The Dragons of Cathay - Primarchs and Emperors with (Half) a Brain

[@pancreasnowork9939]

Check out fabletics.com/pancreas to join the VIP program and get the finest athleticwear ever! #fableticsambassador

[@boxfoxscoot1614]

0/10 no bad dragon jokes

[@Sandycheeks6699]

That pancreas do be working out

[@DaddyVeo1911]

Didn't realize you were a Slavaboo

[@Battlechicken12]

Collin fix your bed

[@brutalwave3800]

I think it’s a funny idea that the Silk Road is so profitable it just ascends into all of the multiverse

[@ZCid47]

I prefer the ivory name use in total war

[@Brainflayer]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[@sovietunion7643]

personally i prefer the bluntness of the historical references in fantasy. no trying to act like the necrons aren't just space egpytians, the tau aren't just an indian caste system with sci fi tech, space wolves aren't just vikings, i could go on. when the warhammer world is just not-earth but bigger the obvious historical references are cooler

[@tomtommerson6320]

You mean to tell me they got the dark web in warhammer? Fuck off

[@DinnerForkTongue]

​@@sovietunion7643 ... you just made me realize a good hypothesis for why the Necrons are slow. Ancient Egyptians were fairly weak on using horses and cavalry, so mobility was not their forte.

[@mickeymalone7577]

Who knew having a healthy mom figure would help make the dragons well adjusted.

[@johnd2058]

@DogseatDogs *Meow Ying

[@johnd2058]

@DogseatDogs A person of taste, I see. Myself, I find WHF somehow more dazzlingly diverse than WH40k already, because I'm a little bit normie.

[@kryvex4996]

@johnd2058 probably because about 80% of 40k lore is just space marines clapping chaos. It's funny how the setting is so big, yet it's really not at the same time

[@listener709]

Not naming any erdra I mean names

[@clockwork8968]

Eeeeeehhhhhh I think not getting kidnapped by demonic gods and being left to their own devises on a Death World for a few fucked up centuries and then being send out to commit war crimes on a galactic scale might have been more important factors here...

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

I get Li Dao. I'd honestly rather sit in a bastion peppering barbarians with arrows than be fighting tiger people, beastmen, Skaven, snake people that use blood magic, random Druchii incursions, and Sun Wukong's band of rabid apes that tear my men in half and eat their bones

[@fromeggman]

Nobody expects the Drucchi Inquisition.

[@captaintitus4637]

Li dao is fighting fantasy Vietnam while mao yin is playing tower defense simulator

[@brandonlyon730]

@DogseatDogs So basically Perturabo.

[@Pyre]

....I'm sorry reading OP's post gave me an overpowering desire to have and paint all of those as models.

[@captaintitus4637]

@@PyreThat’s fare

[@Chewywrinkles]

I swear this dude picks his sponsors by the free shit he wants and I respect it

[@anthonyramirez9925]

He somehow got a sextoy sponsorship for his fulgrim video, thats insanely impressive

[@ElCanalacoDeRaul]

@@anthonyramirez9925 I mean, makes sense

[@Le-cp9tr]

Note that of all the dragon children, we only know of one who probably fell to Chaos (Flamefang) and one who could be a vampire. So 1/4 kids being weird isn’t as much of an issue as 11 being chaos or expunged

[@marcialsebastianfragosoper1656]

​@DogseatDogsImrik*

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

@DogseatDogsalso he bangs every woman he sees

[@connorparfrey9191]

​@@marcialsebastianfragosoper1656 that's the sister miao ying

[@sev1120]

​@DogseatDogs How lewd! Why don't they engage in a sensible and chaste activity like pegging?

[@ivanivanovitchivanovsky7123]

I mean, Tbf Magnus was just bad luck, Mortarion as well. Angron was already rekt, Fulgrim got controlled by a demon sword, Horus got some weird stuff done to him in the warrior lodges. The only outright douche primarchs who happily rebelled without interference was Lorgar. Even Curze and Perty didn’t step out of line until Horus got corrupted.

[@InquisitorThomas]

I would kill for a Gotrek and Felix book set in Cathay heavily featuring Zhao Ming, the potential for fun character interaction is limitless, and you could call it something like Ogre Slayer.

[@JustSomeDude42]

No, no, knowing Felix and his Rizz it’d def be something like “Dragon Layer” so long as any of the daughters are present.

[@jakobtarrasericsson4295]

Absolutely, having a Gotrek and Fenix story in Grand Cathay, Lustria, Ulthuan (Altho I imagine Gotrek would burst a vein at that one) and even Naggaroth would been amazing.

[@sleepyllama3673]

@@JustSomeDude42 He doesnt even need that much rizz, reminder that ten percent of the Cathay population which is the most populous human nation is dragon blooded, aka the dragon children got it GOING

[@Lunarice98]

How would Felix's sword affect him? What with its huge boner for killing dragons

[@kanebekkattla3963]

@@sleepyllama3673 in all fairness most likely the vast majority aren't children of the dragons themselves but just have one of the dragons as a great-great-grandparent. as long as you have a dragon somewhere in your bloodline you're dragon-blooded.

[@Ottersanity]

To add credit to one of the missing children being the Tzeentch dragon, he does have a large cult in Cathay so it is possible.

[@ginkiba3]

Cathayan Dragons: "We hate the Elves for riding their dragons like subservient mounts." Also Cathayan Dragons: *Literally breeds with humans*

[@dustinnabil798]

And horse

[@jonathanathor117]

I mean if Donkey can bang a dragon then a man or a woman can also bang a dragon.

[@vincelycaner4259]

​@@dustinnabil798 One night a drunked & stoned Zhao Ming pass by the stables and think 🤔"If there's a hole, there's a goal".........

[@dustinnabil798]

@@vincelycaner4259 Zaush Ming is pretty freaky ngl

[@anna-flora999]

Which is ironically kinda Roman of them. Their problem isn't sleeping with humans, it's being a bottom while doing so

[@haylongwang3002]

Worth to mention that there is actualy a pretty big chance that all the dragon siblings survived the end times as the lore states that the Dragon emperor saved his people by sailing them to a realm safe from chaos.

