS, but the audience is still dragged along. Seeing more of the TARDIS is one of those things which sounds cool, but it can never be done well.

[@nightowl8477]

Best kept to the imagination.

[@FlamingoSundew]

Had a nice wrap up though the brothers were mean

[@mystic_mimi21]

I just re watched it a realised that once the doctor erases what happened the Android brother who wasn’t really an Android won’t ever be told he is human as the events would never have happened so he will carry on thinking the lies he was told . I think what would have been amazing is if they wanted monsters I could have just been the Tardis (protection protocols/ defensive mechanisms) created the monsters to protect itself and get rid of what she perceives as a threat. Sort of bringing your fears alive (ghost busters) or sort of a call back to the doctors wife when the Tardis got taken over . I loved that idea so much and how the doctor and Tardis are sort of soul mates and connected and the dream doctor but it’s a dream Tardis

[@EmpireEmployeeRick]

This episode was interesting but messy. I loved seeing Clara explore the TARDIS but that's it really. (Also that dress Jenna wears is lovely :D). i'd give it a 5/10. Matt and Jenna are only the redeeming features and seeing more of the TARDIS was cool, but overall it was messy. nothing offends me but nothing amazes me either.

[@anthonymorgan5822]

I found it weird when they showed the Eye of Harmony and it looked nothing like the movie version. My head canon is that the Eye from Journey is the room immediately below the room from the movie. Alternatively, no explanation for why the room looks different is needed because the TARDIS changes it’s desktop theme with increasing frequency.

[@samuelbarber4154]

Anthony Morgan also, no explanation for why it's in the TARDIS at all, even though in the Deadly Assassin, it was on Gallifrey.

[@lucypreece7581]

I distinctly remember watching this episode for the first time. that weekend my brother was at home, my parents were away trying (and failing) to fix their stale marriage and i was at my friends Caitlin's house for the weekend. Now Caitlin and I are two of the maddest people you will meet. we can cope with the most ludicrous of concepts in media but even we looked at each other after this episode aired and went "what the hell was that"

[@PaulAndroid]

What makes this episode even more frustrating is the fact that it was supposed to be righting a wrong from the classic series. Moffat wanted Steve Thompson to write this because "The Invasion of Time" featured extensive looks of the inside of the TARDIS, but production issues led to the sets being extremely cheap and that episode overall ended up being mostly poorly regarded. Ironically, this episode also ended up suffering from budget issues and in a 2014 DWM poll it was rated in the bottom 10 stories of all time.

[@docskywalker51riftstudios58]

It did sought of fit moffats idea of a cinematic series even based on a movie with it's title

[@robertgairey5266]

The android twist does have its equally baffling equivalent in the classic era. Just wait til you experience the eyepatch twist in fourth Doctor story 'The Android Invasion'! 😉

[@werlost]

I would have liked the two brothers to be antagonists and the younger one to be an actual android. At the end he could be the only one who actually acts human.

[@jackrichardson9136]

Lol I used to really like this episode although Ik it’s not great

[@trekjudas]

You can still like it! Flaws and all!

[@lwaves]

@Jack Richardson Why don't you like it now, what changed? I like it even though it's far from perfect. I agree with some of Nathaniel's points to but they don't change my view of it. I'm curious what changed for you?

[@katsala918]

I think everything would’ve been better if we’d just had a straight exploration episode plus running from the burnt monsters, leaving out the scavengers all together. Oh well.

[@nightowl8477]

Personally, I've always hated this season's attempts to be 'CiNeMaTiC' with the titles. It cheapens the episodes to pastiche, when Doctor Who should be doing more than pastiche!

[@werlost]

I liked seeing the other parts of the tardis besides the console room. I would have liked more about the library and the book about the book on the time war.

[@flibbityfloo1779]

The running trend with Series 7b is that none of the stories (except Crimson Horror) make any sense.

[@k.stewart007]

Absolutely agree about alot of doctor who stories not needing monsters. The woman who lived, and so many more I just can't think of right now, would have been so much better without the monster of the week, and theres stories like fathers day and sleep no more where they couldn't have just deleted the monster, but would have been better without an actual monster, but had different consequences to what was going on. More personal and emotional consequences rather than just making a nasty looking monster a angry. The monsters in this I just was daft. I know it's only science fiction, but they're burned humans? Burned to crisp and acting like a zombie. 🙄

[@samuelbarber4154]

