parkrun Controversy: Losing Its Way or Evolving for All?

[@josephgonzalez_]

I struggle to see how it’s inclusive if it discriminates against a significant segment of runners who care about the stats, the age graded finishing position etc.

[@Nick-B78]

@@hamwhacker so I agreed with you right up until that last point. You are ASSUMING that trans people are simply out to ruin women’s sport which is likely very untrue. I agree that trans people should have their own category however Parkrun never offered this option so for those people who have transitioned and attend Parkruns as a female just to have fun and join in, it’s not their fault that they aren’t being catered for. Now, I already know what your response is likely to be…”then they should just select Male as their gender” but do you know how degrading that would probably be for them? Actually no, I doubt you could and honestly, neither can I really but I imagine it would be pretty horrible. This change is terrible and Parkrun have handled the whole thing really badly and they are the people to be angry at here

[@janholding5206]

How degrading, demotivating, disheartening do you think it might be for a female runner who is given a lower grading because she has been running in a category also open to men. If a man has gone through male puberty he will be faster and stronger than a female. This is a physiological reality. Calling yourself a woman does not change the reality. @@Nick-B78

[@samclare3765]

Aren't those stats all still available though? I can see them for each parkrun.

[@lynnm6413]

@@Nick-B78 funny, how not one ‚trans-woman‘ participated in the newly established trans category at the swim worldcup in Berlin. It‘s not about competing fairly, it‘s about crushing, dominating and subjugating women because they are deadly jealous of us.

[@lynnm6413]

By the way, I am of the strong opinion that all those ‚trans-women‘ we see in female sports do NOT have gender dysphoria, but are Autogynephiles, aka Transvestites or cross dressers. It‘s a libido thing

[@derek_spear]

I'm a parkrun RD and my heart sinks every time someone at HQ has one of these "wonderful" ideas. This one really takes the biscuit.

[@FilmMyRun]

Thanks Derek. Yes it is a head scratcher.

[@bradford_shaun_murray]

woke HQ

[@htmonaro1969]

I understand at least one Parkrun RD has resigned over this decision and several others are still considering their position. Given these are volunteers, they really don't have anything to lose in walking away, although freeing up their Saturdays is a very strong positive.

[@hamwhacker]

I think it is time we collectively took a stand against wokery. If I was a ParkRun RD I would temporarily resign in protest until the wokery is removed and the records reinstated. I am not a fast runner. But I have done Park Run over a hundred times and volunteered over 30 times. Personally I am going to boycott the event until the insanity is brushed aside and recognised for the woke nonsense it is. Tyranny of the minority HAS TO STOP.

[@hamwhacker]

Most people are sheep and will continue. I am one of the few in society who is not a sheep and will leave ParkRun because of this. I have run over 100 times and volunteered over 20 times. Can’t be bothered with it now. Because the sheep will keep running under the new woke rules. And jumped up socialists can thereby be empowered to make such woke rules because sheep conform. EVERYONE CAN ALL DO ONE!!! NOTHING PERSONAL!!!

[@TonyDaltonPhotography]

One of the most motivational and best metrics has been removed, less of a reason to visit the local Parkrun sites. They have ruined it for the vast majority of the silent majority. Crazy!

[@BeenMangoed]

Parkrun was something I was looking forward to as a newish runner and I liked that you had access to all those stats and history. And you are correct, as a potential first timer this has kinda spoilt it for me now.

[@debrabourne3486]

@ILoveValenciaOranges Please contact parkrun HQ and tell them.

[@drpetersaunders7357]

Totally agree. I'm 65 and a relative newcomer as I can no longer run marathons. Too many injuries. Parkrun is brilliant and the detailed stats are a fantastic motivator and add to the excitement. Just crazy to scrap them.

[@jamezday]

I've run over 250 Parkruns, everyone has always been included from the front to the back, it doesn't matter but if someone works for years to get a course record then they deserve their flowers 💐 Everyone is running their own race but all together, that is Parkruns appeal

[@jobe6978]

To have a man compete against you and steal it from you? You think that is inclusive of women? See how many women's categories were won by men.

[@robwilks4816]

Totally Agree. I'm 61 and going to do my first park run in March, one of the reasons was to compare what sort of time i should be aiming for in my age group. Very disappointing before i've even started.

[@Dan-cs5mg]

Go anyway it will be one of the best decisions you ever make.

[@clairel3730]

Yes you will still get an age grading 😀 I got mine this morning😀

[@debrabourne3486]

Please contact parkrun HQ and tell them that!

[@bobminor1141]

You'll get a time and an age % as well. If it's 50%, you'll know you're bang average. If it's 75% you'll know you're pretty good for your age. It's no reason to not go.

[@debrabourne3486]

@@bobminor1141just as a point of information, that's not what age grading is. 50% does not mean you are running the average (mean) pace for your age it means you are running at 50% of word record speed (not pace - mph or miles/min, not mins/mile) for your age and sex (roughly, percentage of world record speed, except I think they take a few top results to work from).

[@stuartwalker6786]

Spoil it for the 99.75% to pander to a minute minority, it's not about inclusion, it's about exclusion of the needs and wants of the majority.

[@travellingshoes5241]

It's not ideal but we'll get over it.

[@Jimthetyreman]

The final part you mentioned was NO TIME KEEPING etc is the way its heading, its wrong! We all need a challenge, it's the way we improve. I know my 5k PB, I know when I'm best ready to challenge it, it doesn't matter to anyone else!! Just let me do it!!

[@61js]

Indeed. If there's no time keeping, that will be the end of it.

[@stevo0861]

When that time comes, I'm out. I can run from home and time myself. Why bother travelling 5 miles to run an untimed run? It wouldn't work for me personally.

[@kenjude1]

That’s literally the only way they can make the controversy go away given the path they’re chosen. It looks like a race, and is treated as such by some. All the while that continues the noise over the lack of fairness to women will continue. They’ve made their bed ….. But you’re right, it will lead to an exodus. Not sure how they can hope to achieve their “doubling in 5 years” plan if they spit out the people who are or become competitive as they get fitter.

