From “Hopeless” to Nose Down in 9 Throws! | Private lesson w/Throw Coast

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

This is me working through Throw Coast's nose down issues. You are a different person with perhaps the same or different issues. If you would like private lessons to get your issues fixed, visit www.patreon.com/overthrowdiscgolf and sign up for one of the private lesson tiers and we will get things sorted out :)

[@kruksog]

This could be a great series. Find someone with a super common issue, and work them through it. Like, id love to see one on rounding, blowing past the brace, failing to find the pocket, etc. Thanks again. OT is the best.

[@ThrowCoast]

Bringing Hope to the Hopeless🙏😎, lol; thanks, Josh, for pointing me in the right direction! I also see a fair amount of comments on my range of motion. This could be true, and I agree that working on stretching could really improve this. There are so many great points to this session. What was most valuable to me is that I know what to do, how to do it, and what it should feel like; the rest is practice. I highly recommend working with Josh, either in person or via video coaching. - Ryan (the hopeless one ;-)

[@zoeyspeace]

I only made it through half of this video and just went and practiced… game changer… I’ve never been able to figure out how to consistently feel if it was nose down out of my hand… this is so easy

[@SpencerLeppert]

Excellent advice Josh! And it totally worked for me. I have been struggling with nose-down for 3 years. My throw is similar to a Matty-O airbounce scoopy thing, negative launch angle with nose-up. I brought your key-points in this video to the practice field today with my TechDisc. I threw 2 stacks of disc with the TechDisc buried in the stack and just thinking about: lower reachback, finish above my shoulder, and finish palm up. Tech Disc said launch angle= 12 and nose angle = -4.5. Amazing! Why wasn't I able to figure this out before? You just made me a better Disc Golfer. Thank you!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Congratulations 🎉

[@dacks14]

That was a great lesson for youtube. I have a very similar issue and I am around the same age of your student. Your communication of what you are looking for is great. thanks for this.

[@jonathangarlinghouse]

Hey! My homie is on TV! Shoutout to Ryan at Throw Coast DG in lovely Leland, NC. Also, great video guys, and a great reminder. I've been throwing better since I met y'all!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

We’re homies now, right?

[@jonathangarlinghouse]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Of course! Homies in Christ and DG, my favorite kinds.

[@DriftWizard750]

Really good video, great job. I will start working on this tomorrow, thank you.

[@POWORDISC]

I could see the improvement across the video. Nice!

[@KevinSmithC]

I've been constantly throwing nose up, until I watched this video. For some reason it clicked for me when others didn't. Now I'm throwing too nose down , but I can work with that.

[@chrisblood1971]

Great video, great concept. I’m working on a lot of these same things, and there’s a bunch of good stuff here. But I wanted to say a particular thanks for the demonstrated concept of shoulder position being the difference between anhyzer and nose down. That clicked a bunch of concepts into place for me.

[@zssaiyajin]

Great video, guys! The coaching is just top notch!

[@Mdjagg]

Thank you sir! More videos teaching how to practice would be such a gift.!

[@SnowTroIl]

Been having some elbow/shoulder issues this year and nose up has been a big issue. This video really highlighted the reason why. Time get some physiotherapy and do mobility exercises!

[@billbittick]

lol. This is like watching a rewind of my first two lessons with Josh.

[@andrewb9942]

Super helpful to see someone else try to work through it.

[@jojox97]

Surprised to see Throw Coast on my feed. Love this shop. Sup, Ryan!

[@GoodStarfish]

most useful training video by a good margin

[@drtbke]

Getting the nose down on a disc is the equivalent of forward shaft lean of the golf club at impact. The power pocket is equivalent to getting the golf club into the slot, which allows you to deliver that powerful swing with the shaft lean, compressing the ball into the ground making it go up, and far.

[@deadave6127]

Cool store glad I stopped in!

[@mr.watertwister9810]

Throw coast is my local disc golf shop!! One of a kind location… great people and great disc selection!!! Ask for Ryan (the guy receiving instruction… who is actually really good at disc golf).

