Pantheon’s Most Important Feature You’ve Never Heard Of

[@Redbeardflynn]

Want something to read? My book is on sale for 0.99c ! You can pick it up here amzn.to/3anLg9m By popular demand...the enemy swagger after murdering our group: 3:00

[@LUEcifer]

That cryptling strutting away after he dunked on your group was :chef's kiss: Interrupts are important boys

[@ESSBrew]

I been watching these videos and never wated to pay Pantheon, after following it for years. But i saw it on steam and said wth, Ill go for it. Now Im fully addicted.

[@tordb]

...wated

[@MinecraftMartin]

​@@tordb wat?

[@OmegaProjectZero]

Addicted to an empty bland world sure bro. Copium is a hell of a drug

[@MinecraftMartin]

@@OmegaProjectZero "You're wrong! You're not having fun!"

[@Zederok]

@OmegaProjectZero found the Ashes of Creation apologist/fanboy.

[@coryk564]

The game right now is pretty fun. Can’t wait to see what this thing looks like a year from now

[@austenngames6815]

the swagger of that monster walking away after mass murdering your group. savage. at 3 mins 15 secs

[@dupre7416]

Someday RBF can /swagger in that lousy cryptling's face.

[@duncanwallace7760]

The game with the most interesting and challenging quests was Secret World. If you didnt look up the answers those were very difficult and satisfying. Hopefully their system will include difficult to attain info and clues rather than the normal easy conversation choice based stuff many games have.

[@Alexander-ix2jp]

This is true, wife and I enjoyed tsw precisely for this reason. I remember a quest where you had to decode a morse code or literally look up info about a person online via webbrowser etc. Sadly, with the f2p reboot of tsw, this got changed and the quests were dumbed down substantially because it was too complex for the normal Joe. It's not the same as before anymore ...

[@NicholasBrakespear]

@@Alexander-ix2jp To be fair, those quests had a shelf life. Many of them encouraged you to use the in-game browser to research the answers... the problem with this was; search algorithms ended up directing you to the actual quest solution, because the puzzle/mystery was specific enough that searching accurately for it was the same as searching for the name of the quest.

[@Oldlard]

Some of those Secret World quests were the hardest content I've ever worked through.

[@The_Establishment_Is_Satanic]

@duncanwallace It was also very annoying to have to alt tab out of game and look things up. Its one of the bad points on Secret World, not a good point.

[@wanderin_aimlessly]

That game had so much potential, the first zone was so awesome.

[@donut_42]

3:16 That swagger freaking killed me.

[@Redbeardflynn]

haha YES, I'm glad so many people are noticing it.

[@z10n0v4]

This feels like an evolution of the Diplomacy/Speechcraft system they tried to implement in Vanguard. I liked that system in Vanguard, and I am excited to see how this plays out.

[@shaunbassett6335]

I actually enjoyed vg. it just sucked that once you got so far in diplomacy you had to wait to continue

[@william_coyne]

Miss-able content + slow, difficult leveling = wiki Yeah, this just means everyone is going to be following a wiki the entire time. The game is too punishing to risk missing things due to an incorrect dialog choice. This will not turn out the way they think it will. Like pretty much every MMO and action RPG this will just become another meta and the vast majority will have an almost identical experience. Most of us old EverQuest players enjoy a challenge but holy crap I have two small kids. I can't be re-rolling characters because I missed a quest. That's in addition to the exp loss and corpse recovery already.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Depends on your goal. Is your goal to min-max and be the best or the fastest and experience all the things? Or just to play when you have time progress and enjoy that experience when you have it? I played EQ in two very different ways: 2000-2004 I had no idea what I was doing and I leveled incredibly slow and missed out on 90% of the game. 2016-2020 I did every raid, every group, raided 2-3 nights a week. and went through every expansion on a progression server. Both were great experiences in their own way. I don't think I'll ever try to min-max in an MMO again, though.

[@MrAcorn911]

or we can move past the wiki and looking everything up era. Imagine reading the dialog then choosing your answer.

[@dustinvanwinkle5078]

Nah I'm just going to suffer with my choices much like in real life. I'm so over this look everything up era of gaming. It's actually pushed me away from multiplayers if anything.

[@pittyxl650]

Im so ready to play this. I gotta recoup from the holidays, but every update looks so good

[@frenchfriedtatersyoutube]

You inspire me to keep making videos, you're my favorite small channel. Thank you for doing what you do!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Oh that's amazing, thank you so much. All the best luck to you and your channel. It's a process but as long as you're finding it rewarding personally, keep going!

[@frenchfriedtatersyoutube]

@Redbeardflynn you are so kind 😭 thanks for the advice

[@frenchfriedtatersyoutube]

@Redbeardflynn honestly my favorite thing about KZbin has been the community. I rarely get mean comments or anything like that. It's really motivating

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@frenchfriedtatersyoutube They'll come, but brush them off. You can't please everyone. and some people are just angry. Community building is freaking awesome. I feel very lucky.

[@dupre7416]

Small channel?!? I think not. Red Beard Flynn is bigger than LazyPeon and Josh Strife Hayes combined*. * based on videos made about Pantheon.

[@katsiraeh6959]

Thank you for being an advocate of story in games. Having the choice being eventually brought in is great and personally lore expands the world.

[@thewintersteiner]

0:03 calling it before I watch, this I about perception!

[@Redbeardflynn]

Hahah yes

[@CheopisIV]

Good god, check the swagger on that lizard thing as he casually walks away after wiping your party!

[@Redbeardflynn]

I was hoping someone would notice that lol

[@Derek8487]

What did he even do? Looked like an aoe wipe spell lol

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@Derek8487 yep! So he does two spells. One freezes you, the next one is an AOE that you have to interrupt

[@einer1314]

I just really wanted a reskin of EQ, but perception and the mob ai were the two new things that sounded great. Last I had heard nobody was even working on perception, so this sounds encouraging.

[@MrCwhitt75]

My biggest complaint about this game is Trade Skills. There are players out there, and many players, including myself that love crafting. Why can't we have a toon that stays in town and only crafts? The trade skills linked to character level just isn't a good idea in my opinion, and others! Joppa needs to implement exp gains for crafting. I want a crafter that doesn't have to go out killing mobs!

