Part 1: Empire and Righteous Nation: 600 Years of China-Korea Relations

The Harvard University Fairbank Center for Chinese Studies presents the 2016 Reischauer Lecture with speaker Odd Arne Westad (Harvard University, John F. Kennedy School of Government).
Part One focus: China and Korea from 1392 to the late 19th Century
Speaker: Odd Arne Westad is the S.T. Lee Professor of U.S.-Asia Relations at Harvard University, where he teaches at the Kennedy School of Government. He is an expert on contemporary international history and on the eastern Asian region.
Before coming to Harvard in 2015, Westad was School Professor of International History at the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE). While at LSE, he directed LSE IDEAS, a leading center for international affairs, diplomacy and strategy.
Professor Westad won the Bancroft Prize for "The Global Cold War: Third World Interventions and the Making of Our Times." The book, which has been translated into fifteen languages, also won a number of other awards. Westad served as general editor for the three-volume "Cambridge History of the Cold War," and is the author of the "Penguin History of the World" (now in its 6th edition). His most recent book, "Restless Empire: China and the World since 1750," won the Asia Society’s book award for 2013.
Discussant: Kirk W. Larsen, Brigham Young University
Moderator: Michael A. Szonyi, Director of the Fairbank Center for Chinese Studies, Professor of Chinese History

[@eddychun9601]

Where can I buy dr. Westad’s book, empire and righteous nation? Or PDF file or copy or used book?

[@hp0635]

Good content. Koreans cite the Joseon-Qing War as the most hated moment in Korean history. Joseon did not look back on itself even though it was devastated by previous war and internal disturbances. Instead, they shouted only 'righteous' and lost horribly. We are saddened to see the incident. I think I got some answers about why Joseon had to hang on 'righteous' like that. This is not just drunkenness with moral pride. It was a means of survival to gather even the lowest-level residents.

[@princecoffee2349]

金史 “金之始祖諱函普, 初從高麗來" The founder of the Geum(Qing, China's last dynasty) was from Goryeo.(korea) Agolta, the 8th generation descendant of Goryeo-born ancestors who united the Manchus called Goryeo as the country of his parents. recorded in manchurian history books 松漠紀聞, 金史, 高麗史

[@brandonscientia5433]

History has written that the Korean peninsula was a vassal state of China for approximately 2000 years, especially during the Ming and Qing dynasties. Then Joseon fell into the hands of the Japanese, and after it was "liberated" by the United States, so that now they are trying to twist their embarrassing history and cheer up what the United States ordered, we can see the true character of Koreans. China for 2000 years tried to civilize this savage society with a noble culture, but after getting a new master, namely the United States, they forgot themselves, and even felt arrogant, feeling protected by the United States. South Korea really deserves to be a vassal state for the next 2000 years, and that is their destiny in the history of humanity.

[@BlackFlashDrive]

38:54 saving time

[@bjhwang2278]

Mr. Westad, it is good point, however, i strongly suggest you to see below documentary( kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKLCpp-OaqyhZsk) which is about the war between Old China(Sui, Tang) and Old Korea(Goguryo) 1500 years ago. I can not agree with you on your opinion of saying, Korea has the substance of 'nation' since 300 years ago. Koreans have had perception of nation since at least 3000 years ago which they thought we are different from China!!!

[@bjhwang2278]

@Justin Xie This is Shilla's strategic and deplomatic stance to get Tang's military supoort, fighting Baekjae and Goguryo, and it was successful, because the could defeat Baekjae and Goguryo in alliance with Tang. However, once it was done, Shilla had to fight against Tang, because Tang wanted to rull all of Korean penininsula. And Shilla defeated Tang, with support Baekjae people and Goguryo people together.(because these 2 country people didn't like Shilla, but knew they are all from Chosun/Dangun, and because they knew Tang/Chinese are different from Korean.) For Korean's point of view, it is shame to get unified by Shilla, the weakest country of 3 Kingdom, but, that's why we call it 3 kingdom unification. It was half unification though.

[@bjhwang2278]

@Justin Xie Hei. We should be objective. You guys, Hanzhu(漢族) were conquered by Mongolian(元) in 1276, and you guys(1Billion) were the lowest slaves in the country for 100 years!!!, following Mongolians, Color eyed, Jurchens. You Chinese guys established your own country(明), however, you guys were again conquered by Jurchens(後金) which later on changed country name 淸. You guys(1.5 Billions) were 2nd level citizens, rulled by 2 Millions of Jurchens, such as the slaves of Jurchens for 296 years from 1616 to 1912. During 元, 淸, mainland China(中原, the territory of 漢族) was colony, and you 漢族 didn't have any of dynasty of your own, while we were runnung Goryo(高麗) and Chosun(朝鮮). It is ridiculous for you Chinese guys talk about these story. You guys should be ashamed for the era, and should not be able to talk about independancy of Korean dynasties. You may say, China is multi racial country....?, but does not make sense at all ans only ridiculous. Great wall(萬里長城) tells everything which was to prevent invasion from Qurans, Jurchens, Mongloians, Koreans, Turkish which these are not Chinese. You Chinese got independant only after 1912!!!! from Jurchens!!!! Looking forward to your reply Cheers!!!