[@jaceclassay4589]

I like to believe that but I have to say the only one that would be "on screen dead" is Miao Ying (despite how much I like her) the basion falls and I don't see it falling without her dying sadly. As for the Big D saving his people, the only way I could see them in AoS is chilling with Maliketh in his relm or sends its so close to the relm of light, Maliketh is the cerburus of a hidden relm between the light and shadow (ying yang). While Maliketh is now a god the only this as strong or stronger are creatures that Sigmar sent Grimnir and Gorkamorak to deal with. Big D and Moon emperorist combine into a world dragon become the land between realm, they make a deal with Maliketh that they will help with his new godly power and even giving him blessing like phoenix kings of old in return that he guards them. The surving Dragon children become gods like the moon spirit Teclis hang out with. Yaio Ming and Shiyama are the death gods that protect them. Maybe they showed Sigmar how to steal a soles from Nagash. And it works well with Tzech interest in the realm of shadow, trying to find the people that escaped him.

[@AmariFukui]

This is just more proof the Dragon Emperor is better than Big E

[@S3Cs4uN8]

@@AmariFukui Well it's not exactly a high bar to pass.

[@unifieddynasty]

For the sake of Cathay in AOS to further expand GW into Asia, this is true. 😂

[@Kyla-Stormhazard]

I like the idea of it being a case of Yin Yin finally succeeding at her damn job. XD

[@ImperatorZor]

A Corvee is a common practice in many preindustiral societies. In short it means paying taxes in labour. Peasants were required to spend a fortnight or so every year doing manual labour for their lord/king/whatever, getting fed along the way, though it was usually possible to pay in cash to hire someone to stand in for you as an alternative. Corvee labourers dug the irrigation systems of Mesopotamia, built castles in medieval europe and the roads and canals in Imperial China.

[@Jfk2Mr]

*it is usually possible to pay in cash or make your farmhand (be it family or not) to do that job instead of you

[@iannordin5250]

That's also how the pyramids got built as well. There's a strong case that Egypt engaged in so many large civil/ceremonial projects simply because when you have a large agricultural population who are out of work because the 1 water source routinely floods everything, bussing them over to eat and drink and build shit during that off time where they have no food and nothing to do at home is how you keep things together.

[@SpookyScarySkeletor]

thanks for sharing zor

[@franzsanders9573]

Neat, thank you for sharing!

[@yaelz6043]

​@@iannordin5250it also have them pride and skills. Far more than just keeping things together.

[@allisdust5717]

My head cannon is that the reason a meteor was dropped on the ogres was because they killed one of the Cathay dragons

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

Yeah I’m surprised he never mentioned their Great War with the Ogres and how the emperor was the only being who could stop them by shooting a meteor straight through the planet killing 70% of all Ogres in the process

[@cegesh1459]

It's not though.

[@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593]

​@@seanmcloughlin5983said meteor was also the great maw itself

[@RealCodreX]

Not only yours.

[@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593]

I honestly doubt that IMO if it was for that they would have went full-on genocide and straight up hunted the ogres to extinction

[@drefranks691]

Can’t believe Colin likes space marines so much he is bringing primarchs to fantasy. My goat.

[@MrDj232]

Nothing makes me think athletic wear like a diabetic talking about tabletop games.

[@MsJohnny1927]

Marketed towards youtubers who play warhammer. Its like the company wants to fail

[@rpgeoffrey]

They are just diamond handed investors in our fitness( fitness = wearing aspirational clothes whilst never actually exercising)

[@Smorccc]

Wdym? Gamers and tabletop players are the MOST sweaty people. The combination of the PC heat, obesity and mouth breathing means they (we) overheat quickly and thus need athletic wear xD

[@romainthevenon7520]

Have you heard about our Lord and Saviour Henry Cavill

[@DinnerForkTongue]

What you say is funny to me, because exercising at home made me a better thinker, especially at tabletop gaming. Healthy body, healthy mind, I guess.

[@jimmynicol7942]

It's a shame GW is so insistent on keeping the Old World and AoS brands so separate, cause Cathay surviving into the Mortal Realms as a direct result of the Dragon Emperor and Moon Empresses secret schemes makes perfect sense. Instead I imagine we'll get a half baked inclusion in Old World at most.

[@lastspartan9393]

We could only wish

[@franzsanders9573]

Ditto. It’s a massive shame GW won’t let us have badass dragon wizards in AoS. I honestly don’t think it even has to be that much - Just maybe add some Chinese dragon or Terracotta Sentinel models to the Stormcast or Cities model lines (representing either new dragon children or the resurgence of Cathayan alchemy) and include some lore blurbs stating how the Dragon Emperor & Moon Empress now live in Azyr as part of Sigmar’s Grand Pantheon of Order.

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Since we don't know what the Old World is doing for Cathay & Kislev I am supporting the idea of them being in AoS in a Kragnos like situation for Order though for Cities & another Grand Alliance Order army that the Dragon Child connects to the most. In the previous End Time story the Dragon Emperor evacuated Cathay survivors so could use something like this where he sacrificed himself to allow them to escape, maybe some magic got them to Mannslieb/Yueyin the moon not blown up & where there mother is from where they then ride out the storm and one day reach the Mortal Realms during the Age of Myth. During it they didn't join Sigmar's pantheon for not wanting to get into the God talk but became close allies and helped fight off the God-Beast and make their own mini Empires each taking on Emperor or Empress. Then the Age of Chaos happen and all communication got lost until present day when Dawnbringer Crusades run into what's left of their empires and have agreed to honour the pacts of old and help them, at least in the Realms they call home. Miao Ying = The Dragon Empress of Ghyran, really her personality war like Alarielle would work well together. Zhao Ming = The Dragon Emperor of Chamon, setting up good relations for his Empire with as many Sky-ports for Trade feels so right. Yuan Bo = The Dragon Emperor of Hysh located on either Aurathrai or Oultrai, being Tyrionic nation maybe he starts to work more for Tyrion and play into a nostalgic feel for days he can't remember. Li Dao = The Dragon Emperor of Aqshy really I see him recreating his relation with the Monkey King with Fire Lodges where both help and Yell at each other. Yin-Yin = The Dragon Empress of Ghur with how really Competitive is Ghur works to this with working with Idoneth Deepkin, having her city forces join in on their raids. Each Dragon gets its own Model and maybe GW makes Sprues for Free Guild troops. Their Cities would all use the same Sprues as I am thinking a little realistic but positive where it can capture some version of Chinese/Eastern Asian feel, just each City goes with an appropriate colour scheme.

