P0507 Idle Control System (RPM Too High) - vacuum leak - GM

[@jeremyshanks6937]

A simple approach using scanner data as primary source of troubleshooting, using only the tools and parts removal to verify the failed component, great work. This will certainly cut down on the parts replacing mind set!

[@ScannerDanner]

Thanks for the comment! The smoke machine I am using is around $900. And I agree, what a time saver this tool is!

[@UncleBerniesChannel]

Never mind- found it at your website. Best money ever spent. You're an incredible instructor, man!!

[@ScannerDanner]

I have seen freeze frame data on each code with GMs but not with other manufacturers. And I wouldn't argue about the factory scan tool comment. Thanks for your input

[@mikeconnor3602]

I am looking for a scanner that can do bidirectional testing, relearn, program ECM's, without spending snap-on dollars. Does one exist? I really like your videos, very very educational. Gonna download your ebook. I have a P0507 right now on an 09 Liberty after installing plugs and cleaning the TB, gonna check the PCV piping for cracks at the elbows. Mike

[@teamwindle]

Great video ScannerDanner, this just shows how easy the smoke machine makes it. Dont know how they are priced over in the US but here in the UK I paid about £950 (about $1500 I think) for mine but it one of them tool every time I get it out it never fails to make me happy that I brought it. I know people say you can use propane/brake cleaner but this is safer, on another plus my customers seem to really impressed when I can show the hard evidence why I need to spend hours removing an inlet.

[@ScannerDanner]

good question. I have found that using freeze frame data to determine the latest occurring code to be misleading. In fact I don't even bother worrying about it. So I guess my answer to your question is I don't know. Maybe someone can add a comment to this that would help us both. I know some cars will give you more than one freeze frame capture and others will not.

[@kylemcweeny878]

Awesome info cant wait to try these new tactics!!

[@gvvq-pi5ml]

Hi Paul I used to do MOT tests over here, and way to test brake servo, was to pump pedal without it running until pedal goes hard, then rest foot on brake pedal, start car and it should sink down..Fred.

[@lam5102]

Thanks Danny I've been doing this for 12 yrs And have learn a lot from you thanks master Danny you are the best in the business.

[@careylee5951]

Great presentation Dan! Yes not everyone has a smoke machine,so I like that little trick you did with hose. I'll keep an eye out on our scanner for the performance of the IAC motor.

[@ScannerDanner]

yes but this usually happens on a non MAF engine (speed density system) when you say performance issues, if it is under heavy loads and wide throttle openings that you feel these issues it is not from a vacuum leak. a vacuum leak effects idle and low speeds only

[@ScannerDanner]

Excessive EGR flow on a Ford is almost always a DPFE sensor problem, or you switched the hoses on the sensor.

[@ScannerDanner]

We don't measure the duty cycle on stepper type IAC motors. You must have scan data to know position on those.

[@ScannerDanner]

Unfortunately on a stepper design as this one is, you can't. On a solenoid type you can, as you would monitor the IAC duty cycle and determine valve position/command from that.

[@fenixflat1]

WOOOO. incredible tecnique....... a want learn mores.... MR.... i from mexico im automotive tecnic.......is for me a big honor meet you....SR... thanks

[@ScannerDanner]

Haha, yea, a little late in checking the fuses. I truly thought I had a shorted 5v reference circuit caused by that aftermarket "performance chip". Oh well, at least the procedures were important to show. Anyway, as long as it is a hot wire MAF with the resistors that look like the ones I have done, then yes. I would do it as a preventive maintenance. Just be careful. And remember not all MAFs are cleanable!

[@ScannerDanner]

@silkylove1000 i don't know if i would say every car but certainly the map engines react differently to vacuum leaks. the other variable is how big is the vacuum leak

[@dohc22h]

Thank you ScannerDanner.. Your information is GOLD

[@Amopower]

Sorry I meant to use a unit of measure "inches of mercury", not millimeters. It's the chemistry major in me coming out. 650 is actually considered low, for this 4 cylinder at least. 750 is spec from shop manual, with 10deg timing. I also noticed that if I play with the distributor, I can get the idle and vacuum perfect, but the timing is then way off spec. I need to dust off that new Picoscope you caused me to get and put it to good use!

