Lost On The Toronto Subway

How did Toronto end up with such a horrible wayfinding system?
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References & Sources
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[1] www.thestar.co...
[2] web.archive.or... “University Subway (Union to St George): February 28, 1963”
[3] www.blogto.com...
[4] www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/explore/online/subway/expansion.aspx
[5] www.blogto.com... “The Yonge-University line was extended to York Mills, then Finch”
[6] goo.gl/maps/TN...
[7] www.ttc.ca/tra...
[8] www.gosite.ca/e...

[@egemensentin]

Before Line 3 shut down, we had three “Lawrence” stations - Lawrence West, Lawrence (plain) and Lawrence East. I had the brilliant idea to rename them as Larry, Laurent and Lorenzo respectively, just to help clear up the confusion. Should have been more vocal about it, I guess.

[@Robert-Akkerman]

@@BoBanditsthat’s not true at all only the bus terminal at Lawrence station is closed until next summer at least for the installation of elevators to the station

[@DanTheCaptain]

Best part of this is, there will be three Lawrence’s again once the Line 2 extension opens. I would prefer if they’d name it after Bendale, the neighbourhood that the station will be next to, but now. It’ll be Lawrence East. At the very least we put cardinal directions to kinda differentiate them from one another, unlike fucking Chicago who names 5 stations Western with nothing but navigational coordinates to differentiate them from each other.

[@GayAnnabeth]

I like the naming convention you get for Sheppard-Yonge and Bloor-Yonge - it tells you the fucking major intersection right above that station. So for those three: Allen-Lawrence, Lawrence-Yonge, and... Ok, the Lawrence East one just sits halfway between Kennedy and Midland, so idk maybe Scarborough-Lawrence, which isn't exactly stellar, but is slightly better. The new one on the line 2 extension can be McCown-Lawrence though

[@xouxoful]

« changez ici pour la grille de ventilation paige saunders »

[@shanemoore5009]

I'm a Torontonian, and I approve this message!

[@V1sual3y3z]

There are lots of things I like about the TTC. Having grown up with BC transit in smaller cities and rural service it surpasses what I had to use, but even that experience is a decade old. I really wish the TTC was a) better funded and b) better managed. You are right, there is no leadership.

[@user-iw4jl6bc8h]

TTC is at the image of Ontario ...corrupted , no creativity , no planning with a big EGO and a USA culture .

[@ruta1133]

I remember a non-local asking me how to get to Dundas. And I said "which Dundas? Dundas west station? Dundas station? Dundas at University?" She panicked. My train came and I left her because I hadda go. Welcome to Toronto, sister.

[@juselara02]

3rd day in Toronto, going for the first time to Union station I needed to take line 1. I knew Line 1 has 2 "legs", so I said: "Ok, one is the Finch Leg, and the other is the Vaughan Leg". I arrived at the entrance and I was surprised because I could not find the Words "Finch" or "vaughan" easily. I only read "University" (I said: Ok, so there is an university somewhere up there, but than doesnt help me at all) and "Spadina" (What the hell is an Spadina?, I asked myself) and the other one saying Yonge which is a name that is everywhere. Then I kept walking and saw a really small sign saying "Towards Finch".

[@sblack53]

If looking at TTC signage makes you want to take the car, that is by the intentional choice of the Mike Harris government in the mid 1990s to slash the city and TTC’s funding. Since then any new builds have been funded with a lot more federal money than necessary and with more provincial control than Toronto is comfortable with. Oh and the multiple Tim Hortons at Finch Station were basically the result of the one location having too much demand. Effectively they are part of the same unit, built around the lotto stand and other shops inside the station.

[@LeoMidori]

Damn you Harris!!

[@kjeeb]

You had me rolling at "Vagina South" 😂. Great video! As someone who's been using the TTC for 10+ years and has been to Montreal a handful of times, I immediately felt the difference in navigation and ease of use as someone newly using the STM system. Explaining the "U bend" to newcomers is always the first thing I do cause both going northbound is naturally confusing.

[@ShadowVipers]

I visited Toronto for the first time in early November and while I found figuring out which transit I needed to take was relatively easy thanks to Google Maps. But figuring out where to go to get on the correct direction or figuring out where a transit stop was, was an absolute nightmare. The signage was nearly useless to me and I had to rely on asking other transit riders to figure out that info.

[@mrg0th1er83]

As a graphic designer and a public transport user I have to agree with your conclusion. Toronto is crap for wayfinding.

[@toast12397]

As someone who has lived here for my entire life, I naively believed that the Union renovations would make it easier to navigate, but that entire station is a giant clusterfuck of confusing staircases and signage. Do I have to go upstairs from this side to reach the streetcars? Once I get stuck in the tunnel to the streetcars with hordes of people, which numbered line can I take to get to my destination? Who tf knows. I think one simple thing they could do is to split the YUS Subway (aka Line 1) into two separate lines with two separate numbers and two separate, distinct colours / patterns. Line 1, if you have to keep the name, becomes the Yonge line, and Line X (whatever number we're at... 4? 5?) becomes something else. The loop definition throws a wrench into people's directional sense because arms of the "U" go north-south. Another thing, as he touched on the video, is to give a very obvious direction and visual indication on the signs, on the floors, and everywhere else. It should be super obvious which direction I'm headed everywhere I look.

[@easymarks1637]

This design rebrand is actually pretty recent. Before 2013, there was no unified design language on the TTC, which made riding MUCH more difficult, especially with added LRT/Streetcar/SRT naming debate.

[@GingerKiwiDev]

Kia ora Paige! You're totally brilliant! Just discovered your channel via the KZbin algorithm. Perfect video. I love design and transit, live in Toronto and am a NZ/Canadian dual citizen. Lived in Wellington in primary school. Just subscribed, Try navigating the subway system needing elevators - even when you've lived here for over a decade. I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user without my own wheelchair yet because the process of getting mine is taking bloody forever. I use two canes when I'm on the TTC. While I can do stairs, I don't do stairs or escalators with strangers because I'm always dizzy, and being bumped and/or having someone kick my cane (yes, that happens) means I could fall and hurt myself and others. It's not always evident which way the elevators are, if there are elevators, if they're actually working, or in the case of Dundas station if it's the route that goes through the pee ridden underground parking. The kicker is that the longer I'm standing the more dizzy I get, my blood pressure drops, and medical drama ensues. In February 2022 I got to stop the entire Bloor line and leave Spadina station in an ambulance - partly because the subway service was off and I had to spend way too much time standing. There's a sign by the elevator in the building on Yonge and Queen that says "press intercom for elevator". There's no intercom. The only button is the elevator button - which is what you're supposed to use.