[@Edithae]

​@DarkApostleNoek Kislev was planned to be the flagship Faction for Old World but rumour is they've been shelved indefinitely.

[@DarkApostleNoek]

@Edithae Ya was just mainly thinking of Cathay since that was the topic. The 2 are a little more on the different side since Kislev had an army in WFB I believe. I guess for Cathay if in Old World this will be there first models. Although if really it is just the Dragons getting AoS models it could be a Daemon Primarch situation with HH & 40K as Fulgrim should be getting a 40K plastic and rumours of Angron getting a Daemon HH resin model. There army in AoS is cities just special free guild sprues.

[@zephyrus2569]

Tl;dr on the dragon family dynamic: Miao Ying is the older sister who's smart and talented, but arrogant, always rubbing it into her siblings' faces that she's better than they are and Mom and Dad like her best. Zhao Ming is the younger brother, huge dudebro, likes to party, always coming up with wild ideas and not listening when his parents or siblings try to tell him how dangerous they are. Yuan Bo is the quiet, introverted middle brother who tries to keep things smoothed over as much as possible, but still has enough intelligence that Miao Ying will take it when gives her a well-deserved putdown once in a while. Li Dao is the youngest brother with massive anger issues; he isn't around much because he's always out picking fights. Yin Yin is the youngest sister, a "girlfailure" like Panc said. She's constantly trying to surpass her older siblings (Miao Ying in particular) but has none of their talent, and none of the patience to develop it or self-awareness to realize it, so she just constantly screws up and has to get bailed out.

[@alecseusalec3418]

Miao isn't Moon Empress favorite,it's Zhao Ming.

[@ncq7226]

Yin Yin is just Moon Moon the Dragon

[@AAZ-yu5ss]

Yin Yin is basically Cirno if she were a powerful Dragon instead of a Fairy.

[@nightelf2487]

And shen zoo is that younger long lost sister that everyone loves but have no clue where she is.

[@gmsnowy7344]

16:05 "Existing entirely because him and Gelt in the Immortal Empires trailer were seen together blowing a Skaven Army-" You said he fucks hard, but damn. Didn't expect that.

[@jannovy7229]

So you are the guy who keeps ordering Skaven hentai?

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@jannovy7229 Based, as long as there aren't any _inaccurate_ females.

[@soldiersPL]

And ofc, then 5.1 came out and now we have actual bromance questline if you play Gelt

[@smergthedargon8974]

@@jannovy7229 As long as it's just male Skaven, sounds good me to.

[@diamondhamster4320]

This proves that if Primarchs had both loving and caring father and mother, they would not fall to Chaos so easily like that. Robotman Guilliesuiteman is a prime example what having a loving foster father and mother can do.

[@Jedishill680]

Hence why Rowboat girlyman and his space marines are reliable and effective

[@anthonyramirez9925]

Angron had neither

[@daltondaily1540]

I could see Yin-Yin being potentially a very interesting character if they expand upon her lore. We don't know who the youngest of the children is, maybe it's her? The Eastern Provinces are likely the safest outside the Central, and Yin-Yin probably doesn't actually get many threats/challenges. The occasional Drucharri Raid, overseeing trade with the High Elves, sounds pretty boring and not very "glorious". You could probably tell an interesting story of the family baby trying to prove herself and just failing constantly.

[@ozgurruh2535]

I would love to see that lol

[@Kyla-Stormhazard]

I agree. Could do a lot of fun stories with her. Hell, she wouldn't even have to be the protagonist. You could always do characters who work for her.

[@BossEvasion]

I feel like whenever the dragon family has a gathering and instantly starts fighting, Mom or Dad say that their fighting is making Shen Zoo cry and they immediately stop. And that she’s the reason why Miao Ying is willing to use Dragon Blooded generals since I would assume Shen Zoo would probably have a very lucky husband and Miao wouldn’t turn down bonding with her nieces and nephews as they defend the Great Bastion.

[@UGNAvalon]

Plot twist: During the End Times, Tzeentchian scheming caused the tense relationships between the Dragon Siblings to boil over so badly that they had their own Horus Heresy shortly before swallowed up by the Vermintide. A plot twist so strong in its character assassination that it’d fit right in with the rest of the End Times. ;D

[@capadociaash8003]

That’s an awful stupid idea, it would fit in perfectly

[@onlycorndog6322]

If we take Total War Warhammer 3 as canon there's actually reason to believe the Cathayan Dragons are older than the non-chaos gods (Ursun, Tal, Sigmar, etc). In the Cathay Realm of Chaos campaign intro cinematic Miao Ying says she couldn't possibly care any less about the so-called 'gods'. A quote... "I am Miao Ying the Storm Dragon, older than the gods themselves." She then goes on to say that finding her lost sister Shen-Zoo is WAAAAY more important than saving Ursun from Be'lakor. in that same cinematic Zhao Ming says that... "There is mistrust between dragons and gods" So there's DEFINITELY some very interesting drama that went down between the Dragon Emperor and his children and the gods that we haven't learned about. Yuan Bo seems to think that his family is older even than the Chaos Gods (or, at least, that they predate mortal worship of the Chaos Gods). A quote... "Those in other nations may deny it, but all mortals desire control. To be controlled, that is. Why else would they conjure those Northern Gods that obsess over dominating the very creatures that brought them into being?" - Yuan Bo

[@GeneralKong]

Dragons are one of the original inhabitants of the world before the Old Ones came and changed its orbit, and all gods are in one way or another Warp/Belief based, so at least as a species, the Dragons are older than the Gods

[@JustSomeDude42]

This is pretty hubristic as much of the lore on the Chaos Gods is that they’re older than dirt, with the Old Ones coming to the Old World specifically because it had potential to fight Chaos. So while the existence of Chaos on the Old War is relatively new to beings like Star Dragons and at least the Dragon Emperor and Moon Empress, there’s good potential the Gods of Chaos might be older than the reality the Old World exists in.