[@Redbeardflynn]

I think this is the plan but requires more coding to get it done. Essentially a separate leveling system for crafting

[@The_Establishment_Is_Satanic]

@MrCwhitt Whats more annoying is the game forces you to craft, because of the idiotically high costs of basic gear on the vendors.

[@dupre7416]

@@The_Establishment_Is_Satanic You have choices my friend. 1) Kill humanoid monsters for weapon and armor drops. 2) Join a guild. You will receive hand-me-downs or freshly crafted gear. 3) Give in to crafting. It's a good for when you have only a short time to play or want a low-stress time-waister.

[@RavenCroftLoft]

@@The_Establishment_Is_Satanickeep in mind it’s probably that way to slow us down while they develop more things for us to do. Also things aren’t that expensive lol. Get a job bro 😂.

[@EB-bl6cc]

I'm on the fence with this one. On the one hand, I kind of see where you're coming from. On the other hand, I find it obnoxious in many MMOs that you can just make crafting alts and become a 1 person machine by having alts that cover all the professions, thereby limiting your need of other people. The whole idea of this MMO is to return to a time where community and needing other people was a thing.

[@GodHexe]

people are tripping saying the game looks ugly or the graphics look bad etc. I don't have it yet but just by watching this video you can see that you can just explore and do whatever. People get so used to "mmos" that tell you what to do and where to go all the time that they wouldn't be able to handle being dropped into an open world

[@lame1191]

usually the stuff you explore shouldnt look like a highschooler made it

[@googlespyingonme]

we re finally home bros

[@robertstallings1974]

This is one of those systems where it would be awesome if fans or players could submit a storyline or sequenced quest that the developers could review and then tweak to match game lore. It’ll keep idea fresh and probably speed up production by simply resourcing the players. Then the quest line can have an Easter egg to the players in some manner so people could know it’s there’s and yadadad da da

[@Redbeardflynn]

This made me think...there's some game somewhere thar allowed player made quest submissions. I just can't remember which game and I'm pretty sure they abandoned it. It might have been eq2 when they did the dungeon maker

[@arctorusmedia]

One thing that annoys me about open world games is when something happens and there's no source, it's just ambience. When I hear about a town being bustling and having people playing music, there better be people everywhere and some playing music. When I hear a frog, there needs to be a frog.

[@montezuma17900]

so when pantheons alakazam is written up theyre just gonna list the branches and subsequent keys and rewards, and i imagine in some circumstances it could be a meta to go for one branch versus the others. i dont really see how this will benefit players enough to justify 5xing or 10xing the development time of quests

[@Cyberdemon-9001]

There are some perception pings that appear in ur Chat log as well. Swing by the docks in thronefast. You will see one there.

[@Redbeardflynn]

I think they all do. You get the ping and pink text in chat.

[@VintageNarwhal]

I had one of these happen when I played earlier today. It went away after I did the first response but I was wondering what that was all about

[@xara531]

Wait, they only have 10 people? or 10 people working on quests?

[@Redbeardflynn]

10 people working on the game

[@xara531]

@@Redbeardflynn Ouch, I hope the injection of cash they got with the Steam Early access lets them hire a few more Devs, 10 isn't many for an MMO.

[@mujinn_]

I do believe it was supposed to be a skill everyone could level up and whatnot. Some people might get a ping and others not, all based on their perception skill level. Those who explored more would see more pings. I think this is a good way to do it. Mostly so that their could be things not found on the internet either because they were not found, or the few that have found it want to keep it a secret and rare.

[@DraekosTV]

I remember Joppa mentioning just that in the stream before this one. Today's stream he went all in and the stream right before that, he explained what you just said. If executed properly, this will add a level of depth unheard of. I actually *think* I remember Brad talking about that "leveling up" perception mechanic during one of his discussions (years ago), thus making it harder for content creators to just make a "one size fits all" guide on "what happens next". This would actually help mend the common problem in MMORPGs which is "content consumption" or the rate at which it's completely and/or revealed to the general public thus creating more mystery and discovery even years later. Best part is the devs can add to it as the years progress without having to "shatter" the world (like WoW) or keep piling on expansions (like EQ) Really cool concept but they'll definitely need help to execute this seamlessly.

[@oran1plays]

It's cool to see more of this in mmorpgs, even embers adrift has something similar this and it's a nice thing but you can also through your choices can get locked out of a quest entirely lol so pick carefully.

[@Redbeardflynn]

SWTOR is the closest I can think of with branching dialogues but it was still tied to a single narrative. I think there's a big difference between a world lore with quests that feel meaningful, little vingette stories, versus full on deep long narratives like SWTOR (or FFXIV and more recently WoW)

[@oran1plays]

@@Redbeardflynn Yea always enjoyed them in SWTOR but it did all feel a bit samey at some points just an illusion of choice, still fun anyhow to have in a game.

[@cameltj908]

You can make the replayability argument because by itself that fits, but in a game like pantheon where its a grind and huge time investment to advance your character, todays player is going to be pissed off that there's no way to go back and "fix" a decision they made. Think about your experiences in real life just going to a big box store to buy a product. Do you not take out your smart phone and google reviews of the products to try and discern the best choice so you feel good about your purchase? This is what we've been conditioned to do not just by games, but by culture. We want to learn from the choices others have made so that we feel we are making the best choice. Todays players almost feel slighted or wronged if a game makes these kinds of decisions to create missed opportunities. A game that does this very well is the souls series and Elden ring or blood bourn. But the replay factor of those games is more logical because you have new game plus or you just role a different flavor character. Its not the same time commitment to get the "achievements".

[@ryuno2097]

We live in the day and age of the internet. There will be a website where they've compiled all the quests, choices and rewards. All you have to do is just search for it and see what's the outcome.

[@ExtraHecticana]

That cryptling has swagger

[@TheDrnknmnky]

this extreme exp loss when you die just completely destroys my desire to explore anything and will probably make me never play this game again

[@Redbeardflynn]

Leave feedback on their discord. The game is still in EA.