[@ScannerDanner]

We didn't want to do any of those at WOT. Steady throttle in park, idle, 2000 and 3000 rpm. The throttle is hardly open at all during this test.

[@os2386]

This guy is the real deal

[@ScannerDanner]

Using the MAP sensor to ID a vacuum leak would be the same as using a vacuum gauge. It would not be a reliable test, you can still have good manifold vacuum and have a small vacuum leak. Although a large leak would be evident.

[@ScannerDanner]

P1151 is a lean exhaust code. I would look for a vacuum leak on this thing first. Possible dirty MAF. Maybe a fuel pressure problem. Check your LT and ST fuel trim at idle, 2000 and 3000 RPM and let me know what you have.

[@cincomorales]

Great video I have a 2010 Chevy Aveo LT 1.6 with p0507 idle air control system higher p0315 crankshaft position system variation not learned p0171 bank 1 system to lean p0137 o2 sensor circuit low voltage 1 sensor 2 p0131 02 sensor circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 1

[@aviedelson945]

Great! Very clear and methodical. Your approach to controls is above anything else I've seen on the web. Will check out your other lessons. Trying to clear a P0505 and P0125 on my 2K T4R 3.4L to pass emissions and register- Trouble finding out why the fuel control will not go into closed loop. If you have any videos that may touch on the inte-relationship of B1S1 O2 sensor showing constant 0volts and the P0125, please let me know. Had the p125 since harness damage during clutch service. Thanks!

[@carltonjones1205]

your great i cant get a mechanic to figure my 1991 mercury capri poor idle out!... any tips on obd 1 cars how to read check engine codes?

[@ScannerDanner]

im sorry I'm not familiar with that unit of measurement for vacuum. but if you say 18 mm is normal and you're at 12mm then I do not think that it is from too low of an RPM. 650 rpm would be a normal idle speed

[@mutleysnicker]

Hi all just an FYI went thru a high idle issue on my 1999 ford f150---smoked it for vac leaks(yes, i made my own smoker lol) cleaned throttle body and Idle control valve--cleared computer and tried to let it find it's new base idle---no help--grrrr finally i remembered to clean (I mean really clean!!) the pcv valve--Freaking truck calmed down and is purring like a kitty!! PCV valve was sticking!! Hope this helps all!!

[@ScannerDanner]

most likely not unless you have a map sensor too. then things change alittle

[@SuperCarfix]

Another great video from master Danner Thank you

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you! It's called a smartboard. Make by smart technologies

[@S2RDFW]

You my friend are a BAD A*S! High Five.

[@BoltThrower321]

Cool video,,,but do you do, if you have neither a smoke machine nor a rubber hose at the brake booster??? For an example, modern VW cars are equipped with hard plastic lines.

[@jacobnbr11]

I can't speak for the aftermarket scan tools but on the OEM's like the tech2 will show freeze frame data for each and every code. That is an "if" you know where to go and access them. Sorry, I love the OEM scanners and I won't trade them for anything.

[@pabloarevalodelaguila8767]

Wao, estuvo genial. Eres un buen maestro.

[@sonidolacharangachilangaar8037]

Disculpa me podrías traducir básicamente lo que dijo ..? Esque yo tengo ese código hermano

[@movingupautodiagnostics8645]

I'm attacking an 02 Suzuki XL-7 with a horrible high idle, about 3500 rpm. Whenever I plug the Maf sensor the rpm rises. I already checked and the pcm is not sending ground to 2 of its 4 control wires, but dang it it really makes me wonder why such a high idle, like hitting gas and gets worse with MAF plugged in.

[@felmar39]

Good video, thanks for sharing your knowledge ,and your book is the best. Just gave one to a friend of mine as a birthday gift

[@urruart123]

nice presentation on the idle control counts , I know scopes are a great tool but expensive ,and I notice you use snap on for your work ,what model ,without spending the max you think will do a good work , and again thanks for your output on my truck , the most recent calls for scope the injector , but I dong have port ,mine is throtle

[@MassMechanic]

I just finished watching all you videos. I love the one where you cut the purple transmission pcm wire to isolate the circuit; I was wondering when you were going to check the fuses. Question? Would you recommend cleaning a MAF sensor as a preventative maintenance? I was going to clean mine just to make sure that it never caused a problem later on, especially because I live in a dusty area. Thanks in advance.

