Should the Primarchs Keep Returning?

[@pancreasnowork9939]

Yvraine has milkies

[@Goldenblitzer]

indeed she does, and Big Rob know all about them

[@cheemsontheinternet385]

Yvraine is the type of person to eat their pizza with a knife and fork.

[@boomer310]

Such amazing commentary, thanks panc

[@genericcat6835]

I think Guilliman's are bigger.

[@tuukkamerilainen5487]

I love the milkies

[@listenherejack]

GW, after the Lion sells out in minutes: "Okay so like we never SAW Rogal die, so...."

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

Royal would be a fifth or Sixth to return. Leman Russ makes the most sense, and we know he's still kicking.

[@InquisitorXarius]

NO DORN SHOULD NEVER RETURN AS CANON DORN IS A ARSE

[@ace_ofchaos9292]

So what has he been doing all this time as the galaxy burns? Dorn: “Magic pain glove! What should I do?!?” Magic pain glove: “Nothing…”

[@sovietunion7643]

@@ace_ofchaos9292 god that honestly is what it feels like

[@DoubtkeyApartments]

​@@ace_ofchaos9292I think he was dead... in pretend

[@KameSennin4209]

The recent lore developments have a real end-times vibe to them.

[@wills5482]

Probably the Tyranids main fleet will start moving towards earth

[@lord_horrick]

That's the problem with putting a story into forward motion instead of just letting the mythos remain. While great for sales, it also begins to lead to the end of the story at some point. Because eventually the story will have nowhere else to go

[@WiseOwl_1408]

​@@lord_horrick they just change the past and retcon or add dumb plot points that cheapen the lore.

[@snakeyman5560]

I think they should have just continued to expand the 30th millennium and the 40th millennium and expand what already exists.

[@Vandelberger]

@@lord_horrickthere is literally a million worlds and 40k years worth or more to uncover bud, and from multiple species. It’ll grow and out live you and I.

[@ianmontecillo1493]

Prediction for this video: the answer is yes but only for the primarchs this elf simp likes

[@keyanklupacs6333]

My prediction is yes but slow it down. Also I mean Leman Russ was a model ages and ages ago so it's not as if this isn't a thing historically.

[@tornadohurricane2916]

He hate them

[@hugozielinski4916]

For Asurayn!

[@HoraceKock]

called an exterminatus on our knife-ear lover before the vid even premiered lmao

[@Wildwolf5910]

Like Vulcan!!!

[@schizosamurai8840]

The Imperium having a bit of a renaissance mimics how Byzantine Empire had a period of growth and reclamation of lost territory during Justinian I. And who else played a pivotal role in that than a chap named...Belisarius. GW at it again

[@SusCalvin]

There is always room for a pun.

[@harmonlanager2670]

Hot take: Yvraine should be the Eldar Primarch-equivalent. Have her partially awaken Ynnead and become his avatar. Make her a magical heavy-hitter with a resurrection ability.

[@bcw1313]

That would be awesome

[@dracosknight1085]

Psyker Celestine, That would be awesome.

[@olorin3815]

Hot take: she should marry G man

[@cthulhubecausewhynot1182]

Arkhaness The Pale

[@PrinceOfChange]

In the grim darkness of the far future, there’s only very disturbing fan fic.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

I mean we know Rogal is somewhere in the Palace acting as a cute yellow centurion , Clonegrim is stuck in a poki-ball , Jaghatai is in the Webway being awesome and we just need to sent the Ultramarines to secure Magnus in a box! So yes Primarchs coming back would be awesome!

[@gregtso7505]

I miss TTS.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

@@gregtso7505 you tell me. But we have Hunter:The Parenting at least :D

[@horusluprecal1144]

Where are the toasters you promised us?

[@turtleofpride4572]

How can you not mention beloved brother frenn Vulken?

[@KingLich451]

@@horusluprecal1144 No

[@TheRemembrancer]

“The Horus Heresy was a real pisser”. Well put.

[@MountainKing88771]

I think the "black hole of attention" is an interesting point. I just got into 40k and started with Space Wolves. If Russ was back, would I care to learn about characters like Bjorn and Ragnar? Maybe eventually but I feel like getting a primarch would usually be first purchase before other HQs. Maybe new Ultramarine players can shed light on they progressed into their faction.

[@RecoilGunnerStudios]

As an ultramarines player i like Guillimans humble greatness as a character. But i like tigurius, Calgar hell even felix from the dark imperium books. Its fun to see how the 30k era marines adapt to the whole chapter system and how kilable they are in comparison to bobby g makes them abit more interesting. I remember the whole "why did you polish your armor again it was fine. Cause trying too hard is what we ultramarines do!" Interaction was fun to see. Thats the most ultramarine thing i ever heard and it came from a marine not Guilliman.

[@Gothead420]

_Looks over to his unpainted Silent King_ 😂

[@AdeptKing]

For me the fact that Guilliman was around was the reason I was drawn to the Ultramarines first. Its a big universe and I guess I was drawn there since that was where the "boss" was. While I tend to prefer the Grey Knights and the Cadians now, I still have a soft spot for the boys in blue. Plus I ended up liking Sicarius for some reason especially after his book came out. Hope he gets a new model at some point.

[@alanolex3962]

What's funny with the Magnus - Ahriman book example you brought up is that Ahriman is the main character in basically every book featuring Magnus.

[@BM-wf9uf]

Classic Primarch as a side character move. Guilliman almost wasn't even in his own Primarch novel lol

[@RougeHound]

Magnus did nothing wrong, but Ahriman is probably a bad example because he's actually super interesting imo. I wouldn't say the same about Kharn the Betrayer or any other first captains.

[@alanolex3962]

@@RougeHound Magnus had some fuckups but the argument that "Well he should've just done nothing when he found out about Horus." Is so fucking stupid. Who *wouldn't* desperately try to alert the Emperor.

[@BM-wf9uf]

@@RougeHound Magnus did a lot wrong lol .. not sure why people think otherwise...

[@BM-wf9uf]

@@alanolex3962 He could have reached out to some of his brothers. Maybe Khan as he was more amenable towards Psykers and respected Magnus. But Magnus should have stopped when he got to the palace and discovered all the runic wards around it protecting it from the exact type of thing he was doing... I refuse to believe Magnus wasn't smart enough to know what those wards were and that he maybe, you know, should not brake them... And he also could just have sent a ship as fast as he could back to Terra. Or literally just joined the Heresy on the side of the Emperor... Magnus was a noble person but he was arrogant. And his arrogance brought about his downfall.

[@totalnerd5674]

Imagine if Isha returned as a and appeared similar to an Avatar of Khaine, that would maybe balance out the Primarchs somewhat...

[@dickc.normous6369]

Ummm you can't really do that without nerfing Nurgle hard. I'd suggest Vaul or Asuryan

[@totalnerd5674]

@@dickc.normous6369 I don't know if that would weaken Nurgle at all... its not like Isha makes up a core part of his being, as she is a separate entity.

[@lowkeyarki7091]

if only gw were willing to give Xenos a win, sure I love the imperium but if it gets boring then don't be surprised if we get 40k end times

[@ttterg6152]

@@totalnerd5674she gives cures to mortals

[@cristhianmlr]

As a anf

[@ivanivanovitchivanovsky7123]

Prediction: he’s gonna say yes to some like maybe Vulkan or Khan. Khan because he’s not a simp for anyone and he’s cool af, Vulkan because he can be used for contrast with the grim af side of the Imperium. Plus, him being a perpetual allows for him to be used as a meatshield in battles when he’s allied with Yvraine and whatever.

[@twicedeadmage]

Khan would be cool, besides Vashtor is in the Webway now, going to Comorragh or the Black Library (maybe), Who else is in the Webway? Khan.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Nah we know Vulcan: cook s’mores over burning Eldar children, would never work with Yvraine.

[@JacobCallejas-vi6su]

Aw yes `vulkan is friend to all'

[@Wormy_fren]

@@levongevorgyan6789 it happened one fucking time.

[@Anonymous-mp2ln]

@@Wormy_fren and we will never let him live it down.

[@lordgeneralmilitantdeezy7550]

I kinda agree with you but also I like having them back. You’re right that they kinda take away some of the grim darkness from the setting by taking the imperium from the back foot but I like their presence in the current 40k. Seeing what they’ll do and how they’ll react to their sons who view them as near gods second only to Big E. Guilliman trying to keep things together while crying himself to sleep in Yvraine’s lap. The Lion forgiving the fallen that didn’t turn to chaos and bringing them back to the fold and also I’m tired of chaos. Sure they don’t have as many W’s as the imperium but they still get W’s especially in Arks of Omen and the main thing I’m tired of is their GOD DAMN CHEAT CODES! Angron gets an eight month respawn where he just cries in the gulag about how he can’t seem to die, Morty gets a god killing virus, Magnus kicked Fenris in their unwashed ale drinking wolf humping viking nuts, and Abaddon got some fancy new toys from daddy Vashtor. It’s like you said in the Stormcast eternal video, sometimes the odds gotta be even where both sides have immortal demigod heroes.

