Palmer's Peeves: Forks

[@GreysonHoward]

"If you're brand loyal, don't be." This, 100 times this.

[@johnchase271]

I totally agree, what kills me though is when the bike I want is 2k more than one that's pretty close to the one I want for the same build

[@bigboybiker]

Why not be loyal? What if you love the bikes, have been treated well and that’s what your favourite LBS carries? Seems like some great reasons to be loyal.

[@jaysmallen3067]

I’m 5’7” and steep techy stuff, park laps etc put a smile on my face. I may just suck at riding 29ers, but they are not confidence inspiring in the slightest for the stuff I like. 27.5” is the sweet spot for me. 26” is fun too. At 51yrs old I’m not quite old enough for a 29er yet lol!

[@mattleonard5268]

Jay Smallen lol well said. I like the steep techy, almost park-like riding and my 26 inch 160mm enduro bike is right at home.

[@mattleonard5268]

Jay Smallen I’m 5’10” for reference

[@henry06x]

27.5 was 100% necessary when 29 was super sluggish and 26 would get stuck on everything with the steep HA of the day. The 27.5 was a nice placeholder till they could figure out geometry and the sluggishness of a 29er. I still love my 27.5 bike and feel 26 is a bit too small.

[@rstrakovsky]

650b is not a crime.

[@WildOutdoorLiving]

27.5 is a misnomer anyways, 26 = 559, 27.5 = 584, 29 = 622. You can easily see how much closer 27.5 is to 26 than it is to 29 when you know what the actual rim size is.

[@mattleonard5268]

henry06x when I ride nothing but my 26 inch 160mm enduro bike, it’s just right. But then I go back to it after riding my 29er hardtail and all of a sudden it does kinda seem too small, and kinda like it won’t keep enough momentum. It almost feels too slow.

[@jeremyatkinson4976]

The sluggish feeling of the early 29ers was due to short offset forks......

[@hardtailparty]

PREACH! So true. The big benefit of 27.5 to me is that it brought about plus tires. For bikepacking, nothing beats a plus tire.

[@ardor4247]

The offset issue is legit and thanks for bringing it up, Ryan. Too many brands are slapping shorter offsets with headangles and stem configurations that it just feels terrible with all because it’s trendy. Buyers beware!

[@jeremymcguire7069]

I'm a 26er kind of guy, but it's pretty hard to find a new 26" bike besides a slopestyle, so 27.5 will do. One thing that's great is modern mtb's are so good that the only things worth complaining about are the expense and that there are too many options!

[@manueldavila7988]

Checkout the Banshee Rune or Spitfire. Interchangeable dropouts! I just built the latter one up with my old 26er’s wheels and fork. 160/135 26er. Fun as hell.

[@BrickBike]

That Stumpjumper with a Fox 38 🤣

[@Yhigma]

A lot of people had great success running 150mm/160mm forks on the Hightower 1. I have the Hightower LT and it's basically the same thing as that bike long fork + long-shocked. One of my favorite bikes for all-day solo pedaling + shredding the double blackies. Only other bike that interested me for that type of riding is a Ripmo at the moment.

[@hardmtnbiker]

I can’t wait to hear what you think about mullet bikes, lol. Especially the frames that where set up a 27.5 or 29er and people are switching wheels, sometimes to just go down to 27.5 and fit bigger tires or sometimes they just forget to change the front wheel size. Lol

[@Bikemagazine]

Palmer weighed in on those last year! He liked them, but he had the same hesitation about us riders thinking we're smarter than bike designers. Also, we were still fighting calling them "mullet bikes" at the time. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJaZmIiJf8ysotk&feature=emb_logo

[@NoBrakes23]

Palmer: "Don't overfork a bike" "The bike designers know more than you" Also Palmer: "Get a Lunch Ride" "27.5 and short offset forks are distracting" The Lunch Ride is the non-bike-designer guys just throwing too much fork on the bike. It has Yeti's blessing, but it is everything Palmer is complaining about. Also, why bring up Axle to Crown, when that doesn't always change with suspension height?

