Pagami Fire

[@josephschmoe3796]

I found it kind of interesting that in the lessons learned portion of the video, there was nothing mentioned of supervision,management not keeping track of their crews, not maintaining communications with the crews and being vague regarding mission objectives. It appears that those folks were on their own with none of the support that should have been provided them. I'm glad that these folks prevailed, but they deserved better.

[@1234faded]

Totally agree.

[@commiehunter733]

This was a complete sh!tshow. They should've alerted the hotshots and evacuated the park days before.....🤦‍♂️

[@BushyHairedStranger]

Incident within an incident within an incident!

[@SticksAandstonesBozo]

Wait …. You mean supervisors were incompetent? Can’t be 😂

[@Bluelightcheaphotel]

I had heard bits of this story but never realized how crazy this fire was until 5 years later. Composed crew, wow.

[@601salsa]

a water deployment of a fire shelter? holy moly the physicality of fighting water as well as the nightmare of a burnover entrapement, i know i dont think i could have managed.

[@nomadman123]

That was insane! It was about 5 or 6 life threatening events strung together. And no sign of rescue. It’s amazing that everyone was able to keep their heads on straight and that’s what likely saved everyone. Amazing.

[@jimg6261]

Just found this video and the story is riveting! I had camped in this same area (camp#7) the season before and noted that it is now still closed to this day. I'd often wondered what the area was like during the fire to have that site still closed. Now have heard from someone who was there! I've also seen Nancy Moundalexis numerous times on the series of BWCA pre-trip required-viewing videos but had no idea she had this experience in her background. Thank you all so much for sharing and so glad you were blessed with survival and able to tell the story!

[@dawnlee1155]

Super interesting I’ve never even heard about fire shelters like these and I’m sure these guys and girls have never and will never get all the credit they deserve for the jobs they have you are incredibly brave people and I just want to say thank you for the jobs you do!!!!!!!

[@stephanieadams3747]

Girls? I saw women in the video, not girls.

[@commiehunter733]

They're all lucky to be alive. None of them had a clue

[@paulmaxwell8851]

@@stephanieadams3747 My wife and her friends are mostly in their sixties and seventies, and they all refer to themselves as 'the girls'. But then, they're older than today's exquisitely sensitive generation.

[@BushyHairedStranger]

@@stephanieadams3747your generation is almost 40 years old now. Give up.

[@tomevans5458]

What a riveting story./ This should be a movie. Thank goodness fo a positive outcome. Hopefully the Forest Service and corrected the issues that got their personnel into such a life threatening situation.

[@User0000000000000004]

That sounds like a terrible idea. Hollywood would make this short story unbearably stupid. Now a documentary film? I could see that. Documentary is the proper format for factual stories.

[@steneox2392]

There is a movie from 2017: „Only the brave“ about a group of firefiters dying while deployed. Very emotional movie. I recomend.

[@tomevans5458]

@@steneox2392 I've seen that movie. It was well done. Thanks!

[@cannonball9478]

Naomi’s like a cool surfer girl in the wilderness 😂 great story and glad you all made it. Fascinating story

[@kuznetskiibassein3840]

Really great video! These USFS personnel made it through with courage and smarts. They make me proud of all federal employees.

[@2smart2baliberal]

Firefighters are not representative of all federal employees. There are actual consequences to bad decisions in their line of work. I work for USDA (not FS) and it is LOADED with lazy idiots that would be fired within a week in the private sector. THAT is representative of federal workers in general.

[@OmmerSyssel]

J Jones Same here in my surroundings... I feel lucky being educated among crafts men in generally highly effective & trustworthy private sector

[@corettaha7855]

steve Doyle especially the lady who keeps sayin what-not and ridiculous.

[@Mister.Psychology]

I love the map! Keep using this sort of graphics. A fire progress drawing would be nice too.

[@bbbushhh]

Nice job folks.....I am glad things worked out due to your good situational awareness.

