Owen Jones meets Loki the Scottish Rapper | 'Corbyn has interrupted regular programming'

[@OwenJonesTalks]

Darren/Loki's book is available here: www.guardianbookshop.com/poverty-safari.html He also has a KZbin channel, which I'm going to subscribe to now. Hopefully you will too: kzbin.info

[@wdirtymonkey]

wow, he's incredibly sharp and erudite.

[@joermundgand]

Listen more this individual, he might actually be able to cure you of your loathing of the working class, your recent example of loathing is your inability to see why people of diverse religious backgrounds loathe religious extremism.

[@SkyEcho7]

👍

[@shadyberero6809]

Owen is laughable, if laughable would need to scramble up to objectivity - Owen is the Boris Johnson of the Guardian

[@daviddurkan23]

What an intelligent eloquent guy. How have i never heard of him. Hope he gets a bigger platform he speaks so much sense

[@rahulkemp8347]

eloquent??! lol

[@davidcrammond1926]

Never mind his book listen to his music

[@jaikent1916]

Only criticism of this interview is it should have been a lot longer. You should consider doing more podcast style interviews in a longer format to properly be able to thrash out the issues and go into depth.

[@whisperwednesday1]

Good interview- he's a very impressive chap.

[@zoolhert3535]

😂

[@sali-tr4jk]

i think this is one of the best interviews you've done yet! im not even half way through it and im already looking for the book!

[@thomassteele5748]

My grandpa left the Scottish poor by joining the British navy in WW2, marrying my gran and up and moving him, his wife and all their kids to Australia as 10 pound poms. They have had a better life in Aus than was available in Britain, all my extended family is doing well now.

[@zambrauk]

Good conversation, especially interesting about Loki's journey away from drug use.

[@chrisjames1924]

Smart guy. I like him.

[@Becci1066]

Fascinating insight. I have just bought the book and can't wait to get reading.

[@shenmeowzo]

Separated at birth?

[@ianrenberger7441]

I m reading Poverty Safari now . Points out what's happening at the moment and where the problem s come from and takes it from a working class view.

[@ianrosie4431]

That was a good interview. I 'd never listened to Loki before. He's switched on. Could we do Mark Blyth?

[@grayzytube]

Not 'having' in a society which values materiel acquisition and accumulation, where 'having' is prized more than 'being', isn't cured by everyone having more, it is a judgement on the basis of a very sick society.

[@andyb3320]

Nothing better than a vague, largely meaningless analysis of society.

[@arianrhodhyde7482]

it's not just about consumerism it's about people who don't have any way to heat their home or feed themselves. that does need to be goddamn fixed first.

[@karmabomb445]

It sounds as if you don't know or understand what Marxism actually is.The world of politics today is completely toxic with the most divisive ,self serving and disingenuous figures that I can remember ever to hold office. What I don't see are any Marxists in the bunch. Unchecked, rampant American capitalism is an evil force in society and dangerous for the planet. These are truly poisonous people who want us all to sell our souls and not care about society or our fellow man. As long as you're doing well fuck everybody else. More and more people are rejecting this dystopian vision for society and are looking to what Marx wrote to try and get a counterpoint or critique of the worst excesses of unfettered capitalism.

[@jonathaneddy]

Good interview, offers an important insight into Scottish political complexities.

[@erzan]

Jonathan E I lived in London and Scotland, please. There is nothing complex about Politics up north.

[@jonathaneddy]

Well there's a couple of layers of complexity not present across the most of the rest of the UK...Scottish independence and the way the Scottish government (local and national) in handling the effects of de-industrialisation. Use whichever noun you prefer, but I found the interview fascinating and it offered me an insight into his particular perspective that I haven't heard described so clearly.

