Did Topping Just Own the Entire DAC Market? Topping Centaurus & D90 Discrete first impressions

[@thehawk05]

I’ll say one thing that a lot of folks were put off with about the Centaurus: The day it launched on their dealer sites it was $799 USD. Even Topping reps were promoting it on the audio forums launching at that price. Day after launch after the hype and excitement on the audio forums: Price jumped to $999 🙄

[@dominich.9745]

Ordered mine at $799 and was shocked to see it at $999 so I checked my invoice and I did get it for $799 but that is dirty pool I wouldn’t have jumped in it at $999 blind.

[@DieTabbi]

For $999 I would go for other brands

[@PassionforSound]

I wasn't aware of all that and don't know the details behind the price change, but I'll be reviewing and considering the Centaurus at the $999 price when I do the full review. I think it'll still stack up well based on early impressions.

[@fon75]

@@thehawk05 Hi. As I have been informed the 799 was a miscommunication from Topping and it was meant to be 999 from the start.

[@fon75]

I may have the first D90 Discrete that came to Europe. When listened to on some super revealing Elacs it is so detailed that you can hear all the trickery done in mixing, simply unbelievable. Compared to RME ADI-2 FS the D90 is MUCH more resolved and revealing, but when I listen on my Wharfedales there isn't much of a difference, but I still prefer the D90.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@thenowornerverkid1]

This is the best DAC, no, this is the. best DAC, no, this one.

[@carlosalvarez7445]

C'mon man... yes, there's every day a rat race for new DACs, but Lachlan was careful to highlight differences and not say which one is better. I personally think this diversity of alternative DACs is exciting because we are not caught in the cage of a single type of sound delivery, I think it's great.

[@chocholatemilkshake4799]

I watch 100 video of diffrent people from audio segmenf. They all have best DAC.

[@topheavy7616]

Since you made this comment 10 new best DACS have entered the market.

[@PassionforSound]

Every DAC has the potential to be the best DAC for someone. That said, I'm very careful to not declare anything as the best because it's all about preferences and circumstances.

[@CookinBeatloaf]

You have to be happy with what you have to be happy with what

[@mov3d-strengthforliving717]

I can't wait for the full Topping Centaurus R2R Dac review. Thanks .

[@stevendavis1135]

I had to get off the dac merry go round. Brought a schiit bifrost 2/64 and called it a day.

[@_DeepGroove_]

The day after…

[@PassionforSound]

Great choice! Impossible to go wrong there.

[@cosmicheretic8129]

Same here with a JNOG J3 PRO.

[@PassionforSound]

Another great choice!

[@nonchalantd]

Useful quick comparisons like this are appreciated.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm glad it was helpful!

[@dixieflatline1189]

The Centaurus is competing in the same bracket as Cyan2 & Ares 15th etc. That's a tough gig - so really interested in a review aganist them rather than the Harmony

[@PassionforSound]

I don't own either of those so I can't compare to them.

[@geardawg1358]

Topping's new R2R has me a bit Hyped, hope they do it right!

[@sean_heisler]

You just crushed Tharbamar’s world, world premiering this before he did.

[@PassionforSound]

😂

[@toddt5562]

Yeah finally another reviewer got to say something before Tharbamar declared it as his next next next best thing of the day... 😂

[@dtdcampbell]

Much appreciate the quick initial impressions before the full review. Will be interested what opinions are on the Centaurus and how it compares to the Cyan 2 I was planning on eventually ordering.

[@PassionforSound]

I won't be able to compare with the Cyan 2, but I will have enough other comparison points that you should get a good sense of where it sits.

[@droptables7663]

The D90 discrete is a great dac. Looking forward to hearing your review on the Topping R2R.

[@chickenheads3746]

NICE BLOODY SHIRT, LACHLAN!!! Happy holidays , thx for the awesome reviews all year!!

[@PassionforSound]

I'm glad you liked it! You could have one too from the Passion for Sound merch store! 😂 Happy holidays to you too. Hope it's an enjoyable and music filled time.

[@chickenheads3746]

@@PassionforSound Thank you!!!! Well you look so good in that shirt I think I may get one too!! All the best, my friend!!!

[@PassionforSound]

@chickenheads3746 happy holidays!

[@James-mb5jr]

It’ll be great if you would please compare the topping r2r dac with the dac portion of the hifiman serenade. Thanks

[@PassionforSound]

I don't have the Serenade anymore, but I think I'll be able to provide a good sense of how it performs by the end of the full review.