[@MrEevilways]

The exp loss really isn't that bad. It's 5% and rezzes can give exp back. I was in Halnir Cave last night and we were cursed and I kept dying on pulls (or bad luck causing wipes). I died about 10 times and still managed to get a level. Even without a rez, a few kills and you have most if not all of your exp back.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@MrEevilways I think where the exp loss feels painful for players most are: - Pullers who die a *lot* - Tanks ^ - Breaking into dungeons like Halnir for the first time. exp rezzes giving 0% or 25% at those levels. It'll even out I imagine but its an adjustment for people. I'm still in favor of corpse recover giving back 25% of your exp loss to give players some agency. It used to actually kind of be this way with spirit shards in pantheon but that was removed over a year ago.

[@MrEevilways]

@@Redbeardflynn I will say, about 5 of those deaths were me pulling as the monk and my FD failed me 😁

[@Renzuken3]

YEah you need to use your brain...cant just face roll like in Wow. When you try a dungeon and get killed like 3 times in a row it's frustrating. But then you find a great group that steamrolls the dungeon and suddenly your making a TON of XP and you pray the group don't end ....afterwards you get everyone's name added to your friends list because you know everyone was on point and was skilled with their class, made smart pulls and used their CC abilities perfectly. also makes finding guildmates even more rewarding because when you call in the Boys on Discord and everyone shows up to help you it's what old school MMOs like Ultima Online, Asheron's Call and EQ were about....overcoming that challenges with friends and strong sense of community... WoW plays like a dream MMO but people are like robots just ignoring everyone because they dont need anyone and death is an annoyance... it's funny how that XP loss forces you to focus up and play your very best. It forces you to respect the danger in the world and pay attention...I died in goblin caves a bunch of times back to back from respawning on top of us and stupid Mob Pulls and lost a whole level. I was pissed and did not touch the game for a few days...I came back and got in one of the BEST XP farming groups ever and we grinded out two full levels and got my shaman some new gear...it's a good game when you respect that death is serious and you cant solo everything by yourself...

[@punymagus]

Everytime I went into Halnir Cave I died so, I stopped doing it... ;-; Edit: About the system, I don't think it's as complex for a small team as you think, on the contrary. It can get complex if they create long conversations with NPC's with many choices in a row or if you have a reactive group of NPC's in your party that's constantly reacting to your choices, but I don't think this is what they will do in Pantheon. I assume they will make simple dialogues that present information and gives you one of two flags. Instead of thinking of it as a bunch of conditionals, think of the flag as a note you add to a notebook so, when you find a new ping or choose a dialog option, you add a new note and this note will become the most important. At this point, the previous notes are not important for the developer anymore because, when they add a follow up to this note, all they have to check is if you have the last one and, if you do, you'll be able to se a new ping or get a new dialogue from an NPC, which will give you a newer note and so on... So it's amore emergent way to develop a narrative. The reason I know it's not so complex is because I came up with a similar approach for a traditional roguelike I started making in 2018 and, the reason I made it this way is exactly because it's easier than making complex dialogue options. You don't need long conversations with NPC, you present new information and either add a new flag or not.

[@Redbeardflynn]

It's pretty rough, but if you can get a decent group together the entrance is fairly safe. It's just usually camped in my experience.

[@punymagus]

@@Redbeardflynn I think finding a decent group is the tough part, I mean as getting people that are used to playing together instead of randoms. But I plan to get back there after level 20 (currently 18) for the experience, because the atmosphere is really nice.

[@Blasphemy999]

Will there be more languages ​​in the game?

[@Redbeardflynn]

I believe it's something in their long-term plans but no idea how much they'll be able to localize.

[@bobterwilliger007]

Whole game is scary... Minding my own business and boom khybera from out of nowhere... I love it.

[@cyr4062]

I Love this game.

[@xofcenter5576]

It's a great idea and game mechanic. It will also require a tremendous increase to content creation, curation, and maintenance. For a cash strapped team with a delicate business model, it's very risky. It would be wiser to first focus on maybe applying models to the mobs still roaming around shaped like big 💊 s.

[@AaronQ64]

If they dont make it unique the game dies, have to take big swings if they dont want to have the game just die on release.

[@Redbeardflynn]

The biggest problem with game dev like this is they're *all* priorities. And they all need money. Art team, writing team, coding team. The more one gets pushed to the side the harder it is to get it back. What this stream demonstrated from Joppa is the system is there. Just needs the writing. My best guess (not confirmed) is that the flags are probably tied to only classes and such but flagging in general is just good to have in MMOs to increase what you can do versus "physical" keying (think PoP in EQ or multiple instances of internal flags in WoW)

[@AaronQ64]

@Redbeardflynn Yep and its on leadership to plan, cut and finagle it to be the best final product. Maybe they have to cut a system or two until later down the line. Fans need to look at this with hope but also understand the realities. What we all should hope for is a unique and very well designed/fun core that draws a playerbase then let the team really focus on additional fun/content. Im encouraged by what I see now but we need to see more and they need to clean some things up. Pantheon is the perfect example of why teams dont/ shouldn't go public too early. At least its not star citizen whose business practices are atrocious for a game that will never be finished.

[@xofcenter5576]

@AaronQ64 Not releasing too early or too late is the key. I don't build games, but have been leading teams that build complex consumer financial apps for many years. I know well the dance and tradeoffs. The challenges of a team that's languished for years. This is why I warned these guys that 1. A release is a release. You will be judged harshly by your critics no matter the label (EA, pre-launch, alpha, beta). Those terms don't matter to the consumers. Just to the insiders and those adjacent to the insiders. 2. Never overpromise anything you can't deliver, ever. 3. Put most of your efforts into completing fundamentals to MVP before teasing new features. I feel the team has only recently really become effective and the question now is if it's enough of too little too late. Soon, the many lower 20s players who came in through steam and who give zero f's about the storied history will run out of interesting content. Thus the reason they're making vids about the 💊 mobs floating about: they're getting bored. Soon they'll start making their own entertainment by metagaming, sploiting and trolling others. That will distract the small team even further as people then cry out for more and more moderation and community tools. My point being, 20 people can't handle this while completing content and chasing new features. They have to ruthlessly prioritize now that the game is released. Also, the infra costs will catch up soon. They need to charge a minimum of about $40USD/mo to break even on infra at scale if they're going to avoid cash shops and microtxns. I'm yet to see this level of professional maturity from the team, but they are headed the right direction.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@AaronQ64 I dont think Pantheon went public early because it wanted to, nor SC, nor AoC...etc. Its a symptom of a genre that has been largely abandoned by investment without the caveat of aggressive monetization to quickly recoup investment from whales willing to spend tons of money. Going public as early as these projects did was necessity, not choice.