[@ce5122]

if you want personal drama just go to horus heresy and don't make 40k worse

[@christopherbravo1813]

thing is, there is more than two sides.

[@philipkelly7369]

It's unavoidable at this point, you can't put that genie back in the bottle. The primarchs are going to keep coming back, despite the fact that they were meant to only be myth/

[@inthefade]

Yeeaaaah I get what you mean. Turning these mythological characters into something real is bound to make them disappoint. I'm old enough to remember as a kid talking about how COOL these so-called "Clone Wars" must have been and how awesome it would be to have episodes I-III told once and for all! Then we got them, and the clone wars were just very bland. But at the same time, 40K is getting stale to a lot of people, and GW has to attempt something. I think they have to play it slowly and not rush anything as they bring the Primarchs back and add new supreme beings for every faction. It has to be cautious and they need to leave plans to back out of any storyline that goes poorly. Unfortunately being safe can also be boring... So yes, they're taking a huge risk and I am completely unsure if they should be doing it, but it seems inevitable now.

[@PetarJovanovic-oy5bd]

​​@@inthefadethe clone wars show was good tho and setting can't just be the end all be all, like you said, it would die after a while, specially today

[@calebbarnhouse496]

​@@inthefade bro thinks the clone wars aren't badass, opinion disregard and cringe

[@SWProductions100]

​@@inthefade If you haven't, 'The Clone Wars' show might help in appreciating that time. While not perfect, I think it did quite a bit to expand and clarify what the prequels were going for. If you don't feel like all 7 seasons, there are helpful guides for which episodes to watch/skip.

[@musicalDrebin]

were they though? if that was the case they'd all be dead, not missing with a quest to bring them back, or in a coma.

[@redwillow1853]

I'm in the middle honestly. I started the game playing Space Wolves and my feelings about Russ coming back have always been mixed.... It would largely depend on how he returned. I don't expect him to be all pristine and polished hell no. I expect him to look savage and mangy as shit. Also.... and this part most people lose their shit... But he should return looking like a Wulfen. The dude has been in the Warp for 10,000+ years and the Canis Helix is apart of him. Russ coming back STILL looking human would be bullshit. Especially after 10,000+ years. On top of that if Russ returns they need to straighten a few things out with the wolves: 1. Resolve things with Logan and the damn axe already. GW keeps beating around the bush about it driving him crazy. They just need to pull the fucking trigger already. 2. Have Ragnar ascend to the role of Chapter Master. Whether he does so by killing Logan out mercy or because Russ promotes him. 3. And this is the big one... Give Bjorn his,"ya did good son" moment with Russ and have him die gloriously so he can end his saga. Also yes. GW needs to add more primarch level characters to the xenos factions. Just makes it more interesting that way. Which is why I have been interested in Sigmar more.

[@Tony-villa94]

He’s been in the Warp for 10’000 Terran.. who knows if only a few months or several years has only passed already inside the actual Warp. The time flies differently there

[@josea1707]

him being wulfen might not make sense depending on the time he's actually experienced being in the warp time could feel like 500 years for him instead of 10,000. Also remember that russ and the wolves have a near-null like ability to resist psychic energy.

[@redwillow1853]

@@josea1707 True. But it's the Warp and resistance isn't the same immunity. As for time, I have a feeling Magnus will have a part to play with that part of the scenario. He did say back in Wrath of Magnus that he knew where Russ was. Plus him coming back in pristine condition would be a little too much plot armor.

[@josea1707]

@@redwillow1853I agree

[@ZeroNumerous]

There's one tiny mistake in your assessment: The Canis Helix is NOT part of Leman Russ. The Canis Helix is garbage the Space Wolves poisoned themselves with when they arrived on Fenris. Prior to that, as the VIth Legion, there were no Wulfen, there was no curse, and that means the flaw of the Wulfen is from Fenris, NOT Leman Russ geneseed. This also tracks with what the Erlking and Warp-Russ reveals in Wolfbane. Leman Russ, sans Fenris, was a competent and stoic military leader, devoid of any barbarism or savagery. The Canis Helix is a poison the Wolves drink willingly, and makes no sense for it to affect Russ.

[@Birbinator2008]

I think some primarchs might be a good idea, but definitely balance out by throwing other factions a bone

[@bcw1313]

Fulgrim is imminent, so…given. I’d also bet money that Leeman is being lined up as we speak. It would be a crime if we never got daemon bird corax. Who else should come back depends almost entirely on what GW will do with the plot. If Perturabo or Dorn comes back the other one has to. Their rivalry is just too good to not continue. I love Vulkan as a character but I honestly don’t want him to come back just to be sad and forgotten again. If 40k stays grim dark then Vulkan should stay gone. Love the Khan but if they just bring him back to bring him back that’ll be a waste. He should be leading a bunch of renegades if the decide to let the Imperium finally fall apart.

[@Estoph11]

I maintain that is why the Ynnari big boi and the Silent King showed up as well. We have a demi-god and a mfer who killed his gods. While they vary too much in power for my tastes, I think those are going to be it for a while? I can't imagine what a Primarch style for GSC or Tau would be atm. Though thinking about it, deffo think the Avatar of Khaine should be more Primarch level and Vect could easily be Primarch tier.

[@shaderunner8220]

​@@Estoph11 naaa, vect is above primarch level. He's on par with the silent king and the emperor.

[@LovesickMisanthrope]

I'm a fan of the imperium, and I don't want all the primarchs to return or if they do its not long-term/permanent.

[@shadowduke1535]

Vulcan should come back in support of the tau ​@@bcw1313

[@GaijinGoombah]

13:15 Don't worry. That's me and Orks/Tau.

[@taylorwilson6655]

If it's going to happen, *it needs to be Leman*. For two reasons 1 - Business - Spaces Wolves are the next most popular army (which has a 'living' primarch) making a model for him would make the most return. Anecdotally, while i know nobody personally who has the space wolves as their main chapter, the majority of people i know have them in their top 3, making it a real possibility to sway them being the reason people build a new army. 2 - Story - Having the Lion and Girlyman together is great, the imperium desperately needs it. However its almost a bit *too* hopeful. I think the Wolf returning (like a wolf does) will actually do the 'shake up' that GW claimed the lion would do. Leman being in charge to any large capacity will really strain (and possibly snap) any unity between the Astarte's & inquisition, not to mention the face off between the lion and wolf. While neither of them will 'win', its going to live a rift which some enemy can exploit. However... *VULKAN LIVES STOMP STOMP*

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

Well Daddy Vulkan need to come back... but he probably will be thrown in some endless fight against tyranids or orcs, so he dont roam that much. The Lion and girlyman i bet we will have some fun drama. I hate Russ, but he and the Khan are probably goin to get back too, becouse they are kinda neutral and do their own stuff.

[@ieatmice751]

I don’t want leman bro… He’s honestly a kinda bad character and would turn the tide in the imperium’s favour which isn’t the point of 40k

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

@@ieatmice751 Becouse hes a dumb primarch thats why he should be back. To create drama between primarchs. I hate him too... but im sure we will see some primarch duels for dumb bullshit. Vulkan for examples hes to good of a person and to logical, he wont make drama.

[@RougeHound]

Lemon is retarted. He needs to stay lost forever. Vulkan is cool in my book.

[@ianharrison5758]

@@ieatmice751 Leman needs to be one of the last to return, given how his journey has been framed so far. We don’t know what he’s doing specifically but he’s clearly on a mission and he himself said he’d be back for the wolf times. GW could pull a random event out of their ass and slap that name on it to force his return, but that would be a waste. There’s also the fact that to some degree, Leman and Constantine are both working towards the same goal, and given their connection in the lore, I doubt we will see one return without the other soon after.

[@Ceiling_Gato]

I think it's going to be Leman AND Corvus returning next. Raven represents wisdom and guidance in the Norse mythology, so in my headcanon, Corvus guides Leman on his quest to find the Tree of Life within the Warp.

[@City-Hunter]

Then Emperor returns and finds Jagathai

[@Attaxalotl]

@@City-Hunter Jagathai has spent the last ten thousand years trying to go faster than the Drukhari

[@VoxAstra-qk4jz]

What I want is an Angron-like model for Corvus.