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

The BEST dac is the one that has the best synergy ' to your Taste ! Thanks for the video ! I Just uploaded video short where me and my dad listened to 3 different dacs Burson/Denefrips/Geshelli and i played my dads C.D. and my dad prefered Geshelli J2 with burson V7 opamps over the other 2 . System Synergy to my dads taste i prefered the Burson composer 4x V7 opamps' 😆

[@PassionforSound]

Yep. It's all personal in the end!

[@Bill.K]

The Centaurus is built around a fully balanced 8-channel R2R DAC architecture, created in partnership with HOLO Audio. This design uses eight resistor networks to process audio with incredible precision and dynamic range. Each network plays a role: the front side is optimized for DSD decoding with a technology called the "Vector Step Resistance Network," while the reverse side handles PCM decoding using a traditional R2R setup. A CPLD (Complex Programmable Logic Device) coordinates the entire process, ensuring every detail is decoded with jaw-dropping accuracy.

[@thehawk05]

It uses the DAC board from the Cyan 2

[@DieTabbi]

Ok but will you have no advantage when the rest of your setup is not balanced.

[@PassionforSound]

I'll test the balanced and unbalanced outputs for the review, but it's rarely a disadvantage to the unbalanced outputs to start with a balanced DAC design.

[@gerritfridericksohn4627]

Did you read what John Atkinson had to say about the Linear Tube Audio Aero? He felt the specs from the single ended to be disappointing. My word not his. ​@@PassionforSound

[@PassionforSound]

@gerritfridericksohn4627 I'm not really concerned with specs or measurements, just how a DAC sounds.

[@doifeellucky]

Good first impressions. But you didn’t mention associated equipment. How good do the headphones and amp need to be to hear the lushness, detail, layering and separation you mentioned? Some track examples in the reviews would be much appreciated. E.g. the trumpet solo on the R2R was coming from precisely 2 o’clock and felt about 6 feet away, but on the lesser DAC it was just somewhere from the right channel. Thanks.

[@PassionforSound]

This is a first impression video. That's all the type of thing that takes time to work through and will be in the final review.

[@Tkarma77]

I have only had a topping a90d.. its been great but a little souless..i would worry the same for their other products.. recently bought the chord qutest and anni im off my chair dancing with that combo

[@PassionforSound]

I completely agree about the A90D. That's why I said in this video that I'm not generally a Topping fan, but the D90 Discrete and the Centaurus suggest that Topping MIGHT be making some changes to their sound... or maybe these are just two outliers.

[@mechpade]

Do you have access to Gustard X30? Would love to hear your thoughts on it as I'm thinking of getting one to feed my KSE1500

[@PassionforSound]

I don't currently have a good contact to access Gustard products.

[@priedits]

Amazing! I would love to see similar first impression videos going forward! ❤

[@PassionforSound]

I'll see what I can fit into my schedule 🙂

[@shawnpwatsons1]

I'd like you to compare to your Schitt Bifrost 2/64 DAC.

[@PassionforSound]

That will definitely be happening 😁

[@_DeepGroove_]

Did Passion for sound just own the entire audiophile reviews on KZbin? My first impressions after watching 20 seconds of his latest video:

[@PassionforSound]

LOL. I see what you did there! 😁

[@chada8166]

Wondering how the Centaurus sounds compared to the Serenade

[@PassionforSound]

I won't be able to test that, but I will have other comparisons that should help provide some guidance.

[@gerritfridericksohn4627]

You gave a very positive review to the Sparkos Labs Gemini. It is only RCA. Do you test these DACs with the RCA connection? Is there a difference in sound quality between RCA and balanced? How would this be expected to compare with the R2R DAC section of something like Astell and kern Se300.

[@PassionforSound]

Generally speaking, the RCA outputs of DACs like these are just as good as the XLR outputs. I've got a video coming up on the topic. I haven't heard the A&K SE300s so I can't answer your other question.

[@davidrivera2165]

Seems like the Centaurus is the one to buy. I'll wait for the full review. I was considering the Discrete vs. New Gustard x26iii. Preferring the Gustard for the built in renderer, you just put me on hold. Thanks. It would be fantastic if you could get your hands on x26iii to review.

[@PassionforSound]

I'd love that too!

[@whocares0503]

No DAYZEE tossed in for comparison? HUM... You REALLY love that DAC!

