PAINT TALK: Top 5 Problems with Taking Painting COMMISSIONS and How to SOLVE Them

[@Monsterflosse]

The sound when 'dealing with the clients' came up, I can't 😂😂😂 Thanks for your advice btw, your videos are really helpful to me 😊

[@paulaelliott47]

Chris this was very informative and very thorough. I did commissions for many years. I always said the most important thing I needed to do was figure out the painting the customer has in their head and paint that painting. Whatever it takes to figure that out, the better you do that, the happier your customer will be. And for the customer is is so important they allow the artist the freedom to paint once the painting starts. I had one customer that kept worrying and changing her desires and I was already into the painting! With that customer I did give her the two full size prep charcoals of her children, returned her deposit and walked away. I would have been a wreck trying to make her happy and my painting would have looked like a 5 yr old did it. I had a very detailed form to fill out with the customer, right down to what color are the eyes? When the painting was to be complete? Could I talk to anyone who answered phone or is this a surprise gift? The colors I saw and the color the customer saw could be different I discovered the hard way.

[@paintcoach]

My best advice for anyone commissioning a painting is to find an artist you really like and then give them as much freedom as possible. The best commission I ever got was a friend who asked for a night time cityscape of NY. That's all he said and allowed me to do whatever I wanted within that. It was great because I got really into the painting and the more the painter can get excited about the painting the better it is going to be.

[@Lacroix999]

You should rename this to “Things They Don’t Teach You in Art School About Taking Commissions” Honestly this was super helpful! And I love that you mentioned to paint where you can be seen, like outdoors because this is how I got my first commission! I was painting some very large panels for a float that was of The Tomb of The Unknown Soldier for the Memorial Day parade and I had to paint them outside because they were so large. One of my neighbors from down the street drove by and stopped to ask me if I painted other things. I told him I did, but never sold one before. He asked me to paint him a picture of an old general store that he loved to visit. He said he’s go home to go get a phot of it but I honestly didn’t think he’d return, but he came back not even 15 mins later. I was surprised, but told him I had no idea at all what to charge him. He told me that we’d work it out in the meantime and I went to work painting it. It took me about two weeks to do so off and on. When I was finished, he came by to pick it up and paid me well for it. He left and ended up coming back not even a half and hour later and told me that he went to show off his new painting to another local business he went to frequently and was friends with that business owner. The guy he showed it to was so impressed that he said he wanted one as well if the same store. He told him that if I was willingly to do it that he would tell him that I would charge me double of what he paid for his painting! The guy immediately agreed on the spot and came by to ask me if I was willing to do so. I quickly agreed and sold my second painting just like that!! And this was all because I was out in the open painting where I could be seen! Basically free advertising!! I did learn a few things from this. Even though I was paid very well for my work and made double that for a second painting, it does help to have a mainframe of what you do plan to charge for your work so you’re not guessing what you should/could charge for your time for those who are interested. It makes you look more professional and have people take you seriously. I could have lost that sale, but I got lucky that day. I could also tell the guy admired my work and appreciated my time and did paid me well and now my artwork sits in a business where it can also be seen by others! It also does help to have a portfolio of your work on hand to show others what you are capable of doing when showing others your work.

[@claires9100]

Cool story. I am happy for you. Congrats.

[@jadar6141]

Always amused by your own amusement at your 'sales pitches'...and i love your KZbins...because (as a professional myself)they always, indeed, GET ME PAINTING❣️

[@BarBaraWhorleyCrawfordESS]

Excellent. I’ve done several commissions of pets. I find it fascinating that some people want quality but find it hard to justify the price. I run when someone’s says oh that’s a lot. There is always someone out there that loves the painting and price is no problem. I’ve given a lot of free and discounted to get to where I found a circle who doesn’t mind paying well whew! Now that I’m learning oils I’ve found a new learning curve. I was painting watercolor pet portraits. Maybe someday in oils too. Thank you for great content and I love your style of teaching. ❤️🖌🖼

[@neu-ter]

Seriously. Thank you!

[@marcyperrier7030]

Thank you for this through, thoughtful, advice on commissions. Don't know of any one with your talent for giving these lessons for everything connected with oil painting.

[@DCweldingAndArt]

Check out Stefan Baumann, and Andrew Tischler's channels/podcasts. (Creative endeavor podcast)

[@paintcoach]

Thanks! I'm glad you are enjoying the content!