[@timgellenbeck4949]

I finally know the name of the rangers who kept me and a buddy from being toasted by this fire. I know you were "just doing your job" Nancy Hernesma, but thank you. I remembered your face like it was yesterday. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWatkqZ8abuDaJI

[@roykale9141]

Thats so cool

[@joshjones3408]

The lady looks like linda Hamilton termanater 2 thats cool.... great video 👍👍👍

[@critterjon4061]

My teacher was a fire line EMT on this fire and actually told these people to bring their fire shelters with them even though they where park workers not wild land firefighters so they were not required to carry fire shelters Most likely saved there lives

[@haloharley15]

Your jaw's just going "aghagha" *hand motions* Fuckin lost it. For real tho these folks are incredibly composed

[@pearlobrien2274]

WOW !! Best story ever. So glad you guys lived too tell. Love from California. 🤗

[@User0000000000000004]

Hypothermia during a forest fire? Wow. This is a hell of a story!

[@corettaha7855]

It’s incredible to me that humans waited around in conditions unsettling to professionals for their sites to be officially closed.

[@dawnc5797]

These are the same people who think "help is on the way" in the form of government.

[@kitwalker3826]

That fire made a 14mile run. Things can change incredibly quickly on a fire line. But i do take your point! Humans are dumb, especially in hindsight!

[@OmmerSyssel]

Impressive story.. Handled very well 👍 Wouldn't mind hiking with these down to earth people 🌞

[@michaelpcooksey5096]

I hope the fire shelters now have versions that keep their structural integrity in water and wave action. I wonder if some sort of chain mail material made of { ?] might keep things together

[@hisimagenme]

It too bad we didn't get to hear how it ended, and I never even heard of this fire. Wonder how many acres it burned total?

[@notthatdonald1385]

I'm only a layman retired volunteer in suburban NYC. So please excuse my naivete but with all our technology can't a better shelter be built with all the composites, and other advances with materials?

[@sirwillsirwill]

There is allot that goes into it, but there is a balance between weight, durability and cost. If you have to deploy ,the Temps that you could be experiencing might be over 2000 f, the granite mountain hotshots for example. The shelters will start to delaminate around 500 to 600 degrees, much lower with direct flame contact. The best safety is to not get into the situation in the first place, even if you carried a fire proof box, over 2000 degrees there is not much you could do to stop the superheated smoke and fire. The shelters are really a last Ditch effort to Stay alive in an adequate deployment site. No different from structural, the steam burns can kill you, the heat can kill you, the fire can kill you, sure you might be able to build a better shelter but then why go out in the first place at that point. you can't change physics.

[@jamesporter6288]

It's crazy to think that you're still not safe even out in the middle of a lake... How far away from the actual flames do you have to be to be safe?

[@willharding4959]

Hello James I know a tad bit late but better than never. Over a wild fire the air gets really really hot like structure fire hot but for a really long time, this creates a condition called super heated air which can be so hot it can fry your lungs. The fire also is going have a lot of embers that can get pretty big. This is why they had to deploy shelters on the water and how fire move so fast some times they can move at thirty mph or faster it totally depends on actual distance, but for this fire there is a lot of fuel, so it is moving fast and the flames will be huge. So again it really depends as you can be on the fire line of it is massive and Im guessing you would be fine at a mile but you cant stay there as that fire would be cruising.

[@sirwillsirwill]

The superheated air itself can make your skin combust. Convective heat can be as bad as direct contact. I have seen the siding on a house spontaneously combust 40 feet away from the safety zone we cut around it. 50 foot flames and 60mph winds and three days of pre heating and a 2000 degree fire will melt steel. One of the cars I saw after was melted.

[@User0000000000000004]

@@sirwillsirwill What you're talking about is heat radiation, not convection. Air is an insulator but the IR generated by those flames can cook anything at a distance. That's why fire shelters have foil on the outside.

[@joshr7781]

How were they flown out?

[@philsturm4685]

They've got floaty bits on flying machines.

[@RealCadde]

@@philsturm4685 And flying bits on floaty machines.

[@sirwillsirwill]

Very big pigeons

[@stephanieadams3747]

Beaver seaplanes. They have floats and can land / take off from the water.

[@matthewmetzer83]

The creek fire.... Almost 400,000 acres... 380,000... Ha 100 acres!

[@dawnc5797]

Did these folks never train for deployment scenarios on a regular basis?! That's unbelievable if true. You train for what can happen not for what you hope won't happen. Consistent training means when SHTF you function on muscle memory so you can make the best decisions.

[@roykale9141]

They are park workers, not wild land firefighters.