[@Iliyena87]

@ 8 minutes 35 seconds it is so apperent that he just wants to keep going directely, thats the feeling a coach loves to instil but hates to stop but its probably the best place to add the next part so the mind simply won't mess stuff up analyzing and going back or overcorrect in the wrong way xD

[@jonasaronsson2971]

nose up gang love this video

[@brendonmccarthy8233]

Great video, recently just got my tech disc and literally playing with got to this same point. Was throwing alot of anhyzer but now I know how to begin to fix it. Also need to get my spin up. Thanks for everything.

[@NilsHoffmannDK]

Great, actionable instructions! I like the slow motion practice. Reminds me of my guitar teacher who called this "finger tai-chi" (changing chords very slowly to teach the brain a new motion). I also get the anhyzer issue with the roll and suspect that my wrist bends to much before the hit.

[@Corrigan65_]

Unsheathe the sword? Never heard that boss... LOVE THAT☯ Having said that, a lot going on in this quickdraw that I'm going to be paying very much attention to.

[@TAFNAP69]

Awesome video exactly what I am working on with a tech disc myself. I followed your instructions as if I was the pupil and am able to get nose down now but only with high launch angle (20+ degrees). As soon as I try to lower the launch angle or flatten (less hyzer) the nose angle goes right back up to 3-5 degrees nose up. Any suggestions I could try? I really appreciate all the videos I have been watching for 2+ years now and learned everything I know from you and Mikey.

[@merk345]

YES! YES! YES! This must be how Neo felt when he learned Kung Fu. I know I'm close so this is gonna get me there

[@SwordOfAndariel]

Thank you for confirming that "5 degree or less hyzer" is essentially anhyzer. My "flat" throws on the techdisc were at about 10 degree hyzer. But on the course, when throwing a neutral or OS disc flat, they flew flat. Not sure if that is a techdisc fault, or just wobble + follow through correcting them to stabilize to actually fly flat.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Not a TechDisc problem. I think it just informed us that what we perceive as anhyzer is actually a tiny bit of hyzer that flips immediately

[@nealwagenman8764]

This couldn't be timed out any better. I'll be contacting you soon regarding my new nose down technique.

[@awyoung706]

Working with the TechDisc guys, the ideal distance nose / launch is around -2° nose and +10° launch angle

[@edgarpung5843]

I’m still waiting for a tee box geometry or ‘aim’ series you mentioned way back in building the backhand.

[@OsrsCaleb]

Idea for a physical feeling for the the hand going high might be a balloon or something for them to swing for at like a natural height

[@jinksphoton]

Perfect timing! I just got a tech disc lol

[@rickcollins5009]

Great example of how to move forward with nose angle issues. One thing I believe would really help is to have a few examples of pros interspersed here and there in slow mo showing how they do what they do in relation to what you are teaching here. I'm very curious to see how someone like Antila achieves good nose and launch angles with his generally upright style.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Antilla is generally not upright. But it would have been useful reference for KZbin purposes. I didn’t have much time to go back and forth during this lesson.

[@rickcollins5009]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Perhaps the wrong description - "upright." I mean his elbow and general process seems so high up in comparison.

[@triplespace007]

First time turn the key ever meant something to me. After testing it out, I seem to come out at a flat to slightly down palm...also you explained why my hyzer comes out anni occasionally while focusing on nose down.

[@Scraping-Micha]

17:05 Question: The "combinated nose angle": Together added arround 4 to 6°... Just in Tech-disc? Whats the reason for that? I always thought nose angle should always be kind of the same relative to the launch angle. Why (3°NA at 10°LA and -5°or-6°NA at 13°LA??

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Nose angle is relative to launch angle already. So when tech disc is showing you -3° on a 10° launch it is already taking the launch into account for the nose angle calculation.