[@adrianparker-e9f]

Even though we can do our own timing, it's not the same as an independent body doing it. It would be like marking your own work ! Having said that, there's no way to check if someone has done the full 5km either ! (I'm sure everyone does ?)

[@ethandalton6480]

​@@stevo0861don't worry, that time won't come

[@christiantaylor962]

Agree with you Stephen. I am 56 just got into running during lockdown and managed to get my age category record with a lot of hard work. It is like it does not exist now😢 I usually come about 4th but love to cheer the other runner on at the end of all abilities and fail to see how faster people are off putting or intimidating. Total nonsense! I think the removal of people's achievements is far more off putting and taken the joy out of PR for many. Part of the fun was seeing how close you get to others or their records. I used to look up to the bloke also 56 who won the most park runs, or the guy with the course record. They would motivate me to get fitter and challenge myself. This change is disgraceful based on the complaints of a few and Park Run not wanting to tackle the Trans issue head on. Just woke in my view. Great video. Well said.

[@joelmead]

If people don’t like seeing the course records, don’t look at the course records. But don’t stop me looking at them because I like that, and many others do too! Stupid rule change from Parkrun HQ

[@nickip6189]

Absolutely agree. Well said.

[@Dekedence]

they could event stick it in the footer and go "psst, you data divers out there ... the stats are here".

[@jobe6978]

Records that belong to women held by men?

[@uksuperguy]

You had to scroll all the way to the bottom on the page to see these stats anyway. They wont tell you the real reason they deleted these stats!

[@jl45000019]

@@uksuperguy£££ funding and the potential to lose it

[@joetomholt80]

We just ran our run in Australia and everyone was shocked to be told about the change. So disappointing and many will drop off now and join clubs instead. I truely hope they reverse this decision

[@MarcBurrows]

And yet Saturday was the 8th highest global attendance ever, with 100 less parkruns than last weekend (which was the 4th highest global attendance ever). Last weekend the average amount of runners was 169 and this weekend it was 174. So there was even an increase. So no, many won’t drop off, and parkrun will keep growing. What I saw at parkrun this weekend was everyone enjoying their Saturday morning run in exactly the same way that they always have done and will continue to do.

[@coops111s]

@@MarcBurrows parkrun will not lose many runners over this issue but they have bottled a major fair play issue here, under no circumstances can you have a transgender woman (MAN) compete as a woman, parkrun had the opportunity to make it clear and bottled it

[@ethandalton6480]

@@coops111s "fair play" it's a fun run, not the Olympics

[@coops111s]

@@ethandalton6480 I think you missed my point, by fair play I meant you could either treat it has a morning out a chat or you can treat it had a race, the running as a woman when you clearly aren’t has to stop, I reckon the vast majority of parkrunners start their watches because they are competitive and treat it as their mini Olympics

[@ethandalton6480]

@@coops111s the majority of parkruners are racing against themselves or their friends, or to compare themselves to the grading system for their age group, there's very few who set out every Saturday morning to try and break the course record.

[@mikebonner5611]

Well said Stephen. Completely agree with everything you’ve said. Hope parkrun reconsider this or it will change a lot of people’s rationale to make to the effort to support this event. It won’t bring any new people. Just turn off loyal supporters.

[@MarcBurrows]

And yet the stats from the weekend have proved otherwise with more attendees per parkrun this weekend than last weekend. parkrun will continue to grow and the removal of some fast times from the website will have zero impact on the numbers attending to go round a park on a Saturday morning.

[@MattdeFreitas]

You summed up my thoughts exactly Stephen - perfectly put. I like you love parkrun - I've been doing it since 2007 and to be fair I haven't don't many but I think it's a great event and love that it is inclusive for all levels. And that means all levels - celebrating the slowest and the fastest and everyone in between. There was absolutely no reason to do this - just put all those interesting stat results pages a couple of clicks away from the front page if you don't want people to see them but a big step backwards to get rid of them.

[@samclare3765]

Am I missing something? I can still see my stats when I log in. I can see the time I've set for each parkrun, what position I finished and my Age Grade. Has this been taken away from future parkruns?

[@FilmMyRun]

In the video I show exactly on the parkrun website what has been removed.

[@samclare3765]

@@FilmMyRun Hi, thank you for the reply! Yes it's just that without being familiar with the website before the change, I'm not sure exactly what is missing. I am still able to see the list of finishers and their positions for each event for all of event history. Including gender position, overall position, age grade. The same for my own results. The course record can easily be found by sorting results by fiishing time.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@samclare3765 in the video I show a before and after. So you can see the old website and what was there and the new website so you can compare and see what’s gone. It’s basically all records. So fastest make and female globally and for each individual parkrun as well as age group records and top 500 lists

[@samclare3765]

@@FilmMyRun"It's basically all records" - I'm not sure that's accurate? I've just found the screenshot in your video. It looks like the following are removed: most first finishers, first finishers, sub 17, top age grade, new category records and course records. As far as I can see, course records can still be found by sorting results. It's a bit more work now. I do find it weird that they would remove those links but still leave all the parkrun records in place if they were worried about putting people off? You can still see who finishing in what position. Profiles are still available too so you can see which parkruns each person ran. TBH without being familiar with the previous website (I've never clicked on those now missing links) I'm not sure how useful or interesting I would actually find any of them. In you video you made it seem like they'd removed all results and I think it's a bit sensationalist.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@samclare3765 I’m not sure what I said to imply that and as you’ve seen I show pretty much exactly what has disappeared in screenshots. But there we are, if you got the wrong impression from something in the video my apologies.

[@peterwise302]

Fully agree, to be honest if there is another event with time keeping stats I'd rather do that. I'm not fast by any means, but it is the concept of trying to best my previous times or keep up with my best time that has inspired me to get up and get out to even get exercise.