[@mastamatsta]

I feel like they will need to add more weight to the quests, right now the quests are negligible and don’t have enough of a reward to make me want to do them, tying this to that system would be amazing, but only if the rewards for doing said tasks feel rewarding.

[@dustinvanwinkle5078]

They're all mostly placeholders for the sake of having quests available atm. In the full release quests are more meant to progress standing with a person/group

[@charlesminckler2978]

I played during seasons. I am waiting for perception to come back.

[@marcusfromoz7066]

Thanks for the explanation mate.

[@lame1191]

basically we just neeed to wait along time to play so theres guides and you arent being spit at by wasting your time

[@eqrommel]

Cryptlings and Crypt Fiends are rough...wait till the guardians...

[@PolPot-s3o]

This "feature" looks like it could be really tedious. Having a group of friends and someone answering wrong and not getting the quest would suck.

[@Redbeardflynn]

It should be noted this is separate from your usual questing and this is not the primary function of leveling (that's still killing things) This is there more for the people who *want* it.

[@PolPot-s3o]

@@Redbeardflynn cool, it'll be interesesting to see what they do with it regardless.

[@tygarner7731]

Is it similar to DDO?

[@Redbeardflynn]

I wouldnt day so really. Ddo is a pretty unique game.

[@tygarner7731]

@ you know what I’m saying tho, like as you progress, there is a voice that says how you are feeling or what you see? Hard to explain. I’d be in favor of a voice over telling you thinks like a GM. That make sense? For the “ping system” if I’m understand what that system is.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@tygarner7731 not voiced but kind of yes? So ping 1 may lead you to ping 2. The one I was describing for the hobgoblins tells you to seek the steps to the north then there's another ping and another and another until you get to the hobgoblins

[@JD_Mapes]

I'm really curious as to the direction of this game. I have been following it since announcement and of course, as an EQ/EQII lifer, I want a successor but does anyone else feel like this is just a suped up version of EQ?, I am currently in the Alpha 2 Phase 2 for Ashes of Creation and am absolutely blown away by the mechanics, combat and gfx...then I keep checking out Pantheon and it feels like im going back in time 20+ years. Am I missing something? I want Pantheon to win, but what does Pantheon have to offer in it's current state that leads me to want to play it over AoC? A game that is not even fully playable yet. I'm not crapping on Pantheon, I am genuinely curious as to the draw. Is the current art style, movement, combat reflective of it's intention? It just looks very P99 to me.

[@Redbeardflynn]

My honest answer? If you're enjoying Ashes of Creation, Pantheon's gameplay may not really fit. Ashes of Creation is a very very pvp heavy mmo that relies on social-engineering more than curated content. They're aiming at different audiences. Ashes is a mob-grindy game (having played it myself) where enemies are grouped up and slaughtered en-masse to get to the engaging part of the game atm: pvp. Yes they have elites and such but its an incredibly different style of PvE which feeds into the PvP. Much more similar to games like Archage, Shadowbane, and UO than EQ. That's about gameplay though. If you're wanting graphics/animations - both games are WIP, Ashes has a bigger team and more money to put on polish so I'd recommend sticking with Ashes for the prettier package. That or Throne and Liberty which also has some incredible animations and gfx.

[@JoshuaKoitzsch]

Cool, plane of power flag system, sounds will never have bugs

[@RavenCroftLoft]

I’m not sure I can see this working due to the amount of content needed for every questgiver. Unless these options are just talking, delivering different items or killing a different mob. I don’t see how the system would be worth the time investment as players wouldn’t even notice unless these options were really narrative driven and voiced somehow. As cool as this sounds in theory it’s not going to add much to the experience. I doubt this will pay off or be appreciated but we will see…hopefully one day anyways.

[@GoochMcTaint]

This should be the last system to be added. Get the base content out and then expand on it.

[@Redbeardflynn]

This is content as well. And the system is there already. Just adding the content. Well the system outside of the keeper role which yes that if they add it or not can wait. Though the tome i think is still a good idea, just simply an expansion of your current quest journal

[@NiccoH34db4ng]

But 40€ is too much for a game that still miss such important feature after this long development time. For me the main problem of these new MMORPGs(I put also Ashes of creation in this argument) is that they expect people to pay for being beta testers,so something that once was a payed job now is the opposite,you pay for work.

[@Redbeardflynn]

It's a crowd funded mmo, without a publisher. It doesn't have the funding to be in closed development.

[@darkwulf2k]

I see your arguement, but i'll counter with that I have nearly 200 hrs in the game, of which I have enjoyed almost all of i. So, in turn I feel I have gotten my monies worth even if its not a complete game. 200 hrs of entertainment, of a game I been waiting to get my hands on for years, and that 40 goes towards development, to a dedicated team that cares. I'll take it. I havent had this feeling in an mmo since probably 2013 when i first stepped foot into FFXIV ARR, and even then maybe 2004 when i started wow, or quite possibly 2000 when i started playing EQ for the first time. To have that new sense of wonder and curiousity to go explore isnt hindered by the limited content, it just means there is more to come for me to be excited by. I am bad at math, but 40 dollars for 40 hrs is a 1 to 1 ration, for me this is well beyond that.

[@MrEevilways]

This argument has actually gotten kind of tiresome (not against you, just in general). You're not paying to beta test. You are buying the game itself. You get the benefit of playing before it releases. You're not buying beta now, then when it launches you buy the game. Playing a game in an alpha or beta state isn't for everyone, and that's fine. People need to stop acting like they're buying an alpha/beta game though when they're buying the game upon release. Games offer a head start for preorders. I've never heard someone say, "I can't believe you're making me pay $40 (or whatever) to play head start!" Yes, this isn't head start. But you're getting likely 2 years of playing the game before launch. If they go with a subscription at launch, you will have had 2 years of "free play" compared to a common 1 month if you buy the game post launch.

[@NiccoH34db4ng]

@@MrEevilways But if they'll go for the sub model then you're screwed if you don't want to pay.