[@CreatedbySusanMontgomery]

Your work is amazing! I painted in oils in college but just work in acrylics now. This was so helpful and I'm glad that I've already learned some of these. I like how much you talked about honesty with the client. And so true about some photos not being great for paintings, I have received some that I just couldn't do much with and had to ask for other photos of better quality.

[@anyaconda3155]

I'm literally just dealing with a difficult client 😅 they get one more alteration before I give them their money back and keep the painting or they take it and pay me the rest. Wish me luck 🤞🏼

[@paintcoach]

I've been there! hahah good luck!

[@Lacroix999]

For future reference, I wouldn’t allow a refund for a deposit because you’ve already put your time and effort into what you have done so far. That being said, I would try to do this as nicely as possible because you don’t want bad reviews from a disgruntled client.

[@anyaconda3155]

Update: It went better than expected and I only have to do very minor alterations :) That was a good learning experience haha

[@mailie6403]

Thank you. Great advice.

[@chriscallen6897]

Great video Chris. I’m looking forward to more videos concerning the business side of art.

[@paintcoach]

I have more coming!

[@christinegalysh7433]

Thank you Have a great day

[@patrickflynn1602]

Great, now all I want to paint is someone with a sword on a unicorn flying over a volcano, fighting a dragon for a twinkie! Seriously though, great video, so much sense, thank you !

[@paintcoach]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@VeeWolfArt]

Thank you! Such an important video 👏 I was just thinking about this, you read my mind!

[@paintcoach]

Glad it was helpful!

[@LavenderLau]

Thanks Chris! When you said you had a 'sample' to show the client of the house you painted, what was the sample? A photo? Xx

[@EskayStudios]

Haha Twinkie in your hand…great video! Thank you!

[@leslieburke3717]

Hi could you do a segment on painting water?

[@sandycaracciolo8015]

Another fantastic video! Do you varnish your commissions? If so, maybe you can explain that process on a future video?

[@yogieswar]

Yes

[@figurativeartistbenjaminel8395]

I set my price by size. A very simple structure my clients can quickly understand. If the client wants a complex, difficult piece, I’ll insist on a larger size or just refuse the commission.

[@paintcoach]

But what about hands and backgrounds and stuff? If someone wants two people on a 18x24 that’s one price but if they want two people with two sets of hands the price will pretty much double for me.

[@figurativeartistbenjaminel8395]

@@paintcoach I get that. But I love the ease of giving out a set price list to weed out price conscious clients. That way the “that’s too expensive” moment happens early rather than after an evaluation.

[@paintcoach]

​@@figurativeartistbenjaminel8395 Very good point

[@sme6kaa]

Great paint talk, I gotta say I love it when you put those little comedy bits in there. It really cracks me up. Very relatable.

[@purelovepaintings5075]

awesome video as usual....so much great information.

[@paintcoach]

Thanks again!

[@aprilkurtz1589]

"And you get exposure!" I didn't know that artists got paid with exposure bucks, too. I'm a musician and waster of perfectly good paint, and those exposure bucks are just what we need. Haven't figured out how to turn exposure bucks into real ones, though.

[@lauraorem1276]

The polo player is a knockout!

[@paintcoach]

Thanks!

[@rachelscottart6908]

Another great video - thank you! Does the length of time it can take for oils to dry affect your commission process?

[@dvango2023]

Good information. Thank you. Do you frame commissions ? And if so do you include it in the price? Do your clients specify whether they want the painting on stretched canvas or canvas board? Thanks again. Your videos help me to “Get Painting “.

[@ArshdeepSingh-me2qm]

7:42 that client had more than some imagination.🤣

[@altealavella7553]

So helpfull thank you so much! 🙏🏼🎨

[@shahzadqurashi7728]

Very helpful , thanks!

[@brooklynbabydoll718]

You make it sound so simple, or maybe I'm making it difficult but nonetheless great tips thank u

[@paintcoach]

hahah nothing about oil painting is simple so don't worry

[@dalya35]

Thank u ❤️

[@myrnarichards5834]

Thank yoooou!!! So helpful!

[@DCweldingAndArt]

That's funny...I just did a portrait of someone on a unicorn 🦄 jumping over a volcano, holding twinkie in their hand. Lol great vid bud!

[@paintcoach]

LOL thanks!

