Owon VDS3104 - a surprisingly decent USB oscilloscope.

Teardown pics of the lower-end version here:
www.eevblog.com...

[@Zauviir]

I bet they could get better software for free by making the interface documentation open so people could write their own stuff

[@MetalPhreakAU]

3 videos within a week! Christmas has come early :D Thanks mike

[@RyanBlace]

+1

[@kuro68000]

The USB interface is interesting. It's fairly slow, so I'm wondering if it is some kind of UART bridge. That would make isolation easier too. It just seems too slow for a proper USB 2.0 bulk interface. As for the connector I imagine the chose it to force the user to use their Y cable for the increased current supply. Annoying but cuts down on support requests.

[@JN.0_o]

You mention that it would be nice to see the software working on a tablet, but you can go on amazon and pay about £120 for a 10" windows tablet that runs a regular version of windows 10 and should run the scope software just fine. The only potential problem is that you may have to power it from a power bank or something.

[@OneBiOzZ]

i had a few owon scopes over the years ... they all seem to have that stupid USB-A connector on them (even the bench top ones) ... one thing i did notice is on the one scope i used for a long time (battery powered benchtop scope) it had the ethernet in firmware and it was simply lacking the connector and the xfr ... placing one in actually worked! it might be worth probing!

[@fereydoonshekofte199]

Alyx BioHaz I am going to buy 3104 ! How do you compare a usb based to a standalone one ?

[@iamdarkyoshi]

I wonder when USB 3.0 scopes with a similar style to this one will be available. USB 3.0 can do 900mA, and has a far faster data transfer rate. Although, USB 3.0 is designed to be backwards compatible with 2.0 hardware, so it might be a challenge with power requirements and making the scope's hardware work with both 2.0 and 3.0...

[@MrOpenGL]

+Luke Den Hartog Most computers that I've come across except the Raspberry Pi and a 1998 Toshiba Satellite 2180CDT can handle up to 1.5A from a single USB port without getting below 4.50 V. Usually the buck converter and protection circuit is shared between all the ports so if you only use one port you can get up to 0.5A*the number of ports. Desktop PC front panel ports could be a problem because they usually have thin and long wires connecting them to the mainboard. Unpowered hubs are often a problem as well because of the same reasons. Ultimately, if supplied from a suitable 5V power source, the USB connector can give up to 5 A (official rating as per BERG connectors) and I've managed to get it to 8 A but then it gets fairly hot. 10A destroyed the connector :-)

[@iamdarkyoshi]

MrOpenGL I want FLAMES!! But to be honest, if 99% of USB ports on PCs could deliver more than the standard, but 1% cannot, I would still rather they use a solution that sticks to the standards. Because with my luck at least, I will be using a computer in that 1% category.

[@RWoody1995]

+Luke Den Hartog *Photonicinduction voice* :P POP IT!

[@shana_dmr]

MrOpenGL, I know your comment is 2 years old but in the past I've been dealing with devices (mainly USB connected DSL modems from certain French manufacturer) that abused this "can handle up to 1.5 A from single USB port without getting below 4.5 V" thing. It's such a beautiful thing to troubleshoot when you have keyboard, mouse and power-hungry ("you can fry an egg on the enclosure after few hours of work" style) DSL modem that will work only in certain configuration of ports that you plug them in and even with that because of inrush currents and race condition with USB port initialization sometimes random one of them doesn't work after turning on the computer but starts working after few resets. Please don't do that, manufacturers, I'd rather pay 5$ more for 1$ power brick and 50 cent connector on the device. ;)

[@ElmerFuddGun]

Every connector on it is wrong!!! Not using a BNC for the trigger "multi" out/in is just stupid and it is another special cable you have to have if you use that jack. Using a non standard USB cable also means that you have to carry that special cable with you. External HD manufactures don't do that but Owon thinks they know better. And if you forget it you're going to have a really hard time finding one at a local store near your job site. And the absolute dumbest is using plastic BNC jacks! Seriously? What did that save a whole 4 cents for all of them? Really bad idea. Likely much higher chance to be damaged than a lab scope because it is for field use and constant in and out of a caring case. Not going to talk about the software... lol.

[@tubical71]

+ElmerFuddGun it´s chinese....just fast money....who cares about customer....It's a case of sink or swim. That´s it. They will never do an update, if you want better stuff buy the newer model....