[@nandotnt5678]

Post heresy guilliman was amazing for his character. I think if each primarch gets that level of character development then it could be golden. Also shows the promise of the lion from the spoilers of his new book

[@-TheMachineGod-]

I would love to see the primarchs return, and as they return, they divide the Imperium into several different mini empires because they can't agree with each other, but would still have each other's backs when it came to fighting chaos or xenos. This would be especially good if they did something like destroy Mars, so the Mechanicus would divide itself, each mini empire getting a piece, and each competing to get the mechanicus to set up a new home base in their sector, so that it wouldn't just be whichever Primarch controls the Sol system can basically run the Imperium and boss his brothers around. If they did it right, all the primarchs would get some great character development

[@ce5122]

character development? This is 40k not a personal drama space opera.

[@DovahFett]

@@ce5122 Imagine thinking that character development is something that's exclusive to a particular genre.

[@ce5122]

@@DovahFett never said that, it just sure as hell doesn't belong in 40k.

[@lord_horrick]

​@@ce5122 it belongs because stagnation causes loss of interest

[@ClintOrris]

0:23 The memes will be repeated until moral improves.

[@jackbrown7074]

I don't know it's kinda cool, but I worry that its gonna be hersey 2.0 where everything focuses around them and their feuds, so while I want an imperial daemon corax I'd prefer if we built up other things like xneos factions I'd love more interactions where guard forces need to team up with kroot or tau to help beat back tyranids or chaos but that won't happen

[@amaan6964]

I think it would be cool if they show a contrast like where some of the more level-headed primarchs who don't have the emperor looking over their shoulder all the time think that some xenos like the Tau and Eldar aren't really that bad in the grand scheme of things and having imperial people struggling to process the idea of their perceived gods basically not even preaching the beliefs they grew up with.

[@sombodi200]

The priamrch fueds would be the perfefct counter balance to them overpowering the other factions. Similar to how the orks will never win because they can't get along long enough. Or Chaos can't win because they can't get along. The primarchs could also work like this.

[@primary2630]

Never know since its a new edition and tyranids are b3coming bigger threats i think diplo will happen more and more

[@landotucker]

All the surviving primarchs coming back will completely overshadow everything that's going on with the non space marine factions, and at that point GW might aswell just give up the pretense that this is anything other than a game about space marines (and everything else is stuff for them to kill) and just rename warhammer 40k to space marines

[@LouisKing995]

I’m primarily a book fan so I have no issue with that. The heresy books are head and shoulders above the 40k books imo

[@Papa_Nurgle360]

bro your my favorite creator full stop, when i want to laugh and nerd out with the chillax music from my most cherished game from my childhood, you always got my back

[@BM-wf9uf]

I think at this point they've passed a point of no return. There is already hints that Fulgrim will be back before the end of 10th edition. And Vulkan, Leman and Jaghatai have always been just "missing"... I'm impressed with the way Guilliman was returned and the manner in which he has been portrayed since. Haven't finished reading The Lion, about half way, but so far so good, so if they keep it up then I'll be happy for them all to return.

[@kathynguyen8519]

Imagine Deamon Primarch Fulgrim returned only for Clone Fulgrim to break out of Trazyn museum and made his way to Terra to asked Bobby G and the Lion for a chance to redeem himself and defeat Daemon Fulgrim. I would squirt thinking of Primaris Emperor Children and Loyalist Fulgrim.

[@rickkcir2151]

@@kathynguyen8519 The problem is wouldn’t clone Fulgrim be weaker than regular Fulgrim since he wouldn’t have the warp deity as his soul anymore. That’s what happened with the Horus clone. Granted, clone Fulgrim would still be very strong. Just not Primarch level.

[@lordofshades9852]

​@rickkcir2151 technically actual Fulgrim doesn't have that either anymore, and is instead replaced with chaos juice

[@SonofSethoitae]

People have been saying there are hints about Fulgrim coming back for the last 3 editions. I'll believe it when I see it.

[@jessicalacasse6205]

gulliman probly did more damage to the empire ( codexe)... plus the way people worship the emperor if big E would return he would have to monarchia the empire and gulliman would not let him do so you would get heresy 2.0 but having tried to build his empire secundus, let bet like huron he probly got more than 1000 marine on 500 world just in ultramar ( and since other chapter are lock at 1000 who can oppose him ... ) ((yeah i play word bearer , night lordz ))

[@JQuackymax]

9:15 As someone sorta new to the setting I actually really like the Primarchs returning and the New Technologies being developed. It feels like the start of a new era, Where the Imperuim is throwing everything into it's survival and Chaos/Tyrannids are throwing everything back in a big climactic moment. I know it's never going to happen but it still feels like the setting is moving forward to something. Also personally not a fan of the Grimdark- Chaos and Tyrannids will win because their Chaos and Tyrannids and because they're so horrible they have the plot armor in this universe. At least give the Eldar, Imperuim, and others a legit fighting chance, even if it's low odds, and the recent lore feels like that.

[@storebrandpeas5413]

I agree, love the vibe of the setting but I hate how people complain when things get better "because it's grimdark and that ruins it". Grimdark as a concept is stupid.

[@efffvss]

@@storebrandpeas5413 Also, it seems people forget the full line tbh. "In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war". The Imperium actually getting some (non-pyrrhic) wins or the occasional hope spot doesn't make the setting less grimdark, as there's no way peace will break out. It would just make the narrative less one note.

[@feihceht656]

youngins don't respect the original integrity of the setting as satire

[@osmosisjones2822]

I'd love to see the khan come back for a few moments, take a look at the absolute state of the imperium of mankind and just say "na I'm going back to racing the Dark elves for shits and giggles"

[@MidoriOfTheShuinsen]

"Fuck this, Comorragh was more fun."

[@savagex466-qt1io]

Im glad to see you still makeing videos and keep doing what your doing man. Good stuff bud !

[@jijansguidetotheuniverse1852]

for those who wanted to strangle themselves finding the text at 14:11, it says "This isnt a joke I genuinely wish ill upon you if you use leatherface. "just use corners and ledges" yeah alright buddy ill keep that in mind when I'm in an empty field and he starts swinging at me for 3 hours straight."

[@HoraceKock]

I want Primarchs returning in a capacity where it’s not just each new edition or something, but a more fleshed out timeline between each potentially alive Primarch so lore/stories won’t need to be forced drivel written by deadlines. They’ve done a good job so far, so I have high hopes for the future of their direction.

[@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593]

I mean guilliman returned in 8th edition

[@tylerschofield]

Yeah, the gap between guilliman and the lion is like 6 years. Bobby G was released in 2017 lol. And in that time we have had many many books in that time focused around him, the indomitus crusade, some mechanicus stuff, some necron stuff, some tau stuff and a bunch of chaos stuff all focused around the new lore and him coming back and much more. Cadia is gone, the galaxy torn in half, psychic awakening shenanigans etc Not sure we needed anymore time to flesh that part of the lore out lol

[@HoraceKock]

@@tylerschofield i see i’ve created confusion, i think the return of Big G and the Lion were both well done and fleshed out. i was saying i hope this consistency is maintained going forward with primarch returns and GW doesn’t write it home with these great moments just because model sales are going crazy.

[@totalnerd5674]

GW just needs even more writers.

[@totalnerd5674]

@Just Vibing Oh, of course, I meant more good writers.

[@worryjspverybadatd2125]

Night Haunter is my special boy and I want to see him return. Not that he would want to come back, or that he would do much in the setting. He’s just a silly little guy who likes to do silly little things

[@sirunklydunk8861]

There are a lot of things that depend, but I want them to come back as sparingly as possible I don’t want the setting to turn into Horus Heresy 2.0, and the more we give to the Primarchs the more we take away from factions that could really use new lore and updates like pretty much any Xenos faction. I feel like the more Primarchs we add the smaller the setting feels On the other hand Primarchs are cool and I’d love to see them on table top (As long as they aren’t canonically dead, like don’t bring Sanguinious or Ferris Manus back).

[@sovietunion7643]

i mean what they should do is stay the hell away from major primarchs. we don't need vulkan or leman russ returning because that would shake up everything and start to give bloat. give us smaller primarchs that would be more subtle to the setting. maybe some corvax returning as a loyalist demon prince and the controversy between guilliman and the lion on whether to trust corvax. clone fulgrim would also be a great choice. he has never been a fighting primarch and allowing a sort of redemption arc for the primarch that shouldn't have fallen to chaos at all, and fulgrim was a huge artist so seeing someone inspire troops with fulgrim's amazing art skills, i think it would be nice and would inject a nice little bit of noble bright into the setting.

