Panasonic introduces new home battery to rival the Tesla Powerwall

[@ultrastoat3298]

0:56 when the beat drops.

[@oldgandy5355]

When the big energy supply companies finally get on board and begin providing materials, installation, and maintenance for similar systems, the price will come down, and we will see fossil fuel powered grids mostly go away. Coal and gas companies will have to join the renewable energy sector or they will cease to exist.

[@jonb5493]

Some intelligent nudging from government would help, too. I'm disappointed with gov's blassee attitude to home storage. Rather than grant 5K GBP for a heat pump, it might be better to steer installations of home batteries, thus reducing peak load on the grid. All of this leads in the direction of the "internet of grid" where many intermittent power sources are pulled by smart consumers who do not need to be pushed continuous, expensive, 24x7 peak power.

[@Jdinaz]

Software software software… that’s what really makes the powerwall. I wouldn’t trade mine.

[@vec306]

Agreed

[@Jdinaz]

@@vec306 as they say.. the separation is in the preparation

[@rattusfinkus]

I don't know about the software part. I have a DIY 60kwh pack for my off-grid home and there's no software to speak of. It just works, sure I check the BMSs occasionally and the SOC of the packs but nothing fancy. And my system cost 1/5 of a comparable sized Tesla system. Nothing beats Cubic inches of prismatic cells.

[@JonathanRootD]

It's a battery. What does Teslas software do that a DIY one doesn't which makes the price gap worth it?

[@johncavanaugh6481]

The new Enphase 5p is the best battery to get. It’s lithium ion phosphate and comes with a 15 year warranty.

[@stevenliew2507]

I will watch for the Chinese Sodium based Power Wall which should be coming out soon as most likely be more affordable & safer ( very very low probability of instantaneous combustion unlike that of lithium battery power wall ).

[@rustybucket2248]

You do know that LiFeP do not have the “Fire problem” this is why this chemistry was invented. I will be very surprised if the Sodium batteries are in volume production anytime soon. If the sodium batteries live up to there promised potential, I will be delighted, but that is not the way it usually goes. Li is still only at about 10% of it’s known potential and it has untold $billions and 30+ years of research and development behind it.

[@jonb5493]

PLEASE PLEASE ASAP!!??!!

[@jonb5493]

@@rustybucket2248 My understanding is that LFP, while dramatically superior to other Li tecs regarding fire-hazard, is still not zero risk. Na-ion is zero. If I'm wrong, pleased post some links. BTW this has a critical impact on me right now. I would much rather locate the battery inside my house where there's a super convenient spot, but even with LFP, I feel compelled to build a little mini-shed outside for the battery_inverter - a real pain. I don't want to come back to a heap of ashes one day.

[@rustybucket2248]

@@jonb5493 a little about me. I am a retired Silicon Valley engineer EE, ME CS, Optics. When I retired I became a mentor for a number of EV start ups, coaching High school interns was part of the gig. I am proud to say that a number of those interns are now in senior positions at Tesla and the rest of the Electric economy. I leased a total of 3 GM EV 1s in the late 90s. I drive a now almost 7 year old Tesla Model S, and I have 2 powerwalls, 12KW AC of Solar and it is all grid inter tied. We are almost at peak hype on the Sodium-ion batteries. Elemental sodium is absolutely a fire hazard. As a binary salt NACL ordinary table salt is extraordinary stable and we could not live without it. If the promised batteries appear we will start to have real data. For the sake of argument I am going to ignore the chemistry. Can a NA-ion battery start a fire absolutely I have witnessed 1000 amp battery fires on lead acid batteries, the batteries didn’t catch fire or explode but everything around them was destroyed. The fire started with just a tiny spark. The problem with High voltage DC power is that once an arc (spark) is established it doesn’t go out. AC in contrast has a power interruption with every cycle (60 time a second). This is one of the reasons that High voltage DC switches and circuit interrupters are different that their AC counter parts. The Fires that get all of the popular press are almost always because of physical damage to the sealed battery containment box. A properly designed battery system (it’s not just a battery) has fuses between every cell so that cell failing catastrophically doesn’t lead to a module or pack fire. My powerwalls are mounted on the outside of my garage no shed no nothing. They are designed and rated for operation outside. I park and charge my car in the garage. We all want cheaper batteries and they are coming. The biggest thing that is driving battery cost down is economies of scale. The chemistry is constantly being tweaked to optimize cycle life, design out rare earth metals… I have no idea what kind of battery will be in the cars and stationary battery storage of 10 years from now and don’t really care. I know they will be cheaper and better than the ones we have today. I get waiting for the prices to come down, we all have to live within our means. I would have no concern installing Powerwalls inside or outside of my house if I were you. For some background Google: EPRI Sodium Sulphur battery. The battery technology is not the same as the NA-ion batteries, but I think you will find it interesting to follow the various links. Regards, Rusty.