[@jeviersenior427]

Thanks i needed this

[@paintcoach]

Glad to help!

[@abhinavkaushal2120]

It is so helpfull to me thakyou

[@kermit3194]

Great!

[@NicoletteJun]

9:04 I would LOVE to see a tutorial on how to paint dogs ❤️ This is such amazing work!

[@FIZZGIG-RARF]

So, I've got several pet portrait commissions and I'm doing them in oils. I'm not sure how i am going to approach varnishing them. As you know, the soonest you can varnish an oil painting is 6 months, but i don't see clients being okay with waiting that long. I thought about using a temporary varnish, so i could give it to them sooner, and have them return it for the final/permanent varnish whenever it's time. How do you approach varnish with oil commissions?

[@coreymaddox3962]

When is the Cage going to be finished??

[@vertexsnapper]

I know right?? I can't wait till that's finished and he offers prints

[@lauren_grimes7655]

I wanted to ask if I wanted to paint a picture but on a bigger canvas, like 16 by 20, how do I do that while having the correct proportions but still painting loose?

[@lol-lq7zd]

thank you for this thorough and helpful video! after 2 years of doing commissions i still have trouble pricing them and sticking to it, honestly. i had stuck this year to pricing them at minimum wage (my country-wise) but i soon learnt it wasn't helping much, and i was not earning enough to even cover all my expensive materials, which are all only available abroad. all of my clients have been from abroad anyway, where salaries are better, and minimum wage is much higher than it is here. do you think it's reasonable to adjust my prices to fit that, instead of sticking to my country's standards? i haven't had much chance to ask artists what they think about this. hope you're having a good day! your videos are always helpful and educational, thank you

[@paintcoach]

Yes, I would raise your prices if you are not covering the cost of materials.

[@payntpot7623]

Universities charge overseas students more than national ones. I wonder if you could consider the same.....what would be the sales ethics behind such an idea?

[@blackandwhite1756]

Ha! jokes on you, I already LIKED, SUBSCRIBED and RE-WATCHED

[@tattooedwriter]

Chris, I'd like to ask a question for a future Paint Talk, if I may. I want to try plein air painting and I think it would help me advance. But the idea of painting in public is intimidating. Any tips for working up the courage to go out and paint? Thanks.

[@paintcoach]

That's a good idea! I will work on that one. For now just know that anyone who comes by is going to be impressed just for the fact you are painting outside. I always have people walk by when I am 5 min into a painting and it looks like nothing and they say "Wow looks beautiful" ahaha

[@payntpot7623]

How do you price research for commissions? Perhaps this comes into what you will and will not accept? I recently had an old b&w photo which was damaged to work from, and the client requested it in colour. There was lots of searching for the "right" colours from the client's memory for the clothes and pony. I had to make a generic background and put some specific details. In the end, I think the client was pleased. The time spent researching and repainting was extensive and I was given the old family album to make up the child's face as best I could. Your video on children's portraits came out the day the client collected the work! Anyway, I chalked it up to experience and thanked her for the opportunity to paint her idea. Speaking of ideas......I have read the client owns the copyright on a commission, since the image was their idea. Do you ask permission to use photos of commissions on social media due to this?

[@paintcoach]

As time goes on you will be better able to predict how much time it is going to take you to research what you need to do the painting and you can work that into your price. When I know I am going to have to pull from a lot of photos and do work in photoshop I always increase the price a lot. I have never had a problem with showing a commission on social media. I am not sure about the legal stuff with who owns the rights but once I do a commission it's not like I am making any more money off the image

[@gloriapinskerportraits4801]

The artist always retains the copyright unless they give it in writing to the client (probably not a good idea) In my contract it states that I am allowed to use the image for promotional purposes on my website, social media, etc.

[@payntpot7623]

@@gloriapinskerportraits4801 Interesting, where I live it seems to differ. Here, as I understand it, the idea behind the actual commissioned image belongs to the client. Even if the work is never actually executed, the idea remains with the person who initiated it, ie. the client. Since the artist is working on behalf of the client and would not have painted that actual picture without the client initiating it. As I understand, in such a case, even a contract stating the artist retains the copyright is vetoed by the court in favour of the client of the commission. Perhaps permission for advertising purposes is OK, without actually selling copies of the image? A minefield. I think you are correct as far as an artist initiated work is concerned. The idea behind the work is then solely the artist's and someone just liked it and bought it. They then have no claim over the work and cannot prevent the artist selling copies of the work as prints etc.... I am not even sure if an actual contract is required for that? I wonder if any legal minds are reading this, and could help clear things up?