[@Scraping-Micha]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Thank you for answering! And why is a more negative nose angle recommended for steeper launch angles?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@Scraping-Micha because the disc will stall out. Think about a plane flying directly upward. Even if the nose is down it still have to climb

[@Scraping-Micha]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf THX! :)

[@stuartschwenke6656]

related to the backloaded grip that has a lot of discussion (and I will slide over there to watch that one), I have experienced a lot more elbow pain (Disc Golf Elbow) from the backloaded. Any additional discussion on addressing how to strength those backloading muscles?

[@joem8496]

I'm hopeless too so looking for your help!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Come on.

[@BelRiose2000]

How to see live simulation for the throw with techdisc?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

It’s a an option on the browser I believe.

[@tubedude709]

Is it possible to know how the nose angle changes as the disc flies with the techdisc

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I don’t think so.

[@spene93]

Any chance you have thought about injury instruction on this channel? I started and learned disc golf by throwing forehand, and didn't have any issues for years. I then started to hurt my arm, while throwing forehand, and was forced to switch to backhand. At this point I create pain in my arm for about 30%-50% of my forehands, and I have a friend who has the exact same problem with backhand, while he is learning how to throw backhand (he has no pain forehand). It would be awesome if you broke down down how you can mess up a throw, and address the pain that comes with it. For instance, I can throw a forehand (maybe 250-300 if I throw it well, and smooth), but it usually causes pain in my shoulder and tricep area.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I have thought about it but PT advice is a lane that I’m not sure I want to get into.

[@JasonLawrenceJones]

My index (pointer) finger recently got split wide open from throwning discs. I didn't take care of it and it got infected. So, it really hurt. The only way that I could keep playing and not have it hurt was to not use my index finger at all while throwing. This forced me to use a "backloaded grip" instead of using my index finger. Now, when I throw I can feel the disc ripping out of all my fingers somewhat equally and it allowed me to get more distance with less effort. I don't know if that is relevant, but I thought that I'd share it with you anyway. How can people that throw 600 feet not be blowing out their fingers on a regular basis?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I think there is a lot of working up to it for the 600’ guys. Fortunately they don’t have to immediately resist 600’ worth of disc rippage

[@djksan1]

@@OverthrowDiscGolfyeah this backloaded grip vs front loaded is a question mark… in the recent video with the 1700 rpm dude, I seem to recall the grip not really altering much? 🤔 That said, do you advocate in general for using backloaded (for drives) or does it depend on what’s going on in the individual’s throw mechanics?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@djksan1 I’m advocating for back loaded on drives. And with Zach Nash, his thumb repositions during his backswing from where it was initially which tells me he is backloading as well

[@baustin612]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf interesting, im squeezing as tight as i can with thumb/index i will try backloading more as i have issues with early release and grip lock, trying to get in the sweet spot is really tough for me.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@baustin612 yep. If you haven’t seen our most recent grip video I would recommend it

[@jacobbaugus6311]

One thing that caught my attention in this video was it seems like you were endorsing more of a backloaded grip when you were working on nose angle. Are you guys for more of a backloaded grip in general?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Yep. Check out our most recent video on grip for more info.

[@jacobbaugus6311]

​@@OverthrowDiscGolf just re-watched the grip video. Thanks for the redirect! I say re-watched loosely because I'm guessing I was also watching the kids at the same time to not remember 😂 I typically burn these things into my brain. As always, I appreciate what you all have done for the sport and my own game!

[@anderschristianhaldpederse8472]

just TYPICAL !!! im watching this video on work, thinking WOW I NEED TO GO HOME AND TRY THIS.... then take a glance out of the window... its pouring down outside... F***** !!!!! :D

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Same here

[@KINGPROPH3T623]

I would like to know where to find that lion shirt dude is wearing?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Go to the ThrowCoast website and I’m sure you’ll find what you’re looking for!

[@Juliano_DJOL]

He is over turning the shoulder before the release looks like he needs to let his arm pull his shoulders thru after releasing, like he is 45deg past where he shld be when releasing it

[@RobRoane]

So we don’t want a front loaded grip for long drives?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Correct. With the advent of TechDisc that has been mostly debunked I believe.