[@isomochyn1]

I don't really see the big deal, you can still see where you placed on an a run, or any past run. The lack of it showing PBs is a bit annoying but I feel like people are making a way bigger deal out of this that it is, it's not going to impact 95%+ of people doing park run.

[@FilmMyRun]

I think you’re probably right that in the grand scheme of things once people get used to it, it’s not going to make a huge difference. But we all like to have a moan, so we’ll do that for a few weeks and then it’ll be fine.

[@jonwilson8178]

I like to see pb i find they motivate me to lead a healthy lifestyleand to go out and train during the week. If you don't like looking at pb then just ignore. This is very distressing

[@isomochyn1]

@@jonwilson8178 The PB part seems to be incorrect, the results from yesterday still show if it was a PB

[@isomochyn1]

@@FilmMyRun True, i can respect that. I seen a few of your vidoes but wasn't subscribed. So even if I don't particularly agree with this video you've earned a subscriber. However as I said to the other guy the part about it not showing PBs seems to be incorrect information, runs from yesterday clearly show PBs, whether you were misinformed or they have reverted that part I don't know.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@isomochyn1 yes as it says in the video PBs will still be there. Thanks so much for subscribing

[@robertfrance8298]

Thanks Stephen, I hope you get a million views, and that Parkrun gets the message.

[@jimmycburfield5997]

What’s best for new Runners is simply being welcomed. Having perhaps a group of true tail walkers helps and making it clear everyone is welcome

[@severiner7168]

I look at fastest times to see how hard / easy the course is so if the fastest runner is 20' I know it's good not to expect too much of myself. instead of removing stuff, they could celebrate other achievements on that drop list

[@John-Smlth]

Check the 5 most recent results in "event history", they're still up, only one more click further away, and they will give you the same rough info but with more data points.

[@MarcBurrows]

Record event times are a terrible way of working out course difficulty. Different times of year can completely change whether a course is easy or hard - one near me is a quagmire in the winter but speedy in the summer. A 15 minute local runner could show up every week at a hilly parkrun whilst a parkrun in the middle of nowhere (or a new one) might have never had anyone go under 17 minutes. Much better is to read the course description or to use the 5k app which has tags re. Elevation and path type. Even a Strava segment would be a better guide.

[@SparkesIsRunning]

But you haven’t mentioned the actual reason as to why park run are doing this? All your points are very true and I agree 100% but the issue is not to do with people being fast or competitive alone.

[@FilmMyRun]

Thanks Claire. The reason according to the parkrun statement is to do with parkrun not wanting to put off runners who might feel intimidated or overwhelmed by the fast times front and centre on the website. Runners who might benefit from doing parkrun but are anxious, new or inexperienced runners. That’s what parkrun HQ are saying. Now I am well aware of the transgender issue but have deliberately chosen not to involve myself in that debate as I am massively under qualified to do so. Any opinion I have is not informed by any experience. I don’t have the answers and I see both sides and understand why both parties have issues with parkrun results. And of course this is a much wider issue about women and trans women in sport. Perhaps I’ll attempt to look at it at some point but I don’t feel comfortable about it now.

[@celeste1421]

@@FilmMyRunIt’s actually not that complex. Essentially, males are identifying as females and taking women’s course records. You can imagine the outcry if a whole bunch of Oscar Pistorius types started taking the first places from the male runners. The course record at Aberystwyth parkrun is held by Lauren Jeska - a trans-identifying male who was imprisoned for nearly killing a UK Athletics official. So, a man holds the women’s record. This is an example of what we female runners are protesting about. Sexed bodies run races, not gender identities.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@celeste1421 I get that totally, but I also get that there is a wider debate about trans women in sport and trans women in society who are desperate to feel valued and fully accepted as women, because that's who they genuinely feel they are. I feel it is complex. We could easily make all trans women register in the 'other' category and I think that's probably the solution I would choose. But parkrun don't want to enforce that and if they stick to their guns they risk losing some of the EA funding.

[@celeste1421]

@@FilmMyRun When you do a bit of investigation into this, you’ll be shocked to discover that these trans-identifying men are doing this simply for the thrill of boundary transgression and for self-validation. They are no more women than a cat is a dog. Or than I am Cleopatra of the Nile. I could equally decide that I am 6 years old and win all the running races in that year group of a primary school. If I think I am 6 years old, then surely that is the same as actually being 6 years old? As for parkrun losing their funding, there is provision for services etc being reserved exclusively for females.

[@Paulashfordpoems]

@@FilmMyRun That's exactly the dilemma here but I think parkrun and all sporting organisations have to put them in another category because otherwise all women suffer.

[@milliejake2]

Well! I agree with all of that Stephen, well said! 👏👏

[@FilmMyRun]

What??? Surely not Tina! haha

[@RichardHodgsonGuildford]

A well thought out argument, Stephen. Wholeheartedly agree, as I am positive the majority of all parkrunners will agree.

[@ianl4518]

Couldn't agree more. The banner of 'inclusivity' is incredibly hard to get right without actively excluding someone. Parkrun has lost its way, take the mind boggling decision from Shepton Mallet Parkrun to ban one former winner for life because he 'runs too fast'! Another runner is on a. 'final warning'. This has come about from a couple of walkers at the back chatting and being 'spooked' by faster runners 🤦‍♂ If it's not a race, don't time it! My 10 yr old daughter loves looking at her times, she's sub 23.00 mins now and will show the old man a clean pair of heels soon and I couldn't be prouder. She's as quiet as a mouse any other time but loves racing other people and the encouragement (and disbelief!) she gets from others at parkrun is great. Take that away and it's lost a big part of its purpose and attraction. If you go out of your way to include every cohort and situation except the pointy end, then you are creating a culture of exclusivity, where fast runners are not welcome and achievements are not to be celebrated. However, I strongly suspect that that 'intimidation' is not the driver behind this at all.