[@BushyHairedStranger]

Muscle memory rarely saves Fire fighters in entrapments… Intuition does save Wildland FFT 1 & 2 lives if you are listening and ACTING upon what it tells you.

[@matthewmetzer83]

100 acres? 😅

[@nickm9134]

Why did they have canoes and not something motorized

[@mcspin50]

The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is almost entirely designated for non-motorized use. The areas that allow motors, you are only allowed up to 25HP. Also, on many of the portages between lakes you wouldn't be able to carry a motorized boat. The portages can be rocky, hilly, full of roots and flooded areas. It's a very beautiful, wild and pristine area. Not allowing motors keeps it that way.

[@doncamfrantz]

@@mcspin50 its different when your trying to 'keep it that way' by not letting it burn to the ground though. i would rather let the FS use motorized boats than let the whole place become ash

[@stephanieadams3747]

There are submerged granite boulders everywhere. A motorized boat would have been close to useless, especially with the portages between lakes. There's no way a boat could be portaged to reach campers beyond Lake One. I've portaged between Lakes One, Two, Three and beyond. Even portaging a canoe is challenging. And they likely wouldn't have been able to portage their canoes and fire gear at the same time. Running back and forth across portages even in decent weather isn't fun. Add bad weather... it's a recipe for broken ankles. Canoeing was the only choice, and not just because of regulations.

[@commiehunter733]

Gubment doesn't allow motors 🤦‍♂️

[@roykale9141]

Good luck carrying that through the forest

[@stevebailey8890]

Not sure why they were in this situation without any hand crews or air support. They didn’t have a single chainsaw or Pulaski. What’s the point of them being in this situation?

[@sirwillsirwill]

Honestly I wonder this as well. How they don't take the 10/18 seriously I don't know, smokejumpers at least have support. Rangers are just ambling about a burning forest. I don't know how more don't die

[@stephanieadams3747]

They were sent in to evacuate campers, not fight the fire. The fire blew up, wind changed direction, and the fire started creating it's own weather in a very short time.

[@rocksandoil2241]

Let me get the hair to lay down on my neck again...

[@blackhawks81H]

Probably been fine out on that little island. But who cares. If you've got the shelters, why not use them.

[@paulmaxwell8851]

Didn't you even watch this video? The firebrand blizzard and the thick smoke made conditions unsurvivable. Under a shelter you can find oxygen and a respite from the embers. Go to 29:52 to see what was left of one shelter.

[@commiehunter733]

This couldnt have been handled any worse😂

[@Dovietail]

Um, NO. Just DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR TRUCK if there are ANY communication snafus or inadequacies. Those are what get firefighters killed.

[@diggergeensen860]

Lessons learned. Maybe someone warn the forest service workers in the area on their radios, so they have a fighting chance to get out? Total incompetence by their superiors; lead to a near miss, and a major incident in just 3 days. I literally would have told them to get bent after the first day shitshow took place, and transferred out of there. Instead the end of the video chooses to point out the dangers of deploying on the water, when they had no other option.

[@TimKaseyMythHealer]

A few things that should be given emphasis: 1) Compared to many of these deployment experiences, at least they were in water, and had an island that was over 100 feet from the nearest shore. 2) Hypothermia was definitely the threat in this instance. Not something usually associated with wildfires. 3) Going into the lake will slow your progress down to a walk. You can run at a faster pace, and considering most wildfires spread at a 10mph rate, going in the lake made being surrounded by the fire inevitable. The island option was the only choice once you committed to the water. 4) I will say that I continue to see a pattern with all these lessons learned reviews. Seems like the weather forecast, wind direction and wind speed forecast is never taken seriously enough, and everyone acts like its a complete surprise when the fire spreads faster than expected. It moves at 1/4 the speed of the wind. Knowledge of the fire spread rate relative to wind speed, if understood, should make you take action and be out of that area 1 hour before it nearly burns over your location. No excuse for not understanding this in 2020. 5) If I were working in an environment where the weather, wind speed, and wind direction could determine my fate, I would have a laptop with me at all times. I would have access to all weather information, fire information, and be sure to have a satellite subscription. It is becoming more and more apparent that office support can't be relied upon. Weather information needs to be accessed when fires are nearby. 6) I have yet to hear ANYONE say something like, "I could see the fire, where it started in the 5 acre burn. I then pulled up the weather forecast to learn that a cold front was going to bring in 50 to 60 mile per hour winds." This detail in fire behavior prediction IS easily understood today (by those who care to understand it).