[@RobRoane]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf that’s interesting! This whole video was super helpful as when I turn the key I end up burning it over to the right. Need to work on leaning forward a bit more and keeping that elbow up.

[@ryanholmes8781]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf So glad to hear this and can concur via TD. Front loaded feels so weak to my hand compared to back loaded. Also the "line the disc with the crease of the hand" grip feels very weak and strangely not that effective on the nose angle for me.

[@jamesfarabaugh6669]

@@ryanholmes8781 I think it's a starting point, but there's more to it, such as using the fingers to push the plate up into the meat of your palm (not just squeezing the rim). I just recently added to it. I run the crease, wrap my fingers around and squeeze them up on the plate, then with my off hand I pull up on the back of the disc to make sure it's really firmly against the meat of my palm. It's just anecdotal, but I think it helps.

[@joem8496]

This not a new concept but has been getting more publicity w tech disc to prove it. Spin doc has a video on it explaining how back loaded gives more whip by allowing a loose wrist. I still can't do it.

[@scottkohnle7014]

When I "Turn the Key" I throw like - 14 nose down which is way to much. I've tried either speeding up my arm to make it harder to throw that nose down but I can't seem to avoid it. It seems like if I don't turn the key I get more like -2 nose down but I get way more wobble...

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Turn it a little less?

[@scottkohnle7014]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf yeah definitely need to work on it more. It's almost like if I try to not turn it at all, at least from what I can feel, that I get more optimum nose angle, which probably means that I naturally rotate my wrist during the throw. Not sure if this causes a lot of wobble or not. May have to invest in some form reviews lol.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@scottkohnle7014 that’s the end goal. Not focus and still nose down. You beat the final boss

[@Nolast12503]

Is turn the key required for nose down? Anything else i can do instead? I kinda hate turn the key... but want nose down. Just seems to add inconsistency when i turn the key... sometimes the nose down is extreme, sometimes its just late hit and anny.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

It is required imo

[@kyleweir689]

I’ve never done this “turn the key” thing, and so many pros don’t either, and I’ve never had any issues throwing with the nose down.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@kyleweir689 every pro throwing nose down that we have data on has some combo of supination and external rotation into the hit.

[@letsgobrody5608]

For those without a tech disc what is the best way to know you're nose down? I can't see the top of my disc but I think I'm still nose up. Or a disc that exaggerates the result of nose up or down?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

You just have to watch the flight basically. If it stalls when it gets out of turn instead of pushing then you’re nose up

[@R2D93]

So if part of the process is getting the body over the disc and having that swing plane go low to high with the palm going from face down to face up, how does that not result in just an extreme amount of hyzer? How does that work when trying to throw flat or anhyzer to shape a shot?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

When you roll it naturally decreases the hyzer angle a bit.

[@baustin612]

curious on the grip portion in the beginning of the video, sounded like you said light at the thumb and index and strong at the back of the hand? so backloaded in a sense?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Correct. If you want to really go deep on it I would check out most recent “how to grip the backhand” video. It’s quite comprehensive

[@Rytubes]

Out of curiosity, how are the folks who don’t “briefcase” the disc or have an obvious turning of the key motion throwing nose down? Are they starting with their wrist supinated and holding it throughout the throw?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Briefcase is just the most extreme Randle of motion. You can do a smaller turn key from a less pronated arm position. It’s just tougher to learn from I think initially.

[@cmlasley]

How do you keep the off-axis torque from "turning the key" from increasing wobble? It seems like most of the pros have really low wobble, but it is hard to see any of them turning the key in coverage, aside from Ricky.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Yep. This is obviously GG levels of turn the key which not everyone does to that extent. Techdisc has never shown me increased wobble with this.

[@brandonwyoungblood]

How can I get lessons

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

patreon.com/overthrowdiscgolf You will see the different tiers and what kind of lessons or form reviews there!