[@Hatypus]

The dragons in general have already been said to be as old as/older than the gods. Draugnir, the Father of Dragons according to the Elves, was a welcome peer in Asuryan's court, before he was slain by Anath Raema. And prior to his death he did some stuff with Vaul and Loec too.

[@MadisonRamanamabangbang]

That's not speculation, they are super specifically said to have been on the planet before the old ones, you sont have to extrapolate

[@zincgoblin7538]

@@GeneralKong While it isn't the same, the dragons of warhammer fantasy give me the same vibe as the dragons of dark souls. Before everything, before things 'existed', there was just dragons. They lived. And then after them came life, change, and the Old ones with all of their problems.

[@residentfacehead3465]

Not only Does Zhao hear voices, theres evidence he hears the voice of THE GREAT MAW ITSELF. THE WAY OGRES DO. Also if we are talking primarch equivilents, Zhao is Vulcan nearly perfect, except he is Vulcan as seen in What If the Emperor had a Text to Speech device.

[@alexscholz3438]

"I WANT TO PET DIS CREATCHA." - Zhao Ming, probably, seeing a rat with a nuke

[@paulovinasrocha6166]

​@@alexscholz3438zhao, dont pet that merry suiside bomber

[@alexandrejose8362]

​@@paulovinasrocha6166IT WULD BE JUST LIL' BOPPIE ON ITZ NOGGIN'

[@paulovinasrocha6166]

@@alexandrejose8362 stop wanting

[@khylerbane4523]

I want to boop the snoot!

[@bbutler3230]

personally i like too imagine that the Celestial Dragon's plans are so convoluted that he thought only Huan Bao would grasp them in the slightest. like just a real "Ruth Goldberg Machine" of a plan laying out exact placement of Cathayan citizens.

[@brandonlyon730]

That or has him buying more paint and Terracotta Sentinel models.

[@burningbronze7555]

@@brandonlyon730 no that is just a part of the above plan

[@marcog.verbruggen674]

Rube* Goldberg Machine. I like this headcanon lol

[@LollipopKnight2]

The Dragon Emperor, starting to feel divine energy from furtive cultist prayers: "This power... it's like that of a god. *Beneath me.*"

[@mariojorge68]

Total War made it kinda canon that Gelt and Zhao Ming have a bromance thanks to the repositioning of Gelt and his various events about building a great relationship.

[@jefrosiers8880]

25:33 apparently li dao is spreading anti-monkey king propaganda throughout Cathay, trying to say he is a chaos creature, he really dislikes him

[@ChristianEphraimson]

What horrible propaganda😢 (We need a Monkey king dlc!!!)

[@jefrosiers8880]

@@ChristianEphraimson aye we do

[@MoaRider]

I hope the popularity of Cathay tells Creative Assembly that people are into the idea of exotic fantasy factions based on less represented cultures. The idea of fantasy versions of India, Indochina and Japan being added to Total War Warhammer sounds incredible. Just the idea of humans fighting alongside mythical creatures of Japanese/Indian/South East Asian folklore would be so badass that it would be pretty sad if they didn't add them. Just imagine it. A frontline of Ashigaru spearmen and Samurai against monstrous Naga and their enslaved human meatshields only for shapeshifting Kitsune to emerge from stealth and flanking them. Come on CA, its like you don't even want my money.

[@michaelsantamaria5295]

they kind of already did this with the lumineth as they have fox spirits, cloud riding mages and Elven samurai swordsmen it just mix with the classic elven greek flavor the warhammer elves are known for

[@firetarrasque4667]

It’s a shame that Warhammer Fantasy 2nd got axed right after they finished covering the “primary” regions of the world. They were one of the best sources of information on Kislev prior to TWW3, and it would have been nice to have seen them keep going.

[@MrSkabrus]

​@@PoorManatee6197where did you get that?

[@ksanbahlyngwa1998]

What about Araby? 😢

[@Astroga159]

I remember a fan comic about Miao Ying and Minaithnir meeting each other: Miao: "So you allow the elves to ride you?" Min: "It's more of a partnership" Miao: "I can't believe you lower yourselves to permit lower races to use you as mounts" (insert snickering) Min: "At least we don't MATE with them!" (insert embarrassed Miao blushing and hiding her face)

[@fareastslav]

Miao doesn’t fuck so she wouldn’t blush

[@fredarooni21]

Daaaaamn!

[@fareastslav]

Miao probably doesn’t sex, so she wouldn’t blush

[@sovietunion7643]

i really hope you meant meeting eachother

[@paleface171]

@@fareastslav I just remembered a very "numbery/cursed" mod that lazyicarus made a long time ago, involving the bastion dragon. One that involves her being corrupted by slannesh and giving her a mechanic that can allow her to "birth" daemonettes. It also changes her look more "adult only". Also made one for the tzarrina only with tzeentch and slannesh.

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

I like to think Miao Ying was the last defender of the great bastion and with its destruction she went with it. I think that’s way cooler and more respectful to her character than being shot out of the sky or getting waaaaaghed by Grimgor

[@MadHermit95]

Yuan Bo hit the perfect griddy but no one was there to record it. Zhao Ming tried but laugh it off. Yin Yin hit a griddy so bad that she got Fortnite banned in Cathay.

[@0sm1um76]

Did I just get brain rot reading this?

[@TheMTSilver]

I'm glad I'm out of touch enough to not know what a "griddy" is.

[@Ragnarra]

@@TheMTSilveryou too?

[@axios4702]

The longma your flying cavalry rides in cathay are dragon blooded horses. Either Zhao Ming or Yin Yin have a bit of Bretonnian in them. Or maybe the forgotten dragon was forgotten because he or she wouldn't stop riding their horses. Like seriously that's a lot of horses.

