Palestine's Great Flood with Max Ajl

In this episode we welcome Max Ajl back to the podcast to discuss some of his recent work around the centrality of the "Palestinian Question" in the world system. Max will address the nature of the US-Israel special relationship. We will also talk about the proliferation of student encampments on universities particularly in the US, but spreading around the world as well. And the fascistic responses to those student protests. The current state of the resistance from Palestinian resistance factions as well as other regional forces from the Axis of Resistance.
Max Ajl is a researcher at Universiteit Gent, he is the author of A People's Green New Deal, and he is the Associate Editor of the Agrarian South Journal.
Check out Max Ajl's articles Palestine's Great Flood Part 1 and Part 2 in Agrarian South Journal: journals.sagepub.com/home/ags
Check out our previous conversation with Max Ajl on the war just 10 days in, from October 17th: kzbin.infoxK0619Eb...
Check out Max All's recent conversation: "Israel: asset or liability of American imperialism? In conversation with Max Ajl" on Jedaal English: kzbin.infoGvg7oeEt...
To support our show become a patron at / millennialsarekillingc...

[@mattesparza2072]

Fantastic conversation. I love Max, his cadence and his voice are both great. Thanks for bringing us another great conversation!

[@richjensen9233]

Can someone provide context to Aji's comment about Rashid Khalidi at about 14:25?

[@liberationspring]

I’d also like to know his critique.

[@phoenixhamilton8893]

I was also going to ask about that too. I know Rashid has an upper class background so I could see that skewing his perception of the issues but I really don’t know

[@leah1170]

Excellent discussion. I really appreciate his candidate response to D Musa’s question, as well as the break down of liberation and sovereignty.

[@verzoe6551]

Amazing, thank you! Need to rewatch this and take notes. I'm so grateful for all the fantastic content, esp in the past few months - respect for the immense amount of socially necessary knowledge you've been providing ❤❤‍🔥

[@MAKCapitalism]

Thank you! 🙏

[@Edmonddantes123]

Fascinating! Any chance to get a list of recommended reading from Max?

[@untitledanarchistseagullch1237]

19:25 Habash's 'Understanding Zionism' also goes into great detail on the state (at the time he was writing) of Israel's investment in education, technological development, etc. It's actually interesting to revisit that chapter of Habash now neoliberalism has been taking a bite out of all of that.

[@MattxRed]

Brilliant discussion as always, thanks for putting this together!

[@MAKCapitalism]

Thanks Matt!

[@robertomonroe6338]

Brilliant discussion

[@etspiritus]