[@MrEevilways]

@@NiccoH34db4ng It's pretty much guaranteed they'll go sub model. That's part of my point. You're buying the game for when it launches, but until that time you're playing subscription free for 2+ years. Say they do $10 subscription and manage to release in exactly 2 years. You just played for 2 years and did not spend an additional $240. (Or if you want to remove the cost of the game $200)

[@toroddlnning6806]

I dont understand the concept some ppl talk about it being more enjoiable to play without map. Even if you played an mmorpg based on neandrethals they would still carve some type of map onto som deer hide or whatever, with charcoal...

[@toroddlnning6806]

seems like developers took an easy shortcut with a lame excuse

[@Redbeardflynn]

Not no map. No radar minimap. Different things. But if you find that it's not for you that's totally fine but as hard as it is to believe, yes, many of us prefer mot having a map because it's more immersive

[@mikeythebold8299]

Me wishing i had PC instead of expensive console. =/ I miss being a MMO nerd. Console MMO just doesnt scratch the itch. They are too easy and all about rushing through low lvl to get to end game

[@Redbeardflynn]

In the past I would have suggested that console mmos would lean that way because of the lack of socializing due to not being able to communicate but now with voice chat...It'd be great if more mmos could be ported to consoles.

[@godsfavoriteant9293]

I hate this (branching quests), it means that doing quests blind and without a guide will punish you compared to people who will use guides. It works in single player RPGs because you can just reload to a previous save if you don't like the way a dialog went. In shorter RPGs you can just playthrough again.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Branching quests doesn't mean there's necessarily a "right" and "wrong" answer. The whole idea would be exploration not trying to mind max. I should have also made it more clear but this does not replace questing. Regular quests still exist

[@godsfavoriteant9293]

@@Redbeardflynn people will min/max as long as there are stakes involved. Without stakes, a branching decision tree feels false and pointless. ToR, which you brought up, tried this, but the decisions really didn't matter in the end. I think it is something that works well in single player RPGs but does not translate to MMOs. If it is just for dialog options, then no one will care outside the very tiny minority that actually cares about the story. Yeah I know, it is weird that people will play RPGs and don't care at all about the story and lore.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@godsfavoriteant9293 yes but *you* dont have to min max. The stakes are the story and how things play out. And there are plenty of stakes you can add like faction hits. It's a balance. How much of the game gets locked behind decision making but that balance is no different than how much you lock behind group content or lock behind raid content or levels or faction or class quests.

[@godsfavoriteant9293]

@@Redbeardflynn content locked behind ability is fine. Content locked behind A because I chose B is not. Granted if it is just story elements that are missed out on, then fine, that is pretty meaningless really. Eventually someone will post all branches of the story online. But losing out on access to raids? That would be a bad decision.

[@RonOnTheWay]

Red, this feature may struggle with guides. People will just choose the best option.

[@Redbeardflynn]

That's not the point of the feature though. Everyone will always min max. The featuee is immersion

[@jonathanhughes8679]

I realize that the game is heading towards a very group driven game and I have 0 problems with this. But, if you’re in a group you should just be harder to kill. I don’t have much issue with the ping thing, but, the game is going to need to stand out as an EQ advanced. Graphics have improved a lot. But I’m curious about something, if no addon packages then if not then why not add in an AI voice over thing like you can download for WOW. 10 people??wow so I guess that they are building this to show off for investors..

[@TheRealGreybark]

I am not a fan of the "Choose your own adventure" game play in my MMO. Those choices make sense in an RPG that is really just a solo player offline game with a save that can be reloaded and a new choice made differenlty, quickly and easily. I am not going to say it cannot be done well, but I am very sceptical at this time. With a 10 man team, this is biting off more than they can chew. Get more of your core game playable and functioning correctly.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Unfortunately if they abandon it now itll be abandoning a core tenet the game was sold as having from the start. The game needs to be more than a monster slayer simulator to meet the expectations they set. This is a big part of it. And I'd actually say most of tha core game is functioning correctly. It's infinitely playable from a combat perspective. Just needs more. Perception is the most underdeveloped part of the game imo

[@Zealbourne]

Comparing choice mechanics from a reloadable SP game with millions of hours of shared info online, to an indie MMO is not quite the same UX and doesn't translate well. How many people would be upset at gameplay if the missed something just but playing BG3 and was never given a reload or a new game to experience the rest. It is because they can they enjoy the feature, something an MMO cannot do, reload. So, missing something could be minor, but it will also be devastating to a characters development, eventually.

[@Redbeardflynn]

This is also generally the same argument used against timed events in mmos though. Or raids that people level out of. It's ok to not do every single thing in an mmo. Even bg3...no one's really done every single quest in every single way despite being able to reload.

[@art7259]

I wish theyd quit worrying about features like trying to do branching dialog and ya know, finish and polishbthe core features. I love the game. I hate how so many systems are just unfinished or horrifically implemented (alchemys insane grind for pots that are fairly useless, the bank system being broken and tedious, countless glitches)

[@Redbeardflynn]

This is a core feature though, from the kickstarter days. It's the most underdeveloped feature in the game currently. Don't get me wrong I get what you mean, there's tons of work to do but this needs to be part of it imo. It's currently the most unfulfilled promise of the games core concepts

[@chuckgrumble5440]

joppa is mastermind

[@frank8959]

oh boy, missable content in a game with a 500 hour grind to max level? Guess I'm gonna not touch anything until someone puts out an "optimal quest path" guide

[@Redbeardflynn]

You already have missable content. You can't level in every area because there are overlaps.

[@frank8959]

@@Redbeardflynn there is nothing stopping you from going to explore and kill mobs in any area for loot even if you've outleveled the place, or go back to solo lower level group areas

[@pablob6037]

if (condition1) { // block of code to be executed if condition1 is true } else if (condition2) { // block of code to be executed if the condition1 is false and condition2 is true } else { // block of code to be executed if the condition1 is false and condition2 is false }

[@jonathanhughes8679]

I like the pings,

[@magnumsphere8118]

this is going to trip a lot of people FOMO feeling

[@slydog75]

So they make different choices with an alt.. This is one reason why people are still playing BG3.

[@Redbeardflynn]

^ Exactly this.

[@Redbeardflynn]

FOMO feeling is pretty normal in an MMO. Raids, Groups, timed events, leveling, items. It's all in a sense driven by FOMO.