[@jobe6978]

It's not difficult. It's very easy. Open category. Think of your daughter and any athletic aspirations she may have.

[@coops111s]

Parkrun has just bottled it, petrified to take the transgender issue head on, instead they have taken away all the records 😂😂 wow I love Parkrun but this is a very sad day

[@jensmith3719]

I am not sure what the transgender issue is ??? in the context of parkrun it really should not matter. Its never going to happen, but in fantasy land if i ran the fastest parkrun time in my category and a transgender runner bettered it, i really would not care, too many other things in life far more important. Im just grateful it is there week in week out. Sad my 90 year old mum will drop off the page in her age group category, i have told her but she is busy watching U20 Rugby and does not seem too bothered, I am still very proud of her and that she had somewhere safe and supportive to partake in a fun event

[@coops111s]

@@jensmith3719 it’s the principle that matters not what each personal opinion is, fair play is paramount in any sport so parkrun needed to show some guts and they’ve bottled it

[@FilmMyRun]

Coops I have to admit I deliberately sidestepped the trans issue. I've taken the parkrun press release at face value and assumed it's about not putting off new or inexperienced runners from signing up.

[@coops111s]

@@FilmMyRun Like I said Parkrun has bottled it and thought we would buy “the put people off” shame on them, no wonder sport is in crisis, just ask Sharron Davies 🙈

[@jensmith3719]

@@coops111s i do agree that it is very ott and if you are not a stats person then you wont look at them anyway, i was more focused on the transgender issue because as i understood it, this may well be what drove their decision , which if is the case , totally nuts, . The more i read and hear others opinions i am thinking they have got it wrong, am sure with the depth of feeling all will return to how it was, fingers crossed,

[@Kaisersozze]

Liberally everything in our lives is getting worse. This is just another thing. When everyone is a winner in reality everyone is a looser.

[@pcattv]

Why have this rant without having the balls to mentioning the elephant in the room, which is Parkrun not having the balls to place runners with balls in the result tables for runners with balls!

[@FilmMyRun]

Haha. Very good. Yea I really didn’t want to talk about it. Massive can of worms and more complex than I want to get in to. Still, I did it anyway in a video after this. Check the channel.

[@nicnak4475]

Hi Stephen, I think it was the trans issue that caused them to remove the stats, Apparently there were three trans who held female course records, This was their easiest way out it appears.

[@jc8451]

I'm with you in terms of impacting the majority due to individuals views. I feel sorry for Parkrun as an organisation. They do so much for society and have been put in a really tricky situation. Will a young female athlete be put off because a small number of situations where a genetic male or male at birth person has run as a female or are we now putting off scores of females and males as they can't break course records at all as they don't exist. Seems illogical to me. It's lost an element of fun for me and I am nowhere near breaking any records whichever gender or age group I run as.

[@debrascott8775]

Wow, do you twist yourself up to blame trans people for all your troubles? I'm sorry for you.

[@jc8451]

@@debrascott8775 Not sure I blamed any Trans person for anything. Perhaps re-read my point and enjoy your day.

[@stevo0861]

But even the trans issue, isn't complex. If you're born male, you compete with the boys. Or, create a seperate category. It's not even difficult.

[@remcodejong9149]

@@debrascott8775 Hysterical much?

[@jobe6978]

Yes. Females are put off. Go have a read. It's ridiculous that the discrimination against women is condoned and we are undermined constantly.

[@Deano_MOOD]

As someone who usually runs parkruns in under 19 minutes, I can assure you that I won't judge you if you are doing the parkrun much slower than me I just want the stats back man

[@samclare3765]

Which stats have been removed? I genuinely don't understand. You can still see course record, each persons position overall and by gender, and your own age grade, position and gender position, for each event.

[@Deano_MOOD]

@@samclare3765 fastest 500, sub 17...

[@jl45000019]

@@samclare3765watch the video, it is clearly shown what has been removed, there is a lot more than just the stats you have listed and they are all gone.

[@jacoh9591]

I did my first park run this year for the fun and continued because of the time and stats... It's fun to see where you are and how you've done in relation to others. I also enjoy the community aspect. Now they come with this bs

[@bobminor1141]

You'll still see where you finish, you'll still have your own time, you'll still have an age grade %. All of that shows how you've done relative to others. There's no loss of community either.

[@alexdoherty1984]

Just have a separate category for trans runners, problem solved.

[@FilmMyRun]

They do already have that. But not many transgender people use it and there’s no obligation for them to do so.

[@alexdoherty1984]

Remove their records then. Men who transition to female have a huge advantage over biological females, their records should not be recorded as female.

[@sdemosi]

​@@FilmMyRunisn't that a form of cheating however? If a very athletic man who wasn't transgender showed up in a wig, declared themselves a female, and set a course record, how would Parkrun deal with that? There is a category for transgender so it should be obligatory to use it if someone is in fact transgender. It's wild to suggest adhering to such a straightforward rule is discrimination.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@sdemosi agreed and that does indeed happen. But parkrun is a fun free event. There’s no dope testing. It’s not an Olympic qualifier. So things like that aren’t taken particularly seriously.

[@BenNotley]

Wise words Stephen. Completely agree with everything you have said mate. This is the first that I have heard about this issue mate so thanks for bringing toy attention. I have only ever done 2 parkruns and on both occasions I did use them as a TT and like you say I am 90% sure most of the people that attend it regularly do too. 😎🤘

[@FilmMyRun]

Thanks Ben. How's your running going lately btw?

[@BenNotley]

@@FilmMyRun no worries mate 😊👍 Things have been ticking over alright thanks. Just easing out a few niggles but nothing too drastic. Hope you guys are both alright. 😎🤘

[@stedoesstuff]

I couldn't care less that they've removed records, it makes zero difference to me. I hope the people threatening to 'boycott' Parkrun follow through so I have more space, but I suspect it's just the usual brief social media storm in a very small teacup.

