Pankration Tested In The Ring

[@elenchus]

As a commenter below points out, modern pankration has virtually no relationship with ancient pankration, nor is it at least nationally Greek (Jim Arvanitis, the founder, although of Greek heritage, is an American). It is essentially a reconstruction of what Jim Arvanitis thought pankration would be by pulling elements from boxing, wrestling, judo, Muay Thai, and I'm sure other styles; in essence, it's a strain of modern MMA like combat sambo is. Apparently, ancient Greece's contribution to modern pankration was merely artistic depictions from the era and written descriptions. Suffice it to say, this is not an especially reliable way of reconstructing a complete martial art, but I don't think Jim Arvanitis would argue otherwise. I don't get the impression he's attempting to pull one over on us. Indeed, I sometimes hear of modern pankration being called "neo pankration" to demarcate this. None of this is to say or imply that pankration is "bullshido;" it clearly isn't. If you study pankration, you will become more proficient at fighting. But it is a slight warning to be cautious about the implied history of a martial art. Western boxing, for instance, is often said to come from Greece, but there is no evidence for this (indeed, this probably just arises from lazy translations from Greek, as if we were to say that wing chun was kickboxing in China, and then concluding that, based on that synonym, wing chun was more or less the same thing as K1). Likewise, the confusingly named Greco-Roman wrestling is neither Greek nor Roman, but rather French, or if you want to be very generous, broadly Western European. The moral of the story is not take anything at face value. I think we have done a pretty good job of developing a broad skepticism towards lots of Eastern martial arts, which is great, but it's not like Eastern martial arts have some sort of monopoly on mythologizing their styles or far-out claims of efficacy. I do want to reiterate that, while I have no problem calling out frauds, I have seen no evidence that Jim Arvanitis is one of them. I haven't seen any evidence yet that suggests he's trying to deceive people. He has always seemed to me very honest about how he has combined lots of contemporary styles, inspired by, in essence, Greek art, to create a very modern pankration. This is more a problem of onlookers who make an (entirely understandable) logical leap to assume that the style is truly ancient.

[@aluisiofsjr]

Jim Arvanitis is just an American Kickboxer with just no to little grappling experience. Not that Modern Pankration is Bullshido - as any hybrid martial art it have nice concepts. My only gripe is that people think the “Pankration” from today have any relationship with ancient Pankration. The truth is that actual “Pankration” is just MMA with a marketable naming. The other sport style called “Pankration Athlima” at least choose a little bit better name. If they chose the correct name like “Neo-Pankration” I would not have any problem with it.

[@Ghastly1]

It should be noted that the depictions on vases and such from ancient Greece show bare-knuckle practitioners so I'm guessing the real thing had a whole lot of palm strikes in lieu of punching.

[@josephsantoro3526]

stfu nerd I'm a spartan

[@TheLuconic]

Well said. In the end, we make our own pankration since the ancient one is long gone, even though very little info still exist today. Just train hard and work hard to stay honest. Too many frauds skip this and end up being the fool.

[@jmgonzales7701]

@@aluisiofsjr so old pankration is just mma?

[@benitoharrycollmann132]

A story of the first and only Olympic champion to win in pankration post humously: One famous tale concerns the champion Arrichion of Phigaleia, who fought his last pankration match in the 564 B. C. Olympic Games. During the bout Arrichion's opponent tried the klimakismos , leaping onto the champion's back and strangling him furiously from behind at the same time as he wrapped his legs around Arrichion's waist, locking his insteps behind Arrichion's thighs and squeezing. In a last ditch attempt to extricate himself, Arrichion hooked his right leg behind his opponent's right foot and threw them both backwards to the ground, breaking his adversary's ankle in the process. As they tumbled backwards two things happened at the same time: Arrichion died from his opponent's strangulation while the other contestant, screaming in pain as his ankle snapped, raised his hand in defeat. After a brief conferral the judges gave the laurels to the dead pankratist, and Arrichion became Olympic champion once more -- this time posthumously.

[@KingoftheJiangl]

These Greek guys were something else

[@FightCommentary]

Wow! That's crazy! I've heard that these pankration matches lead to deaths all the time. Wow.

[@cahallo5964]

​@@FightCommentarynot really all the time, we have recorded deaths precisely because they were unusual.

[@godfreycelada4602]

The earliest MMA, Pankration 💪

[@eslight1882]

correction , One of the earliest MMA , u forgot that boxing exists huh ?

[@anonimousuario2020]

​@@eslight1882 dijo MMA

[@felipe636]

Is it older than kalaripayatu?