[@OmegaProjectZero]

This game is eq1 free to play copy pasta smaller version, but it costs 40 bucks . What a rip off . Grind in a stupid cave for the first 2 hours . Then get out in the world and there’s 1 small town . Borrrring.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Thats...functionally not true 😅 you realize there's 6 zones yeah ans that it's still in early access and active development?

[@OmegaProjectZero]

@@Redbeardflynn sorry yes 6 zones, maybe in 10 years ill try it again

[@Redbeardflynn]

@OmegaProjectZero sounds like a plan! I might be lvl 20 by then

[@PlacentaBurrito72]

Awww man, that Lizardman just Tupac-walked you!

[@sidraket]

you dont want an mmo to be 'replayable', its supposed to be perpetually playable. no end from which you start over again from

[@Redbeardflynn]

Except they are. Everquest and classic wow are prime examples. Progression servers and classic wow and season of discovery are all essentially replayabilty. As is making an alt. Seeking infinite growth if your mmo comes with a built in pitfall, the start of the game becomes no longer playable. That's how you get purchasable content skips and level boosts. Replayability in an mmo elongates the lifespan of content

[@sidraket]

@@Redbeardflynn wow shouldnt be used as an example, even classic is not a real mmo its an elaborate lobby. several mmos had no problem with this scheme. you had games like lineage1/2, baram with infinite/near infinite progression. EQ did something kind of like it with AA, and daoc also with realm points. People will make alts if they are unhappy with their current class. this shouldnt restrict people enjoying their class to run out of progression on it. I consider massive numbers of alts to be a sign of failure in an mmo, the game is not fulfilling its job as being a reality replacement/simulator where you become your character in a virtual world. You wind up just being some guy with a lot of characters in a game.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@sidraket mmos are first and foremost games. Not reality replacements. The start of mmos was basically "what if rpg, but online?" That's what Ultima online was that's what everquest was. Wow was made by everquest players (and yes it should be mentioned in mmo discussions) Simulated worlds are more like what meta tried to make. You do not need to spend all of your time in an mmo for the game to be good. It's ok for it just to be a game you play.

[@sidraket]

@@Redbeardflynn simulated worlds was more in line with the early mmos. an rpg in fact is built on the idea of simulated worlds, even early d&d was ran more like a dynamic world with different players running around and a synchronized time cycle the DM kept. MMOs were all encompassing reality replacements for a lot of people, the game was their social hub, when they were bored they were standing around in the game instead of doing something else for example. This is the nature of the mmo addiction. WoW cannot generate that. WoW was designed by people who liked the wrong parts of EQ and stripped out the parts that made it good. It should only be brought up to point out what not to do: fast leveling, solo focused, instanced dungeons, an emphasis on consumable content. This is why i call it a lobby, its a dead world and was from the start and its purpose was just to move people from quest hup to quest hub or instance to instance, raid to raid. right at the beginning people tried to play it like a real mmo so it felt ok for a few months, but quickly the game trained it out of people. Players conform to the game they play, ultimately optimization seeking is the heart of any game, the whole point of a game is to try and figure out how to win. This is why it is incredibly important that they be designed properly, the players will find the best way to play that game and they will play it. Every mmo community then is the result of the games mechanical design. The goal of early mmos was to create virtual worlds. Before the term mmo was even coined they were described as such. I personally discovered the genre in 98 looking for a graphical version of the chat rooms i used to hang out in where people would roleplay their actions. And what did people do in these games? mostly stand around and chat. In later mmos like EQ or ff11 what really helped them? the downtime in groups so people could chat. This sense of community and existing within a world where you have a place combined with the actual games objectives/power growth created the combo that addicted everyone. An mmo needs only two things, a number that goes up and makes you feel stronger and people to do it with. This is why ideally the number would just go up perpetually. Modern mmos with their content-focus gives only distractions and amusements that get old. If the number goes up nice you can grind the same spot for months. This game has nailed group dynamics, now all it needs to do is foster the sense of a home. If it treats itself like a bunch of experiences instead those experiences will get old. The best experience is the one in the mind as you imagine yourself getting ever stronger and showing off your worth to people. In some sense grouping exists so players can show that they are good group members, thus signaling their value to others they can accept it themselves and obtain security. Such is the nature of people who live in fake realities.

[@oligarchy-usa]

I would prefer PvE more like Vanguard & Dark Age of Camelot than Classic EverQuest.

[@Redbeardflynn]

In what way? Combat? Questing?

[@101mazz]

Bam...first. Thanks for your vids man. Love seeing your take on things.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Haha well done! Thank you so much.

[@LrdElderon]

I'm excited to play..... But over 10 years and it's still aloha, maybe beta. Are they competing with Star citizen?. I would expect this to be 100% done and fully polished

[@Redbeardflynn]

Expectations in general need to be tempered for indie projects. But that's not to say they didn't make mistakes that have elongated time and pushed things back. They have. That said. Throne and liberty took 12 years 😅

[@LrdElderon]

@Redbeardflynn i try, i know it's not a big dev team. Did the lead person in charge die? I thought I read that somewhere... I'm just super excited about a good MMO, and it feels like forever. I think EverQuest was 3 to 4 years . I'm really wishing them well. I really really want this to succeed and we have a good MMO.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@LrdElderon yes they've actually had 3 losses during development sadly. Including the projects starter: Brad McQuaid.

[@LrdElderon]

@@Redbeardflynn not to thumb up deaths. But I appreciate the response. I'm really hoping this goes well. EverQuest when I first played was magical.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@LrdElderon same. And yeah just to reiterate none of that means thr dev team hasn't made mistakes. They definitely have. Just some perspective

[@philippevalois4826]

Its the samething for me friend

[@marzix427]

While this system is cool for an RPG, in an MMO where you are playing with friends, i think is not needed. OKay, my friend got the quest and I didn't, it just feels bad. I don't need this in my MMO.

[@Redbeardflynn]

I think it's incredibly needed to make the world feel alive. Quests in Pantheon aren't your method of gaining exp, they are not the core process of vertical achievement. Seeing your EQ avatar, did you and your friends do all the same quests in EQ? No, some were class locked, some were ridiculous hard, some were tradeskill locked, some required raid drops. It's very similar, just with more lore/storytelling which is very important.