[@debrascott8775]

Idk, Parkrun has always said they are an event, not a race. I've heard a lot of noise about how the racing aspect has been pushing non-competative people out. Not because THEY care, but people who DO care act an a$$ to slower runners, especially on looped courses. There are so many races out there. And you CAN just timetrial on your own watch. This change feels ok to me.

[@61js]

I've never experienced any of that, but in any walk of life there's always a certain element.

[@markbiegel7683]

I found the stats motivating please bring them back ASAP

[@feezee82]

If you try to please everybody, you will end up pleasing nobody.

[@em97c]

To me its just like... If you DONT care about the stats.... You can just not look at them? If youre there for fun then dont check your times???

[@jl45000019]

also see the loss of New year doubles, banning canicross, refusal to produce the magazine in electonic format, putting all the nordic extra days on the same day, refusing to allow electronic barcodes until last year when they felt forced into it. its like they are deliberately trying to remove all the joy from the event and now this.... i know they will try to remove places and/or times, if that happens i think its the death of parkrun, they will try and rename it too im sure

[@walterleach4499]

Totally agree. This has demotivated more people than it has motivated and is IMO contrary to PRs philosophy. Can you tell me where you got the image used at 6:30 in this video? Very thought provoking image that is like to use in a talk at church.

[@FilmMyRun]

Hi Walter. Just type in ‘Mel Gibson talking to Jesus Christ’

[@RobertNaik]

The information is fine for 99% of people. I wish they would just leave it.

[@HaraldHofer]

Sometimes I go there for a tempo run, sometimes to pace a friend, sometimes to achieve a new PB. But always I want to know my time. Why not? And I want to compare myself to others. This is a major driver for improvement for me. And I assume for the cast majority it is very similar.

[@FilmMyRun]

Where is your local parkrun Harald?

[@HaraldHofer]

@@FilmMyRun Austria, Linz, Donauradweg. Flat as flat can be... 👍

[@ellismccoy]

The problem is that people DO care and unfortunately it's the voices outside of the sport which are the loudest. Parkrun has 3 options. 1. Allow trans to run as women, in which case you get the right wing media calling foul for ruining women's sport. 2. Allow trans athletes to run in the men's category, in which case you get the LGBT community going wild. 3. Screw it, just delete the records and spite everyone that made such a stupid fuss, but at the sake of the actual people who are running in the events. It's a massive shame, but point 3 is probably the least political charged overall. IMO "men's category" should actually be labelled "open" as they do in cycling races and in doing so anyone who isn't biologically a women runs in the open category. Seems the most fair to me.

[@alanrobertson3172]

Self- destructing park run. It’s over.

[@alexdyter8237]

To be honest, when I do parkrun, I don't bother with barcode. As it's going to be on the watch anyway. I don't particularly care when I finish. Shame about tourism as well thought it could only benefit the area.

[@kiely4561]

I can understand the argument from both ends of the spectrum, if you’re born a female and you’re being robbed of a category place by someone who was born male that now “identifies” as female i can understand how that would piss people off, and yes its not fair, but parkrun lies in this grey area of being a free all inclusive fun run, nobody is missing out on prize money or an Olympic spot, so the question really is should we be angry at the small minority of runners who complained which led to these changes or the park run committee for trying to keep it inclusive, its a weird one to tackle because its not elite sport we’re talking about.

[@FilmMyRun]

But I guess for some people who will never get to the Olympics or win any prize money, this is the closest they/we may get to glory, success and winning in a running context. Of course it’s not just genuine trans women who might take records in the women’s category, some men deliberately register as women just to take records! I don’t know what the answer is and you can never mitigate for those trying to game the system.

[@kiely4561]

@@FilmMyRunI’ve been a sub 17 5k runner in my time and have managed to come 1st place in a few park runs and from personal experience its just as competitive as any other race despite it being labelled a “fun run”, so i totally get why people would feel robbed, my own personal opinion is that I don’t believe a male who has transitioned should toe the race line with biological females, but with parkruns ethos of being this global all inclusive fun run its such a conflicting and polarising state of affairs.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@kiely4561 totally agree.

[@mrhairyman]

You still get your time. It's just not on a website. That's all that's changed - whether it's up on the website or not.

[@FilmMyRun]

Yea, true enough

[@adamking1932]

Agree on the most part. But records that have been taken away, because people are not playing fair, are the real reason behind this.

[@jobe6978]

Men running in women's categories?

[@htmonaro1969]

​@@jobe6978there are over 2300 Parkruns globally and only 1 open women's course record is held by a trans woman, how it that a threat to women in sport. The solution is to create a gender X category, which would actually attract more trans people to Parkrun because now there are over 2300 new course records to chase, without even accounting for all of the gender x age group records. That is probably not a possibility for World Athletics but Parkrun, being a community based organisation could easily do that.

[@FrugalMrB]

Even after watching the video, I'm still not 100% sure what has been removed that still cannot be accessed. Ok, the links may have been removed, but I can still see the fastest finishers, both male and female, for either an individual race or for the whole of the event's history - I just use the filter on the event page. I can see the highest and lowest age-grades for an individual category for each event. I can also see who in my category (VM50-54) was faster than me at an event, and then look at their individual race results history (if I wanted to). The search function has been removed - but that was only useful to a point, and you can still use the 5K app to search for a particular runner if you really wanted/needed to. Can anyone explain what I am missing? Thanks in advance.

[@FilmMyRun]

You can’t see the global parkrun records for men, women or age cat runners.

[@FrugalMrB]

@@FilmMyRun Thanks for your response. It looks like I'm not missing out on anything that's important to me as I'm only interested in how I compare to others at the parkrun I'm doing. I've just watched your Philips Park video as that is on my list to do - I then looked up the timings and it looks like I'll be mid-range for my age group (I'll never be able to match your fast time - well done Stephen 🙂)

[@velogoo]

You don’t mention what this change is really about - gender identity. It’s not the Olympics so anyone can self declare male/female/prefer not to say etc as they wish. I think parkrun want to avoid complaints about females who were born male taking course records, first finishers etc. I guess it’s just a sign of the times, I don’t personally like the decision either, but I also can’t think of a better solution at the moment. It’s just a fun run after all and I will continue to focus on having fun (while trying to break my PBS!)