I must say, I somewhat enjoyed the episode, but I think it may have worked better without the salvagers or even the Time Zombies, just have the Doctor looking for Clara as they both go on an adventure throughout the TARDIS. Seriously, think about the stuff you can do, find past console rooms, repeating rooms, labyrinth like, hey, maybe even have more of those past incarnation flashbacks or whatever they were. We could have even had the return of that secondary console room from Tom Baker's era. Though I did like the Eye of Harmony reference, making it clearer, prior to Night of the Doctor, that the 1996 movie is canon. The twist was some pointless, though, that I just wish they weren't there at all. I give Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS: 5/10

[@CoalDiamondandhisawesomeness]

This feels like one of those stories where the writers have a bunch of small ideas that can't fill a whole story so they just mash them together

[@phoebica]

If you look through the newspspers, there are sadly often reports of people committing terrible things (arson, cruelty...) simply because they are bored. So the brothers doing this to the little brother for no reason... not so farfetched

[@CouncilofGeeks]

It’s not that I can’t possibly buy it ever but it’s too big a leap to make with characters I don’t know in a context where it doesn’t matter.

[@deebeedaydreamer]

I always thought it was revealed the monsters were trying to warn their past selves about the radiation and not trying to attack them at all. But I guess that was me injecting plot-hole-filler in hindsight.

[@stephengoss9108]

I get the impression that they wanted to be really clever and meta with the whole “Clara’s just a normal person” arc, but unfortunately that isn’t satisfying for a show like Doctor Who

[@jacksithlord1301]

Have you ever seen legion?

[@kaiaz2096]

Love your videos!

[@koivunen2489]

I agree that the twist is pointless but I still like it. Though, I think that should be a story in and of itself. There aren't that many stories about abusive sibling dynamics and it would be interesting to see what essentially a children's show would do with it if handled properly.

[@roxxychik06]

I really liked this one. The thing about the brothers are so wrong and sad. The fire creatures are kinda dumb but they were fine. The tardis is awesome.

[@thegamingninja3578]

I never really thought but what are the chances that the doctor would turn off certain shields for the tardis only to be hit by a weapon that the shields would have protected them from a few seconds later

[@thegamingninja3578]

That was a horrible explanation lol but you know what I mean

[@CouncilofGeeks]

What are the odds it would happen twice within as many regenerations consider that was the same explanation for Time Crash.

[@thegamingninja3578]

@@CouncilofGeeks true

[@drummerwarrior1]

Pretty accurate summing up.

[@alexpotts6520]

Monsters here are pointless, but for me the worst offender in that regard is the invisible turkey-dinosaur in Vincent and the Doctor.

[@alexturlais8558]

I kind of disagree, I think it makes sense in the story. Its symbolic of depression and mental illness, and helps explore Vincent's mental state.

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Yeah Vincent and the Doctor has a reason for that monster to a) exist and b) operate three way it does (though you have to glom onto the metaphor of depression because if you’re taking it at face value then it might throw you off).

[@alexpotts6520]

@@CouncilofGeeks I get the metaphor, but it's the same point you made about the Slitheen - yeah, it's a metaphor for politicians talking crap but also, they're farting aliens and couldn't you have gotten that message across in a way that didn't involve farting aliens? I just feel the story could have been better if we'd been given more lowkey Vincent stuff without a monster, metaphorical or not. My own opinion is that the shoehorned-in monster makes what would have been one of the best episodes in the modern run into something that's merely in the 7/10 range.

[@Scroteydada]

A few moffat stories kinda get bored of existing and then just end

[@CouncilofGeeks]

Moffat didn’t script this one.

[@standardgrapes]

I love this episode

[@strbourne]

Me too, but it’s interesting to see other people’s point of view

[@sbi168]

Its a flawed episode , if they would have gotten rid of the stupid salvage idea i think it would have been better. I like elements of it, but i do not like the guest cast. I also hate the "pretend bomb" threat idea, it has some really random ideas that never quite hold together. I think clara is good and 11 is always solid but, yeah the guest cast are not great (not that the actors are bad, just the whole idea, doesnt work for me)

[@nightowl8477]

The 'Big Friendly Button' annoys me. No one remembers anything - does the Doctor even remember? No one learns a lesson. No one changes. Utterly pointless in every way.

[@AlexFyrehartDGAFCave]

It's kind of a running joke on a podcast I'm on that most of the group consider this to be the WORST episode of Doctor Who ever made. At least in the New Who era. Personally I think The Gunfighters is worse overall but this episode is extremely forgettable to the point I didn't remember ever having seen it until I re-watched it more recently.

[@highvoltage7797]

Just an observation but modern fans seem to defend every episode no matter the quality. Unless it’s a 13th Doctor story.

[@thomasdegroat6039]

I think the TARDIS is a great setting and is super underutilized. I love when they explore it. I think that’s also what’s disappointing about this episode, not enough time spent exploring, too much time spent running from forgettable monsters in nondescript hallways.