[@karmabomb445]

Up north, as you say, we understand politics very clearly that's why the Brexit lies didn't hit home as much as in other parts. What wasn't said was people in Scotland see the SNP as a means to an end, not the be all and end all of Scottish politics. After independence we can vote in any party we want, even form new parties. Its the system we want to change and no one but the SNP is offering us anything at all. Labour are irrelevant to us and showed their true colours at the Indy ref. It was the Labour attack dogs of Darling, Milliband and Brown that were sent to threaten and lie to us. I had voted Labour all my adult life unquestioningly until that time. The so called working class party telling Scottish working class people that they would block, fight and sabotage ant attempts by us to improve our futures. Its like realising your partner of many years not only doesn't love you but would actually undermine you any chance they got. Thin line between love and hate and that line's been crossed.

[@dopesensi]

What Loki says about Scottish independence is also why most voted for Brexit- exact same points. Was Loki behind Brexit ?? I doubt it. "To control immigration, to control our own tax money " ... Double speak. This is the problem with Scottish independence and Brexit - they get all confused. But like the left's "women's rights,gay rights and Muslim rights" - don't make sense,

[@jackhenry8792]

With respect I don't think you listened. He said quite clearly that while he personally voted Remain he felt a lot of solidarity with Brexit voters in England. His views on Scot-Ind and Brexit were perfectly nuanced.

[@samrosenthal5633]

Please do an interview with Akala or Lowkey. Would be great to see!

[@babextria]

Good work in putting up a genuine working class person on your channel. Politicians are interesting but its nice to have a change in people sometimes.

[@StarkeysGal666]

Loki is an inspiration, even if we don't always agree. His views can occasionally come across as a little jarring from my perspective, but it's only because I haven't shared the same experiences and in my opinion experience shapes a lot of your view of the world. Great interview, both of you.

[@vivalarevolution1384]

Owen can you interview Akala

[@khadija6140]

Viva La Revolution yhhhh and lowkey

[@brucefindlay]

Excellent interview Owen ... Loki already well known to many of us up here (Scotland) firstly through his rapping and more recently through his blogging and writing... great guy. I voted remain, and no btw ✌

[@Christopher_175]

Can't take Loki seriously after his pish about being scared to walk on a bridge over the Clyde cos a gust of wind might blow him into the river. Fud.

[@liborsionko]

Ghost_Hands Whit?...?? Maybe best to let that go and move on.

[@daviedovey]

is there an English language version of this?

[@liborsionko]

Lucien Rubempre It's a UK regional accent. We have many in all corners of these Islands. Something to value. Alongside the accents come regional views - all adds to the diversity of perspectives - a good thing for an enquiring mind...no?

[@karmabomb445]

Lucien Rubempre - stupid name, stupid comment.

[@mgrimble3975]

The whole Personal responsibility shtick needs challenging in general, its very easy for others to judge someone in crisis and say well it's your own fault if you had not done a, b, c, etc. Like many homeless people don't become alcoholics or drug addicts until after they become homeless as its a way of taking the pain away. Huge numbers of people have undiagnosed mental health problems to boot meaning their decision-making skills are impaired to begin with.

[@awesomeavenger2810]

_Like many homeless people don't become alcoholics or drug addicts until after they become homeless_ Really? Where is the evidence for that? Go to your local hospital, check out their mental health ward, and you will be amazed at the number of patients who are there because of drug abuse. 'Empowerment' should be about taking responsibility for yourself. Instead it has become just another way of demanding something from someone else.

[@mikeyteee95]

He's only speaking from his own experience... He's a recovering addict and has been through a lot of shit himself, I think he's qualified to speak about it

[@SkyEcho7]

M grimble👍

[@karmabomb445]

Awesome Avenger there is a ton of evidence directly linking drug addiction with social,economic and mental issues.On the point of personal responsibility I agree that people should be responsible for their own actions but what happens if people mess up, for whatever reason, do we turn our backs? Be a bit empathetic with people you don't know what happened to make them like they are and we are not immune from the same pressures or circumstances affecting us. If you still don't agree, fair enough, but be careful and stay happy, healthy and wealthy or someone might be saying this stuff about you.

[@SkyEcho7]

@@karmabomb445 👍

[@grant1133]

He did say a lot of things that make sense but I disagree wholeheartedly with his support for independence while voting labour. To me those two are incompatible. A left wing labour government is only a temporary fix to a very long term problem with the union with any change easily undone , at least in an independent Scotland it would be more representative of our country when major policies are made rather than the temporary fix UK labour might offer those on the Scottish left.