[@pingudapotato]

That put a picture i dont want in my mind

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Felix: Walks into Cathay Also Felix: *!!!DOOM MUSIC INTENSIFIES!!!*

[@Lunarice98]

His sword is just like "I have the urge to purge"

[@TheSimon2996]

Felix meeting miao ying would be really confusing for him xD

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

@@TheSimon2996 He's learned by now that if she's hot she's a thot, I mean theres Ulrika, the Countess. That one mage that was semi apprentice to max, he would probably just distrust Miao on sight regardless of having the sword or not.

[@callumn2111]

​@@TheSimon2996 Felix: Must stab with sword! Gotrek: *knowing Felix* Which "sword" Manling? Felix: Yes!

[@GimGam_Glitzdakka]

"The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been."

[@patrickiamonfire965]

All I learn from this is that the Skaven is the biggest threat of all. Constantly stopping Nagash and possibly destroyed Cathay and actually got what they wanted.

[@haylongwang3002]

Well this is very ild news considering that it was the Skaven who actualy hard carried the end times, which was bs writting but still canon none tye less.

[@brandonlyon730]

Didn't the Skaven allied with order one time when Nagash was doing one of his world domination schemes?

[@horsenuggets1018]

@@brandonlyon730and had Grey Seers sacrifice themselves to magically protect Alcadizzar so that he could kill Nagash too

[@razorflossrazor2937]

Yes. It's very much stated that the only reason they hadn't conquered the world yet was because of how much in fighting and betraying each other they do. And despite the horrible writing of end times it got the threat of a united skaven empire very right.

[@Eisenwulf666]

I think that the food mechanic in total war 3 is a great representation on what is the main reason Skaven didn't conquer the world already. There are too many of them, even more than the orcs, while the resources are limited. The fact they sabotage and kill themselves costantly is the result of such limited resources. What most skaven eat is actually other skaven. That's why betrayal and intimidation is so prevalent, they are bred and selected for it. The moment they unite or even concentrate a part of their species on a single effort, they can do basically anything. Add to that the fact they can use warpstone as the ultimate performance enhancer, they are incredibly OP.

[@khylerbane4523]

I want a God of War 4 style Gotrek and Felix game where we start in Naggarond and free Shen Zoo and have to wander the Warhammer World to get her back to Cathay. As well as get a magic neck collar removed out on by Rakarth because it keeps her in human form and prevents her from using her powers. The first is set in Naggarond, Lustria, Amazon’s home, Vampire Coast, the Great Ocean, and Ulthwan. Fighting Dark Elves, Lizardmen, undead, greenskins, and beastmen. The Second in the realm of the Tomb Kings, Araby, Brettiona, border princes. Fighting Dark Elves, Chaos Dwarfs, Tomb Kings, Araby, vampires, and Skaven. And the final is in the Empire, Dwarf Holds, Kislev, Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs in the Mountains of Mourn, Worlds Edge Mountains, and finally Cathay. Fighting Chaos, Skaven, undead, ogres, greenskins, chaos dwarfs, and beastmen. Meeting a who’s who of Warhammer characters from the major; like Karl Franz, Dragon Emperor, Teclis, Finabar, Morathi, Rakarth, Thorgrim, Settra, Arkan, Louen, and Sultan of Araby, to the minor; like Rakarth, Zhatan the black, Luthor Harkon, Imrik, the Amazon Queen, Valten, Green Knight, and Grimgor. Now that I think of it, *Why* wasn’t this a book? A Gotrek and Felix or stand alone story? It would have made a great series.

[@garretthochmuth4522]

Barring that, a Shadow of Mordor/War esk game where we are a Chaos warband or Doom game as Settra, Naki the wanderer, Wulfrik , Nekaph Hereld of Settra, Teclis, Grombrindol, Valten, Grimgor, Ahzag, Luthor Harkon, Reponse Harry the Hammer etc. would suffice. The Warband game could start in either Norsca or the Empire and you build up your power until you become too big to keep ignore and the canon characters come in to deal with you. And the end of the final boss fight with Archaon, Crom, and/or Tamurkhan in the first or second ends with a RE4 quick time event that if you fail you don’t die… you serve them. Abs the sequel is serving them and get sent to the Old World to weaken it but you get a chance to usurp them. But if you win, *you* take over their final boss’s armies. Eventually becoming the new Everchosen. With the final game with you either serving in Storm of Chaos or being the Everchosen in the Endtimes itself. Even having the Nemesis system from those games. Or a similar game but with the Dark elves, Orks, Ogres, Skaven, Vampires, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarfs, Vampire Coast, etc. The Doom esk game is very self explanatory, so I won’t go into it. Or a Assassins Creed Black Flag with the Vampire Coast that would be awesome.

[@marcog.verbruggen674]

I mean, ever since Thrones of Decay, the Gelt-Zhao bromance is actually supported in game. Gelt moved over to Cathay after Elspeth showed up to take Solland off his hands and there's a series of special dilemma events about Gelt helping Zhao out with the Burning Wind Nomads and being bros. You can also choose to be extremely antagonistic, but I have yet to see anyone going down that path willingly lol

[@mikeyfisher4256]

In Yin Yins mind, her invasion succeeded and she hit the griddy and everyone clapped

[@randlebrowne2048]

What the Hell is "griddy"?

[@sadpotatohours4846]

id love to see yin yin the girl failure she is because she gives off so much star scream energy, maybe something fun like a underdark traverse system but across oceans could be interesting, ive no idea, but i love the concept of warhammer fantasy star scream

[@SilverScarletSpider]

i need a warhammer 3 starscream mod now 😂

[@DeranRoute-vu5jy]

I’m still waiting for the day he does Vlad Von Carstein.

[@Arbiterjim]

To be fair, Mannfred is the worst von Carstein and he did one for him. Vlad is a saint by comparison

[@Botar48]

@@Arbiterjim Back in the day Mannfred and Vlad were quite similar actually. Like yeah Vlad still died because of Mannfred and his silly failed plots are the reason Vampires didn't win and he ended up stuck in bottom of a swamp but Mannfred was also a pragmatic ruler. Konrad's insanity made Sylvanians miss even the von Draks but under Vlad and Mannfred people were content. Then in end times Manny had to go full manchild and doom everything.