✊🏾🇵🇸

[@nawafdreams]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:39 *🎶 Introduction to the podcast and guest Max Ajl* - Max Ajl a researcher, author, and educator who will discuss theality of the "Palestinian Question" in the world system. - Max has written about the importance of the Palestinian cause and its anti-systemic character. 02:21 *💫 The importance of the Palestinian struggle to the current world system* - The institutions and processes associated with global capitalist accumulation rely on compromises or subjugation of working people in the Global North and South. - Control over oil and the dollar's role as the reserve currency are central to maintaining the current global order, and this is secured through the eradication of challenges. - The "arabist" position of finding peaceful arrangements has historically been rejected in favor of the need to militarily eradicate challenges to the system. 09:46 *🔍 How Israel's role has evolved within the global system* - Israel has become a center of accumulation and a tool for US imperialism, with military aid and investment serving to build up its domestic military-industrial base. - Israel has been subcontracted to carry out policies against revolution in the Third World, supporting neocolonial dictatorships and counterrevolutionary forces. - Israel's role in domestic spying and the development of anti-terror legislation has also been crucial to the global system. 23:10 *🧭 The diversified portfolio of Zionist interests within the US* - Zionist actors like Sheldon Adelson have invested in undermining progressive causes in the US, such as voting rights and public education. - Capitalism is a system ofantagonistic cooperation" between different lobbies and interests, and the Zionist lobby is one such actor serving the broader interests of the system. 24:04 *🔍 The role of Zionist interests in undermining progressivism in the US* - Zionist actors like Sheldon Adelson have invested in undermining progressive causes in the US, such as voting rights and public education. - This is allowed because their actions serve the broader interests of the capitalist system, creating a "quid pro quo" relationship. 24:31 *🌊 The escalation of asymmetric resistance against Israel* - After the 2014 Gaza war, a new equilibrium emerged where Hamas was allowed to rebuild some civilian infrastructure while also covertly building up its military capabilities. - This eventually led to the October 2021 operations by Hamas, which fundamentally threatened Israel's social, economic, and ideological arrangements. - Israel's inability to decisively defeat Hamas through military means has led to an ongoing cycle of escalation and violence. 40:01 *🧭 The structural constraints facing Israel and the US* - Israel cannot accept a two-state solution that would require it to dismantle its extensive settler infrastructure and military presence in the occupied territories. - The US is also unwilling to risk the destabilization of a major strategic ally like Israel, even as the conflict continues to escalate. - This creates a fundamental "loggerhead" situation with no easy way out for either side. 45:31 *🔥 The heavy-handed response to the student solidarity movement* - The repression of student encampments protesting Israel's actions is a reflection of the ruling class's fear of these movements destabilizing key ideological institutions. - The ruling class is not omnipotent or all-knowing, and the unexpected mushrooming of solidarity protests across campuses has caught them off guard. - However, they are prepared to respond with escalated criminalization and surveillance, as these movements directly challenge the legitimacy of US imperialism. 50:02 *🎓 The repression of student activists and the challenges of co-optation* - The repression of student activists protesting Israel's actions is in part targeted at children of the ruling class who are on track to join the institutions of US imperialism. - However, co-optation is the preferred method, as the ruling class would rather dismantle the pressure through negotiation and compromise than resorting to outright violence. - Attempts at co-optation have failed in some cases, leading to the more heavy-handed repression we are seeing. 54:37 *💰 The co-optation of the Palestine solidarity movement* - The Palestine solidarity movement has faced sustained efforts at co-optation through the influx of foundation money and the recruitment of activists into NGO jobs and academia. - This has led to the moderation and de-radicalization of parts of the movement, with some former activists now distancing themselves from the Palestinian cause. - However, a new generation of activists, often getting their information unmediated through platforms like Telegram, is forging a more uncompromising anti-systemic consciousness. 01:00:33 *🔫 The development of Hamas's military capacity and Israel's counterinsurgency strategies* - The decline of factions like Fatah and the PFLP allowed Hamas to emerge as the leading force in Gaza, bolstered by support from Iran and other regional actors. - Hamas's growing military capabilities, including through the October 2021 operations, have forced Israel to rely on increasingly brutal and genocidal counterinsurgency tactics. - Israel's typical counterinsurgency methods have become less effective against the resilience and adaptability of the Palestinian resistance. 01:09:16 *🇮🇷 The role of Iran and regional dynamics* - Iran's support, both material and ideological, has been crucial in bolstering the military capacities of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. - However, Iran is unlikely to become directly involved in the conflict unless Hezbollah's position is threatened, as that would risk sparking a larger regional conflagration. - There are unwritten "rules of the game" that constrain the level of escalation, though these can be discarded in the face of genocidal policies like those against Gaza. 01:15:32 *🌍 The uneven marginalization of anti-Zionism and anti-imperialism in the Arab world* - Anti-Zionism and anti-imperialism remain strong in countries like Tunisia, Morocco, and Jordan, though often suppressed through repression. - Sectarian and media narratives have also contributed to the erosion of these sentiments in parts of the Arab world. 01:19:25 *🌍🇨🇬 The limited connections between anti-imperialist struggles in Africa* - There is a lack of clarity and depth of understanding about the significant political processes unfolding in West Africa among many activists. - The North Africa-Sub-Saharan Africa connections are currently quite weak, limiting the potential for building effective anti-imperialist alliances. 01:22:33 *🇹🇳 The role of boycotts in isolating Israel* - The Arab boycott, which goes beyond the targeted BDS approach, is more expansive and impactful in non-normalizing states like Tunisia. - The boycotts are helping raise awareness about the political nature of economic interactions under capitalism. 01:28:18 *🇵🇸 The importance of national liberation struggles as working-class struggles* - Figures like Cabral and Fanon distinguished national sovereignty from genuine national liberation, which required a struggle against neocolonialism and for socialist transformation. - The loss of political sovereignty often leads to the suppression of working-class welfare, as seen in the devastation of Syria's healthcare system after the onset of the conflict. 01:37:41 *🇷🇺🇨🇳 The roles of Russia and China* - Russia's new diplomatic embrace of Yemen and China's recent statements regarding the October 2021 events in Palestine are notable developments. - However, neither Russia nor China are likely to take radical action in support of national liberation struggles, as their leadership is oriented towards preserving their positions within the existing capitalist world system. 01:40:11 *🇷🇺 Russia's role and limitations* - Russia played an important role in preventing the collapse of the Syrian state, which would have had disastrous consequences for the broader region. - However, Russia's commitment to fully restoring Syrian sovereignty has been limited by its own duplicity and lack of full-fledged support. 01:41:57 *🇨🇳 China's role and support for Iran* - China has provided significant technological, financial, and diplomatic support to Iran, helping it circumvent sanctions and maintain its position. - This support for an "autonomous technological pole" outside of US-NATO control has indirectly bolstered the capabilities of asymmetric militias in the region. 01:43:07 *🌍 Yemen's transition from an "asset militia" to a state power* - The transformation of the conflict in Yemen, where the Houthis have transitioned from an "asset militia" to a state power, represents a significant shift in the regional dynamics. - This development further complicates the geopolitical landscape and the ability of external powers to maintain control over the situation. 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