[@nordic5490]

LFP cannot be charge below 0°C. Sodium can. Anyone who lives in a cold climate should be buying the sodium batteries. Or, Tesla power walls are massively overpriced. I can easily make one for 1/3 the price. I just made a 3.3kwhr LFP off grid battery for camping, mainly to run the induction cooking and boil the kettle. Off grid power is surprisingly easy and cheap to do now.

[@preconzilla1487]

.2023 The most important thing that should be on everyone's mind today should be to invest in different sources of income that are not dependent on the government. Especially with the current economic crisis around the world. This is still a great time to invest in various gold, silver, and digital currency stocks.

[@luxurycarplug5359]

I believe I can achieve all I want it's just matter of time. I invest more, spend less now I have a networt of $3.6m

[@luxurycarplug5359]

crypto Investment should on every wise individuals bucket list. You will be ecstatic of the decision you made today.

[@preconzilla1487]

This is good I guess I'm not alone in this world

[@luxurycarplug5359]

all you mention are all good but ill advise you venture into crypto first because it will help you grow your portfolio very fast and it require not so much to start

[@luxurycarplug5359]

Going into crypto trade/invest isn't affected with bitcoin price its the signal and your trade experience that speaks unlike storing . You can start with little invest it and watch it grow to generate profits that's how I have grown my net worth

[@jonathannumer5415]

You can’t even view price estimates on their website, you basically have to submit all of your personal information for a quote. 1. How am I supposed to know what I want unless you give me a base price. 2. If I see that form of business I walk away. I will not play games.

[@pnketia]

Tesla is switching to LFP cells in the next generation powerwalls. The Tesla VPP is a hands down winner for homeowners plus their software is consistently being updated unlike traditional home backup storage companies.

[@nordic5490]

Tesla power walls are massively overpriced. I can easily make one for 1/3 the price. I just made a 3.3kwhr LFP off grid battery for camping, mainly to run the induction cooking and boil the kettle. Off grid power is surprisingly easy and cheap to do now.

[@nordic5490]

LFP cannot be charge below 0°C. Sodium can. Anyone who lives in a cold climate should be buying the sodium batteries.

[@pnketia]

@@nordic5490 I'm pretty sure the brilliant engineers at Tesla have already addressed that since they have cars in Norway with LFP batteries.

[@pnketia]

@@nordic5490 I agree you can make a cheaper home energy storage, but you can't make their VPP which is the keystone of their ecosystem.

[@Cmdaddy88]

Shame we dont get Panasonic solar panels or batteries in Australia

[@willm5814]

I’m not poor, but after I put in 6000 watts of solar for my net-metering system, I decided I couldn’t afford to spend another $20k CAD for storage - just finished building my own for $5k.

[@nordic5490]

Good for you. Tesla power walls are massively overpriced. I can easily make one for 1/3 the price. I just made a 3.3kwhr LFP off grid battery for camping, mainly to run the induction cooking and boil the kettle. Off grid power is surprisingly easy and cheap to do now.

[@MrGMawson2438]

Afternoon mate

[@sparkysho-ze7nm]

Gudday mate best one all week 👍

[@troyswan7123]

Have you seen those ads for the 4000$ home batteries

[@junkvista61]

If you have the link please share. Thanks

[@joelaichner3025]

Panasonic , they make the best everything

[@kitatit]

I love Panasonic cordless 18v power tools. Unfortunately, at least here in Australia, Panasonic seems to have just completely lost interest in developing their product line several years ago and they are almost unheard of now. Their batteries are truely excellent .Also, Panasonic seemed to be very difficult for retailers to deal with. I don’t know why but it seems Panasonic Japan ‘s corporate culture appears to be a bit inflexible. I don’t trust them to stay in the business and support the end user. Often these large Japanese corporations choke on their internal bureaucracy and end up way too far detached from their consumer markets. It’s frustrating and sad, as I want them and their quality to succeed. I fear Toyota is going the same way.

[@grantguy8933]

Japanese is never known for any software enhanced product.

[@frankcoffey]

In Texas you can be part of the Tesla virtual power plant and make money with your powerwall. You can’t do that if you have some other brand.

[@johnfrancis4401]

You’d think that Panasonic would be cheaper for the same specification

[@MrGMawson2438]

Sounds good if it lasts longer than Tesla

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

V2G is the killer feature. EV batteries will make money like the South Australian big battery. $100 million installed, paid for in one year, day trading electricity and stability on the national grid. If the home robotic vacuum cleaner can plug into the grid, the the selfparking EV can plug itself into the national grid. Ezi pezi. No petroleum bills. No power bills. Money in the bank monthly. Cash flow positive. National power grid is UNLOADED and protected. Extra grid capacity is never needed, $billions and $billions of governments money SAVED. TAX PAYER'S MONEY SAVED. Hello, hello anyone home, hello 👋

[@nordic5490]

Correct. This is why Tesla does not offer V2G in any of their cars. V2G would cannabilise Tesla power sales. It is all about the profit first.