[@anonimousuario2020]

maybe@@felipe636

[@DOOM_Player00]

You got it wrong. MMA is Mixed Martial Arts, while Pankration is a complete system of it own.

[@johngr1747]

Pankration was the first combat sport to combine striking with grappling into an official martial art, I believe. I know that India is also famous for being the earliest contributors but us Greeks brought official MMA to the world! Also the ruleset was closer to 90s MMA!

[@stoic-pankratiastis]

Exactly!

[@tatumergo3931]

I prefer the reconstructed ancient Pankration, which looks more like the depictions in ancient Greek vases.

[@hasanagic96]

Karate guy was a good grappler. His guard retention and the small wrestling exchange in the beginning were on point and not random

[@pangopod2969]

Against counter-strikers i suggest to use a lot of feints in the early combat, to overwhelm them with stimulus. It can be pretty exausting for their minds. Later in the fight they will have a slower reaction time and think that you're just faking your attacks, that's when you have to go for heavy strikes and long combos. That's my suggestion.

[@someman7]

"That's my suggestion." Yours or GSP's? ;)

[@pangopod2969]

@@someman7 GSP's + my experience in Muay thaï + Logic for the type of strike once the opponent exausted

[@pangopod2969]

@@someman7 But yeah it's kinda hard to have an effective strategy not already seen in a highly competitive sport like MMA X)

[@jobymanuel1353]

GSP said that the best way todeal with a counter striker is to faint a lot. It over loads their reactionary scenses, that can lead to the real attack landing.

[@DoubtingThomas333]

Feint*

[@Groomsman]

Pankration I think is similar to Kajukenbo, in that they’re both hybrid styles that pretty much make themselves mma. Obviously both martial arts aren’t the same in every way, though considering how old Pankration is ancient wrestling, boxing, and maybe even fencing help create the old style. It is believed that both Hercules and Theseus were the inventors of Pankration when they fought their respective beasts

[@johngr1747]

No they're not lol. Pankration was the MMA of the Olympics in ancient Greece.

[@SaftonYT]

@@johngr1747 Originally, yes, but it was largely lost to time and was "reinvented" with the modern brand name several decades ago by Jim Arvanitis. He basically combined elements of amateur wrestling, catch wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, Savate, and Judo into a new hybrid style, which he called Pankration in honor of his Greek heritage. This was before Vale Tudo got particularly popular, much less NHB/MMA. This "Pankration" style of Jim's ended up giving rise to a couple of different sporting rule sets under the name over the years. Some involve athletes in a gi-style jacket & pants with no head punches allowed, but head kicks & body punches are permitted and a points system implemented. There are some without the gi -- sometimes even with head punches permitted... but they can't use ground-and-pound. Others are for all intents and purposes a full-fledged amateur mixed martial arts bout with all that entails.

[@omari2306]

Literally my style, pankration guy on white short of the second fight got similar set ups to me. Loved to watch him.

[@toxicrayons1222]

Pretty interesting so see pankration

[@elenchus]

yes, the second pankration guy looked like karateka-esque with lots of stepping punches and a nice gyaku zuki there. Could be a coincidence or might have a karate background, it's not totally clear.

[@aluisiofsjr]

Like I said before, the "Pankration" from today is just MMA with a cool fancy name. Pankration doesn't exist since Christianism. Even worse is Pankration Athlima that is just TKD with very weak eastern gi grappling.

[@Victor_VPC]

You definitely noticed. he practiced karate 😉

[@aluisiofsjr]

Pankration (the real and historic one) doesn't exist anymore since christianism. What exist today is the Modern Pankration with totally different techniques, it just a recreation MMA mixed with eastern martial arts. There are some people making HEMA stuff with historic depictions that look totally different from the Modern Pankration.

[@johngr1747]

And punches to the face aren't allowed as far as I know

[@paulmaroli605]

@@aluisiofsjr wait if we don’t know what Pankriaton use to be fought how do we even know that it’s just a copy of MMA, after all from what we know Pankriaton was a very complete martial art with punches, submissions, kicks, etc. How do we even know we are not been influenced by our modern understanding of martial arts and looking at things which are similar and linking them together, after all there is no such thing as a punch or kick which is unique to a martial art there all very much the same what changes is just the way they are used

[@omari2306]

If the karate guy knew how to box backwards he would have stopped the pankration guy's blitzes in a moment, he was overusing them and also that made him overcommit, it's dangerous to do that in mma, controlled punches and a nice constant jab to create the set ups is a must! Good commentary!