[@jimmycburfield5997]

225 is brilliant Great video Well said

[@JennyH-x3y]

HI Stephen. My 23 year daughter is trans. I know you've not suggested this - but many have said that she (and other trans people) are to blame for this. So I wanted to write to tell you our story... My daughter runs with me and other family members at parkrun. None of us are very fast and would never come near any course record. We're nearer the back of the pack! We do it because we love it. The national debate about trans people has been toxic lately (ie: trans ppl are predators, cheats etc) and it's impacted my daughter's mental health. For that reason, positive experiences like parkrun are important for her. Fortunately, she isn't obviously 'trans' to look and most of her friends, work colleagues etc don't know her history. So if she wasn't able to register as a female at parkrun then she would have to choose between never joining in another parkrun again - or 'outing' herself, which in this day and age can be dangerous. My daughter isn't a cheat. She's not a danger to other women. She, like the vast majority of trans ppl, are just trying to get by without being excluded or hounded out of daily life. Thanks for your videos. We are massive "running youtube" junkies and love your channel.

[@FilmMyRun]

Thank you so much for your comment. I’m going to do a follow up video because I deliberately avoided the trans issue in this video. Would you mind if I read out part of this comment in the next video?

[@JennyH-x3y]

@@FilmMyRun Of course that's fine Stephen. Thank you One issue with the trans debate is trans voices are rarely heard. Especially the voices of trans ppl who have fully transitioned, gone through all the medical treatment and are just trying to live as normal a life as possible. So please do use my comment. I obviously can't give my daughters' or my full name but hopefully that's OK. x

[@FilmMyRun]

Thanks so much Jenny

[@JennyH-x3y]

@@FilmMyRun Hi Stephen, the update is that my daughter has decided not to run with her family at parkrun anymore. The hostility from some in the running community to trans women over the last week has left her too scared. I've tried to reassure her that she'll be OK but she says she'll be too nervous .I hope this all blows over as it's left her feeling so low and I'm anxious for her mental health. She is going to try running on her own which at least will be something. Take care. J.

[@JennyH-x3y]

@@rl7012 I guess I knew that telling my daughter's story would lead to comments like yours. I'm so sorry you feel like that. All I can say is that my daughter is doing her best to get from day to day - and so are her family. The treatment, surgery etc she put herself through was painful and difficult - and while it was hard for us to accept initially - we can now see that she is, and could only ever have been, a woman. We don't fully understand why.- and she tells me that she doesn't either. --- I know you won't accept any of this and will certainly reply with more condemnation.. But please know that she is a gentle and compassionate person, a trusted health professional, and someone we're all really proud of.

[@simonhodgson4941]

100% agree and so we'll put. This doesn't affect as I'm around 26 mins but it is pathetic. But it's another thing getting ruined by the woke idiots. I will still attend as I love it but not happy with Parkrun.

[@GreenPistachio]

This whole inclusivity BS is getting out of hand.

[@AlexReimerTrail]

I didn't even know that Parkun was an official and established organization. I thought it was just a name people gave to weekend runs where a group of runners would run together.

[@FilmMyRun]

Every day is a school day. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@ruthhutchings6140]

I will continue to support, volunteer and run at parkrun, but I really hope this decision will be reversed. I am very motivated by stats and proud to be a nerd. I can run alone, set a benchmark for myself and continue to 'compete' with my time, and save the timekeepers and barcode scanners the trouble of turning out. I love the social friendly community feel, but that comes second to the core 5k timed run.

[@jobe6978]

Social, friendly community that puts penises before women?

[@junkming]

Agree entirely. I am already discouraged. As a 76-year old regular runner the stats, especially those relating to my age group, have been one of my big motivators. It's great when as a geriatric like me you get an email at 1130 on a Saturday saying 'You were 1st in your age group'. To get rid of all that is rank stupidity.

[@thewaan]

You know that hasn’t changed don’t you? One thing that all the people shouting about this fail to mention is that your result email will stay the same

[@timcutbush]

I'm a parkrunner and have been for about 2 years, I totally agree, When I first went to my first event, yes I was a little nervous, but I knew it was timed, that's the reason I wanted to do it! Parkrun please reverse this discussion.

[@MarcBurrows]

It’s still timed. You still get the same stats you always have done.

[@shapes2000]

I would love to know how many times you have volunteered at a parkrun event since 2011.

[@ppmppm7010]

Spoilers aren't they . Why join an activity then set about changing it. You want something different go start it somewhere else

[@philbattley8776]

Stephen, did you actually tell us exactly what is happening? I kept waiting for the “and this is what it is now like”, but instead got “up to last week this is what the website showed”. A lot of rant for little information! Details please.

[@Dekedence]

He did show at 4:55 ... the 'results' dropdown had a bunch of stand-alone pages for things like "first finishers" and "sub 17", but most of them have gone.

[@Aliwop]

Thank you for this. Bring back the performance data! We loved it the way it was. No need to remove, if it discourages people, those people must just not look at it.

[@martinadams5893]

Great video. Who actually decided this change? Was it put to a vote?

[@SimonBransfieldGarth]

Hi Stephen. The parkrun website says "Your personalised results email and your individual profile pages will remain unchanged, as will the results pages for every event". So as I read it, you still get to see how you did against the field in a given event. You just don't have overall PBs, which I don't think most people are bothered by. Or am I missing something?

[@FilmMyRun]

No Simon you are absolutely right about the first part. But I do think.....and it's evident from the responses here and on social media....that people do like to see those stats. I love seeing new records and scouring through the top 500 or the sub 17 group. I am a mid pack runner in many scenarios and I'm not intimidated by fast runners. I think it's inspiring. It's a shame some people find it so off putting that someone else can run faster than them, that they would avoid coming to an event because of it.