[@jaysonyoungman8772]

​@@sovietunion7643 fulgrim was 100% a fighting primarch, I think he had the most primarch kills of his brothers. Aside from that I totally agree

[@ArantyrDarkhand]

Sanguinious wont come back im 100% sure. But we will have some kind of blood angel avatar thing.

[@Rawnblade13]

Ferrus Manus back? That would require GW to remember the Iron Hands exist at all.

[@captdip9197]

@@jaysonyoungman8772Debate-able it was mostly the sword than him fighting.

[@fenrirsrage4609]

Considering all the stories, legends and prophecies of the Primarchs coming back during times of great need in the lore, it is kinda neat seeing some of them come to fruition and with the Emperor's boys coming back again. Overall I don't really mind it myself, it is nice seeing Primarchs who have been out of the loop react to the grimdark insanity of the current Imperium. Sad/Tired Guilliman will always be my favorite meme.

[@MrNasher113]

I want Votan to discover Vulkan buried somewhere in a planets core, think mixing factions to discover certain primarchs could be a really cool way to get every faction involved, Eldar definitely needs to be the reason Fulgrim comes back too, there’s so many opportunities and creative ideas they could do with it, that’s what I’m excited about

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

It would be pretty cool if they made him into a servitor.

[@agentkronos6438]

​@@AbstractTraitorHero Who? The Votan?

[@The-jy3yq]

@@AbstractTraitorHero Vulkan's probably fried out of his mind from a millenia of napping(?) as well as the Beast™ chugging some WAAAGH! energies through it also, only half of his relics have been found, yes? he might be just a braindead sausage without them or...something

[@thegiantcrow7416]

@@The-jy3yq Lion been a sleep for longer and he’s doing pretty alright mentally….aside from depression but it seems to just run in the family for all the brothers

[@maxnovakovics2568]

​@@The-jy3yq I thought they had like 9 out of 12 of Vulkans relics or something

[@Kajerman]

For the Lore I'm not so sure but for the minis I'd say yes. I'd love to have the models. Feels a bit unfair that some factions have Primarchs while others can't. Of course, others whom are not Space Marines would need something equivalent, as you mentioned.

[@TacticalReaper56]

That's a hard one man. All the hype with the Lion it's hard to not ask for more. At the same time I can see where this question is coming from. Bloat can be bad for any game.

[@sovietunion7643]

i mean 2 of the most influential primarchs already returned. anyone short of vulkan or sanguinius returning is going to feel meh. personally i still want that. give me clonegrim or crow demon corvax returning to add some interest into the mix rather than just "cool murder person returns, chaos ensues" so i think they can make primarchs return but it shouldn't be galaxy shaking everytime.

[@breadstick4458]

@@sovietunion7643 If Corvus come back as a crow daemon I wonder how that would effect Lorgar? Would he return? That could be interesting but then I’m a word bearers simp so I would like that

[@ezragoldberg3132]

​@@sovietunion7643 i feel like they've laid more of the ground work for the return of Leman Russ than any other Primarch. Btw, wth is up with your Profile Pic?

[@sovietunion7643]

@@ezragoldberg3132 funny hoi4 moment. i once found out in an old version if you increased communist support for finland it would go communist and ask to be puppeted or annexed by the USSR. i don't mean the USSR asked i mean finland requested it be puppeted. i found this so funny so i made a lot of my accounts have this icon. finland after it was communist but before puppetification was named red finland so there you go.

[@sovietunion7643]

@@breadstick4458 lorgar might make a comeback, which could be interesting considering he was one of the main architects of the heresy and the first primarch to have been planning the heresy for some time at that point.

[@miles_da-tractor_man]

15:41 bro wtf

[@C.D.G.1]

Middle. GW should add more Primarch-like characters to the other factions. Like a new bigger bug, death elf god at 50% power, and an ork with a very big gun.

[@thehermitman822]

IT'S KRORKIN TIME

[@sheakennedy-ordway1156]

They could even meme it up, call him 'boss chungus'.

[@leandrocastello309]

The more you depart with the grimdark and just make bigger empty flashes you risk making the setting into a zombie, ala DBS, Boruto, and Stars Wars sequels. You have to grab this with _much_ care.

[@cegesh1459]

​@@leandrocastello309 I mean that was always part of it from the start and can be done grim dark lamo.

[@heistingcrusader_ad3223]

​@@leandrocastello309 might I remind you that orks make the perfect in between funny and grimdark.

[@GreenSwordsman1]

Im pretty happy with the primarchs comming back, but only under certain conditions. Id would love to see the imperium finally break in half. A few loyalist primarchs could be holding back just barely against the onsaught, or hell give the lion the half that broke off and watch as he transforms it into a rival

[@derpyboi8591]

I just want Corvus to come back. I want to see him in his daemon bird glory and it'd be hilarious to see Imperials reacting to being svaed by a loyalist daemon. How would Lion and Guilliman react to his new form, is he even going to feel like he belongs anymore. So potential with Corvus itd be a shame if he never came back

[@Stop_Gooning]

Truly, the Dee Reynolds of 40K. Russ: "Hahaha you look like a bird!"

[@Coyotebriggs]

I wholeheartedly agree, let Corvus come back and just Rip and Tear as a shadow raven. Another i'd really like to see back is Dorn, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on that one.

[@turbocat8329]

It's not like Saint Celestine and the Legion of the Damned aren't already loyalist Daemons

[@Johnnyupside]

@@turbocat8329 They look the part to be his loyal servant. Corvus is going to take a bit convincing

[@SilentSakura-]

I want Vulcan. Big cuddly man bashes heads in with hammer.

[@100StepProgram]

Short answer for me is yes, there’s only so long a story can stay stagnant and if there has to be god like children of prophecy protagonists in order to bring change I’m all for it.

[@someguy4405]

I think we should see more of a "fall of Roman empire" situation where The Imperium weakens and breaks up into smaller regions lead by returned Primarchs that are sometimes set against each other, at least until The Emperor's foreshadowed return.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

The emperor could never return, it would throw away literally all the themes of the setting.

[@The-jy3yq]

@@AbstractTraitorHero Imagine this godly being being bullied into submission by fucking Tyranids

[@someguy4405]

​@@AbstractTraitorHero Not if he returns as The Dark King, which is what I think will happen. Ideally, he would come back as a horrifying eldritch being, which is more or less what he is already.

[@someguy4405]

@@The-jy3yq The Tyranids are a force so vast that they exist outside the galaxy and can attack it from multiple angles. I'm not even a nids fan, but they are bigger than anything The Emperor ever did. The way to balance out the return of The Emperor would be to give the Tyranids a character or force of equivalent power from outside the galaxy. Honestly, GW has already done something like this by balancing the return of the Primarchs with returning Daemon-Primarchs and successes from Chaos. Give more factions powerful characters, advance the plot, maintain "there is only war" balance, keep the fans of each faction happy. Everybody wins.

[@samiamtheman7379]

@@AbstractTraitorHero I think at most, he would have a bigger presence in the warp, depending on whether his plans of battling the chaos gods included fighting them in their home turf.

[@MrThatpersonthatguy]

I wanna see the primarch action first and foremost, like you were saying, but After reading alot of the deathwatch short stories I have a special place in my heart for the average marine and I would miss stories about space marine seargants and lower ranks, Especially like the Iron Snakes novel.

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

A great deal of the 30k stuff was about non-primarch characters. Mechanicum is probably a good example, although the main character is arguably the Emperor, or part of him.

[@AnxiousEducator]

It doesn't matter whether they should or shouldn't. GW will do it anyway because 1) it is a very easy and low effort way of advancing the story and 2) primarch models are guaranteed to sell in massive numbers

[@Stop_Gooning]

I disagree fundamentally with the idea of "advancing the story" _of the setting at large._ Golden Age Humanity collapsed and the *Emperor* failed to reclaim their greatness; now the Imperium is locked in an endless stalemate, unable to advance without also giving ground. *That's the way* it _should be._

[@vsGoliath96]

​@@Stop_Gooning Except that the plot stayed stagnant for almost 30 years and people got sick of it or turned it into a meme. Advancing the plot had to happen eventually. It was inevitable.

[@grizzlyblackpowder1960]

@@vsGoliath96 I wouldn't say the lore was 100% stagnant for 30 years. It probably was for the people who played competitively and only saw the lore through the perspective of a single faction. But there are many novels, bits of lore in the each armies codex, and lore stories pushed in magazines or core rulebooks. Yeah on a grand scale it stayed much the same, but things were always happening, they just weren't thing that included gigantic God tier heroes, because warhammer isn't supposed to be magic the gathering or pokemon.