[@PassionforSound]

This is a first impressions video, not a full review

[@whocares0503]

@@PassionforSound I was just teasing a little, I am aware this wasn't a full review. I apologize if my dry humor was missed! I just am in the market for an a new DAC to replace my roughly going on 7 year SMSL VMC D1... Dayzee, Pontus 15th, Cyan2, etc. LAIV is just too much $$$. Anyway patience is a virtue! :-) Again sorry if I wasn't clear enough!

[@PassionforSound]

Haha. I did miss that with text as the communication method. Thanks for clarifying! Yes, there are too many choices these days, but at least all of them seem generally good.

[@westernboy5886]

Hi. Does topping centaurus outperform gustard r26? Which R2R is better based on sound?

[@PassionforSound]

I don't have the R26 here anymore to compare, but I suspect they'd come pretty close to each other in performance.

[@richardhernandez6937]

Is the preamp section on the Centraurus a passive resister type or a real active gain type or are we talking about a lossy digital volume control?

[@PassionforSound]

I don't know as yet, but it might be explained on the website via the links in the description.

[@lohengrin8841]

Every month a new product stands out in the reviewers' comments. Here in Italy hi fi shops almost disappeared and we have to rely on reviews. I regret when there were many hi fi shops and we could go and listen to various gears. Why companies do not gather and show their products in some big shops to make evaluate customers which items better suite their taste? Maybe they prefer we continuosly buy and change our components untill we find the right ones or we get tired of searching?

[@PassionforSound]

Unfortunately, the challenge is that retail shops have to pay rent and sales staff. That means they have to charge more for the products. What was often happening was that people would audition at the shops and then go and buy via Amazon who can price everything much lower due to having no rent and sales staff to pay. (Obviously they have staff and rent for warehousing, etc. but it's scaled across all of their products so they have much lower costs per product sold)

[@mtnmankeith9069]

Can you adjust the peq on the Centaurus display? Also would this dac be over kill if I’m only using it single ended to my sparkos Gemini?

[@PassionforSound]

I don't believe you can adjust the PEQ on the display. I'm pretty sure you need to use the app, but that will all be in the review. As for using it with the Gemini, that's a lovely amp so the Centaurus could be a great match.

[@BillyKueekSG]

What speakers are those and how does it sound Lachlan? I’d really be interested with a video walk around of your room lol😂

[@carlosalvarez7445]

Most likely they are Adam Audio powered monitors, some of the best in their class.

[@BillyKueekSG]

@ I thought they look familiar. Am shopping for a pair of good bookshelves but taking my time cos unlike headphones, can’t have a few

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, they're the entry level ADAM Audio T7V. I've got each of their 7" models in for review: T, A and S series. Stay tuned!

[@BillyKueekSG]

@ thank you Lachlan!

[@chrishmeet]

The mustec 006 is an absolute gem.

[@NexusS4GIceJelly]

The ladder dac module is literally the same as the one from Cyan 2 but I think the power filtering on Cyan 2 should be better hence should sound slightly better than the Topping

[@PassionforSound]

It would be interesting to compare them directly, but I won't be able to do that...

[@Chris.from.1950]

A DAC stack? 🎉 Now that’s something new! ❤ Thanks for the teaser! I look forward to the Full Meal Deal when you’re ready, in the new year. Wait. New Year? Already?!? 😂😂😂 All the best! ❤️👍👍

[@PassionforSound]

Happy New Year, Chris!

[@middleearthltd]

I have had the Topping D90 1-Bit for a minute and it is excellent Really interested in the Topping Holo collaboration review Even more interested in the Topping D900 1-Bit which I expect will be the best value of all iiWi did a review of the D90 1-Bit and determined, for him, the Topping 1-Bit and the Cyan 2 were the best DACs under $2k USD Have had the Holo Cyan 2 and the D90 1-Bit they are different but comparable in sound quality The Topping is an excellent digital pre-amplifier in my opinion and well implemented Good times in the ever-changing DAC world Glad you will be reviewing them as I highly value your opinion

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the comment. How would you describe the differences between the D90D and the Cyan 2?