[@paulus4539]

This game looks amazing and I'm dying to give it a go. Big time FF11, Wow classic and FF14 player. Only 2 things preventing me from jumping into this: 1. Periodic wipes? This is a game players will invest hundreds of hours into. Surely you can't just wipe the servers every time a big patch lands? Is this still something they are doing in EA does anyone know? 2. Inventory loss upon death. That's just tedious, the XP loss is fine, but dying in a dungeon or far away from your spawn just means a mandatory long boring trip back to your corpse, and then having to deal with whatever killed you when you get there. If / when these issues are resolved, this game is getting a new cleric.... As for the content of this vid, looks awesome.... branching quests/outcomes sounds amazing....

[@Darknight055]

Well periodic wipe is because is an early access so is OK and about inventory death mmmm idk I don't see like a big problem. I like star citizen and dayz so I guess is a good choice to make it as a roleplay

[@chahat1598]

To loosely quote Jappa(in one of his last stream): The plan is to only wipe bevor 1.0 If there is Problem, they will exhaust every other option first. Ist's game dev so how knows witch problems will come up. So it's not impossible that there is a wipe but they don't want to. The goal is that the players can check out Early Access in different Stages of development with the same character. 2. Your group can carry your corps to a save spot. You can ask a Necromancer to summon your corps ore play a necromancer yourself. That said I will wait a few months bevor start playing. Maybe even till 1.0 I don't really want to play an early access game. I just don't have that much free Time for bugs and a lot of missing features.

[@Darknight055]

@@chahat1598 wow I didn't know that about the necro and carry Corp is pretty amazing is OK if you don't want to play early access is better to wait

[@paulus4539]

@@chahat1598 thats good news. A wipe before 1.0 is expected and I have no issue with that. Just the inventory loss on death then I guess. I don't expect this to change as it's the same in everquest right?

[@Yuras649]

@@paulus4539 The inventory loss isnt that big of a Deal. You will Most likely find a Necro who summons youre Corpse. Or a cleric/Shaman who revives you.

[@tordb]

Certain npc's are very overtuned and need adjusted badly. Like random bees that hit you for 100 at level 10 for no random reason.

[@Redbeardflynn]

The bees have a self sacrifice skill. I don't think it actually hits you for 100 it hits themselves for that but it can do significant damage but it blows the bee up too

[@MrEevilways]

@@Redbeardflynn Seriously? I haven't seen this yet and I love it! Kind of want to go bee hunting now.

[@SillyOne90]

While you like this Red Beard....the majority of the playerbase is going to careless about this option...most people skip the dialogue of most quest...and a couple of quest with optional chocies.....they wont care about it. You also keep talking about BG3...but each choice was a fully voiced over movie that made you feel amzing and in power....reading text and hitting yes or no...does not make me look forward to do more of these. Your passion is amazing but you are the very small minority of people who care about this system. Actually care...as in doing it when its not required.

[@cesarr.63]

@@SillyOne90 So what do the small minority of us who enjoy these things have to put up with? Isn't it more normal for people to decide for themselves and for those of us who do want to enjoy this option to have it? And that constant reference to BG3 is simply for the system of mechanics of choices, no need to take it further, I do not think anyone is comparing a game with the other, but some details of mechanics nothing more.

[@slanderpop8771]

When you start a comment about “there majority of the player base” I immediately take whatever you say with a grain of salt. You can speak for yourself but there is no way you know exactly what everyone will think or want. Most people playing this know it’s an older hardcore kinda mmo. Those types of players are not like mainstream gamers usually.

[@SillyOne90]

@@slanderpop8771 As someone who has played MMO's since Ultimate Online Beta and every MMO that has hit America since, as well as world first runs in EQ during the actual first live run of EQ....I believe I am educated enough to say "the majority of players". I could care less if you ignore my comments but I have 29 years of MMO experience, playing with countless guilds and players, and outside of joining that one or two RP guilds per server....the amount of players in the guilds of games similar to Pantheon...only 1-3% of went full nerd lore into the game. To be more accurate now with everything being at the touch of a finger type...most players will click through things fast and watch someone else play on KZbin or Twitch for more of the lore story then actually do it themselves, because no one has 12 hours a day anymore to explore games. It's 2025 no matter how "old school" this game is trying to draw experience from.

[@brimstonevalar6053]

7:48

[@ReDz083]

Bro.. I cant find Maple tree's. Why is there no map? Game needs some time to cook. Not all of us played Everquest.

[@Redbeardflynn]

There's no map my design to get you immersed I'm the world rather than looking at a minimap. That said they do still plan to have a static topographical map. Atm maps are player made over on the shalazam website

[@M001-AC]

The game having no map is brilliant... I hope to god they don't add one because so many people are asking.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@M001-AC they will have a static map. But no radar and no mini map

[@JeskaRain]

This is a blackhole that will sink the game. Like PvP. Anything that split the focus of this small of a team to anything other than to generate actual content is a waste of time and resources. I'm not saying the perception system isn't cool or smart. I'm saying it's dev suicide to even think they can build it up to something adequate.

[@Redbeardflynn]

To abandon it would be to abandon the original vision of the game

[@JeskaRain]

@@Redbeardflynn Yeah well I'm sure the original vision of the studio wasn't to still be only 10 devs 8 years later either.

[@boredfangerrude8759]

This is good in theory but the game is going to be an MMORPG, not a table top RPG, you can't just program it to work like it would in D&D. It works in D&D and similar games because you can't see the area around you, you are reliant on the DM's description but when you can, doing it the same way is awkward and redundant. I'm not saying there is no way to do a perception system, but you got to really think about how to implement it because this ain't it chief.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Like all things in an MMO (or games in general) things will be gamified and ignored by plenty of players. But for players who are interested in this type of thing, its rare to find and exciting. DDO is the other game I can think of that does it very well, creating a sense of immersion in the world. The perception, as described here, is one of the core reasons why I backed Pantheon back in 2016-17.