[@nightowl8477]

It's better in concept than execution. Ultimately, the TARDIS will never be more than a set of corridors. Best kept to the imagination.

[@jadude378]

I always thought this episode was pointless as well

[@oldsouplegs7384]

For me I find this story to be a bad version of the god complex...the being lost in a maze and chanced by a monster was done spectacularly in that... I agree this did not need the monsters or the crew... they could have opened with them trying to scavenge the tardis but them bringing it on board destroys there ship and there all dead... then the story continues with the dr and Clara on their own...

[@kevin10001]

To me this episode feels like a filler episode like for example the kind of episodes the arrowverse does that have nothing to do with the plot of the season but are made to fill out the 22 episode count the are supposed to have and this episode is just like that cause it adds nothing to the running plot of this half of the season and they could have done something with the idea of Clara knowing the doctor's name cause she claimed to have found it out while trying to find the doctor like it was something the would be like she has this name running through the back of her mind and Clara being like why do I know this name or something

[@ospero7681]

I've never liked this one, and that's mostly down to "what was the point of that?" They're not really doing anything exciting with the premise, they're not developing the characters (because "alternate timeline" and all), so why even make this in the first place? I'm not a fan of "this didn't really happen" as a final story resolution (see also: Star Trek Voyager's "Year of Hell" two-parter), but add no significant character development to that, and it's just pointless and a waste of my time - not to the degree of "The Power of Three", which I'd argue is worse, but close.

[@kaiaz2096]

Wait your hair, it’s not dyed no more

[@lwaves]

I believe it's just tied back. With that and the fez, you can only see a small amount of hair and can't see the dyed areas. :-)

[@ink_blot25]

This is a really weird one for me. On one hand, the episode has great ideas and sets despite the budget (and I liked the reveal of the monsters being The Doctor and Clara from the future) On the other hand the rest of it is bland and forgettable

[@michaelv4871]

I’m not even sure on my opinion of this episode! I recently rewatched the entire show for the first time in years. I watched this episode and liked it! But then I started to think about it and I realized that I didn’t understand what had happened. Stephen Thompson is one of Doctor Who’s worst writers! Curse of the Black Spot was terrible! That said, I really liked exploring the TARDIS a bit! I’m also not sure if I like the side characters or not! Very weird episode!

[@sbi168]

i dont know why everyone hates curse of the black spot, i mean its not great. but its fun and silly romp which while i wont go out of my way to watch, its a fun aside when i get to it.

[@PaulAndroid]

He's kind all over the place as a writer. I don't care for any of his "Doctor Who" stories, but he did write "The Reichenbach Fall" from "Sherlock" which might be my favorite episode of that show.

[@michaelv4871]

PaulAndroid I love The Reichenbach Fall! I’m just not a huge fan of his Doctor Who work.

[@michaelv4871]

sbi168 The reason I hate it is because it has pirates and it doesn’t really use them. Besides one scene at the beginning, the pirates are completely wasted. That story could’ve taken place on a modern day navy ship! I just don’t understand how they had pirates and didn’t use them!

[@danielsleeper2307]

Honestly, I feel like most of us would vent something bottled-up in the scenario where we view the impact and then the other person forgets it. Also, I think they threw in the Time War book and Clara finding (something) *because* it would be "reversed"

[@27danjel]

Can this season end already? It's awful.

[@tomwood4610]

I hate this one

[@phuttyyt]

One of the worst episodes of the series ever made IMO .

[@KerstinMamma]

TBH most of series 7 is trash, the worst season of new who

[@benw4409]

7A with Amy and Rory is decent, 7B and the introduction of Clara is when things go downhill and the show doesn't recover after that for a while IMO.

[@Tharries]

KerstinMamma: Series 7 is the worst season of new who. Series 11: Am I a joke to you?

[@KerstinMamma]

@@Tharries Hahahahaha 🤣🤣 no but seriously series 7 is the worst. Series 11 is mediocre, got like 2ish really bad episodes and 2 decent and 1 pretty good and the rest are forgettable so to me it's mediocre and not the worst just forgettable. I remember series 7 because of how trash it was.

[@KerstinMamma]

@@benw4409 I hate 7A, it is objective poor writing and reused ideas and I hate Amy but love Rory.

[@scottbennie8299]

What an unmitigatiingly awful episode.

[@SomeRandomGuy908]

Yeah, I take you less seriously with every review you've put up from S6 onwards. Maybe you're just not a fan of this style, because this episode is great, so are most of these episodes

[@Emme-Kappa]

Awful episode