[@payntpot7623]

@@paintcoach Thanks for that, I hope time moves quickly to save me from going bald!

[@gloriapinskerportraits4801]

@@payntpot7623 it probably does differ from country to country. Here in the U.S. it is generally the artist to retains the copyright.

[@payntpot7623]

Have noticed that many people try to look at a painting from 6 inches away, then comment on individual brushstrokes, rather than standing back to get an idea of the overall effect. I have taken to explaining that most art teachers will say to stand 6 feet away to view a painting. Is this the right thing to say? I ended up showing one person, close ups of Sargent's work online to show how, up close, the lips sometimes make no sense, but from a distance, they convey an image that most of us could never dream of achieving. Do you differentiate in price between canvas, linen, board or paper? I have just done 3 giveaways and 2 commissions....the maths is not adding up in this household! Thanks again

[@paintcoach]

I understand what you are saying with the brushwork. This is why I always show examples of my paintings so they know the style I work in. Also a lot of times clients don't know how to articulate what they are seeing that they don't like and they will chalk it up to being able to see brushwork. I always calculate in the cost of the materials I am using into the price. Most clients don't know the difference in materials so I use what I like to use and that sets my price.

[@payntpot7623]

@@paintcoach Thank you. One particular client I was thinking of had seen my work in my home and asked if I could paint an old photo of her, so she had an idea of my work in advance. I almost feel the paintings I do for others are much tighter by necessity as that seems to be what they want. Works I do for myself are looser, and have more of a life to them, yet because the brushstrokes are visible, people do not seem to prefer them so much. I suppose it is the old adage of an artist being true to themselves, but only if they can afford to?!

[@deeburks4238]

Commissions are 90% communication....

[@mikei6605]

I'm here because a person suddenly wanted a commission after seeing my art and I was not prepared at all...

[@thesandman6855]

Problem with art is artist are too nice. Even Walmart has a return limit, especially for Laptops no more than 15 days, so art should be the same way. Etsy, Saatchi, artfinder, etc... make it too easy to sell art, sell junk, and sell it cheap. If it takes you 2 days to paint something and you sell it for $100, then you don't have a business atmosphere. Learn how to own a business first and then go paint, then you will have a better perspective of what to charge for your artwork.

[@angelarosales260]

what’s your instagram i wanna see your artworks

[@paintcoach]

Forza43

[@payntpot7623]

Am I right in thinking the polo painting was done later than the barrel racing one? If not, you have not improved! The nostrils and one ear of the barrel racer are quite deformed from a horse person's perspective! Nevertheless, Great video, thank you.

[@herrweiss2580]

You were very kind to only mention these two "faults". hehehe Unlike some of us, who draw/paint horses on a daily basis, I believe he did a fantastic job. Much respect!

[@payntpot7623]

@@herrweiss2580 Yes, he did well enough for someone who shows no intimate knowledge of the subject. It just beggars my understanding that people so often attempt to paint animals they have no knowledge of, just because they have a photograph in front of them? Photographs lie all the time and show false shadows and mess up perspective and angles. Muscle, tendon, ligament and bone shapes are lost to the lighting of photographs; then people think they can just paint a faithful reproduction of the photo and it just looks wrong and weird! Lots of mutant horses, cattle, sheep, tigers, etc...in modern paintings. I liken painting to the old writing adage and substitute the word Paint for the word Write. "....what you know about and are familiar with". At least the old artists could see and touch a horse daily, although a great many of them still got it wrong! Yes, this channel is fantastic and very informative, as well as inspiring. It has helped me get back to art after a very long break.

[@herrweiss2580]

The values in the painting do not match those in the photo; thus creating disjointed areas. Easy fix.

[@herrweiss2580]

He had confidence in his abilities and got paid handsomely. Where there's a will, there's a way. Kudos to him.

[@herrweiss2580]

Have you seen Balthus' The Barracks? The white horse's perspective seems to be a bit off and the horse is mostly two-dimensional, but when you see the elongated soldier leaning by the tree, all is forgiven. Beautiful composition with a few shadow discrepancies; one of my favs. Take care!

[@marriedaprince1]

Very helpful thank you!