[@ericmerg6718]

I just tried this with my techdisc and saw immediate improvement on nose angle but a 10mph decrease in speed, i assume thatll go away with reps?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Decreases in speed are expected when changing something like this. Start to normalize the throw and lessen the exaggerated turn motion and you should get back up eventually

[@ericmerg6718]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf i worked back up to 52mph ( average normal is 56 so not super far off ) and kept 2-4⁰nose down so that's an improvement but wobble is out of control.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@ericmerg6718 check your grip and make sure it is secure without a bunch of thumb pressure. The thumb should be secure, not pushing hard

[@ericmerg6718]

I got my speed back, wobble acceptable, but I can't seem to break the anhyzer

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@ericmerg6718 where is the disc coming out?

[@drtbke]

Josh is the Butch Harman or David Ledbetter of disc golf instruction.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I’m unworthy of such high praise, but will work to follow in their footsteps. Thank you

[@drtbke]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf you are on your way dawg! you are a pioneer, making a path that's not there yet. i love it. Makes me want to quit my nice job and come work with yall in some form or another. maybe one day!

[@TM-DGG]

Does he have limited ROM in his shoulder? Seems like he is really struggling to get any separation between his torso and elbow. And he doesn't seem to be able to follow through high. For him, stretching may be far more beneficial than throwing.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Unsure about the mobility issues

[@TheStrangerlol]

I was kinda thinking the same thing when watching. He had a difficult time bringing his hand above his shoulder let alone above his head, especially when he was trying to over exaggerate.

[@derrickxu8364]

How do you set it up alongside the simulator?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

The TechDisc has a simulator function on the app/browser

[@derrickxu8364]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Oh I always use it with my phone, guess the app doesn't have that. I'll drag out the laptop next time, seems much more fun being able to see the simulation.

[@torymblue2000]

been away, new shop? like the space

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

This is actually at ThrowCoast in NC. We went down to run some clinics

[@flo-motion]

Oh You are teaching a backloaded grip? - is that the secret to nose down? I tried it a few times and it feels weird

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Not the secret but it is a part of it for sure

[@kruksog]

Looks like homeboy might have some shoulder mobility issues. He seems almost incapable of swinging the arm above the head on the swing. Great video. You guys always do such good stuff.

[@discsmd]

It wasn't 9 throws! CLICK-BAIT! I am the click-bait police. :) Great content! Great insights! Thanks for talking about the shoulders opening creating an anhyzer release. Don't think that is well understood.

[@wraith8977]

How can I get a 1 on 1 lol

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Patreon link in the description or in person in Lynchburg, Va.

[@bradybenware4464]

Great video, cool setup at throw coast. Couldn't help but notice at 8:12 "It's hard to tell without slo-mo" - what about realtime slo-mo playback with every throw like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a2PVfIpsh8h5oMk

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

That’d be cool.

[@fathomz]

how dare you not bring him to the field after.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

We dost dare. But I had back to back lessons at his shop so that would have been difficult

[@adambroussard8192]

Would have been hilarious if you didn’t put hopeless in quotes

[@khalob19]

It’s got to be so hard to just coach him on getting the nose down. When there is so many other things wrong with his throw that aren’t allowing him to do the one thing your coaching him to do.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

We hit on other things that needed addressing along the way. There’s definitely other stuff to fix but sometimes nose angle takes some precedence

[@leightaft7763]

Bro can’t lift his arm?

[@TheOriginalProFessrrr]

Your words are positive but your body language and demeanor show you're getting irritated lol

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

😂 that’s just my welcoming smile.

[@TheOrignalProFessrr]

@@OverthrowDiscGolfhaha right right 🤣 how much do these sessions cost?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@TheOrignalProFessrr $100/hr. This was a half hour session

[@TheOrignalProFessrr]

@@OverthrowDiscGolfsweet thanks boss!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@TheOrignalProFessrr yessir

[@oO-oz4ze]

this came across as a poor teacher that doesnt care about his student. this guy didnt learn jack didly, then they want him to say he learned to throw nose down. guaranteed that lesson didnt help shit

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

You right. You right