[@LSOP-]

We have a new child and have been having to relearn how to use the system. Why you don't have to use elevators you're like "oh its great they exist" but when you actually have to rely on them you discover the insane navigation and the gaps in the system. "oh, I guess we can't use can't use college station anymore, I suppose we should just get off at one of the Dundas' and walk an extra 15 min"

[@Somewhatbulletproof]

I'll never forget the period of time that line 1's official name was the Yonge-University-Spadina Line adding further confusion by naming a section of the line after a 1960s expressway that was never fully opened and the section that did open was named Allen Road. Somehow this confusing mess is still an improvement on the old system.

[@LSOP-]

In runs under Spadina, a street that exists, which was to be sunken for said expressway.

[@RoboJules]

The Path Network honestly makes things a lot worse. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lost in Union Station or Eaton Center, as the entire downtown subway network connects to a giant underground shopping mall.

[@soviut303]

While I agree things could always be better, the path has decent wayfinding, is handy for getting between major buildings without having to cross streets, is a pretty awesome for getting around downtown (or to transit) when the weather is bad, and is just generally kind of cool. I would definitely like to see even better wayfinding to improve the transit connections in the path though.

[@adamlytle2615]

The only thing pointed out here that I will kind of defend is the station naming for Dundas and Dundas West. It's not the subway's fault that the street meanders through the city. That's the name of the major street the station is at. So they kind of need to name the station after it. It would be 10x more confusing to name it after some other random thing, or a much less well known sidestreet a block over or something.

[@jacobfalardeau676]

The guy who made this video would have his head explode if he ever visited New York City where there are literally dozens of stations with the exact same name and in some cases, multiple stations on the same line with the same name like Seventh Avenue in Brooklyn (Served by the B train) and Seventh Avenue in Manhattan (Also served by the B Train).

[@freonflex]

In Montréal, the green and blue subway lines each have a station by Papineau St., a major city street. On the green line the station is named Papineau. To remove confusion, on the blue line, the station is named Fabre, a street running parallel to Papineau. Problem solved

[@herbtarlic892]

No need to concern yourself about all those Dundas names; the city council, in their wisdom will be erasing Dundas from our shared history to replace it with a word from Zambia which means "city of idiots".

[@freonflex]

@@herbtarlic892 That would be cool, I lived several years in Zambia 🤣 It would be Mzinda wa Zitsiru

[@herbtarlic892]

75 yr old male here, born and raised in T.O. When you started in on pointing out the shitty signage, lousy wayfinding and confusing stations I laughed so hard, my coffee shot out of my nose! It's all true! Every word of it. From my own experience, I've found that if you call to lodge a complaint or email a suggestion, you're really just talking to Al Gorithm, so you're just talking to yourself, They don't ask for your input; they know best. I gave up even looking at any of their posters. Wonderful abstract art but simply hopeless at passing on important info you need NOW. I know the system and the routes and I just head to the correct train or streetcar, no posters needed. I could relate horror stories about people in a panic asking me how you get from here to there,. I could have opened my own info kiosk. But that's a story for another day.

[@cmmartti]

The Toronto-York-Spadina-Subway Extension (TYSSE) was so called because it's an extension of the Spadina subway into York. Yes that's right, Line 1 actually has THREE names, and before the lines were numbered in 2013 the line in its entirety was known as the Yonge-University-Spadina line (YUS). The entire point of the line numbering was to remove the confusion caused by the different names, but apparently the people who made the signs for Union station didn't get the memo. I agree that trains should be named by their terminus stations: it's an extremely well-established standard understood by everyone.

[@my2iu]

I’m not a fan of terminus station naming. First of all, the terminus station keeps changing whenever the line gets extended, requiring all the old travel instructions to be thrown out. Secondly, the terminus stations are annoying because you need to carry around a complete subway map everywhere you go. When I travelled to Montreal, I regularly hopped down into the subway to go a few blocks over. But every single time, I would have to pull out the full subway map on my phone, trace the whole line all the way to the end to get the terminus name just to figure out which way to go. It was very annoying. By contrast, on the TTC, I only need to be aware of my local area. If I’m walking on Yonge and I realize the place I want to go to is too far to walk, I just have to take a subway a couple of stops north or south. There is only a single station where that doesn’t work: Union Station. Why should everyone be forced to remember the names of remote, unimportant, suburban train stations just to ride the subway?

[@cmmartti]

@@my2iu That's a very good point. In NYC, rather than terminus naming they say "Manhattan-bound" or "Brooklyn-bound" (in addition to terminus stations on the train nameplate and on the next train displays), which I always though was quite a concise and unambiguous way to say it. I tried to think of a way to do that in Toronto but there's no obvious way. But since cardinal directions actually work everywhere except at Union, perhaps only Union needs a fix: "Northbound to Finch" and "Northbound to Vaughn", and lose all the Yonge/University nomenclature. Alternatively, and this is a much bigger change, consider the two halves of Line 1 to be two branches named 1A and 1B. Nothing changes operationally, but now you can say to take Line 1A northbound to go to Vaughn. Going southbound it would still be just Line 1 because Union would be considered the "terminus" even though trains still pass through.

[@nottimhortons]

@@cmmartti And not to mention Kipling/Kennedy. Cardinal and terminus it’s the best way around this confusion.

[@sgbuses]

Wouldn't it be easier to just split Line 1 (Yellow) into two, down at Union? Doesn't matter if the trains of the two lines run through services into each other - many cities do this anyway.

[@ghengilhar]

So, I agree that the wayfinding in union is trash. As someone who has lived in the city for nine years, when I first arrived I was lost. Same goes for cross connection up beyond Eglington. Where I object is the issue with the timmies and the streetcars. The three tim hortons actually makes a bit of weird sense. 1: They are franchises. This means there was a demand and owners bought a lease. 2: their locations are for travelers coming from different directions. One is in the station, one is by the Go station and the other is just above the platforms. 3: they are busy and there's demand. For the streetcars, they are very useful and they are the most used streetcars in North America. Your mocking of them sort of seems to be in poor taste. The reason the stops are not there is to make it simple. The stops (and the extensive bus network) are on the main map you can see in stations. Overall, yeah we need to improve our wayfinding. As for duplicate station names, the plan moving forward is to use more unique names. They will rename Eglinton East to Cedarvalle (that's the huge park you didn't know the name of). As a former resident of Glasgow, Toronto is streets ahead.

[@soviut303]

I think the mockery for the street cars was strictly about the wayfinding. Their routes are poorly displayed on the map with no stops listed, just a red line with a number on it so you don't even know where to get on or be let off.