[@vsGoliath96]

@@grizzlyblackpowder1960 That's a perfectly reasonable way to see it. I think the biggest issue was the plot in filling, if we can call it that. GW's refusal to move past 999 M41 started causing weird shit in the setting that didn't make sense. A bunch of events started piling on top of each other, to the point where, say, Blood Angel characters were engaged in two wars on opposite sides of the galaxy simultaneously or normal human characters who should have been dead for hundreds of years were still kicking around. It also made it hard to introduce new models for existing factions because then you have to justify where they've been all this time. Just from a sales perspective, the timeline had to move so that new stuff could be introduced to the game.

[@grizzlyblackpowder1960]

@@vsGoliath96I get that, lore for setting like this always seems to get stuck on one time line issue or another, and unfortunately they ended up in the exact opposite boat as battletech somehow. Battletechs lore being far too stretched out.

[@tsundae7669]

The point about Primarchs making the universe revolve around them is precisely what makes the Harrowmaster Alpha Legion book so damn enjoyable to me. The central character is an Alpha Legionnaire who’s gotten utterly fed up with the state of the Legion. All the disparate warbands have gotten so far up their own asses pulling off minor raids and sleeper cell creation to no meaningful end goal, all on the basis of “But if we keep just doing the shit Alpharius trained us in something’s bound to come to fruition.” The MC got a bunch of warband leaders in a room together to tell them they were being complete dumbasses, that subterfuge has no value without an overarching goal to work towards. And to top it all off, the author makes a pointed jab at the definitive Alpha Legion meme by portraying the jackasses who still say “I am Alpharius” as sycophants who everyone else in the Legion is sick of by now. The whole book has the fantastic energy of a fan who got fed up with everyone-GW included-settling for “but maybe this was ALLLLLLLL an elaborate plan from Alpha Legion and no one will ever know” as the only meaningful interaction they have with the universe. The author shows what raw power a Legion that thrives in deception could have on a governing body as bloated and inefficient as the Imperium, if they would just get off their self-absorbed asses and actually put that power to use. It’s a fantastic depiction of a Legion’s attempts to step out of the shadow of its Primarch, and I adored it.

[@TheWarpForge]

I'm not much of an AL fan but i feel like I need to read it now. I'll have to find a copy on Ebay somewhwere. Thanks!

[@theroadstopshere]

I'm well aware that my personal life experience the last decade plays into my biases pretty heavily, but I'll put forward that for me the slow but steady return of Primarchs and major lore figures (hey, Silent King, where you at these days? I wanted to see Necrons ascendant, dammit) has been pretty universally a net positive in terms of lore experience because it brings change and new life to factions and the setting as a whole-- even if that change isn't always in keeping with the interminable decay and despair that was the feel of the setting for the longest time. Struggling with worsening or plateauing physical and mental health issues, while watching so much of the real world around me struggle with stagnation, corruption, complacency, and despair, having life jolted into the Warhammer setting and multiple of the key factions has been a breath of fresh air and reminder of untapped potential that's worth exploring. No setting or story lives forever, and neither do we, and seeing so much change and moments of new excitement and tension in a setting that's been incredible but eternally decaying for most of my life. Having legends step out of myth and foggy mythology retold as clear story always has its downsides and disappointments, but seeing the Primarchs humanized and struggling has generally left me feeling more attached to the setting and more hopeful for myself and the world around me, which is something I've come to deeply value. I definitely feel that the xeno factions deserve more of their own Primarch-tier characters to balance things out a bit better (or in the case of the Eldar, to have their already-existing Primarch-tier characters given a real glow-up and re-debut to the setting with the proper respect this time), but for right now I can understand why bringing back Primarchs and focusing on the Imperium and Chaos are first on the docket-- they sell the best and draw in the most new players, and require the least new story and marketing to sell people on their faction. But I hope the natural conclusion of this arms race of big dick players in the setting eventually leads to real, significant changes and shakeups that give each faction their time to shine and their time to be the shiny blood puddle under another's boots. ...and then someday I want them to be successful enough that they just say "fuck it" and release body pillows of both space marines and eldar so I can be the little spoon for my Crimson Fist fist fantasy bf and the big spoon for my big titty Craftworld Eldar fantasy gf But mostly the lore stuff. Mostly.

[@youngthinker1]

The problem with 40k, is the need to make everything planetary or larger scale. I can only think of a few book series which focuses on smaller threats, but almost always it is some galaxy spanning threat. If we had a book series which focuses on individual stories, then it would be interesting. Something like the diaries of a Guardsmen under some no name Commizar forced to fight against Savage Orcs on some unknown planet while the Imperial tax man demands that they move off world as the threat has been solved, while stating his great grand parents would take his place, as their death certificates never came through. Man I wish there were more stories like the "All Guardsmen Party."

[@somethingmoredecent]

Bro I know I'm just some random but watching you over the course of months your production quality and scripting for these videos is literally better every time, mad respect and ty for the content

[@Interrobang212]

Guilimans return was fantastic for the lore. As the sole loyal primarch, the crushing weight of responsibility and loneliness made for an interesting character. I think bringing back more loyalists is a mistake if they don't have some sort of conflict.

[@ce5122]

but then that just makes 40k about the drama and emotions of an extremely small group of people when it should be about the trillions.

[@AdeptKing]

I feel like that would make the Primarchs look bad though. I know that they're not perfect but I think they should at least try to be adults with each other. They already acted immature enough during the Horus Hersey.

[@timon6759]

My favorite summary of the seige of Terra is from Adeptus Ridiculus. It makes everything make more sense.

[@slowking2088]

I really like the primarchs overall making them comeback to the setting is a bit strange. The solution to make all happy is keep giving everyone more op stuff but then it end up being to op so idk really. But since we are getting Primarchs back I can't wait to get Pertarabo as a model in 40k

[@davidrosenburg6319]

Give tau a tech breakthrough, eldar tau temporary alliance, eldar tau models, necrons new models and units, new guardsman units oh and for orks just a buff

[@davidrosenburg6319]

Also i do think a eldar tau alliance could happen not a huge one but an alliance

[@norad_clips]

Guilliman’s portrayal in that cutscene is a pretty good route to take, at least for now. The Imperium is still in a world of hurt.

[@bewr1791]

At 5:06 that's not guilliman, think his name starts with an A, which doesn't help that much lmao. Maybe it was Alexius or smth.

[@DylanGosseye]

I mean, as a chaos daemon only player, i feel like our strongest characters (the named greater daemons) are like butter for the primarchs. No way they are ever gonna let Skarbrand beat The Lion. So in that way i relate to the Xenos players.

[@norsehorse84]

Funny how for a lot of people say the Imperium and Chaos are given basically everything and the xenos are given nothing. But in actuality, it's far worse than that. If you look closer, you realize basically anything that isn't Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines are treated like complete dogshit by GW. As a fan of mostly Necrons, Tau, and Chaos Daemons, it's made me basically not care about 40k in favor of Fantasy, cause in that setting it doesn't feel like GW is ignoring over 90% of its own universe.

[@crcb251]

​@norsehorse84 I'm a huge CSM fan and you're totally right; as much as I complain about dumb lore stuff and how loyalists beat traitors constantly, at least they're presented as a serious threat requiring massive forces and sacrifices to stop, and do get strong wins like the Great Rift. Top tier Xenos characters like Ghaz or Swarmlord get taken out by marine captains or a couple custodes...

[@Ladoran2002]

Just started watching your content and I was not prepared for that shotgun blast at the end of the video.

[@abnegazher]

Yes. Vulkan, Dorn (Dreadnough Disguise Mode) and Corvus should come back. Then I will finally be able to play If The Emperor Had an Text-to-Speech Device.

[@ciCCapROSTi]

Centurion.

[@robrib2682]

the disguise will only be complete if he has a shotgun in his hand

[@Darqshadow]

Russ. He needs to unite woth his sons in both the SW and the Wolf Spears

[@codycollins8556]

If I had to guess which loyalist primarch to return, I’d say either Khan or Russ. Khan has had several mentions in recent modern lore (plus he’s extremely underrated). As for Russ, the Space Wolves are popular and love him or hate him, having a model of Russ wielding the Emperor’s lightning claw would be pretty awesome.

[@dakotamoore3126]

One of my favorite details about Pancreas’s videos is the Age of Mythology music being played during them. Nostalgia trip.

[@UnbreakableTaco]

I'm waiting for the inevitable reverse card play happening, and seeing some AoM Do or Don't with music from, say, Dawn of War 2.

[@yamibakura8597]

While in fantasy series, it's very common for the story to be set in a Dark Age after a Golden Age (Roman Empire --> Early Medieval Era) , in some the characters will slowly gain more knowledge and power and set the stage or bring about the return/begin a new Golden Age. However, this is usually only suited for more optimistic stories, such as Wheel of Time, Stormlight Archive, etc. I don't really feel like it's appropriate for Warhammer, though I don't share your opinion on the Primarchs. I got into Warhammer when the Horus Heresy was in full swing so I never got to meet them as figures of myth like in the early days.