[@EmperorTyrael]

I'm still waiting for him to do the Eldar Harlequins.

[@saltytattie833]

Yin Yin sounds so goofy I kinda love it. Like Team Rocket if they commanded a navy of pokemon.

[@ZombieJaeger]

The idea of the three missing siblings being put in to one dragon body is horrific there is a possibility they were still knowing what they were doing. They may have even let archaon kill them to put them out of there misery

[@kerry6813]

You see, Miao Ying could step on me an I would always say "Harder" but if the Emperor of Man came within several postal codes of me I would fall to chaos harder than Horus.

[@fareastslav]

Pathetic display

[@InquisitorThomas]

I’m pretty sure it’s just flat out confirmed that Mama Moon Empress is an alien shapeshifter.

[@MadisonRamanamabangbang]

Nope, deconfirmed in lore material released during lead up to warhammer 3's release

[@faroukshaaban1140]

I honestly can’t wait for Cathay to get models in TOW. Here’s hoping Miao Ying and Zhao Ming awesome models.

[@TopazTiger2000]

Yeah, mega X to doubt…

[@ianbyrne465]

I feel like Yuan Bo also shares alot of similarity with Jagathai Khan. Both are incredibly competent, but content to let themselves sit back and seem less. They don’t brag, they just let others underestimate them until it’s too late

[@NicolasFister]

"Luthor Harkon is the greatest admiral to ever exist" ( Looks at Count Noctilus ..)

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

I don't see that prissy city boy Noctilus with the title of Arch Commodore

[@NicolasFister]

@bruuuuuuuuhhhh A self granted title is a self granted title is a self granted title is a self granted title is a self-

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

@@NicolasFister shut up bozo Queen Bess cannon

[@Randerson2409]

@@NicolasFister It may be self-granted, but can you think of a better term for the guy who managed to destroy the entirety of the Tomb Kings' Navy, and still had well over 100 ships under his command after that battle

[@captaincool6785]

We all know Cylostria direfin is the best admiral

[@khylerbane4523]

I’m still waiting for any of these guys to come back in AoS. Also, one may be a Chaos dragon, and another may be a vampire… WHY is there NOTHING else on these two? Now thanks to pancreas, the mental image of Shen Zoo having a Jamaican accent, giving literal spine shattering hugs, and urge to "boot the snoot" at every opportunity.

[@michaelsantamaria5295]

the last Dragon is supposedly the shadow dragon (all the other sibling are master of one wind of magic) so take that as you will

[@toniltadara9384]

I doubt it would come to AoS. AoS is not really going the obvious "this culture + country + warhammer" but a faction that is inspired by some real life things. Maybe in Old World, it would get released someday.

[@garretthochmuth4522]

I like to think they were intentionally forgotten about because of both what happened was they betrayed or fell to evil and what it would mean if the world found out. One fell to Chaos and became a humanoid dragon daemon hybrid. He only fell because A) he tried to find and save Shen Zoo but eventually broke. Feeling abandoned by his people and family he now wants revenge and seeks to destroy them and Cathay. Though he believes he still has his free will and his his own master, to the point of hating Archaon, Belakor etc. A fantasy Chaos is more than happy to let him keep believing. And they other is a vampire one the level of Vlad and Neferata. Simply because would be vampire wanted power and turned to the devil via the immortality elixir of Nagash to get it. Though like Nagash he doesn’t “make pacts with others because then he wouldn’t be the one in charge.” Though the trade off is the dragon is now little more than an emaciated and partly decaying corpse in human form and a giant skeletal mummy like creature in dragon form. Nagash naturally doesn’t like him, though respects is power and ambition. When Nagash retuned as a god, he put the skeleton down because he would bend the knee by force. The reason they were made forgotten were because one; it’s embarrassing the “incorruptible” dragon children fell and two; like with the Chaos Dwarfs, Cathay would loose moral high ground over every one else and would be force to accept they are just like everyone else. Which is something the Emperor himself would rather suffer Ursins the fate Total War than admit too.

[@garretthochmuth4522]

And like Emps, they return as Gods, much to their chagrin.

[@samueltitone5683]

@@toniltadara9384They could easily give the CoS more Cathay inspired units.

[@goldjaw]

Dragons existed before the Great Catastrophe, that’s an understatement. Dragons were here before the OLD ONES. Remember Kroak pushing the planet closer to the sun to warm it up? Dragons were mostly killed off by the environment change. They were there when the gods of the Lizardmen were nothing but upstart invaders.

[@MrReaverable]

All the new cathay lore just makes me wish we had them on the tabletop. They're honestly my favorite faction in Total War Warhammer and the single faction that made me go through the maelstrom campaign. Here's to hoping one day we will get some miniatures.

[@MrClone985]

I love how everytime he beats the grand emperor of mankind with some speech and make he looks like joke of character.

[@randomelite4562]

He kinda is tbh

[@magicalgirl1296]

Honestly I just think the idea of a half-dragon demigod lady who kills demons with lightning Kung-Fu is badass and for that reason I have a lot of affection for Miao Ying.

[@franzsanders9573]

So, my take on the Dragon Children when compared to the Primarchs goes like this: Miao Ying = Rogal Dorn and the badassery/parental favoritism of Sanguinius Zhao Ming = An uncorrupted Magnus the Red, the inventive mind of Ferrus Manus and either the friendly nature of Sanguinius or the considerate nature of an uncorrupted Angron Yuan Bo = Roboute Guilliman and Leman Russ Shi Yama = An uncorrupted Mortarion thanks to the similar death symbolism Shen Zoo = Vulkan Li Dao = An uncorrupted -Angron- Perturabo since he’s mentioned to be near-perpetually grumpy and feels like he doesn’t get the respect he deserves Yin Yin = Ferrus Manus and an uncorrupted Perturabo, for being really lame Yin Xiao Long = Maybe Konrad Curze since they fell to Chaos & were killed by a mortal The unknown Dragon Children = The missing Primarchs EDIT: Edited based on some good advice.