[@SkyEcho7]

grant1133 👍

[@karmabomb445]

grant1133 exactly!! I don't think the English public understand what's happening up here. They are being told there is no appetite for independence when in fact the movement is bigger and stronger than its ever been. Labour could still have a role to play in Scottish politics but that will be in an independent Scotland but as it stands they are nowhere. We want a plan, a direction and long term goals not uncertainty and political point scoring and maybe getting the government you voted for once every twenty years. The union doesn't serve us ,we are sick of generating all this wealth to receive nothing in return or at best scraps from the top table. Westminster doesn't even serve England as a whole. It serves London first, then the rest of us fight and argue over leftovers. Most of us, the majority of people, consider the union dead, we're just waiting on the paperwork.

[@SkyEcho7]

@@karmabomb445 👍

[@fartpoopums9968]

Can't help but feel like if you haven't asked this guy about the article he wrote blaming female victims for the domestic violence they face, the multiple times he's threatened or told critics to kill themselves, the fact that for a very long time he openly identified as a misogynist or his apologia for various MRA types you've kind of fucked up.

[@alexalex8270]

Interesting, source?

[@eldaytripper2]

Load of pish. Complete lies.

[@alexalex8270]

Woah! That was a bit of a climb down.

[@semiskimmedbeats]

so... no proof at all then

[@fartpoopums9968]

Three articles and a bunch of tweets that you can easily find yourself alongside a bunch of video and social media posts on his other accounts aren't proof?

[@shadyberero6809]

This is, by far, one of worst interviews ever. Owen is trying, slavishly, sooking up to Darren, Owen is totally overwhelmed by " real working class". Darren talking some points and pure pish

[@lennysprent6900]

If you like Loki check out LOWKEY. Palestinian-british has a lot to say about grenfell and the establishment! Great rapper/poet

[@karmabomb445]

If I was English I would vote for Corbyn, he seems to be a genuinely good man with genuinely socialist policies but we in Scotland are now so completely removed from the Labour party he is irrelevant to us. The present Labour leader in Scotland, Richard Leonard, doesn't know which matters are devolved or retained and like the two Labour leaders before him is seen as a joke figure. Thank God for Nicola and the SNP because without them we would only have a straight choice between the hated Tories and the ineffectual Labour party who both offer us nothing.

[@dannymack9636]

Great interview man

[@Patrick-jj5nh]

Hey Owen I recently had the pleasure to film a series of lectures with Lord Robert Skidelsky, he seems like a genuinely great guy with some interesting thoughts on a number of subjects from ethics in economics to UBI etc - perhaps worth trying to see if you can get an interview?

[@OCTAVIANAUGUSTUS1985]

Excellent Analysis

[@rippedinglasgow]

Owen - what's the spoon in the cup all about? Take it out man.

[@shadyberero6809]

And at 7:52 pure pish. Who does Loki think are the councillors, who stand for election? Who does he think are the MSPs who stand for election?

[@LCD72]

Hey Owen, another great interview, thanks. Have you considered having a chat with Prof Richard Murphy? He has an interesting perspective on the government's ability to manage the economy (which he says is much greater than we have been led to believe under neoliberalism).

[@Sharkyg1985]

Love this guy. The simplicity of the left is so frustrating at times.

[@jamesjohnson2394]

Simplicity is a word that defines the right. It's like they have no basic critical thinking. They're pure slogan politics and just general belief in myths and nonsense. The right's departure from facts is deeply, deeply concerning but thankfully we are seeing a fightback.

[@Chris-oz9qx]

James Johnson fightback???? Most of the Western world are moving right due to the hypocrisy of the left.

[@patrickclarke8623]

Hi Owen, Could you interview George Galloway? Discussing Brexit from a left leaning point of view.

[@Screamifyoumeanit]

Why the dichotomy? Just different versions of the same lives... I "get you" do you "get me?"