[@boredfangerrude8759]

@Redbeardflynn I get some gamification (corrected from gasification, lol) but it shouldn't be completely so. TBH, it's very hand holdy when it comes to finding things which, on one hand is good for the hopeless explorers like me that get lost in small areas and parking lots IRL, but it's not what people that want what Pantheon is promising want from the game. But like I said, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a perception system just this doesn't seem quite right.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@@boredfangerrude8759 The counter to that is it quite literally is part of the promise of Pantheon. From the very beginning the Perception system has been a core pillar of the game. It's also one of the most exciting features that have been previously shown off in eval builds. It's what made me pledge. We'll just have to see how it works in practice once it's fully implemented. I'm cautiously optimistic.

[@Monster-ig9do]

this game is complete empty. it hasn't even got an auction house. and they will work on quests dialogues? who cares? such a pity. this game had potential

[@Redbeardflynn]

I care, a lot, its why I backed the game years ago :) Quests and lore that mattered.

[@demonslayer9016]

I really want to enjoy the game but you are way too pidgeon holded into group play and even everquest had a map to at least get an idea wth you are. I loved eq and even being able to solo with certain classes I dont know.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Everquest didn't have a map for years. It was added in later expansions and was very basic (players had to make it too) As for grouping, they've been working lately on making soloing more viable. Atm more people are actually complaining that past 20 soloing is more viable than grouping 😅

[@slydog75]

many people in the game are actually complaining that soloing is TOO viable. Makes it harder to find groups.

[@leegoldr]

Wtf this game looks like it was made in the 70s skip this trash there 1000 of free to play better looking and FREE

[@lame1191]

nah nah nah this game and bg3 aint even close to comparable bg3 is still being played because its good and reasonable to go through again you tellin me that at like max lvl for example you mess your toon up now you basically just wasted all your time to brick a playthrough

[@Redbeardflynn]

You don't have to engage with the system at all if you do not want to.

[@lame1191]

@@Redbeardflynn sad reply

[@Redbeardflynn]

@lame1191 no i don't think you understood what I meant. It's not a requirement to progress. It's an alternative to progress. In the video he states there may br a robe you get from one of these quests that is exclusive right? But a comparable robe may also be available from drops or crafting

[@Aelious-]

I hope they integrate an AI controller for the game world, including the perception system. You continuously enter in the lore and parameters of the world and it naturally changes with choices and future events.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Please no. Hire real writers. Spoken as a writer.

[@Trukkerkeps]

Personally… Do not care about this system at all in an mmo. Not even in the slightest. But, whatever floats your boat.

[@Redbeardflynn]

😅 ok

[@Trukkerkeps]

@@Redbeardflynn I just feel this is more of a crpg thing where the story is more central and therefore wasted energy in an MMO. Sure there are guys like Ian Bates who invest a lot of thought into every minute detail of the lore, but the majority of the players don't care. MMO longevity is about community, gameplay, group and class dynamics and some kind of dynamic content for when you've already seen every nook and cranny of the world.

[@Redbeardflynn]

@Trukkerkeps it is also a core system of the original vision of pantheon. It's one of the things the game was sold as having from the very beginning that would differentiate it

[@Trukkerkeps]

@ perhaps… still a little weird to have an intricate quest system in a game where quests are taking a back seat, especially when the core of the game needs so much more attention.

[@Dann-qp2uw]

Mounts?

[@cesarr.63]

Noooooo

[@pipz420]

The Auction House?

[@Eldred32]

The game lacks basic things and here we are talking about branching dialogues in quests....

[@Aelious-]

@@Eldred32It’s the difference between game mechanics vs finalized details within those mechanics. Not to say those details aren’t important, but they need to focus on getting the underlying mechanics in first. That’s why it’s early access.

[@ESSBrew]

/auction

[@vitorac412]

In my personal opinion, based on what they've shown in showcases over the past 10-no, 5-no, 8, 10 years, it still feels like a scam. I don’t know what happened within the company, but they showcased something completely different. That said, I truly hope the game can deliver what it has shown and promised.

[@Redbeardflynn]

What happened was open development, mistakes, and the usual trajectory of a video game that you usually do not see. Evaluation builds and changes in art style. To call it a scam at this point when people are playing ot and having fun imo doesn't make much sense.

[@Derek8487]

"The Day Before" , now that was a scam.

[@vitorac412]

@@Redbeardflynn Thank you for the response, you are absolutely right. I will keep following the development through your videos. Congratulations on the great work!

[@Simon-hj8ci]

Considering the quest I've seen in pantheon so far this system won't help. You are so massively invested in this i think it's warped your perspective, i mean i get it i wanted pantheon to be good to but it's not.

[@Redbeardflynn]

What?

[@bruticusmaximus2737]

In this game yeah dont hold your breath, i will be glad they just flesh out the basic game, then in years to come they can add that. so far there are WAY to many other issues that needs fixing before fluff which this is to me.

[@GreenAppelPie]

Seriously, don’t use the clickbait “this changes everything” in your clickbait;it sounds idiotic.

[@Redbeardflynn]

Lol ok. It does change everything to me.

[@JoshuaKoitzsch]

Cool, a system that will be gamed. I’m sorry but the project management with this game is positivity dreadful. No one asked for this and since simple systems are not fleshed out so how do they expect to implement this, if it’s half baked it will cause so many bugs.

[@Redbeardflynn]

This has been a system in the game since it was first announced. It is is about as core a feature of the game as you can get.

[@Dann-qp2uw]

Forget perception. The game needs content. Especially Wilds end.

[@cesarr.63]

First of all perception is already new content secondly no the game does not need more kill, kill and kill content the game needs different content which I am sure there will be in the final release in a few years. We are testing a game and giving solidity to the base, but it is not a finished game

[@Darknight055]

We have too much game about kill a kill I will enjoy more roleplay mechanic than Just kill

[@Tinfoiledhat]

Maybe get a life and stop playing 24 hours a day ya dweebs. We can't even get a game anymore because you guys need 500 million hours of gameplay.

[@scottadavis8086]

I just want the druid and bard classes

[@Redbeardflynn]

Druid potentially end of jan early feb.

[@scottadavis8086]

@ oh yea. I’ll roll to a druid from cleric till bard comes then that’s all I’ll play. Give me that guitar and hand drum

[@GrimDaysAreHere]

This game is just like Brad mcQuaid's Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. A whole shitload of "potential" and "things coming" while still being an alpha after 10+ years of development. Only this time, there's no McQuaid buddy John Smedley with the backing of Sony to come bail these devs out.