[@thomascowling9930]

I think we all know the real reason for why he doesn’t want the Primarchs to come back is cause he knows Leman Russ is next

[@antonious1685]

the last bit got you a sub, love your content bro!

[@baneblade__]

I think it's cool that they're coming back since they're advancing the whole world's story but they need to be offset by the xenos factions getting their own equivalent Not that they will of course :^)

[@JoshuaAndres]

1:50 I’m a history nerd so my head canon is that the primarchs are the reincarnations of historical figures from Ancient Terra

[@Wormy_fren]

Only reason as to why the pheonix lords are killed repeatedly is because they can revive even when destroyed. If you remove their slap on armor and become phoenix lord and make them more vulnerable and deadly then they'll get narrative strength. The revivable characters are always targeted since there's no weight to them dying.

[@InquisitorThomas]

Yeah, Settra the Imperishable, the most giga of gigachads got killed by some no name Norscan Chieftain.

[@nephihenry4328]

To be fare, I'd be alot less carful about dying if I could resurrect myself too. Fighting someone like that is terrifying, because they can disragard risk and just keep coming

[@Sorain1]

@@nephihenry4328 That's why Perpetuals don't have long term enemies that aren't other Perpetuals. Edit: Or other 'can always come back' type entities.

[@PlasmaPea04]

This is also the reason why the avatar of khaine dies a lot and why nids and chaos dont lose so much, even if you kill them it basically has no impact on them whatsoever

[@dome2919]

We need Eldar advocates like you tanking the jeers so that the position stays alive. Also! I would love it if the returning primarchs transition the story into a post-imperium-focused place. This kinda steals from a previous video of yours, but letting the imperium shrink (perhaps not die entirely) and letting primarchs set up localized kingdoms would be a great way to set up stories in which primarchs are involved but NEED interaction from xeno characters to make their story pop. Without the entirety of the Imperium and it's institutions bearing down on these kingdoms, the primarchs could face the daunting task of working against the sort of dogmatic image of the emperor in order to establish their own domains. Double points if this means dealing with xenos (diplomatically or not). Humanity and space marines can still get spotlight, but localizing stories means that fewer of those humans are realistically available for any one story and Xenos can get some fleshing by sheer necessity of making the locales of those primarchs pop.

[@Nervete]

Real opinion: I think more primarchs should make their way back, but have extremely limiting factors, such as being largely preoccupied with a task too monumental to ignore, therefor giving them presence without making everyone expect their participation in the grander setting's every other activity. Say if Khan came back, but he has to spend most of his time dithering in the webway to keep the druhkari off Terra, or Russ comes back, but still going after that tree of life with all cylinders. I'm not saying these exact ideas are great, but I like the idea of other primarchs still being around, just with their galactic significance dampened and a character specific ongoing story to keep them busy and away from the greater narrative.

[@ianharrison5758]

Corax works perfectly in that role. Have him return, but not as a general, but as the emperors warp hitman, who will occasionally pop into a battle and save a key world, but is more often bisecting traitors and foiling schemes only the emperor knew about.

[@henryfleischer404]

@@ianharrison5758 So kind of like the Legion of the Damned?

[@TheDeadPoolfan]

As a fan that came into the lore in 2020, i love the primarchs and want more of them. Maybe if i was into the lore before the heresy when they were just myths id understand the gripes. But i wasnt and i think theyre dope af.

[@Holy_Moly69]

Same lol, giant ancient men that can fucking benchpress a house coming back from the dead is cool af

[@ninjacatsif2135]

Prediction: No because it keeps the focus on the primarchs and their daddy issues and keeps focus away from the more interesting parts of 40k

[@samiamtheman7379]

"The last perpetual standing by his side, Erda." Malcador: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@Justin_black_leviathan]

I think so. Fulgrim makes a lot of sense for chaos, and I wouldn't mind seeing Russ or one or two of the loyalist.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

I always like the idea that robute was being tested in a way going against his brothers representing a different form of chaos as part of his hero’s arc culminating Rebute defeating Fulgrim. The catalyst for Lorgar to finally emerge from the eye at the head of a world bearers force sow massive it dwarfs even the black legion the forces of chaos undivided embarking on the second shadow crusade in their wake world after world is engulfed in strife terror and civil war as chaos cultus nurtured by dark apostles rise up against the imperium clearing a path for Lorgars shadow fleet to lay siege to Terra and succeed where Horus failed.

[@TheNKillham]

I am interested in what they are going to do with Fulgrim not only do I want to see him get his Chaos tabletop, but with the clone they could do a double release where they do both the Original Chaos Fulgrim and uncorrupted clone. Plus the possibility for real good lore.

[@PrimarisBlackTemplaDraven]

I hope so I can't wait for Dadornable to return and used Big E's claw.

[@natanlopes5254]

OOOOHHHH He will becomes the NEW IMPERIAL WARMASTER

[@InquisitorThomas]

That would actually be kinda kick ass, sure Dorn lost his hand, but now he has Big E’s Giant fucking talon hand.

[@PrimarisBlackTemplaDraven]

Didn't Dorn became defacto Warmaster during the siege of Terra and I feel like if a Primarch return they would take their inheritance from Big E.

[@tjforsythe97]

can confirm the algorithm likes recommending this, i watched 1 do or don’t video from this guy and now my feed is absolutely infested… i’ve never played warhammer in any capacity, and have the more barebones idea of the lore possible

[@pancreasnowork9939]

Yeah, KZbin sees you watched one video from a channel and drowns your feed in them and anyone like them.

[@redautobotsoldier3812]

I think Corax should be the next primarch to return. However, I do think he should remain in the warp and hidden from the imperium. I believe he would be a valuable ally of Ynnead and her Ynnari. With his help they could possibly raid Slaanesh’s palace and retrieve the final Crone sword needed to bring back Yneead. This could also be the perfect opportunity to bring Fulgrim or Lorgar back into the story. We also don’t know the full extent of Corax’s primarch daemon form so it would be interesting to see him fight a Keeper of secrets or his brothers in the warp. Obviously, this wont happen as it doesn’t center around the Imperium winning the next big battle.

[@taylorwilson6655]

I would LOVE Corvus to be in the larger narrative, but i don't think he'll ever get a model. By the reality of what he is now, he wouldn't be fronting an army and even if he could, it most certainly wouldn't be the raven guard or any astartes. You've got more chance of Ferrus coming back with a new line of the legion of the damned

[@thenerfkid9228]

​@@taylorwilson6655he's assumed his true warp form. Outside of the warp he might be different, closer to 30k corvus but die to the great rift still can turn into a flock of ravens for deepstriking.

[@ianharrison5758]

Corvus should get a soft return well before he’s fully revealed. He’d be perfect in a Sanginor type role. With his stealth powers and new warp form, he could be protecting Guilleman and The lion from incoming threats in the warp. Imagine G man receives word that Lorgar is about to return in a full scale invasion of a critical system, only for the interception fleet to find the word bearers that were trying to summon him were butchered with no trace of who did it, And no hints are dropped to anyone but the audience that it was Corax.

[@tipsgaming20]

You got me with that Yvraine part ya xeno for that have me like and subscription

[@Mecha_phant0m]

The only other primarch(s) that should come back is clone fulgrim or jagatai with a more leaning towards jag because holy shit the white scars NEED something to keep them relevant because right along with iron Hands and the raven guard I frequently forget they exist

[@thenerfkid9228]

its raven guard not dark ravens bro. at least you remembered the sons of corax.

[@mitrion301]

Iron Hands, I don't need to say anymore. It hurts So much

[@sovietunion7643]

corvax coming back would be cool i think. having a loyalist demon prince is something we haven't seen before

[@Mecha_phant0m]

@@thenerfkid9228 lol my b, edited it

[@BrandonL337]

Honestly it feels like it's less an issue of things getting too bad that people get tired of it, and more a case of suspension of disbelief that the imperium still exists. Like consider the "story" of 10th edition, a massive nid hide fleet threatening Terra, if G-man and the Lion weren't around, It'd feel kinda bullshit for the imperium to survive, it feels like an end- times scenario. Especially with the other half of the imperium cut off from the astronomicon. I think the primarch's return, and Cawl's advancements serve to make the imperium's survival actually believable, while still feeling like it's on the edge of ruin.

[@dressednplaid4875]

If we get Volcan back it would be a easy way to include the Eldar into a major storyline.