[@McFraneth]

Ongoing stress suppresses the immune system and opens the door to auto-immune diseases such as Fibromylgia and Lupus.

[@admiralawesomeDC]

Great interview Jonesy

[@philipbowden8065]

how unlike PMQ'S

[@paul5899]

Fantastic

[@rafaelloadi3923]

please can you interview akala the rapper

[@FB-mw5gv]

Yeah get akala on or even lowkey would be good.

[@FB-mw5gv]

If he's a racist then you need to go gather some evidence and send it to the police mate. No good spending rumours when u don't have evidence to back it up. Stop playing the victim

[@moneymayhem2000]

I grew up listening to Akala. It's not untrue to say he hates this country

[@pgl0897]

Swift how is it possible to hate a country?

[@moneymayhem2000]

How is it possible to ask such a stupid question

[@earthslawyerai4155]

Scotland is sensible to want to cut ties with City of London Corporation and remain a full member of the EU. The country is much better positioned for the next decades than the rest of mainland Britain is, not only or least because of its renewable energy-generation potential. Given the rampant racism of the English, possibly the Scottish have good reason for thinking about a hard border too. Under most circumstances it would be a toxic move but there's history and reality to consider. As the coastal cities of England are flooded and become permanently uninhabitable, the racists will be looking for sympathy and dry beds. They should get neither, given the years of unrelenting, utter misery they have caused.

[@erzan]

You can't claim to give a damn about us working class one moment and then when told Scottish independence will cause an economic deficit shrug. It's us working class people who will suffer from underfunded healthcare and education services!

[@GoldieDawn]

Told by who exactly? The simple fact is Scotland has no borrowing powers or central bank so has no deficit. x :)

[@GoldieDawn]

Or legally any debt. x :)

[@erzan]

Goldie Dee Ignore the economic stats all you damn like. I am not wasting my energy debating this.

[@GoldieDawn]

They're all based on estimates and what has UK stats ( mind the treasury doesn't show the books ) got to do with an independent Scotland? x :)

[@erzan]

Goldie Dee ...

[@piratepear]

Have you ever interviewed Patrick Harvie?

[@bjpcorp]

He's wrong, Jeremy IS the centre from where the left & right diverge.

[@beegnutz]

This aged well.

[@KarlHamilton]

He's right. I voted leave to give David Hameron a bloody nose. Whoopsie x

[@kevinscarry6668]

I wonder wether Owen drinking his tea with the spoon in, made him feel working class? Look I’m one of you - your not!

[@Stalker-nv7gi]

Two 30 somethings talking about the Thatcher years, hahahahahaha! Boy, they must have read all the wrong books. 😂😂

[@richardshearer3041]

Do not ever say Glasgow again.

[@graffitijunkiejfk]

Poverty Safari is in my top 10 books I've read. As a way of a benchmark, The Greatest Show On Earth by Richard Dawkins and Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari are also in my top 10...

[@revelation3679]

So you're tell us you're anti-nature and anti-humanity then

[@paulpaul8861]

i see owen is starting to dress like tony benn.

[@unkiej]

two bangers

[@davidluard4145]

They look like twins!

[@andrewwatson4244]

Yeah but poor people don't matter, they should work harder and we don't want to be Venezuela blah blah. Not sure how you distribute wealth though, it isn't as easy as socialism makes it sound. Not sure how you solve individuality and community either!

[@Secular_Scot]

*Loki articulates the standpoint of us in the pro-indy Scottish left very well*

[@painbow6528]

It's a challenging book because... it also takes on the left. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[@aag24]

Please can you add subtitles. The auto-generated ones are very poor. Help your disabled brothers, Owen!

[@ex0duzz]

Great but challenging bock. Yes that's bock and not book lol. Everything the interviewer Owen jones says sounds normal with no real heavy accent like the interviewee Loki does except for that one word for some reason.. Owen Jones is English right? Then why does his accent on the word "book" sound so weird? I don't think other English speakers say it like that true? Sounds like he says book and ONLY book with some Scottish or Irish accent while the rest of his speech is "normal" English accent..