[@user-xb5ri2rc7f]

I was recently in Toronto with my father just a couple weeks ago and had to fight with him at the fare gates to Line 1 and the streetcars at Union Station to convince him that there was infact a secret underground tunnel to a streetcar loop hidden below the train station that the 510 left from, and that there were no STREETcars on Front street. Not to even mention the atrocity that is wayfinding once you're actually on the streetcar system.. Great video

[@Evoke]

As a former TTC employee, I'm so sorry for your pain😢

[@nottimhortons]

I will make an objection to not keeping North/Southbound. As a guy that both loves cardinal directions and having the terminus name in the wayfinding system, I could compromise and say make the terminus name the Biggest in the wayfinding, while at the same time, keeping the cardinal direction in small letters. The latter rule can be foregone in the twisty future Ontario Line. EDIT: The TTC is in the middle of changing the signage standards for their subway system so that it’ll read only the termini. To my deepest chagrin. I’m any case, you’re getting your wish, Paige.

[@my2iu]

I agree. Terminus stations are so unnatural. Toronto is a grid, and the subway runs on it, so for local travel, it’s just so much more natural to navigate by compass direction. If I need to get to downtown, I just grab the subway headed south into downtown. Why should I have to remember the name of some silly suburban station like Vaughan Metropolitan Centre just to ride the subway when I’ll likely never travel to Vaughan in my lifetime?

[@winningless]

How would you feel about a number letter system instead system. With Union being U0 to mark it as a sort of terminus. Then King is F1 for terminus Finch, Queen F2 and so on. This way, if I was at St. Clair F9 and wanted to go to F13 it's very clear that I want to head north without having to even check a map to see if York Mills F13 is located above or below St. Clair F9. The V1 would be St. Andrew and apply the same naming conventions to the Bloor-Danforth line too with K1 heading west and and S1 heading east. This almost removes the confusion of naming overlaps like Dundas/Dundas West since the letters and numbers give a clear indicator that they are nowhere near one another

[@my2iu]

@@winningless I think naming overlaps is a good thing. If Metrolinx and other transit agencies had naming overlaps like the TTC, Saunders would have realized that Langstaff GO station is actually at Yonge-Hwy 7, just like the Richmond Hill Centre Terminal, and he could have just ridden a GO bus or GO train directly there. The use of abstract names with no relation to geography probably caused him to take the less efficient subway-bus combo.

[@hysterics8011]

You can't even find some stations because the on street directional signage is so poor. Ottawa has a nice donut logo

[@emalieth8220]

Yes! The southbound and northbound thing! My first time in Toronto, I couldn't even figure out which platform I needed to take to go to York U. The answer from the ticket booth employee had been: "Duh! Of course it's southbound!" It's the fifth "northest" station on the map!!!! How was I supposed to feel confident about this XD

[@nottimhortons]

It could be both honestly. The direction and Terminus. Just to know for sure.

[@trainglen22]

Toronto really has done a bad job on the interchange stations. And Tim Hortons are everywhere!

[@mariocelej3613]

TTC = Take The Car So, your end point is already in the Torontonian dictionary :D

[@Quince828]

Or you could come to Ottawa where there’s no words at all. Red numbers on a white background, white, or maybe black, on a red background, or you might like grey! Let’s add in a numbering system that has something to do with where the bus is going and whether or not it’s even running. I shouldn’t have to do a web search to find out when I should go stand in the cold waiting for a bus that may not have been cancelled. I guess I’ll just stay home,

[@redonyx5428]

im from toronto and i've helped so many people with navigating the ttc. even accompanying a few for a bit if i have the time because i don't want anyone to get lost. it's better than it used to be but there's always room for improvement. also, each station now has wifi and if you're on freedom, you always had cell access in the subway from what i remember. it's just with rogers getting the screws applied to them (finally) that access has been expanded. EDIT: If the station with the three timmies in it is Eglington, there used to be different dining/cafe options. I haven't been in there for years as I take a different route now but there used to be a second cup, a indie pizza place, a freshly squeezed, a cinnabon and nother place that did small baked goods and patties. then outside on the bus platform there's another food place. three tim's that are most likely ran by the same person is too much.

[@kevinr3394]

Walk into Dupont station, you see stairs to subway on the left and stairs on the right, neither with any signage at all! TTC thinks you should just guess which is one northbound and southbound ffs

[@InADarkTavern]

I think you’re being too harsh.

[@amorphousblob]

I went to Toronto last year for the Porcupine Tree concert, and I ended up lost in those tunnels for an hour. I couldn't find an elevator, so I had to haul my suitcase up a huge flight of stairs, then a few steps later, I had to go back down another set of stairs, to get to the same level I had just arrived from. Then I ended up going to the wrong train platform. Nobody I asked could actually help me because they were lost too.

[@amorphousblob]

Footnote: I think this was at Union Station, but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if I ended up somewhere else during all the wandering, too.

[@Islington_Express_Bus]

If you were at the Union Rail station, (not the subway station) then that's not the TTC's fault. Union (Mainline Rail) Station is owned by the city and its signage is famously TERRIBLE. Also that Porcupine Tree concert was great!

[@LeoMidori]

I've only been to Union once, and I was just trying to find the subway heading North-West, but it feels very large, intimidating and desolate of clarity.

[@bruhmomentcertifier]

no one knows how union station works, not even the toronto natives

[@thierrynihill2120]

I was going to ‘tsk tsk’ you for being a panicky tourist in my beloved, adopted hometown. To me, the transit system here in Toronto is simple and easy to understand! The only transit systems I think are better are in Montreal and Washington, DC. But then I remembered: I’ve been in Toronto for 24 years now. It took me 15 of those years to get used to the transit system here. Once you use something all the time, it becomes simple. Muscle memory. But I totally empathize with your frustration - the TTC can be terribly intimidating to visitors and new residents. But once you get used to it … it’s great. Just too bad learning to be a concert-level pianist didn’t take me as long to master as the TTC admittedly did.

[@nottimhortons]

Funny, it only took me 15 minutes in this benighted city and I already had the handle of the subway system. Not bragging though, there are understanding differences for many people.

[@adanactnomew7085]

Now that Vancouver is getting new Skytrain extensions, there are situations where a station is going on a street that already has a station named after it. For example, there is a Granville station on the Expo Line, and a new station on Granville further south on the Millennium line, which they are calling 'South Granville', which to be fair is the name of that neighbourhood too.

[@soviut303]

The issue with a flawed system like this is that none of the day-to-day users complain enough about it because they're all used to it. So the issue is artificially hidden by the fact that most people have memorized the parts of the system they use. The TTC needs to anticipate this run regular tests exactly like you did; have people unfamiliar with the system be given a starting point and a destination and observe when they get lost. Even locals could be tested for routes and stops they don't normally take. Always be testing.