[@commongroundbikes7138]

He does mention that he thinks going over by 10 millimeters like the LR does isn't that big a deal. And if we're comparing between two models of the same fork, their at-rest axle to crown lengths absolutely do increase when you increase travel.

[@esdubya]

The lunch ride has also a increase in shock stroke and a slightly different yoke size. It certainly isn’t just a case of over forking.

[@akjdhfkqwrhetkjanfvkkkresae]

@@esdubya Yoke is the same. It just lengthens the stroke of the shock. The frame is the same.

[@tehllama42]

Me: Immediately starts looking into longer air spring setups for every fork I own. Get dunked on.

[@EstebanRapido]

I did the same thing. I went from a 51mm to a 44mm offset fork. It didn't matter for that bike. Ironically, it was for a carbon Gary Fisher Super Fly 29 single speed, one of the earliest "G2" bikes. I wish it was a 51mm fork but sometimes you can't pass up a good price.

[@chrispobanz5058]

you nailed it on the head, I hate over forking bikes. I have a ripley, and I realized I needed more bike for my trails so I bought a forbidden druid. the 140 just didn't feel great, and the rear quickly hits its limit. The offset thing is annoying as well. Great points.

[@Ingrimmsch91]

I ve compensat with an offset buschig at the back for the travel change on the front ( only 10mm ) but get slackend the head angle by 2degree with the same bb hight 🤔. What’s your opinion about this ???

[@joachimgrammig9590]

No issue with diameter upgrades, Ryan? Did that with my fox 34 on my 2015 altitude recently. Went to 36 and like it a lot. No travel change though...

[@henry06x]

Lmao. Love the throwing ebikes out there at the end to get shit started!

[@michael_the_chef]

If you are a big guy but want a playful bike, or a bike that works good in the alps where we have a lot of technical shit to ride, 650b is so much better than 26 inch. Also its more stable at higher speeds than 26 inch. 29 is great for high speed and rough stuff, to get a nice stable ride.

[@aluminumhorserider6197]

Overthinking is the main problem, ride what makes you smile the most...

[@Alexandros_Patsialidis]

A real eye-opener!!! Thanks dude 🙏🏼

[@torgsgotboards]

Ryan, are the new 38mm forks that just came out sort of a peeve? For a regular rider like me, it just seems like I'm getting a heavier fork with little noticeable difference and next to no benefit. Why can't I get a 170 lyric or fox36? What do you think?

[@anthonywalters7434]

I’m running a 120mm fork on my hardtail that was meant to run a 100mm fork and it is so much better that way, yes the reach is a bit shorter but I put a 50mm stem on as a replacement for the 90mm so it’s not like I cared much. It feels 10x better on the descents and on jumps and it’s only a little bit worse on climbs.

[@boblloyd3006]

OK - I hear ya! What about putting a 29” fork on a 27.5 Stumpjumper, same 130mm of travel but going to + size front tire or even running it as a mullet?

[@mattleonard5268]

Lol the Jamis Parker. The epitome of an “over-forked” bike.

[@cascas1478]

Transition bottlerocket.

[@mikes.8305]

Bike Standards aside, on the Turbo SL I replaced my 150 Fox 34 51mm offset with a 160mm 36 44mm offset and the ride improved so much. I would have kept the 51mm rake, but I had a spare 44mm fork lying around. It probably slackened the head angle 2 degrees, and definitely raised the bottom bracket(not that I can tell on the trail). The only real negative geo change that’s tangible is that it slackened the already slack seat tube angle, but climbing vagueness is not my primary concern. IDK Palmer, Cry me a river;). Some bikes this may not work well in, but I’m happy to report that on the SL this change feels really good!

[@curtisnewkirk6112]

I find your comments on short offset interesting. I am currently riding a 2020 Kona Process 153, bought as a frame and swapped parts from a previous build to Process. I am running a 44mm offset Bomber Z1 on it and I haven’t had any experiences thus far feeling like I am going to go over the bars. So either my frame coped better, or my riding style is not forward enough. Not sure, but you have me shopping for the 51mm offset Bomber haha

[@bryancola6655]

I have a Yeti sb100 with a step cast 34 fork. Yeti specs the bike with a 44 offset but mine in a 51. It rides like a dream.