[@middleearthltd]

@ I can only describe it based on the systems I use Low watt SE tube amplifiers with tube preamplifiers and single driver full range speakers with subwoofers set around 80hz I got the Cyan 2 first and in the midst of a large dose of second order harmonic distortion it was pleasing especially in the mid and upper range. The Bass was good but in the range that humans derive the most pleasure it was both accurate and euphonic. The presentation was full and natural sounding. The 1-Bit is an older DAC implementation as is R2R but it is even more accurate and cohesive top to bottom So the bass, mids, and highs all get fully integrated in the best way possible and better than any DAC I have heard It is very accurate and cohesive with zero glare Nothing stands out which is nice In a solid state system I would prefer the Cyan 2 as I did try it with a Dayens power amplifier and that was a good pairing But with the tube pre and tube amplification and full range single driver speakers I prefer the 1-Bit as it is the best DAC I have put in that chain I use the single driver full range speakers for their lack of a crossover and high efficiency and if I get the non-directional frequencies blended in with the subwoofers the 1-Bit is seamless in the mix and is additive in a way that no other DAC has been able to accomplish

[@arnaudbaudon845]

Hi How Can you describe the listening between Holo cyan 2 and Topping D90 III Discret ??? Very thanks

[@PassionforSound]

@middleearthltd thanks for sharing!

[@OGGYDOGGY1]

I have the d90 iii discrete, I bought it because it's native dsd and dsd bypass because I use hqplayer . The combination is very good. better than 192/24 going in , smoother, and more depth and width. But it's not night and day. Wish hqplayer could play sacd iso direct. HIRES Pcm upsampled to 700+/32 sounds very close. Could be down to better mastering on more expensive sacd? I recommend this tester try it with hqplayer outputing 256bit in dsd direct mode with the latest firmware.

[@jhuneclarino]

R2R module of Holo Cyan 2 is exactly the same R2R module of Centaurus probably differs only on input and output stage

[@PassionforSound]

Correct (AFAIK) and power supply too.

[@landosazo7506]

Happy Holidays, stay warm....wait, it is summer there...just when I was going to pull the trigger on the Topping D90 Discrete as highly praised by Sandu of Soundnews and other audio reviewers, creeps into the spotlight the Topping Centaurus R2R priced similar to the T Discrete. The quest for a better sound and the end-game DAC is a never ending game. Like a brand new car, it is OLD the minute it leaves the sales car lot. Cheers !

[@PassionforSound]

So true! Happy holidays!

[@Reeeepicheep]

Would be cool to hear how it stacks up to Yggy OG. Is the Centaurus based at all on the Cyan 2? Is that a Gungnir 2 I see in the background?! 8:17

[@thehawk05]

The R2R board used in the Centaurus is from the Cyan 2

[@PassionforSound]

I have a Gumby 2 inbound, but it's not here yet. There's still a lot for the Centaurus to prove to me before I get properly excited, but it's made a good start.

[@Vantavimeow]

Any news on the Schiit Gungnir 2? I've only seen one person talk about it on youtube so far

[@jhuneclarino]

Fuck schiit its a shit😅😅😅

[@PassionforSound]

It's on its way here, but not arrived yet...

[@shadowofpain8144]

I sold my d90se and bought hifi rose. But wish I had kept it. But budget won out. I truly don't think any of it is worth more than 100.00. My 2 cents.

[@peterpipe9015]

I am happy the chinese hifi manufactureres are starting to tackle r2r

[@HaakonOdinsson]

I only have a smsl su1. Couldn’t afford these expensive ones

[@PassionforSound]

There's great sound to be had at every price level these days. It's no longer poor vs good. These days it's good and better.

[@HaakonOdinsson]

@ yes agree, I’d love to have a real good one, but finances dictate. You’re right though, great sound at every price level. I was thinking of getting the Cambridge audio AXA35 amp, AXA25 cd to go with the wharfs diamond 9’s and denon deck. A nice little set up I’ll be well happy with…until I win the lottery 😂

[@patlezinc]

Yesterday you told me that you did not know the Holo Cyan 2. Well, now you have maybe a taste of it with the centaurus 😋

[@PassionforSound]

Very true!

[@phetmoz]

Yeha the Optical input being used for initial impressions kinda made the video a moot point. There are no serious audophiles using optical for serious, dedicated listening. Looking forward to hear your thoughts on D90 Discrete vs Centaurus using I2S/Coax/USB.

[@PassionforSound]

A quality optical source can outperform many others if the source device has a good clock (which the Singxer SU-6 does). Optical also isolates noise because there's no electrical connection.

[@jhuneclarino]

As i check their website this is collaboration between topping and holo audio i guess the sound of this dac is comparable to holo audio dac please enlighten us on the sound compare to halo

[@PassionforSound]

I won't be able to compare with the Holo DACs, but will have plenty of other comparisons to help...