[@OtraumaCare]

Ref said “Well if y’all just gonna punch each other in the guard, might as well stand up” lol

[@RedFoxGrappler]

As Pankration is now, it’s similar to Bartitsu, just the best recreation we can manage and in all actuality a newer martial art, but with Karate and Muay Thai, they’ve both had 500 and 2,000 years of trail and error respectively to become what they are today, for better in same cases or worse in others

[@shankarsatheesan6846]

Dude, what are you even saying? I'm a Karate practitioner. Karate in its modern form is barely a 100 years old. Karate in it's older form (Todi) is maybe 250-300 years old at best.

[@aluisiofsjr]

@@shankarsatheesan6846eap. The kicks from Karate came from Savate. Even Muay-Thai had a huge influence from Boxing in 100 years.

[@shankarsatheesan6846]

@@aluisiofsjr Yes you're right, however that's modern karate. Old karate had mostly low kicks.

[@tidal3153]

This commentary is hilarious 😂

[@dustinmichel7608]

Stalk forward without chasing, then throw long feints for patient counter punchers. Short jerky feint for the more jittery fighter. Counter the counter. Fient a jab to get a jab then counter cross or hook. Feint and get a cross, check hook or jab.

[@operaanimelover369]

Pankration definitely needs more love, appreciation, acclaim, and adulation. Just think how fun it would be for Ancient Greek Pankration to go up against Mixed Martial Arts sort of like old style vs modern style.

[@aluisiofsjr]

Pankration doesn't exist since Christianism, the techniques are long dead. The Modern Pankration is just modern MMA rebranded with a cool name.

[@operaanimelover369]

@@aluisiofsjr Fair enough. Perhaps, it would be cool to see how modern MMA rules contend with Pankration's ancient techniques.

[@aluisiofsjr]

@@operaanimelover369 , it would be really if we had such Time Machine. The only Pankration techniques depicted in relics are very few ones. I remember the guard like the Long Guard from Muay-Thai, and a kick similar to the teep also from Muay-Thai...

[@operaanimelover369]

@@aluisiofsjr Gastrizein which is the straight heel kick, tracheal grip chokes, liver punches, soccer kicks to the nape, hammer fists, and body slams are some of the techniques permitted in old-school Ancient Pankration.

[@ggarzagarcia]

Ancient Pankration guys would fight to the death. Some modern, well trained MMA guys would not survive AP because of how fierce and gutsy AP guys are

[@moimeme9861]

Could be interesting to see more of pancrat against Asian martial arts.

[@RobDegraves]

As a quick comment, one way to counter a counterpuncher is to throw fakes. IE make the other person think you will do something he wants to counter. That makes what he will do next more predictable. Then you can counter the counter of the counterpuncher.

[@mtbalot]

Good one, I just found about about pank this week. what is that?

[@rixter69]

Look the first fight from Eddie Alvarez in One fc. In "styles" before fight, the other guy write "Pankration fighter". And he ko Eddie (double champ in UFC) search that fight ;)

[@hankwatt]

Fantastic commentary as usual

[@granddaddy_funk]

You gotta feint against counter punchers

[@jackmuaddib3745]

Have a good jab, it helps to bait your opponent to throw something to counter. Good faints help too.

[@sonofromel]

Now I want Pranknation to be tested.

[@FM-kb3hf]

Pankration is an UWW style. It is a modern version of ancient martial art wrestling based.

[@godfreycelada4602]

Pankration has the similarity to Kudo.

[@omari2306]

4:57 he is a smart pankration striker, he feints a lot with his lead hand to land shots.

[@DarukaEon]

I actually dig this fighting style. It looks like MMA, but with extra layers, if that makes sense. Whenever there's a grappling or ground fight situation, there's something slightly different that he does with his legs. It's hard to explain. It's kinda like when Donnie Yen does some grappling stuff in Flashpoint. Edit: Noooooooooooo! D:

[@farkinarkin5099]

Always thought Pankration was MMA, but not so sure now as these two examples had much less BJJ or Ju Ji-Tsu. Got to go research it now. Either way, those are some devastating strikes.

[@erykmajer3591]

Just use feints if the guy is a heavy counter striker and if you place your shots just right you’ll be able to lay him out

[@YouCallThataKnife253]

I love Jerry's enthusiasm

[@emilianosintarias7337]

How can parnkration be tested in the ring? In the ancient olympics one one of the longest running champs was nicknamed mister fingertips (in greek) because he broke his opponent's fingers at the start of each match.