[@faithfuljohn]

I'm confused on how you got lost on a city with 2.5 lines. One just runs east/west... the other north south. Literally the only thing you need to know to figure out where to go is 1) which subway lines you are one 2) the station you are in. Need to go East? Get on the east/west lines... and head east. That's literally it. The signage isn't good partly because it's so easy to navigate. Cause does it matter if the north/south lines is called 3 different things? There's literally NO other north/south line. NONE. I've been in NYC and Boston, THOSE were nightmares. Having said all that... most of the issues you point out is one of money pure and simple. The TTC is the least publically funded out of the major transit agencies definitely in Canada maybe north america. What this means is that the province of Quebec actually helps Montreal pay for their system. whereas for the TTC 75-80% of the money comes from fares. What this means is that the TTC will avoid spending money it doesn't have to. Metrolinx came out with new signage (without consulting with TTC)... then wants them to replace all their signs (costing millions) with any funding? Yeah, that's a hard no. They already struggle to pay their bills. They're not going to spend a ton of money on signs when they have infrastructure to replace. That's a non-choice if ever there was one. So you're right there is a lack of leadership. But that comes in the form of lack of funding and cost cutting.

[@TobanAllison]

I feel compelled to correct the record here. We consulted extensively with all municipal operators--TTC was the operator we engaged with more than any other, including 40+ meetings since the project started. I believe the TTC feels a level of comfort with their existing system which is fair enough, however, when considering how to design a system for the region, as Paige points out, we needed to make adjustments to account for new transit customers, but also customers who might be taking another operator's service for the first time. All of the design choices we made were with the express purpose of making the wayfinding system work as well as it could for the first time user. The position we took when it comes to infrastructure beyond our own was that absent dedicated funding, we would encourage operators to adopt our Standard but we were in no position to demand it. It was therefore incumbent upon us to demonstrate the value in adopting the regional approach. With that in mind, I want to emphasize that we have not pushed (nor have we even really asked) TTC to adopt the standard on its own infrastructure, although we were upfront that that was the desired outcome in order to maximize the benefit for customers. Much of TTC's concern has in fact arisen regarding Metrolinx-owned infrastructure that they will operate, and we have nearly resolved all outstanding issues for those projects. In emphasizing functionality, we didn't want to get into a subjevtive discussion about aesthetics, but rather, made sure that not only did the standard offer maximum ease of use for customers, but we could prove it. Every design element is either consistent with the existing approach (we didn't start calling the subway the Metro, for instance), based in industry best practice, or we tested it with customers against the status quo and adjusted as needed. All with the intent that if an operator was considering adopting they would have assurances that it would work. We are looking to publish the results of our research and consultation in the new year so those that are interested can gain some insight into our decision making. This will also be used to support future funding requests that we hope will enable a wider, and faster, rollout beyond our own infrastructure.

[@trainrover]

Ton o' rot 💡 💡 💡

[@HipsterShiningArmor]

The reason why a lot of these duplicate names exist i because Toronto is extremely griddy so it very often is the same streets connected to multiple different transit lines. as for what could be done, I think most people, myself included, are generally proponents of keeping the standard street name on the Finch side of the line while renaming the stations on the Vaughan side. Some of them have pretty obvious renames (St Clair West could absolutely be Casa Loma Station, Dundas West could be renamed Roncesvalles), some of them are trickier; Sheppard West in particular will be difficult to rename becasue the obvious alternate, Downsview, is already being used. Maybe it could be called Wilson Heights? idk its an idea. And yes, Lawrence West absolutely should be Jungle Station. it will never happen but it should

[@barfnelson5967]

really enjoying the grumpy old man you're becoming Paige. Just stay funny while doing it, otherwise it will get annoying. (Vagina south comment almost made me fall out of my chair).

[@TagusMan]

It's pretty hard to get lost on Toronto's easy peasy subway, but the signage or lack thereof is pretty dumb. Union Station has undergone major renovations over the past few years and the signage still sucks. A couple of years ago, the TTC decided to change all the maps above the doors , showing you the whole subway network to maps with only the line you're traveling on. Why? Why spend money changing signage that gives less information than before? Why? And you're right, the Yonge University Spadina line is the dumbest name for a subway line of all time.

[@gdkid]

Meanwhile NYC with like 6 stations all named "23 St"

[@J0E1L3]

I admit i was surprised when you praised the signage in Montreal initially because as someone who takes the REM from gare central nearly daily the signage quality has been terrible as you mentioned later in the video, but perhaps it is testament to the rest of the system since it was never an issue before that i noticed.

[@PaigeMTL]

That's the underground city, which is obviously terrible, but it's not the property of either the REM or the STM.

[@jayron9]

Yeah, that's the property managements' (Place Bonaventure et al.) and ARTM's problem.

[@andrewweitzman4006]

@@PaigeMTL The RESO signs are known to suck. It's especially bad in the twisty passage from Bonaventure to the REM entrances to the Gare Centrale. What is really annoying is that there is essentially a straight-line shot right from Bonaventure through a passage to Place Bonaventure to the south end of the platform for the REM Gare Centrale. The downstairs is set up as a complete access point with fare gates. But it is exit only, with the doors being blank unsigned ones akin to fire doors in an area akin to the Back Rooms.

[@darkwingscooter9637]

Ontario has shit signage in general. Who thinks it's a good idea to put a wall of text of complex instructions printed at font size 9 on a road traffic signs? And don't get me started on highway signs.

[@Motwera]

This video, it's like my own venting in a coherent manner to everyone else. You don't understand how relieved I felt watching someone understand the problems that embody this whole country/continent when it comes to "first impressions", leadership, vision, will to do things better, attention to detail/passion, and not being complacent... Go travel literally anywhere outside North America and you'll understand these things.

[@erickpalacios8904]

Well Montréal does it properly. Even Vancouver, while small, does it much better than Toronto.

[@c.a.mcmullen7674]

No, no, NO! OK, yes: Montreal's maps and way-finding are excellent, but the city is hardly a model for great transit planning. Just staying within the STM you have ONE excellent transfer station out of four. Lionel Groulx could be a global model. Snowdon started down this route then STM cancelled the the western leg forever, so you almost always have to arrive then go downstairs to change lines. At Berri you walk forever, and don't get me started on Jean Talon... Then you get to interagency and the merde really hits the fan (or rider) The STM built the SRB (semi-rapid bus) down Pie IX and crossing beneath an EXO/AMT/WTF commuter station. Did they put the new bus station there. NO! it's half a block away in the middle of the street. God forbid they put it under the EXO station and put in elevators for the mobility impaired. The REM is building a new line all the way to the airport but didn't consider going Nother kilometer to the Dorval station, a bus hub that also serves VIA and EXO and would be a massive boost to ridership and connectivity. Of course, they're the same agency who forced south shore busses from crossing Pont Champlain into Montreal once they began, only to have the line go down on the first weekday of service. No matter if your bus wasn't going to Gare Central, it's their bridge now!! And I get to stand on Henri-Bourassa in -30 watching STL busses sail by while my STMs are delayed because of construction, but the STLs can't stop cuz its MONTREAL even though ALL the busses are going to the same metro station. And the ever-disappearing EXO service speaks for itself. Still, a good video you have. (Hey, did I rant? Sorry bro,...) For great wayfinding, see Washington DC. Boston was good until recently as well.