[@cathygurney3553]

Spot on Stephen! Love all your videos.

[@Logs888]

For the majority of people running is a fun activity for themselves and that alone. As you said in the video: your running is about you! I know there are super fast people and thats awesome - celebrate them for their achievement and be happy. I look at my result and try to improve from there. If I start at 40 minutes or 25...the only one who cares is myself. In a marathon I also only work on my on pb.

[@richardstott6023]

I think they've done it to avoid addressing the issue of some Female records being held by men.

[@Nick-B78]

You realise you could have made your point with at least a degree of compassion, right? I agree that it’s wrong for trans women to compete against cisgender women but you don’t have to call them men. Your screen name is Richard but you don’t see me calling you Dick 😉

[@LarryWelsh1]

I note that your volunteer/participation ratio is very low, maybe you need to make a preachy video about that.

[@andyplant3855]

I do hope someone from Parkrun HQ watches this video and sees the mistake they have made. The worker is slowly going mad and soft

[@zendoc62]

I’ve been watching, with interest, the recent online discussions of the issue of gender self-identification and how that impacts Parkrun results reporting/recording. I suspect, but don’t know, that this recent change is the consequence of the play of gender politics. I think Parkrun are in a difficult position here - there will be push back in whatever way they handle the issue. But I do believe that in the interests of inclusivity, they needed to take a position and it seems they have done so. It will please some and not others. Above all, let’s keep it fun for all.

[@darylhurst2629]

It will please 10, it will upset 1,000,000. ??

[@zendoc62]

Yes, I know…but isn’t that how it is today? I’m only glad it’s not me having to make decisions around all this.

[@Paulashfordpoems]

But the position they have taken, to allow trans runners to be in the women's category isn't fair on the women who go out and train hard, and now to take away all records, well I think they have now taken away a motivating factor for all runners so as to maintain their unfair position on the trans women. Wrong on both counts!

[@lizbee726]

I wholeheartedly agree. Exactly!! Why time the event? No need for barcodes or tokens, no recording of the event. In fact why not go the whole hog & change the Name? 😒🤣

[@NickcavanaghIe]

You say it's lost the plot, but here we are five months later with more runs and more runners each week. So there's that.

[@FilmMyRun]

@@NickcavanaghIe never said it was going to fold! Those in charge of parkrun are about running business. The same way people complain about UTMB, parkrun are creating the same disconnected business which doesn’t care about its runners, its customers and just wants to make as much money as possible. Fair play to them. Parkrun is great, parkrun management are not.

[@alisonwoodrow6424]

My running goal this year was to improve my age related rating.... not everyone will get faster...

[@MarcBurrows]

You still can?

[@ashley1scott]

The reason for the chance is due to those at the pointy end of the race times, who are looking at course records and race wins. This excludes 99+ % of those that do Parkruns. We all know the reason why this has been brought in but no one wants to say it out loud.

[@SparkesIsRunning]

Yes totally agree

[@remcodejong9149]

Can't risk offending the rainbow cult can we.

[@Paulashfordpoems]

No, it has nothing to do with the records "putting people off". Parkrun won't admit it but it because they are too weak to tell the trans athletes that they can't have women's records. Most sporting organisations around the world are now realising that it isn't fair on women and parkrun need to do the same.

[@IainThacker]

There's a reason I refer to it as "Park Race" - it's where I go to put in a 5k effort and see how training is going outside my usual targets of 10k/HM.

[@phroso7486]

This is all my fault. When I started running in June of 2022 I told anyone who would listen that I was only there to set age category records for as many courses as I could. Having done that, I was then looking forward to my 80th birthday so I could go on setting records. This confused many of the volunteers who bought into the official narrative of 'It's not a race". No doubt someone looked at their website and panic set in. They will now have to stop counting how many park runs each individual has. Imagine the demoralization of going to your first event and seeing all those shirts with 25, 50, 100, 250! The horror!

[@jonwilson8178]

I want to see my PB and compare it to the fastest runners, ill never compete with them but i find it inspirational and motivating to see the results. Very very bad 8dea by parkrun will turn offa lot of people

[@tomr200199]

Even those who are running purely for health and enjoyment will use times to track their progress and set themselves goals to create reason to get out there and keep running when they lose motivation. You don't have to look at your time, you can opt out, by just not being involved in that way, but those who want the timing cannot opt in, and that's not right.

[@FilmMyRun]

Yes I agree entirely. The problem is I just don't think parkrun HQ are listening anymore....if they ever were.

[@donspeight7921]

All that has changed is that two data items have been removed from the home page of each venue. The fastest time by a male and the fastest time by a female. Nothing else has changed so far as I am aware. All the results are exactly the same with age categories and percentages etc. What's the problem? If you want to judge whether it's a fast course, just look at some of the results.

[@FilmMyRun]

In the video I show exactly what has been removed by comparing the old website to the new one. It’s not the end of the world but it’s certainly more than just make and female records.

[@donspeight7921]

Thanks for the reply. I'd never noticed those additional details. As you say, it's not the end of the world. I really can't understand why people are making such a fuss about it. So far as I can see Parkrun still provides all the benefits you list, not least all the stats to help each individual participant to measure their progress, if they so wish.

[@travellingshoes5241]

Clearly they shelved the records because a Scotsman took the Parkrun record off of an Englishman. Very petty and unsportsmanlike... Or should i say 'Unsportspersonlike'.

[@FilmMyRun]

This

[@markhenry2174]

The problem is they can’t afford to buy ignore it - they have to find a way to remove the issue altogether. some twat from one side or another will either take them to court or certain papers or tv channels will go mental. it’s a societal issue and parkrun can’t be expected to fix it - only avoid it

[@helpmark]

Treating you all like children they are whilst they line their pockets with some handsome salaries across the Parkrun company. Turning it into the school sports day format now where everyone is a 'winner' :) ha ha.