[@dwDragon88]

At 2:22, looks like it might be an MCX connector. Why didn't they just use an SMA connector though?? There's plenty of room... Also, nothing says cheap like plastic BNC connectors.

[@OtakuSanel]

Please, please zoom out. this made me nauseous with the majority of the frame moving and constantly going in/out of frame and focus all over the place.

[@eliotmansfield]

Indeed.

[@Graham_Langley]

+OtakuSanel Seconded.

[@SuperSetright]

+OtakuSanel , and the bloody fingers rubbing on the plastic made me cringe.......lol

[@setitthen]

why don't they just add an LCD display to the thing. Then call it a hand held scope. Also you can use this on a tablet called a windows linx 10 tablet or smaller 8 inch. these run windows 10 in fact you could construct a handheld scope with this and a tablet just place it in a enclosure with a lithium iron battery. and tablet.

[@RobertLukierski]

It really seems decent. It's a pity that it almost as expensive as Rigol DS1054Z. Without the huge shielded case, power supply, display, encoders, buttons and intensity grading (as it has smaller FPGA and no Cypress SRAM for rendering) it should be considerably cheaper. For intensity grading it would have to do the rendering on the FPGA and then transfer the framebuffer over USB, similar to USB cameras. The downside would be fixed resolution display on the PC app and I'm not sure about responsiveness (over USB 2.0). Currently it only sends the waveform data for the current view settings which is much faster.

[@fereydoonshekofte199]

I am going to buy 3104 ! How do you compare a usb based to a standalone one ?

[@adamadamhoney]

I wouldnt mind this, but that GUI! Egh! Why! Chinese electrons still measure the same! WHY!

[@tHaH4x0r]

That 3 way screen thing should be an easy thing to fix if they do it. Still, looks pretty good for a low budget on-the-go solution.

[@komrad36]

"The software is.......... quite a lot better than I expected." Haha XD Love you Mike! Great video as always, thank you and happy holidays!

[@Aletsch]

On micro USB, they are terrible, break all the time on phones, both ports and leads - Best small compromise would be mini USB B as used on tom tom gps units.

[@simontay4851]

Yes, i hate microUSB too. I like that it uses USB type A. I have spare USB type A to A cables. Its much more robust than microUSB.

[@RambozoClown]

I bet a small tablet sleeve case would do the job nicely.

[@JesusvonNazaret]

put some velcro on it and stick it to your laptop

[@artifactingreality]

it sounds so cheap. All that scratchy plastic is making my earholes itch.

[@Zamsky39]

for that price I'd rather get some basic rigol.

[@sdgelectronics]

+ZamaskowanyWolnościowiec I think you're missing the point of this product...

[@Zamsky39]

+SDG Electronics probably yes, I think you are right

[@sdgelectronics]

Mike is suggesting this is more suited to travel rather than a replacement for a benchtop scope.

[@NatureAndTech]

It's idea for building into other equipment, and for automated factory testing.

[@JaredReabow]

arent those usb power bridge cables useless as most adjacent ports are fed power off the same rail anyway.

[@tech4pros1]

+Jared Reabow (Jazza) ports are individually fed in laptops as drawing a few amps at 5v would drain a laptop battery in pretty short order and also would overload the 5v dc-dc converter on some older machines (laptop batteries are 19 volts ish normally). on desktop pc's where power consumption isn't a concern, they are fed from one 5v rail from the psu.

[@JaredReabow]

+insanitybiker not what i meant, if you have ever taken apart a laptop, you would have seen adjacent ports tend to be powered in parralel

[@kuro68000]

+Jared Reabow (Jazza) Better USB controllers have 500mA/port current limiting on an independent basis, so they are needed for many devices.

[@MrOpenGL]

+Jared Reabow (Jazza) Most computers that I've come across except the Raspberry Pi and a 1998 Toshiba Satellite 2180CDT can handle up to 1.5A from a single USB port without getting below 4.50 V. Usually the buck converter and protection circuit is shared between all the ports as you say so if you only use one port you can get up to 0.5A*the number of ports. Desktop PC front panel ports could be a problem because they usually have thin and long wires connecting them to the mainboard. Unpowered hubs are often a problem as well because of the same reasons.Ultimately, if supplied from a suitable 5V power source, the USB connector can give up to 5 A (official rating as per BERG connectors) and I've managed to get it to 8 A but then it gets fairly hot. 10A destroyed the connector :-)

[@MrOpenGL]

+insanitybiker I have never seen such a setup, usually in laptops with 4 USB ports there is one single protection circuit (often integrated in the controller or the root USB hub) rated at about 2A (4*0.5A) feeding from the common 5V rail (the one that also feeds the CPU and the video card). Rarely you see a separate buck converter for the USB either powered from the 12V Vcc rail (for the CPU VRMs) or the battery. Never came across a laptop with single DC/DC converters for each ports. Also never seen any linear regulator in a laptop except perhaps a dedicated one for the sound card.

