Pandit Mallikarjun Mansur in conversation with Pandit K. G. Ginde in Mumbai on 8 January 1988

This is a unique recording, one in which we see two luminaries of Indian classical music in conversation each other. What comes across is not just the immense camaraderie they share but the enormous respect they have for each other. Mansur ji was elder by nearly 15 years and that’s why Ginde ji refers to him as Anna, a term used for elder brother. Knowing Mansur ji’s rather reticent nature, especially when it came to talking about music, Ginde ji took the lead and has spoken a lot more, including some of it on behalf of Mansur ji. It appears from the references in the conversation that in attendance were Ganatapaswini Mogubai Kurdikar and Baba Azizuddin Khan, themselves legendary figures in the lineage of Ustad Ghulam Ahmed 'Allahdiya' Khan sahib of Atrauli gharana.
The following is a brief gist/highlights of what transpires during the conversation:
Pandit K. G. Ginde recalls first having heard Pandit Mallikarjun Mansur sing ragas Gaud Malhar & Malkauns almost 50 years ago, while he was working in the theatre company and still learning from Pandit Nilakanthabua Alurmath.
Interestingly, from during his time in Lucknow under the discipleship of Pandit S. N. Ratanjankar, Ginde ji recalls having heard Ustad Badruddin ‘Manjhi’ Khan in 1936. Apparently, Khan sahib sang “Baare saiyyan…” in raga Nand and the laya-baddh nature of his gayaki made a deep impression in the mind of Ginde ji. Using this anecdote, Ginde ji requests Mansur ji to demonstrate the unique nature of Khan sahib’s gayaki through an illustrative rendition of raga Pat Bihag, highlighting the phirat which used to be Khan sahib’s specialty.
Mansur ji talks about both his gurus - Ustad Badruddin ‘Manjhi’ Khan and Ustad Shamsuddin ‘Bhurji’ Khan - and the fact that they were both steeped in musical knowledge. Despite being as absorbed as Mansur ji was, in his own assessment, he was able to take a small percentage of the knowledge of his gurus. He reminisces that learning from Ustad Manjhi Khan sahib used to be like a kind of an intoxication because of how beautifully he used to sing and the unlimited creative imagination he possessed. On one occasion, during which Ustad Azmat Hussain Khan was also present, he recalls both weeping at the luminous nature of the taar shadja and the haunting quality of komal rishabh used by Khan sahib in raga Bhairav. After the untimely demise of Ustad Manjhi Khan sahib, Mansur ji went to Ustad Bhurji Khan sahib at the suggestion of Sangeet Ratna Ustad Allahdiya Khan sahib. On his first visit, Mansur ji recalls singing raga Gaud Sarang with the Tanpura in one hand and the Dagga in the other hand for Ustad Bhurji Khan sahib and Baba Aziduddin Khan, both of whom wept because of the way in which Mansur ji’s gayaki reminded them of Ustad Manji Khan sahib.
Both Mansur ji and Ginde ji talk about the importance of the bandish in khayal gayaki and insist that the bandish represents the kernel of the raga and shows the way for raga vistar. Though this might be debatable from the perspective of other gharanas, it’s important to be able to see that they are both insisting upon doing justice to the bandish as the one thing that gives direction for the elaboration of the raga in a particular rendition.
Mansur ji talks about the fact that he was able to receive the gift of music through tremendous sacrifice, hardship and effort and that’s what has made him value it so much more. He recalls how he would often miss being with his family during the period of his ta’lim or the travels during his professional career but pursued it with a kind of a passion that is necessary for an artist to flower.

[@jayantapanigrahi4920]

Such treasured content. Can’t thank Irfan ji enough for uploading such priceless content. Shat shat naman aapko Irfan ji.

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Thanks a lot for the kind words of appreciation Jayanta ji! 🙂

[@hemantghayal7709]

Very informative. Thanks for the upload. It was interesting to note that Bandish is a critical part of raga. Even Tarana is a kind of BAndish, without meaning to th words.

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

There are schools of thought in Qawwal Bachche and Gwalior tradition which ascribe meaning into the syllables of the tarana - as a kind of an amalgam of the mantra used in apabhransh roop from Dhrupad; along with breakdown of syllables associated with Sufi zikr practices. 😊

[@shivprasadjoshi5280]

The two legends and my personal favourites in conversation.... beyond words!

[@arjunahadagali3491]

Pandith mMallikarjun mansur should have been awarded Bharath Ratna

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Indeed, he deserved it for sure! In fact, there's a poem in Kannada in which the imagery is that the Bharat Ratna is weeping that it never got the chance to adorn Pandit Mallikarjun Mansur ji's chest... 🙂

[@arjunahadagali3491]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 sir Pandith Mallikarjun Manusur was a Lingayath if he were to be a Brahmin he would had been awarded Bharata Rantna. Lingayaths have no loving nature. I am also a Lingayath

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@arjunahadagali3491 Hmm, that's an interesting point! I don't know how to respond to it...