[@kresokresovski7515]

SC MEGATOWER 170 mm fork and short or long offset?

[@jamiepybus6195]

You didn’t mention the crappy plastic cable clamps

[@Windband1]

Look at you rockin' the River City SWAG. P-town represent!

[@GoatRidesBikes]

The "Over Forked Bike". LOL. Dig the term.

[@waynephilbert]

Overforking rocks, within reason. +20mm has been great in my experience. Wouldn't go any further. Manufacturer recommended / approved too.

[@DeathSc00p]

6:00 Googol is a word, meaning the number 10^100

[@hunterwright386]

I love watching people complain

[@turner02]

we need more palmer's peeves!!

[@StravaigingMTB]

Unnecessary up forking, 100% with you on this. I think for many people it is a psycholigical crutch. "I cant ride that as I don't had 150-170 up front". I also think this leads to a lot of people being over biked generally. Getting the Enduro when actually the Trek Fuel is all they need. I have a BTR Ranger. It is a crazy capable enduro bike (hardtail) designed to do what frames like the Chromag Stylus do, and is built for a 120mm fork. Nuff said.

[@ryancorbyn]

Everyone loves a good moan. Bike standards are highly explosive moan-fuel. “But is it Boost?”

[@catg9196]

I own a SC Hightower LT and use a short 42mm even though it was supposed to be a 51mm. Don’t know how a 51mm feels like. But my 42mm Lyrik feels awesome on my LT! Quick on its feet and stable at high speeds. My 2 cents 🤘🏼

[@JTManuel]

I'm guilty of over forking my bike. It's more of aesthetic and mental; I've got a gnarly bike with gnarly travel. More balls between my legs. Hahahaha!

[@collinalbert]

Only front travel though.....

[@fuellerr]

I put a 160mm fork on my 2018 Levo that was 135 in the rear and it was Awesome !!!

[@justgo4033]

I put a 170mm fork on a hardtail designed for 150 , i even emailed the company and they said 160mm max . The thing is i got a good deal and i saved 400$ . i dont notice much of a difference, i just took out the 10mm spacers under my stem.

[@rstrakovsky]

Ha, I love these! 27.5 is fine though, best of bother worlds baby, yes I am stuck in 2015. It was a good year.

[@johnryan2288]

You know what grinds my gears?...Chaps my hide? This episode of Palmer's Peeves! 💩

[@shayne131]

So Palmer what about my guy Fabien Barel? He works for Canyon and as he would say "Boosts his Strive and Spectral On to receive a 180mm fork". What say you to this controversy?

[@headoverbars8750]

What about bikes that have arguably too low BB hight when in low flip chip setting? (2019 Fuel EX) Furthermore, I want to run 27.5 plus wheels during certain rides vs my current 29er. The BB may be way too low then... My fork idea is internally adjustable so I will be able to see for myself. As for brand loyalty, I bought a Trek which I said I would never buy, only because I got a smoking deal on last years demo minus $600 in seasons demo fees applied. It was the only way to afford a bike that nice at the time... now I want more fork (at least better than my RockShox Recon 32mm). Good point about it working as a system... the 2020 has 140mm vs 130mm fork but also different frame design, more reach

[@tarikmoore849]

First thing I did on my 2019 fuel ex is swap the recon out for a cane creek helm. Set the travel at 150mm for Florida riding and now it’s at 170mm for the bike parks. Was awesome. I now have a 170 fox 36 factory up front. Get rid of that recon!

[@radidoc4832]

I agree that overforking is not ideal but, most of us can't afford a new bike and apparently the designers did a "shifty job" 5 years ago according to the industry, so we are limited in our options.

[@wldtrak]

Palmer! You’re the man! 🤙🏻

[@letzrockitrite8469]

Love this bit !

[@HamzaFaruqui]

Wtf😂😂😂😂 how did Ryan fuck up the Google Apple thing?!! He really was on a roll there😂

[@peteedwards5438]

Biggest Pev on Forks is the Price! $1500 for Kashima!

[@cascas1478]

Don’t fall for it. Dont need it. Don’t buy it.