[@stevetech5150]

$1k - $1.5k budget. Topping D90 Discreet or Denafrips Ares? Comments below please. Thanks!

[@User_not_found_403]

Are you burning in the DACs since they are so new? I'm leaning towards centaurus but heard discrete opens up with burn in.

[@PassionforSound]

I use all products for weeks before reviewing so I can properly get to know them (or as much as possible, anyway)

[@wkov-hc7pr]

There's no need to be sorry about family invasion. It's your life, family is important, and there's nothing annoying in that.

[@PassionforSound]

Haha! Very true. Not sure it would have made good viewing though. 😉😁

[@RosemarySoriano-n6v]

Cool!😊

[@kaifa76]

Holo being involved in the Centaurus is a big turn on

[@Alex55555]

In terms of dac chipsets or board, sure...

[@PassionforSound]

If the Centaurus proves to be as good as it seems, it's going to shake up the price to performance expectations in the industry. Of course, it has to prove itself in thorough comparisons yet...

[@exdafrianz3939]

Centaurus VS R26 ?

[@PassionforSound]

That would be interesting, but I don't have an R26 anymore.

[@cobrabucket]

SUPER lame that Topping jacked up the price of the Centaurus from $799 to $999 the day after launch!!!!

[@HerbertShooler]

The topping R2R dac is the best engineered R2R to date ,cheers for the review.Lachlan you are sonic god amongst men.

[@PassionforSound]

It certainly sounds the goods. I can't say how it compares on the inside and I'm yet to do thorough comparisons, but consider me impressed so far...

[@larsv6144]

Centaurus VS Hifiman Serenade ?

[@PassionforSound]

I don't have the Serenade anymore, but they're also very different devices with the Serenade including an amp AND limited streaming capabilities.

[@douede]

Merci !

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks so much and you're welcome!

[@corrrect]

Hype train inbound.

[@_DeepGroove_]

Choo choo! In a next review: this new DAC does much better than the Centaurus, which lacked X Y Z (replace with not-so-great areas never mentioned before)

[@corrrect]

@_DeepGroove_ hype train victim : i thought you said the Centaurus performed at the same level of a $3k dac????!!!!

[@_DeepGroove_]

Reviewer: Yes, but I forgot to mention that that $3k DAC performed like a $10k DAC!

[@corrrect]

@_DeepGroove_ hype train victim : Oh, ok.... i didn't think of that. makes sense.

[@PassionforSound]

I do believe this could be a hype train candidate, but let's see...

[@RocketLauncherwithInfiniteAmmo]

Haha family invasion!

[@PassionforSound]

😁

[@cpg8000]

I find Topping to sound a bit thin and flat historically.

[@PassionforSound]

Generally, I'd agree. Not with either of these though...

[@cpg8000]

@ that is good to hear. I hope we are entering an age of hifi where the technology is now allowing us to marry resolution and transparency with the features of auditory perception that we experience as “musical”. That would be welcome progress.

[@PassionforSound]

@cpg8000 I agree and have some interesting info coming up in a video soon about that exact topic.

[@jungtarcph]

Is it only me, or are DACs so popular to review because 1) affiliate commission and B) they are light and easy to ship..... it is a bit sad because their importance is so little in the audio chain, that many people fail blind tests

[@mikeg2491]

Devil’s advocate, how many people would fail a “is this a DVD or a Blu-ray” test?

[@OGNewb]

An old saying says crap in crap out. Maybe you underestimating what a DAC actually does?

[@mikeg2491]

@ my friend’s dad has a projector and a 120” screen and says he can’t tell the difference lol I think if you did a survey among normies you might find a shocking number who would say the same, or at best they think the BD is “a little” sharper but not worth the money to them. I guess my point is blind studies have their uses but it’s not a given that majority consensus means there is no differences.

[@vaneast411]

dacs are interesting to say the least as digital audio is the most complex aspect regarding truly good sound - the systems sound is only going to be as good as the weakest link - many different strategies are implemented in dacs and we are still in the early days of solving the problems related the issues surrounding digital implementation

[@Jingyih]

Totally agree. Transducers have the most significant impact by far. Amplifiers can make a difference, but it’s much smaller. DACs make minimal difference which are mostly only noticable during direct A/B comparison.

[@BroSweets730]

YOOOOO. MY GUY YOU FINALLY TOOK MY WORD AND GOT SOME T5vs!! What do you think!? I’m curious 👀

[@thorbampougias311]

I dont like R 2R Dacs

[@PassionforSound]

Fair enough