[@The-jy3yq]

*DAMN, THIS'D BE HOT*

[@bingbotswana388]

Honestly I haven’t been around the setting very long so Guilliman has always been here for me. While I understand that bringing them back makes the setting less Grimdark as they start to improve the Imperium (even if it’s not by huge standards). I would say I like it because, at least on the lore side from what I’ve heard, the universe was very stagnant. Like I get the Imperium is a dying empire, but is it truly dying when the setting has been around for 40 years. The game is made by humans so the Imperium truly was never going to go anywhere and there’s only so much time a story can stagnate and basically say “everything sucks” before it begins to feel like the End-Times. I don’t want it to turn hopefully like Star Trek or Star Wars, but I don’t mind *some* positive stuff happening now and then so long as, hopefully, bigger Xenos threats happen (I want some major Nids or Ork action)

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

Absolutely they should, because it raises the stakes. By focusing the setting on a select few characters again, the risk of failure increases as more of the burden is taken away from more available elements, subject to writing quality; this makes for a more engaging and satisfying story. The issue arises with every element of the 40K property: that it can never end, as it shall either make money or end prematurely when it does not. We shall never get another Lord of the Rings epic: there's simply too much onus on profit rather than art.

[@Admiral.Snakbar]

the setting had characters, Marneus Calgar, Luis Dante, Logan Grimnar, Gaunt, Cain, Ol bale eye, gazzy. We don't need the dumb mary sues to come back. We need to focus on what we had already.

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

​@@Admiral.Snakbar Immortality allows you to tell longer and more intricate stories. We need a balance. With there being a limited number of Primarchs that can return, and the fact that the Primarchs will have their returns staggered over the next decade or so, I don't see it being an issue.

[@cyanideinmycereal1077]

Tbh I'd be down if they all came back but don't bring them all back as they were in 30k, like update their views on 40k based on how they are as people. Idk if Lion would really hate the ecclesiarchy that much, considering it holds the Imperium together relatively well and ultimately serves to drive the fervor of the population against the Emperor's enemies anyway, and considering he's got like new magic teleport powers I think its kinda reasonable for him to be like 'Yeah maybe they're not so bad considering Dad can't like literally rule anymore, maybe he can rule as God instead." Or do it a lot slower. We got back like 5 in 7 years and idk maybe that's kinda too quick.

[@finncampbell4662]

I personally always wanted to see a resurgent imperium kicking ass because in order to keep the “status quo” GW would e v e n t u a l l y have to give all the other factions a bunch of cool new stuff too. :)

[@chasebladesword1211]

Ok I believe I have a plausible explanation for the crossover at 12:30 . In the specific game it's referencing called Megadimension Neptunia VII, the middle and right girls are Goddess Guardians of a nation in one dimension that get sent into an alternate dimension where the Orange haired girl is the only surviving Goddess, and in order for the sisters to get home they have to fight a giant robot that just so happens to look similar to an Avatar of Khaine. Apologies if it's a bit long.

[@kapitankapital6580]

I dunno I think they actually add to the "everything is fucked" vibe. The fact that you have all these legendary heroes coming back for one last fight could be something out of any of a dozen religions' concept of the End of Days. To me it feels like the Imperium clicks 30 seconds closer to midnight every time a primarch awakes.

[@Knight1029]

I probably have the most controversial take and that is I am fine with the Primarchs returning because it advances the setting towards an end. I want to see an ending of the setting because I just don't like the BS of, "Will the Imperium survive? Or will Chaos final win? Perhaps the ever hungry Tyranids consumption will take hold." But in reality no one wins and nothing is changed. All the posturing of change is meaningless. I want change and that does mean an end. Obviously that also means I am in favour of the end times. I just want it to be good.

[@WintersFinalstand]

Pancreas, you forgot something. There are 4 potential Loyalist Primarchs. Guilleman, The Lion, Vulkan the farmer, and 1 special little soul. You see, there are 2 Fulgrims. And 1 just escaped his cage set on unmaking the real one's mistakes. I wanna see that plot thread. I wanna see a reborn Phoenician. I wanna see Fulgrim against the serpent.

[@Jsay18]

They'll fuck it up, but its a very cool plot thread, I will admit it.

[@warhammerguy]

Honestly I really like it both in regards to loyalist and traitor primarchs. Just like in the lore itself the Imperium was starting to feel stagnant in how it feel and the return of loyalist primarchs have not only given new life to the imperium but the setting as a whole. Not all changes are great (primaris) but for the most part it is changes i wanted to see for a long while. I especially like this in regard to the Lions return, i have always liked the look and the concept of the angels being medieval knights/crusaders in space but how they actually act in the setting not only have turned me off them but have actively made me despise them. At least the inquisition have a sorta good reasons for all the heinous shit they do, while currently the black templars for all their problems are actually fighting the enemies of man and fulfill the fantasy of "knights in space" better than the legion that came from a home world where they had castles and fought dragons and monsters with mostly feudal weaponry. While for the traitor primarchs it finally makes chaos feel like a legit threat with actual engaging rivalries, history and personality between the primarchs on both sides. GW has tried and failed to make us care about Abaddon for almost 30 years. Players also never really saw him as a real threat and more like a mini boss before the real threat which was the daemon primarchs arrived which from day one overshadowed Abbadon since they never really went anywhere. Abaddon is also a boring character that most people feel are just protected by bs plot armor, the daemon primarchs already have rivalries we want to see on screen. Like Guiliman confronting Fulgrim again which last time ended in him being in a coma for 10k years. A new clash between Leman and Magnus, Perturabo and Dorn, Mortarion vs Khan and the list goes on. Not to mention Lorgar himself who is currently the grand architect for why the imperium is in its current state, was proven right in everything he said, was team chaos from almost day one (even if he didn't know it) and have the blessing of ALL the chaos gods. If anyone in 40k has an everchosen like position like Archeon in fantasy then it is not Abaddon but Lorgar. This also goes beyond just old lore, even new rivalries like Angron vs Ghaz has made people more hyped than anything Abaddon has ever done.

[@nour2736]

Yes

[@blakemelhuish1118]

No

[@nour2736]

YesYes

[@toeornottoe4951]

I appreciate that the last four seconds are their own chapter thingy dedicated to your joke.

[@stratigangames508]

I've always preferred the narrative of "rage against the dying light". Grimdark should have that tiny sliver of hope. Otherwise its boring and depressing. I'm in favor of 4 and 4. 4 Chaos Primarchs for the gods, 4 for the Imperium.

[@thepriorstone4064]

I just realized that 40k is basically designed to have an End Times event while Fantasy, while complex, had the good guys winning more often than not, and yet Fantasy was the one who blew up

[@CanonessEllinor]

The point about primarchs being attention black holes is so, so true. The more primarchs we get, the more 40k turns from a setting with hundreds of characters into the backdrop for their family drama. And because primarchs are inherently, biologically special, you can’t really elevate or introduce characters from other factions to be their peers. It’s those 18 dudes and no one else. Primarchs driving the plot also changes 40k from being the main course to being a sequel to 30k, which in turn means every character who wasn’t around for both gets reduced in importance. I’m obviously personally salty about that point as a Sororitas apologist, since my whole FACTION didn’t exist in 30k, but that development is poison for any faction that isn’t made up of immortals. Look what they did to Yarrick.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Yeah, exactly.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

You can EASILY make factions have things to match primarchs, Eldrad for example has been a far seer for longer than any one of then have been alive, elevate him into a minor psychic god, where he spends 80% of his new power to fend off slannesh, but the rest is freed up, Tau have already had commander pure tide, a general so cunning that he nearly single handedly made battleplans that made a situation where the tau were facing what was thought to be enough to wipe out there race, but was instead made to be not even enough to take 1 sept world, orks can literally have there biggest ork turn into a kroak, which have already killed one Primarch, Necrons can easily pull out a new robot that can one shot a Primarch, considering that they use tech that is as good if not better then the best stuff humanity ever had, let alone the best humanity could make thousands of years after there fall, tyranids can eat the corpse of a primarch and use that biomass to make a Primarch teir tyranid, dark eldar dont even have there faction leader playable, but he could easily be betrayed by someone and pumped full of experimental drugs that they thought would make him die in a few seconds but he perceives it as eternity, but instead makes him stupidly insanely fast, to the point where he can outrun eldar aircraft, Votann basically have no lore so they can have an equivalent easy, mechanicus can get a fragment of the omnisair or the void dragon, or the emperor, or all 3 depending on what GW wants to do with actually confirming what lore they have, knights just make a named character that found a dark age of humanity knight and bonded with it's AI without dying, allowing him to live for a super long time without dying and being very powerful, then for both the guard and sisters of battle, imperial saints or luving saints can be used, Yarric was already killed pointlessly, he can be resurrected, ideally with his ork buddy getting involved and now he's super super powerful, double so since the orks would now think he's the 'umies emperor, and think he's that powerful

[@alexmac851]

This isn't even really a point, because before the primarchs were attention hogs, you just had the champions of chaos/the grand masters of each chapter being an attention hog. It went from -I wanna see ahriman all the time, to -I want to see Magnus all the time. And realistically, they don't even affect book sales. In 6 years guillimen has had. What? 3books on him? out of like 50-60? Primarchs are cool but they spend most of the time off screen doing other stuff

[@grizzlyblackpowder1960]

@@alexmac851 hard agree, there is far too much hype and worry about characters that barely hit the novels comparatively, and on the tabletop are essentially just another guy. Sure, they are cool and gives all the sm zealots something to brag about, but now they have to face the mortality of their favorite primarchs in games, and watch as less and less lore come out for their faction as God tier heroes in this setting are apparently pretty hard to write for. It's like why they always write ork books from the perspective of just some guy, instead of ghaz himself. It's also why factions who had extremely powerful heroes in the past, rarely see players field those heroes. It's fun, I'm glad gw found an outlet that drags in new players. But it's not the scary end game thing everyone seems to think it is.