[@hemantghayal7709]

​@@IrfanZuberi1980 I think the reason was that he blossomed very late in his age. He was not known till about 1970. He was known to others only for a quarter of century. By them many singers had established themselves. Also his circle was perhaps limited, mainly in Pune and Mumbai. He stayed in Dharwad all his years. Perhaps that was also a disadvantage, Also he did not have many disciples who would spread the greatness of their guru. Personally I feel he deserved the award. But again there are many who missed it.

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@hemantghayal7709 Indeed his circle was a bit limited compared to his more successful contemporaries such as Bhimsen ji or Kumar ji, though both were junior to him; and yes, his choice of staying in Dharwad till the very end may have something to do with it as well. But I don't quite agree about this blossoming late theory which a lot of people propound about him... Mansur ji was a musician's musician in terms of his musicianship, repertoire and performance - connoisseurs had to graduate to understand and appreciate him and his music commanded that level of immersion from his audiences! 🙂

[@pattarveeranna]

❤ Sir thank you so much for updating the valuable video moment..🙏🙏🌹🙏🙏

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

My pleasure! I'm glad you watched and enjoyed it. 🙂

[@dhananjaynaniwadekar3048]

" It appears from the references in the conversation that in attendance were Ganatapaswini Mogubai Kurdikar and Baba Azizuddin Khan" -> At 40:45 mark, you can see Azizuddin Khan Saheb and Kishoritai. To Kishori's left is Mogubai Kurdikar. The camera focuses on Mogubai at 41:25. And Pandit Ginde has talked a lot more than Mansur partly because when it came to talking about music, Ginde was more gifted at it. Same is true about Ashok Ranade's talks with Mansur and Gajanan-buwa Joshi.

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Thanks for your inputs! I went through the video with a friend and ensured to put a few highlights and gist of conversation in English for the non-Marathi speaking audiences. 🙂

[@kaushalskaloo]

Good observation

[@chidambardeshpande1716]

I am C M DESHPANDE from Dharwad, myself completely imbibe in the Gayana of raga Kafi Kanada & Sampoorna Malkauns/Ramdasi Megh Malhar etc.

[@mukundkhalatkar9446]

Thanks for sharing

[@pramodparanjpe6436]

Excellent discription....once again... congrats Irfan, keep up the good work 👌🏻👍🏻

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Thanks for the kind words of appreciation and encouragement. I will slowly keep uploading recordings... at the moment, I am uploading a series of mehfils I had curated in Delhi during 2012-2018 and premiering them every Tuesday evening. 🙂

[@onkardasbairag3021]

Grateful ❤

[@shekharshindepatil999]

नमस्ते इरफान सर..! दुर्मिळ व्हिडीओ पोस्ट केल्या बद्दल धन्यवाद..! एक विनंती आहे..! जर विदुषी गंगुबाई हनगल ह्यांची मुलाखत किंवा रागदारी असेल तर नक्की पोस्ट करा..! पुन्हा एकदा धन्यवाद..!

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Thanks for the kind words, Shekhar! 🙂 At the moment, I have no video of an interview of Vidushi Gangubai Hangal ji which isn't already available online... if I am able to dig something out of my archives at some point, I will certainly share it with connoisseurs here.

[@shekharshindepatil999]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 धन्यवाद सर..! मी वाट पाहीन..! तुम्ही संगीत शिकवतात का? जर हो.. तर कुठे शिकवतात..? तुमचा संपर्क क्रमांक मिळेल का..?

[@naveenbharathi]

Thanks Irfan. Pt. Mansur sang after this interview. There are few videos of that concert on KZbin.

[@krishnaswamy8137]

@Here is the playlist that features the ragas sang by Pt. Mallikarjun Mansur after the interview: kzbin.info/aero/PLD06770CC4CF77CDA It would be great if this is grouped into a single video..

[@krishnaswamy8137]

@naveenbharathi Thank You for sharing some of the rare gems that you have posted in your channel.. 🤝🙏

[@rmsh1956]

One of the rare gems. One from Dharwar and th other from Bailhongal

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

That's right! And I believe Pandit Rajshekhar Mansur also performed separately on the occasion. 🙂

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@krishnaswamy8137 Thanks for sharing the link. The problem with the interview recording as well as this playlist is that there's audio on only one channel. I have edited it to have audio on both left & right channels. Similarly, with the recital, I intend to upload separately, after editing the sound to give a better representation. 🙂

[@madhavdhekney8653]

अंगावर काटा आला.केवढे कष्ट घेतले ह्या महान तपस्वी ने.हे सगळे प्रचीतीचे बोलणे.नम्र नमस्कार.