[@ecar.service.tube38]

Hmmm usb - very slow speed for transfers data, but if use lan for connection to pc?

[@keesnuyt8365]

Not too bad, but the user interface of the (2-channel, 100 MHz, Linux/Android/Windows/OSX) LabNation SmartScope is easier. The Owon settings dialogs would make me crazy.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

+Kees Nuyt It is not 100MHz, it's 100MSPS, so 20-30MHz bandwidth, and not much cheaper than the Owon.

[@pufero1]

+mikeselectricstuff Good review and try clean the screen for the next. :P

[@DrTune]

Wierdly slow data transfer; it's showing between 1MByte/sec and about 4, which is fast enough to be high speed USB (as it damn well should be) but slow enough to be _badly done_ high speed USB (which if done right can easily and consistently push at least 25MBytes/sec over a typical bulk endpoint on any modern PC). That's a bit annoying because it's likely just a software optimization thing and waiting around for your scope to display stuff really isn't my idea of fun. I do wonder if it's just the specific PC/USB setup you had - if you still have it maybe can you compare transfer speeds on a couple of computers? Anyway, thanks, nice review!

[@DJ_Cthulhu]

All well and good. Are you going to use it in 'anger'? :-)

[@SirMo]

Not bad, thanks for the review. Windows only is a deal breaker for me.

[@ligius3]

I use a Windows tablet for my bench. Mine was about 90 euro, Lenovo Miix 3 8". I can connect the scope, multimeter and signal generator at once with a cheap hub and it runs off battery for about 3-6h. Unfortunately it cannot charge while micro usb is in use.

[@kkendall99]

USB scope never replace the real thing? that's what they said about digital cameras. Look at what can be done with USB 3.1 and Intel Skylake. If not that then what about the next gen or 2 tech.

[@BobElHat]

+Ken Kendall It's not just an issue of the PC interconnect, physical UIs (knobs and buttons) are so much nicer to use than a mouse and keyboard and take up less space on the bench. Having a "real" 'scope doesn't preclude connecting it to a PC if you want to so you can have the best of both worlds.

[@kkendall99]

oh I agree

[@simontay4851]

You probably have a bench PC with keyboard, mouse and a display already anyway. I certainly do. My keyboard/mouse is on a pull out tray and my display is a 22inch LG Flatron LCD TV/monitor mounted on the wall I do have a rigol 1054Z on a shelf above the bench but i rarely use it. Its UI is cluttered and i have to stand up and look closely to read the small text on its screen. My eyes are not perfect. VGA or HDMI output would be very useful.

[@andrewbishop7066]

I use one of these for wave forms from engine sensors and ecu on cars cant justify a picoscope like you software has some annoyances but for when i need 4 channels as opposed to 2 i can put up with it cant get it to install on a windows 10 machine though Thanks for the review

[@SLRist]

Another excellent video. FPGAs come up a lot in your videos. They're rather interesting things. It would be interesting to hear your take on them, how to select one, typical applications and how to get started using them.

[@jasoncoyle2953]

I wonder how this compares to the agilent usb laptop scope. Much pricier but dont know if it is any better?

[@mu8502]

hi can this device record all channels or only 1 channel?

[@nikolozkvrivishvili5343]

Exceptional video. But your speech happens very fast and silent way.

[@Tim_Small]

Great video, thanks Mike! Any idea if newer software releases fixed any of the niggles?

[@HenriTroberg]

Why it uses USB A to A cable, seems wrong to me since it's not a host device.

[@kerajit]

In company I work in we bought Picoscope 6404d and its awesome in my opinion. They provide an SDK so you can program in whatever you want. But, it is nearly 5k pounds (on their website, you can buy it cheaper) so it isn't really a competitor.

[@icecinder4097]

Wait a USB oscilloscope is a kind of tektronics scope that hooks up to your laptop and catches square step sign triangle etc. instead of toting around a huge scope? I mean I have a fluke 123 and a tektronics but this is way more portable while in the field. Which is my job so LOL

[@icecinder4097]

Nice looks just as fast as the Dranetz from a few yrs ago so no complaints there, now I want one! Excellent review!