[@PaigeMTL]

… Well, sure glad I said Montreal had nice wayfinding and didn’t say anything about transit planning.

[@acchaladka]

Wow, i just commented on your CBC video, asking you to do a video about how Montréal wayfinding became so shit, and here you are hours later doling it out. I've been here 20 years, my wife is born and raised, and still we get lost trying to walk basically anywhere from Bonaventure metro to anywhere else. We miss exits when driving though we have have clean records and about 10 years of university between us. Etc. Thanks Paige!

[@PaigeMTL]

The underground city is just unusable, unless you have nothing to do downtown one day and memorize the maze for a future trip.

[@biglasagnaparty]

@@PaigeMTL I've literally spent multiple days (when I knew I had time) to "practice" the journey from the green line to the orange line using the underground for when it's horrible weather. The first few times I got so completely lost but now I can do it reasonably enough if I need to 😂

[@jeralm]

I am elated at the poetry. Artful rant.

[@carlogz]

Honestly though, as long as you figure out that Yonge Street is the official line of East-West Division of Toronto. Reading the Subway is easy and actually make sense. University line is clearly west. If you are going East, then stay on the Yonge line. I find everything so much easier in Toronto vs New York, London, and Korea

[@Hilde_von_Derp]

Yeah but figuring it out wouldn't make for 15 minutes of clickbait.

[@TalwinderDhillonTravels]

kind of a transit nerd here😬 And i got lost trying to get to Union station bus terminal from Union train station. So yep, it is pretty bad.

[@tristanridley1601]

They've moved it! Again!

[@lealextn]

Toronto-bashing like a true Montréaler! 🥰 Loved every minute of it! 😆

[@meltingtomato]

Paige, I respect you, and appreciate the work that you do. While the TTC's wayfinding is bad (and yes, in many parts reflects signage from the subway's opening), Montreal isn't free of issues either, just further along. My real pain point is talk about the lack of visibility of connecting transit on Toronto's maps (in the case of transferring to the YRT), but as I recall, you don't see any information about the RTL and STL on the Montreal Metro maps either, except for the route numbers on the next station screen in the Metro cars.

[@PaigeMTL]

Luckily I don’t say or think Montreal has perfect wayfinding, it’s just… pretty good vs Toronto. Never had to pull out google maps to find a bus transfer in the same station or been uncertain which direction the metro was going.

[@meltingtomato]

@@PaigeMTL 100%. It's further along and unified with its regional counterpart, as you mentioned in your video. It does sometimes take a quick peak at the map to know where Peel is relative to St-Laurent, but it is dead clear you need an Angrignon-bound train, and where to catch said train. And really, while the TTC has several fires to put out at once, the communications with riders (both in the form of signage, as well as detour notices) has been pretty pathetic.

[@BoBandits]

I wrote a letter to GO this summer, complaining abput the wayfinding at Danforth GO. After the ticket agent laughed about the poor signage and said "what do you expect?" Not impressed.

[@arepayyz]

The entire city is like that, a wayfinding nightmare. and if you drive, parking a car is also a challenge trying to figure out the signage system, which usually result in getting a ticket. The sad part is that all these urban issues are a testament of its aloof population

[@Imman1s]

That's until you hop in your can and end stuck in a TTC tunnel meant for trams and you realize that bad signage is everywhere. But that's besides the point, since you will be regretting driving in the downtown core in five mins, tops.

[@CaptainCanuck100]

My gosh this is great. First, even as not a design person, this is accurate: I got on at Bay recently and it took me a good 49 seconds to figure out which way was west. Second, I’ve never seen this guys videos before, but I like the humour!

[@nottimhortons]

He’s advocating for a nixing of Cardinal directions, not termini. Kipling and Kennedy both start with a K, right? So it was extra confusing which one’s east or west. Something cardinal directions effectively negate. I still propose cardinal and termini directions to be used.

[@infyume]

Btw, your videos are amazing (both style and substance!) Definitely deserves way more subs

[@wtfareperfectplaces]

This travel direction nightmare reminds me of trying to navigate the Seoul subway system. I've ridden over a dozen and it was a total nightmare. Unless I was missing something, they literally don't say which direction the train is going. You literally just have to see what the next station is and figure out if your station is after it. Mind-numbingly stupid compared to normal places like Tokyo (who absolutely excel at this)

[@winningless]

The number and line colour system in Tokyo is amazing. Tourists don't have to memorize station names just the line colour and station number they want to get off at. There's lots of signs both above and painted on the ground that help guide you to transfer to other lines with distances in meters so you have an idea that you are progressing in the right direction. There are even charts that tell you what specific area of the subway platform you should stand at depending on the station you want to disembark at so that you are as close possible to the exit and/or ticket gate to quickly transfer to the next line. It's one of the best systems in the world but for some reason they keep trying to imitate systems in European cities that aren't nearly as effective

[@aksb2482]

Idk when you went but I was in Seoul last summer and above the platform screen doors they have signs with arrows pointing the next station

[@erickpalacios8904]

​@@aksb2482same. I found Seoul to be very easy to navigate. Multiple languages and clear signage. It's just a vast labrynth 😂

[@mr51406]

I’m a signage geek and your critique is spot on. ⭐️ It’s been like that in Toronto forever. It’s like they can’t decide if they’re New York or London so they take the worst ideas from both and, especially, ignore Montreal. Standardization can’t just be in theory. Old signs have to be removed because as you showed the different generations of signage clash and make it worse. You could do a critique of Montreal too. 1) the STM bus map is an unreadable mess (basically a computer generated data dump); 2) the bus stop signs have the charm and legibility of a government form; 2) the REM absolutely had to make their signage different just to show their proprietary independence. Bottom line: let professionals (designers AND cartographers) at a regional authority do the signage.

[@coachshawnkent397]

The Toronto Subway is one of the easiest to use . It's north and south . East and West . Only has four lines . I do agree with changing some of the names . I do agree with changing some of the Subway platform names .

[@HyuugaYouka]

lmfao as soon as he said 3 timmies i knew EXACTLY which station

[@CasualCommuter_]

One of the main pains of having a design background is being aware to terrible design when it's in front of you 😅, but also great to appreciate the efforts made to provide good design. I just love when the branding of the line goes beyond slapping a decal on a signpost - and honestly it's not just a nice-to-have, but a requirement if you want to take your transit system seriously.