[@stephanieadams3747]

You don't know what you're talking about. The fire started in August and blew out of control in September. Hypothermia was NEVER a danger or threat. The water, even in the big lakes, is pretty warm by then. And they were in smaller lake areas. Your comment seems to indicate you're completely unfamiliar with the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. If nothing else, you're unfamiliar with Lakes One, Two, Three, Four, Lake Insula and beyond.

[@stephanieadams3747]

Having now read your entire post, it's obvious you know nothing about the Boundary Waters and you don't understand what happened with this fire one bit. Your ignorance about the Boundary Waters Wilderness is very revealing. One can't just run from the water to an island a hundred ft away and expect to survive. Your comment about "I'd just use a laptop" blah blah blah us ridiculous. The fire burned for two weeks. The Forest Service was monitoring it multiple times a day. And for your information, there isn't any cell service or "WiFi" connection in the wilderness. It's the wilderness! There are no towers with a signal to connect to. People use emergency weather radios and satellite cell phones in the Boundary Waters. I was camping in the Boundary Waters when this fire blew up. Fortunately, I was ten miles west of it. And what I saw, with a huge mushroom cloud creating it's own weather, was terrifying. The amount of downed trees and wood in the wilderness is enormous from previous blow downs and straight line wind storms, particularly the huge blow down from the Boundary Waters-Canadian Derecho in July 1999. The Pagami Creek Fire, which happened in 2011, not 2020, took a thousand firefighters and hot shots from around the country to put out. And it took well into the winter to extinguish it completely. Before you decide to post something, especially criticism of these good folks, have the decency to get a permit and actually go into the Boundary Waters. Paddle the lakes they paddled. Your ignorance is profound. The only way for you to understand how ignorant you are is by going into the wilderness and learning something.

[@stephanieadams3747]

Did you actually listen to the video? The Pagami Creek Fire created it's own weather. Which means it created the 50-60 and up to 90 mile per hour winds. They explained this in the video. To suggest this was something that would be predicted in a weather report is ...to be polite... ridiculous. Learn something about the conditions they were up against, like the fuel load from the Boundary Waters-Canadian Derecho blow down. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundary_Waters%E2%80%93Canadian_derecho These people are heroes. It's very fortunate no one died in the fire. It came close to burning a town down.

[@TimKaseyMythHealer]

@@stephanieadams3747 I've received over 100 direct messages as a result of my insightful post. You should stop wasting your time with such nonsense. I never read much past your first 12 insults, and pompous bla bla bal, lol. Oh, and I'm sure I've read more than anyone else, lol.

[@stephanieadams3747]

Anyone who thinks your comments are "insightful" has never been to the Boundary Waters. Neither have you. Therefore, nothing in your post is insightful. My recommendation stands. Go to the BWCAW and actually paddle into the areas that burned. Enter at Lake One, the portage and paddle over to Lake Three and beyond. You'll be able to see the remains of the destruction of the fire. I was there in the wilderness in 2011 camping when this fire took off. You didn't even have the correct year of the fire. Trying learning something about the wilderness area and amount of fuel there. There are unique factors in the BWCAW that contributed to this fire. If you weren't so caught up in your own idea you're right and couldn't be wrong, you'd take time to learn something. But... whatever. No matter what you think, you're ignorant about this wilderness area and therefore ignorant in your many assumptions. (Hint: there aren't any cell towers in the million acres of wilderness. Your laptop would have been useless.)

[@markholbrook3949]

They were safe compared to sheltering in a so called safety spot in the middle of big timber and other volatile fuels on land!!! No comparison...

[@deanb4799]

What an absolute shitshow.

[@timgreer1487]

We need to pay more attention on how to prevent people being in harms way in the first place. This fire over performed on the first day. Yet someone still seriously underestimated the fire behavior 2 days following. Science is at a level where these events are quite predictable. Predictable is preventable. They and all members of the public could have been and should have been evacuated day one. A helicopter and a bull horn would do the task in an hour on day one. Those staff should never have been there alone with no comms. or support. Shortsighted, nonexistent leadership. The staff members cool headed thinking allowed to survive. The situation offered many ways to die.