[@DK-uq2yi]

Thanks for sharing your evaluation. It does seem good quality and response is fast. I bought one to try.

[@tubical71]

Why should i buy this? I need a PC/laptop anyway to use this thing... Next, as you mentioned....the menu system is just insane....from your frist explanations of it...i went: No way..! It´s 340 euro, and i still need another thing to make some use of it.... I rather go and buy me a real DSO, which i actually already done. Thanx for your video, as this prooves me right in never ever bought a USB scope, jet, and within the (near) future i won´t buy any as well....

[@KX36]

+TubiCal It's a step in the right direction at least. Scopes with display and controls on the PC but with a proper front end, DAC and some processing in hardware probably have a reasonable future, especially as tablet PCs are now well established. It might take a better interface than USB2 though, but if they don't work on them and people don't buy them, then there won't be progress. I didn't switch from film to digital cameras until they'd been around for 10-15 years because they weren't as good, I didn't switch from analogue to digital bench scopes until the current generation because they weren't as good at the low end of the market. Now not many people would buy a film camera or analogue scope. 5-10 years down the line, maybe USB scopes will be more acceptable. If they put a lot if effort into improving the software or as someone else suggested make the software/interface open source, it could actually be quite a good product. The cheaper options could probably give other cheap USB scopes a run for their money as a sort of entry level scope for school children. The top end one is just too close on price to a Rigol DS1000Z. Lots of things could be improved easily with PC software revisions, far more easily than firmware revisions on the hardware, but I don't think they will bother to improve the software. Once the product's out, they probably more concerned with the next one. At least 1 good thing about it is the size of the display and how it can be resized quite freely. Far better than the cheap, slow LCD on an Owon and bigger than the LCD on a Rigol. They could improve it if FFT and XY modes could be full screen or split screen horizontal, rather than always being 3 windows.

[@ruslankovtun6584]

how to open saved .cap file on computer for analysis?

[@jfcrow1]

Junk

[@opelize]

That little coax connector looks like it might be MCX ?

[@MrMJY]

my VDS3102 FPGA inside is spartan 6.

[@KX36]

3:50 if you had it with a laptop that can't provide enough current through a single port and didn't have 2 convenient ports to use, could you just plug one USB into the laptop and the other into a USB power bank?

[@Wren6991]

Not a great idea to bridge two different power supplies like that. Low output impedance means large currents can flow due to minor disagreements in voltage

[@simontay4851]

You could logically OR the power input with low voltage drop schottkey diodes so one source can't backfeed into the other.

[@MrMJY]

so this vds310x series is fine for students??

[@PetRatty]

glad your back doing videos, keep it up

[@malinsg1]

no games mike?paused a sec on your screen

[@GoldenWestDigital]

I am curious if the line gets unusable thick at high vertical setting as do most of the stand alone digital scopes? Like at 10mv/div some have the line about 1/2" thick.

[@azzym8794]

You talk like a over sped tape, out of speed control. The audio is low and muffled. Sorry but that is the truth.

[@tschuuuls486]

You are using lattice diamond? Their compiler frequently misinterprets my VHDL code (using it during FPGA labs in Uni), oh and it shredded a few files, I crashed the compiler etc. doesn't look like quality software to me :P

[@lkqbgvliqewpgviqe]

Rigol DS1052e or this one?

[@SirMo]

+miguel gutiérrez Barcelo neither. Rigol DS1054Z is what you want

[@lkqbgvliqewpgviqe]

+SirMo But if you have to choose between those two. Which one you would choose?

[@SirMo]

Would still pick the Rigol DS1052e. It's a proven good scope.

[@lkqbgvliqewpgviqe]

SirMo Thank you, friend

[@KX36]

+miguel gutiérrez Barcelo or Owon's low end bench top scope, it's as good as a rigol 1052E, beause the 1052E is essentially obsolete. 1054Z over either.

[@CapitanoDilletanto]

How did you install the oszilloscope software? I get always the NSIS Error "Error launching installer". The USB Driver is installed well. Can you help?

[@emmabruce187]

Enrico Pallazzo I think he said the software provided in the box didn't work so he had to download an older version from their site. Have you tried that?

[@carlosgarcia3799]

por favor pasenlo en español gracias