[@michaelpeterson4348]

Paul...I have a 1994 Dodge van with a 5.2 engine.... this is a restored van .( new engine , new transmission ,rear end , all new sensors on the engine ) van runs great..but the one thing it does not do anymore is that there is no “ cold “ fast idle..and I miss that feature.. I cant figure out why the pinicle on the IAC wont contract enough for a cold fast idle ...any ideas ? Thank you Michael Peterson

[@sivucit]

hi, when you have smoke machine in intake, all cylinders(example all 4 cylinders) will get smoke and at any point of time some of this 4 cyclinder will be in intake or exhaust stroke even though the cyclinder are in TDC, so smoke will come out from throttle body or exhaust system via intake or exhaust valve, is my understanding right.

[@clampingdiode]

Love these videos! U r da man! Could you pleeeeease tell me who makes that monitor?? That thing is soo sick! Years ago I diagnosed a high idle on a gm doing this same technique. Happened to be a contained (enclosed) pcv valve gasket. I forgot the model. Nice job.

[@TheRick2130]

is there any scanner that can read MAP in inches of mercury? if there's one can you use MAP (in of hg) and RPM to detect vacuum leak.

[@ScannerDanner]

Great! Thank you for the referral.

[@Loyalvic89]

Would low IAC counts be an indication of a vacuum leak on a mass air system as well?

[@felplayvina]

Paul if I can't see count but see aic waveform this will be long pulsing on off? what will be the duty cycle?

[@cagonesss]

you got m good doha man is ignorant.i got n old buick 2.8 that idles so high when i start it and many times stalls once i put it in gear.tried 4 idle sensors used but good n still does the same thing.i smoked the top n get smoke coming out of the egr,not the base but egr.also smokes from the 4 line plug on top of throtle body.and throtel body some.my codes r 44 n 45 n iac is it normal for egr to smoke ?whats your take?thanks alot for your videos

[@Amopower]

Hi Paul - is there a minimum idle speed at which you should measure intake vacuum? It seems that my vacuum is pretty low (12mm), but so is my idle (~650, 4cyl)...but when I goose the throttle a bit and hold it, then the vacuum goes up to normal, around 18mm. I'm trying to figure out of my bad idle is due to low vacuum, or if the low vacuum reading is only because of the low idle and that I should be looking elsewhere for the problem.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you very much!

[@UncleBerniesChannel]

Your videos are incredibly informative- the real world case studies and real time analysis showing your thinking during the troubleshooting is superb! So much so that I am convinced to buy your book you mention from time to time- but I cannot seem to find it! Please send link to your e-book!!

[@fivefortyeye540i]

@scannerdanner could plugged egr or passage cause this..

[@fivefortyeye540i]

@scannerdanner I have smoked intake no leaks.. Next move is to clean maf , what ever it is it's effecting both banks.. Man I'm even starting to think this car has a full tank of bad gas.. I'm totally stomped...

[@fivefortyeye540i]

@scannerdanner my smoke test consist of a ciggar and lungs.. Lol really how reliable is that.. Anyways I already have top intake pulled apart.. Found a collapsed rubber elbow from bottom intake to top of engine block between the heads.. Ther is noway I would have seen this whit out pulling this thing apart to conjested.. Maybe that explains the oil leak bottom side this crank case could not vent... I don't know just my theory..

[@Elsanta666]

My car seems to have the same issue. 98 mitsubishi mirage. Raugh idol almost stall on hard acceleration. If this is the case would i notice a difference on my brake pedal?

[@fivefortyeye540i]

After spraying carb cleaner around intake and egr I now have a po402 exaust gas recirculation excessive detected, how is this possible A leak??

[@jasonsparrow4981]

wow this is a very old video but...im working on a map system on a ford ecoboost. this engine has no egr and no idle air control valve. egr is accomplished with the cam phasers and ide air is accomplished with the throttle plate itself, drive by wire system. Im at about 50% total fuel correction. idle speed is right at the desired range. ive smoke tested the intake and sprayed starting fluid all over and found no air leaks. This all leads me to believe that my lean condition MUST be fuel related. However, fuel pressure is right at the desired range on the rail and all 4 injectors were sent in for cleaning and found to be in good condition. I posted in length about on the SD forum. Am i correct that this must be a fueling issue?