[@CasualCommuter_]

One detail I would love for us to take is Tokyo's (may also be in other cities) exit numbering system - all exits are consistently numbered in public subway or private rail stations, and are consistently use the same yellow signage. When you walk off the platform, you'll see a yellow map with all the exits, and then follow the same yellow signs in the station to your exit. It still takes me a while to figure our which exit to get out at Montreal's Gare Centrale or Toronto's Union Station.

[@Haxerous]

In all honesty I feel like half the confusion comes from Line 1. It should be renamed/renumbered as 2 different lines. Also drop the damn useless nouns. Most cities around the world are just fine with numbers and/or colours. The stations are better off being named after the neighbourhood/community they serve and not the intersection/street corner lol.

[@nottimhortons]

We kept the names because history. They are formal names now, but EVERYBODY knows it as line 1. Also, the street names as subway names are fine, it actually makes heading from a station to another by bus easier.

[@trilliumtransit89]

This is a lot more simple than you are making it seem. If you mix up Dundas and Dundas West, that is a communication issue between you and your friend, not a way-finding issue. If you were actually looking at the map, there are several things that would point out which is Yonge and which is university. First, the street map to the side clearly shows both Yonge and University avenues, which should be a hint. Also, on the actual subway map, there are 2 stations which also help you, Bloor-Yonge and Sheppard-Yonge which should be an implication that Yonge is at that station, not University. The streetcar terminuses are called loops because they are loops, literally. Also, the only reason GO and YRT buses don't connect in the same terminal with TTC buses at finch is very simple. The finch TTC Bus terminal is too small to fit everything else, and no space to make it bigger, and YRT and GO terminals came after, so they got pushed out across the street. Other systems connect with TTC very well at places like Don Mills Station, Scarborough Town Centre, U of T Scarborough, York University Keele, Pearson Airport, and more. I just want to point out, don't have high standards with metrolinx, EVER, they are a terrible company, who can't get anything done and have been delaying the opening of a new LRT line for 4 years because for the first 8, they sat around and did nothing. And the system isn't Bullshit, its an amazing system, you can't argue that, the way-finding could use a little work, but if you really want to go somewhere, you will find it easily.

[@its-eric]

Did you watch the whole video? As is said at the end, regular travellers won’t care quite as much because they can work around the inconsistencies, but for tourists and occasional travellers having a streamlined experience is literally the difference between getting where they want to and not taking public transport.

[@jacobfalardeau676]

This guy's head would explode if he ever took the New York Subway where a simple instruction like "Take the B Train and get off at Seventh Avenue Station" could mean you get off at a station in Manhattan or a station in Brooklyn. Not only do so many of the stations have completely identical names, they even have stations on the same line that have the same name as another station on that same line.

[@trilliumtransit89]

@@its-eric My point stands. He is bullshitting the TTC because or problems that can easily be solved with some common sense. For example: As I said, Dundas and Dundas West are very easy to differentiate if you actually try, and calling TTC bullshit is just straight lies

[@its-eric]

@@trilliumtransit89 lmao the TTC isn't gonna give you any free rides no matter how much you try and stand up for their failures you know

[@trilliumtransit89]

@@its-eric I don't remember saying anything about wanting free rides? I think that paying is a good thing as a large part of TTC's revenue comes from fare. TTC has many failures, yes, but many of the things that are blamed on them are not always their fault you know.

[@keithmcmanus2406]

Boston's Orange Line runs from Oak Grove to Forest Hills. Both names are minor neighborhoods that no first-time visitor would know of and are the near exclusive terms the line uses to indicate direction on that route. Not Malden/Jamaica Plain. And certainly not anything intuitive like north, south, in, or outbound. The Red Line's western terminus is named after a fish. People only know where it is because they probably parked there at some point.

[@TheRandCrews]

I always thought University Line is the line that both serves York University and University of Toronto, while Yonge Line ofc is along Yonge Street

[@aaronginsberg4993]

If you remember that up until extremely recently all subway and streetcar lines were primarily referred to by the street they ran under or along, it makes more sense. And honestly, the most challenging station names aren't the ones named for the street. If Reece had asked you to go to University and Dundas, best of luck figuring out why you needed to get off at St. Patrick Station. It made sense to Torontonians when they built it and St. Patrick's Ward was a place people knew about but now? Even born and raised Torontonians will mix it up with St. Andrew.

[@cat-.-]

There are 4 modes on a 1/Yellow/Yonge/University Line: 1. You are on the left half of the U heading up. This is called "Line 1 towards Vaughan" (Northbound) 2. You are on the left half of the U heading down. This is called "Line 1 towards Finch via Union" (Southbound) 3. You are on the right half heading up. This is called "Line 1 towards Finch" (Northbound) 4. You are on the right half heading down. This is called "Line 1 towards Vaughan via Union". (Southbound) Thing is, if you are in situation 2, and you stay there past union station, you find yourself in situation 3. Similarly, if you are in situation 4, and you stay on the train for long enough, you transition into situation 1. You become northbound after being southbound for long enough because of the U bend. There are 2 northbounds and 2 southbounds, and the 2 northbounds are going in opposite directions, and the 2 southbounds are going in opposite directions. IMO "Northbound", "Southbound" should not be used at all. There should only be 2 situations: 1. Vaughan to Union to Finch. 2. Finch to Union to Vaughan.

[@cat-.-]

And if "Vaughan Metropolitan Center" could just be called "Vaughan Center" then all would be happy

[@osterguy86]

"How many cousins do you have to fuck to make this map?" Thanks for solid belly laugh Paige

[@eve-marie6751]

Hey, it's not all hopeless!:- in winter they extend the Jane 935 (The Jamaica Express!) at its south end all the way to Jamaica:- you just crawl into the backseat, tap your ruby red heels, take a puff of mary-jane, and drift off into "Cloud-Cuckoo Land" and then you wake up in Jamaica, yah man!

[@tagpro93]

Was not expecting the Christchurch,, New Zealand B-roll!