[@bjhwang2278]

@Justin Xie As for Sunjo(宣祖), your mentioning the clause is about when Japan invaded Korea(朝鮮) in 1592, and he was running away to China. Yes, there was era which mainstream of Chosun's political power were respecting 明 and Zhuxi(朱子), believing/following 性理學. But he was denied by his son(光海), and is thought as one of several incapable kings out of 26 kings. I would like you not to be confused/misunderstood between realility and political/deplomatic rhetoric.

[@bjhwang2278]

@Justin Xie One thing clear. Your pride 淸 dynasty is not you 漢族's history, but is of Jurchens/Manchurians. 2nd. 漢子 is not the letter of China, but is the writing system of all the east asian countries, including Vietman. Your 漢 dynasty or 秦始皇 didn't invent 漢子, but simply did standadization. The system have been in use here and there, and they called it 文子(letters as it is), and passing through 秦 and 漢, you started call it 漢子. That's it. 3rd, another your pride Sui 文帝 invaded Korea with 300,000 troops, but almost all soldiers were killed and only several thousand could survive, and 文帝 left 遺言 to his people not to try to invade Goguryo ever again. Nevertheless, Sui 2nd king 煬帝 invaded Goguryo with 1.13 million troops(in Chinese history book even says over 2 million), but again less than 3000 survided and went back to China, and the king was killed in dishonour by his subordinate. The biggest scale of war before world war II in human history ever, and you say 'Korea was out of interest to Chinese people' ???? 4th. Another your pride, Tang Taizhong 李世民, he invaded to Goguryo again with 800,000 troops, but finally he was defeated by Goguryo and he was killed due to aftereffect of wound during the war. 2ns biggest scale of war in Human history before World war II, you say, 'Korea was not of their interest..'???? Interesting logic. -.- 5th. It is not only 2 times when you 漢族 was conquered by other races. Even your biggest pride Tang dynasty. They are not 漢族, but is 鮮卑族. Your pride Sui dynasty, they are not 漢族, but is 鮮卑族. So are 北魏, 燕. They are all your calling nomadic races with no civilization ????? Your another pride 宋 was dedeated by 契丹族, who found 遼 dynasty and rulled north part(above 黃河) of China for 209 years from AD 916 to 1125 till when Mongol conquered China. Again Mongol rulled main land China for 162 years. So, 隨, 唐, 邀, 元, 淸 are not the countries of your pride 漢族, but you guys were rulled by them, and you guys were living there. And you guys are pretending as if you guys are the master(主人), which in reality have been slaves, rulled by 異民族(other races)!!! Sui 37 years, Tang 289 years, 遼 dynasty 209 years, Yuan元 162 years, 淸 268 years Total 965 years out of 1439 years (from Sui till now year 2020) conquered by 異民族. Amazing !!!! Looking forward to your refutation.

[@kaliskunkog2255]

As an Asian that have no bias towards the history being debated, i find keyboard warriors made more sense without use of personal attacks and bj hwang was condescending and quite disrespectful. Bj hwang...the supremacist thinking will get you no where in life. What matters most importantly is the current and future.

[@bongsunhwa]

Korea was independent country for thousands years. Korea did not want to have confrontation with China to secure their independence. That is why Korea admit Chinese Emperor. For Korean it meant ally with China. As much as USA is the most important country in the world for all countries today, China was the most important country for Korea. Having diplomatic trouble with them was not good for Korea. It is all. China could not interfere anything in Korea.

[@lbchen6160]

Золотой Кабан no. China chose king for Korea. Korean king could not choose their king

[@windorchid2119]

@@lbchen6160 Did USA select Xi Jinping for China's current emperor? If you say yes, then I will say China chose Korea's king ;)

[@user-gp5mi8uk2y]

@@lbchen6160 no, that was only late 14th, the end of Koryu dynasty period. Before that Korea never did. And after 14th century, Korea must to have approval from China to be a King but It was not like Chinese choice. Korean government or king decides who's gonna be next king the first and then (kinda)report to China.(form of approval)

[@KingofKpop]

@@lbchen6160 no, empire in China approved the ruler not chosen by China. Don't get wrong idea. Korean ruling clans chosen their own king. But, did China ever had their own Chinese emperor? Mostly foreign emperor ruling China.

[@lbchen6160]

Kochigachi I’m Manchurian and we are also Chinese.

[@protestantwarrior1516]

Qing is not Chinese, it is Manchu, cousin of Koreanic race.

[@yulrikim8779]

@Keyboard Emperor Tang Dynasty had occupied whole Chinese territories ruled all Han Chinese,Hanzu 漢族 which made up 92% of total population in China. Tang Dynasty is not considered as Han Chinese’s history. China is technically a multicultural country. It is different from Korea history. Silla might have had to compromise with Tang Dynasty as Tang was a big empire in that era. However, it does not mean that Korea is a part of China.

[@RKarmaKill]

Uh uh uh um um um um I I I I I uh uh its its

[@jpaek969]

There are two major forces continuously fought for the control of The East Asia mainland. First civilization "The Whanguk" Empire by Dong-I, Koreans was established 9 thousand years ago and The Empire thrived through the ages and kept the Dong-I legacy and heritage. Koreans believe Whanguk is their direct ancestor who lead the early days of the Empire for 7 thousand years until Hawha, Chinese united "The Han dynasty". Ever since Dong-E Korea moved away from main land and settled in North-East, Manju and Korea until the end of 19th century. In conclusion, Dong-I Koreans have influenced enormously and were the leader and the creator of proto-Chinese culture and civilization.

[@brandonscientia5433]

History has written that the Korean peninsula was a vassal state of China for approximately 2000 years, especially during the Ming and Qing dynasties. Then Joseon fell into the hands of the Japanese, and after it was "liberated" by the United States, so that now they are trying to twist their embarrassing history and cheer up what the United States ordered, we can see the true character of Koreans. China for 2000 years tried to civilize this savage society with a noble culture, but after getting a new master, namely the United States, they forgot themselves, and even felt arrogant, feeling protected by the United States. South Korea really deserves to be a vassal state for the next 2000 years, and that is their destiny in the history of humanity.

[@yjj18071807]

🐕 소리

[@BrakeCoach]

망신되게 환빠 드립 치지 마라;;;

[@howardjung5413]

Where were the Korean states in the history? Certainly not on the Korean peninsula. How could Qublai Khan pass Koryo returning from a battle against South Song where he was greeted by the Goyreo King? Goryeo government fled to Ganghwa island and stayed there for more than 58 year during the mongol invasion. There is no space on the todays Ganghwa island for such inhabitation with palasts and even several monastries. All battles of Lee sun shin were fought on rivers. Korean rivers are not big enough for such battles. Marco Polos Mangi and Rashid ad Dins Macin is Korea, which is 9 times bigger than China.

[@brandonscientia5433]

History has written that the Korean peninsula was a vassal state of China for approximately 2000 years, especially during the Ming and Qing dynasties. Then Joseon fell into the hands of the Japanese, and after it was "liberated" by the United States, so that now they are trying to twist their embarrassing history and cheer up what the United States ordered, we can see the true character of Koreans. China for 2000 years tried to civilize this savage society with a noble culture, but after getting a new master, namely the United States, they forgot themselves, and even felt arrogant, feeling protected by the United States. South Korea really deserves to be a vassal state for the next 2000 years, and that is their destiny in the history of humanity.

[@brandonscientia5433]

In fact, the longest Japanese colony in Asia was Korea, Joseon at that time. Since 1905 Joseon (Korea) has officially become a Japanese protectorate😅🤣😂, and since 1910 there has been no official Joseon anymore😛😝🤪👋👋👋, because it was annexed by Japan. Until 1945 it was liberated by the USA, and continued to be occupied by the US army from 1945-1948💔💩💩😓. Before becoming a Japanese slave, Joseon was a vassal state of Ming and Qing China. You can't deny it!😎😝🤪😜 Even Goryeo is a Yuan Monggol's dog💩🦮, the kings of Goryeo have bastard blood flowing from Monggol. The most astonishing thing was that Queen Myeongseong was mass raped by Japanese ronins, in cooperation with her own father-in-law, more impressively her son Sunjong and her husband Gojong only saw their mother and wife being raped, killed and burned. From here we can see the mentality of cowardly Korean men!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 Data from the Japanese imperialists themselves stated that prostitutes from Korean women made up the most composition of all Japanese colonies at that time, around 58%. It seems that Korean women do enjoy themselves being exploited by foreign nations.👍🧏‍♀😘😛😝🤪😜 In the Korean Civil War in the 1950s, so weak South Korean men could not fight the communists from the north that they had to ask for help from the US Army. Since that time began the era of the United States "protectorate" over South Korea until now. Good for you!😛👏👏👏👏👏👏 So do not pretend and behave a lot in front of other nations, O you colonized nation!😎🥳 Suck it up, your fatatic history !!!😜🤪😝🤭💯💢