[@paulwintermute1495]

I agree with everything with one point I would highlight. Going 10mm over on your fork is OKAY! It's not going to ruin anything. Stick a 140 on your Ripley and HAVE A GREAT DAY! Stick a 170 on your enduro bike that came with a 160. Guess what? Half the EWS guys do! Having said that... going 20mm over stock is just silly and wrong.

[@The.JZA.]

I agree with you. I upgraded the Fox Rhythm 34 150mm on my Stumpjumper Comp Carbon 29 to a Fox Factory 36 150mm. I looked at offsets, travel etc and did heaps of research (I’m a structural engineer so I have a good understanding of geometry and dynamics) and I ended up settling and just keeping the same travel and offset. I did wonder though, if I put a 160mm on it and set the sag such that the bike sits at the same height when riding I.e. exposed stanchion is the same/bottom bracket at the same height when riding, would that be a good compromise? Yes there would be slightly more vacuum in the lowers and slightly less pressure in the air spring at the sag point but it would give the fork an extra ~10mm of extension when going over undulating terrain and extra travel when landing jumps which might make landings a tiny bit smoother. It’s an interesting concept and it would be cool to test it. Like if you put a 170mm fork on a bike designed for a 140mm fork but set the sag height the same so that all the geometry is correct and then ride it back to back to see if it makes a positive or negative difference. Might be a good video idea ;)

[@RideAlongside]

Palmers Peeves fodder: 31.8mm vs 1-1/8” Stems have both, one on either end, yet it’s exactly the same measurement. Why?!

[@spankroy]

Ha! Back in the day I had a 130mm fork on my Santa Cruz Superlight. I ended up getting a Bullit not long after.

[@Veil_Ants]

This is a bit of a over generalization. 30mm up-forking isn't much of an problem at all. Also, saying your "ruining" your Investment by putting 20mm longer fork on it, also if you run a longer fork and run more Sag, then you your ride height will be similar but more "negative" travel to fill bigger holes on the trail.

[@cristobernalbarajas3458]

Muy buen video

[@eonwheels]

Someone needs to make a bike with something like 100 mm in the back designed around a 160mm fork. I love both my 150mm hardtail and my 160mm Full sus, but it seems like there's nothing in between

[@ashram772]

Ive been thinking of this for a while too, it would accelerate so well and feel so nimble yet still handle black runs, it would be a hoot to ride.

[@burnum5433]

Nice. I have the same old Logitech THX computer speakers in my garage. They rock while working on your rides.

[@RhubarbVIVII]

26 should stay around for kids moving up from 24. Ease the transition for some!

[@LucianoSilva-rk6vw]

Video sempre legal.👌👌👌

[@vihrenkostadino]

If Goldmember was a mountain biker..

[@marcosmadrazo2440]

Nice one Ryan! 🍻

[@cyrusbaker4874]

I personally disagree with the short offset. The latest geo trends+short offset on 29ers was the final piece of the pie for me to make them feel like magic in corners. I never got along with the cornering on longer offset forks on 29ers as well.

[@StravaigingMTB]

See Chris Porters words on this. Hes a short offset pioneer.

[@cyrusbaker4874]

Stravaiging MTB, so he’s been saying this stuff for years! Amazing how long it takes the industry to catch on to good ideas.

[@StravaigingMTB]

@@cyrusbaker4874 he has a company now making after market crowns for dual crown forks to get the offset you want. Really smart design.

[@cyrusbaker4874]

Stravaiging MTB I’ll put that on my wish list for next tine my 36 gets a creaky CSU....

[@bugboy152000]

Your peeves put me at ease.

[@sha317]

next topic Super boost🤮

[@starsky8351]

People said the same about boost....

[@alexking4082]

@@starsky8351 Then everyone adopted boost. And now it's fine. Nobody wants to adopt super boost.

[@GeeCee-rr5hk]

Super boost is sick. Ride a pivot and it will all make sense.

[@madjh8]

29" is the worst measure for trails ... so no more boring 29ers 29ers are for taller people, and for roads, they are soooo boring that some one invented the gravel bicycles even when CX is near the same. 27.5 are more funn and nimble.