[@stoikiometry]

Had to rewatch this today after my toronto visit yesterday. I don't live in toronto so I'm no pro but I visit friends frequently. I was at union waiting for the yonge subway and decided to look around for that streetcar platform. The platforms for yonge or university directions are separated now, and it feels narrower. I found it easy enough because I knew vaguely where it was but fuck if I didn't wonder "why don't they just put the streetcar symbol on the floor and draw a line leading you to the platform?" Also there was some closure of a small section on the yonge side being announced, which I knew about ahead of time because I checked the website for service advisories. I stood there thinking "why isn't there a LCD map screen synchronized to the announcement SHOWING you where the closure is? fuck" Even on the website the advisory is just text; where the fuck are these stations? fuck I'll have to check the system map to find out. Don't know why they just can't depict the closure VISUALLY. Another thing about transit: why is there not an app that can show me where the fucking vehicles are on their route so I can see how long I have to wait (or if it's canceled and I'm not wasting my time)? We've got GPS and everyone has a smartphone. It's the 21st century and no up to the minute location of where my bus/train/tram is? Even a screen in the shelter should be minimum. FUCK these people designing transit never actually had to use it 3:05 And about the yonge vs unversity problem: my solution is just divide Line 1 in half. Finch-Union is Line 1 / yonge. Union-Vaughan is Line 2 / university. Yes bloor would be renumbered to line 3, it's better than say "yonge-university is through running lines 1 and 7". The numbering should reflect order of construction and it's nicer. Yes it's work to change signage but we need LCD signage for a lot of things, no more LED bulbs on the subway, that's so 20th century.

[@Evoke]

Nice video. I agree with most of your points. I used to work adjacent to the wayfinding dept at TTC for many years. It was pretty rag-tag back then, and I doubt much has changed. A lot of the problem is in the legacy stuff not translating well into newer modernization efforts. I remember there was some resistance to numbering the lines - some said it was too much like NYC. I saw some good changes made while I was there, but the people running the ship were way too egotistical and pushed out some great employees in-favour of hiring in-experienced kids that did their bidding. You're totally right about the ego vs public good argument. That was a big problem when I worked there. Overall nice vid and I wish some folks at the old TTC would take a look. Not sure how they measure the success of wayfinding systems, but I know for sure there's a lot of self-congratulating that happens within TTC and north American transit (as you also hinted at in your vid). Messed up that I find it easier to get around Tokyo than my hometown, sometimes.

[@ikesau]

Man, I would find that so frustrating 😂 If you're evaluating whether or not your city should construct a Statue of Liberty, "it's too much like NYC" would be a pretty good counter-argument. But it's _terrible_ reasoning when it comes to wayfinding. We _want_ every city in the world to converge on transit best practices!

[@gialennon171]

Ttc map should have been better designed, as a local, its easy for me to navigate but i can imagine as a visitor to the city switching from different agencies of bus could be so confusing and if you have to use go transit or up express too, they wont be obvious on the ttc map or even a line on there, i think if all the agencies could merge and working together they could make it better tbh. Like for someone wanna use all the different agencies to get around the gta for the first time, having ttc, go transit and up express lines on the same map would help sm. I found this reddit user, dont think i can link it here but you can search it up, they merge all the lines from agencies together making it way more understandable and easy to navigate

[@to_milon]

Can't agree more. Living here for 8 months, and had to get a car. The daily commute from East York to Etobicoke takes 1h30m via TTC, while the car takes 40-45 minutes even in rush hour. Was living in Berlin for 5 years, and never thought of getting a car, so didn't even get a driver's license there. I never appreciated Berlin's public transport before coming here.

[@jefftee7354]

How does this video not have at LEAST 10X the views it currently has? This is top tier content.

[@LeoMidori]

While I'm not crazy about some of the station names and agree they could be tweaked, does anyone else think the streetcars need distinct names? Why are they *all* 500's?

[@liamtahaney713]

I love way finding!!! Yay!!! I really think secondary directions are really helpful. For example in brussels the circle metro there are always signes showing which way around the city. A small thing I appreciate.

[@Token_Nerd]

Great video but I have a few criticisms here. 1. Montreal metro way finding is good, I will give you that, but REM, outer agency bus, and EXO wayfinding is absolute shit. The same levels of bureaucratic nonsense that led to the GO-TTC or YRT-TTC disconnect still exist on outer stations like Montmorency or regional connection centers like Central station in Montreal. 2. The loops are fine. They are effectively bus/transit terminals in their own respect, and largely differentiate themselves from station termini and non-station termini. Additionally, a lot had or used to have fare paid zones within their service areas (exhibition, Dufferin Gate, Long Branch, and Humber off the top of my head). If anything, these connection locations should be better showcased on the full system map, so that terminal service connections can be better showcased. 3. Finch is an egregiously bad example of way finding on the TTC with regards to different agencies, but it's not an example of what can't be done. Kipling, Pioneer Village, HWY 407, VMC, Sheppard West (in the past), and Don Mills all do a good job of showcasing and directing people to outer-agency bus services. The fare paid zones are good...we should keep them, they make TTC bus service much more viable as a service (boarding takes like 1/5th the time because people don't have to pay or show a transfer to board a bus and can use all doors, without the cost of enforcement for POP systems, which may be useful on a few routes, but would be cost prohibitive on the vast majority of the system). 4. The way finding standard wasn't adopted by the TTC because Metrolinx chose to differentiate their standard from the TTC standard with regards to fonts, colors, and other subtle changes, leading to a massive cost for wayfinding changes system wide (likely in the hundreds of millions, even though pretty much the exact same information is conveyed)...of course the TTC is not going to adopt it if the province isn't going to pony up some cash to force the agency to adopt it. Additionally, the station marker is the most uninspired thing I've ever seen in my life. They could've gone with a token for a station identifier, the old subway icon...anything creative really. A Black T is going to confuse people and doesn't really differentiate modes of transit from one another. 5. The larger issue of the location split between separate agencies, I would argue, isn't an issue of way finding, but an issue of fare integration. In this respect, I would argue Vancouver has actually done a better job than Toronto and Montreal 6. One route not having ideal ridership on the streetcar network, I would argue, shouldn't justify the removal of the streetcars from the rail map. After all, it's a map of rail services. 7. The lines were renamed...the criticism regarding the Yonge-University-Spadina, Bloor-Danforth, Sheppard lines is a little redundant given that the actual names of the lines are Line 1, Line 2, and Line 4 now. 8. Dundas West vs Dundas (or any other west/east station names) are, while not perfect, I would argue, are far better than the repeated station names of most major systems (cough cough* NYC), and this is an issue that is being rectified.

[@jkfuykable]

Just about your point number 4., the point of the T is specifically to not differentiate modes of transportation from each other. It is intended to be a mode-agnostic way of indicating transit. There is a separate mode logo intended to appear on other signage to indicate the mode of transit (for tram, railway, subway, bus). This is almost the same system used in the greater Vancouver area by Translink to great effect.

[@planningpersonlaidbackdeep1273]

Yes! Thea urban caffiene is awesome.

[@andrewcagney]

Looking forward to the next video where you explain why no one should drive in Canada because the freeways and their signs are equally bad (but more dangerous because at 100km/h there are only seconds to make a decision).

[@GayAnnabeth]

wait until you see that the carlton streetcar spends more time on gerrard and college than carlton

[@dcreelman]

Paige, I challenge you to take the subway to Union Station and catch a Union Station GO Bus (Megabus for extra points)

[@alankingchiu]

We may never see Paige again.