[@kazaddum2448]

You make Li Dao sound like Perturabo. Uncorrupted Angron would be either the broest of bros (because no nails to ruin his empathic powers) or "MAIM!KILL! BURN! I WANT TO FUCKING DIE IN BATTLE" (because he has the nails) Angron was not "grumpy", he was in inhuman pain and depression at once whenever he wasn't killing. Thanks to the nails, which replaced much of his brain.

[@franzsanders9573]

@@kazaddum2448 Hmm, yeah, I can definitely see that.

[@DeusExAngelo]

I can feel Imrik listening in and furiously taking notes for his "diplomatic" visits.

[@callumn2111]

The Dragon siblings taking a test. Miao Ying and Yuan Bo - *ace the test* Li Dao - *mad he just got lower than Miao Ying* Zhao Ming - *giggling that he got 69 out of 100* Yin Yin - "F means fantastic, right?"

[@nicovelardita8619]

Yuan Bo would have got a better number than Miao Ying, but he would have said to everyone she got the most points

[@n0n4me77]

I don't remember where I heard this, but aparently it's The Great Maw whispering to Zhao Ming.

[@heirwolf6929]

The best argument for including the not so admirable admiral would be that we get a glimpse of Nippon, The lost islands of Elithis or even fabled Lumbria.

[@tomwarren5580]

I'm genuinely sad that we haven't gotten a Gotrek and Felix story in Cathay now that it's actually got lore. Mostly because I think it would be hilarious for there to be a story where Felix has to deal with being irrationally angry with all these dragons and dragon blooded nobles because his sword wants him to murder all dragons

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

I didn’t think there would be a faction that would approach my level of interest for the Lizardmen. Then Cathay happened. Some of the lore stated in this vid is already somehow outdated too lol. Thank you Old World.

[@plasticbag4102]

just me patiently waiting for the exodites, gotta love those space amish. (and never thought of them as primarchs but thats pretty cool)

[@Literature-Ronin]

Interesting, I didn't think you'd cover the Dragon Fam, but I'm glad you did as Cathay has quickly become my favorite TWW3 faction, with all things considered in Immortal Empires. Oof on the scathing rebuke of Yin Yin, as I like her a lot, and the idea of Cathay branching out somehow, getting involved in a 'Grand Order Alliance' scenario, rather than just always sitting at home in their own borders, but still funny across the board. Though the funniest parts are definitely the criticisms of Big E, you're pretty spot on with that overall. Great and funny takes here

[@ahkilleuskosmos6836]

On the topic of the Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress caring about their kids, in Total Warhammer III there’s actually a event that occurs if you play Cathay where you are met with a pair of cats that HEAVILY implied to be the Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress checking up on you incognito, and depending on how you interact with them you receive buffs and debuffs.

[@Auvinius]

What I am most fascinated about and excited to hear more from CA/GW are the shugengan lords of Cathay. I would imagine that they would be arrayed into different "Noble Houses" based on which of the dragon children originated their bloodline, and that these different Houses would have distinct characteristics and family mottos based on their dragon ancestor. There would likely also be different kinds of rivalries between the different shugengan bloodlines, akin to vampiric bloodlines; Iron Dragon's kids would quarrel with Jade Dragon's kids and so forth. Sadly, I imagine that we Cathay fanboys have to wait at least until Cathay's army book is released, or more likely, till the roleplay/novel side catches up.

[@franzsanders9573]

Great video, man! Also, here’s hoping that the Dragon Emperor & Moon Empress eventually show up in AoS - They might’ve sailed into a Realmgate or something (let us have badass dragon wizards in AoS, GW!).

[@ChristianEphraimson]

That'd be awesome! Thus it won't happen because we're talking about GW

[@ChristianEphraimson]

@DogseatDogs it could be a good sign for lore fans.

[@franzsanders9573]

@@ChristianEphraimson Relatedly, GW finally released a -timeline- calendar for AoS! …It’s a crappy one that contradicts a lot of prior events (claiming the Age of Sigmar has only been going on for about 133 years when multiple Cities of Sigmar have been stated to be centuries old even after the Realmgate Wars), but at least the intention of helping give more concrete details to AoS’s setting was solid. EDIT: Word choice.

[@chrisroberts7000]

The bureaucrat being like Comstar seems pretty spot-on. An alternate would be the mentats from Dune, this has the bonus of tying in with Master of assassins.

[@Knight1029]

Would have loved some theorizing on what happened to the Dragon Emperor and Emperess after the end times. My theory is that their still alive. I just don't believe they would die in the end times.

[@Stolskai]

As a dedicated Iron Warrior fan, that bit about Perturabo both made me laugh and killed a piece of me.

[@avpman12]

I imagine Yin-Yin being the last child of the Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress: she “act’s up” to get attention from mom and dad but most of the time does her duties well enough that the people of Cathay like her. She probably attracts a lot Cathayan’s that are very free spirited.

[@willnorman-bargo]

I like to think the Dragon Family somehow made it into the AOS timeline.

[@olegoleg258]

Huh. Seems as if i have binge watched pancreas no work's videos so much that I'm even getting new ones recommended. Oh well, i ain't complaining

[@lionheart1013]

Heres to hopeing the Monkey king either becomes a Legendary Hero or Legendary Lord

[@saltytattie833]

Ying/Lidao got that Dorn/Perturabo dynamic going on.

[@samueldodge8077]

We need more lore on these guys. Equating them to big E and the primarchs is on point. I want to know Yuan Bo's plans, I want to see Mao Ying soften up, I want to see Xio Ming have a character arc, I want to see Li Dao become buds with the Monkey king. I want all the dragon siblings in total Warhammer.

[@redeye3869]

27:47 Apparently one of the Siege of Terra books actually mentions a part of the Imperial Palace with 21 unique suites and a beautiful garden. Showing that after the Great Crusade was over the Emperor planned to retire with his sons and spend their days living together. Can’t confirm since I haven’t read it, but it’s interesting and shows that Emps wasn’t gonna do a Thunder Warriors with his sons.