[@elijahbettencourt8302]

27.5 is life

[@dank3823]

My bike isn't over forked. It will be when I get that 38.

[@robertonjr10]

I dont think its overforking it, I mean, the improvements on that fork are great 🤘🏻

[@andyboy198577777]

Great video man. I was thinking of “overforking” my remedy before I saw this. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks man. I almost ruined my bike! Bb is already high enough!

[@finerbiner]

140mm Pike on my Ripley is great.

[@A.D.D.O.C.D.T]

Not explaining things properly is part of the marketing.

[@fohman2796]

When I remember that my bike has a 150mm fork when it should have 120mm

[@strulk]

LOL good one plus e-bike discussion are like warzones :-) and i own one Ha Ha

[@severinethomas7954]

J’aimerais tellement en avoir un aussi

[@jayluikart487]

Got it, always get a new bike.

[@Kot1026]

My peeve with forks (and bikes in general) is boost. It's a nightmare to upgrade wheels or fork on your non boost bike when all the industry have already switched to boost. Buying an aftermarket non boost fork is possible yet, but they're not produced anymore, so it's just a matter of time when they will be sold out. Putting non boost wheels on a boost bike is possible with the use of adaptors, but the opposite is impossible...

[@jcsrst]

Over-forked!! 🤣

[@bitumen83]

Lets we complain about bike prices. IMO top alu full-sus bike should cost 3000EUR/USD and carbon 5000EUR/USD.

[@shrimpfriedrice494]

Yeah and in my opinion that Lambo I want should only cost $10,000.

[@collinalbert]

Invalid arguement. Too much goes into the economics behind the price.

[@brandonperez2267]

The threshold for over-forking is 20mm for bikes that are designed with descending in mind. Anything more and you’re just a tool.

[@Bikesands]

I’m glad my Following likes a 140mm Pike. 😁

[@jdwells7233]

You fuckin rock Palmer. Ebikes uggg. I just don't know.. probably will have to get one cuz somethings gonna kill my ass might as well be what i love man. Mtbing.... ✌

[@MilkBone3327]

Emtb are awesome! Don’t take it so personal

[@saldelatorre805]

Who pissed on your Cheerios? 😂 You’re not my real dad. I’m gonna put a 180mm fork on my 160mm bike.

[@OverTheHillMTB]

what the Fork!?!

[@garybusy6102]

Next video... Palmers Peeves... Ryan Palmer: Ok, so, V P P Suspension....

[@FreeLander5280]

I accidentally watched the first half of this with the volume down. But it's ok. I could totally follow everything you were saying about over forking because of all the hand gestures. Thanks! #love this shit!

[@canadianboyee]

Please make mullet bikes go away too, the 26" up front and 24" in the back was cool 20 years ago not it's making a come back

[@andrewcox7416]

If we are gonna be on the topic of forks, how about the fact that a 1,000-1,200$ fork creaking like an old whore from the CSU within 20 hours or less

[@tmwei396]

That's what you get for buying an iPhone. Their mapping sucks too. I've always had an Android and a few years ago my wife got fed up with the iPhone and did the switch to Android. But yet people are still brand loyal (get my drift?) to Apple products.

[@ErichVonCartmann]

Bike Designers have no clue what they are doing. It is only by Racer inputs and Race Results is when they will will design the bike correctly. It took a about a good 30 years for Bike Designers to finally get the Geometry right!

[@jeremymcguire7069]

The right geometry is dependent on the bike's purpose. The right geometry for an xc bike is terrible for a downhill course. A great enduro geometry bike is a pretty miserable bike to pedal up a fire road for hours. The bikes of 30 years ago were well-suited to the mild trail riding they were designed for.

[@ErichVonCartmann]

@@jeremymcguire7069, ok I will play with you. Let's pick one type of riding, say XC racing. What was the Geometry 30 years ago? What is it now? These days, even a short travel bike like the the 120mm Santa Criz Tallboy has a 65 deg HTA and a 76 STA. Almost the exact same numbers as the 160mm Megatower. If we are talking a 1 quiver Mtn Bike, the Geometry have been all wrong for about 38 years, it was not till about 2018 is when the Mountain Bike Designers got the Geo right. Like I said, bike designers do not really know anything about riding!