[@ScannerDanner]

My forum would be where I'd direct you as well. Thanks!

[@roro560v8]

Another nice video,keep it up

[@fivefortyeye540i]

@scannerdanner. Help!! 03 sable 3.0 24 valve duratec 165k this thing will not go into closed loop ... Only dtc p1151, ford pacific,car starts fine but after a min it starts to chugging almost as if it wants to die. where would u began to trouble shoot this thing?? Fuel pressure? Vac leak.. Ohh there is a oil leak on passenger side, that drips on exhaust pipe, maybe fowled up a o2 , highly unlikely huh?

[@engamen87]

realy i love you paul and i like your work

[@urruart123]

I Dan you are a great person I never expected you getting back to me and doing it so fast it's great , thanks for your input make sure that as soon as I get out of this crisis I'll be taking advantage of your ebook and I will subscribe to your web site , and regarding your reply the misfire is Present with my old and new distributor cap ,have a happy new year , here on Arizona weather is great hope your area is nice

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

Then we need to consider an injector problem. These were also known for issues on this model. The best way to ID the injector not firing is to view the secondary ignition waveform on a scope. Otherwise, you are just guessing as this injector lives under the intake manifold.

[@haykyeghiazaryan6342]

hi Danner thank you for your good elucidate , !

[@Madeviets]

silkylove100,on the l1 ase test and fact sheets. Once new freeze frame comes on the olde freeze frame is erased.

[@Username64870]

How about another video for MAF reaction to VAC leaks!!!!

[@Case_]

I was wondering, is it still possible to have a simple vacuum leak on a MAP-only engine when your low rpm fuel trims are high (say 20+), there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong with MAP, O2 sensor or IAC and the engine's idling right at the desired rpms? You say they " *can* have normal fuel trim numbers" - that kinda sounds like it could go either way. Is there some variable to that? Thanks.

[@Case_]

So, just to follow up on my own question - even though I'm still not sure if you can have high positive fuel trims at idle on a speed density engine due to a vacuum leak (though I suspect it's actually not very likely to happen), I can now tell you from experience that high positive fuel trims at idle can be caused by something entirely different than a vacuum leak - say like a MAP sensor that gives good enough reading at barometric pressure and gets gradually off calibration as the pressure gets lower. Not enough to give you a code for MAP sensor low voltage, but enough to completely throw off your fuel trims at idle, mimicking the classic vacuum leak symptoms. So if you're chasing a lean idle condition on a speed density engine, be sure to verify your MAP readings. You might spend painful hours looking for a vacuum leak that isn't there, like I did :)

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you! Oh and my name is Paul, but thats ok I get Dan a lot because of my last name.

[@ScannerDanner]

Clean the MAF or do a MAF test. It should be over 4 volts at WOT redline. And give me those fuel trim numbers, steady throttle, not WOT

[@ScannerDanner]

I do. Look up O2 Bias voltage testing under my user name.

[@urruart123]

1998 chevy truck throttle injection misfire on #8 new plugs ,dist cap ,wiring ok ,180 psi pressure 10 ,and 15 psi difference between cyl's flashing light ,1 broken exhaust manifold stud 5.7 engine ,can you give some guidance on this .

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

If it is the flat style of distributor cap, these are known for cross-firing problems inside of the cap. My money is on the cap being the issue, even if it is new. I have seen these dist. caps bad right out of the box!. Have you seen me do the RPM drop test with a test light before? This is what you need to do with that cap

[@alekstolstoi]

where can i buy your books?????

[@mrd05d]

If this was an MAF instead of MAP system how would the system react to pinching off the booster? Would it just fix the rough idle and lean condition without stalling then?

[@ScannerDannerPremium]

there are variables to how it would react. depending on fuel trim, IAC position etc.

[@sammysam5048]

+ScannerDanner Premium Is 1400 RPM to high for a 98 suburban 5.7liter ?? If so what can I do to turn it down. I already turned the screw all the way down on my throttle body which brought it down from 1600rpm to 1400rpm.