[@stephanieadams3747]

This is an ignorant statement. The fire had been burning and being monitored by the Forest Service for more than two weeks, then blew up in less than 24 hours due to the wind changing. The weather in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness is unpredictable, especially during the summer. And once this thing got going, it's creating its own weather, including wind. And the wind produced by this fire was up to 90 miles an hour, at different times. I was camping ten miles west of this fire when it blew up. It created a column and mushroom cloud that looked like a nuclear bomb went off. It's wilderness, so cell phones don't work. Only satellite cell phones are dependable. They didn't mention what type of communication equipment they were using. From your comment, it's obvious you're unfamiliar with the topography of the Boundary Waters or her many, many lakes. The BWCAW is a million acres of water, land, bogs, etc. Unless you've paddled the Boundary Waters, you've no right to criticize these brave people. In the end, it took 1000 firefighters and hot shots from around the country and working well into the winter to put this fire out. Your comment only reveals your complete lack of understanding about the environment these folks were in and how enormous this fire was. They're heroes and shouldn't be criticized. Period.

[@dawnc5797]

It doesn't (shouldn't) take a genius to understand that a fire in a forest means GTFO of there. These folks shouldn't have had to corral idiot campers who should have left immediately. We all know by now how unpredictable wildland fires are by way of Yarnell hill fire, the Camp fire, etc. If you're dumb enough to stay no one should be required to save your idiocy.

[@watchthe1369]

3 times they come back clueless? Time to start surviving. get in your boat, get in the middle of the lake in an island with the least fuels, deploy and pray.

[@theresalockhart8032]

watchthe1369 pray to who?

[@vickiduron7218]

Theresa Lockhart you've heard the old saying that there are no atheists in a foxhole? You'll be praying!

[@watchthe1369]

What ever floats the boat, the spirit in the sky or the goddess in the folding paged book......something to mellow out while you hope the plan works.

[@corettaha7855]

Theresa Lockhart God. And it’s to whom, if you’re dumb enough to ask.

[@greatestever184]

Its usually always the athiests that say "oh god help us" when put into extreme situations.

[@P4hs]

30:53 - Ironic - "I know I was hyp-O-thermic at that time, I don't know how hyp-ER-thermic."

[@stephanieadams3747]

THAT'S what you chose to focus on? Giant 🙄.

[@tommysimmons3258]

Should of when east across the lake,( wind to your back) then tie the canoes together flipped them over and wait it out...

[@stephanieadams3747]

They became separated and couldn't see each other due to the smoke. They were in Kevlar canoes. The canoes would have melted. This fire was a monster. I'm glad they had their fire shelters, which helped them survive.

[@tommysimmons3258]

@@stephanieadams3747 they would of been ok in the water with the canoes upside down. That one hotshot in another fire had to use a pond to save himself with no protection.

[@andrewhanson8831]

Not to mention when you start heading east on Insula you’re in a narrow channel that opens into a labyrinth of islands and bays before you hit open water… it usually takes me a couple hours if I don’t wind up going the long way around an island or accidentally investigating a bay, which is pretty rare; I can’t imagine navigating with a fire coming down the chute. I’ve had my permits checked more than once by a few of these folks and they are the best… so glad you made it!

[@native82]

This is what happens when you have a bunch of college educated, environmentalist hippies working for the massive bureaucracy that is the shit federal government. All wildland fire fighting should be privatized. Completely managed by private entities. The work would get done for cheaper, safer, and far more efficient.

[@HeraldandGerald]

Pretty shitty take from someone hiding behind a keyboard with a fake name and no profile picture.

[@roykale9141]

They are park workers, not wildland firefighters

[@carlosdanger4648]

I'm ice t I like nice cars and what not

[@conspiraciesarejustgreatst2059]

I think the guy in the red shirt(forgot his name, sorry) might be the worst person to be with in an emergency situation like this.

[@seanconnolly2840]

Seeing as all the other rangers agreed with him on deploying the shelters,you don't sound too smart. What you think is of little value,as in none

[@stephanieadams3747]

Couldn't agree with you more.

[@SticksAandstonesBozo]

He’s what called a terrified dweeb yes. Me and him wouldn’t get along.