[@Holy_Moly69]

U can literally just say “the bugs took a chunk out if g-man and now they have a primarch tier super bug” boom done, next god tier threat for a xeno faction

[@dragonseatcheese8727]

Yes, but it needs to be handled better than GW handles most things. Here's a list: 1) It needs to advance the plot. We've been stuck in the same like... 30-100 years for like a decade by this point. It's fine for smaller scale things. Something like Mass Effect, modern Halo, modern Star Wars, or even the smaller factions of 40k. The Farsight Enclaves, an individual craft world or an Exodite planet. Because on those scales, 30 years is a LONG time. It's about 1/10 the age of the UNSC, and for something like the Farsight Enclaves it would take less than a fifth of that to disappear from the face of the galaxy if you put them against foe they couldn't handle. But for 40k in general? It's just stale. Especially now that we know what happened before. We don't need to go into excessive detail about every single little thing before moving on. The same character could be used across 700+ years of story telling. Cado Sicarius has a long time yet before he's feeble and old. But no. We're still on the same shit like we didn't get the point about what was happening years ago. And because the timeline is so short, it sort of becomes a crisis paradox. Where when a crisis happens every 30 seconds, you just get numb to it. It makes the stories a lot less punchy because the slow recovery of the galaxy isn't because it's a shit hole of mega-xenophobic species with occasional BIG events. It's because it takes so little effort for things to do big things. Therefore those big things stop being impressive. We're still on the same shit because GW doesn't want to move the story along if they don't have to. Because they're writing themselves into a corner and they know it. Just to be clear, this isn't even just an Imperium problem. The Necrons are waking up, have amazing tech, are the perfect counter to Chaos, their leader has returned, and they've done nothing. Except for Trazyn, but he's just stealing shit for the most part. 2) It needs to be well thought out and well planned. There needs to be an actual idea of what's going on. It's part of the reason that parts of 40k are so boring is that its stories are planned so poorly and the incongruency takes away from the story. Big threats? The Nids are such a massive threat that they can easily wipe out whole sectors. But they're written like a bad cartoon villain who just gets used as a joke or as a secondary antagonist despite how powerful they are. Space Marines can't figure out if they're mega buff Captain America in fairly good power armor that get easily killed by weapons that are sci-fi staples if they're not careful or literal demi gods. Custodes have been overwhelmed by half a dozen Chaos Marines at least once, but sometimes 6 of them can literally throw hands with an entire section of a Hive Fleet. So 36 Chaos Marines could theoretically do that at their peak? It took a whole chapter to do something similar. The Eldar are supposed to be powerful, highly experienced, and intelligent but badly wounded as a species. Yet they take heavy losses and don't operate like you'd expect a highly intelligent species to operate. Y'know. Intelligently. No matter what Pancreas says, the Elves are DUMB. Chaos on the other hand is supposed to be self destructive. Yet it seems like the Chaos Gods (which do NOT like each other) have no problem working together with cohesion the Imperium hasn't been able to pull together in 10,000 years despite being a mostly unified force. And there was that one book that a single Harlequin just walked up and smoked multiple Custodes. Something they quickly proclaimed an error. But that's a WILD error to make. The difference between the best Guardsmen the Imperium has and the worst, not to mind the best, Custodes is MASSIVE. That's a BIG fuck up. Basically my point of all of this is that all the different writers have no communicated plan, nor does there seem to be any consistent plan whatsoever from GW. It's also why stories are wildly inconsistent. Some books are great and go on my "sci-fi books worth reading again" shelf, while others are little more than the authors jerking off whichever Imperium sub-faction they like instead of writing good books that show off the awesome but under-appreciated parts of the Imperium and other factions that we just don't hear about. Star Wars has a similar problem. I call it the "200 gigatons at 10 light minutes" problem. We see one thing (Space Marines winning, the Imperium holding pretty well in general, Star Destroyers being normal ships) but are told another (200 gigaton per shot turbolasers with a total output of 8.6 teratons every second across the weakest Star Destroyer variant hitting a target accurately at 10 light minutes away, The Imperium is badly losing, the Space Marines do actually usually win, but it's not easy) and it just cheapens the story. 3) They have to expand the universe as a whole. 40k needs to focus on other things. The Imperium is massive, and there's more going on than Space Marines. A lot more. The Eldar need to start acting like a civilization that is trying to rebuild instead of a civilization trying its best to self immolate. We need to see that. We need deep dives into the Tau. Their philosophy and experiences with the galaxy. We need Chaos to be a background threat for a bit and have the Chaos Primarchs be reintroduced slowly and interact with groups outside of the Imperium in meaningful ways. So basically, they need to start writing it like it's Warhammer 40k, not just Ultramarine 40k.

[@shealdme]

I like the models, so I'd like to see more models. I hope to paint the Lion some day. I have the lore for my custom chapter i my head, and they may or may not be scary "dark angle" successors. Also im glad increase your stats with the algorithm you have a great channel with engaging content.

[@settratheimperishable7800]

I feel like loyalist primarchs coming back kinda has to happen because almost all of the traitors are still active and if they all come back at once the Imperium as a whole would die even faster. Not that I care mind you because I’m a Tau player but for the sake of balance and a fair fight it makes sense. It just sucks that the lore has so much of an effect on the table top that primarchs coming back makes the space marine game even more about space marines with all of the constant space new marine model releases.

[@CollinBuckman]

If any more Primarchs return I really want a Punished Dorn vs Ascended Perturabo matchup similar to how Lion and Angron were released together to face off

[@smugron1101]

The reason that the Phoenix Lords, the Hive Tyrant, the Avatars of Khaine and the C'tan Shards who should be equal to or even superior to a Primarch in power level according to lore lose/die so often is because there is god knows how many out there of the latter 2 and the first 2 can just come back whenever they die. The Phoenix Lords are always fighting and winning nigh every battle they join according to lore but in the pieces of media they appear in they lose because "muh high stakes" or "muh strong character". I think they should do something about this so that every other book won't have one of these dying because it kinda makes them not feel like the great threats they supposedly are.

[@TKUltra971]

Short answer: yes Long answer: yes, they were more than apart of the founding mythos of the settings. Seeing their hardened, shocked, panic stricken reactions to what the IoM has become is very intriguing. So far, Robute almost had a break down and wanted to escape when he first woke. The Lion had to come to terms with his own actions and deeds. What will everyone else do? We'll see.

[@ce5122]

no, 40k is not about the drama of oversized man children and how they personally view the setting. 40k itself is a setting not a story, you are the one that makes stories within it not gw.

[@bthanbeethan5590]

for Vulkcan there could be such a great plot of various ppl throughout the imperium doing all sorts of intrigue, battles, interacting with other factions etc to gather all the artefacts for his return. But as cool as it is i’m not sure if the payoff is as good as the journey

[@kandrs7445]

Things like this always make me question if I want to interact with the Fandom. Citing that "the imperium should be dying and nothing good should happen to it" from an *Eldar player* always strikes me as amusing. I would answer "well, you were first, so show us how it's done". I would answer that. But I don't want the Eldar to die. I don't want the Imperium to win even if I'm a Salamander. I don't want the tyranids to overrun, I don't want chaos to fade out, I don't want the T'au to stay a minor threat. I want the setting to be fresh. Things can't stay fresh if they always get worse.

[@stankolodin5586]

12:10 “Ultimately, it is the desire, not the desired, that we love.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche