Parkrun FAIL again to bring back the stats // The beginning of the end or a new beginning?

[@PoetWithPace]

If you agree with anyone’s comments here, simply give the comment a thumbs up 👍🏼

[@tweakLeeds2006]

The power has just gone to their heads, the way they are referring to us all as replaceable. I understand progression, however they should have involved us all (like one vote per barcode) by asking the people to vote whether or not for these changes. Parkrun is fantastic, however their next moves on all of this could be really harmful to runners who are interested in their performance on a Saturday.

[@qigong1001]

We’ve all heard the expression “too big to fail.” Then it fails. What’s most shameful is trying to guilt the petitioners by suggesting their actions will hurt charities. Actually, in the long term the opposite will happen. More variety in charitable runs will encourage more participation. Even if prices come down for these runs, it will be easily offset by the increase number of participants and efficiencies built in to competitive practices. And there will be the additional benefit that the individual community runs can target which charity specifically they want to support.

[@alexbrown651]

I think if all parkrunners read the statement, parkrun would simply die on its arse. I was looking forward to getting back into the 5ks but cannot get passed the arrogance of that idiot, like an out of touch head master... would quite happily pay a couple of quid a week for a competitor to set something up.

[@SuperYtc1]

What sort of things would you like to see in a competitor?

[@coops111s]

I’m totally in agreement Alex, what a weirdo these two from Parkrun are 🙈

[@AndyCliffMTB]

“It’s our playground, we set the rules. If you don’t like it, go and play somewhere else..”Paul SH actually said that? How sad, I’m a massive Parkrun supporter and passed 125 runs last weekend. Removal of even more results is bizarre. I wonder whether their sponsors with the latest agendas have piled on the pressure and Parkrun have caved in. I know of no one who has been discouraged or disheartened by the results, quite the opposite in my experience. And that’s since 2016. I signed the petition yesterday.

[@chilloutvibesforyou]

Not sure what it is like in England but since the removal of stats in Australia the attendance has grown significantly. I've nearly reached 300 Parkrun's and I originally went to Parkrun thinking it wasn't timed, it was just a casual run on a Saturday morning! How wrong was I, it was timed, it seemed like a race, there were people knocking other people out of the way, runners not giving way to local pedestrians and bikes, people racing at the end and knocking over volunteers, people complained about their times being wrong, and that they had been given the wrong token or their photo wasn't taken for Gods sake. I nearly never went back again. Yes, I also enter races and have been running for well over 55 years and am usually 1st in my age group. I would still go to Parkrun if it wasn't timed at all, just so I could run with other people.

[@AlbertWeijers]

Thank you for your view! I also was not happy that they were removing some stats, but I understand it. You can't go chasing a PB in a public park. Go to a proper 5k race course that is purely for racing.

[@61js]

Sounds rough Down Under.

[@Runner_Emma]

Hi Donato, thanks for raising this. Yes, it is very disappointing but not surprising. I was an ambassador until 5 weeks ago, just to correct your query - no core team volunteers are paid, whether that be Run Directors, Event Directors or ambassadors. parkrun have approx 65 paid staff (I think it's approx that number) who are obvs employed by parkrun. Hope that helps.

[@GaryManders-w7q]

Parkrun has made its own problem by allowing it's stats to become part of the national sporting statistics in the first place as it was never the intention..it's into a race never has been but has from the out set been a time trial..and a social run but has never been about competitive sport..it's always been a source of frustration to myself of those who insist in call it race.. justifying the stance because there are place positions and timing which are clearly there to monitor achievement on a personal level..there is nothing confusing about this it's pretty straightforward .. however what I do find puzzling is the arrogant nature of parkrun letter which is obviously deliberate and what their intention is..doesn't give me the impression of an organisation that wants to grow and more of one that is struggling to cope with what is there trying to be all things to everyone..strikes me that they are looking for a way out without having to admit they cannot cope with juggernaut it has become..and are looking for a way to redefine itself into something more manageable

[@geoffhenning3574]

When I originally read the letter I was very disappointed by the arrogance obtained. As an experienced parkrunner and volunteer it's making me question my participation in an event run in this way. We all know the real reason this has been done it's the gender reporting issue. The huge elephant in the room which has totally inadequately addressed. Final thought. Do you remember Ratners ........ I hope my comments add to the debate.

[@NikonP1000.]

I've lost all respect for Paul Sinton Hewitt, no more donations, no more purchases from sponsors.

[@SuperYtc1]

Wouldn't surprise me if he's been laundering a load of money about. I bet he's made millions off of Parkrun.

[@daveb5375]

massively arrogant comments on his part weren't they (assuming it was reported accurately)

[@61js]

Interesting to note, he stated, "we are not a community led organisation ". Yet in a statement on Parkrun France website, regarding the suspension of parkrun in France( over the wrangle of the requirement of a doctor supplied health certificate at each parkrun) It states, parkrun has never asked for a health certificate because, and I quote "because we pride ourselves on being a community event". I smell horseshit.

[@meepmeep1313]

Community and community-led are not the same thing. I could, for example, run a flower show in my local village hall that is open to local residents, but make all the decisions as to how its run. That would then be a community event that is not community-led.

[@61js]

​@meepmeep1313 It was originally cited as community led, so yes, I agree with you. However, if the community doesn't take the lead by providing volunteers, parkrun is dead and buried. But there again the powers that be sound as they don't really care about volunteers who give up their spare time anyway. And yes I do volunteer. Also another statement by parkrun illustrating how they change their tune. Again on the France issue, parkrun legal advisors suggested removing timings and placing among other things, so a parkrun could be defined as non competitive. Parkrun responded by saying " placings and times are a basic ethos of parkrun " I've noticed that statement has now been removed.

[@Ultrarunnerdad]

tbh, I don't care about the parkrun stats. I just run there with my friends and put it in as a tempo for my training as and when needed. They can keep the stats binned for me. I'll still go run at parkrun.

[@61js]

But did you care when the stats were there though? That's the issue, could you care less either way.

[@Ultrarunnerdad]

@@61js I used to look at them, but don't miss them.

[@daveb5375]

@@Ultrarunnerdad ok so you used to look at them so at one point they were "important"?

[@Ultrarunnerdad]

@@daveb5375 No, not important at all, you can look without investing any interest.

[@anthonypower7048]

Thanks for sharing Donato, it is very disappointing, run parkrun for various reasons sometimes to see if can (could) challenge an age record, a fun run, part of a training block, catch up with friends, so this arrogance is disappointing to say the least, obviously money changes everything and seldom for the better. Will keep park running because at grass roots it is still wonderful. Finally on Stats don't believe it has put anyone off, as most social park runners I know, are not aware records existed or if did know, they don't care, therefore to bring them back is a no brainer.

[@derekrunsagain]

Totally agree. The more of us that put out videos on this topic the better to try and protect parkrun.

[@lisamcnally1334]

Thanks Donato. You really made me laugh out loud with that line at 2:16... "At the end of the day, I really don't give a sh*t." I love that - and it pretty much sums up my philosophy on life these days. 😀

[@MrCol104]

Cheers Donato. Find this whole business quite sad. Money has ruined something which was so beautiful. Removal of stats is the tip of the iceberg. As mentioned, this is first step of a 5 year plan which will almost certainly see the removal of all results. Their complete and utter contempt of runners and volunteers is quite shameful. Some of the quotes are so out of order, I question if they're real. Suggesting any stay away runner or volunteer won't be missed as they will replaced by 100 new people is so arrogant. I haven't done parkrun since 3rd February. I did run last Saturday but deliberately didn't take my barcode so am not listed on results. Seeing this letter has got me so annoyed and its pretty certain I won't ever do parkrun again. "Parkrun is our playground - if you don't like it, go play elsewhere". That's fine - I'll play elsewhere.

[@AlbertWeijers]

What are you on about? Contempt for runners and volunteers? I'm a runner and volunteer and I have no problems with it. YOU have a problem with it, that's fine, don't speak for the rest of us.

[@MrCol104]

@@AlbertWeijers Untangle your knickers. 😆🤣😂 Who said Im speaking for everybody? I’m speaking for myself.

[@AlbertWeijers]

@@MrCol104 So were do you get the "contempt for RunnerS and volunteerS" from? That's plural, is it not?

[@MrCol104]

@@AlbertWeijers 😆 You’re clearly after an argument, hence the keyboard warrior, aggressive responses. Shouldn’t really respond but for what it’s worth, I think they’re treating everybody with disrespect. That’s my opinion and nobody else’s. You can have your opinion and that’s fine.

[@mim2215]

I find the arrogance of Paul S-H astounding. To put this into perspective: I was drawn into Parkrun by my daughter - as a 70 year old mum with slightly dodgy knees (and carrying a bit of weight round the middle) I actually Parkwalk every week. From the moment I started Parkrun just under 2 years ago, I have NEVER felt intimidated by course records and the fact that most people's times are faster than mine, and one of my favourite things is seeing what time I did and whether it was faster than my last outing. I hate it that they removed so many stats, why not celebrate people's achievements? To hear that they don't give a damn about the opinions of Parkrunners is very depressing.

[@waterfallstudios5746]

Yeah very interesting 🤨 I can see they could be opening themselves up for increased competition elsewhere for example increased runthrough local events, others like yourself setting up events. Parkrun will get what it wants just new runners wanting to start out which is great and all, but anybody above intermediate will just move away, wanting a sense of competition

[@callmeal4183]

“It’s our playground.” I don’t think so. Parkrun make use of others’ ground to play on. If an alternative organisation is set up, with alternative race directors, marshals, timekeepers, website etc. I presume that parkrun would be powerless to challenge this interloper. Could an alternate organisation just swoop in and take over? Same course. Same people? As I understand it, parkrun is dependent on its volunteers. Every week I read Facebook messages from race directors pleading for volunteers. Without volunteers would parkrun be a viable entity?

[@vikroy3777]

For my local parkruns there is an opposite problem, too many people looking to volunteer.

[@callmeal4183]

@@vikroy3777 You lucky, lucky people!

[@callmeal4183]

@@vikroy3777 You lucky lucky people!

[@st4331]

Very sad to see such arrogance. Even if they have sound reasons, which they don't seem to have explained, their attitude is appalling. Regarding Orange, it merged with T-mobile and became EE, which is the leading UK mobile operator.

[@neilsumner6440]

Paul sinton-hewitt could have been remembered as a great man who created something absolutely wonderful, but he chose to spoil it instead.His attitude is mind blowingly arrogant. I'll continue with parkrun for now, but I do think it's only a matter of time before it'll become just a meaningless run that you can do pretty much anywhere.What is so wrong with having an email with your result and time. Crazy thinking, parkrun!!👎

[@pupface]

I do think it's a shame they have gone, but I can't get all that bothered by it. I do feel a bit annoyed by how dismissive parkrun are and how terrible they are at communicating. I have become aware that when I am volunteering I am effectively helping to pay the salaries of these people at HQ.

[@JM-rm3lt]

Beginning of the end. Myself and a few locally are already discussing setting up our own thing. wokewalk is only going one way sadly.

[@AlbertWeijers]

It's the end of the world as we know it! But I feel fine.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

parkrun attendance hasn't gone down since the stats removal, it's doing absolutely fine.

[@JM-rm3lt]

@@michaeldallaway1988 let’s see when timing and positions are removed.

[@meepmeep1313]

Orange made €43 billion last year, and for the 4G rollout in the UK was rebranded as EE, currently the second largest mobile company in the country.

[@eddycurrant1380]

its interesting that at work performance is constantly measured and related to pay, accountants measure corporate performance, schools are rated, pupils and students are rated in continual assessments and final exams, economists measure economies etc... You don't have to play the numbers game, but its really hard not too and not surprisingly somewhat ingrained. Cant make up my mind if parkrun should reflect that , or be a number free refuge honestly. Think I would do it anyway, sure I would.

[@mijzzzz]

not impressed at all. I will not be purchasing any pr merch. dumbing us all down to a big fat zero.😡

[@clare9695]

Your point about volunteers was well made, local parkruns would simply cease without the core volunteer teams. As a regular parkrun volunteer myself, I feel it's sheer arrogance for HQ to assume that core teams are so easily replaceable, they're really not. Certainly where I live, most volunteers are drawn from running clubs, and there's already a lot of disquiet about the recent changes. This latest development won't help at all.

[@vikroy3777]

If you have a problem with parkrun not being geared towards people making 16 minute 5k's then parkrun was never for you.

[@stevo0861]

I completed my 252nd parkrun on the 27th April and I have now buggered off. Get rid of those 2 muppets and I might return, but I'm stat hungry. 😄

[@vikroy3777]

When you call people muppets maybe it's better for everyone if you do move on

[@davidjuson5608]

As many people have noted, HQ are not being honest with us. This is about the "trans issue" and parkrun not being in a position to deal with it like other ... or if you prefer, like a sporting associations do. Having no idea what the solution to this complicated situation myself I am disinclined, for the time being, to be over critical. That said, I have signed the petition and will continue to voice my disapproval.

[@josephgonzalez_]

I’m aghast at their attitude. Even if they don’t want to go back on their decision their PR is abismal. This really has tarnished their brand in my mind. However, they know runners will continue to keep running so they can do what they want. However, should they ever choose to stop timing the runs then the gloves will come off and I think most will stop.

[@gokiwi2642]

Good chance for some super entrepreneur people to start up something similar to the Saturday Park Run & keep all the runners stats history,

[@jamesmoss5404]

Hey Donato, it’s really difficult. What to say I agree parkrun community and the people who volunteer are excellent. The letter is frustrating to be honest I don’t have the correct words without adding insults . Basically this says like it or lump it is how I take it. It’s a shame Parkrun has to be so arrogant as in Paul responses. They won’t bring back the stats, but it’s good there is pressure to do something . Thanks for your video .

[@coops111s]

It’s quite staggering this letter from Parkrun, they cannot address the transgender issue factually, there arrogance is childish, please please Dinarto get something started

[@vinnyw4724]

I love Parkrun like you all. Every organisation as they get bigger falls foul of moving away from some of its original ideals. However, its hard to imagine the pressures the original founders have to stick to those ideals where. There would have been simple things that at its beginnings they would have never imagined they would be challenged or taken to task about. Unfortunately, we live in a litigious world where trying to do a good thing could and may have led to legal challenges (potentially costly). Whilst I didn't agree with the removal of the various stats being removed the unintended consequences of having them have led to abuse or making some people vulnerable. This i believe the difficulties of making decisions - you don't get it always right and you never can please everyone. One of Parkruns main aims was to improve the health of individuals, bring people together and remove the stigma of running. It's free and for us all. Its admirable, amazing and have touched many lives. It's not a sport in the way of it being a fee/paid competition but yes its a sport in terms of physical exercise, competing against yourself and friendly competing against others. Many a time i use the person in front as a marker with the intention of reeling them in and passing them in (though my reality is I see their heels speeding away from me in the distance). Yes we definitely would like to keep times. I could say so much more. But thanks to you for raising this debate. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's run. Let's volunteer. Let's be healthy. Let's be friends. Thanks

[@Runner_Emma]

Next change will surely be to change the volunteer name of Run Director?

[@Yaffleful]

They're clearly panicking a bit at the top and it's meant they've come out with all this contradictory (and arrogant) stuff. It's only a minuscule number of people complaining, there'll be hundreds more to take our pace? At the same time we are big enough to do real damage to parkrun? Which is it? Telling the people who do the actual volunteering, week in, week out that they are disposable is a terrible move. I've got a volunteer ratio of about 30% (over 300 parkruns and over 100 volunteers) and I won't be volunteering again until something changes.

[@vikroy3777]

Lots of volunteers don't see it as a race. When you have the average finish time of 30+ minutes then a small number of people finishing fast doesn't make up the bulk of your day.

[@garyd2448]

It amazes me that Parkrun with the stats in place grow from nothing to world wild. I think that this is pure shite. Why call it Parkrun when a lot of walkers walk? That's one issue in winter that puts off people from volunteering. It's a sport and the times help people try and achieve personal goals! Bring back the stats!

[@stevehumphries8070]

If it’s not a race why is it then timed and position tokens are given out?

[@vikroy3777]

People like to see themselves progress not necessarily against others but themselves.

[@callmeal4183]

@@vikroy3777 Great comment.

[@meepmeep1313]

if it is a race, why are the 99% of runners who have no chance of winning turning up?

[@stevehumphries8070]

@@meepmeep1313 because they are racing themselves not everyone else.

[@Eddie-Spaghetti]

Donato I love that you don’t give a s*it mate that was funny 😆

[@daveb5375]

Jiggy jog with Donato. Sign me up 🙂

[@PoetWithPace]

Lets do it Dave!

[@stevehumphries8070]

What a shit attitude from Sinton Hewitt to say if people left due to their disgruntled views there would be 100 queuing up to take their place. That doesn’t sit well with me at all. Basically not giving a toss about the run directors and runners who have helped make park run the success it is today.

[@vikroy3777]

I don't know anyone who volunteered for parkrun because they want to support people finishing in 16 minutes etc

[@AlbertWeijers]

I think the attitude is because the movement that questions their decision, some people in this movement think that that gives them a reason to harass the parkrun management. They question their integrity which is wrong. They didn't start parkrun so many years ago to annoy people and any decision they make is with runners best interests in mind. It's not nice not to trust them to do the right thing.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

It's an exaggeration but he's right in terms of numbers - there hasn't been a marked slump in attendance. In fact parkrun has recorded some of its highest weekly participation stats since the changes.

[@61js]

And do you what will happen next? There is already active discouragement not to indulge in parkrun tourism because it will apparently cause a climate catastrophe with all the travelling involved. I could foresee you having to nominate 1 parkrun, which will be registered and considered as your local parkrun. Then, any attendance at a different venue you would be listed in the results as something along the lines of "Unauthorised" with no time, etc. Name listed as an attempt to shame you 😂.If actually there are any times then. On the other hand, being listed as Unauthorised could become a badge of honour and have the opposite effect. Runners clammering to see who can get their wrists slapped the most.

[@philsmusicandtrailrunning8074]

If there's no stats, what exactly are parkrun offering? Why would it even be called parkrun if they're no longer appealing to Runners. How about just call it "random stroll in a park with no reason to be there" ? How are they going to attract all these new participants if they don't actually do anything? It's all run by volunteers. How can they say it costs a lot to run events when they don't even fund the events - the startup costs are raised by the schmucks who think it's a good idea to start a parkrun.

[@AlbertWeijers]

There are still stats only not event records.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

What are parkrun offering? A weekly timed 5k event available around the world which you don't have to pay for.

[@61js]

​@@michaeldallaway1988 Which looks like being removed as well. Think that was the gist.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

@@61js which part is being removed? If you mean taking timing away (which I don't think they will). You can just time your run on Strava. parkrun events are already on there. People bothered by stats can get the data they want.

[@MarathonRunningTom]

I'm starting a petition to have them change their name to Wokerun.

[@daddykornflakes]

Parkrun, as with most things, is all about money now, and they just want to pander to the woke culture and fall in line with other big corporations.

[@vikroy3777]

My first parkruns were over 30 minutes. I used to wonder what it's like to start from the front but i couldn't because of people taking it too seriously and not being a 'proper' runner. Why can't they circulate who gets to start from the front? Instead of trying take up a sport and squashed to the back not being able to see or hear anything.

[@20yearsagotoday1]

I’m confused here and I don’t understand why people are getting so upset. Parkrun isn’t a race. It’s a community event where you can run for 5k every week and not pay for the privilege. There are marshals who offer their services and time for free and encouragement comes from them, other runners and spectators. You can time yourself and see your own progression easily if that’s what you want or you can simply turn up, run/walk/laugh/cry etc etc and go home. Why is there all the moaning about the stats being erased? Surely having stats wasn’t the real reason why a person went along to do their first Parkrun? Let’s focus less on the politics and focus more on the bloody great atmosphere and community feel that a Parkrun brings with it. If you want stats look on Strava after each event. If you don’t care, go along and just have a great blooming experience.

[@61js]

Were people getting upset with the stats being there though? Judging by the number of weekly participants up until stats removal I would sat absolutely not. People couldn't care less. So why bother removing them.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

​@@61js31,000 people got their barcode last week. 26,000 people have signed the petition, for all the time its been running. parkrun is doing absolutely fine.

[@namits3775]

RIP Parkrun

[@CoyoteTwins]

It’s now wokerun

[@darrensankey7821]

Run parkrun for fun if u want a fast time or race sign up to one where there's alot more runners of your ability. Its embassing seeing a 16min 5k runner turning up and running flat out at parkrun 🤦

[@Osloscribe]

Why is it embarrassing? I think it’s inspiring. I’m 53, female and have never run sub-22. Never will, but I love seeing those that can as much as encouraging people who take 57 mins.

[@sparkie007007]

Here, here… couldn’t agree more! I too find the sub 20mins runners very inspiring. I especially like to see fast older runners. To help with my own running progression (as an older runner). It’s great to watch and analyse their running style/gait to help me with my own progression.

[@stevo0861]

How is it embarrasing? It's inspiring. I'm in awe of those runners who pass me in the opposite direction, crossing the finish line, while I still have 1.5K to run. Are you a sore loser?

[@61js]

I'm not embarrassed, I'm impressed.

[@gavinm7385]

Your comment is embarrassing.

[@michaeldallaway1988]

Youre not going to like this, but if anything has put me off parkrun in the last few months it has been the 'bring back the stats' movement. Parkrun attendance worldwide hasn't been adversely affected by the decision to remove the stats, with record attendance figures in weeks following the decision. In fact more people got their barcode last week than have signed the 'bring back the stats' petition in all the time it has been running. If you use strava you can compare your stats for the run with others anyway. Win win.

[@AlbertWeijers]

Dear stat-nerds, get over it! I was also a bit annoyed at the removal of some stats but I accepted the reality, that's always good for our mental health. Of course you also can let it define your running life. I'm watching some flat earth debunking videos lately. These flat earthers have also problems accepting reality. Don't be like that!

[@61js]

If there had been a very good reason to remove the stats, then yes, you accept it and carry on. But when you are fed a tale of BS, then it becomes an issue of dishonesty. And that is the reality.

[@AlbertWeijers]

@@61js There is a good reason, you just disagree with it.