[@GamingGlatorius]

Half a brain? By the sound of it that half of a brain is owned by Yuan Bo.

[@CantoniaCustoms]

They'd still probably manage to beat the 40k imperium through sheer wit alone.

[@rump438]

I’ve just realized that this channel is essentially the Star Trek Vs Star Wars debate but for the same franchise. One has better story and one just has cooler shit.

[@aarovit4257]

It’s all fun and games until you look inside your buddies mod folder for TWW3 and see the Soboro Slannesh Miao Ying skin

[@ishmeilmathis2218]

Hell to diss the emperor further even Angron had the decency to treat his sons like actual sons when he was pretty much dying to the nails no excuses

[@hunter5559]

One thing worth noting is that someone made a Yin-Yin mod for Total War Warhammer War 3: War Edition, giving her unique units and campaign mechanics, I believe in the mod she does start in Lustria

[@Archris17]

Li Dao has more Vegeta energy than Freeza tbh. Early Vegeta to be specific where he'll work with Sun Wukong and they're pretty chill with one another at times, but their biggest point of bonding is the good old "No-one is allowed to kill you until _I do!"_ Best frienemies kinda style.

[@JJJJJJJJJAAAAAA]

27:10 yeah there’s no naval battles but there are still naval factions. 4 legendary lords as you know. Such a DLC would probably include cathayan “lothern seaguard” knockoffs and some jade sea serpents wriggling around

[@SilverScarletSpider]

the one thing i can’t over is everything says that there are only 9 dragon siblings, but technically there have always been 10 because the oldest sister was killed before any of her other 9 siblings were born. Like Hela in Thor Ragnorok

[@williamhaber7523]

I actually would like a Yin Yin DLC. She could start just about anywhere, which is cool, and I imagine her personality as either Zuko or Azula but either way I’m here for it

[@MadisonRamanamabangbang]

The lore released during Warhammer 3's release explicitly says the Moon Empress is just a dragon, not a shapeshifter or a weird other race

[@anthonymichael1259]

I think out of all the dragon children I want to see a book about Zhao the most. Or maybe one of his kids. He's the most interesting one imo.

[@KaiserAfini]

11:35 Such is the power of Nagash !

[@wernerolivier1134]

I'm sorry, but Shen-zoo wandering into Norsca has "Every place has good people in it and I'm gonna show the way to peace! Live! Love! Laugh!" energy.

[@garretthochmuth4522]

Shen Zoo returns to Cathay riding either Karanak, the second largest Dragon Ogre behind Kholek, or Chaos dragon: *Jamaican accent* “This creature does my bidding now.” Miao: *physical pain mixed with visible confusion* “Why?” Norsca beats, Jabberslythe, dragon ogres, Ogre beasts, Druchii and lizardmen dinosaurs, and Karanak: *growling with murderous intent* Shen Zoo: *Jamaican accent* “I would like to pet this creature.” Shen Zoo in lore: *Probably dead from being dumb enough to enter Norsca.* Me, an intellectual: *Playing with the puppy like beasts of Nurgle.* Now who wins in a hugging contest; Vulkan, Shen Zoo, or a Beast of Nurgle?

[@GWR515]

This video got me thinking how the idea of the imperium falling because the emperor was a classic “rich parent” who just didn’t raise their kids and then gave them great responsibility leading to disaster could actually be a great story if it felt like it was more intentional

[@GWR515]

Also yes i am booting TWWH3 up again

[@GWR515]

And I thought T1D was a smooth acronym

[@matt_44882]

Yes! I've been waiting for a Cathay Video! thank you for covering their faction!

[@materg7505]

You’re now the only non Slavic person I know who has drip in a track suit.

[@lukeamparo6586]

I hope Cathay gets a revival in Age of Sigmar.

[@stargeek5]

Ya know I wouldn't have been surprised with a Bad Dragon sponsor

[@Arbiterjim]

I love that there's someone out there that loves Warhammer Fantasy as much as me. The only thing I'd change is disregarding the End Times and their hot dump on the best fantasy setting ever made

[@paytonburrows2325]

Yin Yin is honestly my favorite just because I like the idea of an impulsive hot blooded creature associated with water very interesting. Also I’m just a sucker for haughty characters.

[@jiado6893]

18:20 That thing on Volkmar is WARPSTONE?!? I thought that thing was made of Jade and helped heal the dude!

[@ChadScott-m4w]

COMSTAR: YOU HAVE NO CHOICE~! :D Now in WHF flavor! :D

[@aaronstrever8517]

Yuon Bo really remindes of malcador the sigliete instead of any primarch

[@lewiszhou4056]

19:01 the thought of Zhao Ming dying to warpstone demon core very funny, might as well be a reverse engineered Skaven Doomsphere considering the Demon Core was a retired Nuclear bomb.

[@garretthochmuth4522]

I like to think they were intentionally forgotten about because of both what happened was they betrayed or fell to evil and what it would mean if the world found out. One fell to Chaos and became a humanoid dragon daemon hybrid. He only fell because A) he tried to find and save Shen Zoo but eventually broke. Feeling abandoned by his people and family he now wants revenge and seeks to destroy them and Cathay. Though he believes he still has his free will and his his own master, to the point of hating Archaon, Belakor etc. A fantasy Chaos is more than happy to let him keep believing. And they other is a vampire one the level of Vlad and Neferata. Simply because would be vampire wanted power and turned to the devil via the immortality elixir of Nagash to get it. Though like Nagash he doesn’t “make pacts with others because then he wouldn’t be the one in charge.” Though the trade off is the dragon is now little more than an emaciated and partly decaying corpse in human form and a giant skeletal mummy like creature in dragon form. Nagash naturally doesn’t like him, though respects is power and ambition. When Nagash retuned as a god, he put the skeleton down because he would bend the knee by force. The reason they were made forgotten were because one; it’s embarrassing the “incorruptible” dragon children fell and two; like with the Chaos Dwarfs, Cathay would loose moral high ground over every one else and would be force to accept they are just like everyone else. Which is something the Emperor himself would rather suffer Ursins the fate Total War than admit too.