[@akakirde9452]

Such a shame ustad manji khan was never recorded - have read gossip that he was to be recorded but passed away suddenly

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Indeed a pity! Also surprising that no recordings of Ustad Bhurji Khan sahib have come to light even though he broadcasted on All India Radio & Mansur ji recalled accompanying him.

[@akakirde9452]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 I remember seeing something about that on facebook - except it was a picture of Ustad Bhurji Khan in the studio You might find this interesting: www.google.com/books/edition/THE_INDIAN_LISTENER/4njkDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=bhurji Bhurji Khansaheb had sung Shuddha Kalyan and Chhayanat In most discussions of Bhurji Khan, it's always been said that he was a talented teacher but not much of a performer - perhaps that's why no recordings of Ustad Bhurji Khan are readily available; I'm sure some collector has a few recordings stowed away

[@aneeshkakirde6061]

​@IrfanZuberi80 not sure if my comment showed up to you, but I have seen "all india radio" timetables with performances by bhurji khan - chhayanat, shuddha kalyan, khat and bhairavi

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@aneeshkakirde6061 I didn’t see that comment earlier. Lovely! I wonder what happened to the recordings then. Ah well, having been in governmental institutions for over a decade, I can just guess… *sigh*

[@ramaraman1999]

​@@IrfanZuberi1980can we all work together to get the recordings from radio?

[@krishnaswamy8137]

Thanks a lot for sharing this Sir..🤝

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

My pleasure! It's a delightful conversation between two masters of Hindustani music and deserved to be shared with a wider audience. 🙂

[@krishnaswamy8137]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 Absolutely.. we are indeed blessed to listen to this interestingly informative conversation..Thanks again for sharing this gem...Special thanks for providing a brief write up in the description which is very helpful to people like me who are not familiar with Marathi..🫡

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@krishnaswamy8137 It's precisely for this reason that I added a gist of the conversation. Being someone not too familiar in Marathi, I watched this with a friend and made notes of the key points for the benefit of people like us! 🙂

[@krishnaswamy8137]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 Thanks again for your immense effort..🤝

[@artiste_onaquest]

Thank you for sharing this treasure! ✨

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

My pleasure! It's indeed a rare recording, deserving to be heard by a wider audience than just resting in a private collection. 🙂

[@artiste_onaquest]

Yes, can also mention the accompanist's names please?

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

@@artiste_onaquest I know that it's Pandit Balkrishna Iyer on the Tabla. Perhaps someone else might be able to recognise the Harmonium accompanist. In the concert that followed (which I will soon upload), the vocal support was by Pandit Rajshekhar Mansur and Pandit Panchakshariswami Mattigatti.

[@rajendradatar9580]

@@artiste_onaquest harmonium..tulshidas borkar Tabla....Balkrishna Ayyar

[@artiste_onaquest]

​@@IrfanZuberi1980Harmonium accompaniment is by Pt. Tulsidas Borkar ji

[@akhiljoban]

Would be indebted if someone could create English subtitles for this. I know it’s a huge ask - but it would be greatly appreciated!

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Yeah, that’s a huge ask for sure! I put the main points discussed in the conversation in the video description for this very reason. However, if anyone volunteers, I’d be happy to share the video with them for achieving complete English subtitles. Something similar needs to be done for Mansur ji’s interview by Dr. Ashok Da. Ranade.

[@akakirde9452]

8:40 mansur gives a glimpse into Manji Khan's gayaki

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Yes, and he illustrates it through Pat Bihag, right? 😊

[@aneeshkakirde6061]

@@IrfanZuberi1980 yep - added the timestamp so all the rasiks have easy access to the valuable moment :)

[@sanjaydixit7150]

K g ginde फार जास्त बोलले आहेत, बिचारे मन्सूर अण्णा

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Hahahaha... yes, that's true! But then again, Pandit Mallikarjun Mansur ji never came across as someone who enjoyed talking per se... so, Ginde ji has prompted things out of him! 🙂

[@rajendradatar9580]

Pt.Ginde shohld know how much talk......is it his lecture or he is taking interview of PT. Mallikarjun....

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Hahahah… I thought so too when I heard this the first time. However, once you get to know that Mansur ji was a man of very few words, then it makes sense that Ginde ji said a lot many things for Mansur ji to agree with. 😊

[@dhananjaynaniwadekar3048]

You can hear Baba Azizuddin Khan talk, in Marathi, at : kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2ezZGp3e6iSp5Y Baba Azizuddin Khan's video is rare. I hope a source which would archive these videos more reliably over a very long time span would get hold of that video by requesting that channel's host, and then host it as one more mirror.

[@IrfanZuberi1980]

Thanks for this link. I had not seen this video before. However, I do recall meeting Baba Azizuddin Khan sahib at the Allahdiya Manzil in Kolhapur in 2005, when I was working as a music consultant for a documentary film project. During the course of the interview, he also showed me Ustad Allahdiya Khansahib's bandish notebook, which I believe several people from the gharana have not also seen in totality! 🙂