[@UrbanCaffeine]

Glad you finally published this! Such a well done video. 👏👏👏

[@PaigeMTL]

Yeah, sorry, took me so long that the seasons cycled back to winter.

[@KN100]

As someone who moved from London to Toronto about a year ago, holy crap did I vibe with this video. TTC signage is comically bad! My favourite thing is that Eglinton lost its screen indicating when trains arrive back in december of last year. It took them about 6 months to install new screens. They're STILL not on. It's hilariously awful.

[@pauldevey8628]

TTC used to intentionally route subways and stations to not intersect with GO transit lines.

[@leftbeef229]

I don't even bother looking for signage anymore, I just ask people who look like they know where they are going.

[@mashdash]

Great video, I hope that in Montréal, places like the RÉSO get a standard signage created once again like there was meant to be back in 2004. Also I’ll try not to put my own signs this time!

[@williamgates-crease3885]

Great video. The downright blood feud between the TTC and Metrolinx is embarrassing to be honest - it's gotten in the way of so many design and construction choices seemingly for the sole purpose of making it "our design". The TTC will ask Metrolinx to rip up and re-build curbs it just built only to get their city contractors to re-do it with essentially no change, for a small piece of control. Not that Metrolinx is particularly coordinated anyways. The wayfinding challenges in Toronto are just a sample of this issue, but probably the most visible. I can name multiple friends of mine who've tried to make it to my place through the "new" Union Station, with its wayfinding improvements, only to still be confused and distracted in the labyrinth. Torontonians drunk on the kool-aid will say "I figured it out, so it can't be that hard. Must be stupid people getting lost" and the cycle repeats. Stubborn leadership, stubborn citizens, stubborn agencies. It's in the tap water I guess. Same reason it takes five pilot programs and council comittees to figure out if people can drink beer in parks.

[@tristanridley1601]

The curbs in question weren't built right though...

[@erickpalacios8904]

I was in Toronto a year ago (from Vancouver) and got lost more than once. Union Station was especially difficult to navigate. Been to both Tokyo and Seoul on public transit and I only got lost once _combined_ and that was basically just because I missed my station due to being distracted.

[@tristanridley1601]

Having a lot of experience with Metrolinx and TTC, any time anyone brings up Metrolinx imposing anything onto the TTC I get my back up like an angry cat. Metrolinx has been behind so many wastes, so many idiot ideas. TTC meanwhile somehow makes it work despite near zero funding for ages. Signage may be the exception, but I bet the Toronto voter would support a design standard from Metrolinx only if it was originally based on the TTC's best elements, approximating what you say happened in Montreal.

[@12meeth34]

What is that stunning station at 0:46?

[@philpaine3068]

I've always been annoyed by a very simple thing about the TTC. There's always a map of the system in the upper section of the system, but while there's a ton of ads and other stuff on the platforms, there's never a map of the system there.... where it would be the most useful. The inbred names in Toronto have long been a subject of humour. Endless recombinations of Don/York/Mills.

[@ghengilhar]

Well, line 5 will remedy some of that. Hopefully Doug Ford doesn't insist in calling all the stations on the Ontario Line FOLKS FOLKS FOLKS

[@trainrover]

decades ago it'd been written that Man & His World was the only time and (semmertime only) place this country has ever experienced actually proper signage

[@infyume]

Where's the subway/metro shown at 00:48? It looks so gorgeous.

[@nottimhortons]

That’s the Montreal Metro.

[@Unterwelten]

That's Verdun metro station.

[@katarzynatom784]

I think every life is important 🌎🇺🇸

[@moho472]

Another great video! Funny enough, if you thought the wayfinding was bad in downtown, holy hell you should see Etobicoke. It was so bad, I actually written about the issues for my final project in my accessibility lecture. Islington is by far, one of the worst subway station design in both wayfinding, and accessibility. The wayfinding signs haven't changed since 1980! We all know that the 1980s was a time of inclusivity & accessibility.... You shared how I felt about the TTC's directions perfectly, it's too compass-centric. You shouldn't have to study the street map just to use the subway. The Metrolinx Standard has been in place since 2015, and while they don't name their stations after streets as much now, there's a lot more that needs to be done. Thanks again for the video!

[@trainrover]

the ttc is plain crappy .. remember their fishbowls that bore no customary strip fenestration above those forward-slanting windows of theirs, they often made standing fuckingly bothersome? .. or their SCREECHY subway wheels rounding mild bends? 🌬brrrRrr🌬

[@TMBpk]

I've been saying since forever that that the Yonge Line and University Line should be separated into two lines on the map with different colours. I don't even bother reading the signs because it confuses me and I've been using it forever...I just know where to go. TTC is just bent on making sure residents do not use any other mode outside the TTC....they literally ignored GO for decades until just recently. I didn't even know Kennedy had a GO station until 2015 and I've been using the TTC since 2001.

[@SamueldLarson]

Thats even more confusing. Imagine the people trying to transfer lines at union station.

[@DrkNite101]

Another video of a Montrealer bashing Toronto! Really Paige! Montrealers spend too much time thinking about reasons to hate Toronto, while we strive to change and compare ourselves to world class cities. I’m an ex-Montrealer (born & raised) and so I know how bad it is in Montreal. The only reason signage is better is because Quebec spend so much time and money on ensuring all signs are in French. The truth is the service/frequency in Montreal is poor. It used to take 1.5hrs to get home from LaRonde to East end off-peak. 1.5hrs from Concordia to East end off-peak. Recently they discussed closing the metro at 11pm. 11pm! Are you kidding me! I could go on but I’ll move on!

[@PaigeMTL]

masto.canadiancivil.com/@paige/111506559965639881

[@SamueldLarson]

It's true that, against all odds, the TTC is somehow better than the STM. When it comes to wayfinding however Toronto is the bottom of the barrel. Monreal Metro is also generally cleaner and more beautiful, but thats undone to a degree by very disappointing headways.

[@tcbillyleung]

Omg I totally agree as a Toronto resident. I'm sad you didn't call during your visit tho. I'm passing thru Finch all the time.

[@stevensimpson6872]

What an indictment of the TTC.

[@MartyGlenn72]

I don't see the confusion in regards to the (not really) duplicate station names. There's Dundas and Dundas WEST and there's Eglinton and Eglinton WEST. The word WEST was put there to AVOID confusion! Try riding the subway in New York City where they have tons of REAL duplicate station names! With no "east" or "west" designations to ease the confusion! And believe it or not, in recent years they added MORE duplicate station names to a couple of existing stations that originally had DIFFERENT names! Believe me, Toronto is a walk in the park compared to large subway systems like NYC!