[@ScannerDanner]

+Sammy Sam you should not have touched that screw kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6rNmX9vn9V5fpo

[@sammysam5048]

+ScannerDanner Premium 1400rpm is as low as I can get it. It honestly doesn't seem like it's idling high as the engine is running, but 1400rpm reading seems like it's a high number. I thought it should be maybe running in the 800-900rpm range. I also thought maybe my timing is maybe a lil high. But anyways, any pointers or opinions you guys can give me I would highly appreciate it. Thx in advance guys! Enjoy your day! 😎

[@ScannerDanner]

+Sammy Sam need scan data idle air control counts to help further.

[@ScannerDanner]

Bill, I just set everything up for you. Check your junk/spam mail folder for the email that contains your license code and web address. Thanks!

[@sabasgarcia8026]

I hope you can help I have 2009 gmc whit high speed 3000 rpm the maf sensor new tlotle body new in still have 3000 rpm

[@ScannerDanner]

Sounds like you're saying it won't rev past 3000 rpm? Check it for a restricted exhaust next. Then get a fuel pressure measurement. Not necessarily in that order.

[@fivefortyeye540i]

Updata: at wot it then go's into close loop.. Stft bank 1 32.8 @ wot bank 2 32.8 @ wot 3000 rpm, as soon as I let off gas it go's back into open loop

[@dominicdaley5702]

great video. subbed

[@ScannerDanner]

Sweet! Thank you

[@ScannerDanner]

stay tuned to my channel i have a video i shot on a Honda with an idle problem from a cold fast idle valve. it will be a few but if you're a subscriber you'll get an email when i upload it. it is basically a vacuum leak too when these don't work right.

[@asamadhassan1419]

What about Dodge Grand Caravan 2011 I got engine idle air control system code p0507

[@ScannerDanner]

Most likely it is a vacuum leak kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnvKo3uhqtaWeZo

[@fivefortyeye540i]

Fuel pressure live data is showing 270kpa and as high as 300 kpa @ wot , this thing dosent have a test port.

[@felplayvina]

Silkylove100 01 Nissan sentra with po302 code po140, freeze frame data after one day got the code again, same codes same STFT and LTFT only. So Nissan update the freeze frame data. I guess same STFT and LTFT because it's misfire..

[@rikta5414]

thanks this video

[@S2RDFW]

Wait we saw you on etcg.

[@zvonimirbobic1093]

what the heck that man just did with that smoke and brake booster???

[@Pyroethics]

I hope you can help me with mine. Got this code p0507 and others relating to throttle body being "High" on every codes. I cleaned the throttle and did not change anything. Replace etb and relearn the idle. After 2 days same code came on so I try to relearn 3 times and my rpm is at 1400. Gas mileage is so poor. Also, after relearning when I turn my ac off the car shuts off while in park or neutral, but when car is driving and shuts ac off rpm drops to 900. I dont have a tool where i can read my idle position and all the stuff

[@ScannerDanner]

Have you considered this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnvKo3uhqtaWeZo

[@Pyroethics]

ScannerDanner yes, I actually watch all your p0507 related codes. Check pcv and that is running fine. I wanted to check for a vacuum leak but im not too confident using propane torch.

[@ScannerDanner]

use my water test. I have videos on this too. Type in "vacuum leak" or "water test" in the search box on my channel page.

[@Pyroethics]

ScannerDanner yea saw that too will try that lol do you have a video explaining how to read short term and long term bank?

[@Pyroethics]

ScannerDanner watched it going to try it. Here are some data I pulled from data stream. At idle stft is at 25%, ltft is at 9.4%. Press revolution at 3000 rpm stft is around 17~19% ltft drop to 0%. My o2s at idle is at 480~570 millivolts at 3000 rpm drop to 325 millivolts. Im assuming I have a leak since im running lean

[@haooto1260]

thank

[@ScannerDanner]

guess I'm not a real trainer then? or a real trainer was never a mechanic first?

[@ScannerDanner]

go to my website listed on my KZbin channel page. (scannerdanner d o t c o m)

[@zvonimirbobicex-4962]

i wonder why this vid didn t qualify to be in ur book?..should be in automotive repair hall of fame!

[@ScannerDanner]

I have too many videos for them all to make it. Maybe on the next update :-)

[@felplayvina]

kk

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you very much. To learn more go to my website (scannerdanner d o t c o m)

[@cadillacescalade1]

why he is shouting? he is a mechanic upgraded to a trainor the real trainor acts in a different way....