[@singechamberlain2967]

I wonder how quickly they would change their mind if someone started "parkrace"

[@eightw5783]

Not another one. Parkrun hasn't lost the plot everybody who says that hasn't thought beyond demanding what they want (the records back). A man turns up for parkrun and is registered as a woman; who is going to check to make sure that he competes in the correct cat? And it's not just that one person it's everybody who crosses the line. There's already problems with not enough volunteers without throwing this into the mix and how would you check to make sure it's right? Come up with a solution and I'll tell you 2 ways to beat it. Parkrun has handled this the only way they can. (And no beyond volunteering to marshal the course or park cars I have nothing to do with parkrun management.)

[@FilmMyRun]

Yup, I'm with you pretty much 100%. It's tough but I still don't think removing the stats is the answer. It's a cop out. Anyway, another video on the subject out tonight just to stoke the fire even more!!

[@paulhowes5003]

Why give a free run event a hard time. People registering for Parkrun now may be pleased there are no times. It might be their first attempt at exercise and dont want to be judged. Do your 17 runs a year and record your own PB’s and don’t worry about it.

[@FilmMyRun]

Yup, there is that

[@para7429]

This is crazy - trying to beat YOUR OWN PB is exactly the encouragement it takes to get me out there every Saturday. What will happen next?? A Woke Olympics - no records to be broken here!! A world slowly going mad. Let's all pander to the "minority" once again!! Come on Parkrun HQ, take care of the "majority" who goes out there to have fun, meet new friends, beat your PB and finish off with a coffee.

[@ethandalton6480]

The only thing they've got rid of are the course records. You can still see your PB, and your times from each week

[@MartinSewell]

Parkrun is basically a free non-excludable and non-rivalrous race.

[@MeM_UK]

With optional rivalry?

[@nicnak4475]

@@MeM_UK Yeah great fun trying to beat my peers, we all have a great laugh afterwards though.

[@JCeeeeeee.]

All the results are still there, seems to be blown out of proportion. I know what they were trying to do but it hasnt worked apart from getting everyones back up unnecessarily.

[@Guysontherun1]

If you want to run faster, run with people you will never beat. You have to chase the tails of faster runners...

[@debrascott8775]

Pretty sure this mindest is the one parkrun wants to move away from. Its not about faster, its about community

[@Guysontherun1]

@@debrascott8775

[@wardfreeman]

Grudgingly started my personal boycott of our two local Parkruns here in the U.S. this morning. There is aBSolutely no sane reason to delete age graded list and age category best times. These motivators are (were) helpful when one's best times long gone.

[@remedy9448]

Well said. I think I'm going to the same, their loss.

[@clairegreen1455]

Results are still there to see ,its a fun run and trans inclusive as it should be

[@FilmMyRun]

Thank you so much for your comment Claire. Appreciated. Do you feel women have a case asking trans women to register in a different category? Remember also that many of the people who are upset at the loss of records are the stats driven geeks who started parkrun in the first place as a time trial event and are responsible for making it the phenomenon it is today. Does that count for anything do you think?

[@maxal2251]

People with the power always know how to f&@k things up. If someone is too self conscious about looking silly then either don’t go to park run or don’t get your barcode scanned. Nobody cares if someone is ‘last’, your aim is to beat yourself the following week. If you’re park run champ or record holder, that’s excellent. Good achievements shouldn’t be forfeited for the sake of the fragile feelings of the few.

[@FilmMyRun]

This is what I’m trying to say but you said it much better! Haha

[@InYourHeadChangedMan]

I think people take for granted the Volunteers that help out every week, What percentage of Runners help out themselves?Runners can be very selfish they should be made to volunteer once every 5 races

[@FilmMyRun]

Haha yes, see my latest video on the subject to see exactly how many times I’ve volunteered!! It’s not great

[@chasjm21]

Why would they try & undermine something successful, if there's a further objective not met by the current run, create an alternative event on same course or different course, before or after current PR, same day or different day, it's run by volunteers so what's the problem?

[@chambobs]

Great words Mr C.

[@jimlymm]

I've witnessed visiting front runners shouting angrily at my fellow volunteers, because they didn't know where they were going on the course in the pursuit of a meaningless record. There are plenty of competitive runs every weekend, go an do thoese instread. In the words of Parkrun - "People walk at parkrun, others jog, some run, many volunteer, and a few do a bit of everything! You can take part however you want, at whatever speed you want. Everyone is welcome and nobody comes last - there is a tail walker volunteer for that!". If you are expecting anything more than that then maybe your missing the point.

[@PaulB8866]

Regarding course records . The records are indeed removed from home page. .but two clicks and I can see fastest male and female runner at any event .IE the record. They have not gone. Just moved. NOT removed. If you care about records..fair enough .. you can still see it.! It took me 3 seconds.l

[@FilmMyRun]

Oooh this is interesting. News to me. Can you show me exactly where on the website?

[@FilmMyRun]

Oh wait. Sort by male or female first finishers. Yes very good not the age graded though unfortunately

[@PaulB8866]

@@FilmMyRun pick any Park Run event from yesterday. You will see home page (no records). Hover over "results" at top of page and select "event history" then use the "sort by male first finishers" you get list with fastest man at top. The event number and date. As a bonus you see fastest lady (on that day). Follow similar to see ladies list. Benefit is you see second and third etc . Yes indeed. I can't get age graded this way. It's not Called "record " but existing record holders will be at top of this list.

[@PaulB8866]

@@FilmMyRun Park Run presumably could enable sorting by age grading?? They have the data just need the tool. Maybe a good compromise?

[@troys1101]

The "5K" app still gives access to the top 100 and category records.

[@teamblitz1990]

What is a brilliant event and part of the community is in danger of becoming spoiled by the park run organisation

[@jojosuuu]

Paging for Bruce Fordyce! We need the record keeping to come back.