[@jeremymcguire7069]

@@ErichVonCartmann The Tallboy is not an xc bike it's a trail bike. The Blur is Santa Cruz's xc bike with 69 HTA and 74 STA. Both of those angles are comparable to the angles used 30 years ago for xc bikes. I suggest that bike designers do know something about how to make a great bike.

[@henry06x]

I think it took enduro racing. Shit has really changed since enduro started driving it. Stiffer, slacker, droppers, light weight actual wearable full face helmets, integrated tools.. enduro has really changed the industry. Without it we’d still have steep ha trail bikes influenced by CC and DH/FR bikes that don’t pedal imo.

[@ErichVonCartmann]

Jeremy McGuire , do you even ride the trails and the bike parks? and if you do, do you look around and observe to see what people ride? Do you even even attend the local races? If you do all these, and you look around, I am sure you can tell me that there are all types of bikes at all these places. IT IS 95% RIDER anyways! The Tallboy can be used for both XC Racing and Enduro and it can get pretty decent results at both too! Maybe a wheel and tires swap for optimization. Besides, the Blur is due for an update, wait till the new Blur comes out, I am sure the HTA will drop and the STA will get steeper. All Mountain Bicycling has been around for more than 30 years now, and it was only 2 years ago is when the Geometry for ALL these bikes got right. XC bikes tend to be the slowest when it comes to updates. Let's wait another 2-3 years and you will see the geo of those bikes changing too. If we were to really look at the evolution of all mountain bicycles, we will see that the bike makers really have no clue what they are doing. From year to year they just use existing designs with minor tweaks. They do NOT design their bikes around what works, they design their bikes around what sells. There were guys 20 years ago that basically said "these bikes are all wrong for the dirt, they are nothing more than over glorified road bikes". I believe it was Modraker that was the first to get it right, about 5 years ago, as they were the first to manufacture bikes with Modern Geo; and the rest just followed. XC racing has changed a lot in the past 2 years as the courses has gotten more knarlier, and in the future it will change even more, and get more knarlier. The Gravel Bikes of today are designed for the XC courses of yesterday. The Mountain Bike Industry is finally figuring out that XC bikes are mountain bikes and not road bikes! So therefore the XC course should be chunky mountain dirt courses and NOT red carpet smooth road bike courses. Please discuss...

[@purotito88]

Up fork, and then use the ride9 in the steep setting ;). Geometry fixed! Lol.

[@padureancalin8096]

Bro I know you're very good in this industry, we'll do whatever we want despite and inspite your "gears" wanna grind...leave us alone :)

[@nomadcarpenter8549]

I completely disagree with you on overforking if you know what your doing and understand the ramifications. I put a 160 for on my whyte s150 and it was better as the bb was low to begin with, but I definitely won't be putting a longer fork on the super slack 2021 meta am.

[@RaM.1.N]

Do you put Turkish subtitles on videos

[@Socalmtb88]

We literally relabel shit in this industry. A fox 38 or 36, a 5 inch to 6 inch use to be a free ride bike, then it was all mountain now its enduro to trail yeah technology is better but just makes my old ass laugh.

[@تيمالحجي-ط2و]

HLO

[@shrimpfriedrice494]

I'm sorry but that offset argument was just bad. Since the difference in geometry between a 44mm offset and 51mm offset optimized bike would be so much smaller than simply a different brand's geometry, how do you classify a 44mm offset optimized bike? Companies like Knolly even say you can use either depending on how you want the bike to feel. I find it quite comical how you think a bike can be completely ruined by such a small difference.

[@jalmer17]

Where can I buy a bicycle

[@braydenhall1835]

A bicycle shop

[@SiMPLYHaZZaRD]

Walmart

[@brettungvari]

Less of these videos. We have enough negativity in the world and the mtb industry. So what if somebody throws a Fox 38 on a Levo SL. They are probably way faster than you and ride different terrain. Lame.

[@mando7398]

27.5 is a waste, I agree with Ryan, feels just like a 26 to me. 29ers all the way.

[@كرزاية-غ3ض]

انا اول تعليق