[@liborsionko]

ex0duzz Wrong. Regional al accents in the UK are many. He's from Stockpot via Sheffield hence his pronunciation. Nothing more than that. Vowel pronunciation is the key variant from one region to another.

[@karmabomb445]

Its what people have to say that's important, not the accent it's delivered in. This snobbery has been used for years to belittle and undermine political points made by working class people and Scots in particular. I think they have to understand we do not give a flying fuck how it sounds and we are in the majority. Your silly little prejudices are irrelevant to us, just like those who spew out these comments.

[@zoolhert3535]

😂😂

[@jamesburke2094]

Any anglophones who don't understand I can help with English subtitles.

[@djripsmusic]

You might want to ask a few more challenging questions next time eh.

[@JacobScott0000]

be funny if people actually meant Lowkey :P

[@rahulkemp8347]

i thought it was the other one .....

[@Judewilkinsonjfk]

I feel like you should have discussed whether free will actually exists.

[@grayzytube]

Why discuss what doesn't exist, read Sam Harris' book on the topic as a primer, then delve into the neurosciences to flesh it all out. Free will is a legal fiction, where would the law stand if 'intent' can't be proven?

[@Judewilkinsonjfk]

grayzytube I already have. However it would have been interesting to see Owen challenge his 'responsibility' mantra. Interview seemed a bit toothless.

[@mikeyteee95]

I agree with Harris on free will but are you saying that absolves us of all responsibility in life? Lol

[@paulpaul8861]

sam harris isn't a neuroscientist.

[@nitaigauranga3849]

Scotish Jamie Carragha?

[@paulpaul8861]

owen, go and speak to some real white working class people, not just politicians and celebs all the time.

[@BabylonianHebrew]

FIRST!

[@kzaman1]

Congratulations!

[@BabylonianHebrew]

t-thanks! :')

[@paulpaul8861]

hey. you're in lefty land, no one is first here, we are all equals, apart from corbyn with his £1.6 million pension.

[@thefalcon256]

Instead of Owen always asking questions, isn't it time he was asked one? I would like to ask him if he is a Communist, or does he at least sympathize with the Communist philosophy, bearing in mind that Communism is responsible for 100 million dead, and still counting? I know he is Socialist/Labour but I can remember when the Labour Party used to address each other as 'comrade' and during the mining strike (under Thatcher) my mining friends used to receive food parcels from Russia.........So is the Labour Party Communist or not?

[@semiskimmedbeats]

Not

[@awesomeavenger2810]

It has a shadow chancellor that said he has been looking forward to the collapse of capitalism all his life. And that "Marx, Lenin and Trotsky" were his most significant intellectual influences. So yeah. This is what selling Marxism looks like. Take a look at Venezuela to see the results.

[@semiskimmedbeats]

Awesome Avenger Regardless of who the Shadow Chancellor cites as influences if the Labour manifesto is not calling for a complete end to Capitalism and a transfer of the means of the production to the people then it is not Communist. If anything the current Labour Party is a moderate social democratic party similar to those in most Nordic countries (some of the most economically prosperous, happiest and most equal countries in the world.) Thanks for trying though! x

[@awesomeavenger2810]

Lol. I hardly think the governments of most Nordic countries long for the collapse of capitalism. Mainly because their economies would totally collapse along with it.

[@semiskimmedbeats]

Awesome Avenger I didn’t say they did. I said that the Labour manifesto aligns with their model of governing, and we should judge any political party on it’s manifesto not on tittle tattle and random out of context quotes from singular members of their party. Thanks for trying though! x

[@thefalcon256]

A 'Rapper' is bad enough, but a 'Scottish Rapper' sounds like hell. Will be giving it a big miss.

[@FB-mw5gv]

Lol hip hop is not for people like you if that's your attitude. Like me saying a 'sculpture' bad enough, but an English sculpture sounds like hell! Sound like a moron mate

[@paul5899]

Ahhhh what a shame you shall be missed! Ohh wait will you fuck.

[@verraguid]

yooooo 2 legends