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@@nordic5490 and the battery is free in the EV, Hahaha 😆

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

@nordic5490 any other manufacturer will have a feature advantage over Tesla. Tesla has a VPP on trial in Adelaide and Melbourne, but with the power wall.

[@KingAquariumJunkie]

Neither better options to power your home with lower costs

[@pettigrewtristan]

Good video, was expecting a Panasonic bashing.

[@neilfromclearwaterfl81]

My only reservation about committing at this time is the potential rapid drop in the price of electricity. While personal solar and batteries can earn you money back today with the cost of electricity at 15 cents per kWh and higher here in the US, will it continue to be saving enough to pay for itself until the installation is paid off if/when the cost of electricity follows the trend that Tony Seba apparently quite accurately predicted and drops below 5 cents per kWh? In parts of Europe we are already seeing the start of this with Free Electricity on the weekends. Today with the 15+ cents per kWh cost of electricity if your monthly electric bill is over $100 per month then there is potential for payback with perhaps a little profit while at 5 cents or less per kWh would that only be viable for people paying over $300 per month? At 15 cents per kWh we are talking around 670 kWh per month usage to equal $100 while at 5 cents per kWh you'd have to using 2,000 kWh to equal $100 and 6,000 kWh to equal $300. Basically do I pay for driving the cost of electricity down today or just wait and reap the benefit from letting others do so? Best!

[@nordic5490]

Tesla does not offer V2G in any of their cars. V2G would cannabilise Tesla power sales. It is all about the profit first.

[@7_of_9]

A zillion middleman make system like this unaffordable

[@bydman5320]

$20k for a powerwall that stores $3 worth of electricity? Come on people wake up

[@james_l4337]

Arson - anything happens now in Australia Don't ever buy any ternary battery for properties also Not vehicle

[@danharold3087]

These are LFP batteries as are the ones in Tesla powerwalls. I assume both have good thermal management systems too.

[@james_l4337]

@@danharold3087 I'm not so sure about that, Australian authorities thinks the bigger the power the better the battery Panasonic is ternary battery however it is safer as they are individual cell Only when arson is done it will become inferno Tesla battery unless Tesla get this from CATL it will be ternary batteries Hopefully you are right Tesla batteries for properties , power polls are LFP I'm skeptical about this implementation I think some portion of them will Not be LFP but ternary batteries And one day some youths, mystery group will set fire to them Like they have done to bush fires

[@linoiovenitti7207]

Tesla Chadstone last week, asked for the price of the Powerwall. He said $17000 installed. Still up there

[@nordic5490]

Yup. Tesla power walls are massively overpriced. I can easily make one for 1/3 the price. I just made a 3.3kwhr LFP off grid battery for camping, mainly to run the induction cooking and boil the kettle. Off grid power is surprisingly easy and cheap to do now.

[@cch33tah53]

No electronic worth buying from Japanese companies, they're generally more expensive and less sophisticated

[@paullynass4848]

Meanwhile EV battery home emulator just got easier kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHuteniqea11bqM

[@222INFINITY]

$20K for a 20 KWH pack, and people actually buy this shit? Just buy an EV and park it in your driveway it's cheaper, provides back up power + you can drive the thing.

[@effingsix3825]

I like that there are options to Tesla, solely from the fact I dislike Elon Musks’ personality.

[@MegaWilderness]

Best you do more exploration BYD and CATL make products too

[@nordic5490]

Tesla does not offer V2G in any of their cars. V2G would cannabilise Tesla power sales. It is all about the profit first.

[@MegaWilderness]

@@nordic5490 No the reason is the contactors that switch between AC and DC. Might be solved with software but couldn't be used to both take a charge and deliver DC at the same time. This due to a flaw in NACS design.

[@jasonbuksh2958]

Panasonic - no track record here, particularly with software - so NO - when investing this much in this, just go Tesla

[@MegaWilderness]

Idiot, at least Panasonic can make batteries and panels where Tesla can't and has to buy them

[@nordic5490]

Ahh, no. No fancy software is even required. Tesla power walls are massively overpriced. I can easily make one for 1/3 the price. I just made a 3.3kwhr LFP off grid battery for camping, mainly to run the induction cooking and boil the kettle. Off grid power is surprisingly easy and cheap to do now. LFP cannot be charge below 0°C. Sodium can. Anyone who lives in a cold climate should be buying the sodium batteries.

[@jasonbuksh2958]

@@nordic5490 it’ll have extensive firmware for feeding back to grid, virtual power plants and also ability to pull off renewables only etc - my experience is that get hardware is only relevant with great software … these other companies HAVENT got a clue - you only need to look at the EV market to see just how rubbish they are - even when they have a clear target to copy

[@coolandmellow]

Well isn't the insides of a Tesla battery Panasonic)))?😅

[@bydman5320]

Yes

[@starlord8973]

NEVS Emily GT: SAAB’s Secret EV With 600 Mile Range | Top Gear kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2K5cp6Og7mFZ7s