[@fatjeezussouthtexasoutdoor5244]

Have you ever seen the Thermopylae Team Combat fights?? Usually "team combat" is just silly, but I think TTC is on to something🤔

[@FightCommentary]

Yeah, I interviewed TTC back in the day. Search that video up on this channel.

[@fatjeezussouthtexasoutdoor5244]

@@FightCommentary awesome, thanks bro💪

[@napbuddy1754]

To fully utilize Pankration you really gotta build stamina and muscle weight so your strikes can hold maximum power as in Pankration you must never hold back

[@brotherlogicrmf2199]

Versus counter strikers, you have to flinch in order to counter their strikes.

[@johntay3831]

European And Asian martial arts just hits different. Europeans are more brute force, asians are more technical

[@elenchus]

@@TheCrusher72 is there an American style?

[@FightCommentary]

@@elenchus American kenpo maybe? Or anything that combines firearms and self defense ;)

[@elenchus]

@@FightCommentary Yeah, I guess gunslinger would be the American equivalent of like iaido and kenjutsu

[@Athuril]

Nice

[@Brykk]

In the first match, Karate guy shows a lot of muay thai and/or systema training.

[@siegfriedc2332]

The "pankration guy" in fight 2 looked more like a karate guy than "karate guy" from the first fight.

[@lyfe_of_lai]

Here's how you deal with counter-strikers: strike 1st and counter their counter. Or at least try to.

[@vincedgarvlogs]

The Karate guy is more of an MMA fighter, he knows how to defend and attack on positions that is exclusively learned through MMA training

[@connorperrett9559]

Turns out that when you're doing MMA and want to actually win all martial arts end up looking the same.

[@PazCristo]

To be a counter striker, then, is BiuBiu time!

[@fightingstreet23]

Second match was more prankation on the ancient side

[@bobleonheart9600]

I hate it when fighters go in and pound on a guy when it's blatantly obvious that they are out. I mean that first guy wasn't getting up from the hook but the Karate guy still went in and gave him 2 severe blows to the face despite the guy being unconscious. It might not be a popular thing to say but fighters should be erring on the side of caution given how easy it is to seriously mess someone up for life in these kinda fights. It's much better to see a fighter back off when they land a blow like that and see the guy go down.

[@napbuddy1754]

They are saying Pankration wrong but it's probably their accent

[@TreyNewman-m1r]

this is merciful compared to spartan pankration, eye gauging, neck snaping holds, and a mentality to fight only to the death, its no wonder the ancient Olympics banned them from participating.l

[@墨翟-i6u]

Is this morden Pankration???!!!!

[@WhiteWolfProject]

Больше похоже на борьбу нанайских мальчиков. Мне один древний грек показывал панкратион - он совсем не такой.

[@richardstorm4603]

With counters strikers, you throw lots of fakes. When they react to your fakes, you counter strike them, yourself.

[@FrankJeeves]

Modern Pankration is just MMA marketing name. Ideally, to be in the spirit, it would focus on western styles of martial arts such as boxing, wrestling with a few Savate kicks such as chasse italian or some forbidden kicks in Savate like chasse frontal with front leg. It's pretty clear that a few Savate kicks are decedents of Pankration kicks like the Gaztrizein. This video goes over old pankration pretty well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGPZi3WtnMd8nZo

[@nickelmanful]

Fakes and feints to draw out their counter strikes then you counter the counter.

[@AngelOvDeath4014]

Anik radio rahem

[@kidd32888]

5 mins round..

[@ComicusFreemanius]

He trained to destroy lol

[@geraroth9313]

regarding Greeks in Ukraine 2000+ years ago... lol... lol... lol... lol... lol... it is like saying Alexander the Great visiting Joseph Stalin or George Washington... lol... lol... lol... lol...

[@konellin189]

you are talking about the spartan way to end fights... panktation was there to kill your opponent with a few moves and move on..

[@grimbles39]

Prank Nation

[@Danetto]

pankration used to be a mix of boxing and wrestling, they played it in the first olympics when even the gods were participating

[@Danetto]

they also kinda invented frontkicks

[@muayboran6111]

@@Danetto I don't know about the front kicks, the Indian, Persian and Chinese were equally as old

[@Danetto]

@@muayboran6111 i have no idea what sort of ancient persian martial art u are talking about xd and as we all know kung fu was invented around 500ad when the buddhists came to china... also kalari is not exactly famous for using front kicks... nice try tho xd

[@jj987987987]

You can call them whatever you want, pano ration or karate there’s no difference. They all trained to fight the same, name are just for marketing